Call for action to address gambling harm as report finds Australians lose average of $1,600 a year
Residents of Fairfield, one of the poorest communities in Sydney, lose $3,967 a year on pokies – three times the state average. In Victoria, the communities of Brimbank and Dandenong – both disadvantaged – have led the state in pokies losses per person for at least a decade.
Victoria & Queensland both have a city called Sydney?
☕👓
😅😂
Fairfield, one of the poorest communities in Sydney
Herp derp
probably distracted because they just dumped a pay check into a pokie.
Typical Fairfield resident's reading skills on full display
😅😂
Probably twice or thrice this amount if they include lotto (doesn't look like they did).
and keno, sports tab
and
candy crush
pokemon cards
Plenty of parents allow their kids to play keno.
Gateway.
Nothing quite like the gamble on Pokemon cards that may turn into an investment. I wonder when the ATO will get wind of this and chase us for CGT.
"These same three communities – Fairfield in Sydney, and Brimbank and Dandenong in Melbourne – stand out for other gambling spending too.”
Quoted from the news.
Residents of Fairfield… above average,,,
Next…
Now they know where the next casino should be. We don't have one anyway down (up?) here in the west.
The others with gambling addictions are state governments. That revenue is hard to let go of.
Just like stamp duty on house sales. What's the percentage increase in that over the last 2 decades?
We could always demand they raise sales or income tax to cover the shortfall. I wonder how that would go over politically?
We buy Tattslotto tickets when values are high but apart from that I don’t funnel money to the gambling industry. Gambling is a tax on people who don’t understand statistics. Frankly pokie machines should be plain packaging like cigarettes. Take out the bells and whistles, just one button and a screen that says win or lose. It should also have a total of the current losses.
Gambling places should also have to pay back money received from proceeds of crimes. They would be a bit better at vetting people if they didn’t get to keep the profits.
Gambling is a tax on people who don’t understand statistics
If you understand statistics so well then you should do the opposite of this:
We buy Tattslotto tickets when values are high
Completely agree with your comment. We certainly don’t expect to win but the outlay is small and if it does come off the payout is huge.
except the amount of people who play the big stakes are also huge. this means more chance of multiple winners and splitting the payout. might be better off playing lower jackpots with fewer people?
You're throwing money away on a small flicker of a hope. I guess that's enough to entertain many.
@Zaptruder: I do the gambles very infrequently, but I do it for the Dopamine, which is guaranteed.
If you just want a feeling of hope and expect no money, you will always win.
We buy Tattslotto tickets when values are high
We certainly don’t expect to win but the outlay is small and if it does come off the payout is huge.
So you do gamble, and you've summed up why people gamble in a nutshell, it's the dopamine hit from the though of a big payout. Yet earlier on you say
Gambling is a tax on people who don’t understand statistics
Surely there is a degree of cognitive dissonance going on here. Your threshold for the dopamine hit is just tuned slightly differently from more regular gamblers.
So it is a tax on you…
I do the same even though I know for a fact I'm not going to win anything. It's just a dream of what could be if I won.
In certain situations it's +EV so it makes sense to buy a ticket when it's high
It’s never positive EV when you take into account the fact that the jackpot can be split.
(I have done extensive calculation in this)
nope don't think so. The prize pool is always set so the EV is negative. this was a while ago but according to rules they have to give back 85% of your money. So every dollar collected, 85c is added to the prize pool. The bigger the division, means there are more people betting and so the winnings will be shared.
You neglect the entertainment value of talking about what you would do with $50m as long as it rare enough it's no sillier a purchase than a movie ticket.
There's some pretty bad movies out there though
Progressive baccarat betting chads have entered the chat
We buy Tattslotto tickets when values are high but apart from that I don’t funnel money to the gambling industry. Gambling is a tax on people who don’t understand statistics
hmmm… high values are neither necessary nor sufficient if you're implying a better return.
It's +EV
Gambling is a tax on people who don’t understand statistics.
If they are losing 3k per year they know the odds.
What they are actually doing is buying hope.
Selling their hope
Are there any areas that have a net gain?
If so, I'm moving there! I'M GONNA BE RICH!
I like those odds!
what is this I don't even
Any area with a net gain should be impossible. All gambling is set to negative expected value for the customer. Advantage players are very rare, and the only games where they can succeed (Blackjack with hand shuffling and sports betting) are quickly backed off when the house notices a player is good. Games like Texas Holdem Poker where players play against each other and not the house are always negative EV when spread across all players due to rake.
Black jack is usual always negative EV. good players are close to 98% return on investment. average players are probably around 70% roi. Unless you can card count and they aren't shuffling often then maybe you can get above 100%.
Poker is still net negative across the players due to rake but I guess a few players that are good enough can be +EV at the expense of bad players.
There are tonnes of winning poker players. A decision can be +ev but I'm not sure a player can, odd use of the term imo. There's software to measure it. I was winning at some abysmal rate of 7 cents an hour or something. But I sucked.
The only situation I've participated in is an RSL club used to occasionally give two for one Keno tickets when you scan your card - that was enough for on average a net gain, but when you look up the odds, it's not by much. I always took a random selection and have a lifetime net gain (excluding a fluke biggish win - don't fall for this one boys and girls).
I don't frequent RSL clubs much so couldn't test with a large sample size.
Are there any areas that have a net gain?
Bet there's not.
How much do you want to bet?
Double or nothing!
Sportsbets HQ doing pretty well
Ill never understand people who play pokies but if that is 'how they want to spend their money' that is up to them
however it is also more reason to give welfare/social security money in forms on non-cash payments that restict spending on gambling/alcohol etc
It's exciting, it's a bit like a video game I think. The machines should have a max betting limit, like physically impossible to bet more than $20 per hour. Though I guess no pub would bother with it at all if they didn't earn.
I like pachinko in Japan where you play for the balls and swap the balls for prizes, and even if you only bet a little you still end up with a bucket of balls and you still have fun.
I don’t see ppl having a great time playing pokies.
They look glum.
I've been to Japanese pachinko places and the one thing that struck me was how LOUD they are. Seriously, it's like sitting in a noisy factory. All the players look like pokie players here: staring at the screen, touching the machine every now and then, and they all look like zombies.
The prizes are exchanged for cash around the corner. This gets around Japan's gambling laws of not playing for money, but seriously, every player there is playing to win cash.
It's all well and good to say how people spend money is up to them but when industries use psychology to tempt people who have an affinity to addictions then that's a different matter.
You can say the same for drinking, drugs, sex etc it becomes an addiction for people.
Apart from the machines themselves, clubs use tactics to lure people in so it's deplorable.
You can say the same for drinking, drugs, sex etc it becomes an addiction for people.
Apart from the machines themselves, clubs use tactics to lure people in so it's deplorable.
look im not defending the gambling industry i think all gambling ads should be banned but people have 'free' will to spend their money how they like
i play the lotto now and then - now i completely know the odds of winning are almost impossible but i find it fun to jump on realestate.com.au and carsales.come.au to imagine if i won 100m what i could buy - it is a bit of a therapy or a release from the fact im probably going to be a wage slave for the rest of my life for $20-30 i can dream for a few days.
people who play pokies probably do get some 'enjoyment' out of the machines - it isnt 'for me' but if that makes them happy i got no issue as long as they are spending their own hard earned i am 100% against people spending social security money which is meant to help them pay food and bills into pokies though - i have heard a lot of people who 'play pokies' do it because 'they are lonely' it is somewhere to go with people and allows them to destress it is why you often see a lot of older people on the machines i guess (that is what the gamblers help therapist at my work has told me)
everyone has a vice im not judging those who gamble, drink, have unsafe sex, take drugs, smoke, get to much cosmetic surgery etc as long as they are not 'hurting' anyone and they 'accept' reponsiblity for the risks using their own money/health/life they can do as they like
It's is essentially a scam though, which takes advantage of people with low IQ. Sad really, and pretty evil.
Maybe there should be a limit on how much a player can lose per year based on a percentage of their previous year taxable income.
Let it be the casinos problem. If they take more than this limit it must be returned to the player. Problem gambling will be eliminated overnight.
which takes advantage of people with low IQ.
So what would you propose be done? Legislate away stupidity? This is Australia, we've tried that unsuccessfully many times before.
Maybe there should be a limit on how much a player can lose per year based on a percentage of their previous year taxable income.
Lol… yes, more nanny state bureaucracy to waste taxpayer funds micromanaging issues that are so far down on the list of existential problems in the middle of a recession/cost of living crisis? Great idea, go run for local office. Or into traffic. Whichever you prefer.
Problem gambling will be eliminated overnight.
F**king lol. Have you met degenerate gamblers before? It's typically an intergenerational psychological disorder. Go look at history and see how well political solutions to psychological problems have managed to meaningfully alter fundamental human nature for the better and then tell me your idea isn't insane.
It's typically an intergenerational psychological disorder.
Doesn't mean they deserve to be taken advantage of, and essentially robbed blind.
In much the same way as pubs can be fined or shut down for irresponsible alcohol service, casinos could have a similar duty of care.
more nanny state bureaucracy to waste taxpayer funds micromanaging issues
Also not what I said. The government makes the law, it's the casinos responsibility to make sure they don't break it.
I have a punt or 2 myself. Everything in moderation is fine.
It's all the underhanded stuff that the gambling industry does to addicts, things which all governments overlook because they want tax revenue. General society needs to be aware of what gamblers face so we don't just blame addicts.
It's not hard to track down the many investigations over many decades into immoral practices that clubs get up to from keeping a record of punters names, habits, favourite drinks etc to just questionable things like lucky door prizes.
https://www.smh.com.au/interactive/2023/why-pokies-are-addic… - just the tip of the iceberg.
These tricks may not work on everyone but the people that get hooked in are in for a bad life unless they get help. There needs to be a crack down on these sort of practices backed up by heavy penalties.
What's your view on the local RSL sending a bus out to the nursing home every fortnight?
What's your view on the local RSL sending a bus out to the nursing home every fortnight?
Ill say i didnt know that happens nor do i agree with it …the RSL is acting unethical trying to promote their business on vulnerable people it is not illegal…..but it is more a shame on the nursing homes not doing their job in looking after clients? id argue the Nursing homes shouldnt allow these kinds of organisations on premise….
Nursing homes make HUGH money from the residence it is their responsibility protect them from being taken advantage of
My mum who developed a gambling addiction as a side effect of medication for treatment of restless legs syndrome, into poker machines. In the final incident, she lost her entire life savings including the proceeds from the sale of family home (in the range of $250K-$300K), superannuation, and $40K on credit cards before she asked to borrow some money to pay a bill (I was living overseas at the time). We declared her bankrupt within days of finding out the truth. She now lives a month-to-month on state pension and rental assistance and has zero $'s in savings, with me and my siblings topping up when she needs help with unplanned expenses (medical bills and car repairs). Fortunately before it all happened, she got herself on the list for a not-for-profit retirement community so has a safe place to live that she can afford.
When it unwound, she was suicidal.
It's not the gambling industries fault she got a gambling addiction (that rests with big pharma), but where are checks/controls that can prevent a 67-year-old from putting hundreds of thousands of $'s into poker machines over the course of a couple of months?!?
(There have been numerous lawsuits and class actions against the drug companies, but mum missed out. The drugs are developed to treat Parkinson's disease).
People take advantage of other people then say it’s free will , it’s just scammers in another guise .
As time goes on, the gap between humans and machines keeps shrinking—humans seem more mechanical, and machines are getting more human-like. The differences are getting harder to pinpoint, just like how it’s tough to trace how neural networks work. At the same time, the idea that humans are superior to animals is fading, since many animals show complex emotions and intelligence that are pretty similar to ours and humans behaving like animals (2020 memories).
however it is also more reason to give welfare/social security money in forms on non-cash payments that restict spending on gambling/alcohol etc
Exactly !
this could be changed to say, the average Aussie losses $30 a week to gambling, makes it look not so bad, i would love to see what percentage of Aussies gamble, i would think that a small minority are making the bulk of gambling.
80% of Australian men gamble, and 70% of women. Almost 50% of men gamble every week.
https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/australias-welfare/gambling
How many of those are problem gamblers? Even if it's in single percentage digits we're talking about more than a million people.
you think $30 a week doesn't look bad? that really is the mindset that gets many of these people in such huge debt. $30 a week is huge and the reality is that is the average which includes everyone that doesn't gamble. So many of these people it is more like $50 or $100 or more a week.
if the average pokies machine pays 70% of revenue out, that means the average person is gambling $100 and walking away with $30.
except that isn't how it works. those on the pokies keep going till they win big or lose everything. most of them lose everything.
@gromit: I'm not saying that's how it works on an individual level. Just pointing out the industry's own statistics
@gromit: Exactly. It sounds worse when you state it as "gambling $100 per week" rather than "losing $30 per week"
@greatlamp: I think you are misreading. they are LOSING $100+ a week, not gambling. The average across everyone including non gamblers is $30, therefore the gamblers are losing a lot more than $30, it is more likely $50-$100
@gromit: $1600 per year is $30 per week. I'm talking about the actual statistics on average.
I'm showing how the figures quoted in the article line up with what you are saying.
@greatlamp: and I am pointing out the stats are a LOWER number than reality as they are averaged across everyone. regardless $30 a week is a large amount to be losing each week. It represents over 3% of the median after tax pay in. If you think that is nothing much then you are part of the problem.
@gromit: Stop assuming I am criticising you. Read what I have written.
If the average person gambles $100 per week, and you remove the people who don't gamble then the people who do gamble are playing with much higher figures.
Allow me to quote myself
I'm showing how the figures quoted in the article line up with what you are saying.
@greatlamp: sigh, it was not what I was saying, but whatever. I was explaining that actual gamblers are losing more, LOSING upwards of 50-100 a week, not gambling.
pays 70% of revenue out, that means the average person is gambling $100 and walking away with $30.
no wonder the average person loses.
if it pays 70% (which it doesn't. its closer to 87%) then if you put in $100 your expected return is $70. not $30.
the problem is if they play $100 they get $87 back.
but then they play the $87 and get $76 back.
and then they play the $76 and get $66 back.
and so on.
until they owe $17,000 to the bank and $40,000 to their mum.
@Antikythera: I am amazed it had to go in this long before someone pointed this out.
The numeric illiteracy in this thread hurt mah brainz.
Or an average Aussie losses $104,480 to gambling over their lifetime.
https://www.westernsydney.edu.au/newscentre/news_centre/more…
Fairfield (and it's surrounding suburbs) have approximately one pokie machine for every 55 residents living there.
analysis of the latest ABS Census data and data from Liquor and Gaming NSW further reveals:
Despite only containing 54 per cent of Sydney’s population, Western Sydney endures 63 per cent of electronic gaming machine losses.
There was an increase of 169 electronic gaming machines in Western Sydney in the previous 12 month reporting period, compounding the already high levels of electronic gaming machine saturation in the region.
The disproportionate number of “mega-clubs” in Western Sydney is a significant contributor to this saturation.
The frontlines of the gambling related harm epidemic align with locations that experience high levels of socio-economic disadvantage.
Many of these clubs also encourage you to gamble (i.e. the more you play, the more you are rewarded, usually in the form of virtual currency that can be spent on highly discounted food / drink at the bistros).
Average Aussie Loses $1600 to Gambling Per Year
This means few lose $50K plus on Gambling and that balances it out lol
These are rookie numbers lol
sir, this is a Casino.
LET ME LOSE MORE
I'm finally above average in something!
Well I am below average at end of the pack struggling to keep up
I play the occasional lotto and never win. I see it as a donation to the hospital system, despite the government selling off SA Lotteries 🤦♀️
Just throw your money into the street , it will have the same effect .
Always props to the WA government for restricting pokies to the casino
Crazy to think they're the only government to do so
Not every state can sell its dirt to China
Yet other states enjoy the extra GST 😉
Albo's Australia
Nillionaire on 05/09/2024 - 04:24 Comment score below threshold.
