I’ve seen it so much on here. Every other car seems to have its issues but doesn’t get anywhere near as piled on.
Not trying to defend them, just genuinely want to know.
Oh, and please don’t use the “mAdE iN cHiNa” argument
Why The HAVAL Hate?
L63pinecone on 30/10/2021 - 18:33
Comments
What about Xiaomi, Blitzwolf, Baseus, Huawei, Oppo, Hisense, One Plus, Lenovo, ZTE. That's just a few I can think of the top of my head ATM.
I've never driven any of those.
What about Volvo then?
@resubaehtgnolhcs: It's gotten just as much hate as well. Apparently any global brands made in China are all bad because 'Chinese quality is poor'.
Some don't even realise that not all Volvo cars are manufactured in China, they have several plants across the globe.
The hate on Chinese is real.
@Daz91: Care to elaborate who's 'they'? Volvo or China? Because certain models are manufactured in China and therefore the brand is poor?
There's also a massive difference between Made in China and Made by China.
@Daz91: Well. If you don't understand what @Elin2946 said, I'll repeat it: the hate on Chinese is real.
@[Deactivated]: Remember that many Chinese prefer imported cars, just like we do.
In China, the local brands are the cheapest, followed by VW and then the others. And there are lots of foreign cars in China, despite the recent 'encouragements' to 'prefer' local.
We used to make 'alright' cars in Oz, despite all odds, in factories GM, Ford and Co. ran into the ground. We didn't prefer them though, either.
Plenty do change preference though. Once they went for cheap Japanese cars, then Korean ones. Now Chinese, as they become numerous. Many in these markets are 'courageous' and embrace such appliances.
Even in Germany, many buy cars built elsewhere.
But a car is a complicated purchase to most consumers. Many spend more time agonising over one than they did over the house they live in. It's a strange equation.
That said, simple logic tells you to buy a well designed, well built, properly quality assured, and well serviced car. One made by experts that have a track record in safety, reliability and engineering.
In Oz, that means we stay well clear of the new entrants until they've demonstrated they can provide warranty and service for many years given we keep our cars longer than most countries.
Besides, if you know about cars, QA and such things, you tend to stick to the established brands regardless. You would have a lot of trouble convincing me to buy a an American made car, similarly a Chinese one. That sums it up AFAIC.
@Daz91: They manufacture good and poor quality. The quality is up to the person who gives the directions/pays them to manufacture.
If you pay them a cheap price for rubbish, you get rubbish. An iPhone is $1599. Kmart shit is $2.
There’s a reason for the price difference.
A Chinese plumber would love to do a good job if paid Aussie plumber rates.
@CalmLemons: In laws bought some buckets from China when they came over. I could throw those around and would still be ok. The ones I got locally from coles would break within weeks, and likely to have come from China as well.
Think China keep some of the top notch products for themselves and give us the crap.
The hate on Chinese is real.
That is factual … however more and more smart buyers are ignoring "hate" and learning to evaluate and decide what is what. Savings are astronomical.
Yes it might be inferior.
But also the paying price is a hell of a lot inferior. Lower!. Cheaper!Don't hate, evaluate and decide what is good for you and what is not.
E V A L U A T E. Then is YOUR decision, not someone else.
@THL: The hate is real because "Chinese quality is poor" is real, especially when it comes to vehicles. I worked in a car dealership that sold and serviced various Chinese brands amongst Japanese, European and American brands. The Chinese built vehicles were horrendous with nonstop issues. So much so that the dealer ended up cancelling all the various Chinese brands that they dealt with and refusing to service or work on any ever again. Anyone with experience working in Chinese manufacturing and production knows the dreaded Chinese term, "Cha Bu Duo", meaning close enough or good enough.
@subywagon: I completely agree that generally speaking, Chinese brands & products are of inferior quality.
However, global brands that set up in China has their own quality standards which I believe makes a big difference. Just because brands manufactures some of their products in China, that doesn’t mean they all have poor quality products. I.e Apple or Volvo.
This reflects my previous comment, “the hate on Chinese is real” because as soon as any brands are associated with China, it’s impacted negatively.
Username doesn't check out!
@Wystri Warrick: the problem is people stick their identity behind what they drive
what kind of person drives a Wildtrack Ranger or any decked out ute
what about a turbo Japanese car like a Supra?
what about the old ford vs holden thing?
and then too many people will get upset for other folks about 'idenitying with a chinese brand'
the realisation should be that China sells cars to mainly developing world countries and BRICs
they sell to russia south africa and they have a billion people demand in their own country
the thoughts of a potential one million car market here is really pitiful
gwm make a decent car now
but not long ago they made the Steed ute and other nonsense
@tonyjzx: The Chinese car market is TWICE the size of the next biggest one (the US). Not only that, it is the most competitive one in the world too, with a bewildering choice of brands.
This is the reason why Chinese cars have climbed the quality ladder far more quickly than Japanese or Korean ones ever did. People who think Chinese cars must be junk are living in the past.
Chinese vehicle quality, ie built down to a price.
TBH I don’t care, I won’t be buying one. Although I said that about Hyundai when they first arrived and I’d happily have a Hyundai now, Chinese brands need to prove themselves for a while longer yet lest they disappear like Chery.
I believe every manufacturer now is ‘built down to a price’. It just depends what that price is. But nothing is made like they used to.
@ATangk: " But nothing is made like they used to."
I'll admit I was thinking that in the 70s and 80s as flimsy little buzz-boxes began crowding out the Vauxhalls, BMCs and Hillmans - the same little boxes now rattling past the wreckers yards where the latter all began to fade away during the nineties…
@terrys: "in the 70s and 80s as flimsy little buzz-boxes began crowding out the Vauxhalls, BMCs and Hillmans"
Gee old buggers (yes, I'm one too) have selective memories. The biggest reason "flimsy little buzz boxes" replaced those cars is that those cars, <i>especially</i> pommy ones, were complete crap!
Ask yourself - when was the last time you saw a late model car by the roadside with its bonnet up? When young I saw a lot of such cars - and they were never Japanese buzzboxes.
And I don't see a lot of broken down Chinese ones these days either; their quality has improved very quickly in the last decade or so. There's a reason for that - a massive and (most importantly) extremely competitive home market, which the Japanese and Koreans never had when they started exporting.
I believe every manufacturer now is ‘built down to a price’. It just depends what that price is.
Yes, even euro luxury cars are built down to a price, even built in countries where labour is cheap. But when you are targeting the cheapest end of the market, there isn’t much wriggle room in the price to add extra quality.
@ATangk: "But nothing is made like they used to."
Thank goodness for that, cars in the past were generally slow, unreliable, high maintenance, rust prone, emitted horrible exhaust fumes, handled poorly, had rubbish brakes, would kill you in a crash and only lasted about half the mileage of modern cars.
Average vehicle fleet age in the US from the 70's till 2017:
https://wolfstreet.com/2018/08/21/average-age-of-cars-trucks…
Up from 7 years to 12 years.
@ATangk: Are you being deliberately obtuse? The obvious implication is that the price they are build down to is too low and that reliability, performance, durability are excessively compromised.
The first Hyundais did suck tho.
I never want to have anything as 'built to a price' as a Daewoo again, even if they have reached out to whoever now owns Dinky and Matchbox for advice on lifting the standards.
@terrys: every car is 'built to a price'
its the first thing ignorant people say
toyota when then built the Lexus LS400 budgeted a billion for the engine.
The VE commodore was built for a billion with a carryover motor and gearbox
even a exotics are 'built to a price'… they're not running an unlimited budget fam
@tonyjzx: The LS400 was Lexus' entry into the American market, designed in California. To compete with German cars, it had to be significantly better.
The VE Commodore was a completely new platform. Platforms are very expensive; that's why they're shared across multiple cars instead of one, two if you count the Statesman/Caprice. If you can find a copy of the book about the VE Commodore it makes a great read.
Bugatti Veyron was sold at a loss of somewhere between $3-6 million per vehicle.
I'm not sure what is so ignorant about saying every car "is built to a price". It's obviously true.
i checked out the MG hybrid in the mall, the perceived build quality is well above that of Japanese. The knobs, buttons, levers had a satisfying weight. Material choice is good for dashboard and door card is good, like that of a Mercedes C-Class.
Aren’t iPhones made in China
Good point
@Wystri Warrick: It’s not really a good point iPhone being made in China. China makes good stuff, but it costs. They also make plenty of cheap rubbish. Current Chinese cars are priced to enter the market, somewhere quality has to give.
@Euphemistic: I think it is a good point. Apple is a quality brand. Apples makes its products in China. One of the arguments is "it's made in China so it's poor quality". Quality products are made in China, both by foreign companies, and by Chinese companies.
I know there's a lot of shit stuff made in China and I haven't argued against that. What I've argued is the "made in China means poor quality" argument isn't true.
@Wystri Warrick: I don't think its a good point. Can't really follow the logic of 'if iPhones are good, and iPhones are made in China, then everything made in China is good'.
Foxconn don't make MG's, Havals or LDV's.
@Dogsrule: Reread my comment again.
'if iPhones are good, and iPhones are made in China, then everything made in China is good'.
I said one of the arguments in here is it's "made in China" so must be poor quality.
Here's what I said:
One of the arguments is "it's made in China so it's poor quality". Quality products are made in China, both by foreign companies, and by Chinese companies.
I also said:
I know there's a lot of shit stuff made in China and I haven't argued against that. What I've argued is the "made in China means poor quality" argument isn't true.
Made in china is not the same as made by china.
@mychips: So many Aussies don't like China because they don't like the reflection that they're seeing.
Cheap people buying cheap stuff, ends up with exactly what they paid for.It's remarkable that someone realise DJI is made by China in a positive sense in this current anti China environment.
@mychips: A broken clock is correct twice a day.
I had a dji Ronin m, it was a pos, and their batteries suck.
Telsa Model 3 is too
@BargainMe: and the chinese one is better quality fit and finish than the US one (or at least is better than the previous US one, not sure if they sorted out their act)
Built to a Californian design and spec.
When these devices crash compared with a car, in a “mAdE iN cHiNa” branded car, your chances a serious injury or not surviving are greatly increased. In another 5-10 years time, maybe it’ll be better.
Their new cars that were released this year? They haven't been tested for ancap safety rating yet, but Haval is confident of a5 star ANCAP safety rating
I just Googled "Haval H9 ancap safety rating", scrolled down and the 2015 model was among the top results and it's ANCAP safety rating is 4 stars, and the H2 2017 model has a 5 star ANCAP safety rating.
Really not sure what you're talking about?
@MrFrugalSpend: Looks like you didn't read my comment….. The 2015 model was rated 4 stars. The 2017 model is 5 stars, and the 2021 model looks to be 5 stars.
Also you said:
every single new car worth buying is 5 stars - 4 stars is not a good result
Why are you talking about new cars when you cherry picked the oldest car listed that has a 4 star ANCAP safety rating? If as you said new you would be looking at the 2021 model which looks like it's going to be a 5 star ANCAP safety rating lol
@MrFrugalSpend: You should check out https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/australias-best-sellin… A lot of popular cars are not tested.
Chinese cars are not the bottom, American Cars are often some of the most unsafe.
used car is fine. I paid about 30% RRP for my 5 year old car.
used phone is shit. the tech is out of date so fast and battery has designed obsolescence.
I'm not paying new Apple prices for a phone though.
so Xiaomi phone will do.also I don't put my life in danger using a shit phone. shit car on the other hand….
Apple iPhone
amount of manufacturing and engineering prowess needed to competently make a car is leaps and bound above a consumer electronics. If you've done any amount of engineering study you'd know. All the difficult parts to make a phone, such as the screen and chip is done by other companies anyway. Car manufacturers do outsource but for the most part develop their own platforms, engine and interiors.
I'm not dissing chinese cars since many millions buy them but chinese success in the consumer electronic space does nothing to suggest that theyre competent at making cars yet.
Those brands are building products that China has been building for other brands for years and years; the manufacturing infrastructure is already in place. With cars they can only try and copy someone else's finished product. They need a few more years before they can get to the where, say, Hyundai was with the Excel.
Thinkpad Quality has gone to the dogs after Lenovo purchased from IBM
Terrible example, your comparing consumer electronics companies (mostly phones/computers) to automotive manufacturing.
automotive manufacturing is brought to a very different standard to that of consumer electronics.
a perfect example is, look at all the safety standards your car is meant to meet, vs the standards of your phone.
Your car is also meant to last alot longer than your phone. I'd love to see a phone last (and stay relevant) after 10 years, compared to that of a car.
Hey, leave Foton out of this!
Just like Toyota, Hyundai, Subaru, & Kia before them. We just love to hate on emerging brands.
As The Clash sang in 1980;
"Gimme Honda, Gimme Sony
So cheap and real phony"
- The Magnificent SevenTimes change. First we hated on the Japanese, then the Koreans, now the Chinese.
Not specific to Haval but in regard to Chinese quality.
Its about the ongoing Quality Assurance/Control that is exerted, with Chinese manufacturer theres a big risk of the supplier or factory swapping in cheaper parts and the like so a company that is vigilant and tests their products has a lot less problems than one that doesnt.
So you can have car manufacturers from same country having markedly different reliabilty and quality depending on the above.
Generally speaking most minor small parts like rubber metal, and other primary stuff etc. all will come from China regardless of manufacturer (in most cases) including bigger brands. But yea ultimately its the R&D, and design thinking and feedback taking what matters most
A friend got a new mg … cannot find seat covers anywhere that fit. Aftermarket parts are nonexistent. Someone ran into the bumper and apparently it’s a few months wait for parts to be sent over from China. So yeah. Definitely has some negatives.
seat covers lol
Lack of bumpers is a concern, although this is no different to low volume Peugeots and Citroens.
lack of adequate distribution network which kind of help with parts, spares and knowledge of what we're looking at, euro cars have the same issue (maybe slightly lesser because the brands have been around forever)
in most cases i dont think its a chinese hate thing (of course there are idiots everywhere)
Jeep or Haval? 🤔
Sounds like a dinner menu, Italian or Chinese lol.
what a suicidal choice that is….
neither……
Jeep. Lockers, upgraded axles etc, re-gear it, ultra capable off road when it’s running.
Alternatively, you could buy a Kathmandu jacket and hang around a dirt carpark with an overpriced coffee and pretend that you’re more extreme than everyone else because you’re in a Wrangler with a 2 inch lift that you paid someone else to install for you…
Jeep = Just Empty Every Pocket
Personally I would choose neither. But at least with a Haval you probably won't spend most of the time on the side of a road waiting for NRMA/RACQ etc.
Shouldn’t that comment be in the scariest horrors thread?
I'm not a car person but from what I know about Haval their cars aren't "the most reliable", however they certainly "aren't the most unreliable". I also hear that the Holden Commodore is a unreliable shit box, and so are Jeep's….. My guess is like the Holden Commodore and Jeep being shit boxes it's personal bias. Some people are as patriotic about cars as they are about their nation, or even more….
Commodores were always fairly good. If you ever did get a dud then parts were always super cheap and available. Jeep has huge issues with parts as their stock is terrible and they often don't sell individual components but make you buy the whole assembly instead.
from what I know
How do you know?
From reading online, including OzBargain, and someone I know who owns a Haval (no he's not a Chinese national, or even Asian, he's a caucasian Australian - just thought I'd add that in there for anyone who reads this and wonders)
You wouldn't find any Asians driving these cheap MIC vehicles in Australia.
They all drive Benz BMW or Audi coz of their reliability and to show their class.
@lovepub: It's mostly about class. If reliability was their main concern they'd be driving a Japanese car.
@lovepub: I thought people owned those cars because they're a great way to invest your money? Or at least that's what I understand to be the smart choice from reading OzB investment advice threads.
@schquid: Owned which cars? Haval or BBA cars.?
Haval like others said, no resale value. BBA cars probably high maintenance and not a good way to invest in these cars.
Unless u are saying buy a cheapo and use the rest of money to buy crypto. Maybe that's smarter.
Frequency bias.
You only notice because you're looking for it.
Every brand gets roasted for one reason or another.
Borolla, Alpha Lamero, BMWeiner.
Going off the legacy of other crappy Chinese cars. The Chinese can make good stuff at times, especially when someone else is making sure quality control is good, but when left to their own devices, cut corners and generally churn out crap.
Especially if a product that can greatly affect human safety.
Food, medicine, medical equipment, safety gear, cars, aircrafts, etc… the $1 phone case doesn’t matter as much.
Yeah, it's more so a cultural thing than a technological thing.
Case in point: Japan. Were lagging in the tech-side for decades, but have a long culture that's heavy on workmanship and quality. Didn't take them too long to catch up with Western nations, despite heavy losses since WW2.
escalators and elevators are really dangerous there. also glass bridges.
mAdE iN cHiNa
Oh, and please don’t use the “mAdE iN cHiNa” argument
What's wrong with made in china argument?
There are many good and high quality made in china products, but there are just a lot more crappy products.
My local dealership agency gives them out as loan cars. They have several unregistered just sitting in their yard.
My car (not a Haval) was being serviced recently and the salesperson actually apologised to me for having to give me a Haval as a loaner.
And we know what happens when you hit a fox with one.
Not too sure, but my guess would be that the fox runs off happily and the engine blows up.
They are using them as loan cars because the big boss thinks they will get a few easy sales as they are upto $60k cheaper than comparable Toyotas. Then they make bank on your trade in.
Your sales person sucks at their job.
Your brand's local sales manager sucks too as they should be sending you out in your brand and up selling you that, so they make more money.
In the dealership I worked in they only gave the good loan cars out to the customers they believed were likely to be a possible purchaser. It was heavily monitored and we'd get into trouble for giving out good loan cars to "lower tier" customers. Some customers were even charged for loan cars depending on how likely they were considered to be a possible purchaser or not.
Your sales person sucks at their job.
I prefer an honest (if they exist) salesperson to someone who tries to sell me something I don't need or want.
I didn't even purchase my current car, or the last new car from where I get them serviced as I got much better deals elsewhere, and the dealership is well aware of this.
I am definitely not in the market for a new car as this one is only 18 months old and there's nothing wrong with it and when it's time to update, as usual, I'll be passing my car onto a family member, not trading it in and getting ripped off by a stealership.
Dealerships are a business. Most finance their stock. With a trade in, most would need about $6k in a deal for operating costs (mostly staff, tax and finance).
If you think you have a problem with dealerships, you actually have a problem with the manufacturer, because they are the company who design the sales process and control much of the business model.
The only way for a dealership to have independence of a manufacturer is if the manufacturer offers a non bonus sales model. But then that dealership is noncompetitive with 90% of other dealerships as they receive very little manufacturer incentives.
And if you are going to be rational and hate manufacturers and refuse to support directly them for being dodgy, then you really should refuse to buy petrol, as most fuel companies franchisee out petrol station manager roles and charge the sucker around $100k per year, while forcing the franchisee to only buy though their supplier, pay them rent, royalties and require excessive staffing, meaning the only way a petrol franchise can operate at a profit is if they steal from employees and the government.
This dodginess is the same for most franchised companies except (usually) Macca's.
CHiNeSe QuaLiTy! That’s the argument. The only argument. You’ll likely notice MG, LDV getting piled on almost as much.