How can anyone possibly complain about Australian welfare?

SlavOz on 26/03/2020 - 11:31
Last edited 30/03/2020 - 14:51 by 1 other user

I'm sorry, but I have to vent here. I probably deserve the dose of stupidity I've experienced the last couple of days because it's my fault for spending so much time reading social media, but I really can't fathom how so many of our people have the nerve to complain about Australia's welfare system.

Our welfare is so good that the main complaint against it in recent years has been that it's too good. We have among the highest rates of tax redistribution in the world and have rightfully earned the moniker of a "welfare state".

Now we suddenly have a massive influx of unemployment, and Centrelink has agreed to waive the requirements to means test or even prove that you're looking for another job, and people are still complaining!

Where is this coming from? Have we really bred an entire generation of adult brats who have been taught that the world is an injustice if they don't get exactly what they want, when they want it?

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Comments

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 27/03/2020 - 07:39
    +6

    Got no issue with the government giving extra $$ for people who lost there job but i dont understand why people who have been on welfare for >12months are getting the boost.

    I dont understand how anyone is blind to the fact that we have a % of the population who dont want to work (or dont want to pay tax so work for cash and get the doll).

    The welfare system is 'means' tested so legitimate people who work hard and lose there job are usually ineligible for support because they earned too much money and they will need to be unemployed to the next financial year to claim benefit which is f***en idiotic. IT SHOULD BE THE OTHER WAY AROUND you lose your job YOU GET SUPPORT REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU WHERE EARNED/HAVE HOWEVER AFTER 6-12months your payments are cut off or reduced to encourage people who get off there ass.

    The way the system is now we are rewarding the most useless people in society and punishing the ones who work hard pay tax and when they fall on hard times need the support…

    The 2nd issue is have is disability pension and aged pension get lumped in with welfare which is BULLSHIT if you have a disability or you have 'worked'and payed tax your whole life you should be entitled to a pension and a fair a pension a pension you can LIVE OFF. But we waste money giving it to generational doll cheats.

    Australia is f**ked rewards the riches 10% with tax breaks and the most useless 10% - everyone else is funding there life

  • PAOK11 on 27/03/2020 - 08:10
    +13

    Everyone on this website is a capitalist and earns over 100k pa. Of course your going to ignore the fact people are lining up at 5:30am to get an appointment, calling CL at 8am on the dot and not getting through and the my gov website is down. Get off your high horse there's thousands of people who have recently become unemployed due to the pandemic.

    • abuch47 on 28/03/2020 - 05:31

      *1 million at the start of the week

  • [Deactivated] on 27/03/2020 - 08:30
    -1

    So many arguments that start or evolve into "no money = no food".

    Grow something. It doesn't have to be the most amazing tasting stuff but you cannot possibly go hungry in the average Australian suburb where the overwhelming majority lives.

    I regularly gather (well not since the COVID-19) with old family members and friends who have lived in harsh conditions. We harvest our crop and cook our catch, often without supermarket supplement and we even have leftovers!

    Absolutely ridiculous. People sitting and moaning at home when they haven't lifted a finger to help themselves yet they lift two hands and open their palms to demand the free money they feel entitled to.

    • OzzyOzbourne on 27/03/2020 - 16:23

      Landlord wouldn't mind you turning over their entire garden to grow crops and raise chickens and pigs…and have you tried catching enough fish to eat each day… From the shore, before suggesting 1000s unemployed do this..

      • [Deactivated] on 27/03/2020 - 16:59

        I can tell you haven't tried growing anything.

        I can have aquaponics symbiotically feed a hydroponic system on the top and sides with 3sqm of land.

        tried catching enough fish to eat each day

        Done that, filled the freezer, been told not to bring back anymore until I reduce stock.

        before suggesting 1000s unemployed do this

        Looks like 1000s of people should coordinate their efforts and fish from a boat and catch the fish that would have been caught by the now unemployed commercial fisherman.

        I mean, it is not as if the fish we eat magically appears. If consumption goes down, availability goes up. That availability just requires some tools to get to.

  • OzHunterNSW on 27/03/2020 - 10:01
    -1

    The govt are doing an exceptional job…. but all New Zealanders should go back to their country if they seek support. Why should Aust pay them free money. Same with all these foreign students… go home… be safe… don't expect to sponge off our welfare system.

    • Cheaplikethebird on 27/03/2020 - 10:31
      +2

      Honestly rather than try and ship them back in this current mess which will be expensive as all hell we should make an agreement with NZ for them to foot the welfare bill of their citizens remaining here.

    • 91rs on 27/03/2020 - 11:36
      +7

      Australia doesn't pay them, any Kiwi who arrived past Jan 2001 is not entitled to most things outside of medicare, yet pay the same tax. So why people think that all kiwis are dole bludgers when so many aren't even eligible I don't know, All the Kiwis I know (including myself) living in Australia have never gotten anything out of this govt and have just been living here working away mostly minding our own business, no handouts or "free money" here mate.
      You want to pick on a group that gets every single dollar they can out of Australia and will push boundaries to take PBS meds back in bulk to their home country (where its then sold at a profit) then take aim at the Chinese, many of them are sponging off Australia yet its so rarely something anyone is willing to speak up about.
      PS, if you're an Aussie in NZ you are eligible for welfare, they're good like that.

  • Cheaplikethebird on 27/03/2020 - 10:24
    +1

    Here's one to get you even more worked up. I signed up to the 'link between my last job contracts. Landed a three month contract so I figured I'd stay connected and report my earnings, receiving a $0 payment (this happens for 3 months before you are automatically disconnected) so that when the contract ended I would not need to go through the registration process again.

    Now Centrelink has suspended the ability to report earnings so I'm getting a full payment on top of my earnings. Going to put it aside as I assume the government will come knocking for it after all this is over.

  • triviums on 27/03/2020 - 10:27
    +2

    Oh look, the government has to repay current/former welfare recipients 550 million dollars

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/mar/27/robod…

    • atotheb on 27/03/2020 - 13:04
      +8

      Yep, because they were hounding people for debts they didn't owe, using systems and methodology that the government knew was flawed.

      This government had been trying to dismantle the welfare system by stealth, making it increasingly difficult to access, and demonising the vulnerable.

      • unelectric on 27/03/2020 - 21:38
        +4

        And up to a million voters are about to find out how that system works. It's no wonder the payment was doubled temporarily.

  • drfuzzy on 27/03/2020 - 11:05
    +1

    Welfare and stimulus are necessary, but only to a degree.
    It is our children and our children's children who will be paying back the bulk of our debt. It is the future generations who will struggle from the welfare we received now. We will be long dead.

    • triviums on 27/03/2020 - 11:18
      +4

      Not necessarily.

      A good welfare system will be able to proactively reduce costs else where e.g the number of people seeking mental health assistance, etc.

      A good stimulus package will also be able to proactively build the country back up so that the overall cost is less than having no stimulus package. e.g The Green New Deal in America is an initiative that transforms the country to 100% renewable. The initiative contains a stimulus package on how to keep Americans employed while the country converts into a 100% renewable country.

  • Timtamdoritos on 27/03/2020 - 11:17
    +6

    5 years since I first came in this country.
    Found the job - yes
    Worked my ass off - yes
    Bought my own house - yes (though with just 20% )
    Racism - maybe but where dont we have it
    Still have 50k in account that will support me for an year if I lose my job.

    Planned it well from day one. Not even one cent taken from welfare.
    I see lot of present generation people not willing to work hard. I call them instagram generation where hardwork is not considered cool as you cant upload it.

    • triviums on 27/03/2020 - 11:59
      +2

      I take offense to you attacking my generation.

      I'm a welfare recipient and I have worked my f***ing ass off.

      I worked my f***ing ass off to contribute to the repair of over $5,000,000 in medical equipment in developing countries that will now help mitigate the number of deaths due to COVID-19. In addition to that people would be dead right now if it wasn't for me.

      What have you done in this time of crisis other than call my generation lazy?

      • [Deactivated] on 27/03/2020 - 13:28
        -1

        He could have repaired the same value of equipment and not have ended up on welfare.

        Just because you did some good work and ended up on welfare doesn't mean those not on welfare must not have done good work.

        • triviums on 27/03/2020 - 13:36
          +1

          I think you have taken my comment slightly out of context.

          I never said people not on welfare aren't doing good work. That would be a very closed minded statement to make considering all the help that Australians have done to help one and another through the bushfires and now COVID-19.

          My comment was more directed to this:

          I see lot of present generation people not willing to work hard. I call them instagram generation where hardwork is not considered cool as you cant upload it.

          • [Deactivated] on 27/03/2020 - 13:42

            @triviums: Fair enough but you can see how generalizations cut both ways, even if caveats or implied caveats such as "I see lot of present generation…" are used.

            A lot of young people are quite disconnected from reality. I remember working in the public system where most of those who qualify somehow acknowledged their unemployment as their own fault or as deliberate.

            Before I left the public sector, I remember the majority as unemployable. They would rock up with their friends and complain about how unfair their workplace is or how places are not flexible… in general, just tonnes and tonnes of complaints.

            Of course, this too is a generalization but I have seen the difference.

  • Diji on 27/03/2020 - 11:27
    +18

    So many cold takes in this thread. Now I get how Alan Jones is still on the radio.

    Are the people shouting "lazy dole bludgers" actually unaware of the fact that there are more unemployed than there are jobs, even prior to the current crisis?

    Even in the most ideal of circumstances there is going to be unemployment. So yeah, in an economic system that mandates unemployment we should allow the unemployed the dignity of not just existing at the poverty line. And this is just regarding unemployed but employable people, there's a whole other set of problems when it comes to those with disabilities.

    Someone's story of "a mate of a mate bludges and gets stoned all day playing video games" is not the majority of recipients. You're making a generalisation based on a minority.

    As for OP: the influx of applicants has served to highlight problems that were already there. The problems are just now magnified for all those who previously didn't need to make use of it.

    • Kingfield on 27/03/2020 - 12:55
      -1

      "actually unaware of the fact that there are more unemployed than there are jobs"

      I don't think anyone is unaware of this fact. Of course there are more unemployed than there are jobs. Yes there are those that don't want to get a job, and there are those that want to get a job but can't.

      At the end of the day, it's a matter of supply and demand - there are those that have worked their ass off in order to become more employable than those that haven't and it pays off. That's literally how life works.

      By the way, somebody who's on the base level of Centrelink + Rent Assistance is WELL above the poverty line, I don't think you know what poverty actually means. Yeah, if you wanna continue living in your $300pw rent Metro Sydney apartment while unemployed then yeah you're gonna have a hard time but if you wanted to, you could definitely live off purely centrelink comfortably if you actually choose to - and note by comfortably I don't mean "ideally", but you can live with a comfortable margin between your expenses and centrelink payments if you actually choose to live within your means.

      Now as for whether this double centrelink payment is a good or bad thing, I would think that it definitely requires some sort of criteria which would make more sense. Something like becoming redundant/laid off since jan/feb/march etc. being a condition for receiving the coronavirus payments. Otherwise honestly, a lot of people getting double payments when they don't need it. Would be great to be a student living at home, for example in this time.

      • Diji on 27/03/2020 - 18:20
        +1

        I don't think anyone is unaware of this fact. Of course there are more unemployed than there are jobs. Yes there are those that don't want to get a job, and there are those that want to get a job but can't.

        I was being sarcastic. The real reasons that people complain about their taxes going to welfare and that the majority of people on the dole are bludgers living it up on handouts is because they're selfish and cruel people who buy into any excuse to hate the "other".

        At the end of the day, it's a matter of supply and demand - there are those that have worked their ass off in order to become more employable than those that haven't and it pays off. That's literally how life works.

        Yes, and the way life works is that there will be unemployed people. Including ones that have worked their asses off at TAFE or uni or in other employment. Not everyone *can( have a job so why kick people when they're down?

        By the way, somebody who's on the base level of Centrelink + Rent Assistance is WELL above the poverty line, I don't think you know what poverty actually means.

        It's pretty close. The maximum payment from for a single job seeker is something like $300 or $400 a week. Poverty is defined by ACOSS as (in 2020):

        … this poverty line works out to $457 a week for a single adult living alone; or $960 a week for a couple with 2 children.

        So how is that "well above the poverty line"? Because someone might find some part time or casual work and find themselves inching above the poverty line with unstable employment?

        $300pw rent Metro Sydney apartment

        I'm going to assume you're joking because no job seekers live in one of the major cities unless they're sharing a joint with like 5+ other people.

      • rubixcube101 on 28/03/2020 - 00:22
        +2

        At the end of the day, it's a matter of supply and demand - there are those that have worked their ass off in order to become more employable than those that haven't and it pays off. That's literally how life works.

        Um what? So any hospitality worker who loses their job due to drop in sales is supposedly not working as hard as a teacher that gets to keep their job because this is more in demand? Or maybe it’s the physiotherapist that loses work because no one wants face to face contact? Your statement is delusional.

    • SlavOz on 27/03/2020 - 13:49
      -5

      Are the people shouting "lazy dole bludgers" actually unaware of the fact that there are more unemployed than there are jobs, even prior to the current crisis?

      No no, we are quite well aware of that. In fact, it's BECAUSE there are less jobs than people that we keep saying what we've been saying - stop sitting around complaining and go out and compete for those jobs. Some of the unemployed in Australia will end up filling the small amount of positions available, some will not.

      Which one do you want to be? If you keep whinging and spending all day lining up for pocket change, I know which one you'll be.

      • Diji on 27/03/2020 - 18:26
        +5

        it's BECAUSE there are less jobs than people that we keep saying what we've been saying - stop sitting around complaining and go out and compete for those jobs.

        What kind of logic is this? Let's take an impossible scenario: 100% of jobs are filled. The so-called lazy dole bludgers have gotten up off their ass and filled every job possibly available in this hypothetical scenario. Subsequently we still have thousands of unemployed people. I guess you would still consider them lazy just because of circumstances or something? Truly a bizarre line of thinking.

        Which one do you want to be? If you keep whinging and spending all day lining up for pocket change, I know which one you'll be.

        I'm doing a degree at uni while looking for work (because my diploma didn't get me anywhere) and frankly I don't care what you would label me.

      • field1985 on 27/03/2020 - 20:01
        +3

        A large number of people competing for a limited pool of jobs achieves absolutely nothing and it actually costs businesses time filtering useless resumes.
        You're the loudest whinger here dude.. get a grip. I would be willing to bet my savings you "work" for your daddy.. lol

        • SlavOz on 27/03/2020 - 20:52
          -2

          A large number of people competing for a limited pool of jobs achieves absolutely nothing

          That's just not true at all. It forces that large number of people to compete by studying hard, learning new skills, and completing more degrees. This ensures they're more employable for the future and has the added bonus of making sure our workforce doesn't suffer from a skills shortage, which is already a problem for us in many sectors.

          And no, it won't cost businesses money because employers can afford to be more picky. The top applicants will stand out and make themselves irresistible.

          • [Deactivated] on 27/03/2020 - 23:18
            +3

            @SlavOz: Have you actually been in a managerial role hiring staff? I don’t mean to sound harsh, but most things you’re writing in this thread sound from the perspective of a fresh uni grad without the work or life experience to know any better.

            For one, there is a real cost associated with filtering through applications with no chance of succeeding. That’s why recruitment agencies can get away with charging 15-20% GAR on placements, to handle all the filtering and screening and presenting the standouts to you only. They aren’t magically visible at a glance, especially when you factor in time to screen out the embellishers.

            Secondly, if you think all these people now unemployed could solve all their problems by getting degrees, you have no idea how the real world works. It’s not as simple as a first year economics textbook would suggest.

            • SlavOz on 27/03/2020 - 23:34
              -4

              @[Deactivated]: Mate you're just throwing around wild speculation. I've worked in business for over 10 years and have an economics degree. This is general economics.

              If there are 5 jobs available and 10 unemployed people, you create a massive incentive for those 10 people to make themselves stand out. 5 people will miss out. 2 of those will not even bother applying because they dont want to work. 2 will apply with an unfinished resume or half assed application. 1 will miss out on the job because he's not as skilled as the top 5.

              The one who legitimately did want the job but missed out will learn and become even better, and next time there's a job he'll be among the top the top candidates.

              And yes the hiring process is mundane and time consuming. Those who are comitted to success know how to stand out and make themselves irresistible.

              • [Deactivated] on 28/03/2020 - 00:14
                +7

                @SlavOz: Respectfully, at 29 and from what I assume is a comfortable background, it just doesn’t sound like you’ve experienced much beyond a social circle of similarly privileged people.

                I’ve had to stand down staff and let staff go, knowing full well how financially devastating that’s going to be for them in this environment. The only thing that lets me sleep better is we live in a country with a robust safety net. Please tell me about commitments to success and irresistibility only after you’ve had to do the same.

              • abuch47 on 28/03/2020 - 05:40
                +5

                @SlavOz:

                Those who are comitted to success know how to stand out and make themselves irresistible.

                The rest should just wither and die¿¿¿

              • Diji on 28/03/2020 - 15:41
                +4

                @SlavOz:

                If there are 5 jobs available and 10 unemployed people, you create a massive incentive for those 10 people to make themselves stand out. 5 people will miss out. 2 of those will not even bother applying because they dont want to work. 2 will apply with an unfinished resume or half assed application. 1 will miss out on the job because he's not as skilled as the top 5.

                More like 1 won't bother applying, 1 will have the skills required but lacks the resume to prove it, 1 will miss out because the position went to someone with connections despite being otherwise qualified, 1 has a qualification but not the required experience, and 1 misses out based on luck.

                And they're all destined to be called a bludger by SlavOz

  • cyrax83 on 27/03/2020 - 11:37
    +3

    Government doubling the payment for people who were jobless before this crisis is absurd. On what basis should they get double the handout for doing nothing? Their expenses should have reduced rather than increased.

    If you have lost your job due to a shutdown or other cause from the virus that is understandable and the double payment is justified.

    Meanwhile people who have been paying tax for their entire working life get nothing, no handout, no tax cut, nothing. If you are earning around ~$60k per year, you may as well quit and just go on the governments generous offer to hand out free money. Maybe that's what everyone should go and do.

    That's why people are mad. In this country you do nothing except sit on your ass and let everyone else pay for your lazy entitled lifestyle.

    • ThithLord on 27/03/2020 - 11:49
      +14

      If you are earning around ~$60k per year, you may as well quit and just go on the governments generous offer to hand out free money. Maybe that's what everyone should go and do.

      Game, set, match, everyone. Yes, going from ~60k a year to an exorbitant ~$14.5k a year makes TOTAL ECONOMIC SENSE because muh free money entitlements.

      This is what we're dealing with, Australia. That's the level of critical thinking from Cyrax83.

      • cyrax83 on 27/03/2020 - 11:51

        $60k was a mistake. I meant ~$30k-$40k as a casual - this is in the current time when fortnightly payments are doubled to ~1.2k a fortnight.

        • ThithLord on 27/03/2020 - 11:53

          Isn't it only two payments of the double figures? Even so, you'd recommend going from $30k to $15k?

          • cyrax83 on 27/03/2020 - 12:01
            +1

            @ThithLord: No - it's six months of double payments. If you are a casual earning around $30-40k per year, why bother when you can get welfare payments of a similar salary for 6 months?

            • ThithLord on 27/03/2020 - 12:04
              +2

              @cyrax83: Okay, my apologies. There is so much misinformation and premature opinions being formed, I thought it was only two payments. 550$ extra a fortnight, that's pretty damned good. It's going in whether we complain or not, I hope people spend, spend, spend

              • fusion17 on 27/03/2020 - 14:31
                +2

                @ThithLord: For example, alot of jobs pay around $22~ph, i think this includes supermarket stackers and may likely be the rate for the 10k new jobs coles and woolies want to create for the increased demand.

                That equated to around $1500 per fortnight (inc tax??) if you work around 70 hours.

                Why would anyone want to do this when they can get approx $1100 on the dole to watch netflix and party. You are gaining $400 for 70hours of your life, taking a health risk and now risking the health of your loved ones.
                As said above, the stimulus is fine for everyone who lost their jobs recently, but it was said that a large % the people lining up at centerlink were there to enquire of the stimulus have been on this long before the pandemic.

                I feel for the low income earners who get (profanity) all from this. I would want to lose my job in this situation.
                Am I missing something? serious Q.

                • ThithLord on 27/03/2020 - 15:45

                  @fusion17:

                  As said above, the stimulus is fine for everyone who lost their jobs recently, but it was said that a large % the people lining up at centerlink
                  were there to enquire of the stimulus have been on this long before the pandemic.

                  it was said

                  Where? Who? Where did you get this information from? Do you have any reliable sources, besides the Daily Mail or other rags?

                  • fusion17 on 27/03/2020 - 17:04
                    -1

                    @ThithLord: It was constantly reported on the news/interviews that a large amount of people lining up there are 'already on the system and don't need to do anything, it will come to them'.
                    Lets say they lied, how does that change anything else from the Ops title?

                    You didn't even understand how the payment worked, and youre asking me to prove it? lol.
                    Also, nice picking out one tiny part of my post.

      • Ughhh on 27/03/2020 - 16:16

        I know there a fair amount of those people also working cash in hand, tax free jobs. Could be making as much money as you, with less hours.

        • ThithLord on 27/03/2020 - 16:32

          Well seeing as you know this for a fact, it means we can extrapolate these results to the entire consensus of welfare recipients, huh?

          • Ughhh on 27/03/2020 - 16:38

            @ThithLord:

            Well seeing as you know this for a fact

            Well, if they told me something in person about their situation, is that a fact or an opinion? "I reckon they told me they work cash in hand" LOL you're funny.

            it means we can extrapolate these results to the entire consensus of welfare recipients, huh?

            Do you understand 'fair amount'?

            • ThithLord on 27/03/2020 - 16:47

              @Ughhh: Can you elaborate what a fair amount is, and how you came to that conclusion because you know … what is it, one person? whom works cash in hand AND claims unemployment benefits?

              Did you report 'em? You know who they are - seems you take issue with those receiving benefits when they shouldn't. So, report em?

    • [Deactivated] on 27/03/2020 - 11:50
      +1

      Mate… they're doing twice as much nothing these days so why shouldn't they be paid twice what they were paid for doing their usual nothing?

  • sa-ozzie on 27/03/2020 - 13:31
    +7

    Lots of ivory towers on this thread

    • [Deactivated] on 27/03/2020 - 14:01

      Lots of bludger enablers on this thread.

    • [Deactivated] on 27/03/2020 - 14:32
      +4

      Made lots of good decisions, worked hard, took risks - ivory tower.

      Made bad decisions, spent freely, saved barely - battler.

      • [Deactivated] on 28/03/2020 - 00:52
        +2

        That’s like saying all rich people vote Lib, hard work is always rewarded and risks always pay off. The world isn’t coloured so black and white.

  • popsiee on 27/03/2020 - 14:37
    +8

    The thread doesn't seem to get a simple economic fact that if you give money to the disadvantaged they will spend it . Give it to the rich guys they will not . That is the simple truth of the economic stimulus package at work :) But unfortunately no way can stop a recession , maybe if virus clears up mid to late next year out of it thanks in part to this band aid initiative .

    • fusion17 on 27/03/2020 - 14:52
      +3

      Disadvantaged are also low income earners - workers who in most cases do 70+hrs for $300-400 more per fortnight than the ones doing nothing.
      What do they get for the hours and health risks they place themselves and their familes in?

      • unelectric on 27/03/2020 - 21:36
        +1

        The problem you raised concerns companies that profit from overworked and underpaid staff. It's nice you care so deeply but it is separate to the issue of welfare recipients who spend most of what they receive in the local economy e.g. food and rent. Though as has been reported some cannot even afford food.

    • Diji on 27/03/2020 - 18:28

      People ITT upset because they can't add some more ETFs to their portfolio

  • gravel on 27/03/2020 - 16:52
    +4

    "Our welfare is so good that the main complaint against it in recent years has been that it's too good. " Either you are Scotty from marketing or you are clueless. Newstart has not been increased for years and yes it's tough to survive on $270 a week. If you want to see how a good welfare system works take a look at Norway, just as an example.

    • unelectric on 27/03/2020 - 21:37
      +2

      Newstart hasn't been increased in real terms since 1994. Welfare recipients are surely living a life of luxury.

    • SlavOz on 28/03/2020 - 11:18

      If you want to see how a good welfare system works take a look at Norway, just as an example.

      Norway doesn't have free healthcare (you need to pay to get public funded health and even then some things aren't covered).

      It also looks like Norway has temporarily unpublished the unemployment benefit pages on their website. Something tells me they're considering cutting back the scheme due to the Covid-19.

      https://www.nav.no/en/home/benefits-and-services/unemploymen…

      Australia, meanwhile, has doubled the unemployment benefits during this crisis.

      Oh and Norway has strict regulations around receiving welfare just like Australia does. You need to a registered job seeker, show up to tick a box just like here, and your payments can be cut off if you dont comply - just like Australia.

      https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=1123&langId=en&in…

      Doesn't sound like Norway is giving anything more than Australia tbh. I also heavily doubt they've doubled their unemployment benefit in lieu of this pandemic. This is a classic case of the grass is always greener on the other side.

      And don't forget Norway's tax rate is fairly higher than Australia. As soon as the unemployed get a job they'll be struggling again with that enormous tax redisitribution.

  • veej on 27/03/2020 - 17:56
    +3

    Have you ever lived off Newstart? My rent which is towards the bottom end of the scale swallowed my entire Newstart when I was unemployed. I ran up a lot of debt just to keep a roof over my head. You've been misled if you think living on welfare is a free money party, it's ridiculously low considering the high living costs in Australia.

  • Cherry12 on 27/03/2020 - 18:06

    I think that it depends on the person. You have persons that get welfare and use it for the wrong things and create bad reputation for others.

    I have a friend that is on welfare because she lost the job because she lost the license for speeding while drinking. She completely stopped looking for a job for over a year because she had no license. Although I think she could have used public transport.

    Besides, the money she received was enough to keep drinking at home and pay rent.

  • Drakesy on 27/03/2020 - 18:11
    +2

    As someone who received the youth allowance and vowed never to go back onto centrelink after finishing uni only to find myself back on it after being made redundant i can confirm the system is definitely broken.

    At the best of times its a minimum 1-2 hour wait to talk to anyone regarding your welfare
    The call centres are understaffed
    The online system and app are flawed, with auto rejections because they deemed your information incorrect only to have it clarify it over the phone which results in more timewasting
    The means test is broken, you need to wait an additional week for every $500 cash you have in your bank account. Im sorry but just because i decided to not get myself into shedloads of debt i get punished and have to wait a minimum of 13 weeks to receive payments?

    • Cherry12 on 27/03/2020 - 18:17
      +1

      Yeah, its not fair. They should give it to people who lost the job due to the virus regardless of their savings.

      • love2buy on 27/03/2020 - 19:15

        That should be the case if there is infinite amount of money to go around. But I'm afraid there isn't tho.

      • haemolysis on 27/03/2020 - 20:07

        What on earth?? Regardless of savings?? Your savings are money. You can’t go into unemployment office and claim you need money if you HAVE money.

        • Drakesy on 29/03/2020 - 11:44

          So because I decided to save for a mortgage because of the artificially high house prices I get punished, though the next guy who blew 90k on a mercedes gets immediate welfare? Is that fair, penalizing someone for being more financially sensible.

          • haemolysis on 29/03/2020 - 13:50

            @Drakesy: No that’s not fair, but life isn’t fair. If you have money, you must use it to sustain yourself.

            Having said that, I believe a car should fall under an asset test and have to be sold. You should both have to live of savings.

            • Drakesy on 30/03/2020 - 11:03

              @haemolysis: Thats the point, the asset test is up to 250k so as long as my money is locked into other areas i'll get it immediately
              Brb
              Going to buy a couple of high yielding bmws

  • Aneurism on 27/03/2020 - 19:25
    -4

    People getting paid by centrelink to sit at a beach and ignore social distancing rules… People still with jobs are conducting business meetings over video or conference calls. (Unless they are all on leave which is doubtful)

  • unelectric on 27/03/2020 - 21:29
    +10

    Absolutely amazed by some of the comments in this thread most of which are based in fantasy concerning the the mythical dolebludger who is living large on 15k a year and never intends to work. Some people will always game the system, but neither you nor I know how many there are, and that shouldn't preclude us from giving help to people who actually need it.

    As I typed this I got a news notification saying Myer is standing down 10,000 employees - add that to the Qantas & Virgin pile. And that's just three companies. Up to a million jobs could be lost including by some in this thread who will no doubt find out how cruel the system really is. Maybe they might develop a shred of sympathy for people who have been dealing with this for years.

    • [Deactivated] on 27/03/2020 - 23:32
      +2

      the mythical dolebludger

      Shane Paxton?

      But in all seriousness I agree with what you’re saying. This situation is horrific and it’s going to get a whole lot worse. It’s sad that the best of Australia through the bushfires has been so quickly eclipsed by the worst of Australia through xenophobia and violence, selfish panic buying, profiteering, and in this case lack of empathy and victim blaming.

    • ThithLord on 30/03/2020 - 08:42
      +1

      Reading these comments has been quite disheartening, I have to say, Unelectric.

  • syousef on 27/03/2020 - 22:13
    +5

    This whole thread is either a troll or an F U or both.

    Anyone with eyes and ears is well aware aware of the hoops the unemployed have to jump through to get benefits.

    People who have never been out of work in their life have, through no fault of their own, just lost their jobs. It's not like you can just go out and interview at the moment. These circumstances could last 6 months or more and employment won't pick up for months or years after. Few Australians have that kind of money saved for a rainy day. If your job is secure or you're wealthy just keep your damn mouth shut and don't prove to the world that you haven't been brought up right.

    I am utterly disgusted with a large portion of Australian society lately. What happened to mateship and the fair go? Scarcer than toilet paper after mass hoarding!

    MODERATORS WHERE ARE YOU? Get off your backsides and prove your support of charity and mental health initiatives isn't just talk. This thread should not be allowed to continue. There WILL be suicides resulting from this pandemic!!! And shame on every last one of you piling on. Blood on your hands!!!

      • syousef on 27/03/2020 - 23:36

        Now I'm certain you're trolling. You really should be locked up. That isn't just rhetoric. What you're doing is dangerous and ought to be illegal if it already isn't. Free speech does not mean free of consequences. Bullying and hate speech are not protected.

      • unelectric on 28/03/2020 - 01:53
        +3

        We live in one of the most prosperous countries in the world with a very high standard of living

        So would you agree that with such wealth and high standards of living it is a national shame that we are letting people starve on Newstart? Or should we only share the prosperity with taxpayers amirite?

        • SlavOz on 28/03/2020 - 10:26
          -2

          Now I'm certain you're trolling. You really should be locked up. That isn't just rhetoric. What you're doing is dangerous and ought to be illegal if it already isn't

          LOL I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this. You want someone to be locked up for having a positive opinion about Australia and it's welfare system and for saying those on it should be grateful?

          Thanks for proving why so many people don't want to give the entitled among us any more power. You would sooner destroy this country with your "anything I don't like to hear is illegal" mindset than I would with my "our welfare system is pretty good" mindset.

  • Malmsey on 28/03/2020 - 00:11
    +10

    This is the typical attitude of an Australian who has no sense of empathy for those who were not born with a silver spoon in their mouth and has grown up on the "dole bludger" slogans of a conservative government. I guess it's not all your fault as this rubbish is constantly spewed by the Murdoch zealots who spread it across 70% of Australian media that he owns.

    Of course, the only lazy person I see here is you who hasn't even bothered to educate themselves by looking at the raw statistics to see who you were actually WHINGING about.

    This data is easily available from the Department of Social Services website and I hope you can find the time to get off your high horse long enough to enjoy some humble pie.

    These numbers are from September 2019 so I guess we can always compare this to post pandemic if you even care to. https://data.gov.au/dataset/ds-dga-cff2ae8a-55e4-47db-a66d-e…

    Keep in mind that the DSS has approx. 27 different types of payments that I could see, but I'm guessing your beef was with those on Newstart in particular.

    Australia's population is approx. 25 Million - Total on Newstart 680,009 (Sept 2019). I'll break this "welfare brat-pack" down for you a little by age group:
    21-44 332,594
    45-54 160,730
    55+ 186,685

    Those who are 45 and above are considered mature age workers which presents a different set of problems when seeking employment.

    "… by 2020 four in 10 Australian workers will be 45 or older, creating a significant problem for the nation’s future productivity if employers continue to see older workers as washed up…" - https://hiring.careerone.com.au/hiring-advice/workforce-mana…

    Plain data doesn't tell you the whole story, but needs to be studied whilst keeping in mind the participant's age, sex, socio economic and health backgrounds.

    I admit there will always be some who try to scam the system to help themselves. Have you heard of our Coalition government?
    If only you'd save this kind of contempt for those rorting scumbugs with their honourable facades and greedy hearts.

    These vultures are actively tearing down a system which was built to help our fellow Aussies in need and left it a skeletal mess. It has now deteriorated so much that it lacks the checks and balance which would've ensured that it operated with integrity and efficiency.

    Now I don't want to descend further into anger and recriminations. Instead, I only plead with you to have an open mind and heart and don't let cynicism override your good conscience. We can be so much better than this without having to demonise the underprivileged. Our current predicament has provided us with an opportunity to examine our shortfalls as a nation and set higher expectations for our government.

    “A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members.” - Mahatma Gandhi

    • gravel on 28/03/2020 - 08:46
      +1

      Brilliant…nailed it!

    • [Deactivated] on 28/03/2020 - 18:20
      +3

      I only plead with you to have an open mind and heart wallet…

      It is very easy to share someone else's hard earned rewards.

      • Malmsey on 29/03/2020 - 11:34
        +1

        Wow… The presumption that those who apply for welfare have never paid taxes.

        I'm happy for my taxes to subsidise those in need.

        Please continue to isolate yourself in your ivory tower.

        • [Deactivated] on 29/03/2020 - 12:10
          +1

          You presume that if one disagrees with your ideology, they must be in an ivory tower.

          • Malmsey on 29/03/2020 - 13:27
            +1

            @[Deactivated]: Alluding to the fact that you may be out of touch with reality is not presumptive.

            I’ve seen so many here touting that old fable of the self-made man/woman. Luck and privilege play such a big role in the level of success one has, but many hardly talked about.

            You can have all the talent in the world and invest all your hours to achieving success with nothing to show for it.

            Nobody can deny the genius of Nikola Tesla. Yet he spent many months digging ditches for $2 a day after the investors of the Tesla Electric Company dumped him unceremoniously upon profiteering off of his creations.

            This is quite a common story and rings true for so many hardworking people who are the victims of our capricious capitalist society.

            Then there are those who fall ill through no fault of their own. My friend’s epilepsy and my mum’s lupus meant that their incomes were immediately impacted and reduced considerably while in the prime of their working life.

            Maybe speak with Aussies who’ve had to contend with bushfires and floods and how welfare payments helps subsidise them until they get back on their own feet. The mental anguish and its physical toll also makes a big difference in the time that it takes to achieve that.

            What used to be a straightforward and relatively painless process has been reduced to a discriminatory time wasting exercise.

            • [Deactivated] on 29/03/2020 - 23:46
              +1

              @Malmsey:

              Nobody can deny the genius of Nikola Tesla… This is quite a common story and rings true.

              You've taken a remarkably exceptional man with remarkably exceptional achievements and turned exception into rule.

              Then there are those who fall ill through no fault of their own. My friend’s epilepsy and my mum’s lupus…

              … and here you conflate unemployment welfare to disability pensions.

              I don't think there is common ground for debate here.

              • Malmsey on 30/03/2020 - 00:40
                +1

                @[Deactivated]: You consistently ignore the point I’m making and cherry pick statements to obfuscate the matter.

                1. If someone as exceptional as Tesla could struggle then spare a thought for the average Joe.

                2. Hard work and/or talent may help you succeed up to a point, but people often discount the role of luck and privilege from the myth of the self made man.

                3. Disability payment is still classed as welfare and both the people I’ve mentioned have been stigmatised due to blanket statements such as the one made in the opening post. You conveniently ignored the rest.

                You’re right though. This is getting repetitive. I’ve been wasting my breath here on those with a selfish mindset. We’re only as strong as our weakest link. Goodbye!

  • syousef on 28/03/2020 - 08:46
    +2

    A reminder to anyone that actually gives a shit. There are people who've just lost their jobs and who don't know how they're going to feed their families over the next 6 months reading this thread. Some don't qualify for government assistance. DO NOT be the (profanity) that pushes someone over the edge.

  • earth worm jim on 28/03/2020 - 10:14
    +1

    The UK govt has announced it will cover 80% of employer wages to keep people employed.

    Australia being this awesome "welfare" state has not done anything close to that. I am going to lose 2 weeks of wage because my employer is forcing me to take unpaid leave to protect their business. I am not eligible for any benefit announced by the govt while I lose 50% of what I earn in that month. I may lose my job and some people in my company already have, because the "welfare" govt has given no incentive to businesses to keep people employed.

    • SlavOz on 28/03/2020 - 10:21

      IIRC there was a stimulus package where the government was covering some wages, I think it was up to 50% for apprentices.

  • StalkingIbis on 28/03/2020 - 10:31
    +4

    I know this situation sucks for everyone but I feel a tiny bit ripped off for choosing a safe, unexciting carer that would protect me in these sorts of situations when I could've sought a riskier high paying job and smashed it for a few years and then been bailed out by govt when this happens.

  • Hangryuman on 28/03/2020 - 10:43
    +3

    'Our welfare is so good that the main complaint against it in recent years has been that it's too good'

    this suggests your echo chamber of people you usually talk to are somehow remote from people actually reliant on welfare - how's the weather there on the North Shore or your coastal retirement village ?

    struggling students I spoke to trying to improve their life chances - missed classes because centrelink was going to cut them off unless they showed up for a stupid tick-box appointment, which meant they had to bus across town carrying their belongings because they were homeless and didn't have a place to stay, while missing the chance to get to a doctors with their current health problem, and then they were hungry but didn't have enough money to buy a meal - and I was wondering why they came late to class ?

    talk to some of those folk and you might get a different picture of how 'good' life is for them.

    • SlavOz on 28/03/2020 - 10:59
      -4

      The numbers don't lie. Australia has one of the highest tax redistribution rates in the world, so much so we've commonly been compared to a Socialist country. Plus other subsidies like healthcare, home buyer schemes, etc don't always exist in other countries. Australian welfare isn't perfect, but nowhere is. The unemployed people who've been affected by Covid19 in Belgium or Denmark aren't exactly getting an easy ride either. No government can possibly meet all the needs of the needy and poor. It's financially impossible.

      Our welfare is limited but it's very good and one of the best you'll find. That someone can still struggle while on our welfare system due to extreme circumstances isn't an argument. Thats like saying the person who was on welfare as a student and ended up becoming rich down the track proves our system is perfect.

      Poor people in Australia get free healthcare, free university or TAFE, and a basic allowance to cover food. In most other countries the poor people won't even get a hole to have their body thrown in when they starve. Be grateful.

  • Hangryuman on 28/03/2020 - 11:06
    +1

    'That someone can still struggle while on our welfare system due to extreme circumstances isn't an argument. Thats like saying the person who was on welfare as a student and ended up becoming rich down the track proves our system is perfect.'

    sure - big numbers may impress - but all politics is personal - and people tend to judge everything on their personal feelings (aka prejudice) at the time

    your 'slav'/ic ? perspective may be from someone who is more right wing and whose personal hate is paying taxes - why should I support dole bludgers, etc.

    people who are currently suffering due to problems in the system don't tend to appreciate being preached to by someone telling them the system is wonderful.

    • SlavOz on 28/03/2020 - 11:39
      -1

      sure - big numbers may impress - but all politics is personal - and people tend to judge everything on their personal feelings (aka prejudice) at the time

      I agree, but we shouldnt consider that a good thing. Politics and personal prejudice are a dangerous mix. People should judge things rationally and with retrospect rather than going by what their emotions lead them to believe.

      I support someone's right to think and feel our welfare system sucks but that doesnt mean its true. There is an objective and rational case to be made that our welfare system is very good, despite what someone may feel.

      your 'slav'/ic ? perspective may be from someone who is more right wing and whose personal hate is paying taxes -

      My slavic perspective comes from growing up in a country that refuses to treat it's citizens half as good as Australia treats theirs. I have no problem with taxes. Australia gave me and my family a home when we first moved here and supported us with welfare, free healthcare and other things when we were struggling. Now we're doing OK financially. The system did its job.

      In order for welfare to work people need to do their own part while receiving it. Going on it and complaining that it's not high enough is not a good start. Going on it, being grateful, and spending your energy looking for other forms of income is the better way to go. If a slavic immigrant with no money, no friends, and no English can feed a family of 8 on welfare back in the 90s, then forgive me for feeling sceptical that some young couple living in the hip metro hub of Marickville, an extremely expensive area, can't make it.

      • unelectric on 28/03/2020 - 11:59
        +6

        can feed a family of 8 on welfare back in the 90s

        Unfortunately Newstart payment rates are still stuck in the 90s while the cost of living has risen.

        This reminds me of people who talk about buying their house in the 1970s: "I bought my house when I was 27, why can't you?"

        young couple living in the hip metro hub of Marickville

        I didn't realise people on welfare all lived in trendy suburbs. Can you provide a source?

        • SlavOz on 28/03/2020 - 13:05
          -1

          Unfortunately Newstart payment rates are still stuck in the 90s while the cost of living has risen.

          The average number of children per family has also gone down. Ain't no Aussie families these days with 8 kids. The average is much less and a significant portion of couples don't have any. It doesn't matter how much cheaper it was to live back in the 90, when you have that many kids to feed you're gonna struggle.

          I didn't realise people on welfare all lived in trendy suburbs. Can you provide a source?

          I didnt say they all did, but a lot of them do. We didn't hear much about the lines at Mt Druitt Centrelink being full (though I'm sure they were). It was the Centrelink offices in Marickville and Redfern that made the news, with lines stretching kilometres back.

          If Marickville and Redfern are local for you, you're a disgrace to human kind for complaining about the cost of living.
          https://mobile.twitter.com/jackbegbie/status/124219750447869…

          I spot at least 3 in that que with iPhones.

          • unelectric on 28/03/2020 - 13:15
            +3

            @SlavOz: It's a long line of recently unemployed people. Here's a hint: they are probably in that line because they've never received welfare before. You cannot make a claim without a customer reference number and you cannot get a customer reference number without verifying your identity in person.

            • SlavOz on 28/03/2020 - 13:37

              @unelectric: That's besides the point. If I saw Centrelink offices overcrowded in Mt Druitt or Fairfield, Sydney's enclave of shitholes (coming from someone who lives nearby), I wouldn't toss a second thought. The lower class around Sydney's trashy areas notably struggle with self hygiene or any form of respectable clothing. It's hard to deny they need help. Not only are they poor, they're unemployable.

              Lining up at Marickville or Redfern with an iPhone and the latest catalogue of hipster clothing doesn't put you in that same category. Try living somewhere more affordable before complaining that Sydney's most expensive areas are too expensive.

              Perhaps instead of flocking to Centrelink to help you keep up with the rent on your prime location apartment, they should've flocked to real estate agents asking for a cheaper place to live. They could be saving $300 a week just by moving 30km further out, but I guess that 30km's is more important to them than food on the table - and you expect me to pay for their hipster lifestyle? No.

              • unelectric on 28/03/2020 - 14:09
                +3

                @SlavOz: You are suggesting that thousands of people who just lost their jobs should break their leases and find a place in Mt Druitt? Change the kids school, hire a removalist, and start canvassing for jobs in Mt Druitt?

                • SlavOz on 28/03/2020 - 17:41
                  -1

                  @unelectric: No, I'm suggesting they should've done that a long time ago. If you're accomodation eats up all your income to the point where you're living pay cheque to pay cheque, you have nobody to blame but yourself. You chose to waste your money on a LUXURY which you obviously couldn't afford. That's no different to buying an $80,000 BMW when you could've bought a $12,000 Corolla. Try giving up some of your luxuries before you complain.

                  Losing your job or becoming unable to work are always logical possibilities that responsible adults need to plan for. It's a shame nobody did. They wanted to live in Sydney's nicest areas because a roof over their head anywhere else simply wasn't good enough for them. How is that the taxpayers problem?

                  Welfare is supposed to help the poor, not the greedy.

              • SydStrand on 28/03/2020 - 16:25
                +3

                @SlavOz:

                If Marickville and Redfern are local for you, you're a disgrace to human kind for complaining about the cost of living.

                Now I'm sure you're trolling. There is no indication that these people in the Centrelink line are homeowners in Marrickville or Redfern, which would support your theory of panhandling rich. But you know who RENTS in these suburbs? Students.

                They could be saving $300 a week just by moving 30km further out

                WTF are you talking about? 'Saving $300?' Do you seriously think each of these guys are renting a house? I'd be shocked if any are paying more than $200 per room. And quit it with the 'just move further out' remark. You know nothing about their circumstances. I rented in Redfern while studying because it allowed me to live within walking distance of campus, so I didn't have to own a car or pay for public transport.

                Lining up at Marickville or Redfern with an iPhone and the latest catalogue of hipster clothing doesn't put you in that same category

                So an iPhone automatically invalidates you from getting welfare? You should lobby Centrelink to pull the MyGov app off the App Store, then, since they have no right to own an iPhone while receiving benefits. I see you're also a fashion expert too. Please, tell us how much you reckon that 'latest catalogue of hipster clothing' (aka jeans and tee shirt) costs. Shame on them for not wearing potato sacks.

      • syousef on 28/03/2020 - 12:03
        +2

        Well look who made themselves the arbiter of what's right and true. You grew up in a bad place, came to a better one, and yet want to make this as bad or worse.

        The truth is it's not practical for someone on a living wage to be able to create a reserve to weather many months or even years of hardship. That's a fantasy.

        Btw this isn't the goddamn 90s. The world's a very different place. What worked for you back then won't work for others.

        I can't believe this message board is so toxic that it allows your rant to continue.

        Admins are completely full of baloney about supporting mental health.

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