Is It Time to Give up on Australia?

Would be interested to hear people's thoughts on this.

Was at an impromptu gathering of friends - a woman announced that she was moving to Texas. I was quite surprised because both of them had good incomes, kids, and were obviously having to leave a lot behind. It turns out that the husband was born in the US and was a citizen even though both of them had spent their lives there. They weren't struggling, necessarily, but they did have a large mortgage. They were worried what might happen if either of them lost their job. They would rather sell than spend their lives paying off debt. Fair enough.

Someone mentioned the health system in the US. They shrugged and said you could buy top notch health cover and still be ahead compared to Australia, when you factored in how everything else here was so much more expensive. They were already looking at buying a specific house in Austin. It looked very nice. It was 400K AUD. Everyone oohed and aahed at the picture on the phone screen and the price tag like it was a fairytale storybook.

We've seen plenty of migrant friends pack up and move back home (basically like this: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-08/why-these-immigrants-… ) - but this was the first "Aussie" couple in our peer group to decide to leave.

What was interesting was that it became apparent that just about everyone else in our peer group was thinking the same thing. Someone else said: "I have a UK passport, but its no better over there, its quite a bit worse". "My wife still has her Japanese passport, we've looked at it, houses are dirt cheap but I don't know what I would do for work." Another person even admitted that he was seriously thinking about the "spiritual values visa" being advertised by the Russian government.

There is a palpable sense of decline in Australia. I went to the Philippines recently for a couple of months with the children. I stayed in a cheap condo close to the downtown area and caught the ferry every day that left from the wet market. These were desperately poor people by Australian standards, but the children wore clean clothes and were playing with marbles and pogs between the baskets of fish, and the people were unfailingly polite and solicitous. I did not feel unsafe the entire time I was there, and my only complaint was that people were excessively polite and kept referring to me as "sir" even if I was just out walking casually in flip flops. Within two minutes of getting back to Australia, I had to usher my kids to another carriage because someone was having a mental health episode on the train. Im not blaming him, I don't think its a matter of assigning moral blame to any one person. We made a choice to have the kind of society we have.

Would be interested in whether others feel the same way.

Comments

    • Top notch public transport in se Asia ? Some places maybe not not many countries. U don’t mention which countries.

      • Taiwan. But similarly in major cities South Korea, Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, China, etc

  • +3

    Living in 3 different countries for more than 5 years each, I can say that are always pros and cons. So it depends on what are you looking for. $ vs flexibility, kid education vs learning, safety vs opportunity etc.. I have young kids and Australia is the best, at least for now. So my advice: keep options open, if you decide to go overseas for good, keep your right to work and live in Australia. Who knows your priority shifted later.
    All the best with your decision mate..

  • +4

    Everyone has an opinion.

    My opinion is if you are not exploring your options then you're doing yourself a disservice.

  • +2

    I haven’t read through all the comments but I might have a different perspective being from the UK and having lived in 3 different cities, spent 18 months living in the US and nearly a decade living in Japan along with my 10 years living in Australia (Adelaide and Brisbane).

    Irrespective of the current US political situation and the amazing time I had living in Minnesota the big issue there is retirement and health care along with as a lot of people have likely mentioned crime and safety. I’m not sure how many people on here have spent much time in major US cities but they are generally speaking a pretty shitty, dirty and unsafe compared to what we have here in Australia. In most cities outside of NYC and a few others you would not walk around in the CBD by night because they are extremely dangerous and it is super easy to end up on the wrong side of the tracks by making a wrong turn. I even got car jacked in a taxi in Philly on a busy Saturday night at 10pm. My friends who live over there are either retired and struggling or 10-20 years away from retirement and worried about their future…other than one guy who hit the jackpot by buying shares in the company he works at for 15 years before they were taken over by a big conglomerate making him a multi millionaire over night.

    While there may be more opportunities over there than here for such good results from hard work and “better” taxation it is still far from the norm and always helped by coming from a well educated and already wealthy background. It might sound a bit hyperbolic or dramatic but unless you are one of the lucky few you are on your own when you can no longer work and the odds are stacked against you as there are very few support networks suck as Medicare and the state pension as we have here.

    As the OP already mentioned Japan is out of the question unless you are fluent in the language or working for a big international bank and as far as the UK goes…it’s really taken a turn for the worse over the last few years and the average Joe is really struggling. I have friends who live in London and love it but most of them are from rich backgrounds and have been able to maintain their wealth enabling them to enjoy everything that living in a global capital city brings with it. It certainly was not the case when I last lived there 10 years ago relying on 2 salaries to pay rent in a run down 1 bed flat.

    In my experience Australia has really been the best place to live and bring up a young family, but I don’t live in Melbourne or Sydney and so my situation may be very different to many on here. I believe that it is the best balance of opportunity while still having the safety net to help out in times of need.

    • +3

      Yeah agreed. Literally every single one of those people in that article are leaving a) because of the cost of living, b) to goto a place where it is much cheaper. There was no mention of lack of services, issues with healthcare, poor governmental decisions, etc. Just money

      Of course your dollar goes further if you're in a 3rd world country. But its still a 3rd world country. If i were to take my Australian bank account and move to Sierra Leone, i could probably buy a really nice place with a butler. But i also would need to live in Sierra Leone with its problems, try to find a job that pays a better (purchasing power adjusted) salary, etc

      The grass isn't always greener

  • +1

    I have a Canadian citizenship and live here, was my escape plan if things go to $#!t here, yeah lol worthless now, Canadians are fleeing, same reason but magnitude worse than here. US, no interest, its a declining society on many fronts, pump full of guns, hate and crazy. Russia LOL, Texas GPD surpasses Russia, most Russians live in squalor and second only to Taliban run Afghanistan in terms of misery index. You have to kidnap me to get into that $#!thole country, its a mafia state.

    Traveled a bit, recently to a second world country, puts things in perspective how good we have it. Safety net here is amazing. I'm always on the lookout for a better deal but these problems are world wide. Other poster said Aus is easy mode, I totally agree. If we had a competent government things could be really good here.

  • +3

    Nope won’t consider a move to America at all. Australia is far better destination. If I had to move it would somewhere in south East Asian where the cost of living is much cheaper with good infrastructure .

  • +1

    Is It Time to Give up on Australia?

    Not before - OzBargain 18th Birthday Meetups (2024)

  • +5

    Top notch health cover is all well and good but if you have a heart attack and the ambulance takes you, unconscious, to the nearest hospital and that hospital isn't covered by your health insurance, you'll be sent a bill for $50k just for the ICU stay alone because you 'chose' an out of cover hospital. See Dr Glaucomflecken on Youtube/Twitter for his experience with this. Your friends are operating on the premise that they will never in their lives have any health issues which is a sad veil of invincibility that gets lifted for everyone at some point in their lives. The US has spends the most money for the poorest outcomes out of all the OECD countries because of the way their system is structured. It's only top notch if you're covered, their government doesn't negotiate with the drug companies like ours does, instead the drug companies 'negotiate' with the insurers. Drugs that cost $20 here, cost hundreds there. But hey, for a good chunk of their lives your friends will be fine. Until they're not. The CEO of GoFundMe has complained that they are propping up the health system over there and he's not wrong.

    Also no way in hell would I ever put my kids through school shooter training. Ever. But good luck to your friends.

  • +2

    Thailand

  • Well no matter what you say you'll be killed by guns or food in the states

  • +2

    All countries have their own problems.

    Australia is no different, but, I would say, overall, Australia is one of the best.

  • +2

    I just returned home from visiting Austin Texas. Frankly, it's a nice city and I'd move there too if I had the opportunity of a well paying job. Austin is easy to get around, has a nice river walk and parks. The people are friendly and honestly it's a nice overall city that's not over-crowded like some of Australia's big cities. Some of the housing is a bit dodgy with questionable areas so I'd wonder how nice the house is for $400k. Apart from possibly cheaper housing everything else is very expensive. Cost of living has hit USA hard and groceries are very expensive.

    • Did you shop at HEB? When you say groceries are expensive, is it in AUD, or USD?

      • Yeah shopped at HEB. Basket of salad items ended up costing $30USD. Equivalent in Australia would be $30AUD I reckon. Things like deodorants and soap were crazy expensive

        • And things like alcohol and cigarettes…..

          • @Eeples: Yeah beer is expensive and even petrol is not really cheap anymore. You would not move to USA for cost of living reasons.

            • @Brick Tamland: Just checked—it's 73¢ per liter in Texas. What you're talking about is an AUD conversion. Don't convert; they earn in USD.
              But yes, the point is, it's gotten expensive everywhere.

  • +1

    anyone who has left Australia for a 2 week holiday will tell you its pretty damn good in Australia

    • +1

      Tell that to Oz expats relaxing on a Bali beach..

      • I think they live in Sanur.

      • +1

        I feel sorry for them, they'll be back when they get sick to suck on our health system like the bogan scabs they are

      • funny how they always come back when they run out of money or to keep their pension, or get sick with a chronic or major illness

    • +1

      Depends where in society you live.

  • There are plenty of houses in oz but why do ppl only want yo live in the big cities or near the beach? Healthcare in the USA is $$$$$$$. Oh and don’t forget there are federal taxes, state taxes and local taxes too. Agree tho that is has gone downhill especially in Victoria. Too much woke nonsense destroying society.

    • -1

      Close to 60% of houses in Australia have either 1 or 2 persons in them.

      • Negged for facts.

    • probably because you want to live close to jobs, and infrastructure/shops/restaurants/hospitals etc

    • +3

      Just no.. last thing we want is some populist (profanity) promising to fix all our problems with the vibe or "to just trust me bro"

    • +4

      -1
      we don't need a trump like head of state for Australia

      • LOL, it was meant to be a joke!
        I still don't know how he got elected in the first place!

        • The same way all the previous GOP presidents who keep losing the popular vote…the electoral college and the gerrymandered districts

      • Or a Boris

    • Why do we have so many awful politicians recently ??

      • when have they not been awful?

        • It is a lot worse now than before.
          I wouldn't mind having the following back for 2025 election - Hawke, Keating, Whitlam, Howard :-)

          • +1

            @congo: Trump basically gave the world the "alternate facts/post truth" politician, where you wouldn't be held to account for saying just whatever you wanted without being held to serious account.

            And because American culture infects the UK and Australia, they got a Boris Johnson and we got a Scott Morrison who used the same playbook, also without serious (enough) pushback from the media.

          • +1

            @congo: Howard sold the future to fund the present, and we're all paying for it now. Hawke was decent though.

            • +1

              @Jolakot: How so?
              Howard got rid of guns, I give him credit for that.

              • @congo: Here's the big 5 for me:
                1. Committed us to the Iraq War (how many billions of dollars and lives ruined?)
                2. Stuffed up housing affordability with mass immigration policies and capital gains concessions
                3. He introduced Private Health Insurance (look it up), and starved Medicare, leaving us with this messy 2-tier system that costs a fortune for nothing
                4. He introduced the GST, and then never followed through with reducing other taxes
                5. Sold out Telstra and the National Energy Grid

                The economy was great, but we're all paying for it now.

                • +1

                  @Jolakot: Yes good points.
                  I hated the GST and Private Health Insurance.
                  Kind of forgot a time where we didn't have GST.

    • +1

      Turnbull got knived. Electing him made sense. Dutton's coup certainly did not

      • Turnbull only cared about Turnbull. Do give him credit for the win at the 2016 election against Bill Shorten, as Shorten would have been an awful PM. Dutton didn’t replace Turnbull, but Morrison, and Turnbull deserved it after he knifed Abbott.

  • -6

    I gave up on Australia when Australia gave up on me.
    Realising my Aussie passport was worth less than toilet paper during the Covid hysteria was a real wake-up call.
    Can't see myself ever moving back.

    • +7

      So where did u go instead

  • Australia is probably the best country on earth to live….and i used to be the sceptic v Scandanavian countries…..The reason, a great health care system and a relatively inexpensive education system and the fact that its an island. The reason, immigration is causing the Scandanavian countries to move to the far right extremist parties, both parties in contrast to whats happening overseas are more middle ground and decent. Sure house prices are too high but there are suburbs that are afordable. We also have the NDIS which is the envy of the world. If something doesnt go to plan in your life you want to be in Australia not a 'its up to you' country.

    • agreed, although NDIS funding is great idea in principal but practically unfortunately very inefficient and currently undergoing an overhaul with significant wastage and rort by providers to make a buck, with providers maximising payouts to divert to their providers and getting a cut, money spent on business class flights for overseas holidays, sex workers etc. Not at all opposed to disability funding but greater governance is needed to avoid wasting tax payer's money

      • -3

        The ndis is just another scam bucket just like the previous labor scam bucket pink batts and lnp scam bucket the private VET system which was a buy yourself a visa whilst enriching the dodgy operators

        Even childcare subsidies have their dodgy actors

        The net is too loose and the scope is to large and unable to be properly audited and managed

  • +3

    Funny people blame immigration straight away because they think just because they are qualified, and do some professional job, australia doesnt need any immigrants.

    Immigrants have contributed the society and economy clearly. Australia's system is set to make people stay for as long as possible without giving them pr. How fair is that? People can stay here for 10 years pay more than 150k in taxes maybe and get nothing in return.

    • -3

      Unless your aboriginal, you're an immigrant - im looking at you far right Nazi (profanity) in Victoria

      /Thread re immigrants

      But…. We need a system where we pick and choose the immigrants we want - highly skilled, deep pockets to invest in Australia, students studying needed skills (no pathway to direct perm residency via studying only however)

      We don't need to collect low skilled immigrants who will just be a drain on our social services, that's counter productive

      • +6

        Hate that argument. Aboriginal people did not invent or created the country of Australia that we live in now. That is a country that was created and invented by the British with all its infrastructure, rules and economy. So by that very definition British people are the first people of Australia along with the aboriginal people that were already here.

      • +4

        aboriginal people built, invented, discovered, explored nothing in the 40,000 years. they didn't even build a (profanity) basic boat to sail away and discover an island nearby or something. it seems like it would have been like that for the next 40,000 years all the same if the British didn't come over. so your argument is invalid if you arent politically correct. I'm not being politically correct my man. don't fear to speak your mind. don't be afraid of being cancelled.

    • Obviously you stayed because you got paid more or the lifestyle here was better than where you were already at? So you know there's that. Getting a temporary visa isn't an invitation to PR, that's why it's called a temporary visa.

      • Getting a temporary visa in an invitation to pr.

        • https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/working-in-australia/t…

          Don't see anywhere there where it says a temp visa is guaranteed PR. A pathway is not the same. You still have to meet the criteria.

          • @Blargman2001: lol. stop bullshitting dude.

            • @baldur: Lol stop embarrassing yourself dude and read the immigration website.

              • @Blargman2001: Dude you dont know the whole process, people study here to become a permanent resident, along the way they get temporary visa. But system is designed to keep them here as long as possible without giving pr.

                Instead of reading it with straight mind, try to understand people's motives and have some analytical thinking. You dont need to send me links and saying look this is the definition of temporary visa. Lol. Whats your iq? 85?

                • +1

                  @baldur: People's motives have no bearing on whether they're eligible for PR mate. It's obvious you're the one not smart enough to understand because you're trying to hide your ignorance by accusing people who know how the process works of being dumb instead. If you'd understood it you would have left by now when you realised you couldn't get PR. Immigration legislation is law and the law in Australia is read with a straight mind. This isn't some developing country where the laws are negotiable. The website list every single criteria you need to meet, if it says you have to meet this criteria and you don't, you don't get PR, that's how immigration law works here. Even my 85 IQ can understand that but you seem to struggle.

                  • @Blargman2001: What is the purpose of temporary visa? Staying here for 4-5 years and pay lots of taxes without getting nothing in return and suddenly leaving Australia?

                    Nobody does this for this purpose dude. And obviously law wouldnt say any temporary visa holder will become a pr surely.

                    Dont be naive, you are already a racist.

                    • -1

                      @baldur: You just basically invalidated 40000 years of Aboriginal history about four post up. The evidence of who's more racist is clear. Mate, you're the naive one for believing that a temporary visa = an entitlement for a permanent visa. You haven't presented any argument that makes sense to anyone who knows the system and all you've come up with is playing the victim and name calling. At this point in time I'm wondering if you are even capable of any self reflection or real critical thinking because it's obvious you have no idea. Good luck with your visa and thanks for the $150k in taxes. I'm sure it'll come in handy for the government.

                  • @Blargman2001: why would anybody want a temporary visa? cant you even comprehend this?

                    • @baldur: You can't seem to comprehend that not everyone has the same very limited, self centred point of view as yours. Read the comments in this post. Lots of Australia haters and people looking to move away. Some people just want to come here, make some money and go home. The immigration department isn't set up to hand out PR, it's set up to serve Australia's needs. They set the bar for who they let in. If people don't make the cut for a permanent visa I don't see why Australia should lower it's standards to let them in.

    • 'get nothing in return'?

      You get to work here and earn more than you possibly could in the 3rd World country you're from for 10 years. PR is not a right for temporary workers but a privilege. There are far too many PR visas issued every year and the number should be reduced to well under 100k - as it was not that long ago.

      • Lol. Yeah they should have worked for free because they are in a first world country.

        Check this out:

        https://amp.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/13/canada…

        It is the same for Australia.

        • If you're not happy with the visa setup here, you're more than welcome to take your services elsewhere - benefitting both you and Australia.

          Temporary or permanent residence in Australia is a privilege not a right.

  • +3

    Me and my wife is planning to move to US just waiting for our Nursing registration. Both of us are Managers here at Health sector earning 300k+ ish at our early 30s with Two little kids. Going to US, she can stay at home full-time and I can earn same on what we are getting both here. Plus our families live there. Sydney is not for us, great city but so boring. We want to watch NBA, baseball, NFL and etc. O well, we do what we have to do. Australia is great for retirement for sure.

    • Nursing get 300k pa in the States?

      • Getting offer from 170-220k USD for Managerial position. So yeah, around that value, enough for my wife to enjoy washing the dishes at home 7 days a week. Will bargain as we get closer as I have 9 years experience now for the same role.

      • No not 300k but the comment is totally on point. In any in demand occupation living in the US is better than living in Australia. I know many who made the move and you instantly earn more money so about 100k USD if you work decent hours with all the OT you usually do and thats for a low key position thats not very strenuous. If you were to specialise as lets say a Nurse practitioner you would earn a lot more depending on the city/state you live in. Housing in a lot of those places you could live in as a nurse practitioner are much safer and cheaper than living in some regional township thats equivalent in Australia. House and the actual property is huge in comparison to the shoebox parcel of land you get here for crazy money.
        If you are in a medical/tech/teaching profession it's a total no brainer you instantly earn 30% percent more AND its USD not AUD while housing is substantially cheaper for example a 3/4 bedroom house with a huge lot in a lot of nice and safe suburbs in Arizona are basically half of any house you could find in Adelaide. Health insurance is a thousand times better as well if you are in a skilled position. Medicare is total crap and even private insurance is nowhere near on the same e; level of care you get in the US. Australians just love to dismiss the facts saying there are a to of guns and politics but on a day to day basis Ive never heard of any of that while live there for a decade.

        • What you described there is summarized simply as

          "if you are useful to the late stage capitalist machine that America is, your fine….if not, good luck sucker"

        • sounds like it's a great move for you and the family, all the best with the relocation
          I do have friends in tech who are making 3x in compo with significantly more scope for career progression in the US and moving is a no brainer, however the polarised and divided society puts me off, at least here we can all bond over our mutual disdain for politicians whereas it's a bit of a cult in the US whichever way you lean. that and I do not ever want to put my kids through school shooters drill or check the news in panic at the next school shooting headline

        • +1

          It's nearly impossible to have qualifications recognised in the US as a doctor. Hopefully easier for nurses.
          Also, based on friends who work in the US as doctors, the balance between life and work in Australia is much better. People there work a lot more and don't have the same amount of leave and benefits. The rates here are getting behind, and actually ridiculous in the public sector, but it's definitely not a "no brainier" for doctors as many doctors are still moving from the US and Europe to Australia, even if they eventually give up trying to get into the system and go back.

  • +2

    If you are in an in demand occupation be that in health/tech/teaching etc. living in the United States is 100% better than living in Australia RIGHT NOW. If you asked me 10 years ago I might say it would be different but with the recent insane increase in cost of living and almost no movement in wages in that same period it's not even a competition. You can live in a literal mansion in comparison to what you can get in some crapshoot neighbourhood in Brisbane or Adelaide and you salary would be 30% higher and in USD and even more depending what you do. If you exclude California, NY, and some other high COL states/cities you can get extremely cheap housing in comparison to income with huge lots and much better build overall. Health insurance is substantially better Medicare wouldn't be able to compare to the very basic health insurance you get for almost free (with a little deductible) with those skilled occupations. GP visits are 30 minutes not 3 minutes and you get thoroughly checked without having to argue and fight and there are NO waiting times for any sort of treatments/surgeries or accessing specialist doctors. It's always been the same week for me if not next day or same day depending on the issue.
    All this gun talk and politics is just on TV it never impacted me in any way. It's the same as seeing assisinations in western sydney on TV. it happens all the time but Id never move there or see it in real life. Never had any gun violence or crime issue in 10 years living there but you move to Darwin/Rockhampton/Melbourne and you'll be confronted with crime/burglaries or have your car stolen possibly very quickly. It's the same everywhere in the world.

    Currently living in the United States is substantially better IF you have a skilled occupation thats transferrable. If you don't you can't move anyway and Australia's welfare state is probably better for you.

    • +1

      this.

  • -1

    if you can perform your profession in the us, it is a no brainer that you will have a much better standard of living in the states. from groceries to car, from electronics to clothing, from fuels to housing. it is not even a comparison.

    • better standard of living in the states

      oxymoron - it's not a safe place

      • -3

        It's substantially safer than many places in Australia. This kind of comment usually comes from people who have never actually lived in the states and just read headlines here thinking they know everything. The US is a huge place and many places are more dangerous than Australia but many are also much safer than your average suburb in Melbourne/Sydney/Brisbane. I know many people who have their 1m+ AUD houses broken into in the middle of the night, car stolen crashed and that multiple times a week on the same street. Police never caught the offenders to this day… I have never heard about this sort of stuff for 10 years in a medium sized city in Arizona. Completely unheard of. Please stop the generalisation, you dont know the subject matter at hand.

        • Please stop the generalisation, you dont know the subject matter at hand.

          what are you talking about? I've travelled to the USA over 10 times

      • -2

        If you were to compare Alice Springs with Chicago and ones subjective feeling of safety on a day to day going to the shops etc Id pick Chicago any day. But thats not politically correct to compare isn't it.

        • +1

          Chicago, the murder capital of…the entire world.
          Where you get shot for wearing a red or blue shirt in the wrong suburb.

          Compared to some minors committing B&E , still not ideal but if you'd prefer to die over that. up and move.

  • Texas… Russia

    Your friends sound like cookers TBH

  • As someone who has lived in southern state USA, Northeastern USA and South East Asia; Australia (in my case Melbourne) might not be perfect but it is the best of many other countries bar none. From healthcare, to the (lack) of guns, the low crime rates (one of my friend commented the crime must be low if you report a home invasion in the front page), the somewhat egalitarian education (the private school system here has nothing in terms of the divide between the private public in US or SEA).

    Don't get me started on what is wrong with Texas, unless you are not planning on raising a family.

  • main advantage of being based in the states is the ability to visit a wide variety of places plus you have Canada to explore. here there are really just five major cities. plus you get easy access to nba, nhl etc. here only got to watch nba players at marvel stadium, luckily they refunded us.

    • Living there (US) short term and going on many road trips looks like fun. Plenty of different towns and sights to explore.
      But I wouldn't want to move there permanently.

  • +2

    Who wouldn't want to move to a place where kids need to go through metal detectors at school. The probably will amplify as 3d printing gets more prevalent and the psychopath shooters decided to 3d print weapons for concealment…

  • +1

    usa is a sh*t hole. People that want Australia to be more like usa are welcome to leave and move back to us…

    It’s sad when geopolitically usa already influences even controls every aspect of Australian government and various departments. Last thing we need is people starting to propagate the idea Aus is lost cause when it’s usa that is the declining super power threatened by China and is absolutely hypocritical in every aspect of its society, values and international dealings.

    Keep Australia Australia.

  • +1

    The sad state of the building industry thanks to spoilt, overpriced cowboys and the impotent regulators (like the VBA) have a lot to do with these frustrations around housing. Nobody wants to build new > low supply > inflated pricing…

  • Well, I have not been lucky like some of you, to have lived in the US to compare but I surely love Australia and people here.

    Why isn’t anyone comparing life here with UK?

  • Example of why older people get grumpy (I'm older, but not super old now):

    I used to watch 'Undercover Boss' as a kid, and thought it was really cool how the bosses went out of their way to reward the 'good' workers.
    This is propaganda working. You should think about whether you're drinking any kool-aid as well.

    Now re-watching as an adult (with better emotional AI: i.e. BS meter / objectivity / empathy) on youtube, I was shocked how these 'good' workers were exploited for months/years & they were merely 'lucky' that their bosses made the show. Imagine the other 99.999% of lower class workers still getting exploited. They have an economy of sweatshops in the US! No wonder the rich have it so good over there!

    Some of the rewards on the show too were $%#! however (although I admit some were good though): E.g. a stupidly cheap holiday & 2 weeks off work for what was effectively 6+ months of underpayment.
    There was a common theme to some of the sob-stories: Workers or relatives were bankrupt cos some family member had cancer & they had to take out a loan for the medical bills (usually over $100K USD) . Some of the best bosses paid off the medical bills tho (phew), but some of the odd ones didn't.
    I remember someone being made 50% partner of the cookie store, but he worked his arse off for 5 years 'running-the-entire-store' & showed the franchise owner why his store was profitable when 1/3 of the franchisers stores were losing money. This was all whilst making something like $5/hour whilst raising kids? $#@! that, without the show he would've still been slaving away.

    A lot will watch this show thinking how great it is the CEOs are policing their own staff & rewarding 'hard' workers… (propaganda working).

    Aussie adults (I hope) will watch this show and realise how 'effed' up the lower class is in the US and how thankful I am for our minimum wage & unions (corruption-aside).

    I am glad that for my child & grandchildren that it's much harder to end up on the streets here in AU. They may not be able to afford a property in a capital city or buy luxury goods, but if they keep their ego in check & be creative they can live a comfortable life here (do not confuse luxury with comfortable).

  • I am no longer really in a position to be able to relocate to another country as we need to be near family for health reasons but the last 18 months I have been finding Australia a completely uninspiring place to live and work. It is a good country but we are so small and insignificant IMO, all the good jobs and companies etc are overseas. 4 of the top 6 companies by market cap in Australia are banks, one is a mining company and the other is CSL and im not even sure what category to call that, Biotech? I dunno, sometimes think my kid would be better growing up in another country that may be able to provide more opportunities than what we have here.

  • Australia is a dump. I hate this country. I just came here for the money, but that doesn’t even exist now. This country has no culture, is way too arrogant, and the food here is expensive and tasteless. Living in this country is an absolute waste of a life. Aussies have glass hearts and get offended too easily (I got blocked on Facebook for saying their beaches are not nice). They have no sense of community (look what happened during COVID). The country is extremely underdeveloped for the population size. Domestic travel is too expensive.

    Aussies are obsessed with the foot fetish sporting thingy, and that’s all they talk about.

    My advice: just leave. Get out. Make your money and go. Don’t waste your life here. The education system is far behind Europe. I question if the kids here even go to school. All the skilled immigrants are taking the jobs, which I can’t blame them for. This country is on its ass; it always has been, but now people are realizing it more than ever. It was a tool to make money, but not anymore.

    I left and am never coming back. The grass is greener.

    • +1

      Please share where you've moved to in case any of us feel compelled to share insightful comments on your choice. Why are you lurking on OzBargain?

      • i had the same question looking at a number of posters that reports to have 'left australia and never coming back'

      • Still my home page when i open up chrome actually i haven't changed it over and this post caught my eye. I moved to Edinburgh, i understand not everyone happy place but its the right place for me.

        • This might just be from the perspective of a tourist, but when I was visiting Scotland they seemed even more into Rugby and sports than Australians are. Frankly it seemed like the worst parts of Australian culture, but definitely far richer in culture and history

        • Edinburgh is a nice city and probably a great place to live. So is of Australia (most of it anyway, apart from Sydney and Melbourne).

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