Call for action to address gambling harm as report finds Australians lose average of $1,600 a year
Residents of Fairfield, one of the poorest communities in Sydney, lose $3,967 a year on pokies – three times the state average. In Victoria, the communities of Brimbank and Dandenong – both disadvantaged – have led the state in pokies losses per person for at least a decade.
Gotta start with the pokies, they're more than 80c out of every dollar lost.
The pokies lobby understands this, so they are actually funding the anti-gambling foundations that target sports and racing. It's ingenious really. They get tax deductions on it.
Well… How much the average people lose to alcohol, tobacco and other drugs? How much money the system loses to issues (mainly health, but not only that) related to alcohol, tobacco and drugs?
What's the "call for action"? This is again just nanny state managing people's inability to make smart decisions in life.
I've only included addictions in my list to keep it relevant to the topic.
At least gambling doesn't cause cancer.
And, yes, I do think that money laundering is included in the numbers, as others mentioned.
Just because alcohol, tobacco, and drugs have a negative impact on peoples' lives doesn't make gambling any better.
In case you haven't seen, there's been decades of action to try and reduce use of all three. See what a packet of cigarettes costs today. It's 90%+ tax when compared to the same tobacco in some countries.
A packet of Marlboro Red 20s is 600 yen in Japan. AU$6.25. Looking at Google, the same packet is $54.95 here. Government takes discouraging smoking far more seriously than gambling.
I don't think gambling is better. It's a big problem, but people making bad decisions is the main problem. It's quite sad seeing so many lives and families destroyed by gambling, but it's people's (lack of) responsibility to start with.
Some people can gamble responsibly like some people can drink responsibly without causing any harm to themselves or others.
I don't like governments making decisions on behalf of everyone else because some people make stupid decisions and get in trouble, regardless of the complex background and circumstances that lead to that.
Gambling, like other forms of addiction, can be highly addictive and destructive. For some people it's not a simple choice of 'okay, I'll just stop playing. Simple.' Playing games of 'whataboutism' by pointing out that thing over there, that's harmful too, isn't really helping.
Oh, and if you noticed, I didn't downvote you because I disagree with you. Nobody does that, do they?
@Cluster: The first time is a decision. Many people would love to experience taking MDMA, THC, meth, or whatever to have a "nice trip" for a few hours. Many choose not to because of the associated risks, which shouldn't be surprising to anyone above age 12yo.
Not getting into the failed war against drugs here, but when people use drugs or gamble, before they get addicted, they should know there is a risk of addiction (chemical, psychological).
@this is us: Is it truly an informed decision that people make though? I feel like a lot of the "first attempts" would involve, peer pressure, needs for escape etc etc. What makes someone take an action, there is always elements in there that's out of their control. I do beileve if they could see the outcomes of their actions, people would make different choices. They do say hindsight is 20/20 for a reason.
While I do agree that taking responsibility for your choices is part of being an adult, I also feel like it's part of the community's role to make things easier for you to make the right choices. Unfortunately, I think being born in less supportive environment makes it easier to make choices with negative consequences (i.e. children of alcoholics are more likely to become alcoholics themselves).
How much of the "choices" were actually my choices from my youth, and how much of that were just a product of good education and family support, that's something I don't think I can comment on, I just live with the consequences of them.
I also feel like it's part of the community's role to make things easier for you to make the right choices.
The community couldn't care less what choices you make, your own personal choices and decisions are completely up to you to make and no one else in the world shares any responsibility for them.
It's of zero consequence what so ever the type of community you are surrounded by. Make good choices and you'll likely have good outcomes, make bad choices and you'll have bad outcomes.
Obesity is a substantially bigger problem than any of those issues in Australia, yet not only do we not do anything about that, the current federal government hands out millions to promote "body acceptance" and they instead want to try and jail people for calling fat people fat.
Why are we meant to care about smokes or gambling when they are comparatively speaking absolute nothing issues.
Name one person in Australia who is on the way to being jailed for simply and only calling a person fat. I'll wait.
And it's another game of whataboutism.
@Cluster: https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/a-huge-win-comedia…
Isaac Butterfield was dragged via a police-issued interstate warrant to appear before the Queensland Human Rights Commission for calling an Aboriginal tranny a fatty, among other names. The person who had him charged there also attempted to have charges laid against him by NSW Police and QLD Police. According to Butterfield, the QLD state police still has an "active investigation" open over the matter, despite his joke being told at a comedy performance in another state entirely.
I remember there was one lottery winner in Fairfield last year, 50mil I think. Yeah, so it's paid off lol
Insane that these machines can be in pubs. And sports betting is rampant.
All while I can't even do one game of online texas hold'em
~40p/m on boystown lottery
Remember that statistics/data came up during covid when the government allowed people to withdraw a total of $20k superannuation money to assist in the cost of living and other essential expenses, then so many people spent it on gambling?
Australia does have a gambling problem.
No, we spent it on inflation
I think some of us surely did but here are more details re my comment.
https://aifs.gov.au/research/research-snapshots/gambling-aus…
There's one thing problem gamblers can never win back, and that is time. Think of all the time wasted at a gaming table, or pokie, or researching sports picks. Hundreds of hours wasted per year, and then all the stress that goes on top of that. You can never get that time back.
Posting comments on Reddit is the same but leads to an even worse state of mental health.
I don't see anyone from the Government cracking down on internet socialists ?
If you look a little deeper, you'll discover many people are warning about overuse and abuse of social media. Including government.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-21/social-media-harms-yo…
If gambling is your thing and my comment about wasting time annoyed you, then fine. Do your thing if you enjoy it.
Reddit isn't even mentioned once in the article you linked………….
Anyone remember when Nick Xenophons No Pokies party? He had part of the balance of power in the senate 2008, and instead of crushing pokies (as per his party name), he negotiated for some other electoral sugar hit instead. Sigh.
His key mistake was launching a Xenophon party. It all fell apart when he couldn't control his candidates and what they said and did. If he stayed as a single revolutionary in the senate he would often end up holding the balance of power, but he wanted more than that and lost it all.
but he wanted more than that and lost it all.
Ironic.
I feel like people could take the money they will lose and buy their own pokie machines for their living room.
But maybe it isn't thrilling when you aren't losing your own hard earned money.
You can get apps for your phone
The apps are a gateway drug to the real thing. 'Oh, I'm good at this, I should play for real!'
I was listening to a podcast on the topic where it was mentioned people were spending real money to buy play tokens and upgrades for the virtual pokie. Players can never win anything, but were spending real money…
For some people that is true. I refuse to spend money on games that have in app purchases. Give me a once off payment.
Got to lose that much to keep VIP status, they used to give you free family meals at the pho restaurant daily. Almost worth it
Responsible Gambling
The only thing surprising is the amount, I'd have expected it to be higher.
It was weird to see the difference between NSW/Sydney and Melbourne/VIC in the amount of people who gamble very regularly, like daily.
People at work on breaks whip out their phones and placing bets on all sorts of stuff daily and it all appears normal to them and those around them.
This also extends in to uni where a friend who teaches has to stop phone use / gambling in classes as its that common of an issue with the first year students, comparing whos betting on what, what odds, encouraging others to back something for a win that rarely happens.
The amount of pro-gambling advertising everywhere down here, radio, billboards, tv, youtube, podcasts and other apps (even Insta) is insane.
Pokies were a real issue in NSW/VIC but you had to go there, now its all on your phone they're sucking a lot of money out of a lot of people!
This clearly doesn't include property gamblers, who enjoy tax payer funded bailouts for perpetuity to cover their loss making decisions.
Investors only get a 47% haircut, and also have to pay land tax. Land tax on an average IP in Victoria is $3k a year, not a small sum. Meanwhile, owner-occupiers pay no land tax, and no capital gains tax. I know who is getting the easy ride and it's not investors.
No one in Australia is getting an easy ride with property. Owner, investor or renter. All getting screwed out of a way - too high percentage - of earnings with both parents working full-time, often with a second job or side hustle to make ends meet.
***Baby boomers who own their own property have been excluded from this rant due to weakening my point
Why are you guys so obsessed by boomers. Our interest rates were enormous. Perhaps the real problem is interest rates were too low for too long so house prices went crazy. When interest rates went up even a relative small amount the multiplication effect was enormous.
Boomers haven’t caused your problems people who use property to make money do and that can be any age group. Most Boomers I know only own one property. This “boomer” obsession is lazy thinking.
@try2bhelpful: Everyone likes to blame others for why they didn't succeed themselves.
Ultimately if you can't afford a property it's on you.
@justworld: I don’t agree with that either. Different people do have different advantages. Money begets money so it is advantages to be born into a family that has it.
Can't go to a pub or club anymore without feeling like a victim, no bands, no music, everyone segregated into little areas where they have to be, expensive drinks, horses, keno and pokies… fk that.
I don’t see a problem
Seems reasonable. Thats like $30/week - a meal in at a cafe costs about $30. A meal in Maccas is ~$15.
Gambling makes me sick- I cannot fathom people losing money, families and lives to this. I know we all have our addictions, but some are markedly worse than others.
Obesity is a problem 100x worse than gambling.
This makes no sense. Every moderate to heavy gambler I know is always having these crazy big wins, never heard ANY stories about losing money…
Just keep on doubling until you win, you cant lose
Never stop, your next win is just one bet away
Not a big deal. It costs over $300 /year for Netflix. These people just have gambling as their form of entertainment.
Netflix doesn’t launder the proceeds of crime.
They literally do and former exec's of theirs are in prison for it:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/former-netflix-executiv…
Add to it crypto. All designed to take our money
how did they get this number?
nice
Can't fix stupid
Crap. If i'm losing $0 a year that means my partner is losing $3200
Nah there’s another bloke losing $60,000
Legalising gambling was a huge mistake.
idiots will waste their money regardless. may as well tax the shit out of it
I really despise that mindset, which sees Australia as a common market to be exploited. Gambling is addictive and ruins peoples lives.
so are drugs, but banning alcohol clearly doesnt help
@belongsinforums: Banning alcohol does help. It’s one of the most important tools used to protect remote indigenous communities from alcohol abuse.
@belongsinforums: Yeah it does. Unfortunately a blanket ban isn’t not implemented in the cities and towns too but the banned drinker register helps.
We also lose money on smoking. There's the cost of fresh air and all the health costs everyone incurs for all smoking related costs. Should increase the tax on smoking and gambling to stratospheric levels
Smoking taxes are stratospheric. Smokers were already paying their healthcare costs over a decade ago and tobacco is what, double the price now?
it's not high enough imo
Do you drink, smoke or gamble?
Misleading averages. $4,000 is only a little bit above the average of what gamblers lose. The majority of Australians (slim majority) don't gamble at all. The average loss for those that do is over $3,000
Most people in Australia haven't heard of the term self-responsibility, and seem to believe humans are either just biological/organic robots, or completely determined by social forces (sociologists/Marxists).
People choose to gamble, people choose to do drugs, people choose to commit crimes, people choose to engage in promiscuous sexual activity, people choose to participate extreme sports, and so on. Nobody forces them to. People should be allowed to do whatever they like as long as it doesn't directly harm another human being. But if they mess up, it should be themselves who pay; they shouldn't be bailed out by the state for their reckless decisions.
If you don't believe people should be permitted to make potential harmful choice, you are a totalitarian/statist. Safety uber alles is the core belief of the ALP and Greens, though the LNP are almost as bad. I laugh at the gambling ads on TV that spend the first 75% glamorizing gambling, then finish by stating gambling is for losers.
I wish I could live in your simplistic black and white world, where society doesn't exist. It would make life so much easier.
So how does this work? Someone is a problem gambler, they're spending all their money but haven't "messed up", how is this good for anyone? If they steal from their employer and gamble it away, how do they pay for the damage they've done? They lose their job, the money is gone so they can't repay it and all that can happen is we throw them in prison - which costs a lot of money. Everyone who isn't a casino loses. How do you make them "pay" for it?
And since we're taking casinos doing direct harm to people, shouldn't they have to pay for it? Because right now it's the state bailing people out.
A drug user gets an addition, neglects their kids, ruins their marriage, winds up without a job, how exactly do they "pay" for it? They've made a mess of their life and it always has an impact, their employer needs to hire and train someone new, their family suffers, if they commit any crimes the victim suffers. It's just a general all around bad for everyone who isn't a drug dealer.
I laugh at the gambling ads on TV that spend the first 75% glamorizing gambling, then finish by stating gambling is for losers.
Addiction is hilarious! I also love liquor bottles that sell their product but also have warnings on not to drink during pregnancy, lol fetal alcohol syndrome!
I bet you its much higher than that.
Highly underrated comment!
I make use of the free star casino shuttle bus from fairfield/cabra to get into city
$1,600 a year is a very negligible amount especially adjusting for today's inflation. Also note that the star club has decent benefits if you get to gold membership. Progressive gambling also helps claw back your losses :)
It should be banned.
Pokies
Lottery
Sportsbet of any kind
It’s disgusting.
Agree.
The problem is gambling then goes underground. People already run private poker games and gamble online where Australian laws mean nothing. While there's a lot of harm in legal gambling, it could be argued that illegal and completely uncontrolled gambling is worse.
The one change I would like to see is the banning of 'Gaming' on pokie ads and venues. It's not a 'Gaming' room. It's gambling. Gaming is a cheap euphemism. We don't call a casino the 'Gaming Center' either.
Yes, we need even more tighter government regulation on private citizen's behavior because a vocal minority find it 'disgusting'. Enjoy your War on Drugs 2: Electric Boogaloo.
It's yours to lose.
Never understood gamblers.
Just give me your money and I'll kick you in the face.
Same result.
You would have to kick the person in the face at a random and unpredictable interval to really simulate the essence of gambling.
That's the exciting bit: You never know when you're going to be kicked in the nuts. That's what makes gambling enticing.
That's the problem with averages, it's not accurate when the actual figures are so very different.
Gambling losses averaged out to every Australian, when most Australian's don't actually gamble completely distorts the loss figures.
The losses should be apportioned to GAMBLERS ONLY… ie the average losses to those that gamble.
I reckon then the figures would truly shock people.
It can't be banned outright, because then it goes underground and the clubs (that are profiting immensely) won't subsidise/support community initiatives.
Gambling should be treated like smoking.
No ads, no brightly covered packaging (so no brightly coloured and noisy pokies), and completely hidden from walkers by (go into any RSL and you can hear and see the pokies from a mile away). And then tax it even more heavily than it is now.
Since obesity is 1000x worse of a problem for our society and economy than gambling is, do you think we should remove all fat people from TV, advertising, hide them from kids and tax them more heavily than everyone else ?
I think you may actually be on to something there.
That's a illogical tangent, but I'll bite.
Yes, fast food advertising should also be banned. And taxed? Maybe, yes. But "removing fat people from TV"? That leap of logic is absolutely amazing.
But it IS different… people do need to eat, and fast food is typically cheaper than fresh. They don't NEED to gamble. Dropping $10 on a BigMac is hardly the same as thousands into a pokie in one session.
The money we lose as an economy due to the burden unhealthy obese people cause is literally 1000's of times more than the total losses and damage caused by gambling.
Burgers and high sugar food are not a problem if consumed in moderation by healthy people who make healthy life choices. They don't need to be taxed. Obese people are a problem though and should be taxed higher due to the problems their poor life choices cause the rest of Australia.
Yea , you wish ,