Seeking Feedback: Amazon Australia 3rd Party Sellers (aka Spamazon)

neil on 26/10/2018 - 16:20
Last edited 10/09/2020 - 12:25 by 2 other users

We are seeking feedback on what actions, if any, to take on Amazon Australia 3rd party sellers. Long read ahead.

Current Guidelines

  • The seller must have a minimum of 90% feedback, based on at least 10 ratings (exceptions below).
  • In the absence of sufficient feedback, an exception will be made if the seller has a website (e.g. Kitchen Warehouse on Amazon, Kitchenwarehouse.com.au)
  • An exception will also be made for items that are fulfilled by Amazon, however this particular exception does not apply to associated users/representative posts.
  • Overseas users will not be able to post Amazon Australia deals. However overseas representatives can contact us with their store name to apply for an exception.
  • Overseas sellers/stores require at least 90% feedback with 10 ratings to be approved (Note: Mods manually approve overseas reps to post, they are banned by default, Australian reps don't require approval).
  • The listing must have a quantity of at least 10 available.

Amazon AU Guidelines

Amazon Stores are treated like any other stores and fall under posting limits.

Posting Limits

  • Maximum 1 deal per 24 hours
  • Maximum 2 deals per 7 days is the default, however…
  • If the vote average across the recent rep deals is 0 or below, the domain is temporarily banned until the vote average is corrected over time.
  • If the vote average across the recent rep deals is between 0 and 3, the domain is temporarily banned for 2 weeks from the last post.
  • If the vote average across the recent rep deals is between 3 and 8, it is reduced to maximum 1 deal per week.
  • If the two most recent rep deals made the front page, the limit is increased to 3 deals per week.
  • If the three most recent rep deals get double the front page minimum votes or more (currently 50 votes), the limit is increased to 4 deals per week.

They also fall under posting bans.

Posting Bans

A store will be banned if deals posted by representatives continually attract a low amount of votes. The system will ban a store if:

  • The 2 latest rep posts are 30 days or less apart, and
  • The vote average for the store's rep posts over the last 90 days is less than or equal to 1

Note: the latest post will be allowed 24 hours to collect votes before vote averages are calculated.

The store is temporarily banned from rep posts for 30 days from the time of the latest rep deal if the above conditions are met. Note that if a store has been banned twice, the third performance based ban is 1 year.

Current Situation

All rep posted deals for all sites vs. rep posted deals for Amazon.

YEAR MONTH All Deals Votes Amz Deals Votes
2018 1 25 36.8 0       0.0  
2018 2 62 55.1 3       3.3  
2018 3 85 47.1 1       4.0  
2018 4 98 44.4 8       23.1  
2018 5 90 34.4 11       2.0  
2018 6 199 47.2 15       15.2  
2018 7 214 44.5 25       19.8  
2018 8 222 31.4 62       12.0  
2018 9 300 23.0 168       6.4  
2018 10 201 30.8 76       8.5  
  • Amazon 3rd Party Rep posted deals perform way worse than avg. rep posted deals.
  • More significant is that Amazon 3rd party deals were 56% of all rep posted deals in September.
  • We usually have about 3000 deals (rep & normal users) posted a month so rep deals are usually less than 10%.

As of now, we have stopped approving new overseas Amazon sellers.

Last 10 Amazon Rep Deals (from 24/10 backwards for constancy):

Possible Solutions & Our Feedback

  • Increase feedback requirement (e.g. from 10 feedback to 30). [Don't think this will affect deal quality]
  • Ban overseas reps. [This was our previous stance (made this thread) and lead to more sockpuppets, companies paid posters, users using VPN]
  • Before approving seller, ask for example deal. [We aren't experts at everything + quite time consuming, and only covers their first post]

Big picture is we want good deals to be posted as well as users being transparent with their associations. Let me know your suggestions via comments.

— I'll add your suggestions below with feedback —

  • No associated and only permit Amazon deals from non L & P platers (have posted other deals * at least 6 weeks from post). [Downside is we lose good associated deals, also punishes new users who find a good Amazon deal). e.g. L Plater: [Pre-Order] Bad Boys 4K UHD + Blu Ray $19.84 + Delivery (Free with Prime/ $49 Spend) @ Amazon AU +16 votes
  • Make associated users visit site 50 times or spend 20 hours on site before being able to post. [Would help user understand OzBargain better but not always easy to identify Amazon poster + knowing site doesn't mean knowing a good deal]
  • Add a queue for mods or Power Users to approve posts. [Eliminates bad deals and bad titles/missing prices etc. Added workload on mods/pus, on weekends could see big delay. Requires a bit of development. PUs/Mods not experts on determining a deal]
  • Delete deal and permanently ban store if no votes within 10 minutes. [Will remove bad deals but may also remove good deals depending on time, day, poor title]

Update

OK, some good discussion points and after a bit of deliberation we will be implementing the following:

  • Continue moratorium on approving overseas Amazon 3rd party rep accounts.
  • Continue block on posts from overseas posters for Amazon deals.
  • Remove access to posting on already approved Amazon 3rd party rep accounts for very poorly performing stores.
  • Continue automated performance based posting bans for Amazon 3rd party stores (just like all other stores).
  • Reopen the Amazon Australia: Overseas Sellers/Reps Post Your Deals Here Thread

We will come back in a month or so to check stats and see if we need to go further and:

  • Ban L/P platers from posting Amazon 3rd party seller deals.

Ideas that are being considered but required a big technical implementation:

  • Moderation queue for Amazon deals where they would need approval by mods/power users to approve.

Other suggestions:

  • We will have a think about the best practices to display Amazon shipping/Prime/etc in the title.
Site Discussion

Related Stores

Amazon AU
Amazon AU
Marketplace

Comments

  • knobbs on 26/10/2018 - 16:48
    +22

    +1

    Thank you for looking into this Neil, much needed.

  • Tacooo on 26/10/2018 - 17:12
    +1

    Seconded. Remove all overseas associated sellers. Either that or deals from legit members only (no associated at all) with possible conditions like accounts no less than a month old to prevent sockpuppeting (or possibly rep requirements as it's a better indication of a user's past performance on the site).

    • neil on 27/10/2018 - 18:24
      +3

      So to sum up your suggestion (not including already suggested ones in post):

      • No associated and only permit Amazon deals from non L & P platers (have posted other deals & at least 6 weeks from post).

      Pros:

      • Eliminates all bad deals from associated users.

      Cons:

  • spackbace on 26/10/2018 - 17:17
    +1

    No L-plate Amazon au posts?

    • pegaxs on 26/10/2018 - 20:42
      +1

      And No P platers. And contribute to the community. Min number of contributions. And a time delay before they can post their first post.

      • Skinnerr on 30/10/2018 - 01:17

        Nailed it. No day/hour old accounts would halve the crap spamazon posts.

  • Clear on 26/10/2018 - 17:30
    +2

    I didn't think it was bad until I saw how many were sitting in New for hours last night.

    Increase feedback requirement (e.g. from 10 feedback to 30). [Don't think this will affect deal quality]

    I don't think this will work as it's very easy for sellers to get fake feedback. Sure Amazon have cracked down on it but still very easy.

    Before approving seller, ask for example deal. [We aren't experts at everything + quite time consuming, and only covers their first post]

    I feel this is a good way of approaching it as sellers won't be able to easily bypass like an overseas ban with a VPN. The downside is you guys have enough on your plate, so perhaps having the power users approving? However that could also be abused…

    Perhaps as what Spackbace suggested? L-plate posts with possibly tighter restrictions on when you become P-plate and so forth?

    • neil on 28/10/2018 - 02:11

      I feel this is a good way of approaching it as sellers won't be able to easily bypass like an overseas ban with a VPN. The downside is you guys have enough on your plate, so perhaps having the power users approving?

      So basically with this suggestion, we would have to create a queue of non-published deals which await a moderator or power user to approve.

      Pro:

      • This would entirely eliminate users/guest from ever seeing a bad deal.
      • Would also allow the titles, price etc to be correct at time of publish instead of fixing after the fact.

      Con:

      • This would add an increased amount of added work put on to moderators and power users.
      • Weekend queues could take a couple of days to approve.
      • As PUs and Mods aren't experts at all bargains, there may be areas where it would be hard to ascertain if something is a bargain or something the community wants.
      • Require a bit of development to implement this.

      Have already commented above on P & L Suggestion

  • Diji1 on 26/10/2018 - 18:11

    I'd increase the number of required ratings from 10.

    • neil on 28/10/2018 - 02:13

      Would increasing the required rating from 10 to x, make reps more likely to post good deals?

      • Skinnerr on 30/10/2018 - 01:29

        Catch 22

  • pegaxs on 26/10/2018 - 20:30
    +9

    No associated posted from new users if they are from Amazon. Shills/sock puppetry gets the store banned.

    It’s getting to the point where I can’t see genuine deals from the spam. It’s 90+% garbage items. Screen protectors and cases. Maybe something similar to eBay. Unless the seller has a certain rating. Or better still, no associated posts for Amazon.

    And I’m tired of the “free postage” tag lines. It isn’t free postage. Certain conditions have to be met. I don’t want to buy Prime, I don’t need $49 worth of cases and screen savers, and I’m not blowing my free prime trial on a $8 plastic garbage item. This should also be removed from the posts, as it’s not free postage, it’s free postage with conditions

    It’s getting to the point where I am just going to block every Amazon post, which is a shame, because there are some great deals, like recent Nintendo consoles and games. I shouldn’t have to miss out on deals that are worth it because the spammers have moved in and over taken the feed with garbage.

    2018-9-300-23.0-168-6.4

    This sums it up. Last month, over 1/2 the posts were for Amazon with an average vote of 6.4.

    • Clear on 26/10/2018 - 20:38

      Do you mean the line about free shipping with Prime or $49 spend? That's actually a requirement by OzBargain in the list of rules when you go to post.

      If the deal you are posting is fulfilled by Amazon, please add '+ Delivery (Free with Prime/ $49 Spend)' after the item cost.

      Sums it up really well. Especially considering postage can vary from state to state without it.

      • pegaxs on 26/10/2018 - 20:49
        +1

        I just get tired of sellers saying “yeah, can’t compare with shipping price because this is free shipping” when it quite (excuse the pun) clearly isn’t the case.

        Free shipping in the post title is like putting out sugar for ants. It’s there to attract. People go looking for it. It isnt free shipping. It cost money to be a prime member or I get a once off 30 day trial.

        Sure, if the items are over the $49 and it works for their item, then list it with free postage. Otherwise, no, stop attracting the ants with nutrasweet, it just ain’t sugar. It’s lies.

        • Clear on 26/10/2018 - 20:53
          +1

          Except the current postage requirement is very clear on how shipping actually is. Especially considering there are title character limits that are easily reached. It's also important to remember that 'Fulfilled by Amazon' means the postage cost is going to Amazon and not the seller.

          So if we break it down…

          Product cost + Delivery (delivery varies for each person)
          Product cost + Free Delivery with Prime (Requires you to have Amazon Prime)
          Product cost + Free Delivery with $49 Spend (Requires to have $49+ worth of products in your cart from Amazon)

          So how do we make that easy to understand and short…?

          +Delivery (Free with Prime/ $49 Spend)

          • pegaxs on 26/10/2018 - 21:31
            +1

            @Clear: Why put it in the title at all? Put it in the body of the post. If title space is so limited, why put this in there?

            XYZ product $22.38 @ Amazon.AU with code. 23% off.

            I want to know that the item I am looking for is the best deal. And putting that it is “free postage” and then attaching a load of caveats to it, is not free postage.

            I don’t care who pays it, or who collects it, or who levies the postage. I just want to know the best price for the item. If it isn’t “free” postage (ie: eBay style free postage/built into price) then it should not be listed as “free”, regardless of how many hoops I have to jump through.

            I’m not paying for prime, because I buy maybe one thing every 2 months. I’m not using up me free trial on a couple of $4 screen protectors, and I’m not going to spend $49 just so I can get to the free postage threshold, unless there is a $1 or $2 item required.

            • Clear on 26/10/2018 - 21:37

              @pegaxs: Because if the shipping isn't free for everyone then it is a requirement to have the shipping included in the title. As it has always been.

              XYZ product $22.38 @ Amazon.AU with code. 23% off.

              This doesn't follow the rules. Generally you would report the deal for having a mistake in the title/description so a mod/power user can fix it to follow the correct format.

              • altomic on 26/10/2018 - 22:06
                +1

                @Clear:

                XYZ product $22.38 + $5 shipping (or free with Prime) @ Amazon.AU

                title should show shipping cost.

              • pegaxs on 26/10/2018 - 23:15
                +2

                @Clear: I’m confused as at why some posts have shipping costs and some posts don’t (outside of Amazon posts). Why is it that only Amazon posts seem to require this?

                If it’s under $49, it should just say +shipping or if fixed shipping, list the actual shipping cost. People who have prime know they get it with free shipping. It just seems that every post for Amazon is an advertisement for prime.

                Put it at the top of the post that free shipping is available and list the conditions. Or, put it at the bottom of the post. I just don’t think that every single Amazon post needs it in the title. Not everyone has prime or is going to be buying more than the min spend just to get free shipping.

                If the items are over $49, add the “free shipping” to the title. If not, add “+ shipping” because not everyone has prime or is going to waste their free trial on the junk that has been posted lately.

                Under $49 threshold

                XYZ product $22.38 + shipping @ Amazon.AU

                Over $49 threshold

                ABC product $51.43 + Free Shipping (Over $49 Spend) @ Amazon.AU

                • Clear on 27/10/2018 - 00:20

                  @pegaxs: If there is free shipping then it's not required to put the shipping. If something doesn't have free shipping and you're wondering why… perhaps you could tell the OP or report it?

                • spackbace on 27/10/2018 - 00:22
                  +2

                  @pegaxs: Amazon shipping costs are generally variable. When shipping isn't a set price for all of aus, "+delivery" is acceptable

                • xev on 27/10/2018 - 09:27
                  +1

                  @pegaxs: Hey Mate.

                  As you probably know, I post frequent Amazon deals and as I have Amazon Prime, I can't see what the postage costs are for non-Prime members. If I look at the product page in incognito mode, Amazon says I have to sign in to find out postage cost. So I am not able to find out what the postage cost will be.

                  And, as PJC and Hamza recently found, postage costs vary depending on your location.

                  You would know better what Amazon normally charge you for delivery at your location.

                  I would love to just state 'Delivery $5.99/free with Prime', it would be much simpler.

                  • Clear on 27/10/2018 - 09:39

                    @xev: Yup this is what I meant in my comments. Generally each state has different postage. Where I live for example is usually double of everyone else so Prime is good value for me.

                    • pegaxs on 27/10/2018 - 10:19

                      @Clear: You guys are missing my point. I understand the need to indicate postage may be required and that different areas have different postage rates.

                      My point is, it ISNT free postage for Amazon items. It's either though minimum spend or membership. "Free Postage" in the post title is misleading and gives unwanted focus to these spam ads. Most of these sellers are selling single items, of exceptionally low value and the cost of postage far outstrips the items cost on most occasions. It's hard to compare an item with another store when the word "free postage" is in the title and it is misleading, and if I neg the deal with included postage costs as cheaper elsewhere, the first comeback is "but it's free with $49 or prime", neither of which I (and many others) meet the conditions of.

                      While I understand that a lot of people may have Prime accounts, not everyone does. So, my suggestions is, if it does not meet the price requirement in a single transaction, then don't put "Free Postage" in the title, just put "+ postage". Prime members will know they get free postage already. Put the "free postage" conditions in the post somewhere. Not in the title.

                      That being said, maybe it's a topic for a whole new thread. This isn’t addressing the topic at hand, which is, what to do about the influx of spammers posting mostly useless, low quality posts.

                      • xev on 27/10/2018 - 10:56
                        +1

                        @pegaxs: I have put my full thoughts and suggestions below.

                        • pegaxs on 27/10/2018 - 11:02
                          +1

                          @xev: Bingo! had a read and it's well in line what what I am trying to convey.

                          While I appreciate legitimate users and long time users (ie: yourself and clear, amongst many others.), I have no problems with how Amazon deals are posted. It's more the 1 post, zero comment, signed up yesterday, not seen since sign up time poster that are the issue. Adding the "free postage" to garbage tier/low cost items just dilutes the appeal of it and just makes every post look like spam, including the great users who post awesome deals.

                      • Clear on 27/10/2018 - 11:22
                        +2

                        @pegaxs: You weren't clear 🤣🤣🤣

    • neil on 28/10/2018 - 14:48
      +1

      No associated posted from new users if they are from Amazon. Shills/sock puppetry gets the store banned.

      Shills & Sockpuppets gets the store banned anyway as per our usual site policy. Sockpuppeting

      I've commented on no associated posts from new users with this comment.

      Maybe something similar to eBay. Unless the seller has a certain rating.

      Currently our guidelines state a minimum of 90% feedback, based on at least 10 ratings. What do you suggest?

    • Godric on 31/10/2018 - 17:51

      I like these posts purely for JV's comments on them

  • MJ1 on 26/10/2018 - 22:05
    +1

    All the spam is new accounts and based in China. They are just advertising because they don't know what Ozbargain is really about. The Aussie reps do though.

    I think just ban Chinese reps from making Amazon posts forever, or until they get to know Ozbargain e.g. have visited 50 times or spent 20 hours over 3 months etc.

    Some will try to get around this, but they will get sniffed out pretty quick and it will stop the majority, which will keep members happy.

    https://imgflip.com/i/2l0hvn

  • ocoolio on 26/10/2018 - 22:09

    What would we really lose out on if we simply didn't allow 3rd party Amazon posts, but keep Amazon own deals?
    (not a rhetorical question; I'm thinking we would be better off without these, but I'm open to other point of views)

    • tobi3421 on 27/10/2018 - 03:12
      +5

      Honestly, i don't think we lose out too much by banning 3rd party Amazon posts. The majority of their 'deals' are just inflated prices with a 'discount' or just garbage/goods they purchase from aliexpress and resell in Australia. They view Ozbargain as an advertising site to a point its getting ridiculous.

      • pegaxs on 27/10/2018 - 08:36
        +4

        This is it in a nutshell. They go to an Alibaba manufacturer and do a minumum order and get their own name printed on some generic garbage, throw it on an Amazon store, come here, create an account and start spamming.

        You look on AliExpress and you can find the identical item for a lot less and there will be 4 or 5 different brand names for the same items, along with the exact same stock photos.

        Can we add “shoplify” shops to this list? Shop has been running 2 months, selling 2 or 3 generic China sourced garbage… Time to make an OzB account and start spamming.

        If their website has “Somebody in Sometown just bought a Thingy” pop up box, it should be banned.

        • neil on 28/10/2018 - 02:24

          If their website has “Somebody in Sometown just bought a Thingy” pop up box, it should be banned.

          Ban Kogan? :)

          (Actually they've been rep banned for several years for sockpuppeting.)

          • pegaxs on 28/10/2018 - 09:24

            @neil: Kogan sell more than one or two items and has been running longer than two months.

            I was referring more to the reps that come here and post from these sites. But it seems that reps are already banned from Kogan, so it does work. :D

            I don’t mind if regular users find these shopify sites and post the deals, but when it’s a 2 month old site selling nothing but two beach towels and is posted by a 2 day old rep and gathers no or very low votes, Reps are banned from posting. If they shill/sock puppet, then the store gets banned.

            Obviously, bigger stores that offer a wide range of products would be against the community wishes, but small, garbage, drop shipping sites with no history, no one would miss.

    • neil on 28/10/2018 - 02:22
      +1

      What would we really lose out on if we simply didn't allow 3rd party Amazon posts, but keep Amazon own deals?

      So associated and non-associated posts? We'd lose out on a lot of good deals mentioned in the description for a blanket ban. The amount of good deals gets narrower if we just include associated deals.

      Sun Valley posted by xev, who commented in this thread, has had their last 8 out of 10 posts reach the front page.

      • pegaxs on 28/10/2018 - 15:01
        +1

        I think this comes down to a comment I made early regarding this.

        People like @xev or @clear who post deals for Amazon are ok. They do their homework and are proactive in the OzB community. I think that their posts should be allowed, but for the others, limit them to people who have met a certain minimum standard in the community. The reason people like xev do well, is because they are connected to the community and spend time here and know what is a good deal and what is trash.

        Where the problem lays is when new users turn up, post their deals and then promptly vanish, only to pop up a week later and post more garbage without assisting the community with questions in their post or anywhere.

        So, maybe a middle ground. No posts from users who have not at least made a few contributions or at least been here a set amount of time. (This May help with the troll posts from new accounts over in the automotive forum as well…). If they log out after their post and don’t come back until their next post and consistently ignore users questions in their previous post, it’s spam and they are not helping he community, they are just here to advertise…

        • neil on 30/10/2018 - 20:35

          No posts from users who have not at least made a few contributions or at least been here a set amount of time.

          That was suggested here, so no L & P plate deals is your suggestion basically?

          • pegaxs on 30/10/2018 - 20:44

            @neil: Correct. I think this goes for more of the Amazon thing than it does for most other deals. I think a majority of spam deals comes from online store owners coming here thinking this is an advertising website, and it isn’t.

            Some other websites and forums I go on, there is a minimum number of posts and a certain amount of time to pass before users can start accessing all features. While we have had some good L and P plate posters, I feel as a majority of the latest batch are just spammers for their junk sites

            Maybe a Spamazon sub forum where potential L and P players can say hi, introduce themselves and their store and post a deal over there. If people like it, promote it to the deals page. If not, it dies in the forum. How well the store and deals are received will give that rep greater privileges to post their deals to the main page without further vetting.

            They start posting garbage, poor deals, garbage offers, then at that point, the normal system will take over and ban them.

    • Skinnerr on 30/10/2018 - 01:44

      We'd lose legit deals from honest Amazon reps.

  • MJ1 on 26/10/2018 - 23:37
    +1

    Another thing that reps may not realise is that when they post a deal that is not amazing, the resulting negative comments and links to cheaper competitor products are indexed by Google.

    So when potential customers Google their company, those things will be revealed and this brand damage can easily be traced back to the rep. Education in the form of a pre-posting warning or short tutorial etc?

  • savage bargain on 27/10/2018 - 00:40

    A hurdle to stop reps posting non-bargains to OzBargain would help, as if it's not easy, it would stop some follow through with the posts.

    Maybe having someone check the quality if the first 2 posts before it appears online (not necessarily if it's a good deal, but that it's written well/includes shipping/etc) and give them feedback on what did and didn't work?

    Or a short quiz on how to post/what is or isn't a bargain to help teach them this isn't some free advertising site?

    Edit: Accidentally hit post.

    • neil on 29/10/2018 - 16:02

      Or a short quiz on how to post/what is or isn't a bargain to help teach them this isn't some free advertising site?

      What did you have in mind?

      • savage bargain on 31/10/2018 - 11:08

        I'm thinking few multiple choice questions on things such as:
        - Select from the following the most suitable title for this example bargain
        - Is this example bargain an actual bargain" (use an example of a high % off but a high initial price so the discounted price is still more expensive elsewhere)
        - Select from below methods how to check whether the bargain is an actual bargain.

        Then have it set up that it shows some text for why they selected the right or wrong answer, similar to the click-as-you-go training that they have at workplace. So in the case of the best bargain title, if they select one that doesn't have it's price in there, a "the final price of the item is needed as the percentage discount doesn't indicate what users will be paying" or "yes, this is the most suitable title as it includes the final price in AUD, postage details, and the website/seller".

        If someone genuinely wants to post bargains, they'll learn from this. If someone wants to use it for advertising, they'll get sick of answering the questions before posting (hopefully) as it's harder to spam when they have extra stuff to do.

  • xev on 27/10/2018 - 10:53
    +4

    I would like to address two issue here;

    The first being the need to put '+ Delivery (Free with Prime/ $49 Spend) @ Amazon' in every Amazon prime post, I think members are getting tired of seeing this repeatedly and it contributes to members feeling that deals are getting 'spammy'.

    I think most members either know how Amazon and prime deals work, or will learn quickly.

    Amazon is separated into three groups; products they sell, products they fulfil and products from sellers who just advertise on Amazon and post themselves.

    I would like to suggest different info in the titles for these groups:

    • For products sold directly by Amazon, ie. Kindles, Kindle Books, Alexa Echo's, Amazon Basics etc (these all have free postage), Sitewide deals, ie. the recent 25% off food products deal & Service Subscriptions, that the title state @ Amazon or @ Amazon Australia

    • For products that are prime eligible, that the title just state @ Amazon Prime and they include info on how Prime & postage works in their posts instead, similar to how I do on the top of my deals

    • For all other posts, as they will either have fixed postage cost or free shipping, that these titles state + $5.99 delivery @ Amazon Marketplace

    This will tidy up the titles, reduce the impression that OzBargain is full of spam posts and help member know whether the product will be sent by Amazon or a third party.

    The second issue I would like to address is the main issue; Drop-Shipping tier products.

    If you place any blanket bans, this may affect genuine sellers who may have very good deals.

    To reduce the number of sellers posting crap deals for crap products, in addition to existing rules, I would suggest allowing OzBargain members to police this.

    If members can show that an identical product posted on OzBargain is available significantly cheaper elsewhere, that the product is low quality and that the majority of products in the seller's Amazon store are of similar quality. The member provides info in a comment (similar to this) and then reports the deal as spam.

    If shown to be correct, a moderator then gives the seller a ban (30 days) and a warning that if they wish to post deals on OzBargain in the future, they compare their products with sites such as AliExpress and eBay and make sure that their product is cheaper. And warn that if you receive a similar complaint in the future, the ban will be permanent.

    This way members can better contribute to removing low-tier sellers and make it easier for Moderators to check and act appropriately.

    Disclaimer: I post Amazon deals for TaoTronics, RAVPower, VAVA & HooToo and while I am doing my best to bring the vote average up, these other sellers are not helping.

    • hamza23 on 27/10/2018 - 13:06
      +3

      To reduce the number of sellers posting crap deals for crap products, in addition to existing rules, I would suggest allowing OzBargain members to police this.

      This is already the case, we have automated performance bans already in place. Neil explained that in the post.

      It works similarly to what you have suggested, except that it's automated based on vote average, the ban length is also 30 days but after 2 posts not 1. The third ban is for 1 year.

      Moderators would not want to do anything like that manually, so it is done automatically on the vote average. It's also tricky comparing items shipped in 1 week from Australia with certain protections, than items shipped in 1-2 months from overseas. I would not want to say either is necessarily better or be the one responsible for judging that.

      Those who have ever reported a deal for being cheaper elsewhere, would know the message they get back which basically says to use the negative vote button and that stores with bad deals will be banned, this is in the hands of the community:

      "For bad deals / items cheaper elsewhere, as per our guidelines stores that have low or no votes will be suspended then banned from posting over time. Refer to https://www.ozbargain.com.au/wiki/help:store_representative?… If you find the item is cheaper elsewhere or similar please use the negative vote button within our voting guidelines."

      Checking the logs, last night we banned 3 Amazon sellers and the night before 2 Amazon sellers, amongst a few non Amazon websites also:

      11 hours ago system Store amazon.com.au-A3IRWJRQOW6WOY banned Expiry: Sat Nov 24 20:37:56 2018, Reason: Too many rep posted deals garnering negative or no votes (Rep only), Link: /wiki/help:store_representative#performance-based_store_bans
      11 hours ago system Store amazon.com.au-A2IOCLQH63K7E banned Expiry: Sat Nov 24 19:54:13 2018, Reason: Too many rep posted deals garnering negative or no votes (Rep only), Link: /wiki/help:store_representative#performance-based_store_bans
      11 hours ago system Store amazon.com.au-A2XW6OB69L814N banned Expiry: Sat Nov 24 19:18:16 2018, Reason: Too many rep posted deals garnering negative or no votes (Rep only), Link: /wiki/help:store_representative#performance-based_store_bans

      26/10/2018 - 01:35 system Store amazon.com.au-AU1B7JL6MJWXL banned Expiry: Fri Nov 23 17:15:05 2018, Reason: Too many rep posted deals garnering negative or no votes (Rep only), Link: /wiki/help:store_representative#performance-based_store_bans
      26/10/2018 - 01:35 system Store amazon.com.au-A1XXCS8B48QS6U banned Expiry: Fri Nov 23 13:23:17 2018, Reason: Too many rep posted deals garnering negative or no votes (Rep only), Link: /wiki/help:store_representative#performance-based_store_bans

      This is the performance based ban system we already have in place, banning the poor performing sellers after 2 deals with a low vote count. I think doing so after 2 deals is strict but fair, however the current feedback is that isn't enough which is what we are trying to address and looking for suggestions.

      At the moment that looks like banning overseas reps, which is fair enough. However the negative in this is (1) it increases sockpuppeting as overseas users seek out AU users to post deals for them on sites like Airtasker and private Facebook groups, the later being hard for us to track and (2) Overseas users can simply use VPN to post anyway (only some will do that, the majority won't).

      Moderators manually approving sellers by asking for example deals was suggested is an idea, but it will be quite time consuming and generally our stance has been to let members decide what is a good deal or not and the performance based ban system allows them to do that and gives them the power to have a store banned if they aren't posting good deals.

      Increasing the rating requirement can help slightly, but as clear points out, it's easy to fake reviews on Amazon. Also reviews aren't really an indicator of a seller providing good deals or not.

      This is where we are at. It might be that there are just too many, which I sort of think is the main issue and we'll just have to indefinitely suspend new sellers. I think the performance ban system works but due to the volume it's too much in the short term to wait for each seller to post 2 deals before getting banned.

      In regards to the title, there are some issues there. I'd rather not get too off topic as this thread was about bad Amazon posts, but:

      (1) Overall it is too complicated for most users to be able to comply with, also if the OP has prime they aren't going to know what the delivery cost is.

      products that are prime eligible

      (2) All items sold by Amazon (your first dot point) should be Prime eligible (your 2nd dot point). For prime exclusive deals we already have a requirement to add [Amazon Prime] at the start of the deal and nothing further.

      these all have free postage

      (3) Not all items sold by Amazon have free postage (only if they are over $49).
      Eg Deal Price: $9.99 & FREE Delivery on orders over $49
      Ships from and sold by Amazon AU.

      have fixed postage cost

      (4) You mentioned previously that postage costs vary, eg $5.99 for me and $7.99 for PJC. Not fixed postage cost. Clear also mentioned postage costs to Tas are higher. This information is also impossible to find out if you are a prime member, as you mentioned. If the OP is a prime member they could not be expected to include such information.

      help member know whether the product will be sent by Amazon or a third party

      (5) We currently do @ Amazon or @ Amazon AU for deals from Amazon themselves, or @ Merchant Name Amazon or @ Merchant Name Amazon AU for third party sellers (whether it's fulfilled by Amazon or not). A bit different from what you said but I think it gets the important info across (whether you are buying from Amazon directly or from third party seller) without being too complex.

      I think you/some are indicating that you would prefer something like 'Product $30 + Delivery @ Amazon' without mentioning it can be free delivery with prime or $49 spend. The issue is you won't know if it's prime eligible and we won't tag it as [Prime] at the start unless it's exclusively a prime deal. I understand your point about addressing that but hoping for something simple that OP's can understand and information that everyone can obtain.

      Edit: 'ABC Product $26 + Delivery @ Merchant Name Amazon (Prime Eligible)' would be an alternate way to do it? For items fulfilled by Amazon. For items over $49 it would just be 'ABC Product $49 Delivered @ Merchant Name Amazon'. For items fulfilled by third party sellers it would be 'ABC Product $26 + Delivery @ Merchant Name Amazon'. That isn't really any less characters though and it misses the point that if you buy 2 $26 items or something else then delivery is then free. Not sure if it's any better on second thoughts.

      Please correct me if anything I've said above is missing something, I am still fairly new to Amazon.

      • xev on 28/10/2018 - 10:42

        Hey Hamza, I tried really hard to keep it simple and then I read your comment… lol

        I think we may be misunderstanding what each other was saying in regards to what goes into the title. Rather than go through what you said point by point I think it might be better to start again and try and explain more about Amazon, though I will still address some of your points.

        In my previous comment, I made a mistake in saying Amazon-owned products, like Echo Dots and AmazonBasics had free post for everyone, this was a misunderstanding on my part, I obviously didn't pay enough attention to these before I became a Prime member. That's ok though as they are still covered by Amazon Prime.

        First, apologies if you already know this.

        Prime eligible items are items that are warehoused by Amazon. When sold, Amazon ships the item from their warehouse to the customer and handles Customer Service, returns etc. Postage is free for Prime members or on orders over $49 if you don't have Prime.

        If an item does not have prime, they are Amazon Marketplace items. They are not warehoused by Amazon, and there is no free postage for Prime members or on orders over $49. Instead, postage is as stated by the seller and may be fixed cost or free. The seller ships the item from their place of business. The seller also covers all Customer Service. They operate similarly to eBay Sellers.

        Here is an item available through Prime that is available through Marketplace sellers as well https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/offer-listing/B010TQY7A8

        As you can see the differences between these are significant. This is what I meant by; 'help members know whether the product will be sent by Amazon or a third party'.

        Even for a member without a Prime membership, people can have more confidence with Amazon Prime items as all aspects of the purchase are handled by Amazon. For Marketplace items, people should be more cautious and investigate the seller before making a purchase. There are now over 10,000 Marketplace sellers, including such retailers as Kogan.

        An overwhelming majority of deals that are posted on OzBargain are Amazon Prime.

        So we have three groups:
        1) Items that require no postage, Subscription services or Site/Category discounts (@Amazon Australia)
        2) Items that are owned by Amazon or third parties and are warehoused and shipped by Amazon (@Amazon Prime)
        3) Items that are owned by third parties, Warehoused and shipped by third parties (@Amazon Marketplace)

        A fourth group would be items from overseas which have different rules for postage, like free postage for orders over $49 for Prime members for some products (@Amazon Global)

        This is how I would write this information that appears on the Submit Deal page after entering an Amazon URL:

        Important: Please Include the Following in your Titles:

        • If this post is for an item that requires no shipping (Kindle books, Digital Downloads), is for a subscription service (Audible, Music Unlimited) or a site-wide/category discount (ie. 25% off food products), please state store as @Amazon Australia
        • If the product is Prime eligible, please state store as @Amazon Prime and include the following information in your post: 'Free postage for Amazon Prime members or with orders over $49.00 for non-members'.
        • For products that are not Prime eligible, please include postage cost in the title and state store as + $xx.xx Delivery @ Amazon Marketplace
        • If the product is to be shipped from an international location, please provide postage details and state store as @Amazon Global

        I think the above is straightforward and easy for existing members and members posting their first deal to follow.

        I included the suggestion on titles as I think it is on topic with this post. A backlash by members against Amazon posts is growing as there are more and more low-quality items being posted. And this will only increase as Amazon grows.

        Having a long phrase such as + Delivery (Free with Prime/ $49 Spend) @ Amazon draws a lot of attention, especially when repeated many times every day, making members feel that OzBargain is being 'flooded with spam'. This is why I am suggesting relieving some of that pressure by just having @Amazon Prime, for example, in titles instead. This will also bring Amazon titles in line with other deal titles on OzBargain.

        As I said previously, I think most members and visitors either already know how Amazon Prime works, or will quickly learn.

        Now, onto the issue of bad deals on Amazon itself.

        I have no issue with how performance bans currently work. But, I feel that if you want to properly tackle this problem some manual intervention may be required. Unfortunately, you can't program algorithms to tackle every problem. I am trying to suggest a way that this may be accomplished without imposing too much additional work for Moderators &/or Power users.

        I would not like to see overseas users banned, or any new user banned from posting deals. I think we should welcome any person who wants to post a deal. But, I think we also need to be able to act swiftly if they are just going to post low-quality products for inflated prices.

        For a lot of members, it's very easy to spot a bad deal and view a seller's Amazon store and see that they are unlikely to offer OzBargain a good deal on quality products in the future.

        The solution I suggested in my last comment would:

        • Allow members who are tired of these type of deals the opportunity to work towards reducing bad deals and also reduce the anger some are expressing.
        • If members have gathered all the 'evidence' for you, this should mean it would just take a few minutes to verify, reducing workload for you.
        • They would need to show that an identical item is available significantly cheaper elsewhere, this would allow you to take into account an item that costs a little bit more, but would be delivered sooner and have Amazon customer protections.
        • Prevent the need to use Sock-Puppets to post deals, & if a store is banned there would be no use for Sock-puppets.
        • And finally, pressure these sellers to provide genuine good deals for OzBargain members in the future.

        Let every seller post a deal but let's deal with any low-quality deals swiftly.

        If you would like to discuss this, it may be easier & quicker to discuss in messages than forum comments. I would be happy to provide any further information, explain anything you are not sure about or provide more examples if required.

      • Skinnerr on 30/10/2018 - 02:12

        however the current feedback is that isn't enough which is what we are trying to address and looking for suggestions.

        The problem is they are circumventing these methods with new accounts, vpns. This inturn can inhibit new users with legitimate deals. It's a tricky situation. Not gonna be helpful that they are probly in this thread already thinking of work arounds to any solutions.

  • Savas on 28/10/2018 - 00:50
    +4

    i think 2 deals with low or no votes isn't strict enough. should be after 10 minutes if it gets no votes the post deletes itself and the store is permanently banned. also i think each time the first deal for a different store is posted the deal pends until approved by a moderator regardless of whos posting, that way would prevent a lot of spam from ever going live.

    • pegaxs on 28/10/2018 - 09:13
      +4

      I think this idea would work, but maybe the time frame is a little short. Give it 30 mins to an hour.

      I have found that people are reluctant to neg vote deals. They will often comment that it’s “Cheaper elsewhere” or “issues with …” but fail to leave a negative vote. But what people will do is refrain from voting. It is almost like a passive negative vote. So, I could see a system where by after 1 hour a deal has garnered <= 1 vote, it gets flagged.

    • neil on 29/10/2018 - 16:57
      +2

      i think 2 deals with low or no votes isn't strict enough. should be after 10 minutes if it gets no votes the post deletes itself and the store is permanently banned.

      While that would eliminate many not so great deals, it may actually remove good deals depending on the time of day/day of the week it is posted, if the title/description is legible etc.

      So some recent examples:

      also i think each time the first deal for a different store is posted the deal pends until approved by a moderator regardless of whos posting, that way would prevent a lot of spam from ever going live.

      My comment on moderation queue

      • Savas on 29/10/2018 - 17:33
        +1

        are all the examples for my argument? the good deal that got an upvote within 10 minutes got over 50+ votes. meanwhile the bad deals that got upvotes just after 10 minutes like the speakers someone said for $80 the speakers are 3/10 and the DAB+ radio has an inflated "40% off RRP". those kinds of deals don't deserve to be on ozbargain.

        also i don't think thats a problem if mods take days to approve store rep deals since those deals dont have strict expiry dates anyway

        • neil on 29/10/2018 - 18:48
          +1

          are all the examples for my argument?

          I would consider deals receiving 7-14 votes to be decent deals, not a bad deal. The 74 vote deal only just made the 10 minute cut off.

          If we look at current, posting limits for all stores:

          • If the vote average across the recent rep deals is 0 or below, the domain is temporarily banned until the vote average is corrected over time.
          • If the vote average across the recent rep deals is between 0 and 3, the domain is temporarily banned for 2 weeks from the last post.
          • If the vote average across the recent rep deals is between 3 and 8, it is reduced to maximum 1 deal per week.

          I guess we interpret from that 0 or below is bad, 0-3 poor, 3-8 OK, 8-24 good, 25+ (front page) great. Curious to know what your scale for deals are?

          • Savas on 29/10/2018 - 20:04
            +1

            @neil: same scale for normal users. but if a store rep deal gets 5 votes its more likely to be spam since they are usually trying to flog junk that they have a high margin on. though you are reasonably strict with store rep deals anyway so I dont see any problems, though I dont know how much work the mods do behind the scenes.

            • neil on 29/10/2018 - 23:54
              +1

              @Savas: Well, I guess we always have to assume a rep's #1 goal is to make a sale and then post a good bargain. Whereas a normal user would just be the latter. Just to clarify, are you saying anything with 5 votes or less is a bad bargain?

              • Skinnerr on 30/10/2018 - 02:22

                @neil: People seem to be only thinking about the solutions for bad Amazon deals without factoring in ok to good Amazon deals.

                For Savas his 10 min example is way too harsh.

              • Savas on 30/10/2018 - 09:11

                @neil: that's a good way of explaining it thank you. I think anything with less than 5 votes could be fine but as you said if a rep is posting it's usually unlikely to be the cheapest but usually it still gets a few up votes. I think its hard to find a rep post with less than 5 votes that could be genuinely a good deal.

  • djkelly69 on 29/10/2018 - 19:19

    Not a solution, but something to help with enforcing the rules - how about inserting a link to the Amazon Au posting guidelines in all Amazon posts, to make it easier for users to view the rules and see if they are being complied with?

    • neil on 30/10/2018 - 00:11

      Well there are Amazon guidelines and then the general deal posting guidelines. These stores are complying with the guidelines, they just aren't posting great deals or rather the deals are not being well received by the community.

  • Elaine Chan on 29/10/2018 - 20:29
    +1

    I noticed that some deals are not real deal.Sellers just raised the price before posting the deal, and then posted the deal and saying that their products are at discount.And they still get a lot of approval votes. Can this situation be avoided?

    • neil on 30/10/2018 - 12:00

      It is known as price jacking as is frequently seen with eBay sales. It's sort of a complex issue that is probably suitable to discuss on a separate thread. However, at the end of the day, it's all about offering the best price on a product or service that the community wants. Seems the latter is the problem.

  • HighAndDry on 29/10/2018 - 21:25

    Is there a reason why third-party sellers on Amazon seems to be so much more of an issue compared to eBay sellers? I would've expected eBay sellers to be worse considering there's no official "fulfilled by eBay" option, but it seems to be far better than Amazon here.

    • Skinnerr on 30/10/2018 - 02:32

      They flood the new queue constantly with mostly crap deals. This means that good deals, Amazon or not, slip through the cracks.

      Just look at months 8,9,10 in the rep posting table at the top of the post. Or ask PJC or MJ1.

      • HighAndDry on 30/10/2018 - 02:53

        Sorry - I understand how they're bad for people seeing real deals, I'm just wondering if there's a reason Spamazon sellers as a whole are so much worse than eBay sellers when you'd expect the same issues of small eBay shops too.

        • Skinnerr on 30/10/2018 - 03:26

          Usually eBay encompasses the whole price - shipped, saving people the hassle. Also these Amazon deals are using Amazon prime as a 'deal clincher ' or sometimes straight out saying 'free shipping' when it isn't.

          They even use the excuse of stating the Amazon prime free trial in their defence of saying that's what they mean by free shipping. Not everyone has prime and it creates arguments and hostility and 9/10 they don't give a rats arse even if they get banned as they just make new accounts and circumvent moderating efforts.

          EBay is already established and sort of regulates itself and has tons of hoops to jump through and many fees. Why there is more posts here from Amazon instead of eBay you would have to ask them but I'd speculate that they get directly compensated to post here and are in general gaming the Amazon system via Ozb.

          TL;Dr - money.

    • neil on 30/10/2018 - 10:52
      +1

      eBay Guidelines:

      • Must be BIN (Buy it Now). In other words, no auctions.
      • Overseas users will not be able to post eBay deals.
      • Must have a quantity of 10 available (or close to it, moderator discretion can apply for non-rep deals).
      • Non-reps / regular users are able to post deals only if the seller is a Top Rated Seller, or if the seller has an online store domain.
      • Reps from Australia can post deals as long as they have either an ABN or are a Top Rated Seller.
      • Deals requiring coupon codes can only be posted on the day the coupon code becomes active.

      The 2 hurdles that reps would have to get over is no overseas users and being a Top Rated Seller. Now certainly blocking overseas users is something we had in place previously for Amazon deals however there is no Top Rated Seller designation on Amazon.

      • HighAndDry on 30/10/2018 - 11:06

        however there is no Top Rated Seller designation on Amazon.

        Ah… yeah okay that might be the difference maker then. Maybe re-blocking overseas sellers on Amazon might have to do, if it works for eBay. I mean - it's not as if we have a shortage of eBay deals even with that limitation.

  • deelaroo on 29/10/2018 - 23:18

    Only allow deals from Amazon store reps if they have reached a certain threshold of OzBargain participation.

    • neil on 30/10/2018 - 01:05

      What threshold do you suggest?

  • Skinnerr on 30/10/2018 - 03:06
    +2

    Rather tricky to find a solution that bars crap deals while allowing good deals from honest users using the same system the spammers are using.

    Is there any way to block deals from hours/day old users? Alot of deals are from users like such and in my experience have always been garbage. The odds of a brand new user finding some diamond in the rough deal after mere hours is incredibly low.

    Is there any way to add to the Amazon posting guidelines - what users here are already doing after a questionable Amazon deal is posted, which is asking the poster to search common competitors e.g eBay, Aliexpress, the other various Asian e-stores (gearbest, banggood) to see if it's the best price shipped without using Prime as a 'deal clincher' (not everyone has prime).

    Also PJC, MJ1 and diji1 deserve special mention as they are the users I frequently see policing these garbage deals in their own time. Just my 2 pesos.

    • neil on 31/10/2018 - 00:24

      Is there any way to block deals from hours/day old users?

      Our 3 rankings of new users are:

      L – first deal posted by the user
      P1 – began posting 2 weeks ago or less
      P2 – began posting 6 weeks ago or less

      We have a switch to block L/P platers from posting for any store.

      Is there any way to add to the Amazon posting guidelines - what users here are already doing after a questionable Amazon deal is posted, which is asking the poster to search common competitors e.g eBay, Aliexpress, the other various Asian e-stores (gearbest, banggood) to see if it's the best price shipped without using Prime as a 'deal clincher' (not everyone has prime).

      We can definitely add a line about that however many reps don't have a great grasp on English so I'm not sure of the impact. I mean if our normal English speaking users don't read the help/can't put together a legible title, include a price, then I don't hold much hope of non-English speakers. :)

  • M1lad on 30/10/2018 - 12:24

    +++++

  • samfisher5986 on 30/10/2018 - 12:49
    +1

    If you could magically ban all these users straight away, they wouldn't learn anything.

    I think shaming the store is the best way to go.

    There should be a button to suggest a cheaper price on each deal, once its submitted and approved or voted for, it should take over the previous deal and make it very clear the previous deal was bad.

    Then the vendor should get a full page notice when they login that warns them not to post deals unless its significantly cheaper then competitors, including eBay. If they don't agree, they can't post again.

    • neil on 31/10/2018 - 14:55

      There should be a button to suggest a cheaper price on each deal, once its submitted and approved or voted for, it should take over the previous deal and make it very clear the previous deal was bad.

      That is the purpose of the negative vote button. However, it gets a bit murky when you compare a product being sold and shipped from Amazon AU vs. something say being sold and shipped from AliExpress. Is a tiny savings worth a an extra month or so wait to get your product? Example from Deal listed in OP

      Also for Prime members, it's sometimes cheaper to get through Amazon if you don't have to pay for shippping. Example from Deal posted where it's cheaper to get it through eBay vs. Amazon with shipping but cheaper if you have Prime.

      Then the vendor should get a full page notice when they login that warns them not to post deals unless its significantly cheaper then competitors, including eBay. If they don't agree, they can't post again

      As Skinnerr suggested above, perhaps we'll add a line on the posting page so that they'll know this before posting.

      • samfisher5986 on 31/10/2018 - 15:30

        I think the Shipping time situation is easily solved by just leaving it up to the community.

        If everyone votes that the suggested deal is better, then they are saying the extra shipping is worth it.

        In my suggestion people would still be able to see the old deal, but it would be small and to the side.

        It also works the other way, if someone puts something on ozbargain for $50, but its $51 locally, that deal can replace it via community votes.

        As for Prime members, I don't think these should be considered deals at all, we've all had our free trials and prime really doesn't offer anything so special that the shipping is free, you pay for it in your monthly fee.

        Its different to something like free shipping for an optus customer or even a netflix customer, as these things are very widely accessible, especially when you can use a friend/family members account. Most people don't have prime.

        Basically my idea is that you suggest a better deal, it appears in a small area on the deal page and you can vote it up or down. Once it has 4 votes and no negative votes, it will replace the deal. However the the previous deal will then appear in a small box so that people can still vote, if someone then puts on 2 negative votes, the deal will revert back to the original deal.

        I hope that kind of explains it, I honestly think it will be a great feature and will get rid of a lot of incentive from anyone wanting to post things that aren't bargains.

        • neil on 31/10/2018 - 15:47

          Your idea sounds interesting but I'm wondering if just submitting a new deal with a better price, may be easier as the title, expiry, and store links all need to be populated and manual intervention required which may take a while if it's say on the weekend or an off-peak time.

          • samfisher5986 on 31/10/2018 - 16:10

            @neil: The person submitting the better deal can fill all of that in.

            But I think the problem with submitting another deal is this

            1. If the product isn't very interesting, such as some random imported china stuff, submitting another deal feels like spamming, most people just put it in the comments.

            2. Reps seem to love deals that stay on ozbargain, even if the deal gets negative votes. This is likely because of all the traffic their site gets. If the deal gets replaced early on, then all the traffic will go to the better deal as well.

            You would also hide the old deal to guests, just to reduce that traffic even more.

            The idea here is to change a bad deal from 300 clicks to the website, to maybe 15-20.

  • PJC on 30/10/2018 - 21:13
    +2

    Minimise title congestion by excluding Free Delivery options because Amazon pages adequately explain qualification. During title submission typing 'Amazon' could invoke a popup saying:-

    Amazon deal titles must exclude Free Delivery options. Your Description must include paid delivery costs. Example:-

    40% off Flopatron 2000 Deluxe $24.00 (was $40) + Delivery @ Amazon
    $24.00 + $5.99 Delivery Metro = $29.99; $24 + $7.99 Delivery non-Metro = $31.99; $24 + $9.99 Delivery remote = $33.99.

    Enhanced price transparency restores responsibility for deal quality to Reps with minimal effect on Moderators' workload and the Community continues deal scrutiny.

  • JetBombat on 31/10/2018 - 20:27

    Add a sandbox for spamazon first-timers and dark horses, promote to main page only after they proven to post quality deals.

  • Moderatorneil on 02/11/2018 - 15:25

    OK, some good discussion points and after a bit of discussion we will be implementing the following:

    • Continue moratorium on approving overseas Amazon 3rd party rep accounts.
    • Continue block on posts from overseas posters for Amazon deals.
    • Removed access to posting on already approved Amazon 3rd party rep accounts for very poorly performing stores.
    • Continue automated performance based posting bans for Amazon 3rd party stores (just like all other stores).
    • Reopen the Amazon Australia: Overseas Sellers/Reps Post Your Deals Here Thread

    We will come back in a month or so to check stats and if we need to go further and:

    • Ban L/P platers from posting Amazon 3rd party seller deals.

    Ideas that are being considered but big technical implementation:

    • Moderation queue for Amazon deals where they would need approval by mods/power users to approve.

    Other suggestions:

    • We will have a think about the best practices to display Amazon shipping/Prime/etc in the title.
  • ocoolio on 13/08/2020 - 13:00
    -1
    Merged from Tightening The Amazon Posting Guidelines for Reps

    As per the title, it would be timely to review whether cracking down on spam and advertisement posts from store reps on Amazon.

    Some examples:

    A simple suggestion: reps should receive much more upvotes on their deals to be able to post again. Getting an overall 2-5 upvotes (compared to negs) on their deals still make their deals rubbish as some people tend to upvote deals no matter what.

    Therefore, a balance of 10x should be enforced for reps: if you believe your deal is actually good (will receive at least 10 upvotes on all of their deals) then do it. If you don't reach this, then you won't be able to post again.

    This rule would filter out reps that keep posting rubbish, like:
    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/user/302363/nodes
    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/user/321291/nodes

    What do you think? Seems easy enough to implement

    • Moderatorneil on 13/08/2020 - 13:05

      Op closed the deal to prevent further neg-votes, which would have affected their ability to post more spam later

      This is incorrect. Expiring a post doesn't affect the ability to neg vote.

      All stores are affecting by posting limits. If they post poorly received deals, this will affect their ability to post future deals either on a temporary or permanent basis:

      Maximum 1 deal per 24 hours
      Maximum 2 deals per 7 days is the default, however…
      If the vote average across the recent rep deals is 0 or below, the domain is temporarily banned until the vote average is corrected over time.
      If the vote average across the recent rep deals is between 0 and 3, the domain is temporarily banned for 2 weeks from the last post.
      If the vote average across the recent rep deals is between 3 and 8, it is reduced to maximum 1 deal per week.
      If the two most recent rep deals made the front page, the limit is increased to 3 deals per week.
      If the three most recent rep deals get double the front page minimum votes or more (currently 60 votes), the limit is increased to 4 deals per week.

      and performance based bans:

      A store will be banned if deals posted by representatives continually attract a low amount of votes. The system will ban a store if:

      The 2 latest rep posts (excluding those posted before the last performance ban) are 60 days or less apart, and
      The vote average for the store's rep posts over the last 90 days is less than or equal to 1
      Note: the latest post will be allowed 24 hours to collect votes before vote averages are calculated.

      The store is temporarily banned from rep posts for 30 days from the time of the latest rep deal if the above conditions are met. Note that if a store has been banned twice, the third performance based ban is 1 year.

      All stores in related to post limits are treated universally. e.g. same limits for Amazon, eBay, Australian stores, etc.

      • plague69 on 13/08/2020 - 13:29
        +1

        You can always reward the good posts/posters more as well as punishing the bad ones if you choose so

        • Moderatorscotty on 13/08/2020 - 13:57

          Which we already do,

          • If the two most recent rep deals made the front page, the limit is increased to 3 deals per week.
          • If the three most recent rep deals get double the front page minimum votes or more (currently 60 votes), the limit is increased to 4 deals per week.

          Some reps have been able to post 3-4 deals per week.

      • ocoolio on 13/08/2020 - 14:05
        -4

        This is incorrect. Expiring a post doesn't affect the ability to neg vote.

        This incorrect is incorrect. By expiring it, it disappears from most feeds therefore most people will not see it, preventing further negative voting.

        Think before type.

        • Moderatorneil on 14/08/2020 - 10:52

          I'll just repeat, expiring a post doesn't affect the ability to cast a negative vote.

          it disappears from most feeds therefore most people will not see it, preventing further negative voting.

          By negative voting a deal, it falls below the default value of showing the deal in the new deals page so essentially poor deals won't be shown to most members. I think this is the goal that you are seeking to achieve anyway.

          • ocoolio on 14/08/2020 - 21:38
            -2

            @neil:

            poor deals won't be shown to most members. I think this is the goal that you are seeking to achieve anyway.

            It appears you lost, or never had, the ability to understand simple arguments.

            No, my goal was not to temporarily hide a deal from a crap store. No, you did not understand.

            The goal of this community is to exclude reps from posting who can't post anything that's an actual deal. I don't know how to spell this out any clearer to you.

            • spackbace on 14/08/2020 - 22:21
              +3

              @ocoolio: You really don't know how to argue a point with maturity do you? If you insist on attacking 1 of the main admin of this site, you won't instigate change as you'll just get them off-side.

              Stop being a dik and pull your head in.

              • ocoolio on 14/08/2020 - 22:43
                -3

                @spackbace: Omg did I upset their highness? And now the gods won't send any rain to our land?
                What a terrible mistake.

                Oh wait. How about we move the whole community to reddit and be done with arguing with boneheads?

                You might have forgotten: the mods and in general, this site does not generate content. The users do. But the site makes money on ads that are sold on the content generated by the users.

                Before you get upset about offending the parents, maybe get your facts straight. You know, maturity one o one.

                • spackbace on 14/08/2020 - 23:11
                  +3

                  @ocoolio:

                  boneheads

                  😂 Oh dear

                  You might have forgotten: the mods and in general, this site does not generate content. The users do.

                  Yes, and most contribute positively. Most

                  But the site makes money on ads that are sold on the content generated by the users.

                  Don't you think that if they cared about ad revenue they'd dismiss your idea from the get-go, and every other idea put forward that would result in cutting down the deal count? After all, more deals = more ads and clicks, at least according to you.

                  Or y'know, maybe they also give a shit about the site and the community?

                  Before you get upset about offending the parents, maybe get your facts straight. You know, maturity one o one.

                  Oh I'm not worried about neil getting upset. Trust me, the guy can put you in your place, if he wants to bother to put in the required effort.

                  The problem is that by arguing like a whiney child, you ruin any chance of change happening for those of us who actually know how to present a case.

                  Now, do you know how to properly argue a point or are we one comment away from "ya mumma" jokes?

                • Moderatorneil on 17/08/2020 - 15:42

                  @ocoolio: ocoolio, Sorry to hear you are upset. It seems like there is more going on than what we are discussing so have sent you a PM.

      • ocoolio on 13/08/2020 - 14:23

        Further to this, 7 votes were cast on more stringent rules, so you can't say "we already do", because there is a clear need for more restrictions.

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