So When Will We See EV Prices Actually Go down?

So I've been exploring the possibility of purchasing an EV vehicle while the government has this FBT exemption for EV vehicles.

I'm tossing up whether to try pick up something now or wait until EV prices go down. However with inflation, low supply and high demand, it seems like EV vehicles are actually going up in price (generally)?? The FBT exemption is going to be reviewed in 2027, so there is a chance it might end by that time. The longer I wait, the less time I could have the vehicle FBT free.

So should I wait until there is more stock and competition for EVs, or should I get something now? Current model of ICE works fine, so from a practical point of view I don't NEED to upgrade now. But also concerned ICE values will drop quicker as EVs become more prevalent.

Comments

  • +6

    So When Will We See EV Prices Actually Go down?

    When there's lower demand. (I can't see that being any time soon!)

    • +6

      Or when there is more competition. More manufacturers are starting to deliver EV models so I dont see the prices going up but not sure if they would come down.

      • Which is more supply. Goes hand in hand with their point of ‘low demand’.

      • +1

        The more competition theory won't apply here because China has almost a monopoly when it comes to Lithium and batteries. If they can't make it enough, it will never go down in price. By never I mean at least a decade. The demand for 30-35k EV would be through the roof if it was readily available - I am guessing 50% of the car sales would be EVs if not more.

        • +5

          The Chinese car market is not only the biggest in the world (for both ICE and EVs, it is the most intensely competitive. Their car makers - mostly privately owned - compete against each other and are likely to do so in export markets too, as the Japanese did.

          They once had a near monopoly on lithium but those days are gone already. They import most of their lithium now - in fact 2024 is the year when Oz is expected to become the largest lithium exporter in the world (we've been a bit slow getting our mines going, having wasted too much time arguing over legacy coal).

          As for batteries themselves they are the largest producer, sure, as they are of cars. But they've nowhere near a monopoly. Perhaps of more concern for those afraid of the Yellow Peril is that CATL (state owned Chinese) have established a clear lead in the most advanced batteries, through pouring a shitload of money*** into R&D.

          *** technical term used in economics

          • +1

            @derrida derider: I agree with almost everything you have said. Most of the mined lithium has to make it to China before battries can be produced is definitely a concern for me. The prospect of potentially mining lithium in Aussie land is also very promising. Although being in an inferior right hand drive market doesn't help either. 3/4 years ago I thought I would be able to buy an affordable EV around 2023 haha and have solar battries like Tesla Powerwall for half they would cost then. Now I believe we will have to wait about a decade to own that $30k lightweight EV hatch. I hope I will be proven horribly wrong though.

            • +2

              @MKBHD:

              The prospect of potentially mining lithium in Aussie land is also very promising.

              Australia is already one of the world's largest miner's lithium ores. According to this article Australia was the world's largest producer of lithium ores in 2022.

          • +1

            @derrida derider: Damn China investing in science. Why can't they just dig holes in the ground like we do?

    • +2

      When the Australian dollar goes up.

  • +26

    Huh? What are you talking about? Tesla used car values are dropping like stones, there are EV’s under $50k with other benefits for purchasing, such as government incentives like cash back, no stamp duty and FBT novated lease benefits…

    There are new EV’s coming soon that will be down around the $40k bracket…

    The other thing to do is look at like for like cars. People need to stop comparing a base model Kia Picanto to a Tesla Model Y, Long Range, AWD performance…

    And look at it from an industry perspective. It’s early days for EV at the moment. Massive demand as focus moves from ICE to EV. All parts of the automotive industry is under high demand pressure… EV’s probably more so… so, until we see more and more models and more different configurations of EV making their way down here, there isn’t going to be any “massive drop” or $19,990 drive way EV’s for a few years yet.

    • What are the EVs coming out for around $40k? Or is that without onroad costs?

      • +5

        The MG4 is 45K + on road cost. Depending on where you are you can get between 3-6k rebate. And that's is a longer range model (~450km), the shorter range should be cheaper when it comes out in the end of the year. The cheapest available now is probably the MG ZS EV which is about 45K after rebate (used to be 42k when i bought earlier in the year).

        • +2

          BYD Dolphin also rumoured to hit a $40k-ish price

          • @poppingtags: That is one ugly looking car though, inside and out.

            • @MKBHD: BYD Dolphin is beatifuli when adding trip arund the world compared to ovepriced Tesla. It comes with bonus mucb better space utilisation, rear wiper & lkely better battery (BYD are leaders in battery production).

              • @taki: BYD is beautiful? HAHAHAHAHAH. Have you seen the big obnoxious "BUILD YOUR DREAMS" logo all over those shitboxes? Nearly as bad as seeing RAM in your face on all the yank tanks.

    • +1

      When I talked to novated lease companies recently, a couple mentioned quite a few people on high salaries were taking 1yr leases on Teslas, getting the max depreciation hit, paying out the balloon payment after 1yr and selling the car at the end for profit.

      • Back in the day the used prices were more than new prices.

        Not these days… however that strategy can still work as the selling price can be significantly higher than the balloon, doesn't mean that there's a huge profit though.

      • with the new EV rebate, the best strategy is to have the lease as long as possible due to no FBT on EV.

        • I'm hoping that VIc matches the rebate in QLD

          Then again, they probably wouldn't backdate it and knowing my luck it'll be the day after mine comes in from port

      • Exactly what I’m planning. Then rinse and repeat. Anyone see a reason why it’s not a great idea?

  • Teslas are cheap, but not cheap enough

    • -4

      They definitely are cheap

      • Yup the safest cars ever made are definitely cheap.

  • +39

    The second you buy one.

    • +3

      Crypto flashbacks :S

      • +1

        you seem a bit paranoid

        • +4

          you're underestimating me with "bit"

  • +1

    Soon enough? I just saw a special on Al Jazeera about price wars coming soon. So maybe in the next few years it'll trickle down to Australia.

  • +2

    If you want an EV and can afford it, just do it! Cars are a significant purchase so why spend a bunch of money on an ICE car you don’t really want?

    • +7

      Likewise why spend a bunch on an EV you don't want? Better off waiting for something that fits budget and other requirements than just the cheapest EV possible

    • -5

      because EVs are boring

      • +2

        If by boring you mean too quiet. Otherwise they handle well due to low centre of gravity, have instant torque and never need to tell it which gear to be in.

        • i don't think they handle well. EV makers will sell you the idea that batteries are packed low (which does shift the centre of gravity downwards) but they also weigh a lot… Besides there is more to handling than just centre of gravity and weight, it's also about how the chassis and suspension components interact with the road environment.

          Take the Taycan Turbo S for instance, makes 560Kw and 1050Nm managed 7m30s on the Nurburgring. The 992 Carrera S (inferior power-to-weight and the Taycan is MUCH MUCH MUCH faster) managed the same time as well.

          Instant torque on EV is nice… but many German ICEs make instant torque down low from around 1200-1300 rpm. The B48 and B58 for example, terrific engine. Besides, the newer torque converters and dual clutches no longer hunt for gears anymore when you step on it.

          • +1

            @dukeGR4: How often do you need that kind of torque, speed, whatever driving to work? Same with the 0-60 everyone goes on about. On my commute I'm lucky to get to 60 in one go as it is. If you want a muscle car to rally or whatever, godspeed to you, but 90% of the use of any given car is gonna be basic commuting (unless you are a tradie).

            Which EV models are you saying don't handle well? The one's I've either test driven or been in for a drive handle as well as any other car I've driven for day to day driving

            • +2

              @seannami: I think duke was pointing out that you don't need an EV to have high torque at the low end, which is often touted as an EV's key advantage. The other key point is that EVs do not have good handling compared to ICE vehicles that have been designed to have good handling, they just have good handling compared to the terribile handling of the average ICE SUV.

              It used to be that the average sedan already had quite a bit of low end torque when 6 cyl was the baseline, and 8 cyl was available for a little more.

              These days you would be cross shopping an EV with its huge torque figures against a 4cyl ICE vehicle with one or two turbos, (e.g. a Mercedes c300) so the difference in torque is very substantial.

              These are comments in response to the EV crowd that are claiming EVs drive better than ICE vehicles. If a car is just an appliance to you then you aren't part of the conversation.

            • +2

              @seannami: i'm not the one saying I need a billion amount of torque. I am responding to the other person saying "instant torque" is nice, and raising the fact that many modern ICEs do in fact have an almost instantaneous torque as well.

              • @dukeGR4: I apologise if that felt aimed at you, I was more making a general statement around the whole "EVs are boring"/car performance matters in general narrative, not trying to have a go.

                I was asking about the handling more directly, but I hadn't realised the context of the discussion had moved to luxury and hobby-driving rather than general use.

            • +1

              @seannami: you mentioned yourself, for the purposes of day-to-day commute it's all homogenous. My definition of good handling is the ability for a car to carve corners. I would not be surprised if a humble GT86 could destroy 99% of the EVs out there in twisties. Heck, hypothetically you could put Tsuchiya in his AE86 and wring the shit out of that 4A-GE and he will probably destroy most EVs in twisties too.

              Car output is listed as the MAXIMUM output at a specified range/rpm. I suppose having such a high power ceiling means you could use very little power to get around. In luxury car context, it's more opulent and luxurious and more refined as it always has power on reserve and does not need to be wringed. In the performance car context it means the car is just more responsive to your input and you could get it to do what you want.

          • @dukeGR4: This guy, as if Nurburgring times are relevant when most people sit on the freeways Monday-Friday. The top selling cars here are boring too, most people treat cars like an appliance or to compensate for something they lack.

            • +4

              @smartazz104: I brought up Nurburgring time to highlight the fact that EVs do not handle as well as ICEs that have inferior specs.

              People with performance cars don't daily their cars to work. They keep it as a weekender and take it out for spirited drives. The line of thinking and the way they consume the experience is vastly different compared to someone that treat their cars as just another white good.

          • +1

            @dukeGR4: No idea why you're being negged so hard for what is a fact. They are heavy as heck and don't handle well relative to the MUCH lighter ICE cars that came immediately prior.
            Whilst I take people points re driving to work what if you don't drive to work and you just own and drive cars largely for fun..

            • +1

              @drprox: yeap, i highlighted above - people that love and enjoy cars will probably use it as a weekender.

              Nurburgring track times may not be relevant to a commuter, but to a car person it's an indication of what the car is capable of and perhaps they too can take it to say, Sandown and Philip Island when they're free.

          • @dukeGR4: "Take these $350k+ cars for example, which are entirely relevant to our discussion about commuter vehicles"

            • @GrueHunter: FL5 Type R and Tesla Model 3 Performance share the same lap time of 7m44s on nurburgring, whilst being 10k+ cheaper lol. Model 3 has superior specs, but Type R beats it.

              Golf R is around 3s behind, but again, it's much cheaper than a Model 3 Performance and has inferior specs on paper.

              Are you happy now lol.

      • +1

        Oh how we'd all miss those small penis guys screeching around in loud cars.

  • While I’m sure there are some lower priced EVs coming, I think that ICE tech vehicles will drop before EVs….

  • +1

    Like all tech its going down . Right now there is too many people desperate buying new cars . Give it a year or two especially with people now coming off fixed interest rates and the change is coming. They will have to start offering incentives again to move floor stock .

  • +3

    I reckon demand for EVs isn’t going to slow anytime soon. High demand = higher prices.

    Most of the current crop of EVs are still ‘premium’ vehicles sold to early adopters who want to buy rather than those who are just buying the cheapest transport they can get. Until we get a much bigger range of models available manufacturers don’t need to compete on price. Even the MG/BYD models would probably be cheaper if they were more keen on buying market share. But they know they’ve already got the cheapest in the market and plenty of people lined up to purchase.

  • +2

    Well, all the car makers spend a fair bit of money on EV changeover, now it's time for them to milk us while demand is high. So it is a while till prices come down.

    • +3

      Not uncommon in most industries - essentially they are trying to recoup the development costs in the early days (which is understandable really).

  • +6

    Dealers are still screaming covid CHIP shortages so they have to jack up prices (thru CONTROLLED SUPPLY).
    Whilst other devices (ssd and ram etc) have oversupply of chips but have ~crashed their prices.

    There is zero genuine reason for car prices to be as high as they are.

    The dealers will continue to MILK you suckers for as long as you are suckers.

    • if i had to guess, chips used for cars are different from the chips used in computers? also they're still trying to clear the backlog accrued during Covid…

  • +7

    You won't

    You'll see the tech get better with more features and better cars, but the prices won't go down. There are a number of entry level EVs coming into the market that may be appealing, and that will continue, but the prices won't go down ever.

    • This is true.
      First it was early adopter fees, then high demand, then pandemic pricing, then low parts/chips, and now inflation.

      By the time we get over this phase, the government benefits will end, and after that we might have an oil-crisis, which will push BEV prices higher. So it's been only accessible to those in good financial standing (unless irresponsible).

      Only way we're going to see actual cheap and affordable BEV prices, is if we get decent and more options in the market from no-name Chinese Cars (not Porsche), fuel prices remain stable, and there's little excuse for prices hikes. That looks more like a 2030 maybe than anything else, whilst Tesla's been out since the early 2010.

      • +3

        TBH we're already seeing entry level ones that have relatively appealing prices (MG). I feel that Tesla made EVs sexy and everyone has caught up now. With all the options ranging from Volvo to Porsche, there's no reason to go Tesla unless you also spend $2k on an iphone for the logo….IMO

        • Agree, I feel like Tesla has paved the way and now the other established automotive manufacturers are playing the EV game and will absorb some of Tesla's market share.

        • +1

          I get what you're saying, but the market is a decade old and it's still immature.

          Also your analogy isn't apt, there are legitimate reasons to buy an iPhone over Android, they are separate ecosystems. It would've made more sense comparing something like the Samsung S20Fe or A52-S against the Samsung S22 Ultra. A (x5) difference between a AUD $300 phone to a $1500… but that's still easier to stomach than the difference in BEV cars (several hundred versus tens of thousands).

        • +2

          What about the Supercharger Network?

        • i don't think it's fair to say there's no reason to go for a Tesla. Tesla Model 3 @ 60,900 before on-roads. Sonata and Accord for example are only a few thousand dollars cheaper…

        • I wanted the Teslas initially for the autodrive feature but it seems we're still a ways away from it being totally implementable from start to finish

    • +1

      At some point inflation will outpace EV prices which means petrol and diesel cars will appear to be just as expensive as an EV. But you're right, EV prices themselves will not go down.

      • +1

        petrol and diesel cars will appear to be just as expensive as an EV

        Will?

        If you're in the 30% of people with solar on your roof, and your car is at home during the sunny parts of the day (work from home, stay at home mum, etc) you're already thousands a year better off in fuel costs.

        A 60k EV already beats a 45k petrol on cost for this chunk of the population. Better safety/tech/maintenance/acceleration are just icing on the cake.

        More solar going on roofs every day.

  • -6

    10 years! You can book mark this.

    Reason: the cost of ICEs will rise in price until they meet the price of EVs. EV prices will lower (due to better battery technology) until prices cross over

    There is a few problems:

    There isn't actually enough lithium to get everyone into an EV, so they will either need to find battery tech that uses less lithium or people accept an alternative. (People are going to throw up some examples but the point is either technology has to solve it or people will have to accept substitutes)

    If you think there is going to be a 65kwh battery (example) sitting there in a car that you are going to use 2hrs a day (maybe some more on the weekends) and it costs a lot to make only way to lower the price of the car is either you improve the price by a lot or people have to accept an alternative (smaller batteries?) I know why car makers don't want to make swappable batteries (if they are swappable then you have 3rd parties that can come in offering solutions like auto pilot a battery into your car the hour before you leave then take it away after you are done etc). People don't want to accept they pay a big price for a shell and you don't own the battery that is required to power the car.

    Problem with the car industry: interesting fact no car maker that was around in 1900 is still in business or haven't gone bankrupt.

    • +16

      interesting fact no car maker that was around in 1900 is still in business or haven't gone bankrupt.

      Here are 8 brands that existed before 1900 (Cadillac was 1901 to make 9)

      https://www.oldest.org/technology/car-companies/

      • +2

        lolz, got schooled

        • Yeah LOL

      • Problem with the car industry: interesting fact no car maker that was around in 1900 is still in business or haven't gone bankrupt.

        Cadillac was 1901

        Part of General Motors, On June 1, 2009 General Motors filed for bankruptcy in New York

        Could probably give you an explanation what bankruptcy means. Lots of brands go bankrupt then get bought by competitors who continue to use their name.

        GE can trace their roots back to Thomas Edison who invented the light globe. The brand still exists on light globes but it isn't manufactured by GE.

        • +1

          I can't tell you, you were the one who made the claim and for what point in relation to the discussion about EV prices.

          In what context did you make the comment? if we understand that then we can understand how important change of ownership/bankrupcy, but taken over, is relevent to the discussion.

          BTW I am just being curious, nothing more

          • +1

            @RockyRaccoon: People just pick up one point and run with it thinking it is the whole point. It is called attention deficit.

      • interesting fact no car maker that was around in 1900 is still in business or haven't gone bankrupt.

        Here are 8 brands that existed before 1900 (Cadillac was 1901 to make 9)

        "Brands" doesn't rule out bankruptcy. I would argue none of those "brands" exist as companies as they did in 1900.

        "Mercedes-Benz wasn’t officially founded until 1926." is not 1900.
        Tatra dont make cars anymore.
        Renault was bankrupt in the 1980s and bailed out by the French Government.
        Cadillac is just GM badge engineering. "In 1909, General Motors acquired Cadillac." GM 2009 something bankrupt.
        and Skoda are similarly cheaply warmed over VWs. "In 2000, it became a subsidiary of the Volkswagen Group."
        then there are the Stellantis ghost divisions from countless bankruptcies.

        • Correct.

          The nuances of business people don't get.

          They all laugh it is called Coca Cola because it contained cocaine at some point. They also forget it was originally cough syrup and a healthy drink. Just the brand value exists, not even the same thing.

    • interesting fact : Australia was around in 1900

      • +2

        The continent, not the country. The country took another day, 1/1/1901.

  • So When Will We See EV Prices Actually Go down?

    LOL Tesla have lowered prices…

    The average new car price in Australia is $50k…. EVs can be had for $50k or less brand new.

    • -3

      Tesla is one company, and they're a bit of a shitshow, you're paying more for a brand as opposed to functionality.

      In general EVs have only been stable or going up. Byd atto 3 price keeps rising for example, and most cars below 50k compromise on something (e. g., being low range).

      • So many factors inc AUD, which influence prices.

        AUD Up/Down. Probably better to look at OS trends to get better indication (Although not always)

      • +7

        Tesla is one company, and they're a bit of a shitshow, you're paying more for a brand as opposed to functionality.

        YMMV But Tesla is already one of the cheapest EVs for what you get compared to others. They also have dropped prices at times compared to others that only ever go up, so bit funny to claim you're paying for a 'brand'.

        The Ford Mach-e costs way more than a Model Y and offers very little 'extra' for this cost.

        and most cars below 50k compromise on something (e. g., being low range).

        The point is, the average person is spending $50k on a ICE cars today, so dropping $66k on a Model 3 isn't really that 'much' like everyone thinks it is. Range is just under 500ks, so not really comprising anything in that space.

    • -3

      LOL Tesla have lowered prices…

      If i sell something for $1k then sell it for $5k then sell it for $4k, I've "technically" dropped the prices….

      • Slowing demand and losing market share a good reason to drop prices in the States: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-drops-price-model-y-suv-u… And U coffee are the first person I know that think tech appreciates . Wake up Dude and smell the roses.

        • +2

          Slowing demand

          The USA is in recession, all new car sales have slowed. Tesla adjusted pricing to keep output growing. They sold more cars last quarter than ever before. while others are seeing declines. Oh and they still make profit on the car, unlike the others, cough Ford wrote down $50k USD on each EV sold last quarter.

          Wake up Dude and smell the roses.

          One growing sales still, making money, others flat or declining. LOL yes wake up indeed and smell the roses.

        • And U coffee are the first person I know that think tech appreciates

          While ‘tech gets cheaper’ applies to TVs and phones it’s less relevant for a car. A car has significantly more materials invested in the shell and drivetrain compared to a phone that is all electronics and a small case. The drivetrain isn’t really that much tech, sure motors are developing and batteries are improving but the majority of a car involves tech that’s new iterations of stuff that is 50years old. The windows, seats, suspension, wheels brakes haven’t significantly changed in decades plus you can largely use the same stuff form ICE cars. Even all the ‘high tech’ stuff like touchscreens, autonomous braking etc in EVs is just an update on stuff in ICE vehicles.

          The new tech in EVs is purely batteries and this is the single biggest expense in building an EV.

          • +2

            @Euphemistic: Cars do get cheaper…

            Depends on which time series you take here

            Don't shoot the messenger

            • @netjock: Except that like other things, the price of cars keeps going up by them adding extra features. Not many people are keen to stump up dough on a new cheaper car unless it’s ‘better’ than the old one.

              Unfortunately, for early EVs it’s easy to keep prices higher by adding more battery range. Especially when range anxiety is a real thing for many.

              Interestingly, I spoke to an EV owner recently and they said they much prefer to stop regularly and do a quick top up charge when travelling. Makes the stops 10-15min instead of letting the battery get way down and having to stop for 45-60min. Of course, that relies on having a charge network where that quick charge will get you to the next one, and not have a massive distance between chargers. But that’s improving all the time. Just goes to show that massive range may not be as necessary as some believe.

      • +1

        If i sell something for $1k then sell it for $5k then sell it for $4k, I've "technically" dropped the prices….

        Compared to everyone else who sells for $1k, then $5k, then $6k then $7k…….

        The point was, they have DROPPED prices, the others are not. Tesla is fluid with pricing, it goes up it goes down, the others only ever go up.

    • +1

      The average new car price in Australia is $50k

      Average. $35k Corolla and a $65k BMW average $50k (with many choices in the spectrum). If you need a car and can only afford $25k for a Yaris have fun waiting for a second hand Tesla.

      • +2

        average $50k (with many choices in the spectrum)

        Yeah, that is how averages work…. Not everyone is buying that $20k Kia nor that $500k sports car.

        But the average punter spends around $50k, go have a look at the Toyota lineup, cough cough RAV4 for example. Base RAV4 is $42k, topping out over $62k. So smack bang in the 'average' range.

        If you need a car and can only afford $25k for a Yaris have fun waiting for a second hand Tesla.

        Yawn…. Same as waiting around for a second hand BMW of the same age. It is what it is.

        • I just don't think you actually understand your own math. Neither do you understand economics. But if everyone understood finance then banks will go out of business.

          • +1

            @netjock:

            just don't think you actually understand your own math.

            LOL, everyone still driving around in those sub $20k Kias hey?

            Neither do you understand economics

            LOL whatever makes you feel better, but I understand that just because I can't afford it, doesn't mean it isn't happening.

            If you want to think everyone is buying a sub $25k car, then you better not look out on the road and see what people are really driving, as I said the CHEAPEST RAV4 is $42k….. Not far off the 'average' claim.,

            Expanding the field, the cheapest Camry is $37k, the cheapest Corolla is $33k. Heck, even the cheapest Yaris is $29k! Basically the bread and butter fleet from Toyota are far from your $25k claims.

            • @JimmyF:

              If you want to think everyone is buying a sub $25k car, then you better not look out on the road and see what people are really driving,

              Good point. The average age of vehicles on our roads is something like 10 years. This leads to the thought that maybe the average person does buy a sub $25k car. It’s just skewed a lot by new car sales where you don’t get a lot for $25k

              • +1

                @Euphemistic:

                This leads to the thought that maybe the average person does buy a sub $25k car. It’s just skewed a lot by new car sales where you don’t get a lot for $25k

                We're not talking 2nd hand sales, we are talking new car sales as the OP post….. So the data isn't 'skewed'.

            • @JimmyF: your numbers are inflated. cheapest Yaris is actually 23k before on-roads. It will probably be 26k drive away.

              Also he's claiming $25k Yaris, not claiming the average price of a Toyota.

              • +1

                @dukeGR4:

                your numbers are inflated. cheapest Yaris is actually 23k before on-roads. It will probably be 26k drive away.

                Last time I looked you can't buy a NEW car without the on road costs………. YMMV

                Maybe have a look for yourself before tossing figures around, as the cheapest Yaris is $28,607 drive away for my state going by the Toyotas website

                https://www.toyota.com.au/yaris

                Also he's claiming $25k Yaris, not claiming the average price of a Toyota.

                His claiming most people pay $25k for a new car and the $50k average is 'inflated'. Toyotas make up a big chuck of the top 10 models sold in Australia, so they are a pretty good 'guide' for what the 'average' person is buying aka paying. Hence why I use the Rav4 as it is the 3rd most sold model and the first model that is used by the average person to cart kids around etc that isn't a ute. They start at $42k to well over $60k.

                • @JimmyF:

                  Last time I looked you can't buy a NEW car without the on road costs………. YMMV

                  Funny you mentioned that, I didn't pay on-road costs for my GR Yaris lol, Toyota paid it for me. They had to do some creative accounting as well to come up with arbitrary numbers in the receipt. Tried to work backwards but the numbers don't reconcile.

                  But yea, 28k for a Yaris is ridiculous. The Corolla was actually 25-26k DRIVEAWAY for the Manual one in late 2020… 28-29k for the Auto one. I remember mentioning to my friends how the Corolla was only 2-3k dearer and why would anyone buy a Yaris. If i had to guess they jacked up the price for the Yaris and jacked up the price for the Corolla even more. some market positioning bullcrap

                  • @dukeGR4:

                    But yea, 28k for a Yaris is ridiculous. The Corolla was actually 25-26k DRIVEAWAY

                    I don't disagree it isn't ridiculous for a Yaris, I'm just quoting what the prices are. I don't set the prices.

                    Lots of people haven't been following along to the new car prices, so are a bit 'shocked' like you when they find out a yaris is $28k!

                    So it is easy to see why the new car average is around $50k these days.

        • JimmyF

          Your thoughts are interesting, but they are your thoughts based on you understanding of things.

          Canstar does disagree with your $50K average.

          Its "averaged"

          Aussies spend an average of $40,916 on new cars, according to Canstar Blue’s latest survey of new car owners. The average amount spent on small cars is only $26,346, while new sedans bring an average spend $45,728 and SUVs $40,453.

          Sorta inbetween you and Netjock.

          • @RockyRaccoon:

            Canstar does disagree with your $50K average.

            The best part about stats, is someone will always agree with you :)

            https://www.drive.com.au/news/new-car-transaction-prices-hit…

            In the past five years, the national average transaction price for new motor vehicles rose from $39,790, to $50,161

            But looking back 5 years ago, the 'average' was $40k going by them. So $50k isn't really surprising today considering everything.

            • @JimmyF: 3 of the last 5 years weren't quite normal years are they.

              Second hand car at new car prices. Etc. Shipping rates that are usually $1k went to $8k but now a shipping recession (shipping is probably losing money). You never thought they'd pay US$40 to take a barrel of oil off the hands of the producers (at the start of the pandemic) or run out of toilet paper. To pretend new car prices will stay high (just like 2nd hand value of Teslas to basically retain their value after 3 years) is just pretend math.

              You just find a narrative that fits the argument and pretend everything else doesn't exist.

              • @netjock:

                3 of the last 5 years weren't quite normal years are they.

                and? It still doesn't change the fact that the average person TODAY is spending around $50k on a car does it?

                But sure, lets go back 5 years and the average was still $40k, factor in inflation over the last 5 years and $50k still seems reasonable.

                To pretend new car prices will stay high (just like 2nd hand value of Teslas to basically retain their value after 3 years) is just pretend math.

                Again, what pretend math? I've made no such claims. So again what does any of that have to do with the average cost of a NEW car today? The prices today are the prices today. No one is talking about 2nd hand prices in the future or claiming anything more……other than you.

                You just find a narrative that fits the argument and pretend everything else doesn't exist.

                What narrative? I'm stating facts as reported by drive.com.au, you on the other hand seem to want to push some narrative that I'm over inflating the price of new cars. It is what it is.

                As I've said, the 3rd most popular car sold last year, with the first two being the hilux and Ranger was the RAV4 which starts at $42k, going to well over $60k+. Sounds like it fits right in with what the 'average' person is spending on a new car. The 6th car was the Corolla, which also starts at $33k, and of course top of the list, selling the most was the Hilux which can be anything from low $30ks to $80k.

                These are the top sellers, so you know, what the 'average' person is buying and paying! Sure you might not be able to afford that much, but that doesn't change what is happening out there for new car sales.

                • @JimmyF: I turned off after the first sentence and the you said “fact”

                  It is like you just find your own facts and other people’s facts are FUD

                  It is not the first time you come out like you just drank the cool aid.

                  I’ll put it down to not talking about OzBusiness on OzBargain because obviously the wrong segment because it is like trying to hold back the crowds during the great toilet paper stampede of 2020. No reason, no logic.

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