Is It Time to Give up on Australia?

Would be interested to hear people's thoughts on this.

Was at an impromptu gathering of friends - a woman announced that she was moving to Texas. I was quite surprised because both of them had good incomes, kids, and were obviously having to leave a lot behind. It turns out that the husband was born in the US and was a citizen even though both of them had spent their lives there. They weren't struggling, necessarily, but they did have a large mortgage. They were worried what might happen if either of them lost their job. They would rather sell than spend their lives paying off debt. Fair enough.

Someone mentioned the health system in the US. They shrugged and said you could buy top notch health cover and still be ahead compared to Australia, when you factored in how everything else here was so much more expensive. They were already looking at buying a specific house in Austin. It looked very nice. It was 400K AUD. Everyone oohed and aahed at the picture on the phone screen and the price tag like it was a fairytale storybook.

We've seen plenty of migrant friends pack up and move back home (basically like this: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-08/why-these-immigrants-… ) - but this was the first "Aussie" couple in our peer group to decide to leave.

What was interesting was that it became apparent that just about everyone else in our peer group was thinking the same thing. Someone else said: "I have a UK passport, but its no better over there, its quite a bit worse". "My wife still has her Japanese passport, we've looked at it, houses are dirt cheap but I don't know what I would do for work." Another person even admitted that he was seriously thinking about the "spiritual values visa" being advertised by the Russian government.

There is a palpable sense of decline in Australia. I went to the Philippines recently for a couple of months with the children. I stayed in a cheap condo close to the downtown area and caught the ferry every day that left from the wet market. These were desperately poor people by Australian standards, but the children wore clean clothes and were playing with marbles and pogs between the baskets of fish, and the people were unfailingly polite and solicitous. I did not feel unsafe the entire time I was there, and my only complaint was that people were excessively polite and kept referring to me as "sir" even if I was just out walking casually in flip flops. Within two minutes of getting back to Australia, I had to usher my kids to another carriage because someone was having a mental health episode on the train. Im not blaming him, I don't think its a matter of assigning moral blame to any one person. We made a choice to have the kind of society we have.

Would be interested in whether others feel the same way.

Comments

    • I’m looking to do this for a couple of months only, but my thoughts was to do it digital nomad style. For me providing telehealth services to Australia to keep income coming in and renting out our house in Australia to keep the whole exercise economically viable. But this could be accounting, consulting or anything that can be provided completely online. I’ve met Australians in Japan running tourism businesses, mostly snow related. There’s people who’ve bought ski in/out accommodation and then run it primarily Australian tourists but also for the local market for summer mountain and country side activities.

      • Oh thats actually a pretty great idea. I would totally do this for like 6 months just to see how it works out and howd I feel just sorta moving my life to a different country. The only thing i put against Japan is that right now the economy sucks, but if im getting Aus pay than that might be fine. But also I always felt like Japan was enjoyable and fun because i was a tourist rather than someone whos there to live and do work.

        • There’s a newish visa specifically for this https://www.japan.travel/en/ca/news/digital-nomad-visa/ it’s then just lining up the right type of work at home. I agree it would be cool to stay for a bit rather than just be a tourist. Great benefit is it’s only 1hr time difference, so very viable to work normal Australian hours remotely.

    • roaming the streets at night and having idle chit chat with random people

      Why would anyone do this?

      And why do you feel unsafe here?

      • Sometimes id leave my airbnb at like 10pm and just want to explore a touch, get some snacks. I ended up asking a random person on the street what place he recommended for curry, and we just ended up talking about how I found Japan, how i learned it, how Australia is, stuff like that.

        Id say i started feeling more unsafe, maybe its because its a neighbourhood problem, but i had a guy rob my garage. Nothing major, just some shirts that was lying around, but the same week he came back and started surveilling the house. We managed to catch him in the act, confront him and scare him a bit and ive never seen him ever again. Im reasonably on good terms with my neighbour. We say hi, give each other a nod, thats sorta it. But one day he just mentions to me oh ive had someone try to break into my car while I was sitting in it. Luckily it was locked and everything. So idk, the amount of crime thats happening on my doorstep is just more frequent than it used to be.

  • +6

    Australia is the most boring country I have ever lived and I have lived in 6 countries totalling 20 years……………

    Yet Australia is the one most feels like home………….go figure!

  • What kind of Australian calls thongs flip flops?

    • +5

      Ones like me that came from overseas where things are called flip flops and not a word for underwear.

  • -1

    And the second something goes wrong they’re screaming at the Australian government to bring them “home”. Has everyone forgotten about Covid and the stampede of people returning to Australia.

  • +5

    I've never felt more alone in my life as when I moved and lived here. It could just be a normal immigrant experience, but I can't help but notice how 'unfriendly' or rather unapproachable people are in Aus. Back in Indonesia where I was born, everyone generally feels a bit more warm and genuine. I can't help but feel that people here are just being 'nice' for the sake of it. When we say "how are you" here, no one gives a (profanity) how you actually feel.

    • +8

      Western culture tends to be more individualistic. Eastern cultures are much more communal

      • +3

        Its not western culture. That change is recent. Australia used to be like that. Still is especially in the country. Changes to immigration patterns and people not wanting to make an effort are the issue.

      • +7

        Yeah I literally said the same thing at one point. There is a lot more togetherness in Eastern culture. I really dislike the individualistic culture here, friendships never go deep, you never talk about anything sensitive to anyone because they actually put their guards up for that stuff. When I was feeling like shit some of my friends would avoid me and only come back when I feel better, while I actively ask how they feel and ask them to tell me their stories when it's the other way around. It doesn't feel like these people have your back. You go through life with the bad and the good and they only want to be around you for the good stuff.

        I've had a friend who told me that most of her friends actually ghosted her when she told them she has terminal cancer. She told me that she felt like crying when I show some compassion. She thought that I was going to ghost her too.

        This is one of the big reasons (other than income and aging parents) why I really wanna move back to Indonesia. The second that I get a decent income in Indonesia (which probably is gonna be never at this point) I'd probably leave the country.

    • +8

      I feel this too.

      Australians are so friendly it says… Australians are party friends, up for drinks and talking crap.

      • +8

        I feel this as a born white Australian.

        Gotten to the point where no friends and no community is better for my mental health than dealing with the 'typical' Aussie's idea of being 'social'.

        • +1

          I felt this during the 2011 London riots. Young Sikh men stood outside the Sikh community keeping the rioters out. This was replicated across much of the city with different communities.

          Of course, no white person even considered this. Sweeping up the shards of broken glass afterward was about as community-minded as we could bring ourselves to be.

      • +2

        Anglo culture in a nutshell - a mile wide and an inch deep.

        In Asia, you're not a local unless you're born and raised. It takes a while to be accepted but its more meaningful when you cross that threshold.

    • +3

      20+ years ago it used to be genuine. If you go to country towns you can still get it.

    • +3

      It's not that they don't give a fk, it's that they don't want to get involved/risk offending someone due societies temporary transition through sensitivity politics.

    • +1

      My neighbour asked me how I was yesterday. I started telling her what was going on, she changed the topic about a minute into the convo. This is someone I somewhat consider a friend lol I don't think people in general cared all that much about anyone, hence the mental health issues on the rise. The exception being those who are paid professionals in the service industry, but they are trained to do so. I am doing a course in community services, and most of the contents are actually common sense — like do not get short with someone who has memory problems and how to be inclusive and treat people the way they want to be treated. The plus side is I can probably pass it easily, I guess.

  • +1

    Funny how Australia is in decline but immigrants are still flooding in like it’s raining gold here.

    Sure our government and politicians are as bright as a stick but Australia still better than most countries out there

    • +4

      Grass is always greener.

      OP knows all the issues Australia has but goes to the phillipines for a week, sees a smiling child and thinks "wow they have the perfect life"

      I almost think it's a troll post because it's that delusional

    • Funny how Australia is in decline but immigrants are still flooding in like it’s raining gold here.

      You realise those two things aren't mutually exclusive right?

      If you lived in Nepal and your friends moved to Australia and raved about it because houses have plumbing would you not also start to think it was some sort of magical fairytale land?

      Conversely, if someone has lived here their entire life and has seen how the country has changed over decades (as opposed to immigrants who may have only seen it change over a few years), why is their opinion invalid? If anything the opinion of someone who has lived here their entire life should be held to higher regard than someone who has only seen Australia in movies and TV shows and has only lived here a fraction of their life, or is that somehow illogical?

    • +1

      And that's the problem. Smashing us with immigration and the government let's our living standards decline.

      I can't imagine what Australia is going to be like in 20 years..like the UK maybe.

  • +10

    Main issues in Australia from my POV:

    • housing affordability- obviously house prices are flat out stupid. A lot more housing needs to be built and unfortunately a lot of this will need to be units. Given what’s happened with a lot of these in Sydney the bar has to be raised in building standards and quality so they are a) comfortable/desirable to live in b) don’t fall down

    • increasingly two tier education system public vs private schools. Australia is very odd in this way and what I’ve noticed in QLD but I believe it’s the same elsewhere is that even local public schools vary greatly in terms of what they offer and so people are enrolling in schools further from where they live. University costs have also blown out, so there’s whole segments of society who won’t even consider university education.

    • sustainability or the health system. Again two tier, but the private system still costing the tax payer a lot. We have an amazing health system, however the cost to run it is enormous, and there’s still people sitting on insane public waiting lists. Our expectations of our health system is also very high, with us having far greater access to specialists and lower out of pocket costs than most other countries.

    • public transport. Needs to be significant investment both in cities and regional areas as well as things like long distance high speed trains.

    • our economy needs to mature beyond just digging stuff out of the ground. Agriculture shouldn’t be ignored, food security is going to be an issue in the future.

    There’s lots of other things that bug me, like the creep of US culture wars into our discourse (we don’t need this bs in Australia and should get back our live and let live nature). But even with those issues above, Australia offers a great quality life compared to many countries. The problem with leaving is that it’s quite costly to come back. You can’t even access Medicare automatically on return if you’ve been working overseas and not paying tax and haven’t had a residential address in Australia. Given the volatility in the world, I think most Australians are best off keeping a foot in the country at least.

    • Most rich Chinese have their foot in another country and realistically it’s not a very free society.

    • Europe is uncomfortably close to Russia and the Middle East

    • other than Canada the American countries are far too violent and Canada has the same issues we do,

    • Africa will come good one day, but it’s a long time coming,

    • the pacific islands aren’t too bad but rising sea level and access to health care are issues

    • most of Asia is pretty good, but the work culture seems intense

    • The problem with leaving is that it’s quite costly to come back.

      What do you mean?

      • +2

        If you haven’t been participating in the Australian economy, depending on where you’ve been, buying back in may be unattainable. For example, if you set up in Bali, you buy a place there live the good life, your property appreciates in value but for some reason you now want/need to live in Australia, buying back into Australia is likely to be completely unattainable. However if you’d bought an Australian investment property whilst you were in Bali, and invested in shares or whatever (something that appreciates), you may well be able to afford to come back. However most people who look to do this lifestyle change are opting out of buying a place in Australia due to the costs, so they’d have a tough time moving back.

        In terms of taxes on your return, if you remain an Australian citizen for tax purposes, you need to keep paying taxes whilst you’re overseas. If you don’t then there are taxes to access Australian services like Medicare on your return. https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-and-families/coming-to-au… It’s quite complicated so people are best to have a long term strategy with the option to return. If you want to buy private health insurance after 40 or 50 for example, it’s more expensive than if you started in your 20s. The problem is many don’t plan ahead. I’ve had friends do this who are shocked at the cost of reestablishing themselves in Australia after living overseas, even coming from the UK or US.

  • +1

    Healthcare is in decline since Covid and can't see it improving any time. As long you don't need ongoing medical treatment everything else can be managed. As a migrant, the idea of moving back closer to elderly parents, family seems to be everyone's mind. Easy said that done when you have kids.

    • As a migrant, the idea of moving back closer to elderly parents, family seems to be everyone's mind.

      People should think about this kind of thing before they leave. Good thing in Australia we have parent visas so people can bring over their elderly parents who need healthcare.

      • +2

        Current wait time for parental visa is 12 years.

      • Not all parents want to move here though. Most have a much happier life where they are, friends, family, restaurants, etc. Healthcare is useless if they aren't enjoying their lives.

  • +7

    There is a palpable sense of decline in Australia.

    Is there? Seems to basically come down to three things for you. House prices, tweakers on trains and being called "Sir" while in flip flops.

    If you want that, maybe try moving out of a capital city first and see if you like it. But most people who write this stuff are snobbish about that. They'd rather contemplate moving across the world somewhere and adopt a completely different set of problems then make minor changes.

    I guess "I'm moving to Wagga Wagga!" doesn't have the same impact as saying "I'm moving to Austin, Texas!"

    • +3

      if you really want to leave the country without the fanfare just move to tassie and no one will ever hear from or talk about you again

  • +12

    I've spent about 8 weeks over two trips the past 12 months in the USA and while it's been a great travel destination I don't think I can think of a worse place to live tbh…

    My friends there want to get out, most people living pay check to pay check, fresh fruit and veg is INSANELY expensive (like 2-3x Australia) fast food is cheap, but loaded with stuff that'll make you shit your pants, religion and overly patriotic nutters are very in your face and inescapable and it's the only place I've ever had culture shock out of 60 countries when walking through an area laiden with homelessness/fentynal a lot of which need urgent medical attention and unable to get it (litterally saw someone with gangrene and could see their bone).

    Tldr: (profanity) living there, your friends are insane lol.

    • -1

      Whereabouts? Saying US is like saying Europe with no specifics.

      Are we talking about the Californian Exodus? I mean, Ive had multiple friends move in that, one went to Tennessee, one to Alabama and one to Texas.

      Clearly Americans are finding some parts of the US more comfortable than others. It may seem bizarre to many, but owning a house with a white picket fence in a low crime town and going to church on Sundays is perfectly reasonable.

      • +2

        It may seem bizarre to many, but owning a house with a white picket fence in a low crime town and going to church on Sundays is perfectly reasonable.

        All the while in the back of your mind you don't know if you are about to get robbed at gun point at the convenience store or maybe someone might go crazy with an automatic weapon and shoot up your kids school.

        • That, fundamentally, is a weak argument by non Americans who don't understand the US landscape.

          Just a quick look at Nashville (population of 600,000+) -

          https://www.nashville.gov/departments/police/data-dashboard/…

          This week's total reported crimes - 778.

          Having a look at the whole of TN - population of 7m

          https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/tn/crime

          You have a greater chance of being murdered but less chance of being raped. I'm sure someone can compare the per 1000 stats.

          Looking at SA (SAPOL don't break it down to Adelaide specifically, only state or p/c) so the state has around 1.8m people.

          July 24 - total offences against both person and property - 9086. Let's divide that by 4 - 2271.5 a week average

          https://www.police.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/131…

          Now, Tennesse is nowhere near the safest place in the US, but to keep on pulling out the 'think of the children and think of the guns' card, is just lazy when realistically, we're no better. SA, this rolling year, has had 20 murders (that's down on last year) and 2371 sexual assaults (also down on the year prior).

          Strangely, as a woman, I'm not walking the streets thinking I'll be raped or murdered.

            • -1

              @May4th: Hardly. I clearly stated you're more likely to be murdered in TN than here but looking at the stats, Ive got a 4:1 greater chance of being sexually assaulted.

              This isnt a gun debate. Its a why move to somewhere else discussion.

              Clearly, many, many people (330m conservatively) in the US think it's better than where they came from.

              Having taught students from Central America, hearing of them having 'police' shoot their relatives in their homes for not paying extortion money, perhaps it's all relative?

              • +1
              • +1

                @Benoffie: well Nashville is rated as one of the most violent crime ridden areas of the US, It is also worth noting they believe sexual assault there is severely under reported.

  • +8

    OP has quite the group of friends.

    Watch Financial Audit with Caleb Hammer on Youtube. Anyone who lives in the Austin Texas area complains how expensive rent and life in general is. When looking at housing over there, don't forget the land tax. And health insurance. One medical emergency and you're bankrupt.

    Japan seems attractive. Nice cheap housing, culture, developed economy, everything is good… except the country's economy has been in a slow decline for decades and if you live outside the major cities the entire country is aging and literally disappearing. You'll also need to know Japanese to work and fit in.

    And Russia? Oh dear, where do I start. The friend contemplating a 'spiritual visa' is welcome to leave. I just hope the Australian government doesn't let them back in once they discover Putin's Utopia doesn't exist.

    • I feel like these friends aren’t very close. He refers to one as ‘a woman’ instead of ‘one of my friends’.

  • -7

    Vote Greens (or some other social democratic party) if you want to change Australia into a fairer society
    The two major parties are corrupt imitations of each other

    • +1

      Vote Greens to avoid corruption and gain fairness? 🤣🤣

      • Yes exactly

    • +5

      Greens have no idea what they stand for these days reading all the green candidates for my local council election they are either Labour Lite or 100% focused on global matters they can have little impact on.

      • I agree with what you're saying, but the other candidates aren't impressive either.

        I honestly don't know how to pick, they are all crap.

        • They also seem to copy each other but with a side of personal agenda…

      • Sounds like they do have an idea of what they stand for then

        • I forgot to add that they also completely flip on these ideals

    • -3

      Vote greens if you have the mental capacity of a 7 year old. In fact, scratch that, even my 7 year old knows money doesn't grow on trees.

      • you realise that the greens would legalise cannabis and tax the shit out of shit, generating billions for our economy, right? or are you just an lnp shill?

        • -3

          you mean completely destroying our economy, right? but I guess at least druggies will be better off.

        • +2

          Lol "uR an LnP sHiLl!!!!". No.

          Wow, looks like they've really thought everything through, taxing legalised weed will solve all our problems.

        • billions? from pot?

          can I check your maths on that?

          • @larndis: sure bro

            The best cost estimates we have from the Parliamentary Budget Office suggest initial prices will be around $13 a gram, a price that is not dissimilar from current street price in many places.
            The good news is that even with a cannabis sales tax and GST the price per gram steadily declines as the scheme operates, down to around $7 a gram after 5 years.
            Even with these low costs, a 15% tax rate would deliver a total of $28 billion over 9 years, and a 25% tax would deliver over $36 billion. This is money we can invest in health, education and other public services.

            https://greens.org.au/legalise-it

            The report can be found here: https://greens.org.au/sites/default/files/2023-08/Legalising…

            Looking forward to seeing your report proving the numbers false.

            • +2

              @belongsinforums: Well, no one can really prove an estimate to be wrong, we would need to go ahead and implement their proposal and see what revenue was raised, to know whether the estimates were right or wrong.

              If you read the list of assumptions in the costing document, it's pretty extensive. It's unlikely these would all pan out to be 100% accurate. Also, the costing only provides estimates for the standard four years; it's not clear where the Greens got the 9 year figures they are quoting but they are significantly inflated from the PBO figures.

              I don't personally have any issue with legalising and taxing cannabis, but a couple of billion a year in extra revenue is not going to cover a fraction of their spending proposals.

              • @larndis: you're right. taxing goods doesn't work. if only other countries legalised cannabis. imagine if we taxed other drugs like alcohol and tobacco. then we would know if it works!

                • -1

                  @belongsinforums: umm, what? Sounds like you didn't understand my response, sorry if it was too technical for you. Here is the link to the costing if it helps.

                  I won't get into the details but in summary, for a very wide range of reasons, the vast majority (i.e. all) government expenditure and revenue estimates turn out to be wrong, some by a significant margin and some by much less. Because they are estimates, it's right there in the name. This seems to trip up a lot of people though.

                  Happy to discuss specific assumptions for this costing and how they are or aren't informed by similar taxes either here or in other countries, where should we start?

            • @belongsinforums: Even $36b would not scratch the surface of the many greens insane spedning proposals. The greens are the only people that can make the lnp and labor look like financials geniuses

              • @gromit: which part of their proposals do you think is 'insane'?

                • +1

                  @belongsinforums: Their dole/ubi to begin with.

                • +2

                  @belongsinforums: $36b over 10 years doesn't even cover half the cost of a single year of their UBI/living wage policy, let alone the $300b from their housing policy or the $100's of billions of their mining policies. So yeah I can see how that $36b over a decade vs the trillion plus in spending is going to magically fix our economy.

      • +1

        More like: Want to feel like you're making a difference to society, but don't want to actually put in any effort? Vote Greens!

        • -1

          Well it's a good start and better than nothing

          • +1

            @mike6969:

            Well it's a good start and better than nothing

            Literally the opposite of the Green's MO

    • -1

      Oh Mike you were sooo close. But unfortunately you win the dumbest take for today.

    • bOFE SIDES R DA SAME jesus brain-dead take

  • +3

    Funny, people who thinks they need to moved out of Oz and then willing to accept all the crap at their destination countries.

    But in Oz they are not willing to give up anything still aim for the fairytale of big land big house and big cars.

  • +2

    The problem is not Australia uniquely.

    The problem is that the world is full of idiots, to quote TV doctor John Becker.

    America has become so politically divided that is becoming ungovernable. Australia is being run ineffectually. Britain is even worse. Somehow we have all elected fools to govern us. Large parts of Europe are voting for the far-right because they consider the mainstream parties have failed them. Ditto India. What parts of the Middle East that aren't at war are run by dictators. China is run by dictators, and they are losing grip of the capitalist monster they created.

    Humankind isn't any smarter than it was when it came down out of the trees in Africa. But it has created huge amounts of technological power and a hugely complex inter-connected society. It has basically reached and passed the limit of what its intellectual capability means it can manage.

    Humankind was a mistake that nature will have to correct somehow. A species that was smart enough to have language, which meant it could accumulate knowledge, and the power that comes with it, from one generation to the next, but not smart enough to use that knowledge wisely. It has just used it to fill then overfill the planet with the members of its species.

    Maybe our own AI will save us from ourselves. Maybe it will find a way to do it kindly. Maybe it will have to be very cruel to our children's children.

  • +1

    Lol Texas and Russia? Are you friends with twitter bots op?

  • +12

    Australia has one of the largest housing and consumer debt of any countries. Businesses can't afford staff, rent and utilities anymore (especially power the foundation of a modern economy) and most people purchase online now, killing retail. Our welfare system has turned from a safety net into a comfortable hammock for millions, especially with schemes like NDIS which are been rorted for billions every year. Our defense force is now a woke joke. In one of the wealthiest and privileged countries on earth, whole generations see themselves as victims of a million different things and escape into social media like electronic crack. Government are clamping down with new totalitarian misinformation laws. Hundreds of thousands of new immigrants are flooding the country with hospital, school, welfare systems and the housing market buckling under the pressure. State governments have gone into insane amounts of debt due to mismanagement and nanny state laws. And the multi decade recession free party with China buying all our resources is coming to an end. As they say you reap what you sow, we could have been an economic powerhouse but instead chose governments what would give us what we wanted now, instead of investing in sovereign funds which provide for many generations in the future.

    • +2

      Not sure why you got negged, it's all fact.

    • -3

      I read until

      comfortable hammock for millions

      Which it certainly isn't, guess you think living under the poverty line is a comfortable hammock? Why don't you try living off Centrelink?

      woke

      Go back to sleep old man.

      • The truth hurts, facts before feelings.

      • +2

        Schrodinger's Welfare - where a person lives in one of the most expensive country's in the world, it's a shithole!!!1! but at the same time apparently $389 a week is a comfortable hammock lmao these people are DELUSIONAL

  • -3

    There’s really no excuse to allow dual citizenship in today’s day and age. It just fosters a detestable mindset among certain people. They called it quits on their motherland for the easy life over here and then want to call it quits on Australia when the going gets tough. It’s obvious that they see their neighbours as nothing but an economic opportunity to be exploited.

  • +5

    Go now. Hurry up.

  • +10

    I work in a very niche area and I'm regularly contacted by recruiters from the US to relocate. Some of them have offered me 3x what I'm currently earning (although once you take out health insurance it comes back to about 2.25x after federal income tax, obviously difficult to work out with different state income and GST/VAT tax rates).

    Between the guns, the social disintegration, the health system, the school shootings, the crime rates, the Christo-fascist nature of many State governments, the lack of sporting opportunities for kids outside of school programs, and the impending election and the drama that will no-doubt happen after that, there is no amount of money that these recruiters can offer me that would make me move my young family to the US.

    And this is coming from someone who grew up wanting nothing more than to move to the US! I still love lots of US sports, I have family I love dearly all across the country, but yeah nah, no thanks.

    Having lived overseas for many years (Europe, Asia and Canada), I can honestly say there are few countries that offer the quality of life that Australia does, particularly if you have kids under the age of 18.

    • +3

      USA is the greatest country in the world to visit that I wouldn't choose to live in

      • +3

        For me that would be Egypt - absolutely incredible place to visit, but also absolutely wouldn't want to live there.

    • Finally. A sane understanding of the situation.

  • +6

    Intersting perspective. People from around the world are dying to get a foot in our door. Quite literally dying. I don't think we realise how messed up most parts of the world is right now and the truly terrifying risks that exist for many people

    Australia is expensive for a reason just like anything else in life - when something is high in demand

    The problem with humans is that the grass seems always greener on the other side

    • +1

      absolutely, especially in context of what's happening in the Middle East and Ukraine, we are blessed to be living in one of the few continents whose soil has never been touched by war in modern times (unless you count the Uboat in our harbour).
      the problems OP describes are not unique to us, if you look at other developed countries they have their own struggles, ie. France and their crime issues/Far right movements, UK with their riots, Germany's economy, Canadian and NZ capital city housing prices and that's without even mentioning the dumpster fire that is the US

      • +3

        Poor old Darwin, Broome and FNQ… always being forgotten 💔

        • The weather in Darwin is not for everyone.

      • Blessed equals lucky

    • +3

      I don't think we realise how messed up most parts of the world is right now

      I think that's a bit of an assumption. "Most" parts of the world are doing just fine, except for war torn places (and even most of them are doing fine outside of the most affected areas such as Russia Ukraine Israel Lebanon)

      Life in Australia is good and safe (but boring) in general but there's really no need to glorify it.

      • Doing fine doesn't = no risk

        Also a life that's "good and safe" is something the majority of the worlds population can only dream about - let alone be "bored" with

        Boredom is subjective and arguably dependent on the individual. You can be anywhere in the world and consider it boring if that's your personality. Personally I find Australia quite exciting and offers thrills and adventures at all levels if you like to explore a bit.

        • Again, you seem to think the world revolves around Australia. It really doesn't, and that's ok.

          Most of Asia is good and safe. Most of Europe is good and safe. Most of the US & Canada is good and safe. Even most of the middle east is good and safe.

          It's good to get out more, and you don't need to invalidate the rest of the world to show that Australia is a good place. Being in Australia doesn't mean no risk either…

          • @immrnonamehello: Globally, nobody cares about Australia - and that's probably one of the reasons why its so appealing

            I spend 50% of the year travelling overseas nowadays and I grew up in Hong Kong.

            Hong Kong changed significantly for the worse after 97. If you want to talk about unaffordability, there is no greater example. If you are poor or down on your luck, you are left to die on the streets. Good luck finding an equivalent centrelink or any kind of sustainable govt housing. This applies to most Asian countries currently - economically and politically there is a palpable pressure that something is going to break…soon

            Europe (by in large) has also changed significantly in terms of cost of living. There is a growing illegal migration and crime problem. London and Paris are no longer safe. If you wear anything slightly expensive, you can expect to be robbed in broad daylight

            The US has its own drugs/crime/homelessness/political issues. The divide between rich and poor is now greater than ever. Speak to anyone who lives in the US, especially major capitals like NYC and LA and they'll tell you how bad its become within the past decade alone.

            Canada is similar to Australia - but you pay for it just as much

            Basically, if you aren't rich, life sucks significiantly more in most countries except for Australia. If you aren't rich in Australia, you can still get by with the bare basics and if you want to make something of yourself, you have a lot more opportunity to create a decent life if you put in the slightest bit of effort.

            In my experience as well, running a successful business in Australia is probably one of the easiest things to achieve compared to anywhere else in the world

  • +3

    Thanks Ops for the post, it s an intriguing topic tbh coz more and more ppl actually have the same opinions with you. Not going to elaborate further why housing such a problem in Aus coz most of ppl know more or less. Initially, didn't really to comment but here I am anyway 😜

    I lived in US for abt 8 years and in Austin, Tx for abt 3.5 years. For a single life, i will pick US (better housing price (speaking Austin here), cheaper consumer goods, more opportunities, Road trips etc.)… For family, i still pick Aussie for safety, more work life balance, health cover, etc. Another big benefit for us is OZ is way closer to hometown so I can meet my parents at least once a year and they can regularly visit us as well. I asked my friends with kids in US if they re worried abt safety. While some of them honestly admitted they re worried, some said they never experience it so they don't care. 🤷.

    All in all, will I move back to US? I d say, I will if it s better for the kids but not while my parents are still alive. And for housing, depends on where you live but I think California and NY housing prices are quite high as well. I didn't bother to check tbh but big cities will have comparable price with OZ housing prices. My 2c.

    • thanks for this, good insights

  • +4

    "Wherever you go, there you are."

  • she was moving to Texas

    As the future is looking the good old USA will probably be the worst place to go to live in.

    Remember that wealthy US citizens aim to live in New Zealand rather than the USA. For whatever reasons but they just want to abandon ship.

    It is very sad but the future is very bleak and unsettle for our long loved and admired USA.

    Where to go instead? I just don't know.

    As the saying goes: You'll have to find your place in the world. Wherever that is

  • +3

    They shrugged and said you could buy top notch health cover and still be ahead compared to Australia

    Googling this will show you that this is just factually incorrect.

    Also, school shootings.

  • +3

    Imagine wanting to move to Texastan.

    "Noun: Formerly a region of the United States, Texastan became a separate region once it fell completely under the control of Christian Sharia during the early 21st century. Texastan is known for its restrictive voting rights, denying women’s bodily autonomy, it’s complete lack of gun laws, it’s aversion to science, and building large pointless walls.
    Texastan is run by a right wing oligarchical right wing minority determine to retain power by any means."

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Texastan

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