Second Hand EVs Seem Cheap! Anything to Look out for?

cannedhams on 05/07/2024 - 09:41

From Drive:-

https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/used-electric-car-prices-…

"Electric cars between two and four years old held on to just 57.6 per cent of their value, while electric cars five years of age or older were worth less than 25 per cent of their original purchase price when resold."

Seems to check out. 2nd hand Hyundai Ionics going for about the 20K mark after four years:-

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/hyundai/ioniq/queensland-st…

Worthwhile as a second car wouldnt you say? Or is there a sting in the tail?

Automotive Electric Vehicle

Comments

  • Duckie2hh on 05/07/2024 - 09:46
    +10

    Anything to Look out for?

    Engine wear.

    :p

    • Helmuth on 05/07/2024 - 10:06
      +24

      Make sure they've changed the engine oil recently.

      • Drakesy on 05/07/2024 - 11:25
        +8

        And the spark plugs.

        • changyang1230 on 05/07/2024 - 11:48
          +3

          While you are at it make sure the blinker fluid is recently changed.

        • RTX9090Ti on 06/07/2024 - 14:20
          +2

          As my trusted mechanic said, have you checked the oil and water?

        • 0806449 on 06/07/2024 - 18:22
          +3

          Diesel particle filter

      • Hvrd on 08/07/2024 - 09:26

        and can't forget about the important coolant, head gasket, or one of the other 1000's of moving parts

    • JIMB0 on 05/07/2024 - 12:23
      +5

      Check for a rusty exhaust system.

      • DashCam AKA Rolts on 05/07/2024 - 21:20
        +3

        Make sure no-one has stolen the catalytic convertor.

      • greatlamp on 06/07/2024 - 11:53
        +16

        You often post quite insightful takes. Can't you see how this is a clickbait article?

        • May4th on 06/07/2024 - 12:02
          +18

          poor effort for an article, cherry picking a discontinued early adopter Model S which the delusional owner is selling significantly above market value to make a point

      • noz on 07/07/2024 - 08:47
        +12

        For believing articles from news.com.au, your username should be "HeWhoDoesntKnow"

        • Euphemistic on 07/07/2024 - 12:09
          +6

          HeWhoIsMisled

        • JIMB0 on 08/07/2024 - 16:11

          HeWhoIsKnob

    • SillySorjai on 06/07/2024 - 16:27
      +5

      Make sure the engine isn't missing!

      These days the dodgy mechanics steal them entirely

  • Gdsamp on 05/07/2024 - 09:48
    +4

    1st gen EV = ewaste product

    Also there only 1 Hyundai Ioniq EV in Australia that you might say is around the 20k mark but it's got very high KMs and is 23k. 2-4x the km of anything starting at 25k

    • cannedhams on 05/07/2024 - 10:04
      +2

      yes but these are hardly 1st gen EVs. theyre only four years old.

      • Gdsamp on 05/07/2024 - 10:10
        +10

        It's a compliance car built on a Hybrid/ICE platform. That it was sold in the US only in California until other states adopted those emissions regs speaks volumes.

  • coffeeinmyveins on 05/07/2024 - 09:53
    +2

    Worthwhile as a second car wouldnt you say? Or is there a sting in the tail?

    Maybe there's a reason why they depreciate so much after 5 years?

    • HeWhoKnows on 06/07/2024 - 07:56
      +7

      Correct!
      This expalins why:
      https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/motoring-news/sc…

      Basically EVs suffer high depreciation for several reasons:
      1. Significant New Car Dealer Discounting
      2. The fact EVs are a technology product and all technology products suffer from very fast depreciation as the technology improves every year
      3. Battery degradation and no way to check condition of battery
      4. High cost to replace battery - much more than a car engine
      5. production of EVs has increased with many more competitors whilst demand is not keeping up
      6. Cheap Chinese EVs are dragging down the whole market
      7. Most countries dont have the infrastructure to support EVs outside of metro areas - particularly in Australia!

      • 2esc on 06/07/2024 - 11:13
        +3

        Also lot of people in Australia rely on the secondhand car market and they are hesitant to look at EVs due to the unknown. A lot of people repair and service their own cars and information on how to repair a EV is very limited.

        In the U.S. keen Tesla owners repairing and or rebuilding wrecked Teslas have recieved letters from Tesla i think they were called cease and desist letters about uploading / sharing of information. One of these guys was going through the process of changing the batteries and recording his efforts.

        These fans of Tesla cars love Tesla cars sharing of knowledge keeps cars on the road longer and is good for the environment.

        Cant fix it lets throw it away thats not good for the environment that EV cars are supposed to be helping.

    • greatlamp on 06/07/2024 - 11:58
      +9

      Because "EVs" used to be a couple of massively overpriced models and are now competing with new models on the market that RRP for a fraction of the price. This situation won't be repeated, a 40k EV you buy today isn't going to depreciate as quickly.

      The current situation is an opportunity to pick up a bargain and get a heavily discounted Model S, but people would rather feel superior about their decision to not buy one earlier because they were too poor.

      • serpserpserp on 08/07/2024 - 10:47

        This situation won't be repeated, a 40k EV you buy today isn't going to depreciate as quickly.

        Well unless new EVs drop to 30k new in 2 or 3 years. Then they'll absolutely wipe the value of an EV bought in 2024.

        • greatlamp on 08/07/2024 - 12:05
          +1

          I think that is very likely to happen, however that isn't the same situation as buying the Model S or a Leaf.

          A 30k EV would put downward price pressure on all cars, not only other EVs, so it makes no difference to the purchasing decision today.

  • FoxJump on 05/07/2024 - 10:04
    +44

    sigh, since when does Carsales want me to log in for price?
    Good bye carsales.

      • FoxJump on 05/07/2024 - 11:15
        +47

        but it doesnt require me to log in to read does it?

          • LanceVance on 05/07/2024 - 13:07
            +24

            @MS Paint: Pricing insights is one thing, but maybe you just want to scroll through a page of cars and get an idea of prices. It's a step too far to remove that visibility. That and their new UI is rubbish.

      • smartazz104 on 08/07/2024 - 09:36
        +2

        That's to minimise spam, oh wait…

      • initiateit on 08/07/2024 - 19:05

        Oh snap.

    • mapax on 05/07/2024 - 10:33

      It must be in the past 48hrs because I was looking for cheap utes on Wednesday and all the prices were visible.

    • barge-in hunter on 05/07/2024 - 11:20
      +1

      Yeah, I've had that once or twice. Seems like they're running some long standing experiments or something, to see if they can get away with making it permanent.

      Either clear your cache or try another browser - that worked for me.

    • coffeeinmyveins on 05/07/2024 - 12:54
      +1

      I get this when I'm on my work VPN for some reason.

      I don't think it's an AB test like others have suggested. I think it's a geolocation thing.

    • Ozbar Gain on 05/07/2024 - 13:11
      +3

      Pretty sure its not geolocation or A/B testing. They let you see certain number of listings with pricing and then lock you out seeing the pricing for a while (could be a few days)

      • Ozbar Gain on 05/07/2024 - 14:59
        +12

        Because you're viewing ads! If they want to get people to see the ads it shouldn't be a burden on said people

    • photonbuddy on 06/07/2024 - 11:19
      +1

      I noticed this yesterday.

      In my case, I could see the price when searching and showing pages of results, but clicking on a listing saw the log-in for price message.

      Seriously … how F'n stupid. Show the price, and then hide the price.

      This kind of stupidity is why sites have hundreds of thousands of accounts created, and used once. So many sites require you to make an account to read articles, for example, and so once you read the article that Google has sent you to, you never go back.

      Plain insanity.

    • Speckled Jim on 06/07/2024 - 12:02

      I don't have an account and OP's Queensland Ioniq prices show for me. What gives?
      I'm on desktop if that makes a difference.

    • pulpfiction on 06/07/2024 - 12:52

      Can be caused by a VPN or some other security flag.

    • kaleidoscope on 06/07/2024 - 16:34

      worst service ever… listed my previous car in it with paid package and all but low ballers and shit dealers making crapiest offers. fb marketplace was the way to go.

    • 0806449 on 06/07/2024 - 18:26

      Since the last time you checked Carsales

  • Danstar on 05/07/2024 - 10:05
    +3

    Because the cost of a new one will be about the same soon enough

    • michaelTito on 06/07/2024 - 19:59
      -1

      Because the cost of a new one will be about the same soon enough

  • deeevan on 05/07/2024 - 10:06
    +2

    I don’t know the Ioniq history, but battery health and technology improvements are the big things I’d look at. Just on that link you shared, I can see that the MY20 model has longer range. Either bigger battery or more efficient? No idea how this compares to the current model, so what are you missing out on with the price cut?

    When we were car shopping, that narrowed down our search range to two years old.

    • cannedhams on 05/07/2024 - 13:13

      Thanks for this. What's the best way to go about verifying battery health?

      • Cliche Guevara on 06/07/2024 - 13:51
        +1

        The 'easiest' way is to charge the battery from almost empty to full and see how many kWh is needed. Compare this with factory spec. But sometimes the battery has an unspecified buffer. In saying that, it's unlikely a 4 year old car would have more than 5% degradation.

        • changyang1230 on 06/07/2024 - 19:05

          There’s always a charging loss so what you use at the wall box is generally some 5% more than what the car battery actually gets.

  • DingoBilly on 05/07/2024 - 10:13
    +14

    It's probably an inefficiency in the market and reflects that consumers have range/battery anxiety and don't know how to value second hand EVs realistically.

    You'd still want to do normal checks and all but there's no way a 4 year old EV has lost 50% of its battery or similar functions.

    Add in the recent scare mongering about EVs and all in all these are likely a great bargain.

  • JimB on 05/07/2024 - 10:35
    +8

    There's nothing wrong with an older EV. Yes, it may have lost some battery capacity but it's not by a huge amount.

    The issue with older EV and resale value is that they were very expensive when new. Newer, better EVs are much cheaper than before, therefore older ones will drop.

    I can see a time were people who don't car what car they drive will pick up a cheap older EV because it's overall cheaper than an ICE car.

    On the whole an 10-20yo EV will be more reliable than a 10-20yo ICE car.

    I do feel sorry for early adopters of EVs, even ones who purchased one last year (e.g. pre-update Model 3)… but that's the case with every new piece of technology, be it mobile phones, DVDs or Plasma TVs. New ones are cheaper and better.

    • LanceVance on 05/07/2024 - 13:08

      Only thing is if something goes wrong with a major EV component you're much more likely for it to be more than the value of the car to repair.

      • JimB on 05/07/2024 - 15:51
        +13

        No different from an ICE engine that requires a rebuild once they get old. I just towed away my ICE car for the very same reason.

        At the moment, if a EV has a battery fault, they will replace the whole battery pack under warranty.

        In future, once out of warranty, there will be auto electricians who will be able to repair battery packs or drive or swap them from written off EVs.

        FYI- I don't own an EV or plan to buy an EV in the near future.

        • Zondor on 07/07/2024 - 13:05
          +1

          If you look around enough you can find electrical people that will replace individual cells in a pack. It's high expertise which is why people just do a swap and change which is easier and lower risk.

          As EV's take more marketshare, I think pack repair will become more commonplace due to demand.

        • LanceVance on 08/07/2024 - 11:43
          +1

          A lot of assumptions there. You don't have to look very hard for out of warranty owners being quoted more than the car is worth for repairs. Whilst I agree this will improve as market share increases its still an uncertain situation for many potential owners.

          • JimB on 08/07/2024 - 13:26
            -1

            @LanceVance: BYD offers 6 years warranty (8 years on the battery).

            I'm sure by then they will have worked out how to economically repair out of warranty cars and also have written off cars to use for parts.

            It's like Apple products.. after a while, the aftermarket will be able to repair it.

            • ssfps on 09/07/2024 - 02:05
              +2

              @JimB: Wishful thinking in a world where laptop and phone batteries now ship with DRM and e-fuses to thwart repairability in the name of "safety".

  • Noppy on 05/07/2024 - 10:48
    +2

    When are they going to be cheap enough that you can just buy them for their old battery and DIY it as a battery backup for your home?

    • pegaxs on 05/07/2024 - 11:54
      +8

      Buy a wrecked one. Saw a write off BYD Atto 3 that was still drivable sell at auction recently for about $8000… for a 60kWh battery. Part the rest out, get almost all your money back. There is no way you will get a home 60kWh LiFePo pack for less than $8k that would power an average house for a week.

      If that isn’t affordable, I don’t know what is…

      • changyang1230 on 05/07/2024 - 11:58

        Is there already a commercial entity that does car-battery-to-home-battery conversion?

        It always sounds like a good idea but I don't know if it's already there.

        • pegaxs on 05/07/2024 - 12:06

          Don’t know, but I know there are heaps of videos on how to do Leaf battery conversions. Outside that, I don’t know how you would go about connecting it to your house or the grid or what sort of certification you would need.

        • Zephyrus on 07/07/2024 - 17:17
          +2

          Relectrify does this. It makes a lot of sense, the cells are far cheaper used and it's not a big deal if it's physically a bit bigger for the same capacity compare to something with new cells if it's much cheaper.

      • Noppy on 06/07/2024 - 10:50

        Thats nice, going to look into it. Certainly won't be legal but the value for money is unmatched.

        • BartholemewH on 06/07/2024 - 21:32
          +1

          If a Diy conversion burns your house down and voids your insurance, the value for money is inverted.

    • Ricktheroller on 07/07/2024 - 21:42
      -1

      This sounds like a dangerously bad idea.

  • barge-in hunter on 05/07/2024 - 10:55
    +6

    One thing these metrics are missing is the market trend - the cost of new EVs is dropping.

    Of course, one bought for $100k 3 years ago will "depreciate" like crazy, if the same model can now be bought new for $70k. The price is rebalancing against both depreciation, and cost reduction of the new unit.

    I'm sure there are a lot of other factors at play here, but a better point of comparison is % of value lost vs the current cost of a new model.

    Note: just making up the numbers here to illustrate the point - I haven't looked at pricing of specific models

    • MS Paint on 05/07/2024 - 11:01
      +1

      Depreciation costs cents. Cheers

  • Drakesy on 05/07/2024 - 11:27
    +6

    It's just more anti-ev shill.

    It's the same with any car that once had a waitlist and now is freely available.
    ICE vehicles have a similar, if not worse depreciation rate. All bar toyota.

  • pegaxs on 05/07/2024 - 11:38
    +12

    lol. What a load of shit. Show me where I can buy a Tesla Model 3 that is about 4 years old for less than 25% of what it was bought for… 100% I hate Tesla vehicles, but if I could buy one for under $20k, I would be on it today.

    Your example of the Ionic is poor at best. It was a piss poor selling, over priced, low range, dog box. Any ICE vehicle that fits into the same category would suffer an equally dismal resale value.

    That being said, if you need a small sedan to do the work commute, kid drop off and that kind of thing and are not going to rely on it to go on road trips and are prepared to basically drive it into the ground then it would be an ideal car if the prices are as low as you are saying. It’s a win for you.

    I also don’t get this whole “I’m not buying a EV until they are cheaper” and then shitting on them when they are cheaper…

    • cannedhams on 05/07/2024 - 13:16
      +6

      Uh, I didn't think I was shitting on them?

    • Iwantthebestprice on 06/07/2024 - 20:01
      +2

      I agree with people shitting on EV when they get cheaper, but the EV market has bought this upon themselves. I was in the market 2 months ago for a model Tesla Y my brother in law bought one, 3 weeks after his delivery the price dropped 3K, that’s over 2 years of “petrol savings” lost in a second! I now won’t buy one now because it seems to be a race to the bottom. I’m all for EV, driven a Tesla, love it, best ride I’ve had and acceleration is out of this world, but now I’m forever in this cycle of waiting for a price drop so now I might wait another year. And who knows by then a new battery technology will be on the horizon and everyone will wait for that to come out. I wish the market was more stable to instil some confidence.

  • Cluster on 05/07/2024 - 11:42
    +3

    First generation Ioniqs had a range of about 270km, but realistically you won't achieve that even in a new car. The real world range is usually about 20% lower in EVs, and of course you can't risk driving an EV down to 10% or less charge, so the real world usable range of the first gen Ioniq is somewhere around 200km. If that's fine for you then the car may be a good choice.

    • Euphemistic on 05/07/2024 - 12:08
      +11

      As a second car i'd be surprised if many people need more than 200km. They might think they want more, but if you can charge at home nightly very few people actually do 200km in a day. Thw average is more like 30km per day.

      • mungicide on 08/07/2024 - 09:38

        I travel to and fro work per day for ~160-180km. Will this work? My current diesel last 1000km so should I have range anxiety?

        • Euphemistic on 08/07/2024 - 13:25

          Youre a bit of an outlier with that ma y kms, but if you can charge at home overnight a 200km range car would do the job. However, you probably want 2 days worth of travel for your range just in case.

          • Lunarboogie on 09/07/2024 - 06:29

            @Euphemistic: A bit of an outlier? Bro is Grizzly Adams. If he's smug wasting 3 hours each day in traffic, I'd hate to know the rest of his life.

            • mungicide on 10/07/2024 - 09:52

              @Lunarboogie: oh WFH few days. im just concerned getting 2nd hand EV battery degradation could be worse that real world usable range would not bring me to and fro from work…

              • changyang1230 on 10/07/2024 - 11:01

                @mungicide: Standard car battery these days do 350km as a minimum when new. (Talking about real world range rather than the unrealistic WLTP figure displayed on the label)

                Even the worst degradation over many years and/or hundreds of thousands od km is 10-15% for modern batteries with good battery management system (which is pretty much everything except the earlier Nissan Leaf).

                Which means you will be fine even with the worse end of degradation for majority of cars.

                • mungicide on 10/07/2024 - 11:10

                  @changyang1230: sorry i was looking at first gen ioniq. would that be ok?

                  • changyang1230 on 10/07/2024 - 14:34

                    @mungicide: Don’t know about this specific car sorry; leaf is the most infamous one but I can’t definitively say anything abut the Ioniq either.

        • changyang1230 on 08/07/2024 - 13:31

          You will need a wall box, but when you do have one it’s a non-issue as you will wake up to a full battery every morning.

        • vtml on 08/07/2024 - 14:10
          +1

          Overnight charging (between 12am - 6am) with a proper EVSE at 7kWh for Single phase or 11 / 22 kWh for 3 phase will be more than enough for your needs.

          • Euphemistic on 08/07/2024 - 17:40
            +4

            @vtml: Plus doing that many kms the payback period is a lot quicker.

    • md333 on 05/07/2024 - 12:20
      +2

      Are you speaking from experience with Ioniqs? From the people I know with them, they seem to get much closer to the claimed range than most EVs. Plenty of range for a city car with charging at home which seems to be what OP suggested.
      Still not actually much around in the way of cheap EVs though, despite the headlines.
      I think in a couple of years when lots of the FBT novated leases start expiring there could be a much better range.
      Personally happy to have paid a bit more as I get to drive an EV now rather than waiting a couple of years though.

  • Brick Tamland on 05/07/2024 - 11:52
    +1

    The main thing to watch out for is paying too much and getting smashed by depreciation.

    That Hyundai for example with 174,000KM on the clock is grossly over-priced and you can see that its had 18 price updates which means its been for sale for a very long time (over 12 months) and it aint moving. I'd say its worth maybe a slight premium over a used Leaf, so might be worth entertaining for around $10k if its still got reasonable range left.

  • Euphemistic on 05/07/2024 - 12:03
    +6

    Check the battery health. Otherwise, just the usual checks you'd carry out for any used car.

    The usual anti EV crowd will jump on stories like this, so be careful what you listen to in response.

    Important things to note:
    Recent survey of 15000 evs had less than 2% of batteries needing replacement - not including a couple of recall models.
    Battery degradation slows after a initial drops.
    Range will still be good in most EVs at even 10yo.

    https://youtu.be/DL8ot9JqS78?si=Zd4WO-SYa3-i0SG0

  • GordonD on 05/07/2024 - 12:35
    +10

    With their rapid depreciation, second hand EVs are starting to look like a damn good choice for a second car.

    • Euphemistic on 05/07/2024 - 17:28
      +4

      Let all the EV haters keep dissing them and the informed will get some bargains because 'all the batteries fail at 10y' or 'your range will be 50% after 5y' amd anyone poorly informed will jeep avoiding them.

      • cashless on 05/07/2024 - 19:18
        +12

        anyone poorly informed will jeep

        I agreed with that bit. Jeep owners are poorly informed

  • Nillionaire on 05/07/2024 - 14:50
    +3

    I'd buy a new Tesla over a used one for peace of mind since used ones aren't significantly cheaper. At this point, I would not consider any other EVs at its price range or cheaper.

  • subydooby on 06/07/2024 - 09:47
    +6

    Why do we all get so worked up about ICE and Electric cars? Surely they just fill different objectives. I guess people just gotta hate.

    • pegaxs on 06/07/2024 - 12:12
      +4

      I’ve never understood this. Why do people get so bent out of shape over what fuel someone else puts in their car. Why isn’t there this huge divide and agro between petrol and diesel, or diesel and LPG?

      Do you think this whole bullshit misinformation and fear campaign existed 120 years ago when petrol cars were taking off and the “horse and buggy lobby” were getting all offended about “automobiles” ??

      • Euphemistic on 06/07/2024 - 13:59
        +3

        Social media. All thebecho chambers plus the bots and comment farms that keep trying to steer us back to fossil fuels to keep the profits high.

      • scix on 07/07/2024 - 11:37

        Do you think this whole bullshit misinformation and fear campaign existed 120 years ago when petrol cars were taking off and the “horse and buggy lobby” were getting all offended about “automobiles” ??

        Yes, there was. There was plenty of resistance against cars, both legitimate (safety, pollution) and less legitimate (legacy industries). The resistance today though is mostly not legitimate, although you could make the argument that car use in general needs to be reduced, which isn't an argument against EVs specifically.

      • gakko on 08/07/2024 - 09:26

        The attitude definitely existed. It exists for every social and cultural change piece. People always wax lyrical about how misguided the new wave is. People go on about how misguided the haters are (this is me). Then once its mainstream and non-scary, everyone focuses on the next thing.

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