Looking at current prices of used tesla's and brand new tesla's quiet a huge drop in price from new to old.
I know by owning an EV you save on fuel….but buying them brand new and losing $20,000-$25,000 after 3 years of ownership makes little sense or does it? So my question is.
What do you exactly save?
Are you just making one of the greatest scammers Elon rich or you are actually saving money?
The battery in my car lasts years between charges or needing to be replaced.
How many cycles or years is the warranty? When bought second hand how does that compare to the new warranty?
Is that some new trending hashtag to let everyone know youve got an EV?
Pretty sure you're thinking of #PlugLife. Everyone should know you're saving the planet between drive bys.
So you think EV's get power from thin air…..
Tell Me Some Positives of Buying a New Tesla
You can order an obnoxious custom number plate bragging about your new found perceived lack of reliance on fossil fuels.
In Victoria OFFOIL is already taken, as is ONCOAL
Is OnCobalt taken?
…. Although I believe some Tesla batteries are now Cobalt free
Theres a tool near me with plates, 'WHYGAS'. Drives like he used to drive a BMW
There's one near me with "ELON" on theirs, makes me laugh every time I see it.
Near me I have seen YOIL and MY WHY
So is FUELOL
and leave the efficiency sticker on it which they all seem to do in my area.
Seriously? This would never fly in regional NSW.
it's usually the white ones too. I think it's cause of smugness but I heard that they think it helps with resale value somehow.
They want to drive around looking like a fridge?
People have been leaving them on white goods (and toilets) for years. Drives me nuts.
Someone near me has EMIT5 or something lame like that.
GRETA and 'GRETA T' is already taken. How dare you!
"Are you just making one of the greatest scammers Elon rich or you are actually saving money?"
And just when I was wondering if you had a biased opinion about Teslas, here it is.
He is a scammer but would love to know what you actually save by buying a brand tesla?
he is a grifter dating all the way back to his paypal days and multiple class action law suits
Tell Me Some Positives of Buying a New Tesla
Battery has both + and - connection, so you get both Positive & Negative
That's almost a JV comment !
Except for the positive votes.
That's a bold statement
This is a bold statement
Almost, but not quite. The difference is that cashless was funny.
You get to be insufferable as you tell everyone you possibly can all about it.
Double points if you're vegan, too.
what about cross fit, mac owners?
If you’re all of that, the whole world may well implode.
Here's a hot take: vegans are actually good people who are willing to change their lifestyle to do what really matters to save the planet. Instead of poking fun at them they should be praised and thanked, similar to people who have chosen not to have children.
I don't have one, probably never will, but think about it… why do Tesla owners love their cars so much? Not because it's electric! It's a big toy and people love them. None of the Tesla owners i know brag about the savings, in fact they even whinge about repair costs etc and still they love their cars. Say what you will about them but you don't get this kind of enthusiasm for any commercial product that easily! I don't bag about my solar system at home that actually saves me big $$ without expenses, i don't brag about my samsung (old) flagship phone with us 10x zoom, no, they are all great and i can recommend them but none create the same excitement as Teslas for some reason. Add to that that Tesla's aren't even made by a likeable person, far from it! None of us like to see a mega rich guy get richer and more arrogant by the day, but still these owners are jubilant. They are not faking it i think, they aren't paid to be advertising the brand, it just happens to be a product that creates 'delight' for some bizarre reason. None of the owners I've met bought it as an investment, and none of the owners I've met are on centrelink payments either. Just my observation. Maybe people are jealous, or sick of their bragging…
What repair costs do they complain about?
When they crash it either from auto pilot failure or they were showing off and ran out of talent.
@JIMB0: Accident repair costs are high (and it doesn't take much to write one off) but that should be covered by insurance.
I suppose you can complain about the high insurance premiums of all EV's.
Door handle stopped working i remember recently and he had something else before too, and even a new motor under warranty. Its an older model, one of the earlier ones. But he is happy as larry with it. Also note my brother is not normally a luxury car driver either, had a honda before it.
@Waltervp: That's not too bad.
What's wrong with the pull out style door handle? They are practical and look good.
The door handle that pops out when unlocked seems a little unnecessary to me. Different for the sake of being different but more things to go wrong.
The instant torque and relatively heavy weight of them tends to shred the expensive tires they require. Obviously you can just never plant the accelerator, but it's hard not to.
I work with a couple of people who have them and love them. But I guess the difference between them and other people who love talking about their cars seems to be that the Tesla people love the tech more than the car, if that makes sense. They're not talking about how great it is to drive, they're talking about the electronics and software and other high tech gizmos. That seems to be the main difference that I've noticed (obviously this is anecdotal, not a statistically significant sample etc)… it's more tech enthusiasts than car enthusiasts that seem to love them.
Social engineering via social media.
It's like apple fanboys
Agreed because there are no savings to be had. The vast majority of Tesla owners bought before the multiple price cuts and overpaid for their Tesla by $10k-30k. They pay more money in insurance every year and they will never recoup the cost of fuel savings in their lifetime. They bought it because it's the latest cool thing, it's new and an awesome toy that doubles up as a practical car. I worked out that even with the current price of $61k drive away, you'll get free petrol for life if you just bank the discount in your offset account and get a top of the range Haval H6 Ultra hybrid instead ($42k). That doesn't even account for the cheaper insurance every year. I will buy one when it makes financial sense or close to it, not at these outrageous prices. The worst thing is that your car gets written off for a small ding to your battery, you then lose out as your insurance only covers "market value (aka 60% of the car's value)" when writing it off if it's older than 2 years.
EV and PHEV are very cheap on leases, as you csn pay before tax is taken out.
A 60k ev is approx = 40k ice
In terms of repayments.
Don't forget to make sure everyone knows you don't like Elon!
buying them brand new and losing $20,000-$25,000 after 3 years of ownership makes little sense or does it?
To be honest, that's pretty normal for a $75k car.
If you don't want to lose money on a new car, don't buy a new car.
Tesla has some of the lowest battery degradation in the EV game so over a much longer period (200,000km) the figures may still stack up.
Tell Me Some Positives of Buying a New Tesla
You get 4 tyres made from fossil fuels !
And plastic seats vegan leather seats
I think you mean rebranded vinyl.
I was sold on vegan leather until I found out it wasn't made of vegans…
Hate on Tesla’s all you want. All new cars face massive depreciation in the first 5 years. If you don’t want to buy a new one don’t.
Even Toyota?
Positives: You now have a license to cut into any conversation between random people talking about EV’s and interject with “well, akshully…”
Buy a used one. Reap thebreqards of someone else stumping up for a new lease becasue they cant afford the residual and cant work out that continuing to buy new cars (even leasing) is not for those with a budget.
Positives:
New car smell
New car small makes scents, cheers.
With novated lease the effective ownership cost of EV is a lot cheaper than the sticker price. Consider this: a top tax bracket person is relatively cost-neutral going from a 25,000 dollar used ICE car to a 81,000 dollar EV. (Source: comprehensive EV calculation spreadsheet)
Tesla does have advantages.
Auto-steer is pretty mature. Early problems of phantom braking etc are pretty rare now.
Most of their driver-convenience features are better than other conventional brands. walk to the car with your phone on you and the car unlocks itself. The car sync the calendar and sets the destination to your current calendar agenda. The phone app is comprehensive and very responsive. When you set the speed limit you can set it to the current speed + 2km/h if that's your style. etc. The car automatically projects the battery consumption based on the drive - terrain, wind direction, driving lead-footedness etc. All of them do add up. I am not aware of many EV that does all of the above. E.g. I also own a Kia EV and while the car build is very good, the driver technology is far behind Tesla's. It doesn't even project the battery consumption based on terrain and current driving style.
The transition between manual control and adaptive cruise control is very, very smooth. Many other cars have a bit of jerky transition when you swap between the two, but Tesla just picks up naturally.
The brand probably has the most experience and data behind battery management systems given the longer experience in EV.
Integration with automated logging and smart-home stuff. I am able to program my garage door such that it automatically opens when it detects my car arriving home; or to automatically close after it leaves the garage. I also run a home server that logs everything the car does, every detail of the drive, battery health etc. Naturally not everyone cares, but for someone with interest in data and analytics this is amazing.
Having said that there are definitely caveats.
A few drawbacks:
The insurance premium can be a lot more for some people, though this phenomenon is not universal. If you aren't already enjoying the tax-advantage of NL, this increased insurance premium alone could unfortunately negate any of the petrol saving you might derive. For some reasons Tesla appears to be more expensive than other EV brands all else being equal.
EV depreciation. Although we have unfortunately seen massive depreciation for the last couple of years, I don't believe that this phenomenon will continue, or at least at the same magnitude that we have seen. There's a plateau as to where EV dropping prices would reach, and I believe we are not far off it.
The hate you might attract. I got my Tesla when Elon Musk wasn't as loud and as attached to Trump. If I was just getting an EV today I will very likely not get a Tesla for this reason alone.
The hate you might attract. I got my Tesla when Elon Musk wasn't as loud and as attached to Trump. If I was just getting an EV today I will very likely not get a Tesla for this reason alone.
You can always disguise it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/mazda/comments/1f8m1ik/spotted_a_te…
The hate you might attract. I got my Tesla when Elon Musk wasn't as loud and as attached to Trump. If I was just getting an EV today I will very likely not get a Tesla for this reason alone.
Wild story, but one of my buddies is a start-up founder in Silicon Valley and has met Elon Musk (over a decade ago, back when he wasn't famous), and has friends who know Musk personally.
His take is that Musk basically has no real political ideology (and if anything, is very much socially liberal and was actually a registered Democrat for much of his adult life), and that this recent conversion was basically to pitch California against Texas for subsidies / tax breaks for his businesses and to attract politically conservative types to buying EVs.
The funny thing is that conservatives are still not buying Teslas despite supposedly liking Elon.
Interesting 5D chess hypothesis. Not sure if I believe in this though.
Which part don’t you believe? That Elon supported Trump for his own good not America’s nor the world’s?
@WT: Elon’s interests and those of the broader world are actually quite aligned.
He genuinely wants to create a better future for humanity.
In his view, Trump (or more broadly, anyone other than Harris and the current Dem's) represents a pivotal point in shaping that future.
In his view, Trump (or more broadly, anyone other than Harris and the current Dem's) represents a pivotal point in shaping that future.
Not a chance its this. Dump doss not believe in climate change, is stuck on fossil fuels and expensive nuclear power. This will shape the future in all the wrong ways.
The only thing the orange turd has promised that Mush likes is less unions, tax cuts for the rich and tariffs to protect his own factories. He has no concept of what its like to be a regular person with a mortgage and dossnt care about anything but increasing his own wealth.
If he did care about the planet, or regular people hed have spent half his fortune on reducing poverty and environmental protection.
@Euphemistic: Oh, I completely agree that Elon and Trump aren't aligned on everything, but the choice was either Trump or the insane Democrats.
was either insane Trump or the
insaneDemocrats
FTFY. If you think trump is more sane than the alternative, you need to get off fox news. Half the time Dump isn't even aligned with himself. He says whatever he need to impress the rich people and the suckers that think he's a demigod.
He says whatever he need to impress the rich people
tax cuts for the rich
Correct, except he's really bad at impressing the rich. The democrats somehow got 3x the amount of political donation from the poorer billionaires like Larry Ellison/Page, Bezos, Zuckerberg, Bill Gates/Steve Ballmer, Bloomberg + nearly all of Hollywood. Those people are the ones that truly care about the regular people.
The New York times explains why it's Trump's fault in this awesome piece https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNDgcjVGHIw&t=4s
@arkie0: Trunp is the poor mans idea of a business man.
Im convinced all his 'deals' are him swanning in to a meeting saying 'this is the deal' then his minions spend months negotiating the details before the actual deal is done.
Either that, or his minions come to him and say this will cost $xxx. He says, no its 60% of xxx or nothing and they relucantly agree on 60% knowing full well that 60% is a good deal. He thinks he's beat them down but he hasn't really done a good deal.
@Euphemistic: Is that the rich people that fund both sides of the coin ? Like the oligarchy? Two parties that get played by the super wealthy like the Israel lobbies in America. You know the ones pushing for more arms to genocide Palestinian people in Gaza , namely women and children !
At least Donald Trump is pushing for some kind of peace .
And if not Israel , he's definitely talking of ending the war in Ukraine , the war Victoria nuland and the CIA fomented in 2014 .
Elon’s interests and those of the broader world are actually quite aligned. He genuinely wants to create a better future for humanity.
Based on everything I've heard from people who have come across Elon Musk (including a close friend referenced above, who's met Musk before he became "famous", and another friend who previously worked at Tesla, but never actually met Musk), I would say that this is patently false.
What I hear is that he is almost wholly motivated by "cool tech". The idea that some of it may be good for humanity is coincidental, at best.
Which part don’t you believe? That Elon supported Trump for his own good not America’s nor the world’s?
Yes that part. Nice theory but not evidence based.
@Save 50 Cent: He has gone violently "anti-woke" since his favourite daughter transitioned into a son. He has deadnamed him (ie refused to recognise the change, including change of name).
Though I would not rule out pure business motives as well.
It's almost certainly true - he voted for Hillary in 2016.
Doesn't make him a better or worse person, but gives insight into how politics is just a tool for business.
and for Musk to gain leverage to reduce the competition from foreign EV's.
My sister used to work in Twitter during the takeover. She said he's an (profanity). He basically skirts the laws. There is a redundancy law where you pay severance for people if you are going to stood them down. He basically said, no I will not pay severance but I will pay you an amount (low balling) less than that for you to sign and leave. Of course, the severance is always better for twitter employees. However, if you want that severance, you need to sue Twitter/Elon Musk to get it which can be expensive since - lawyer fees, court time, and delaying time till you get pay.
This is interesting, because J.D Vance was also a registered Democrat member up until around 2016, and historically didn't mince his words when voicing his thoughts on Trump.
You forgot that with all the so called driver convenience features and data logging you are providing a wealth of data for them to sell.
Not unique to Tesla. Many brands do the same. And I am not sure how the ability to set the speed to speed limit + 2km/h has anything to do with data harvesting.
Its not just the speed setting. Ita the whole package.
While new EVs etc will likely have data connection, most existing vehicles have no connection to the internet. They dont upload loads of your driving practices, or monitor how often you use a drive through etc so they can then target advertising at you.
I wouldn't be concerned about our government going all big brother to try to fine you for speeding by 2km/h (yet) but suspect that tesla has clauses in their user agreement to allow lots of data harvesting and sale of that data to whoeever pays - wether that be friendly tech companies or unfriendly ones.
The transition between manual control and adaptive cruise control is very, very smooth. Many other cars have a bit of jerky transition when you swap between the two, but Tesla just picks up naturally.
I must be doing something wrong then, how are you supposed to do it? If you dont have your foot on the accelerator it kinda pulls back a bit unless you get the foot pressure right especially if you are cancelling via the brakes and need to move your foot back to the accelerator pedal
Yeah that’s what I mean.
Say I am cruising along on adaptive cruise control at 61km/h then see a red light in the distance. I swipe up on my right stalk and gently press the accelerator pedal. Tesla gets it just right - almost every time this handover from auto to manual is almost imperceptible - if you are a passenger with your eyes closed you wouldn’t have felt that there’s a change from cruise control to manual.
With Kia this is different. I do the same when I change over from auto to manual but there’s NEVER once it does it smoothly. There’s ALWAYS either a sudden dip before I can pick up on my pedal, or if I compensate on my pedaling too much the speed bumps up a bit before I can slow it again.
The exact same phenomenon is observed when going from manual to auto. Smooth and imperceptible in Tesla, jerky in Kia.
Obviously this is a small thing but for someone who likes adaptive cruise control all the time Tesla’s smoothness is very apparent at least compared to Kia.
Good answer.
The tech in the Tesla's are unmatched. If you enjoy settings and playing with them, phone control, sentry mode, vehicle and battery statistics etc. this is the car for you. It's like the android mobile of cars.
Petrol savings is great. Giving the middle finger to every petrol station you drive past is priceless.
I am curious, have you tested to see if your speedo is accurate? I do hate how all the ICE cars when doing 104km/h on the speedo, you're actually doing 100km/h.
Tesla speedo figure is around 2-3% higher than actual speed (when compared to Waze) which is why I have it set the adaptive cruise control to +3% speed limit so that I am driving at the speed limit in reality. On top of that each state law enforcement has an additional leeway of how much you can go over before they fine you.
walk to the car with your phone on you and the car unlocks itself.
Can the Tesla be operated, without any possession of the mobile phone?
Is there ever a situation, where you need Tesla cloud account or a sign-in to an app, to operate the Tesla car ?
They give you an RFID card which you can tap on the driver side’s B pillar to unlock or lock the car. So technically you don’t need the app to drive Tue car.
They give you an RFID card
Does this RFID have any 'attachment' to a person's identity.
ie. is it just a generic "key" to open/access the car ?
@whyisave: No, works just like any other key. You can also assign multiple key cards or fobs to the same car.
@unison: "any other key" ?
Any other key is a piece of metal cut, that unlocks the barrel of the lock.
A lot of cars don't even have this key-lock mechanism, and it's just a button press of a FOB with short-range 'radio wave'.
Neither of these, are tied to my identity and I can give the key or key-FOB to someone, without worrying about them ruining my 'reputation',..unless they have an accident, haha.
Then again, I am also not paying for them to use the car, whereas with the EV, there is a per-kilometre tax (from this year?)
whereas with the EV, there is a per-kilometre tax (from this year?)
I'm not aware of any jurisdiction that has a road user charge for EVs.
A few different states have tried but they have been struck down by the courts.
I'm not aware of any jurisdiction that has a road user charge for EVs.
Yes, you're right.
There is currently none, in NSW.
I knew of such a user-charge, coming in, a couple of years ago.
I didn't know that it was struck down by the courts.
However, this proposal exists for 2027 onwards …
https://www.nsw.gov.au/driving-boating-and-transport/nsw-gov…
A road user charge will apply to eligible EVs from 1 July 2027 or when EVs make up 30 per cent of all new vehicle sales, whichever comes first.
Plug-in hybrid EVs will be charged a fixed 80 per cent proportion of the full road user charge to reflect their vehicle type.
The road user charge rate is indexed to consumer price index each financial year.
The road user charge rate for the 2024-25 financial year will be:
• 2.906 cents per kilometre for a battery EV or hydrogen fuel cell EV
• 2.324 cents per kilometre for a plug-in hybrid EV
However, this proposal exists for 2027 onwards …
Did you read the notes at the bottom of the page you linked?
The decision in Vanderstock v. The State of Victoria (2023) (“Vanderstock”) determined that the Victorian Government’s Zero and Low Emission Vehicle Distance-based Charge Act was invalid.
The NSW Government is working to assess the potential implications of the decision for NSW’s electric vehicle road user charge.
The short version is that the court's decision in VIC means that the NSW legislation is also invalid. State governments do not have the constitutional authority to introduce a road user charge of any kind - this is the sole preserve of the Federal Government.
Given the complexity involved with vehicle and ownership records being held by the states, a road user change would also require agreement and cooperation from the federal government and all states and territories to implement.
It might happen eventually, but it's going to be a long and difficult process, and the Federal Government may find it easier to obtain additional revenue in other ways and let the petrol tax remain to incentivize EV adoption.
Both phone and account are optional, although warranty registration might be tricky without an account.
The standard key is a card. An account is necessary for accessing Supercharger and for cloud features.
So, to access the car's features, it needs to be tied to a person's personal details, right ?
I was just trying to clarify this part.
I was trying to find out, if there's any part of the process of owning/operating a Tesla car, is there is a need to link an identity to the car and the company.
I didn't think about EVs at all last week, but I went to the EV auto-show last weekend, and just curious about such things, but I forgot to ask questions at the Tesla stand and ran out of time.
Battery life.