Sequel to my previous forum post on SMSF.
Thank you to everyone that chimed in my previous post on SMSFs. A lot of very good advice there.
After running numbers with all variables I am seriously considering switching to Hostplus instead of creating a SMSF. A lot of the advice seemed to lean that way.
Hostplus appears to have the lowest administration and investment fees for the investments I am looking at.
Are there ozbargainers with Hostplus than can give a review/comment/experience/tips on their satisfaction with fund.
Thank you in advance.
Superannuation Funds. Is Hostplus good?
Last edited 15/07/2024 - 12:25
Related Stores
Comments
- 1
- 2
No fund is going to come first every year, you need to look at medium to longer term comparisons.
not an issue if you arent investing in the default product though
I did not know that. I'm glad I adjusted my mix and achieved 16% returns with Hostplus. Most people don't do that though.
low admin fees are important, but they do not trump good returns. you need both and hostplus seems a little subpar. unless you are doing your own investment choices with them then their recent investment record really doesn't matter.
Index funds returns are all pretty much the same. They hug the index, so they return pretty much the index's return.
Managed funds are different, as they are managed by experts investors that may or may not get it right. Fees are higher on those though, to pay the experts investors. Annoyingly they get paid even if they don't get it right!also if you are in the game for a while, you know performance of fund can be manage or slightly manipulated
for instance a lot of fund invest in unlisted assets and their values has dropped dramatically and because they are unlisted until they do the valuation and acknowledge the asset drop they just cheated and said nah what we invest has not dropped in value and keep status quote or sometimes they drag their feet to do so.
the collapse of office building is a good example, stuff are exchanging at 30-40% their value but some fund still has not written down their drop in valuation.
and there end of the year window dressing, the list goes on and on
This is true of industry funds for sure.
I was in financial advice during the GFC. Listed property trusts were down by around 70%, yet unlisted trusts held by industry funds were still quoting high values despite holding the same type of assets. This is simply because unlisted trusts get valued less frequently. We told anyone who came to us with an industry fund holding unlisted property to immediately sell out of it before the valuations eventually caught up.
I was with MTA Super when the GFC happened.
MTAS had been the top performing fund for the previous 10(??) years and heavily promoted their "unlisted investments.I'd just moved my company based super to them as I could no longer stay in the company fund due to redundancy.
It was all rosy for a few months until (IIRC) the Super funds were forced to get independent valuations additional to their "usual" valuers. This resulted in a 35% drop in unit prices which took about 5 years to recover.
I believe the CEO left "under a cloud".
The ATO has developed a superannuation comparison tool, I wouldn't use anything else.
https://www.ato.gov.au/calculators-and-tools/super-yoursuper…
Pick a fund with low fees.
ATO only compares MySuper products
Its too difficult to compare everything as there are so many options, but these comparisons are good for most people who won't be trying to actively invest.
Totally agree, just that default options seem unpopular around here. I prefer Chant West’s AppleCheck.
@sumyungguy: That's because everyone here is a genius stock picker than can outperform managed funds and other options…
thank you - I found https://www.ato.gov.au/calculators-and-tools/super-yoursuper…
which said logon to MyGov, ATO, Super, Information, Your Super Comparison
it then showed my age, and super balance, then listed maybe 50 different super funds, I could select/compare 4 at a time, but it seemed to display only the default for age choice, not the choice I have actually made, and for 9 years ? Who does that ? My super website shows performance for 10 years, 5 years, etc.
anyhoo the above tool shows HostPlus as the best performer '7.84% pa over 9 years' (my choice elsewhere grew 9.4%pa over 10 years), but unless I can easily see what I would choose in HostPlus over 10 years - meh - I'm happy with my existing super elsewhere - with International Shares choice showing growth of over 20% in last 1 yr …
I just went to HostPlus website to check their claimed performance
downloaded from https://hostplus.com.au/members/our-products-and-services/in…
and got a nugly spreadsheet formatted horribly as I had to adjust column widths before I could even read it - that's a fail - and then saw - what, only single month-by-month 'performance' - nothing longer term ?
what about the standard I see for Aware super - performance %pa over 10yrs, 5yrs, 3yrs, 1yr, 3mths, 1mth, FY to date, for all of the choice options - https://aware.com.au/member/what-we-offer/investments/invest…
unless and until I see that on HostPlus website, I can't even start to be interested.
Timeframe for investment options performance is selectable here: https://hostplus.com.au/members/our-products-and-services/in…
still looked like a single display - I prefer tables like my previous link - if I have to dig up and down to get a single figure at a time I'm not interested
Are hostplus still using synthetic index? Or has that changed?
I think they were using Macquarie Bank’s True Index funds, which use derivatives to manage their portfolio, similar to REST. think about counterparty risk
only REST is using a synthetic index
How about Australian Ethical?
How about Australian Ethical?
Last time I looked at them their fees were of the higher scale.
How do the fees compare with hostplus?
They were higher.
The process I used was to take time out of my busy day and read & compare the Product Disclosure Statements from both companies and put them in a spreadsheet using my super balance to discern which company had the best fee to past performance mix.
Give it a try
Virgin Money Australia - Indexed Overseas Shares - Fees 0.7% PA
0.7% fees is expensive for an index fund
I am with Hostplus - I chose 'International Index Fund' and allocated 100% towards it. I saw some swings in the past 5 years (25% down, 35% up in the past 2 years).
I didn't use the hedge option which saw less swings but has worse performance as I still have 20 years before retirement.
Very happy with the performance and low fees.
It's probably good to check a few articles on Hostplus - their balanced option has a lot of unlisted assets. The valuation of these assets (think commercial property for example) is then not priced by market but private valuers or bank valuations.
This article explains that in more detail and recommends a different super fund instea.
The linked piece shows that indexed options underperform, yet for reasons I'm still trying to understand they appear to be the preferred choice among the commenters here.
He explains that in more detail in his other article linked there:
Firstly, it is therefore not in the investment team’s interest to promote or improve the performance of the index option. Secondly, industry super funds have close ties with unions, and they are typically not in favour of redundancies. As such, it is my view that non-index options will probably continue to outperform.
I personally disagree. If you compare the Hostplus International Indexed (11.87% over 5 years) against the Hostplus Balanced (7.04% over 5 years), you'll see what I mean.
Can someone with HostPlus pooled options confirm whether they show you the number of units in each allocation that you own? Once of my peeves with AusSuper is that it's a simple balance.. nothing showing the details of ownership. My other fund shows units in each allocation and I can see those units growing.. not sure if this even matters but I'm curious.
I previously considered SMSF and also wrap funds that allowed ASX300 direct investing. In the end I realised I don't want to look in that depth of detail at my investments for the next 30 years. Also those that allow ASX300 direct investing often don't also provide international direct investment, tending to warp your domestic/international split.
The reason for considering both those options was maximising returns while younger. If your super balance is high enough in the decade prior to retirement you can afford to stay in strong growth funds. This is a case of the rich get richer - those with sufficient super balance to maintain elevated risk are likely to have greater returns.
Colonial First State was my eventual choice as they provide access to a variety of leveraged funds. The raw data with full unit-price history of all investment options is also readily available allowing back-testing of investment choices. I consider leveraged funds the only way to beat the index long-term. I am also more heavily weighted to international than the typical account. So much of what we buy is either imported or priced on the global market. My overweight of international is a hedge against domestic inflation.
My returns after all fees over the last two years were +21% and +22%. My biggest loss in any year was -11% (but that was followed by a +46% gain the following year)
Many will consider my strategy too risky. I consider a strategy that doesn't insist on your money working as hard as possible as the bigger risk. Go for growth!
This can definitely work well over longer term but is not for the faint hearted. Also if you cop a big loss at the start its going to take an awful long time to get it back.
A friend moved his wife's super into CFS geared share fund at exactly the wrong time (not long before GFC hit) and it dropped by 50% shortly afterwards. That's an extreme example, but you shouldn't be going near this sort of strategy unless you are able to ride out this sort of thing, both in terms of wealth and the sleep at night factor.
I do see some comparisons between now and the pre GFC years. Market is at record levels, doing well and even an idiot can make money. I recall a lot of people touting themselves as great stock pickers back then because markets were flying for about 4 years until it all went wrong. Hopefully nothing that drastic happens again but it remains a risk.
That said, if you are not drawing from your super and all income and dividends are reinvested the recovery is much quicker from negative events. The accumulation index recovered post GFC much more quickly than the standard all ords.
I hold that CFS Geared Share Fund outside super and automatically reinvest the dividends. I can comfortably say that it has been the most volatile managed fund I own but also the best performer. It has increased 11+fold in 20 years.
Is that the 'CFS Geared Index Global Share' option? This looks very interesting for someone like me with 20+ years until retirement.
I actually believe that with a chance to live until 90 there is no reason to switch to conservative options when you reach 60 or so.
I hold a few investment options - properly thought out about 10 years ago, then adjusted based on performance about 4 years ago. I haven't checked too strongly if this still makes sense because doing so more than every 5 years or so can lead to you chasing the recent past rather than setting strategy. That said, I still check the balance most months.
Most of my funds are in a single pre-curated option, with additional options held to tilt my overall portfolio ratios.
My current holdings are:
Geared equity - growth -
55% - CFS Geared Growth Plus (mix of domestic/global)
15% - Acadian Geared Sus Global Eq
7% - CFS Geared Global Share
Long/short funds:
11% - Acadian Global Equ Long Short
7% - Acadian Aust Equity Long Short(the remainder to reach 100% are some not-exited infrastructure funds, derivative funds, and a touch of cash for paying insurance without a spread)
So the options with very low investment fees are the indexed ones.
Indexed growth 0.05%
Indexed balanced 0.06%
Indexed defensive 0.08%
Australian shares indexed 0.04%
International shares indexed 0.07%
Cash 0.02%I wonder if for the shares and balanced options they invest in ETFs. If they do, are these fees on top of the ETF fees (ETFs have their own fees already built in the price).
Some interesting thoughts here…
"go with the lowest fee" - isnt best net return the aim of the game? or is the assumption that all fund returns are exactly the same and the work is the same? If its purely Index fund investing then lowest fee should apply, but again not all index returns are equal. Suggest using Vanguard as a benchmark for both index and active fund returns, and also consider the percentage allocation to Growth assets (anything that isnt cash or fixed interest) when doing your comparison. Also consider the Super fund admin fee (that you pay) separate to the investment manager fee (which is just deducted from the gross investment return, you dont pay it). Imagine if the banks declared their 'manager fee' on Term Deposit cash that they lend out.
"XX has had the highest return for the past XX years' - compared to what? Other large single investment blended funds? The investment world is much bigger than the Industry fund top 10. EG just one example, Hyperion Global Shares fund returns for the past 10 years, 1 bad year but otherwise great performance overall and 1 yr at ~60%.
"This is more expensive than that" - index funds dont research or manage any investments and so are cheap to run, active funds involve research, management of assets, buy/sell costs, forex, so they cost more to run. While index funds tend to do well over most periods, there can be some great outperformance for specific active funds in certain sectors that indexes dont cover - fixed interest, property, global and emerging, Aust small companies, leveraged. EG using Hyperion example above, internal manager fee is ~2% from gross return. But if avg annual net return to you is 24%, does it matter? Note that many active manager fees arent worth it when index achieves similar result.
This discussion shows why in some cases expert advice should be considered. A couple nearing retirement age with a huge balance can afford to be somewhat less conservative than one with $595K. Same for a 40yo with an above average balance compared with one who is below. Comes down to where one is in life and what head space you're in.
What you say is correct.
However the way I see is that the only thing you have real direct control on is the admin and investment fees. For those Hostplus seems the cheapest (that I know).
For the actual investing, you can go with managed options/funds and get higher returns than indexed, but it could also go the other way. It is like stock picking. Sure, there is a good component of skills and knowledge involved, but also a big part of luck.
It seems that the majority of managed investments end up underperforming the index.
So it makes sense to go for index options, at least you pay the lowest investment fees.
Yes some managed funds have had 20% or 30% returns in 1 year. If you just bought Nvidia you would have decuplicated your investment in 2 years. But it could easily go the other way.
If you think about it, an indexed option is also managed in a way. I mean the index keeps changing and underperforming companies get replaced in rhe index by better performing ones. That is a sort of managing that the index does. And your fund does that automatically without paying top dollars to some stock picking guru that gets paid a percentage of your whole capital regardless of making or losing you money.
As you mention it would be worth comparing each super fund indexed option to the corrisponding ETF. Say Australian Shares Indexed vs VAS.
Another consideration is, is the australian shares indexed option just investing in index ETFs? If they do, is their investment fee on top of the ETF fee already built in the ETF price?You touch on a reason that an index fund is guaranteed to underperform the index over the long term. The rebalancing of the index requires the index fund to exit companies dropped from the index and buy companies added to the index. This churn moves the share prices of those companies meaning the index fund pays a spread penalty compared to the index itself.
That's not in itself a reason against index funds. It just means the comment that "managed investments end up underperforming the index" needs to be checked against the extent that "index funds underperform the index" also.
If you arent taking a big interest and believe that 'stock picking' at an institutional level is just luck, rather than research of sectors, talking with company boards, considering trends and trading quickly when there is a change - then go Index and you wont be unhappy or poor. Then its the Super admin fee and the level of service you get for that. Also consider the actual dollar cost of varying % costs. 0.2% is $1,000 on $500,000 but may be the difference if you need to contact, waiting on a call centre line for hours or getting work done more quickly, via online.
I have found ART have good online interaction though investment choices are limited. Performance of their Index options is good and cheap and you can DIY blend, better than Uni, AS. HostPlus also cheap Index, has more options. Found them terrible for service in the past but are trying to get better.
NB they are all fishing in the same pool and price differences arent that big, getting the right investment allocation and putting money in are the 2 biggest factors in your success. You need 'good', 'great' is a bit harder to come by.
I moved half my money from an AWARE Super accumulation account to a HostPlus Account Based Pension in July 2022.
Negatives: Their App doesn't work with ABPs so you have to go online.
Positives:
Fees are low for their Indexed Balanced & Index High Growth options.
They've answered all my online queries promptly.
Phone queries answered within a reasonable timeframe and Australian based call centres with people that could speak un-accented english and they didn't have crappy VOIP and low quality headsets.
It's easy to change payment amount and frequency.
The annual account statement comes out promptly - about 6 weeks earlier than AWARE.
It's an Index fund so returns follow the market. If the market craps the bed the balance goes down, if the market is going well the balance goes up. At the time I moved AWARE only had (pretty crap) stock pickers.NB: I also have money with AusSuper and they are quite good too AND their app works with ABPs.
I have pension and accumulation accounts with HostPlus and the app not working with the pension account is definitely HPs biggest negative. I have discussed this with HP and there are no plans to enhance the app to add pension account functionality. Apparently HP have very few members asking for this.
- 1
- 2
Industry superannuation fund Hostplus has handed down one of the worst annual returns in the sector for its default product, but says it is “very comfortable” with its performance and its long-term investment plan remains on track.
The fund’s MySuper balanced option grew by just 7.6 per cent for the 2023–24 financial year. Rivals clocked returns in the double digits as global technology stocks fuelled soaring equity prices.
The median balanced super fund, which is generally a MySuper product nominated by a fund as a default product for new customers, returned about 8.8 per cent, according to SuperRatings.
Over the same period, the S&P/ASX 200 returned 7.8 per cent and the S&P 500 returned 22.7 per cent.
But Hostplus chief investment officer Sam Sicilia said the fact his fund’s MySuper returns fell short of these figures was not the result of taking a bad short-term bet on the markets, as other funds falling below the median return have claimed.
Instead, he said, it reflected Hostplus’ commitment to its investment strategy to drive returns over 10 and 20 years given its young customer base and the long-term nature of superannuation.
“This isn’t ‘we thought it was going to crash and we went defensive’ – we just continued with our long-term plan,” he said.
“We’re highly diversified across all asset classes, both listed and unlisted. That’s what we’ve been doing for 20 years, and it’s what we did last year. It’s just that last year was all about listed markets [for returns].
“But I’m very comfortable with our outcome.”
AustralianSuper also delivered lower returns than rivals for its default option in the last financial year at 8.5 per cent. However, chief investment officer Mark Delaney said the fund was too defensive around Christmas and missed out on much of the tech rally as a result.
Cbus also fell below the pack with a return of 8.4 per cent. CIO Brett Chatfield blamed its heavy exposure to unlisted property for the fund’s overall returns.
Long-term focus
The average age of Hostplus’ 1.8 million members is 37, compared with 50-plus at some other funds.
Mr Sicilia pointed out the fund’s commitment to maintaining diversification also meant its default option was one of the top performers during the pandemic, when plummeting sharemarkets sent most funds into the red for returns.
It returned an average of 8.3 per cent a year for the decade to June 30, 2024, and 7.9 per cent a year over the preceding 20 years. This outperformed its investment target of CPI plus 3 per cent over 10 years, and CPI plus 4 per cent over 20 years.
Looking at what performed well, Hostplus’ growth, like that of other funds, largely came from its exposure to global technology stocks, especially the “Magnificent Seven” – Alphabet, Amazon, Apple, Meta, Microsoft, Nvidia, and Tesla.
Nvidia’s value skyrocketed over the year, making the chipmaker the world’s most valuable company in June, while the broader technology sector benefited from an artificial intelligence investor frenzy.
“Credit was also completely out of this world in terms of its equity-like returns of low single digits,” Mr Sicilia said. “Infrastructure was also good as a strong mid-risk asset.”
The fund’s balanced pension option delivered growth of 8.4 per cent, while its indexed balanced option was among the strongest in the sector at 12.1 per cent.
“That’s the same story – we didn’t change anything [about our strategy] there. It just got swept up in the equity market,” Mr Sicilia said.