Seeking Feedback: Amazon Australia 3rd Party Sellers (aka Spamazon)

neil on 26/10/2018 - 16:20
Last edited 10/09/2020 - 12:25 by 2 other users

We are seeking feedback on what actions, if any, to take on Amazon Australia 3rd party sellers. Long read ahead.

Current Guidelines

The seller must have a minimum of 90% feedback, based on at least 10 ratings (exceptions below).
In the absence of sufficient feedback, an exception will be made if the seller has a website (e.g. Kitchen Warehouse on Amazon, Kitchenwarehouse.com.au)
An exception will also be made for items that are fulfilled by Amazon, however this particular exception does not apply to associated users/representative posts.
Overseas users will not be able to post Amazon Australia deals. However overseas representatives can contact us with their store name to apply for an exception.
Overseas sellers/stores require at least 90% feedback with 10 ratings to be approved (Note: Mods manually approve overseas reps to post, they are banned by default, Australian reps don't require approval).
The listing must have a quantity of at least 10 available.

Amazon Stores are treated like any other stores and fall under posting limits.

Posting Limits

Maximum 1 deal per 24 hours

Maximum 2 deals per 7 days is the default, however…

If the vote average across the recent rep deals is 0 or below, the domain is temporarily banned until the vote average is corrected over time.

If the vote average across the recent rep deals is between 0 and 3, the domain is temporarily banned for 2 weeks from the last post.

If the vote average across the recent rep deals is between 3 and 8, it is reduced to maximum 1 deal per week.

If the two most recent rep deals made the front page, the limit is increased to 3 deals per week.

If the three most recent rep deals get double the front page minimum votes or more (currently 50 votes), the limit is increased to 4 deals per week.

They also fall under posting bans.

Posting Bans

A store will be banned if deals posted by representatives continually attract a low amount of votes. The system will ban a store if:

The 2 latest rep posts are 30 days or less apart, and

The vote average for the store's rep posts over the last 90 days is less than or equal to 1

Note: the latest post will be allowed 24 hours to collect votes before vote averages are calculated.

The store is temporarily banned from rep posts for 30 days from the time of the latest rep deal if the above conditions are met. Note that if a store has been banned twice, the third performance based ban is 1 year.

Current Situation

All rep posted deals for all sites vs. rep posted deals for Amazon.

YEAR	MONTH	All Deals	Votes	Amz Deals	Votes
2018	1	25	36.8	0	0.0
2018	2	62	55.1	3	3.3
2018	3	85	47.1	1	4.0
2018	4	98	44.4	8	23.1
2018	5	90	34.4	11	2.0
2018	6	199	47.2	15	15.2
2018	7	214	44.5	25	19.8
2018	8	222	31.4	62	12.0
2018	9	300	23.0	168	6.4
2018	10	201	30.8	76	8.5

Amazon 3rd Party Rep posted deals perform way worse than avg. rep posted deals.
More significant is that Amazon 3rd party deals were 56% of all rep posted deals in September.
We usually have about 3000 deals (rep & normal users) posted a month so rep deals are usually less than 10%.

As of now, we have stopped approving new overseas Amazon sellers.

Last 10 Amazon Rep Deals (from 24/10 backwards for constancy):

Possible Solutions & Our Feedback

Increase feedback requirement (e.g. from 10 feedback to 30). [Don't think this will affect deal quality]
Ban overseas reps. [This was our previous stance (made this thread) and lead to more sockpuppets, companies paid posters, users using VPN]
Before approving seller, ask for example deal. [We aren't experts at everything + quite time consuming, and only covers their first post]

Big picture is we want good deals to be posted as well as users being transparent with their associations. Let me know your suggestions via comments.

— I'll add your suggestions below with feedback —

No associated and only permit Amazon deals from non L & P platers (have posted other deals * at least 6 weeks from post). [Downside is we lose good associated deals, also punishes new users who find a good Amazon deal). e.g. L Plater: [Pre-Order] Bad Boys 4K UHD + Blu Ray $19.84 + Delivery (Free with Prime/ $49 Spend) @ Amazon AU +16 votes
Make associated users visit site 50 times or spend 20 hours on site before being able to post. [Would help user understand OzBargain better but not always easy to identify Amazon poster + knowing site doesn't mean knowing a good deal]
Add a queue for mods or Power Users to approve posts. [Eliminates bad deals and bad titles/missing prices etc. Added workload on mods/pus, on weekends could see big delay. Requires a bit of development. PUs/Mods not experts on determining a deal]
Delete deal and permanently ban store if no votes within 10 minutes. [Will remove bad deals but may also remove good deals depending on time, day, poor title]

Update

OK, some good discussion points and after a bit of deliberation we will be implementing the following:

Continue moratorium on approving overseas Amazon 3rd party rep accounts.
Continue block on posts from overseas posters for Amazon deals.
Remove access to posting on already approved Amazon 3rd party rep accounts for very poorly performing stores.
Continue automated performance based posting bans for Amazon 3rd party stores (just like all other stores).
Reopen the Amazon Australia: Overseas Sellers/Reps Post Your Deals Here Thread

We will come back in a month or so to check stats and see if we need to go further and:

Ban L/P platers from posting Amazon 3rd party seller deals.

Ideas that are being considered but required a big technical implementation:

Moderation queue for Amazon deals where they would need approval by mods/power users to approve.

Other suggestions:

We will have a think about the best practices to display Amazon shipping/Prime/etc in the title.

Site Discussion

Related Stores

Amazon AU

Marketplace

Comments

- payton on 13/08/2020 - 13:20
  
  +1
  
  IMO at the moment we're getting too much monthly spam from Amazon 3rd party store reps, the usual crap like :
  
  posture corrector,
  
  oil diffuser
  
  nappy bags,
  
  bostanten belts
  
  As Spackbace and others can attest, these dudes will try anything to spam/advertise as frequently as possible.
  
  All stores in related to post limits are treated universally. e.g. same limits for Amazon, eBay, Australian stores, etc.
  
  neil,
  perhaps the rules for 3rd party amazon reps should be more rigorous, given the amount of spam coming from them are higher (compared to other stores).
  The situation now is similar to before when Amazon ebook spam posted by reps (usually international reps/accounts) were just everywhere.
  - kahn on 13/08/2020 - 13:38
    
    I notice that you have a soft spot for massagers.
    - payton on 13/08/2020 - 15:56
      
      O thanks, i was just able to suppress it out of my working memory, now its back
  - spackbace on 13/08/2020 - 17:43
    
    +2
    
    I've already made the suggestion to fix up the performance-based ban requirements. A +1 vote average is easy if the same handful of members upvote every single deal.
    - WoodYouLikeSomeCash on 13/08/2020 - 17:55
      
      Maybe the solution is to limit the amount of upvotes for each user, similar to the downvote system on comments?
      - spackbace on 13/08/2020 - 18:24
        
        +2
        
        @WoodYouLikeSomeCash: I mean, I'll call out one user in particular.
        
        I count 21 pos votes just yesterday alone… In some cases you'll see they're the only vote a deal actually gets!
        
        And another serial offender who looks to average 10+ votes per day.
        
        Between the 2, there's 2 votes for deals that may not deserve them. But unless people neg vote to counteract it, the store reps are allowed to keep posting
        
        ocoolio on 14/08/2020 - 09:27
        
        @spackbace:
        
        But unless people neg vote to counteract it, the store reps are allowed to keep posting
        
        People rarely neg a deal, but you are correct, some people upvote deals no matter what. They are playing candy crush with the vote buttons.
        
        That is why I started the poll to see who would agree with more stringent rules, but the mod single-handedly decided that it needs to be buried in a thread from 2018 and we must not make a poll.
      - Moderatorneil on 17/08/2020 - 14:48
        
        @WoodYouLikeSomeCash:
        
        Maybe the solution is to limit the amount of upvotes for each user, similar to the downvote system on comments?
        
        We want people to vote up any posts that they think are good bargain in a frictionless manner.
        
        @spackbace
        
        I count 21 pos votes just yesterday alone… In some cases you'll see they're the only vote a deal actually gets!
        Between the 2, there's 2 votes for deals that may not deserve them. But unless people neg vote to counteract it, the store reps are allowed to keep posting
        
        But I guess one could ask who are you, or I or anyone else in this community to judge on what people decide is a good deal?
        
        payton on 17/08/2020 - 14:56
        
        +1
        
        @neil: Its just a bit sad that ozB's spam prevention system can be easily circumvented, and all it takes to defeat the system is very small group of users putting + votes on said garbage deals. 'Outsmarted by spammers' achievement badge unlocked.
        
        Moderatorneil on 19/08/2020 - 12:33
        
        @payton: If users are maliciously voting to circumvent the system then that's one thing. If users are voting for deals because they believe it's a good deal then that's acceptable. As they say one mans garbage is another mans treasure.
        
        payton on 24/08/2020 - 15:59
        
        @neil: as Spackbace wrote, I think its a matter of just getting on with the changing trends.
        As the number of outliers grew (people that +vote anything and everything), the threshold of 'good quality' deal needs to rise as well, from +1 to say +5.
        Their rights to pos vote freely are not impacted, and ozbargain becomes much less cluttered with doubtful deals.
        
        As you know there is always going to be people that are contrarians, like those folks putting dislikes on the most benign and useful y/tube videos
        
        WoodYouLikeSomeCash on 17/08/2020 - 15:01
        
        @neil: I see, I guess some people have a wider view as to what a “good deal” is.
        
        spackbace on 17/08/2020 - 23:45
        
        +1
        
        @neil: But do they really think it's a good deal, or are they pity votes, or what? It's telling when a deal gets a few negs and 1 of these members up votes it.
        
        Your filters would ban more stores if the vote count average was set to +3, and let's face it that's a pretty arbitrary number. 5 would be better and a more rounded number, however I'm happy to suggest baby steps 😛
- plague69 on 13/08/2020 - 13:26
  
  "(allow them to advertise on OZB)" is quite loaded language for a fair poll.
  
  I know you feel strongly about this issue, but perhaps rethink the wording. It's certainly not your way or the highway. There could be other solutions.
  
  A better poll would perhaps be: "Who thinks this is a problem?" or "Do you believe this is effecting your experience of OZB?"
  - ocoolio on 13/08/2020 - 14:07
    
    There could be other solutions.
    
    Go on
Moderatorneil on 14/08/2020 - 16:14

Give me some time to run some numbers. We'd rather tackle issues backed with statistics and metrics especially when the consequences can be quite substantial.
- spackbace on 19/08/2020 - 15:50
  
  +1
  
  Cmon neil, where's the stats and graphs? ;)

Moderatorneil on 20/08/2020 - 15:51

So first thing to look is if Amazon rep posted deals are doing better/worse than before.

Year	Month	Amazon Avg Vote	Amazon Count	eBay Avg. Vote	eBay Count	All Stores Avg Vote	All Stores Count
2018	2	3.5	2	13.075	40	10.8733	442
2018	3	4	1	21.8696	46	11.8692	497
2018	4	23.125	8	15.6154	26	10.4978	462
2018	5	2	11	12.7273	22	14.9342	532
2018	6	15.125	16	16.14	50	10.4435	566
2018	7	19.8	25	13.1538	39	15.7712	507
2018	8	11.9841	63	17.5667	30	15.8097	599
2018	9	6.3631	168	12.7255	51	10.1581	677
2018	10	9.4803	127	25.3191	47	16.4037	654
2018	11	12.9483	116	11	52	14.0114	969
2018	12	13.8661	112	15.4186	43	11.4604	695
2019	1	11.1869	107	13.9286	28	14.4691	599
2019	2	14.2135	89	23.3333	45	14.7311	595
2019	3	12.2797	118	14.6875	48	12.7316	678
2019	4	15.0738	122	7.6765	34	15.6968	663
2019	5	12.4184	141	25.3137	51	14.5827	774
2019	6	7.8915	129	25.1538	52	13.1632	772
2019	7	8.7365	148	10.4103	39	10.4427	707
2019	8	10.2743	113	15.3889	54	12.3701	689
2019	9	9.1786	112	17.0444	45	12.6083	651
2019	10	11.2969	128	19.8596	57	16.6818	748
2019	11	13.598	204	14.7176	85	13.8052	1119
2019	12	11.4	165	17.3864	44	13.1039	789
2020	1	10.8942	104	16.5	28	14.5228	593
2020	2	11.0714	98	24.0789	38	13.9929	565
2020	3	9.5238	105	12.5882	34	15.622	656
2020	4	9.4167	108	30.125	32	16.7354	616
2020	5	10.9906	106	14.4074	27	13.7657	636
2020	6	9.9016	122	23.7297	37	17.3943	705
2020	7	9.6755	151	19	27	19.5877	764

Amazon rep deals tend to average around 10 votes.
eBay rep deals tend to average around 20 votes.
All rep posted stores sitewide averaged around 16 votes.
Amazon store rep deal represent 151 out of 3687 total deals or 4% of all deals posted in July.
53 Amazon rep posted deals scored 3 or lower votes or 1.4% of all deals posted in July.
13 Amazon rep posted deals scored 0 or lower votes or .3% of all deals posted in July.

I think we can safely conclude from the numbers that Amazon rep posted deals are on average performing poorly in comparison.

Let's do a deep dive on July's deals.

Deal	Votes	Voters (<4)	Store Vote Avg. (Last Post -30 days)
Romoss Type-C USB PD & QC 3.0 18W 30000mAh Power Bank $35.20 AU & More + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Romoss Amazon AU	90		50
72% off VIPEX Women's Ultra Soft Thermal Underwear Long Johns Base Layer Set $9.90 + Post ($0 Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Avy-AU Amazon	84		84
TaoTronics BH085 Active Noise Cancelling Headhones $69.99, BH077 TWS Earbuds $39.99, EP008 ANC Wired Earphones $29.99 @ Amazon	67		45
40% off 110 in 1 Screwdriver Set $19.19 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Ottertooth Direct via Amazon AU	47		25
50% off tomtoc 13" / 15" for MacBook Air / MacBook Pro $15.99-$16.59 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Tomtoc Amazon AU	46		24.5
Reolink Argus Eco with Solar Panel \| Rechargeable Battery Security Camera A$95.99 Delivered (Was A$127.99) @ ReolinkAU	33		14.8
TaoTronics BH090 Hybrid Noise Cancelling Headphones $79.99 BH079 True Wireless Earbuds $45.59 EP02 ANC Earphones $39.99 @ Amazon	31		40.33333333
[Refurb] HP EliteDesk 800 G1 USDT i5 8GB RAM 128GB SSD Win 10 Pro $199 Delivered @ Australian Computer Traders via Amazon/ eBay	30		30
HEYMIX 7IN1 USB C Hub, HDMI Port, PD Charging, USB3.0*3, SD/TF Card $29.99 + Shipping ($0 /w Prime) @ Au Select Amazon AU	25		13.5
AUSELECT High Lumen LED Torch T6 Ultra Bright 1pc $7.99 & 2pcs $12.99 + Shipping ($0 /w Prime) @ Au Select Amazon AU	22		13.2
Digital Instant Read Meat Thermometer $14.99 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Swanze via Amazon AU	22		19
10 Pieces TERSELY 100ML Spray Bottles $11.16 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Statco via Amazon	22		9
RENPHO Bluetooth Bathroom Body Fat Scale with Smartphone App $25.99 (Save $10) + Delivery ($0 with Prime/$39+) @ AC Green Amazon	19		13.75
USB 3.1 Type-C (Thunderbolt 3 Compatible) to HDMI Convertor 4K@60hz $14.75 (Was $22.69) + Post ($0 Prime) @ CableCreation Amazon	18		18
Heymix Triple Display USB C HUB, MST HDMI x2, PD, 3x USB 3.0, SD/TF $39.99 Delivered @ Au Select Amazon AU	17		14.33333333
28W USB Charger and Cable $14.99 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ HMNXG via Amazon AU	17		17
GL.inet GL-AR750S-EXT (Slate) Micro/Travel Router $83.71 Delivered @ Amazon AU	17		20
60% off Dudios TWS Earbuds $19.99 Delivered @ Dudios Amazon AU	16		7.5
twohundredº Cold Brew Coffee Maker $49.99 Delivered (Was $129) @ twohundredº Amazon AU	16		16
HEYMIX 8IN1 USB C Hub, HDMI, PD, USB 3.03, SD/TF, RJ45, usb 2 C cable3 = $36.99 /Shipping ($0 /w Prime) @ Au Select Amazon AU	16		13.66666667
2pack 5A USB Type-C to USB-A 2.0 Male Charger Cable 5 Feet $9.99 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Swanze Amazon	16		9
William Klein 50 Pieces Face Mask 3 Ply $24.61 Delivered @ William Klein via Amazon AU	15		15
Men's Leather Ratchet Belt Automatic Buckle $14.99 (Was $22.99) + Post ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Swanze via Amazon Au	15		12.8
4 Port USB Hub 3.0 with Power Adapter $25.99 + Shipping ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ TendakDirect Amazon AU	15		14.5
Wild Yak Pacific Ale $45 \| Victoria Bitter 30P $52.95 Delivered @ CUB Amazon AU	15		9.75
$33.95 Xiaomi Yeelight 2-in-1 Bedside Night Lamp with 10W Qi Wireless Charger + Post (Free $39+/Prime) @ MMel Amazon AU	14		14
Tendak Portable Foldable Laptop Stand Holder (Sliver) $22.99 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39+) @ TendakDirect Amazon AU	14		14
RENPHO Rechargeable Cordless Hand Held Massager for Relaxation $35.19 Shipped ($11.80 off) @ AC GREEN Amazon AU	14		10.75
AUSELECT Digital Thermometer Black or Red $13.49 for Food Cooking BBQ Meat + Shipping ($0 /w Prime) @ Au Select Amazon AU	13		13.2
Sportneer Bike Trainer Stand $118.99 Delivered (Was $139.99) @ Sportneer via Amazon AU	13		13
Inkbird Bluetooth Waterproof Meat Thermometer with 4 Probes IBT-4XC $63.47 Delivered (31% off) @ Inkbird Amazon AU	13		7.6
Up to 20% off SoundPEATS Truefree True Wireless Earbuds Starting from $25.59 + Post (Free $39+/Prime) @ SoundPEATS AMR	13		10.66666667
Jollyfit Massage Gun with 6 Massage Attachments $83.99 Delivered ($2 off) @ Jollyfit Amazon AU	12		3.5
Ohuhu Guitar Wall Hook Hanger 2-Pack $14.44 (Was $16.99) + Delivery ($0 w/ Prime $39 Spend) @ Ohuhu Amazon AU	12		12
Up to 40% off Muson Move True Wireless Earbuds Starting from $23.99 + Post (Free $39+/Prime) @ SoundPEATS AMR	12		11.5
Tersely 4-Port USB 3.0 Hub $11.96 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Statco via Amazon	12		8.2
Nillkin Rubber Wrapped & Nature Cases for iPhone 11 / 11 Pro / 11 Pro Max $9.99 ($0 Delivery with Prime) @ Ezygadgetz via Amazon	11		8
HP Z5000 Wireless Mouse $29.95 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Ezi Office Amazon AU	11		11
Mango - GL.inet GL-MT300N-V2 Mini Travel Router $29.21 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) via GL.iNet Amazon AU	11		11
2m Vinbolt Thunderbolt 3 Cable, 100W,4K Video Output,up to 40GBps, $29.99 x1 or $27.99 x2 + Delivery($0 w/ Prime/ $39 Spend)	10		10
Proxima Direct HDMI Cable 4K 5M $16.11 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Profits via Amazon AU	10		5.2
500ml Intelligent Temperature Display Vacuum Thermoses $14.99 (Was $19.99) + Post ($0 with Prime / $39 Spend) @ Swanze Amazon	10		12.5
25% off Tryone 95cm Gooseneck Tablet Stand $22.99 (Was $30.99) + Delivery ($0 with Prime / $39 Spend) @ Tryone.au Amazon	10		6
Gravity Blanket for Adults Kids 20% off Weighted Blankets Price (from $55) Delivered @ AhaTechAus Amazon AU	10		9
Boltune Bluetooth Earbuds $37.49, Bluetooth Active Noise Cancelling Headphones $59.99 Delivered @ Avy-AU Amazon	10		47
Inkbird Bluetooth BBQ Meat Thermometer with 6 Probes IBT-6XS $68.99 Delivered @ Inkbird Amazon AU	10		6.25
Universal Travel Adapter Type C QC3.0 PD $17.50 (Was $24.99) + Delivery ($0 Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Smile&Satisfaction Amazon AU	9		7.5
VIKTOR JURGEN Shiatsu Back and Shoulder Massager with Heat $47.20 Delivered (Was $59) @ VIKTOR JURGEN via Amazon AU	9		9
40% off Samsung Galaxy A70 Phone Case Protective Cover $4.79 (Was $7.99) + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Seyarlh Amazon	9		9
Reayou Webcam Cover $7.64 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Sparks Au via Amazon	9		2
Neewer NW565EX E-TTL Slave Flash Speedlite with Flash Diffuser for Canon - $52.49 Delivered @ Peak Catch Amazon AU	9		7
U-Hub USB C Hub 6 in 1 $27.74 (Was $36.99), 9 in 1 $42.74 (Was $56.99) Delivered @ U-ROK Amazon AU	9		9
LED Strip Lights Sync to Music 10% off $43.19 Delivered (Was $47.99) @ ThousandShores Amazon AU	9		6.25
30% off Anker Soundcore Wireless Earbuds $62.99 Delivered (Was $86.99) @ AnkerDirect via Amazon AU	9		9
RENPHO Rechargeable Black Cordless Handheld Massager for Relief Muscle Pain $37.29 Delivered ($11.80 off) @ AC Green Amazon AU	9		14.75
2 Pack-USB 3 in 1 Phone Charging Cable Nylon Braided 1.2m $16.14(15% off) + Delivery ($0 with Prime/$39 Spend) @ Luoke Amazon AU	9		4.666666667
Neewer NW-800 Professional Studio Broadcasting Recording Condenser Microphone - $36.79 Delivered @ Peak Catch Amazon AU	9		5
JESLED 5m Wi-Fi Strip Light for Bedroom $31.49 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ JESLED AU via Amazon	8		8
TESSAN Travel Adapter Universal to Australia (3 Pack) $9.59 (20% off) + Post (Free with Prime/$49+) @ TESSAN DIRECT-AU	8		8
Ecowitt HP2553 Wi-Fi Weather Station $370.59 Delivered @ Ecowitt via Amazon AU	8		8
TERSELY 4Kx2K Mini DisplayPort DP to HDMI Cable $11.16 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Statco via Amazon	8		9.6
[Switch] 20% off Tomtoc Slim Case for Nintendo Switch Lite $20.79 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Tomtoc Amazon AU	8		27
Ecowitt WH2910C Wi-Fi Weather Station $152.99 Delivered @ Ecowitt via Amazon AU	8		8
ASAKUKI 3D Essential Oil Diffuser 200ml Aromatherapy Diffuser $34.99 Delivered (30% off) @ ASAKUKI-AU via Amazon AU	8		7
Proxima Direct 8K HDMI 2M Cable $19.54 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Profits via Amazon AU	8		5.25
Solar Panel Charger $33.59 (Was $47.99) Delivered @ ThousandShores Amazon AU	8		5
15% off Naturehike Upgraded Cloud up 2 Person Backpacking Tent $119-$177.65 Delivered + More @ Naturehike Official Amazon AU	7		7
Sportneer Adjustable Ankle Weights $32.29 + Delivery (Free With Prime / $39 Spend) @ Sportneer Amazon	7		8.5
2 Pack-Type C Charging Cable Nylon Braided 1m (3.3ft) $6.92 (23% off) + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ LUOKE Amazon AU	7		5.25
22% off Tryone 95cm Gooseneck Tablet Stand $23.99 (Was $30.99) + Delivery ($0 with Prime / $39 Spend) @ Tryone.au Amazon	7		8.5
15% off EZVIZ C6N 360° Wi-Fi Smart IP Security Camera $50.15 Delivered @ Ezvizlife Amazon AU	7		7
50% off Yeelight Smart LED RGB Bulb E27 $27.97 Delivered (was $55.95) @ Vertex Living via Amazon Au	7		7
GHB Baby Monitor 2 Inch LCD Display with AU Plug $48.99 (Was $69.99) Delivered @ Smile&Satisfaction Amazon AU	6		6
USB C to HDMI Cable 4K 6 FT for MacBook Pro,iPad Pro,Yoga 920,S9 - $13.01 (Was $18.59) + Post ($0 Prime) @ CableCreation Amazon	6		12
30% off Pet Hair Remover Roller for Furniture $10.91 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ BOEHNER-AU via Amazon	6		6
Mountain Air Reiga 52" DC Motor Ceiling Fan with LED Light Kit Remote Control $188.99 Delivered @ Reiga Fan Amazon AU	6		6
Dudios Zeus TWS Earbuds $21.49 Delivered (50% off) @ Dudios AMR Amazon	6		4.666666667
ORICO 2.5 Inch SATA Hard Drive Adapter $15.99 (20% off) + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39+) @ ORICO AU Direct Store via Amazon AU	6		6
26% off WAVLINK AC1200 Wi-Fi Range Extender $58.99 (Was $79.99) Delivered @ Wavlink-RC Amazon	5		5
Soft Sided Collapsible Cooler Bag 40-Can / Large Reusable Grocery Bag $31.99 (20% off) Delivered @ Haptim Amazon AU	5		3.75
15% off EZVIZ C1C 1080P Indoor Mini Security Camera $58.65 Delivered @ Ezvizlife Amazon AU	5		6
Glinet GL-AR750 $53.54 Delivered (15% off) @ GL.iNet via Amazon AU	5		11
1 Pack 10W Wireless Charging Pad $15.59 (Save $2) + Delivery ($0 with Prime/$39 Spend) @ Fasgear Amazon AU	5		5
20% off: Hap Tim Nappy Bag Travel Baby Backpack (Large Capacity) $41.60 Delivered @ Haptim Amazon AU	5		4
50% off Dudios Freemini $19.99 Delivered @ Dudios AMR Amazon	5		3.5
15% off Ohuhu 120 Colours Alcohol Brush Markers $127.49 (Was $149.99) Delivered @ Ohuhu AU Amazon AU	4		8
Reayou 3m/10ft Premium 8K HDMI Cable $23.76 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Sparks Au via Amazon	4		4
AC1200 Wi-Fi Extender $57.99 (Save $10) / Thunderbolt 3 Adapter $39.99 (Save $8) Delivered @ Wavlink Amazon AU	4		3.5
Alternative Comforter, Duvet Insert, 300 Thread Count, Cotton Shell $58.90 Delivered (31% off) @ Puredown via Amazon AU	3	judgeg, tomatosauce, xoom	1
FITINDEX Bodyweight Resistance Trainer Kit $69.99 Shipped ($30 off) @ AC GREEN Amazon AU	3	edBARGAIN, OzBargaïn, maxandmiller	8.6
Ubibot WS1 Wi-Fi Temperature Sensor $127.20 Delivered @ Cloud Force Tech Amazon AU	3	OzBargaïn, eug, Mattske	3
TERSELY Portable Rechargeable Juice Blender 480ml / 16.8oz $47.96 Delivered @ Statco via Amazon	3	rajkmv, tomatosauce, OzBargaïn	8.2
20% off 12pcs Silicone Stretch Lids Transparent $12.70 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Simonpen Amazon	3	antman, carbeeye, tomatosauce	2.5
Proxima Direct 8k HDMI Cable 3M $23.79 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Profits via Amazon AU	3	bp1984, based, systmworks	4
Neewer NW760 Remote TTL Flash Speedlite with LCD Display for Nikon - $52.79 Delivered @ Peak Catch Amazon AU	3	ymmf, Ronney, mentos	6
$50 off FIMI Palm 3 Axis Gimbal Stabilizer $259 Delivered (Was $319) @ Emgreat via Amazon AU	3	OzSikh, Clear, OzBargaïn	2.333333333
40% off Mini Bluetooth Speaker $21.59 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Ottertooth Direct via Amazon	3	buddy389, tomatosauce, blackfrancis75	3
Key Finder 15% off $32.29 (Was $37.99) + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ ThousandShores Amazon AU	3	OzBargaïn, Tool, aj-007, AustraliaObscura	5.333333333
Lightning Deal: 35% off Dudios Zeus Air Earbuds $21.99 + Post (Free $39+/Prime) @ Dudios AMR Amazon	3	MeerkatWongy, kumquat, OzBargaïn	3.333333333
15% off LED Eye-Caring Desk Lamp $33.99 (Was $39.99) + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ BLITZU-AU via Amazon AU	3	tomatosauce, Talibanana, haisergeant	3
Aroma Diffuser and 6 Bottles of Essential Oils $49.73 Delivered (Was $62.95) @ DESERT LOTUS via Amazon Au	3	Big Deal, rcrowl, s3n	3.5
35% off Apsung RC Car $31.19 Delivered @ Apsung-Au via Amazon AU	3	CoreJava, tomatosauce, ash2000	3
$12 off Godox SL-60W Bowens Mount Led Continuous Video Light: $197 (Was $209) Delivered @ Emgreat Amazon-AU	3	im, AustraliaObscura, 777	3.666666667
HEYMIX True Wireless Earbuds Bluetooth $39.99 Delivered @ AU Select via Amazon AU	3	shiny1, tomatosauce, ashdays	7.5
Fasgear Wired Earphones $11.19 (20% off) + Delivery ($0 with Prime/$39 Spend) @ Fasgear Amazon AU	2	Lexan, futaris	3.5
40% off EUCLOVE Organic Hand Sanitizer 1L+50ml Set - $29.99 Delivered @ PrimeMain via Amazon AU	2	tomatosauce, Gaoras	2
Universal Travel Adapter with 4 USB Port (High-Speed 5 Amps) + Case $19.99 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/$39+) @ Travelpal Amazon AU	2	Miyagi, pogichinoy, steveo4u	2
Bluetooth 5.0 True Wireless Bluetooth Earbuds 25% off: $37.49 Delivered (Was $49.99) @ WetekCity Direct Amazon	2	tomatosauce, El Psy Kongroo	2
3-in-1 Outdoor Solar Garden Lights $40.95 Delivered (Was $54.60) @ Findyouled Amazon AU	2	DannyBoy, tomatosauce	2
Qarbo Premium Sparkling Water Maker and Fruit Infuser $134.25 Delivered (Was $179) @ Twenty39 Amazon AU	2	choonga, mskeggs, holdenmg	2
Wavlink 4 Ports USB 3.0 Hub $19.99 (Save 10% )/ 3 USB 3.0 Hub $24.99 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39+) @ Wavlink Amazon	2	tomatosauce, Boss96	5.666666667
Reayou Aluminum Laptop Stand $25.46 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Sparks Au via Amazon	2	judgeg, trippy	3
30% off: Tranya T3 Deep Bass True Wireless Earbuds/ 60 Hours Playtime $48.99 Shipped @ Tranya Amazon Au	2	mysterybox, Sawtell	1.5
Elekmall Wireless Earbuds with Touch Control 5.0 Bluetooth Earphones $20.99 Delivered @ elekmall via Amazon AU	2	judgeg, smartazz104	2
10% off Multifunction Portable Wireless Bluetooth Speakers $35.99 Delivered @ MIUSI via Amazon Au	2	tomatosauce, AustraliaObscura	2
Proxima Direct 4k HDMI Cable 3M $11.89 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Profits via Amazon AU	2	tomatosauce, futaris	4
Foldable Aluminium Tablet /Smartphone Stand $15.10 (Was $18.88) + Delivery ($0 w/Prime / $39+) @ Simpeak.AU.store via Amazon AU	2	michaelTito, denpol85, buddy389, OzBargaïn, judgeg	2
Tomight Electric Nail Drill with 11 Grinder Bits $32.19 (Was $45.99) Delivered @ Sahara Amazon	2	Pumat, cynvero	2
Aroma Diffuser and 6 Bottles of Essential Oils $53.95 Delivered (Was $62.95) @ DESERT LOTUS via Amazon AU	1	graceyym	1.666666667
Handheld Percussion Massager for Full Body $50.39 Delivered @ VIKTOR JURGEN AU via Amazon AU	1	tomatosauce	1
Hap Tim Laptop Backpack 15.6/14/13.3" Laptop Bag $24.49 (30% off) + Delivery ($0 with Prime / $39 Spend) @ Haptim Amazon AU	1	Blizzard57	3.5
Foldable Bluetooth Wireless Over Ear Headset $19.99 + Post ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ SWANZE via Amazon	1	Foma2, AustraliaObscura	12.25
HW Bluetooth 5.0 Earbuds with 6000mAh Larger Charging Case 350H Playtime $49.99 (Was $63.99) Delivered @ Huanwan Amazon AU	1	El Psy Kongroo	2
Aroma Diffuser and 6 Bottles of Essential Oils $53.50 Delivered (Was $62.95) @ DESERT LOTUS via Amazon Au	1	OzBargaïn, Benjamin7711	2.666666667
TicWatch Pro 2020 $348 Delivered (20% off) @ Mobvoi Amazon AU	1	davidl2	2
Vantrue 3 Channel Front inside and Rear Dash Cams - N4 $369.99 Delivered (Save $30) @ Vantrue Amazon AU	1	OzBargaïn	1
2 Pack - USB to Micro Charging & Data Cable 1M $7.92 (20% off) + Delivery (Free with Prime/$39 Spend) @ Luoke Amazon AU	1	KirikParty	3
30% off: Tranya B530 Pro Deep Bass True Wireless Earbuds/ 80 Hours Playtime $55.99 Shipped @ Tranya Amazon Au	1	kesterthecat	1
TIMEXING Smart Pest Repeller $16.07 (Was $23.68) + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ TIMEXING-AU Amazon	0	OzBargaïn	0
20% off Tomight Back Posture Corrector $19.96 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Sahara Amazon	0	zubellas, OzBargaïn	1
Apsung RC Car $29.99 Delivered (40% off) @ Apsung-Au via Amazon AU	0	takezo, bobby dazzler	1.5
Goose Down Feather Pillows Pack of 2 $43.46 Delivered @ Puredown Amazon	-2		-2
RENPHO Handheld Massager $138.99 Shipped ($41 off) @ AC GREEN Amazon AU	-2	awaiko, AustraliaObscura	11.4
SATECHI Multimedia Adapter Save 10% off $134.25 (was $158)Delivered @ Satechi AU Amazon AU	-3		-3
10%off Beanie Hat and Scarf Set for Kids $23.99 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ T WILKER Amazon AU	-3	redcreek200, noonu	-3
4K Security Camera System (8CH NVR with 4pcs Cameras) $675.74 Delivered (Was $794.99) @ ReolinkAU Amazon AU	-3	tomatosauce	6.6
Ukiyo Fast Wireless Charger Stand (Qi Charging 10W) $33.71 Shipped (Was $44.95) by UKIYO Universe Amazon AU	-3		-1
HD USB Webcam 1080P $74.98 Delivered @ Zi Qian via Amazon AU	-4	happyauction	-4
Massage Gun $99.99 Delivered @ Jollyfit via Amazon AU	-5	ghostj, camelthief	2
Stainless Steel Chip Bag Clips Large 3" Wide (12 Pack) $19.99 + Shipping ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Home Improvement Amazon AU	-5		-5
Rainbow Measuring Spoons 6 Set, $7.98 (Was $17.95) + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Timexing Amazon AU	-6	chakel	-3
Belkin CAT5e Snagless Patch Cable, 2m, Blue $4.95 + Delivery ($0 with Prime/ $39 Spend) @ Ezi Office AU Amazon	-7		4

From a product point of view, the top 20 best performers are 1 power bank, 1 fashion product, 3 headphones, 1 tool, 1 laptop bag, 1 security camera, 1 desktop computer, 4 computer accessories, 1 torch, 1 instant thermometer, 1 spray bottle, 1 bathroom scale, 1 phone charger, 1 usb cable, 1 kitchen product, 1 router.
From a product point of view, the top 20 worst performers are 2 computer accessories, 2 kitchen products, 3 health products, 1 webcam, 1 phone charger, 1 security camera, 1 fashion product, 1 bedding, 1 toy, 1 pest repellent, 3 headphones, 1 usb cable, 1 diffuser, 1 smart watch, 1 dash cam.
Possibly safe to conclude that most products can end up as either good or poor performing however drilling down in the health products, 2 of them are massage guns and 1 is a posture corrector. Looking at the 5 most recent massage gun deals has an 18.2 average. The 5 most recent posture corrector deals had a 0 average.

Are votes by specific single users voting up deals on a large basis and is this having an effect on posting limitations and performance bans?

To be clear, all votes and accounts are audited so these are just normal OzBargain users.

There were 53 of 141 (38%) deals that received 3 net votes or lower.
15/53 deals (28%) were voted on by 1 user (tomatosauce). 0 votes cast affected posting limits.
11/53 deals (21%) were voted on by 1 user (OzBargaïn). 1 vote cast reduced posting limit from 2 weeks to 1 week
5/53 (9%) deals were vote on by 1 user (AustraliaObscura).
4/53 (8%) deals were voted on by 1 user (judgeg).
2/53 (4%) deals were voted on by 3 separate users (El Psy Kongroo, buddy389, futaris).
1/53 (2%) deals were voted on by 67 separate users.

There is are also a lot of variables that are difficult to equate statistically (at least for me) that may affect results.

A store will be banned if deals posted by representatives continually attract a low amount of votes. The system will ban a store if:

The 2 latest rep posts (excluding those posted before the last performance ban) are 60 days or less apart, and
The vote average for the store's rep posts over the last 90 days is less than or equal to 1
Note: the latest post will be allowed 24 hours to collect votes before vote averages are calculated.

The store is temporarily banned from rep posts for 30 days from the time of the latest rep deal if the above conditions are met. Note that if a store has been banned twice, the third performance based ban is 1 year.

Stats:

For all amazon sellers for all time:
Total number of Amazon 3rd Party Stores: 1126
Total number of Amazon 3rd Party Stores that have been performance banned: 77
Total number of Amazon 3rd Party Stores that are currently banned: 43

My initial recommendations are to:

Add posture correctors to Incomparable Items
Chat to the 2 users who have voted just to get an understanding of their voting. It may mean that OzBargain needs to remind the community of the value of voting (both negative & positive).

Happy to hear some feedback.

spackbace on 20/08/2020 - 19:22

+1

Chat to the 2 users who have voted just to get an understanding of their voting. It may mean that OzBargain needs to remind the community of the value of voting (both negative & positive).

I feel like this is a recurring thing, and something I've brought up previously when other members were doing the same thing, and it's only going to happen again down the track. It's the reason why the front page algorithm keeps changing, because the community grows and average vote count grows with it. The performance based average isn't just an Amazon thing (despite this post being about Amazon), just a generalised, 'stop the spam' kinda comment.

I'm sure you'd agree that +3 to +5 vote average should be achievable from any store posting a decent product for a decent discount (ie not spamming then running away for a month).

As the front-page algorithm changes, as to should any vote based rule.
payton on 24/08/2020 - 15:13
For the month of July how many Spamazon 3rd party rep deals were unpublished due to them not meeting various guidelines?
IMO this metric is needed to complete the picture as to how frequently these annoying jumble of crap shows up on ozbargain.

2nd performance ban should be more than 30 days - maybe make it 90?

The community can't be expected to have to continually neg vote 3rd party amazon posts month after month, people get apathetic in the long run especially if the problem doesn't seem to be going away - they just hide the store. So now, spamazon reps are even more free to spam, because the people that kept them in check no longer even see the deals.

The 'escape' threshold from the performance bans is set a bit too low. Offer a slightly larger discount, or pay a few people to just get it over >1 positive vote and they're escaped the net, good to go. They're now free to advertise a standard spammy deal next time. It doesn't matter if that one performs poorly, just offer a slightly larger discount again afterwards.

Product that is doubtful from medical point of view prob shouldn't be allowed in the first place - posture corrector.

What's threshold was used to deem something as performing poorly? I count 3x oil diffuser deals with +votes of 3 or less. The size of OzBargain's userbase, it really shouldn't be that hard to get positive votes if the discount is actually significant and not just having it priced slightly lower than reg price.

Compared to the ebay posting guidelines, the Amazon 3rd party guidelines is looking a little sparse.
spackbace on 04/09/2020 - 19:26

+1

sigh

I'll repeat, +1 average is way too easy when people blindly upvote
- Moderatorscotty on 05/09/2020 - 16:12
  
  From the moderators' meeting this week, we are working on some ideas:
  
  Possibly increasing the vote average threshold for stores to get performance banned.
  
  Targeting undiscriminating voters and discount their votes when we calculate stores to be performance banned.
  
  Still need to run through the numbers, but hopefully changes will be implemented "soon".
  - spackbace on 05/09/2020 - 18:34
    
    Cheers scotty :)
- ocoolio on 13/09/2020 - 09:42
  
  Targeting undiscriminating voters and discount their votes when we calculate stores to be performance banned.
  
  @WoodYouLikeSomeCash, @spackbace, @neil
  
  After further thoughts on this, I think by far the most fair and easiest is to change the voting to disseminate the same amount of vote-value over 24 hours:
  
  Everyone has one overall vote-value for 24 hours (1 neg and 1 plus)
  
  Each vote divides this into equal chunks. E.g., if a person votes 20 deals up, each vote count only as a fraction of up (1/20 = +0.05 on each deal)
  
  The calculation would apply to both ups and downs (so it would apply to people who neg a lot, like myself :)
  
  This way you don't need to understand why someone would candy-crush all deals with an upvote, but it would balance their mindless upvoting to people who carefully think about a deal and say "yep, this is actually a deal".
  
  Possibly increasing the vote average threshold for stores to get performance banned.
  
  The former proposal might solve this: indiscriminate voters wouldn't really upvote anything because each of their votes would amount to very little. On the other hand, carefully placed neg votes would actually make crap deals and reps disappear.
  
  However, increasing the ratio is still an obvious need without the changes outlined above: mindless upvoters totally mess the idea up.
  
  The latter point is important because people can place mindless upvotes, but cannot place mindless downvotes: downvotes require an explanation and if the explanation is not accepted, the neg votes can be revoked. This stringent rule does not apply to upvotes (why is this imbalance? why not just downvote crap deals without explanation?)
Moderatorneil on 10/09/2020 - 17:06

We've been discussing these issues regularly and will be trialing some stuff.

Firstly, we are not implementing my 2 initial recommendations. We don't want to be in a position to adding arbitrary items to ban lists especially given the amount of requests to ban random things on here.

Instead, we have come up with an algorithm that flags undiscriminating voting patterns and discounts those votes when calculating store performance bans. This is currently running and affects all stores so let's see how it goes for the short term and follow up with some numbers.
- spackbace on 10/09/2020 - 19:04
  
  Cheers neil :)

WatchNerd on 04/04/2022 - 11:44

+1

Are there limits on how many stores can be associated with one account because 9 seems excessive?

Do all these stores get banned if one does or can they keep posting deals under a different one as though nothing even happened?
- Moderatorscotty on 05/04/2022 - 11:26
  
  Are there limits…
  
  Not at the moment
  
  Do all these stores get banned
  
  The posting limit for merchants is applied to both the store and the poster. However in this there's a possibility that new stores are created on Amazon to bypass our performance based ban. I'll discuss it with the team tomorrow.
  - WatchNerd on 11/05/2022 - 14:18
    
    Here is an example of what I was saying above.
    
    EASTCREADOR Amazon AU is currently banned from store rep posts until 22/05/2022, yet some of the reps can still post deals like Omer Celik just did at one of his 8 other stores.
    - Moderatorhamza23 on 11/05/2022 - 14:34
      
      one of their other stores
      
      The rep doesn't actually work directly for those stores, nor are the stores likely to all be related to each other.
      
      The rep is a paid poster from Australia, posting deals for overseas reps who can't, don't want to or don't know how to. They are doing that for multiple overseas reps/stores.
      
      Similar to a user who works at Coles and McDonald's, if Coles is banned from posting, they can still post for McDonald's. As long as they aren't the one who caused the Coles ban, then their account would be banned as well. In this case the rep is not responsible for the sockpuppeting ban on Eastcreador.
      
      Our system is set up to differentiate all the various bans and limits, and how/where they should apply. There are also personal posting limits, in addition to store posting limits, so a user can't simply post 9 deals in 9 days for 9 stores.
Moderatorhamza23 on 12/09/2022 - 09:38

Following recent discussions and analysis, we have decided to indefinitely ban associated posts for 3rd party sellers on Amazon Australia.

We had seen a decline in the number of associated 3rd party seller deals on Amazon Australia, due to our ban of new overseas sellers, an increase in the feedback requirement to post and our automated performance based bans. However, we have also seen a reduction in quality/vote average of the overall deals, which has lead to this decision.

Previously, we had a few consistently high performance associated users, however those users and stores have been few and far between and as such we are receiving almost no popular/good deals each month.

3rd party Amazon Australia deals will still be posted by the community, so any good deals shouldn't be missed. For users who still want to see third party deals from associated users, you can subscribe to this thread. For associated users who can no longer post deals, likewise you can post them in that thread.

Should any stores attempt to sockpuppet, to bypass the ban, please be aware that this will lead to storewide bans. We will be monitoring all third party Amazon deals closely.

Thank you

Edit - Summary of some 3rd party Amazon stats (for associated deals) as part of our analysis:

August 2022 - 80 Deals - Avg Vote Count 5.46 - Front page 2/80 (2.5%)
July 2022 - 117 Deals - Avg Vote Count 6.32 - Front Page 3/117 (2.56%)
June 2022 - 93 Deals - Avg Cote Count 5.52 - Front Page 1/93 (1.08%)
May 2022 - 88 Deals - Avg Vote Count 4.43 - Front Page 0/88 (0%)
August 2021 - 169 Deals - Avg Vote Count 7.34 - Front Page 7/169 (4.14%)
July 2021 - 207 Deals - Avg Vote Count 8.41 - Front page 10/207 (4.83%)
July 2020 - 158 Deals - Avg Vote Count 8.49 - Front Page 8/158 (5.06%)

2018-Mid 2020 Stats
- Clear on 12/09/2022 - 20:46
  
  Let's say a 3rd party store with a rep that previously had popular deals can't apply to have an exception made right? I figure that would make the rule null and unfair for others.
  - Moderatorhamza23 on 13/09/2022 - 09:44
    
    We did consider allowing exceptions for a few sellers, however I think there are too many potential problems/issues in doing that. It would be confusing for the community to still have a few amazon reps post, it can create the feeling of bias/favouritism as we are being subjective in deciding which stores are allowed and also past performance doesn't necessarily mean the future deals will be popular (then we need to make another subjective decision as to end the exception).
    
    This is would all be for maybe a couple of deals a month, that were semi popular, that might be posted by the community anyway. The bigger brands/stores, which are likely to the be the popular ones, also often have their own domain/store which they can still post to directly or via other marketplaces.
    - Clear on 13/09/2022 - 11:56
      
      That makes sense. I only asked if a previous association wanted to suddenly do deals again, but I don't think that'll happen anytime soon.