How can anyone possibly complain about Australian welfare?

SlavOz on 26/03/2020 - 11:31
Last edited 30/03/2020 - 14:51 by 1 other user

I'm sorry, but I have to vent here. I probably deserve the dose of stupidity I've experienced the last couple of days because it's my fault for spending so much time reading social media, but I really can't fathom how so many of our people have the nerve to complain about Australia's welfare system.

Our welfare is so good that the main complaint against it in recent years has been that it's too good. We have among the highest rates of tax redistribution in the world and have rightfully earned the moniker of a "welfare state".

Now we suddenly have a massive influx of unemployment, and Centrelink has agreed to waive the requirements to means test or even prove that you're looking for another job, and people are still complaining!

Where is this coming from? Have we really bred an entire generation of adult brats who have been taught that the world is an injustice if they don't get exactly what they want, when they want it?

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Comments

            • dmac on 27/03/2020 - 11:33
              +5

              @HighAndDry: Yes it is beyond some people. Some people have disabilities that reduce how much they can work, so they might be doing the best they can. What do you want from those people? It seems like you have worked as hard as you can and you want to be sure that other people are. I'm on Centrelink because I've been studying and working a casual job. Having Centrelink as a backup when I don't have enough work provides stability so that I can finish my masters. My partner has chronic fatigue syndrome, she has to limit herself because if she overworks it means she might not be able to the next day.

              Almost everyone I have met who doesn't work, wants to work. I understand that there are a lot of people who are working that don't want to work and see welfare as an easy way out. So, why aren't they doing it?
              1. It's not easy, the welfare process is incredibly time-consuming and pointless at times.
              2. People enjoy working or contributing to society in some way.

              Overall, welfare can provide stability for a lot of people who with that stability can go on and achieve more for society. My partner has been working in education and mental health, without the support of welfare, she would have struggled to work hospo or retail - which she probably couldn't manage a day a week. Now she is working 3-4 days a week as a teacher.

              • HighAndDry on 27/03/2020 - 11:45
                +2

                @dmac: If you're not working enough to even support yourself and are relying on welfare, how much are you really contributing - as opposed to siphoning - from society?

              • SlavOz on 27/03/2020 - 14:00
                -1

                @dmac:

                It's not easy, the welfare process is incredibly time-consuming and pointless at times.

                Yet you cite that as a reason as to why people are remaining on welfare?

                Sounds like you answered your own question. The process is a waste of time for minimal gain. You can make much better use of your time by looking for a job and learning new skills to make yourself employable.

                A simple factory job will get you around $700 a week. You can find a cheap place on rent for $200 a week in Sydney. That leaves $500 for food and other bills. You can also attend night classes for Uni if you need to work during the day.

                Is all of this some incomprehensible burden to the average Aussie?

        • HighAndDry on 27/03/2020 - 10:23
          -1

          Sure, but one who doesn't need to rely on the government to give me an allowance like a child.

  • voiletmay on 26/03/2020 - 17:07
    +13

    I'm finding reading peoples comments about this awful too. I am in a NDIS facebook group (I have a disabled son) and holy moly, the nastiness there to people getting extra welfare is beyond belief. The govt is trying to prop up the ecomony by giving people extra money and trying to help those in a very bad situation right now. It's a temporary measure because life is insane right now.

    • [Deactivated] on 26/03/2020 - 17:57
      +6

      trying to help those in a very bad situation right now

      Genuinely curious as to how your son's situation is worse now than it was pre-covid19? In Vic, where I am , most of the community inclusion programs for people with disabilities have been cancelled. I know this because I usually volunteer with children with special needs during the school holidays. I personally know 4 casual disability support workers who work at day centres who are out of work. So how is giving more money to your son helping to "prop up the economy"? Is he spending it on other services? Like I said, I'm genuinely curious.

      • voiletmay on 26/03/2020 - 19:34
        +1

        My son has autism (he is 20), had ndis funding and attends a day program twice a week (he goes to bowling & the library on one day and the movies and the library - my son loves libraries - the other day.

        I rung up a few weeks ago and told them that my son wouldn't be attendig anymore unti the coronovirus is over. I have an eldery mother with extremely severe asthma, so not taking any risk, as if I get sick, I will not be able to help her (and there is no one else). If she gets sick she will die, her lung capacity is already nearly non existent. My elderly mother takes priority over everything else in my situation.

        The ndis funding will just sit in his account untouched.

        I honestly wish that the NDIS allowed for clients to keep paying our providers, but that does not appear to be the case. That would keep them all operational. I mean the money just sits NDIS accounts and will not get used (I reckon I have over $10,000 more than I need, maybe more), not like we can use it for any other purpose. I would love to be able to give it to my sons provider their business can survive.

        Realy sucks for them, it's an awful situation.

        • [Deactivated] on 26/03/2020 - 20:50
          +1

          Thank you. It is quite ironic that your son has so much money in his account and yet neither you nor him can get any benefit from it. And yes, I doubt many service providers will survive this pandemic.
          I hope your son is coping well with the changes in his routine. All the best to your family. Stay safe :)

    • Emerald Owl on 26/03/2020 - 19:23
      +2

      My neighbours have a disabled son. The government pays for two carers to come in every day, dog walkers, a cleaner and someone to do lawn maintenance. They also have other adults children at home who do nothing. The parents work half days and spend the other half day exercising. They recently held a fundraiser for him and the week after she bought a brand new BMW convertible, replacing one only two years old. Prove me wrong but disability payments were too high before the NDIS and now they are absolutely ridiculous. Someone who is disabled gets more money than a low-middle income worker.

      How is your son's finances worse than pre-Coronavirus?

      • greatlamp on 27/03/2020 - 07:49
        +2

        Being disabled is expensive, more expensive than not being disabled and working a minimum wage job.

        Most people who are disabled aren't buying convertible BMWs, they are living simple lives while their families also give up income to take care of them.

        If your neighbours are scammers and drug dealers then report them, rather than wanting to cut money for the people who are not scammers.

  • sardines on 26/03/2020 - 17:09
    +5

    The issue is centrelink- they are short staffed, under funded and parts of it's services are outsourced. There is also little training so it's hard when the system is overloaded and they cannot process all the requests. I don't think many here can comment on payment amount unless you lived off them without any family support. Our 5be casual and gig economy has also made things worse

  • Eeples on 26/03/2020 - 17:23
    +9

    OP maybe middle class welfare ought to be reduced/ended too?

    private health insurance rebate
    the baby bonus
    family payments
    superannuation tax concessions
    Negative gearing
    Tax imputation credits
    Disability support pension (blind) [not income or means tested]

    • HighAndDry on 26/03/2020 - 18:10
      +1

      In return for paying less taxes? Sure.

      This is the difference: the people receiving "middle class welfare" pay taxes for those. The people receiving actual welfare don't.

      And don't talk about how they've paid taxes before - they've benefited from public services and other utilities while they were paying taxes already too.

      • 91rs on 26/03/2020 - 18:15

        Many of those receiving those payments (baby bonus, family payments, etc) are often paying less in tax than they are receiving from the govt in handouts, so they were not only offsetting their tax completely in benefits but coming away with extra!

      • [Deactivated] on 26/03/2020 - 21:49
        +1

        Guess this guy's never heard of GST!

        • 91rs on 26/03/2020 - 22:00
          +1

          which is unrelated to income tax.
          Yes we all pay GST, however I also pay income tax and have nothing to offset it (family payments, baby bonus, childcare stuff, whatever) that could mean the government rebates me MORE than I pay in tax at the end of the year. ;)

      • Eeples on 26/03/2020 - 22:03
        +3

        It’s telling that you don’t view these as ‘actual’ welfare.

        These (like other welfare) are applied for.

        Where is the righteous indignation against our system and of those applying for such handouts?

        Nowhere.

        • 91rs on 27/03/2020 - 10:14
          +2

          Oh they are handouts, it is welfare. I view it the same way, if you can't afford children then do not have them. However thats not good for a future tax base for the govt to piss away so they throw money at people (welfare) to have children.
          However given the amount who get it, the only ones who complain are often those with no children as those with children are happy to take it and almost expect it to be given to them.
          Don't start me on Negative gearing either, same deal.
          Given how many people are getting this welfare so many are very judging of others who also get it but for another reason, like unemployment.

  • outlander on 26/03/2020 - 17:50
    +5

    Because it's inefficient.

    As a society, nay as a species, we spend more keeping others down than it would take to just placate them, all to protect some strange sense of 'justice'.

    It's utterly absurd. Governments around the world spend more on making people jump through hoops to prove they are 'worthy', than it would be to just give them a decent standard of living. Seems like a big waste of time and resources to me.

    • HighAndDry on 26/03/2020 - 18:12
      +1

      than it would take to just placate them

      Because you're only looking one step forward. The next step beyond just placating people who complain, is that more people will complain because it's more profitable to do that.

      • outlander on 26/03/2020 - 18:31

        Complainers can only complain when those that are willing to listen, listen.

        • HighAndDry on 26/03/2020 - 19:03

          Seems like the solution is that no one should listen, so that they'll complain less.

    • [Deactivated] on 26/03/2020 - 18:24
      +1

      Governments around the world spend more on making people jump through hoops

      Quite a few of those hoops have been removed. For instance, the government has waived the requirements to be means tested or to provide evidence that they are actively looking for another job.

      we spend more keeping others down than it would take to just placate them,

      Hard to do that when everyone seems to think that they are worse off than everyone else and they should be allowed to jump the queue.

      • outlander on 26/03/2020 - 18:40
        +1

        You are an individual with some strange values, Jay Jay. Weren't you arguing for more compassionate treatment of poor people only a few months ago, or did I imagine that?

        Quite a few of those hoops have been removed

        Oh, you're talking about the newly jobless. Yes, I imagine they would be complaining right about now. They'd have to. When you've lived so long by the party line that unemployed people are 'scum' and 'worthless bludgeons' and life would be better if you just ground them all up for dogmeat, and then you find yourself needing that very same assistance…. well, you need to do something to not feel so ashamed and vulnerable.

        Complaining is one way people stay on the strong side of the power dynamic.

        • [Deactivated] on 26/03/2020 - 18:49
          +1

          Weren't you arguing for more compassionate treatment of poor people only a few months ago, or did I imagine that?

          Yes I was and I still am. It's the whinging that's getting to me, especially coming from those who are not technically "poor".

          • outlander on 26/03/2020 - 20:13
            +1

            @[Deactivated]: That's the dynamics of groups, I'm afraid. If a group gets large enough, every possible behavior is going to be found with it. It's up to the observer on what they choose to focus on.

            Even among those rescued from the titanic, I'm sure there was someone who was complaining about something trivial.

          • ddn2004 on 27/03/2020 - 08:49
            +1

            @[Deactivated]: Wait, so you're hating people receiving more money, or people who had "Secure" jobs only a few weeks ago complaining about dole bludgers, and then complaining about the system when they were stood down/laid off and had to use it?

      • Forfiet on 27/03/2020 - 08:57

        " to provide evidence that they are actively looking for another job" Are you sure?

  • 91rs on 26/03/2020 - 18:12
    +7

    Its well known Australia is the hand out country, I've been in Malaysia and had locals I was dealing with who were speaking highly of Australia and their desire to come to Australia and get a PR\Citizenship and then was able to tell me the amounts the govt gives out in welfare and then on top of that the amounts and rebates for when you have children, they thought it was amazing. I asked how they knew so much, its advertised in local papers up there with become a K-POP star it was to migrate to Australia due to how generous we apparently are.
    That said being a Kiwi I've not been entitled to shit, so in the very few times when I was without a job (companies that went under during GFC etc) I was very much on my own until I found more work.

    • Emerald Owl on 26/03/2020 - 19:27
      +4

      Worse is theyve waived the new resident waiting period for welfare and may even give it to non-permanent residents. What. a. joke.

  • BertieBrown on 26/03/2020 - 18:16
    +16

    Something I’m often left wondering when reading through these threads like these, is why?

    Why as a modern, wealthy, politically stable, safe, peaceful country do we, by default, have some of our most vulnerable people living on the poverty line? Why is that the assumed, expected status quo? Furthermore, why are so many people so ready, and eager to defend such an arrangement?

    Why instead isn’t it our aspiration as a people, a community, and a country, that those without have at least a reasonable quality of life, and that we would take immense pride that no Australian would ever suffer because they couldn’t find work?

    So many commenters seem ready to make massively general assumptions about huge numbers of people who will, and do expensive real suffering, for instance; anybody not working not only can, but should live in poverty, or, anybody not working is unemployed because they’re lazy, stupid, or incompetent.

    Is this really the kind of country we want to be? The kind of people we want to be? Where, if for whatever reason you find yourself out of work, and you put your hand up, justifiably, legitimately, and cry out, there will be a long line of salivating on-lookers just aching to poke, prod, and erupt in what seems to be some sort twisted pride, in consistently reminding these unemployed people that they have less, and they have more.

    If nothing else COVID-19 has demonstrated that actual ‘job value’ is relative.

    • [Deactivated] on 26/03/2020 - 18:37
      +1

      Where, if for whatever reason you find yourself out of work, and you put your hand up, justifiably, legitimately, and cry out, there will be a long line of salivating on-lookers just aching to poke, prod, and erupt in what seems to be some sort twisted pride, in consistently reminding these unemployed people that they have less, and they have more.

      Is this what is happening here though? People are complaining about how long it's taking to receive the welfare payments they are entitled to. They will get it ; they just have to be patient.

      • BertieBrown on 26/03/2020 - 18:49
        +2

        No you’re right, Centrelink only has so many resources, and this is an unprecedented situation, so in that respect there’s only so much that can be practically done to see to every person’s initial request.

        I was speaking to welfare being inadequate for day-day life.

        • Emerald Owl on 26/03/2020 - 19:29
          +3

          Because the only way that society exists is if everyone is working. Many people will not work if they can get on welfare. This is the old socialism v capitalism debate. Capitalism allows people to make more money and thus be more generous.

          • hairy1egs on 27/03/2020 - 00:57
            +4

            @Emerald Owl: Rubbish why have so many employers been underpaying their staff then? If they are
            supposedly more generous

            • Emerald Owl on 27/03/2020 - 01:16
              +3

              @hairy1egs: I'm sorry to say but with our minimum wage being so high, they are overpaid. Someone working at 7/11 isnt worth over $20 an hour.

    • ThithLord on 27/03/2020 - 08:52
      +1

      Well said, Jawanzar.

  • Ononono on 26/03/2020 - 18:17
    +1

    Payments should have been increased to match inflation long ago and people have every right to be frustrated by Centrelink's inefficiency. Apart from those problems, I think our social services are very generous. When I tell my international friends and family about things like HECS, Newstart, YA, pensioners support, they are blown away and can't believe it. People here take it for granted and don't know how good they have it.

    People need to adjust their lifestyle expectations and understand that they can't maintain a comfortable cushy lifestyle on welfare. If you just lost your job then you need to change your lifestyle accordingly. I lived off YA during uni so I know it's not easy but it's better than being homeless and starving which is a reality for most countries in the world.

  • moonleaf on 26/03/2020 - 18:36
    +2

    Why Centrelink does not exclude eligibility rules to those long term unemployed by choice instead they will automatically get the stimulus package as well without the need to do anything.

  • Brucet on 26/03/2020 - 18:39

    Same old songs.

  • cuckchump on 26/03/2020 - 18:51
    +7

    govt shouldve just kept it at 550 a fortnight for everyone else, instead of the 1100 for 6months, should cover the basics of living, not help them pay the mortgage cause they over leverage themselves with debt, hence whats the point of 1100 for 6months if nothing is open??….. so what happens after 6months when the 1100 returns to 550? another package to bail out the welfare person?

    • Emerald Owl on 26/03/2020 - 19:30
      -3

      The more the government is like labor, the more labor votes they will get. They campaign to the right and then govern to the left. very sneaky.

      • ThithLord on 27/03/2020 - 08:53
        +1

        lmao mate, whatever you're smoking, I'll have some of that. What a categorically ridiculous thing to say.

  • Herbse on 26/03/2020 - 19:31
    +12

    The reason payments are being doubled for everyone is jobseeker/newstart payments are purposefully low to create an incentive to find a job. Now with the virus, and further unemployment, the government has accepted that the people already on jobseeker will definitely not find a job, so payments have been increased to a closer to livable standard until jobs return.

    If welfare wasn't enough for people to not just live on, but also feel like a part of society, these people would turn to crimes and thefts, making everyone unsafe.

    Thanks to this virus, a lot of "hard working" people will come into hard times and will probably find it difficult to bounce back because of many factors. And they will then be classified as the "long term unemployment" scumbags they like to call welfare recipients.

  • andgucps on 26/03/2020 - 19:33
    +15

    The way some of the commenters are talking, they're practically asking for jobless people to get desperate without food, accommodation, or security and start resorting to crime!

    Don't forget that desperate people can be dangerous when thrown to the streets.
    It's called social security. If you want to live in a world where the people at the bottom must rob to live, then remember that you will be their target. Say whatever you like about 'you should've saved more, or worked harder'- but when there's no money, no food, no work, they'll be putting a knife to your throat and asking for your savings.

    Just think about that.

      • miicah on 26/03/2020 - 20:19
        +4

        before they dont get my savings is the barrel of shotgun.

        Enjoy going to jail for manslaughter then. There are no home defense laws that would allow you to shoot someone in Australia.

      • toblerone21 on 26/03/2020 - 20:25
        +4

        you can hardly put a sentence together, who's going to let you have a gun?

        • happirt on 26/03/2020 - 21:18
          +1

          Americans, as long as you have the cash

      • SydStrand on 27/03/2020 - 02:27
        +6

        That's why, on a completely separate note, I'm an avid supporter of gun ownership.

        You sound like a wonderful human being. Shame on anyone who upvotes or condones comments like this.

    • outlander on 26/03/2020 - 20:23
      +4

      I'd like to make a little addendum to this, because I've heard this argument before, and like SlavOz it doesn't really bother me too much. If they want to start a knife fight, lets go. We'll see whose entrails paints the floor first.

      But that's not really the risk. Desperate people don't attack the strong. They put aside any morals they might held and go after the weak.

      You can polish your shotgun with tears, load it with bullets of rage, and hunt down the perpetrators, but its not going to bring back your wife/daughter/mother/grandmother after they've been bludgeoned for the $6.20 in their pocket.

    • [Deactivated] on 27/03/2020 - 08:20
      +2

      people to get desperate without food, accommodation, or security and start resorting to crime!

      but when there's no money, no food, no work, they'll be putting a knife to your throat and asking for your savings.

      I'll acknowledge that the above is a logical reason for welfare but let's not pretend like it is not what it sounds like - paying a ransom.

      If/when I have to pay a ransom, it generally comes with a sense of loathing.

  • mskeggs on 26/03/2020 - 20:43
    +21

    Lots of people in this thread have unbounded confidence they will never need help.

    • [Deactivated] on 26/03/2020 - 21:51
      +7

      The word you're looking for is privilege. Must be nice to have been so removed from ever needing help that you can't even conceptualise it.

      • freakatronic on 26/03/2020 - 22:34
        +4

        Must be nice being so dependent that you can't even conceptualise independence.

        Goes both ways.

      • HighAndDry on 27/03/2020 - 01:44
        +6

        No, it's a concept called saving for a rainy day.

      • [Deactivated] on 27/03/2020 - 07:52
        +6

        Or you know, have had to struggle so much that you refuse to go back to that place again. For some of us, once was enough.

    • [Deactivated] on 26/03/2020 - 23:43
      +4

      Need help? Yes.

      By holding my hands out for dole? No.

    • SlavOz on 27/03/2020 - 08:34

      Where did this come from? Nobody in this thread has said that welfare is completely useless and should be abolished. People have gotten so defensive over their free money they've completely ignored what's actually being discussed here.

      Nobody has a problem with welfare. We all acknowledge that it makes sense. The issue here is how people view it. Some believe it should be a last resort that is not supposed to make you feel good, others believe it should be a normalised handout that we should seek whenever we overspend on our lifestyle.

      The reason I started this thread was actually to praise the Australian welfare system and point out how good we have it. Nobody is saying we shouldn't help the poor - we're saying the poor should be grateful for the generous system of welfare in this country instead of complaining en masse that their free money isn't coming fast enough.

      • triviums on 27/03/2020 - 10:39
        +2

        One of the many reasons why people are complaining about the government giving money out is because they are being hypocritical with who they give it to.

        A lot of the money that the government gives out for free is given to major corporations and those in the top tax bracket.

        What about me? It isn't fair
        I've had enough, now I want my share
        Can't you see, I want to live
        But you just take more than you give

        • sakurashu on 27/03/2020 - 13:17
          -1

          Because those major corporations create a huge number of jobs in the economy (do you not see the thousands every day who are out of work now as they close down?) and because those in the top tax bracket are paying a huge amount of tax. As has been said before on this exact post as well - they receive subsidies against the taxes they are already paying, not free money. They therefore just pay less tax as incentives to keep their business with Australia.

          Look at Florida or Seattle against California - Which one would you rather work in? The states with no state tax or the state with a huge state tax? There's a reason those states operate that way and it isn't because they hate the poor and love the rich.

          I've been on welfare support and I used HECS and I am eternally grateful for both; I still don't think doubling the benefit is a good idea. The focus should be on limiting bills and supporting people through mortgage and rent strife and an increase in food banks/affordable options but the government is still just trying to prop up the failing economy in the easiest way they know how, by throwing some money directly at the problem.

      • SydStrand on 27/03/2020 - 13:55
        +3

        People have gotten so defensive over their free money

        Oh, sod off with this 'free money' rhetoric. Secondly, 'their?' I haven't been on welfare in years. I don't mind that a portion of the taxes I'm currently paying because I'm fortunate to have a job deemed 'essential,' is helping people who need it through this difficult time. It's called being an adult.

        Nobody has a problem with welfare.

        Actually, looks like there are several people including yourself have a problem with welfare, whether it's outright vifilication of recipients to belittling their struggles. Only a truly mean-spirited individual or someone with a child's worldview honestly believes that road bumps don't exist, everyone can simply get a job, and that joblessness is just a matter of choice.

        If you honestly believe these things, then follow through, and own your awful opinions instead of backtracking and saying 'oh, I don't have a problem with welfare recipients, only the lazy ones!.' Okay, so then why did you suggest recipients were opportunistically using Centrelink payments to fund 'comfortable lifestyles' and pay off a mortgage? Do you honest-to-god, believe this is the real picture for the majority of people on Centrelink, or are you painting with a broad brush for dramatic effect?

        The reason I started this thread was actually to praise the Australian welfare system and point out how good we have it.

        Australia has a robust welfare system, but we shouldn't be comparing ourselves to the likes of Malaysia or China. We can aspire to take care of our needy because we're lucky enough to be able to afford it. However, these are trying times and a degree of distress is understandable if not expected. Many people were struggling to make ends meet even before this crisis, and now have to wonder how they'll pay for basics like rent and food. They have every right to be frustrated by Centrelink's inefficiencies, by MyGov crashing, and a minister whose response to overwhelming demand is 'my bad.' But sure, shame on these 'brats' for complaining!

        • SlavOz on 27/03/2020 - 14:07
          -1

          Australia has a robust welfare system, but we shouldn't be comparing ourselves to the likes of Malaysia or China.

          Yup, woe be to us poor Australians for not having a government as generous and progressive as China - the country that started this virus, covered it up, and proceeded to chain people inside their houses in response. This the same China responsible for the Tieneman Square massacre in response to public protests or that blocks their people from accessing Google or Facebook.

          If only we could be more like China he says.

          I hope you book the first flight over that to human-rights violating shithole as soon as the border reopens.

          • SydStrand on 27/03/2020 - 17:00
            +5

            @SlavOz:

            I hope you book the first flight over that to human-rights violating shithole as soon as the border reopens.

            Wow. Congrats on completely misinterpreting a clear indictment of China's safety net and going on an unhinged, Trumpist rant.

            Let's go over this real slow, just so you can keep up! Our safety net is unreservedly better than many countries like China or Malaysia, but just because worse safety nets exist, does NOT make ours perfect. We're a wealthy country that can afford to support our needy without broadly shaming and vilifying generations or classes of people. Just because poorer nations exist, does not mean you can say 'don't complain, because we're not Iran.'

            • SlavOz on 27/03/2020 - 20:17
              -2

              @SydStrand: We don't need to compare ourselves to China or Iran. We have a welfare system that still competes with the top OECD countries, some of which also don't offer nearly as much variety as us when it comes to government support. Eg - HECS loans, Medicare, Opal, etc. Those dont always exist in other countries.

  • happirt on 26/03/2020 - 21:10
    +1

    probably because the government is scared of a social collapse, riots and other crime rising more than anything - the last thing they need right now… the poor will get their supplies one way or another

    • mskeggs on 27/03/2020 - 00:25
      +1

      Think about the words you are using here.
      By calling them the poor, you are saying there are people who should have hungry kids and let them go hungry.
      If society isn’t organised in a way that provides “supplies” to people who need them, the fault doesn’t lie with the unsupplied.
      Is your belief in welfare restrictions or whatever so strong you would go hungry yourself or let your children go hungry? If you lost your job and didn’t have money to feed your kids, would you think everything was fair if other people had plenty to eat and lots of investments, or would you think maybe they should have fewer investments so you also had enough to eat?
      If you think feeding people is a basic thing, do you think also they should be housed? Should they get medical care?
      I really think the unemployment right now in low wage jobs like hospitality and retail is going to result in people struggling to feed their kids, and struggling to pay their rent very soon.
      I think you are dead right that this is very serious for a very large number of people.

      • HighAndDry on 27/03/2020 - 01:45
        +5

        If society isn’t organised in a way that provides “supplies” to people who need them,

        It's not society's job to feed otherwise able bodied adults. They're adults, not children, and they shouldn't need to be parented like children.

        • happirt on 27/03/2020 - 13:25

          in survival, anything is fair. i hope you're ready with a shotgun saying that crap. this is not a tv show either.

  • abc123z on 26/03/2020 - 21:19
    +1

    Pensioner whinging on facebook the other day about how they didn't get the extra $550 that the unemployed got.

    Another pensioner chimed in on a conversation about rent relief for the recently unemployed, to say what about pensioners?

    The pensioners are no worse off than they were before, and are getting 2 x $750 handouts, the pension was always much more than the dole anyway, but of course they should get the full $550 shouldn't they and their landlord should also cut their rent too even they might have lost their job as well! And one of the main reasons so many businesses have been shut down and there are so many people unemployed is to protect the eldery!

    And it's not as if getting old was some totally unexpected, sudden thing that happened like this situation. They had their whole life to prepare for it.

    I find the pensioners whinging right now much worse than the unemployed complaining about the current situation. After all the government deliberately shut down their workplaces in many cases, wouldn't anyone feel that they are entitled to some help in that situation?

    • SlavOz on 27/03/2020 - 13:38

      LOL. The whole world has put itself into lockdown, pissing away billions of dollars in GDP and risking mass recession, purely because the risk that this virus is posing for old people…and they have the nerve to complain??

  • freakatronic on 26/03/2020 - 22:32
    -2

    End all welfare. At the same time, end all taxation. There's plenty of money out there without the thieving government getting in the way. Parasites! The welfare dependent enable the government and the government enables the welfare dependent. It's the circle of parasitic life. They're two giant swamp ticks burrowing into each other in an ouroboros of parasitism. It will never end until we're rid of both of them.

    • [Deactivated] on 26/03/2020 - 23:52
      +8

      I am okay with both welfare and taxation.

      I am not okay with welfare being marketed as an entitlement and without stigma. To need welfare is a sign of failure and the problems start by pretending it is anything but.

      I am okay with taxation as funds are required for the necessary implements that allow a nation to maintain sovereignty and to manage natural monopolies such as roads, police and fire brigades.

      Having said that, the government does use welfare as a voting block. It is using tax payers' funds against the taxpayer.

      • hairy1egs on 27/03/2020 - 01:15
        -1

        Like negative gearing and franking credits for the rich? Don't forget if you have solar panels on your roof it's the poor who pay the most for electricity so they can subsidise your rebate

        • HighAndDry on 27/03/2020 - 01:47
          +5

          I feel you're talking about concepts you don't even begin to understand. For one thing, both are governments taking less money, not governments giving out money which welfare is.

        • RockyRaccoon on 27/03/2020 - 03:36
          +1

          If hairy1egs would like to see Australian businesses grow and provide jobs, you wouldn’t include franking credits as part of the issue. Firstly the recent issue was franking credits for those who don’t pay tax, not the rich. Pensioners supplementing their income.

          That aside, franking credits are available to investors in Australian companies, investment in overseas companies doesn’t get franking credits. It was a method to get Australian businesses supported, and make it harder for overseas companies to buy them out.

        • sakurashu on 27/03/2020 - 13:20

          A common misconception about franking credits that I too had until recently is that you don't pay any tax on that income. This is only correct if you are at or below the corporate tax threshold of 30% for which the Corporation has already paid the tax. If you are in a higher tax bracket, you have to pay the difference.

    • vindictus on 27/03/2020 - 06:44
      +1

      This is a bad take and you should feel bad

  • Ughhh on 26/03/2020 - 22:41
    +2

    There definitely a culture of "what about me?" mentality, expecting everyone to do stuff for them that they didn't want to do for themself.

  • Gecko on 26/03/2020 - 22:51
    +12

    Oh my, I hope this thread isn't representative of the average Australian or we're even worse off than I thought.

  • tapuz on 26/03/2020 - 23:51
    +3

    Our welfare is so good that the main complaint against it in recent years has been that it's too good. We have among the highest rates of tax redistribution in the world and have rightfully earned the moniker of a "welfare state".(c) Such a pathetic joke. Compare with what?https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jul/23/one-of-the-worst-how-newstart-compares-to-unemployment-payments-in-rest-of-the-world

  • OhNoUShiz on 27/03/2020 - 01:09
    +6

    All I am bitching about is why average joe Iike me paying tax yearly gets nothing at all.

    • popsiee on 27/03/2020 - 08:36
      +4

      You actually are helping all these fine folk keep their heads above the water due to no fault of their own !

  • Mage on 27/03/2020 - 02:36
    +10

    I'm just suprised people think like this.

    It baffles me that people cannot consider the different situations Australians live in. People complain about the system because it isn't working, that's why they're complaining. Like at a basic level you must just fail at having a shred of empathy. You must have no understanding of how the world works.

  • abuch47 on 27/03/2020 - 04:06
    +1

    Thee hottest takes on this personal liberty, neolib hellhole.

  • wonderboy on 27/03/2020 - 05:05
    +9

    I hope everyone who agrees with the welfare being great loses their jobs, goes on centrelink and sees the error of their ways.

    I guarantee everyone will have a different opinion after a week on work for the dole.

    • vindictus on 27/03/2020 - 06:42
      +4

      Yep all these idiots going on about welfare queens and people who love it have never spent any time on welfare, without a job or living on the edge of a budget.

      • abuch47 on 28/03/2020 - 05:29

        I've never spent any time on the dole. Welfare is the greatest system we have and should be reworked into a UBI to survive this crisis and the next.

        If you feed the horse enough oats some will pass through to the road for the sparrows

    • ThithLord on 27/03/2020 - 09:07
      +3

      It's very sad but also explains why there is such a huge divide between the haves and have-nots.

  • fozzie on 27/03/2020 - 07:27
    +1

    I agree with you 100%

    First of all I’m sorry everyone is losing their jobs. However,
    I couldn’t believe watching the news where people were crying because they were queuing. I am from Italy and have many relatives who have lost their jobs and the government has put nothing in place. My nephew just had a baby and they have a 2 years old and have had no income for the last 3 weeks. None of these relatives are complaining about the loss of their jobs btw. Meanwhile in Australia they cry when they know they will be supported from day 1 (albeit they’ll have to queue).

    • ProlapsedHeinous on 30/03/2020 - 15:06

      I think the crying is more about the whole sudden situation of uncertainty, than having to line up outside Centrelink. It's crazy times out there.

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