How can anyone possibly complain about Australian welfare?

SlavOz on 26/03/2020 - 11:31
Last edited 30/03/2020 - 14:51 by 1 other user

I'm sorry, but I have to vent here. I probably deserve the dose of stupidity I've experienced the last couple of days because it's my fault for spending so much time reading social media, but I really can't fathom how so many of our people have the nerve to complain about Australia's welfare system.

Our welfare is so good that the main complaint against it in recent years has been that it's too good. We have among the highest rates of tax redistribution in the world and have rightfully earned the moniker of a "welfare state".

Now we suddenly have a massive influx of unemployment, and Centrelink has agreed to waive the requirements to means test or even prove that you're looking for another job, and people are still complaining!

Where is this coming from? Have we really bred an entire generation of adult brats who have been taught that the world is an injustice if they don't get exactly what they want, when they want it?

Mod: Discussions are welcome and not everyone has the same point of view. If you are struggling, please see our Mental Health Wiki

Financial

Comments

    • Malmsey on 29/03/2020 - 15:30
      +2

      I see you've bought Scotty from marketing's BS logic using stats without context to make a point.

      The article below breaks it down for you:

      https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/factche…

      "Most welfare recipients of today are yesterday’s taxpayers (older people), while many other welfare programs are designed and put into place in order to allow individuals to either enter or stay in the workforce (such as child care rebates), or provide support to families with children. Getting more people on employers’ payrolls – which, of course, is a positive thing – may not greatly reduce the share of income taxes that go towards welfare."

    • BrokenChairs on 29/03/2020 - 15:37
      +2

      Only 6.7% of Australia's total welfare payments is accounted for by unemployment benefits. Increasing newstart/jobseeker to an amount that actually covers basic necessities isn't unsustainable.

      Further, these recipients will inject this money straight into the economy - paying for basic needs they were sacrificing previously: housing,food, health care, transport. This Reduces the taxpayers burden in other areas - e.g supports businesses, increases gst revenue, people looking after their health sooner means burdening the health system less in the future.

    • Diji on 29/03/2020 - 23:52
      +3

      Your own source puts unemployment benefits at around $11 billion. Unless you think the term dole bludgers refers to recipients of aged pensions and disability support payments, in which case you're one twisted being.

      • Vinodra on 30/03/2020 - 20:12
        +1

        Your own source puts unemployment benefits at around $11 billion. Unless you think the term dole bludgers refers to recipients of aged pensions and disability support payments, in which case you're one twisted being.

        Its pretty clear they are.

  • love2buy on 29/03/2020 - 07:30
    +1

    Aren't governments around the world subsiding workers wages until virus go away? Isn't that a much better approach as everyone keeps their job and business don't have to shut.

    • JohnHowardsEyebrows on 29/03/2020 - 08:48
      +3

      Not here, apparently.

      • Rashed on 29/03/2020 - 10:28
        +1

        In here those who were getting benefits will now get double… thanks to Scotty from Marketing

    • ruddiger7 on 29/03/2020 - 11:29

      You would think that. We aren't even in full lockdown - we are continuing to do this flatten the curve approach where a lot of "essential" workers are still working which may end up costing us even more in the long run especcially if cases continue to climb.

    • SydStrand on 29/03/2020 - 15:25

      Because subsidising wages still requires wages, which means people going to work, which means increased potential for spread.

      • ddn2004 on 30/03/2020 - 09:58

        Subsiding wages allows governments to take more strict measures such as a full lockdown of anything but actual essentials.

    • love2buy on 29/03/2020 - 15:45

      What I mean is gov pay businesses for you to stay at home. Not give extra to those who are already on welfare.

  • misu p on 29/03/2020 - 09:47
    +3

    Imagine how more productive Australia would be if people would not spend the time in the middle of the workday debating stupid shit on the internet.

    • Ghost47 on 31/03/2020 - 12:30

      It's ingrained in the Australian culture, knock off at 3pm for beers on a Friday or any other day of the week because "she'll be right". Too laid back here. If you want productivity look to Singapore, Korea, Japan etc.

  • sleet on 29/03/2020 - 15:52
    +7

    Lol just asked my friend if he is looking for another job. His reply is 'support is for another 6 months'

    This is the view of many welfare recipients. It's become expexted so they don't even care or try.

    • ThithLord on 30/03/2020 - 09:11
      +1

      This is the view of many welfare recipients. It's become expexted so they don't even care or try.

      Wow, you have one mate whom claims this, so you can tar every Newstart recipient with the same brush?

      Why don't you dump your mate, seeing as you're so against their attitude?

      • sleet on 30/03/2020 - 18:09

        LOL reading comprehension is not your strong point. Try again.

        1. I never painted them with that same brush - read it again. I said many, not all. I have been exposed to many welfare recipients through work.

        2. It's my personal view. I don't choose my friends or judge them based on how they use/abuse the welfare system. My friendships are deeper than that.

        3. My family have been on welfare before but we NEVER EVER stopped striving to escape welfare and contribute back into the economy AND help those in need. We strive to do better. Not be complacent on government handouts.

        And that's what it is all about - complacency on handouts. Totally understand the help of help but so many are expecting it and complacent as others have pointed out. That's not the point of a good welfare system.

  • booze101 on 29/03/2020 - 17:22
    +12

    Not sure if also mentioned before but I read somewhere that people are complaining about the quarantine hotels…like seriously. The government is offering places like Novotel and Crown Promenade which are 4/5 star hotels and yet people are complaining of the quality of the bed or food. Like seriously, grow up!

    • zonra on 29/03/2020 - 17:44
      +3

      This is the sort of population we’re dealing with unfortunately.

    • JohnHowardsEyebrows on 29/03/2020 - 18:22
      +2

      Yep. Many people have come off their luxury plague hulks, and have the gall to complain about how uncomfortable they are in hotels which are costing the rest of us countless millions.

    • AustriaBargain on 29/03/2020 - 19:39
      +3

      These hotels are gonna get sooo many bad Yelp and Google reviews from angry quarantineers.

    • BrokenChairs on 30/03/2020 - 00:52
      -1

      I suspect the complaints arise largely from the fact that people feel they're being treated as if they can't be trusted to self isolate in their own home (without police outside their door).

      Obviously a number of cases have occurred because some idiots thought they could break quarantine - but for the majority that quarantined as requested (myself included), I have sympathy for their unhappiness at the situation.

    • Drewbo on 30/03/2020 - 01:15
      +8

      I saw one gentleman on TV complaining that he was told he was being put up in the Hilton only to end up at the Ibis.

      Oh the injustice!

      • Ghost47 on 31/03/2020 - 12:49

        Reading that news makes me realise even more how weak some people are.

    • baldur on 11/04/2020 - 18:24

      entitled new generation.

  • diceman99 on 30/03/2020 - 03:13
    +9

    Yeah I can complain. I don't qualify for anything.
    Savers are punished and people with excess debt are rewarded.
    Time to quit my job and go on the dole

  • macdaddyjordan on 30/03/2020 - 09:34

    are sole traders eligible to apply now? i tried last week and they said i am not eligible

  • echizen on 30/03/2020 - 09:46

    Aussies are just an entitled bunch of brats. I agree that we should help the genuinely poor or less fortunately than us (so long as they are genuine in trying to do better), but seriously, all these tom, dick and harry's coming out of the woodwork for handouts? Don't people actually do any saving at all? or do they just spend and spend and when things go bad…. demand a handout like its their right?

    How entitled and spoilt are Aussies nowadays…. and all this starts from the top (i.e. the Prime Minister) for punishing those who do the right thing and save for a rainy day and reward those who do not. For example, in these times, where is the support for self-funded retiree's whose hard earned savings are being eroded severely by the Government's confusing Covid responses?

    • Bargain80 on 30/03/2020 - 10:38
      +1

      news for you.
      not everyone can save much like you do, not to be able to sped 6 months at home without work.

    • Ghost47 on 31/03/2020 - 12:43

      It starts with ignorance. Not all parents teach their kids to budget or manage money, nor is it taught in schools (well, it wasn't when I was at school, maybe things have changed). Not many people tend to reflect or constantly ask "how do I better myself?" either. I mean just look at how many people over leverage themselves with their mortgage, or take out loans for cars which they end up paying thousands more dollars of interest in and then subsequently get themselves into a whole lot of debt. Managing money might seem simple (i.e. you get paid a certain amount, don't spend more than that) but it's surprisingly not well understood by many people.

      I do agree that Aussies are somewhat entitled though, e.g. people complaining about being put in an Ibis hotel after returning to Sydney instead of the Intercontinental, like harden the (profanity) up weaklings.

      Regarding Tom, Dick and Harries (?) coming out of the woodwork for handouts, I believe that if you are a hard working tax payer in this country and you need help the government should help you as a priority, or that you should deserve help in the first place simply because you've contributed to society unlike the people who mooch off the government for a living (unless of course they are disabled or something).

  • sy8718 on 30/03/2020 - 10:45
    +1

    I remember I read a story before. In one country when people are unemployed and relying on the welfare, the government will not pay them directly. Gov will organise these people to build a brick wall then push it down. Then the people need to build the wall again to get the welfare. The purpose is that everyone knows you need to do something to get paid. Then when there is an opportunity for them to get a real job, they will be happy to try.
    When people get free things for too long, they will think it is supposed to be like that.

    • SlavOz on 30/03/2020 - 12:01

      Honestly, with the amount of useless and overpaid government jobs, I've always wondered why we don't just get our welfare recipients to do road clean ups or other basic duties.

      I would be all for raising our welfare payments if they were actually doing something to earn it. There's plenty of work to be done scrubbing chewing gum off our trains, cleaning up graffiti, and picking up rubbish at the park. That way we take care of our unemployed financially while producing a tangible social benefit.

      • BrokenChairs on 30/03/2020 - 14:59

        You do realise there's work for the dole schemes in place…

        • SlavOz on 30/03/2020 - 15:46
          -1

          Vaguely. Although whatever it is, it's probably not enough. Given how much simple clean up and other skill-less work we need done, there's really no reason anyone should be sitting at home on the dole.

          Maybe they could work for Centrelink and help process all the paperwork from recent applications.

          • Rel63 on 31/03/2020 - 15:32
            +1

            @SlavOz: Most on work for the dole are expected to work 25 to 35 hrs per week doing mostly menial tasks or working in charity op shops with 20 others so there is nothing to do. I was lucky to find volunteer work driving busses for a community transport Assoc where what I am doing is actually valuable. As an older person with health issues I am only required to do 15hrs a week (still a lot sometimes) and can fulfil all my obligation for centrelink by doing this I feel somewhat lucky.

            Work for the dole does not come with any work cover or liability if you are injured on the 'job', unless the organisation has it themselves (like where I work), so you are risking a lot just by turning up to some places but won't get your pittance if you don't.

            It would be great for small business to be given so many hours of 'work for the dole' time and have the unemployed do work that will help them get a job, get references. The problems are that some business will milk it and not actually employed paid staff (unless it was heavily monitored) or it will be claimed they are taking someone's job.

            • SlavOz on 31/03/2020 - 16:30
              -1

              @Rel63:

              doing mostly menial tasks or working in charity op shops with 20 others so there is nothing to do

              In other words, like pretty much most jobs out there. It's not necessarily about having something to do - it's about showing up and being on the clock instead of sitting at home.

              Work for the dole does not come with any work cover or liability

              Thats a very good point.

              It would be great for small business to be given so many hours of 'work for the dole' time

              Same as this. I agree.

  • Bullion78 on 30/03/2020 - 11:35
    +1

    My view is that we're all gonna pay for this money creation and charity in the long term through loss of purchasing power by a declining value in dollar and price rises across the board. No such thing as a free lunch.

  • OzCheapo on 30/03/2020 - 14:31
    +1

    I for one am grateful for the federal government and bipartisan support for scientifically backed policies. It's not easy in their situation as it is for many Australians. Business is personally down but I have friends who've had their entire lives ripped apart and would be in the gurgler without the cash splash

    We could be so much worse off if we had someone like Gerry Harvey as Prime Minister.

    And while the Rudd cash splash is going to hurt our purchasing power, it's a decision between economical prosperity and supporting those who are currently going through a tough time because the Chinese government didn't phase out the culture of exotic soups after the first SARs.

    At the least, China's economy is hurting just as we are.

  • Hangryuman on 30/03/2020 - 16:06

    it's not unusual for people who immigrated a while ago to be the most strident critics of current immigrants and welfare practices

    as in - thanks for letting us in - we worked hard and made it - but look at those dole bludgers - please don't give them any of my tax dollars !!!

    slav - I'm reminded of something one of the Roman Emperors might have said about the Slavic peoples - troublesome types - only good for slaves … keep it down in back there …

    • SlavOz on 30/03/2020 - 21:55
      -1

      LMAO that's a good one. I wholeheartedly approve :D

      I'm not against welfare, I'm simply saying recipients shouldn't complain about it. Those are different things.

      • triviums on 30/03/2020 - 22:12

        I'm simply saying recipients shouldn't complain about it.

        Cool, I assume you are fine with all the suicides/suicide attempts that have occurred due to the way Australia welfare system is setup then.

        These suicides/suicide attempts didn't occur because people were unhappy with receiving welfare. They occurred because of the harassment from robodebt, from the bureaucracy of having to jump through hoops, from being told that their disability doesn't exist, etc.

        If people are dying or having their mental health severely impacted by a system that is supposedly trying to help them then yes there is indeed something to complain about.

        • SlavOz on 30/03/2020 - 23:31
          +2

          Cool, I assume you are fine with all the suicides/suicide attempts that have occurred due to the way Australia welfare system is setup then.

          See, now this is just dishonest framing. What exactly is wrong Australia's welfare system that other countries do better? Every country has a convoluted and limited welfare benefit. That's the way it's designed everywhere. Do you really think there's a country that gives citizens a living wage on demand without paperwork and strict criteria? That's just a fairytale.

          The problem is not with Australia's welfare system, it's welfare in general. No government can afford to give free money to everyone who asks for it without ensuring they really, really need it. Even then, welfare is a massive burden on the budget so it needs to be limited.

          • triviums on 31/03/2020 - 00:00
            +1

            @SlavOz: No, it's not dishonest framing. You said people shouldn't be complaining about it and you've shown time and time again throughout this thread that you don't care about people to a certain extent.

            If you still think I'm dishonestly framing you then that means you have just accepted that those deaths/mental health cases are just collateral damage, which isn't ok. Yes, collateral damage is going to happen in almost any welfare system due to the criteria set in place to reduce the cost of it, but if the collateral damage can be reduced without causing damage elsewhere (e.g taxpayers) then a change should happen.

            There are so many things that can be fixed with the current welfare system in Australia that won't cost a cent more or will even save taxpayers money, but because of political ideologies the changes won't happen.

            Shouldn't that be something to complain about?

            • SlavOz on 31/03/2020 - 11:06
              -1

              @triviums:

              You said people shouldn't be complaining

              Complaining is only warranted if there's a reasonable and viable solution to the problem. That doesnt seem to be the case here.

              Don't you think it's possible that the people experiencing mental health issues are experiencing it because they're poor or sick, and not because of how they're treated by the welfare system? Just FYI, employed people or even rich people suffer from depression/suicide as well. This is not some problem unique to welfare recipients. There's no strong link to suggest that all their mental health problems would go away if the system was better…because there are people who aren't even in the system that commit suicide as well!

              Depression is a medical/mental illness. It's A LOT more complicated than just 'we can fix it by giving people more money!'. That's a very unconstructive and demonstratively false way of looking at a complex problem.

              There are so many things that can be fixed with the current welfare system in Australia that won't cost a cent more or will even save taxpayers money

              Care to explain what these are? I'd love to hear them. So far the only complains you've leveraged against the welfare system is that it's too hard to apply, it's too low, and sometimes some people may not be eligible…changing those things will most definitely cost the tax payer more money.

              You need to remember that there's an entire country we need to look out for, not just the poor and sick. If we ramp up welfare payments or eliminate the barriers to them, we'd likely have to raise taxes or even sacrifice the budget in other areas, which could also lead to people suffering from their own depression and suicide. It's not nearly as simple as you make it out to be.

              • fusion17 on 11/04/2020 - 17:28

                @SlavOz: Don't know why you got downvoted.

                Typical of people saying something isn't right or fair without offering any solutions that look at the entire picture.

  • MrCAMEL on 31/03/2020 - 23:18

    It's a bit strange and complicated. I've always earned a bit over the old threshold for my Mrs to get a payment - study, jobseeker or parenting payment.
    However, if I lost job, we would both get jobseeker under current rules and we would get almost more than my pay for doing nothing. Easy.
    Does the increased partner income threshold for jobseeker only apply for people who lost their job? Or for others as well?

  • Mentallysick on 02/04/2020 - 09:05
    -1

    I have not lost my full time job but i have lost my part time job which i used to do in weekends.

    I work in tax on both jobs and earn $1,000 in full time and used to earn around $350 in part time job.

    Am i eligible for any kind of government payment? At the moment, I have asked my part time employer if they are going to pay me jobkeeper pmt but they said they are still figuring out on the process. If they apply for one, Will i get that $750? I started working for part time job from 01/04/2019 as casual and then changed from casual to part time from 01/12/2019.

    Thank you

  • mubd1234 on 08/04/2020 - 05:29
    +1

    I think Aussie welfare, especially for the elderly, disabled and carers, is excellent. It is not based on your previous income like many other systems.

    Compared to the welfare systems of many other countries, even in social democracy welfare state countries in Europe, and it makes you feel tremendously lucky to live here.

    I read somewhere that full time carers in the UK get $200 a fortnight, versus $900ish a fortnight here in Australia. Same with the state pension in the UK - $500 a fortnight versus $900ish a fortnight here.

    I am not a fan of how the young and unemployed are treated, though. Youth Allowance basically assumes that all young people receive parental financial support between ages 18-21, which is simply not the case for many people.

    I think an actual raise to Newstart is needed for the long term. $550 a fortnight is probably too low. I would say Newstart should be raised to the same level as the other government pensions. Perhaps keep it at $550 a week, and allow up to $300 a fortnight to be loaned through some kind of HECS-style income contingent loan to 'top up' the dole during the initial job search, up to a certain limit at a time ($5000?). Obviously there are some long term unemployed folks out there, job snobs and maybe a few on DSP who fake/exaggerate conditions, but I think this is a tiny minority which people get too worked up over. The vast majority of people on unemployment benefits DO genuinely want to find a good job.

  • [Deactivated] on 20/04/2020 - 14:57

    Can't be bothered reading through the comments - it's an extremely complex issue - but my questions are to the OP.

    Have you looked at the cost of welfare (subsidies, tax concessions, rebates, incentives) to business?

    Are you aware that about 1/3 of our biggest companies pay zero company tax?
    Here's just one example of the systems companies use to avoid contributing: https://www.smh.com.au/business/airports-pot-of-gold-2013082…

    Do you know that Howard and Costello gave gas producers tax concessions which have cost the common wealth (ie Australian citizens) about $90B (compared to the returns from equivalent gas-producing countries)?

    As the old furphy from climate deniers about subsidies for renewables clearly shows (non-renewables have massive $$$ subsidies as well as huge costs to health, the environment etc): No discussion on "welfare" and subsidies should ever exclude industry/business.

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join