Is It Time to Give up on Australia?

Would be interested to hear people's thoughts on this.

Was at an impromptu gathering of friends - a woman announced that she was moving to Texas. I was quite surprised because both of them had good incomes, kids, and were obviously having to leave a lot behind. It turns out that the husband was born in the US and was a citizen even though both of them had spent their lives there. They weren't struggling, necessarily, but they did have a large mortgage. They were worried what might happen if either of them lost their job. They would rather sell than spend their lives paying off debt. Fair enough.

Someone mentioned the health system in the US. They shrugged and said you could buy top notch health cover and still be ahead compared to Australia, when you factored in how everything else here was so much more expensive. They were already looking at buying a specific house in Austin. It looked very nice. It was 400K AUD. Everyone oohed and aahed at the picture on the phone screen and the price tag like it was a fairytale storybook.

We've seen plenty of migrant friends pack up and move back home (basically like this: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-08/why-these-immigrants-… ) - but this was the first "Aussie" couple in our peer group to decide to leave.

What was interesting was that it became apparent that just about everyone else in our peer group was thinking the same thing. Someone else said: "I have a UK passport, but its no better over there, its quite a bit worse". "My wife still has her Japanese passport, we've looked at it, houses are dirt cheap but I don't know what I would do for work." Another person even admitted that he was seriously thinking about the "spiritual values visa" being advertised by the Russian government.

There is a palpable sense of decline in Australia. I went to the Philippines recently for a couple of months with the children. I stayed in a cheap condo close to the downtown area and caught the ferry every day that left from the wet market. These were desperately poor people by Australian standards, but the children wore clean clothes and were playing with marbles and pogs between the baskets of fish, and the people were unfailingly polite and solicitous. I did not feel unsafe the entire time I was there, and my only complaint was that people were excessively polite and kept referring to me as "sir" even if I was just out walking casually in flip flops. Within two minutes of getting back to Australia, I had to usher my kids to another carriage because someone was having a mental health episode on the train. Im not blaming him, I don't think its a matter of assigning moral blame to any one person. We made a choice to have the kind of society we have.

Would be interested in whether others feel the same way.

Comments

    • +17

      You earn 9K a month after tax… and "cant make a progress". You probably need to look at your life style

    • +1

      I was very lucky to land a great graduate role in tech on ~150k

      Well done, and good work on actually realising how much luck plays a role in gaining graduate employment. Lots of people around here have such large egos think that they somehow landed good salaries without luck being a factor at all.

      I am happy to be brain drain. If enough other people also talk with their feet and leave then maybe the system here will change for the better.

      Sadly I don't know if that will be the case. The country is deteriorating now and the effects slowly creep upwards in socioeconomic terms. It's already affected the lower class (i.e. the most vulnerable first) and the middle class is also feeling it. By the time it reaches the 1% of the upper class (i.e. the billionaires and people who control this country) it'll be too far gone. Politicians don't understand that to build great nations you need to constantly work, our system of government that changes constantly and is filled with bickering (mainly to push ideological agendas) doesn't work.

  • +11

    Yes, I feel the same way.
    I'm 31, wife is 29 and we've just had our first child. We're renting, locked out of the property market. I have enough for a deposit but see the market as inflated/leveraged and don't want to sign up for some ridiculous 30 year mortgage. I'm earning a good wage and my wife doesn't have to work, while its enough to put away $1-2k a month and I'm grateful for the position I'm in, we're just coasting.
    The cost of living here is astronomical, I have 0 faith in the political elite who on both sides are just there for self-enrichment that they have the will to correct it in any way. Career politicians are a cancer.

    I was working in the UK for half of last year and things aren't much better there. The price of a typical inner city London townhouse is about the same as Melbourne, somewhat less than Sydney so wrap you brain around that one.
    Where would we go? South-East Asia appeals as I've spent some time there, my wife is also from Malaysia and you can have a good quality of life for quite cheap. Also certain countries in Europe you can do the same. My job is in IT so I have the potential luxury of being a digital nomad, how realistic this is though I'm not sure.
    There are also countries in Europe like Hungary or Portugal. Hell even Germany has a much lower cost of living and affordable housing while being a few hours drive away from France. I had colleagues from Germany stay here for extended periods of time and they were stunned at the cost of everything here, saying that they flat out couldn't afford to live here.

    Basically life in Australia no longer feels like its worth it. If you earn a good wage you get taken for an absolute ride with the cost of everything and taxes, and for what? Do you get an opportunity to build wealth through hard work? No. The standard of living has dropped to such a degree that people are looking elsewhere. Of course the government imports people thinking this is the land of milk and honey to work in our cafe's until they realise they can't afford it either.
    It's a sad decline of what once was the lucky country, which has now become the stupid country.

    • "Do you get an opportunity to build wealth through hard work?"

      Ecxatly that.

    • +2

      I have a lot of friends who moved here thinking the grass is greener. They had good job and stability back home, but ended up working mostly in retail setting or holding multiple jobs to make end meets. Many wonder why they are even here, but they also said that they can't go back and start over again.

  • +11

    I'd understand if you said you are moving to Malaysia or Philippines. But Texas? There's literally nothing that Texas has over Australia except cheap housing, and can I tell you it's cheap for a reason.

    A regional town like Orange in NSW would be leaps and bounds better than TX that's around the same price

    • +5

      Pros and cons to living anywhere

      Texas is huge and diverse, you simply can't compare the whole state to a country or town.

      Phillipines is a 3rd world country. Kuala Lumpur is dirty and polluted.

      • +1

        Texas is huge and diverse, you simply can't compare the whole state to a country or tow

        yes, likewise with Malaysia/Philippines..
        parts of TX definitely feels like a third world country..

        • +4

          parts of TX definitely feels like a third world country

          True of many cities in America, it's scary how things change a few streets over from the good areas.

  • +9

    Born and grew up in Africa……never going back!

    • -1

      South Africa? Been back in 2019. Beautiful country, people were mostly helpful. Standards are pretty low with things like litter and made Australia look like a miracle.

    • +2

      Same boat as you but before Australia I lived in England and there’s vast difference between there and here. Sadly I’ve noticed a decline in Australia especially in terms of the cost of everything. It was great when we first moved but no matter how hard I work it’s still tough.

    • me too!

  • +6

    My landlord is selling the house and using the money to buy a staffed mansion in Vietnam. So I supposed he agrees with you…

    • The problem is ur money goes much further in Vietnam than i imagine Texas.

  • +13

    I regularly go to the US for work and have done so for the last 20-30 years. If you want to see decline then the US is the place to be, I have never seen it worse, The amount of homeless and destitute people and squaller in the cities is insane. There are some nice and safe areas but they are getting few and far between and you pay for those safe areas.

    Austin for instance while one of the nicer areas, still has a crime rate 3 times higher than Sydney and Texas is one of the worst in the country.

  • +7

    I am currently debating this.
    I have been in OZ for 13 years, and I think I don't want to be here anymore.

    I am now on a 5 year plan to move back home.

    I don't feel like I belong here, and the life got so expensive that the sacrifices (family, friends, good doctors, good food) are no longer worth it stability, security and good money. Since you can't save enough money even as everything is so pricey.

    • +3

      Same here I lived here for 13 years and sold everything to move back to my home country, but I couldn’t find a job there. I ended up returning to Australia and found work again, though it feels exhausting. Now I'm planning to move to the US next year.

      • +1

        My job allows me to take 1 year break, and I plan to use that for my advantage to try for year settle back home if doesn't work, i will return.

        I would just rent out my place so I have somewhere to stay if (when) return.

        It may be that I am just thinking the grass is greener elsewhere, but I want to give it a try.

        • +1

          Definitely worth the try and 1 year is a good gauge to see if you can assmilate back. Plus you have 5 years, plenty of things can happen.

  • +21

    Everyone in the Philippines was nice to you because you were the Gringo with the dolaridoos. That aside, Australia feels like a complete different country than it was 15-20 years ago. Not in a better way unfortunately. Also, the planet Earth feels a lot different in the same time frame, also not in a better way.

    • +6

      The death of nationalism and the rise of hating everything that makes this nation great is killing it

      • +3

        rise of hating everything that makes this nation great

        Serious question… What are these things? Mining?

        • -1

          Freedom of thought and speech

          • +1

            @OzzyOzbourne: Since when do we hate freedom of thought and free speech?

            I know that we are against these IF they are considered hateful to others and cause damage etc. (…all of which would be considered 'un-Australian')

          • +1

            @OzzyOzbourne: Sounds like two things in particular are probably impacting your experience.

            • Sky News Australia (and their broader platform)
            • Listening to other people complain about COVID actions that made this one of the safest places on earth which has reinforced those negative voices in many people's minds
    • +1

      Also, the planet Earth feels a lot different in the same time frame, also not in a better way.

      It's because we're collectively starting to see and feel the affects of overshoot now. We have literally hit the peak of civilisation and there are not enough resources for everyone so competition for those resources has grown. One example are jobs; a resource humans require to survive is money, which is obtained by working a job. People in other countries move here because they can't get a job in their own country. More people here = employer's market = wage suppression.

      On top of that, climate change is worsening which will force people to migrate, there have been crop failures globally yet capitalism is still marching full steam ahead. People who are concerned about the climate expect corporations and governments to somehow magically transition away from fossil fuels despite fossil fuels being the bedrock of our entire civilisation. Most people who (supposedly) give a stuff about the climate aren't even willing to move to a vegetarian (or vegan) diet or cycle to the shops five minutes away instead of driving.

  • +5

    Where we get to live is an accident of birth. I've always felt grateful and privileged to be born, raised and living here. For those less fortunate, I'm sympathetic to your struggle and how challenging the quest for a better home must be. If you dislike Australia then godspeed, keep looking. I do hope you can find a country that will welcome you and suit you better.

  • +10

    Fact of the matter is, people want to come here, the states, canada, europe.

    No one wants to go to asian countries. There're also reasons why people from these exact countries want to leave aswell.

    But we have it so good, that the grass seems greener on the other side…

    Hell, live for your kids, will be literal hell. School and tuition after tuition. They likely won't survive the intensity.

    I think people need to be more grateful of what they have. We also have the culture of wanting more (greed) and doing less.

    Also, im not discounting the issues we have here. Everyplace has issues, but our issues arent really that big of a deal compared to elsewhere

    • +2

      Fact of the matter is, people want to come here, the states, canada, europe. No one wants to go to asian countries.

      This is a huge generalisation and frankly ignorant… But if you don't know exactly, this is the conclusion you would get.

      There is heaps of migration within Asia for instance, heaps of inflow into the developed liberal democratic Asian countries from places that are less developed or without much rights. Lots of Chinese and SE Asians flow into South Korea and Japan for example.

      Also does Russia count as Europe? If so, heaps of Russian immigrants (or asylum seekers) in these countries as well, along with their former Soviet compatriots.

      (…though nowhere near the number of immigrants into our country. And we have immigrants from everywhere, not just Asia (…and if we say Asia, it's essentially Indians and Chinese and Filipinos), we are truly awesome at the end of the day and everyone wants to live here)

    • There's actually reverse immigration happening at the moment to Asian countries due to cost of living.
      A lot of Asian countries are nomad and digital hubs.
      Client in Japan says a lot of her clients are enquiring about moving to Japan and I am one of them.
      Rent, going out, access, culture, lifestyle etc… Life's too short to stay in one place paying through your nose to keep your head afloat.

  • -3

    As a Canadian that has moved to Australia. Australia is a bit of a right wing shit hole you guys should really work on that, but America is so much worse. 0/10 not even for Silicon Valley tech salaries would I move my family there.

    That said if housing wasn't so expensive back home I also wouldn't consider the piss poor excuse for a health care or school system that's here acceptable by any means. Its so much fun paying all the taxes and then also paying $10k per year for school and $4k+ for health care which still doesn't seem to cover jack shit.

    • +11

      The left wing canada isnt doing much better either. The housing is even more expensive. Even a $hithole place
      like brampton has 3 bedroom houses approaching a million dollars.

    • +12

      Lol Oz right wing and I heard people wanting to leave Oz because Oz if too left to wing.

      This is jsut crazy. It's all individual perception.

      To me Oz is no way right wing at all lol more on the left i say.

    • +1

      Delusional take. What did the Don say.. "Everything woke turns to s#!t" and thats exactly what this thread is about. Australia is turning into a shithole.

      • +1

        Australia is turning into a shithole.

        Was looking for this without the 'find in page search' - kaboom!

        I knew I wouldn't be the first to post it.

        • +9

          Someone had to say it 🤷

          730k migrants last year, its time to stop.

          • +4

            @jpworlds: Migration thing I agree with but intake has been too high even with the liberals in power for previous decade… And the liberals have done nothing about housing. Hmm I wonder why… 🙄

            I just agree with the Australia is a shit hole in general for various factors other than migration and woke sh*t.

            • +1

              @cobknob:

              I just agree with the Australia is a shit hole in general for various factors other than migration and woke sh*t.

              An exploding population certainly lends itself to many of the issues we see now. People living on the streets, higher prices for everything (due to higher demand as a result of more people), deteriorating roads etc. It's like people want to destroy this country.

      • +4

        There's nothing left wing left about Australia. What exactly is "woke" that has had a material impact on your daily life? I can name right wing policies all day that have made life here abjectly worse. What do you have?

        America is much the same. Everything "bad" happening over there is a direct result of ring wing conservative policies but somehow the people have been conned into thinking "wokeness" is the problem.

        Wokeness didn't make housing unaffordable in Australia, right wing policies did. Wokeness hasn't jacked up our cost of living, privatizing essential services and letting the private sector get away with murder has.

        • -1

          Well, I don't think that "left and right" is useful for thinking about policy issues tbh. In degrees, both labour and liberal are pro immigration, pro housing as an investment vehicle, and pro global trade liberalisation. You could make an argument from both left and right for or against these.

          Regarding wokeness, I think the problem is that it very visible and tries to establish a new cultural paradigm, which is not supported by everyone. For example, welcome to country in meetings and kids school assembly, jobs being carved out for women only which destroys arguments of merit, teaching of transgenderism and the chemical castration of children (without consent from parents), teaching of explicit sexual material to young children, constant pushes from activists across all parts of life, etc.

          I am against all these things, yet every day at work, at my kids school, on television I am assailed by it. So yes, it has a impact on my daily life.

          • @meowbert:

            chemical castration of children (without consent from parents), teaching of explicit sexual material to young children, constant pushes from activists across all parts of life, etc.

            I am against all these things, yet every day at work, at my kids school, on television I am assailed by it. So yes, it has a impact on my daily life.

            Sounds like you have trouble distinguishing fact from right wing culture war bullshit.

            • @cashews: Sounds like you don't have children or a job and don't actually know what happens in schools or the workplace.

    • Aren't Canadian houses also built a lot better than houses here, i.e. properly insulated? People pay huge amounts for houses here and they're built like crap. Then they have to pay interest over 30 years, a $1m home can end up being $1.7m after interest and that doesn't include any maintenance costs, council rates, insurance etc.

      • +1

        Every migrant I've spoken to coming from Europe and even from NZ made the same comment about the Australian cardboard houses built by greedy arseholes.

        • New houses in NZ are no better, maybe even worse.

    • +5

      We're mildly right-wing and small c conservative. If you want to talk about shitholes, look at left-wing Canada under Justin Trudeau - that's working out well eh! My best friend from school lives in British Columbia and he's constantly complaining about how bad the health system is there. He runs his own business and says state and federal taxes are killing it.

      • +3

        Taxes are roughly the same in both countries, slightly lower here but no so much you'd notice. Though, after you stump out for private health and private school you'll be behind here. Overall the health care system in Australia and the school system are both privatized horror shows. Both systems in Canada are heaps better then what you'll get in Oz.

        Its easy to complain about the one system you know, but I've lived through both and am happy to report that in my anecdotal opinion the Australian versions sucks. Also, just for giggles power prices back home in BC are about 1/4 to 1/5th of what you'll pay in SA. Turns out maybe privatizing all of these essential services wasn't in the citizens best interest.

  • +22

    I love when people go to places like Japan, Philippines, Thailand etc and are like omg the people there are so kind, clean and thoughtful and everyone in Australia is so rude and selfish.. People in Asian countries like that are taught from a young age to be respectful and the government have strict rules to teach children and adults to act this proper way.

    If any government here tried that we would all cry a about communism and government over reach and loss of our freedums.

    • Yes, they are just being Asia in their own country. Nothing special.

    • +1

      If any government here tried that we would all cry a about communism and government over reach and loss of our freedums.

      And call the person who suggested it a snowflake

    • +2

      Westerners trying to take advantage of easy kindness after already taking all the cheap forced labour in Asia

  • +1

    The grass is always greener.

  • +12

    The UK, Australia and New Zealand

    Are seeing a large exodus of young professional and technically skilled workers most to nations like USA, UAE, Singapore etc

    Salaries for skilled people in Australia are low and tax are far to high the brackets are way to low.

    We have a system in which those who pay a lot of tax get almost nothing for it ie you pay more childcare to subsidies others, you have to pay for PHI or subsides others etc

    Wealthier professionals have had enough the more left we lean the more people look for different nations

    I know few people that have jumped to the UAE making double what they made here paying essentially no income tax

    The rent is high but the life style is pretty amazing as long as you are respectful of the rules and they are savings enough money to set themselves up for life

    You simply cant do that here anymore without being born into wealth or winning the lotto

    The issue is the nation is becoming more and more socialist and heading the wrong way. The system is set up to support the bottom 5% and to protect the top 1%

    Between money thrown @

    1st nations, NDIS, social housing, social services, overly generous pensions, overly generous tax cuts for those who are wealthy etc

    The average higher income earner can essentially pay loads of tax next to zero benefit and thus you cannot blame them for thinking there has to be a better deal

    • We have a system in which those who pay a lot of tax get almost nothing for it ie you pay more childcare to subsidies others, you have to pay for PHI or subsides others etc

      that's true for the middle class almost everywhere unfortunately

      Salaries for killed people in Australia are low and tax are far to high

      not a bad deal to draw a salary for the dead!

      • +1

        Skilled*

        As for the other part it isnt just the middle class it is anyone paying tax that isn't in the top wealth bracket

        If anything high income earners are f—ked over the most assuming they are not wealthy

        • -1

          that encompasses all middle class including lawyers and surgeons on 1m a year.. upper class really refers to the super wealthy

          • +6

            @May4th:

            that encompasses all middle class including lawyers and surgeons on 1m a year.. upper class really refers to the super wealthy

            The media and the hard left label anyone in the top tax bracket as 'the rich'

            Australia NZ and Canada are the only 3 countries (developed nations) you can be in the top tax bracket and still be struggling to survive

            We have it backwards in this state i blame the Greens and ABC for its war in 'rich people' because all they do is make itn ard for working class people - they refuse to discuss wealth but bend over thrashing income

            Ie the Greens opposed stage 1 2 and 3 tax cuts

            The ABC acted as though someone earning 200k is mega rich instead of reporting that if brackets were indexed our top bracket would be almost 300k pa thus younger ppl are being screwed

            You almlst never hear them report on the wealth gap and how you can get a pension and live in a 40m dollar house

            • @Trying2SaveABuck: yes because those are your political donors and have the accountants to creatively "minimise tax"

          • +1

            @May4th: Wow. Talk about out of touch with reality. The “rich” deserve to be mocked if they think lawyers and surgeons on 1m a year are middle class.

            • +1

              @Inertia-g: I'm not saying those on 1m a year aren't filthy rich, but they are salaried and do not earn a living without working and pay the most tax - close to 50% - the upper class and actual rich who dodge the most tax would sneer at those incomes

        • +4

          Yeap got f'd over with the stage 3 tax cuts. The system here is equity over equality. The harder you work, the more string alongs you carry via centrlink.

    • +2

      'Salaries for skilled people in Australia are low'

      Eh? I work in electrical engineering design in Western Australia and salaries here are among the highest in the Western world for people with my skillset. Sure, you could probably earn more in the Middle East, but that's a muslim shithole (and I'm including Dubai in that). In my gig, if you want a Western lifestyle with a good income to pay for it, Australia is the place to be. Texas is another place with a similar setup and would also be a good place to live.

      • -7

        Calls Dubai a shithole whilst working in Western Australia tell me you are an clueless without telling me

        For the record i like Perth it is under-rated but 98% of WA is the definition of a shithole their is a reason people fly in and out of that state

        Now to address the rest of your incoherant rambing.

        Well done, but you my friend are the execption not the rule. I know engineers in Melbourne lucky to be hitting over 150k with a decade of experience.

        I'll add this your probably making 200-300k pa (I'm guessing im probably overestimating) I know people earning 1.1m doing the same job in Dubai if you had the semblance of skill to get an offer like that you would be out of here so fast you wouldn't look back

        Just so you know I wouldn't live in some shit hole mining town for most of my life for 300k pa I probably would for 500k for a few years but your post reeks of 'this is my situation-ism'

    • -1

      ^This guy has made the only plausible point for what the OP is trying to highlight.

      • -1

        Once again exeption not the rule

        Unfortunately the internet seems to struggle to understand this concept

  • +15

    Having lived in a few countries and visited many more, Australia is one of the best countries in the world to live in. The many people i hear complaining all the time are the ones who havent been anywhere else.
    Texas? The fact that more than half of them are stupid enough to vote for a lying, cheating criminal to be their president is enough to put me off (besides the religiosity, narrow-mindedness and intolerance)

    • +5

      And california must be heaven - affordable housing, no crime etc etc

    • -2

      half of them are stupid enough to vote for a lying, cheating criminal… enough to put me off (besides the religiosity, narrow-mindedness and intolerance)

      Sounds like narrow-mindedness and intolerance! Time to look in the mirror. We also have people stupid enough to upvote your irrational hate. Bet you don’t scrutinise our leaders - at all. Ask yourself why that is. Truth is we are just as propagandised as North Koreans. Only difference is they know they are.

      • -3

        He watches too much MSDNC.. room temperature IQ moment. Trump 2024

        • +1

          Thank you for preparing us for your room temperature IQ moment.

    • Me too. Love the country but it's so boring here.
      Great to bring up a family but for a couple or single, I would strongly consider Asian.
      Actual fact I'll be moving to Asia in December.

  • +1

    Australia but where. A household income of $200k in Adelaide is very different from Sydney.

    If their household income is less than $250k in Sydney, they are surviving, not living. Its not worth spending years of their lives clinging on the daily struggle that will never end.

    • +1

      Adelaide resident here. If you earn over 250k as an individual or couple here. Even post covid with housing increasing. I doubt many other states or countries would be able to match the relaxed lifestyle Adelaide brings. Only negative you might find is the lack of direct flights to overseas holiday destinations and the odd big concert missing us. But that is slowly changing

    • +3

      If their household income is less than $250k in Sydney, they are surviving, not living

      How do you define living?

      I'm asking because we are in Sydney and less than $250k, as are most people here probably.

      Life can always be better. But we are ok. I wonder what we are missing out on…

      • I highly doubt that. Name one type of professional with say 5 years of experience earning less than $80k.

        $250k household income may sound much but really it means 3 people with full time job average earning ~$83k. If its standard husband and wife, no external help whatsoever, I say each much earn around $125k to be comfortable.

        Most people here instead have family support. If your entire household earn less than $250k and you find yourself comfortable, I bet you have family support, or benefit from some sort of asset of somebody else. How else will you afford your mortgage?

        Living in my book =

        Being able to put forward a deposit within 5 years of saving, minimal family suppport
        Not being mortgage stressed after the deposit
        Can choose to have <2 kids if they want to

        • I feel like you're being a bit of a pessimist and bashing Sydney based on lies and propaganda. Probably a Melbournian for sure.

          Name one type of professional with say 5 years of experience earning less than $80k.

          Um… Plenty of occupations can have lower salaries than $80k even with 5 years of experience. Paper-run. McDonalds, labourer etc.

          I say each much earn around $125k to be comfortable.

          Plenty of couples earning less than that, for sure. They are surviving, and somehow living their life as well. Sure, no overseas holidays, no weekly trip to the movies, no walk down the road to Bondi or Manly, no this and that…. but they are still in Sydney. Not Melbourne. And can still be happy. Earning more could probably make their lives easier, but is no guarantee.

          Being able to put forward a deposit within 5 years of saving, minimal family support

          In Sydney, this is probably unrealistic unless you are on a very high income. You have to accept that sometimes you will have to live with your parents a bit longer than what we are 'supposed to' do (i.e. leave at 18) to save up for a deposit. But this won't mean that your life in Sydney is not living; you can still live your life… or keep telling themselves that (Source: yours truly)

          Not being mortgage stressed after the deposit

          Isn't it the norm to be stressed? - This is why we work, and isn't Sydney-specific.

      • I wonder what we are missing out on…

        bragging rights on whirlpool and ozb, clearly

        • Pls kindly explain to me how that is bragging. Just trying to educate myself here.

          • @ripesashimi: the joke is everyone on ozb / whirpool is on a 300k+ wicket, it was a response to smartProverble

  • +8

    Good luck with your health if you're a woman in Texas.

  • -1

    Been here over 30 years and being an immigrant, the day to day experience here have never really made Aus 100% home. The last 10 years have probably been the worst for Aussies who dont look white or dont subscribe to right leaning rhetoric. If not for family, i would probably try Denmark or maybe Vietnam. If you were rocking solo, having a job lined up will make the sea change so much easier. Too bad i have a family to look after…

    • +1

      Too bad i have a family to look after…

      Lmao!

  • -1

    There is a reason why your cutlery does not include a knife when you eat in the Phillipines.

    I can certainly see how the price of housing might make other countries more desirable.

    There is a palpable sense of decline in Australia.

    That’s a pretty big statement.

    In my opinion countries are heterogeneous (lumpy) containing better off areas and poor areas, with areas in decline and areas rebuilding. And so saying a country is this or that doesn’t make much sense (to me).

  • +4

    I went to the Philippines recently for a couple of months

    Two whole months? Bless. I love this "I was a tourist here for five minutes, and now I have deep insights into the inner social and economic workings of the country" mindset.

    One word: pagpag.

  • +1

    This is a grass is greener on the other side story. Let them move where they want but don't kid yourself into believing one place is better than another. If it truly was then the property values would go up there too. You think people are idiots and wouldn't move to the cheapest, best place if they could?

  • -1

    US is going downward, not the best time moving to US. Even China is better than US at the moment.

  • +1

    Sure some people agree with your friend. But majority says otherwise. Please see raw stats at:
    https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/overseas…

    Key statistics
    Overseas migration 2022-23 – net annual gain of 518,000 people
    Migrant arrivals increased 73% to 737,000 from 427,000 arrivals a year ago
    Largest group of migrant arrivals was temporary visa holders with 554,000 people
    Migrant departures decreased 2% to 219,000 from 223,000 departures a year ago.

    That tells me many more people want to come here than leave.

    • +2

      How about demographic comparison? Who are these people who want to come here and from where?

      • +1

        That would be insightful but how would that support the OPs case?

        Here's what you're looking for, the top 10 sources of immigrants.

        India
        People’s Republic of China
        Philippines
        Nepal
        United Kingdom
        New Zealand
        Vietnam
        South Africa
        Pakistan
        Sri Lanka

        https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/research-and-statistics/stati…

        • +1

          See people can come here from many of those countries listed, make a fuk ton and go back home and live like kings and queens haha 😂

          .. And this is what f**ks the employment system here - VISAs! People in oz can't get sustainable incomes to get ahead from the bottom, cause Muppets running business can get workers for cheap.

          • +1

            @cobknob: So the only way these immigrants can make a "fuk ton" while being on "cheap" labour is if they work harder than your typical "people in Oz". I reckon these immigrants have been the primary reason why your coffee is still 5 bucks and your ubereats got delivered last night.

            • @FlyingMiffy: No. No. And No. - see this is a problem in society, you read something and read it the way you want.

              people can come here from many of those countries listed, make a fuk ton and go back home and live like kings and queens

              This is a complete statement and it needs to be read like that. The money they make here is worth way more than their own wage in their own country, hence when they go back they're better off.

              while being on "cheap" labour is if they work harder than your typical "people in Oz"

              If your measuring their work ethic against their wage well I need to see stats on that lol. A general comparison on visa immigrants working harder to the current Australian cultural mix I'm definitely not judging that - since we would definitely need to go by age, race, hours/week - and this still may not be an accurate representation of how hard someone works.

              why your coffee is still 5 bucks and your ubereats got delivered last night.

              I don't drink coffee or use Ubereats. People really gotta stop making so many assumptions and thinking they're right cause they're wrong!

          • +1

            @cobknob: without these 'workers for cheap' your coffee would be $12 and your ubereast would be 2x what it is. inflation would be through the roof and your mortgage rate would be in the double digits making housing even further out of reach
            if international students who barely speak english and with a network of 0 contacts in the whole country is beating you to a job maybe you should be looking introspectively for the problem

            • +1

              @May4th: That's what the government wants 😂

              Import thousands of people to suppress wages and keep businesses profits through the roof.

            • @May4th:

              your coffee would be $12 and your ubereast would be 2x what it is.

              Like I said I don't drink coffee and don't use Ubereats.

              if international students who barely speak english and with a network of 0 contacts in the whole country is beating you to a job maybe you should be looking introspectively for the problem

              Maybe you should think before you post. They would have network contacts to find work within the VISA system. And it's got nothing todo with beating me to a job. If a business is looking for VISA employment they do so because they don't wanna pay more for a worker:
              1. They don't give a shit who they hire
              2. They are looking for slave labour cheap workers
              3. They leverage these workers against the work required or they threaten their VISA status - this has been done to death over the news for the past decade..

              Does that sound like a fair system to you?

            • @May4th:

              your coffee would be $12 and your ubereast would be 2x what it is.

              Like I said I don't drink coffee and don't use Ubereats.

              if international students who barely speak english and with a network of 0 contacts in the whole country is beating you to a job maybe you should be looking introspectively for the problem

              Maybe you should think before you post. They would have network contacts to find work within the VISA system. And it's got nothing todo with beating me to a job. If a business is looking for VISA employment they do so because they don't wanna pay more for a worker:
              1. They don't give a shit who they hire
              2. They are looking for slave labour cheap workers
              3. They leverage these workers against the work required or they threaten their VISA status - this has been done to death over the news for the past decade..

              Does that sound like a fair system to you?

              • @cobknob: yeah it's not all about you is it.
                i'm not sure what point you're making but it sure isn't what I was talking about so let's just get on with our day

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