I’ve seen it so much on here. Every other car seems to have its issues but doesn’t get anywhere near as piled on.
Not trying to defend them, just genuinely want to know.
Oh, and please don’t use the “mAdE iN cHiNa” argument
Why The HAVAL Hate?
L63pinecone on 30/10/2021 - 18:33
Comments
Unless you live like a hermit. There is no absolute way you can avoid chinese made, produced, assembled, manufactured product.
Why support growing China’s young car export industry especially when China wants to hurt Australia’s iron ore exports and tax revenue in order to grow it?
Germany, USA, Thailand, South Korea, America India etc. never started a trade war with Australia to try and push our export prices down and then at the same time sold us cheap cars built with those required minerals from Australia.
Perhaps you can tell us who fired the first shot?
True in part but there are a lot of other asian countrys making products we can get items from as well. We also do make more products than you think but if we are going to buy overseas items we should spread our import consumption to a range of countries rather than one.
What's the alternative?
Australia sold us out.
We manufacture crap all in this country country and have sold off energy, communication etc.
I'm almost certain you typed this comment on a Chinese made device or a device that most parts are made in China.
Neg me if I'm wrong…
But was it built for a Chinese company or not…
I wont neg you, but you are potentially wrong. Apple iphones have "assembled in China" on them for a reason: about 4.6% of the components by value of an iphone are Chinese manufactured. The amount of money per iphone which flows to China is tiny as well. Link discussing country of origin below, for financial flows, there was research on it years ago looking at where the money actually ends up -mainly the US (or Ireland if you buy in Australia)..
p.s. written on my Sony Xperia 5 ii, made in Thailand
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Technology/iPhone-12-teardo…
Such a lame argument this one. What's your point?
The point was made three years ago.
Just as true today as it was then, so why stick your neck out on a necropost like this?
Capitalism's obsession with buying/making something for the lowest price has built up a country with a terrible track record for human rights, especially against ethnic minorities. A country which is intent on bullying countries like Australia economically. Right in the midst of their boycotts of our exports, we're buying their exports in record amounts. We should be supporting our friends, not the bully. The Japanese, Korean, and to a lesser extent, European, cars are not that much more expensive. Yes, the Chinese brands may have more bells and whistles but how long will those last?
I hope Emperor Xi tones down his policies and rhetoric for the sake of the whole world.
HAVAL:
Cryptographic function that pre-dates the 2013 car brand.Anagram of Halva. Who claims to like that?
This is an example of the effectiveness of govt propaganda. Their Quad Squad of HATE, instills in the feeble minded the notion that in order to survive within the clan structure, one better conform, and HATE who they HATE.
Since the clan HATES the dark, never venture out from the security that the central fire offers. Your survival depended on a collective effort of HATE.
I remember the Hyundai's first hit the market, the hate was real, I know - because I was one of them. You still see some of those Excels still chugging around.
The new GWM (Haval) Cannon is quality. Drive one then try and tell me a Ranger is worth spending an additional 20-30k
I have a friend that has just recently purchased one and loves it! Luxury car with the cost of a mid-level 'known popular' branded cars
I have yet to witness a chinese in australia driving a haval. Same with indians and mahindras.
It says a lot about the quality of these vehicles when even their own countrymen avoid them.
Go up north and you’ll see Indian people driving pikups.
NT?
North Queensland. No idea if they were private vehicles or supplied vehicles though as they were just a few photos and videos of a mate, his various colleagues and the vehicles they had when he was working on stations and charter boats a few years ago.
Well.. now you know someone on Ozbargain ;)
A good product is a good product. If Mahindras are good (not yet), I'd buy that too.
The H6 as is, is a very competent product. If they optimise their software they'd become a viable VW alternative.
they are new to the australian market, no track record on safety/reliability mixed with a healthy dose of china bashing which is flavour of the month
they're not the worst in terms of reliability and value for the price (looking at you, jeep and french cars), and let's face it it is the only thing they can compete on as a new entrant to the market - no one is going to drop $70k on a chinese car. it's the same strategy when hyundai/kia and the korean cars made their start in australia. cheap with long warranty until they get brand recognition. it's not rocket science
I think as a general rule Chinese made cars arent exactly 'popular' anywhere around the world - including china
Do you mean "desirable"?
Personally i got nothing against Haval, MG, GWM etc people buy them i dont see brands like Jeep or Range Rover being any more reliable and they are far more expensive.
People buy the car they can 'afford' although i think ill stick with Japanese and Korean Cars
Lot of MG haters live in OZB.
My previous cars were Toyota and Suzuki. Next car would be MG EV upgraded model.
Have a few friends who bought MG and they are super happy. A few among them bought as a second car with their primary one being BMW and Lexus.
for EV i'd wait for a BYD over MG - they are the best selling and largest EV makers in china, have entered europe and they are the market leaders in battery technology (see blade batteries and tesla)
Chinese MGs are probably better built than English MGs ever were…
I agree. British motoring was great at design, small production, one offs and modifications but the way Asia does 'mass production' is far better than in the Uk.
Base your designers in Britain, mass manufacturing is just done better elsewhere.
I am on my second MG. No issues.
You guys do understand that regardless of where the product is manufactured it is the quality control and who designs that quality control that matters? Yeah European brands are making things in China but they still have European engineers specifying the quality controls standards and the testing that needs to be done and let's not forget where the actual product is designed / engineered in the first place. This is the argument here. No one cares if China made 100% of the products in the world, to what standards are they being tested against?
You'll all be driving Chinese cars after the war.
I doubt it, then they'd be reeeaaallly hard to get parts for.
countries dont go to war with nations where they own half the place anyway….
I used to be a hater as well.
I wanted to get a small SUV under 30k, and based on reviews and brand familiarity I decided on Kia Seltos. After calling a few dealerships I was told a wait time for a base model is 9 months or 6 months for more expensive trim. That forced me to explore alternatives. Sadly, other manufactures had long wait times as well or were too expensive for me. MG and Haval looked really good on paper (a lot better than Kia Seltos in the base model), a lot of value for a good price, but I was against them for the same reasons a lot of you are - reliability and resale.
Nonetheless, I gave myself the benefit of the doubt, so I decided to join Facebook groups for all small SUVs under 30k that I was considering including MG and Haval.
That was eye-opening, because majority of people were very happy with their purchase, and if they had issues they were resolved in a timely manner. There were people who bought their Havals in 2014, and they are still running fine.
Yes, there were some exceptions who hated their purchase and had lemons, but these existed in other car makers groups as well.
The other eye-opening moment was to see other car brands are not that reliable as most people think. E.g. In the Kia Seltos group a lot of people complain about rust and their gearbox dying in the first year, and sometimes it takes a month to resolve.
I also bookmarked all used Havals on Carsales.com.au, so I got notified when they sold, and it made me realize. People buy them, and they don't lose that much value as everyone is portraying. Yes, they lose more value than Toyota, but they are also cheaper to buy new, so the absolute difference is comparable.
That made me realize they cannot be that bad, so I decided to test drive MG ZST and Haval Jolion, and I was positively shocked when I tried Jolion. It felt really good, interior felt very luxurious and well built. Test drive was good as well. It could be a bit better, but to be honest other cars in this price range are not that good as well, so in the end it is very comparable.
In the end, I liked Haval more than MG, because Jolion felt better built than ZST (it felt even better than Seltos), so I got myself Haval Jolion, and I am happy I did. If you consider its price, it is a very good car. There are some areas that need more refinement (you can read about in them reviews, they are correct), but it is not a deal breaker, and honestly other cars are not perfect either in this price range, and you get more for your money with Haval.
Another plus is that you are probably conversant in chinglish now from the infotainment screen and car manual. Would really help with all the other Chinese product manuals. Jovial also has a horrible engine, is underpowered and a gas guzzler. You could have put in a bit more and gotten a way better car. Wait for the rusting issues.
https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/new-cars/2021-ha…
I recently got a Zst, and I like it.
I had a ZS before, so pretty similar.
Were you not offended by the large ugly H A V A L signage across the rear of the car? Unless the dealer would agree to remove that, it would be a deal-breaker for me!
Maybe initially, but I got used to it, and I even like it now. Some people in the Facebook group removed the signage, so it is possible.
Another useless let’s bash China thread. Chinese car industry is growing on super fast pace.
People who think Chinese cars are crap, always forgot term Jap Crap when Japanese cars entered our market. Similar stuff was said about Korean cars in start.
I drove made in Australia Toyota Aurion for few years, loved it. But why we aren’t manufacturing cars in Australia?
That’s exact issue why every other product is made in China.
Not just Haval, all China brands
Only the gullible and epically stupid buy their wares
People really need to grow up
My husband had a customer who was talking about the Chinese vehicles. While he was talking specifically about the engines blowing up in the MG's, it applies to all Chinese vehicles currently.
The engines need to be treated like new engines has to be when i was a kid (60:s and 70's). You had to run it in for 1500 miles: so cool and calm driving - not flooring it - ever. After the 1500 service, you had to let the engine warm up before doing certain things
Like flooring it. At about 10000 the engine was considered run in.They Then started running in the engines in the factory, so the job was already done. Apparent the Chinese engines need to be run like this and then they are quite reliable. They aren't an engine that you can start up and then rev the engine and flatten the accelerator.
Alla a over is his opinion not mine. It makes sense though as when we first got Russian stuff Inoue industry, it was very basic old school technology but very solid/sturdy.
When the Chinese Communist party members stopped being driven around by Audi and Merc in Beijing and start to use HAVAL then you can stop your question. Also, your question can be rephrased to "Why the hate of Uyghurs in China?"
They are being driven in Hongqi (a Chinese car maker).
I saw an interesting documentary on youtube months ago. Forget what it was called but part of it mentioned that group and the other group the media keeps claiming are targeted for their organs. It showed how it's fiction these groups are more persecuted than others. i.e. The CCP are unbiased… they persecute anyone who is "different", equally. ;-p
mAdE iN cHiNa.
Bought mostly by Chinese nationalists who move to Australia for a better lifestyle but only buy Chinese as an act of support.
Poor build quality, rusting issues, poor engine build and performance all end up costing most than a BMW in the long run.
A poor bloke here hit a cat and had his haval written off as an example.You dont know what you talked about..
I saw view caucasian Australian who driving h6 around in my suburb.All chinese people driving merc audi bmw, lol..
When you turn have the radio on, and turn a Havel off, the radio keeps going. If it's on low and you don't notice - it kills the battery. Roadside assist callouts for companies running fleets of these (rentals), are through the roof.
My old holden astra did this
Plenty of modern cars do this. Have you driven many cars built after the mid-2000s?
Yes I work in the industry.
ive personally never seen that
when you turn the car off it should put the ICE to sleep
They haven't proved themselves yet.
In 5 years they will either be Hyundai, or Daewoo.
When the Hyundai Excel came out, it was crap. But every iteration of their cars since has improved and then some.
I own two i30's… terrific little cars. I would now rate Hyundai as better quality than a lot of other car makers at their price point.Daewoo (Lanos) was also crap when it first came out. And their cars remained crap as they were released, and now they are gone.
Great Wall (excuse me "GMC"! :)), and Haval are at those same early stages. Cheaply priced cars to break into the market, but nothing to show yet in terms of longevity.
They are rightly considered ricky/cheap/troublesome purchases… fine for electronic devices or cheap tools, not fine for a vehicle (much more expensive, and could actually kill you).
Exactly right. I think they will keep improving very quickly but they need time in the market to prove that they won't fall into heaps. I watched a John Cadogen video about the GWM that rusted out and the dealer/importer tried to avoid fixing it because it was driven in a seaside town. This will be the biggest issue… Will they face up to Australian conditions?
I dont think they can catch Hyundai. I'd say Hyundai is better than some cars at higher price points. Without hesitation I'd buy a I30 over a Golf.
I don't hate haval, in fact I was thinking they may be ready to be considered but they're still not trustworthy enough yet, might need another 5 years before I'd look into them again.
It's not the MaDe iN cHiNa part so much but the development is still not there and the wrong corners are being cut for such a large purchase.
I have Blitzwolf and xiaomi items because I determined the corners cut on them weren't too horrible for the price but still know my xiaomi mi 2 earbuds I got for $10 are not the same quality as buying airpods. Haval likes to claim the $22k cars are the same as buying $30k plus cars which they're no way near yet. And yes Jeep are just as bad and cost more and I'll tell people not buy them as well
My mechanic says his only issue with the new brands entering the market is how difficult it can be to get parts. There isn't enough market for a big after market selection, and neuine parts can take weeks to arrive. For example, he said he had a new MG waiting for a part for 2 months. He said usually there's not enough wrong with brands to label them bad, every brand has black sheep, but the parts issue is becoming a problem.
Every haval sold helps pay for the missiles that will be used against us
How about every other electronic device 🤪
How can they attack us when they (china) surrounded by 400 united states military base camp? Tell me how??
ICBM or their new hypersonic missile.
Oh, and please don’t use the “mAdE iN cHiNa” argument
Yeah the historical fact that the quality of products made in every low cost manufacturing nation over several decades have been cheap/nasty substandard/dangerous crap, has nothing to do with why people avoid them, lol. ;-p
When brands like Great Wall etc appeared each was absolute junk. So if this brand is relatively new (never heard of it) then it will be the same, because there's a saying in China: "If you can get away with cheating then cheat." That means every single person and company involved, from the factory worker who produces the raw plastics right through to the end of the production line are actively searching for ways to foist lowered quality they can onto the next person, preferably without being noticed, while maximising their own benefit/profit. That deeply ingrained mentality in their culture is why a car is the second last thing I'd buy from China, just before a Chinese kidney transplant.
Human life has little to no value in China. It may be a somewhat better in the car industry, but that "cheat if you can get away with it" mentality remains ingrained in its people, much like Pavlov's dog salivating when the bell gets rung (possible dollar signs appear). So human beings keep falling by default reflex to the bottom of their list of priorities (until something goes wrong that causes them to "lose face" - THEN they punish harshly because it hurt$ profit$ - proving to the rest of us a second time what human life is worth there).
No-one should trust a nation with that mentality with their own lives in something like a car at highway speed, because in spite of being "approved" to be sold here, you don't know what you don't know. I've lost count the number of times I've opened up a Chinese electrical appliance to discover it was a death trap waiting to kill someone or their kids while making toast/eggs/a hot milo. Multiply that up in complexity to an entire car… designed to carry you in traffic… among other higher quality cars and 4x4's and trucks and buses… at 120 km/h, and… yeah, good luck with that.
Allow me to call out out the logical fallacy "WhAt AbOuT iPhOnEs/XiAoMi/HuAwEi" etc.
Newflash - China make good electronics, but not so good cars. Like, my local bakery makes really good bread, but I wouldn't get them to make sushi for me. Their ICE vehicles are substandard but their EV's are probably gonna take over the world. Wait for them, skip their ICEV's in the meantime.
Why The HAVAL Hate?
(Fyi I don’t hate, but rather it won’t be in the list of models I’d consider when buying a vehicle)
Simples, when it comes to lethal projectiles that can kill people and myself while using it, I tend to go with safest and industry leading choices that I’d know of and people have no problem recommending it. (Toyota, VW, Merc, etc)
Haval for me (in 2021) doesn’t look very appealing, it doesnt have tech that looks very pleasing to me personally and I’m not very sure of the after sales value of it having used it for 5 years.
I have a 2021 Haval H6 Ultra. It is good to drive, looks good and has everything I wanted in a car.
ICE could do with a few tweaks and shortcuts but otherwise works well with Android auto.
Has ventilation in the seats for hot days.
Just clicked over 1200km and I am happy with the performance.
Engine is responsive and cruises nicely.
Fuel economy is pretty good too.
Wish they could make one of the cheaper cars a Hybrid, same issue with GM.
Jolion looks nice, but dont want a small SUV with 8ltr/100km.for those who downvoted me, currrent suzuki Vitara turbo came out 2017 with the indian designed boosterjet engine. we are 5 model years later now.
your question should be to every company
ford has the $20k usd maverick hybrid truck
whys it not here
to me hybrids are a bandaid
go full ev
China won't buy our products, why should we support them by buying their products?
Because you already do and you have to
Gaurantee most of the stuff you own is already made in China
Of course but that doesn't mean you shouldn't look for alternatives where possible.
I thought you said Halal hate, which would be make more sense.
Would you be …. please explain
"hAlAl fUnDs TeRroRiSm"
They look cheap and are probably not great quality. I don't want to support China's industry if I can help it as I see that as a proxy for supporting the CCP. For those mocking anti-China, neg me all you want but you need to pull your head out of your arse.
Find me a good 10 year old Chinese car on Carsales with 150,000 km on it.
If there is one thing I've learned in life is you get what you pay for, If its cheap its for a reason, I'd rather pay a bit more for something that has quality parts and some research behind it, I have not driven 2020/21 models for any but have driven plenty of different cars to differentiate between quality/performance (Use to work at a dealership)
Just because it "looks" good doesn't mean it is good
Never seen a Great Wall of LDV broken down on the side of the road so they must be reliable. Lol.
All honesty I have had some luck with cars.
2005 astra - 120,000 km and no issues what so ever even though I read horror stories regarding the astra range.
2012 jeep - loved that suv, crap fuel economy although was great and never failed in, reluctant trade in due to caravan purchase and couldn’t tow.
Traded in with 65k on the clock.Currently have a Holden Malibu and trailblazer and they both are great reliable cars.
To be fair, those are fairly low k's to be expecting problems. I'm really glad you didn't have issues - but I don't expect serious problems until at least 180-200k kilometres.
You certainly have a penchant for bad stereotype cars for reliability though! :P
Thanks. Yes they are low ks although with the Astra they are renowned for issues especially at the major 90000km service.
Jeep was a bit pricey with servicing.
Never heard of haval. What is the support like for the car in this country? Is it easy and cheap to service?
It has currently 85 dealerships in Australia, it comes with 7 year warranty, and 5 years road assistance, and it has capped price servicing averaging $310 per year.
Is that 7 years warranty on any issues? I find that any 5+ year warranty is isually very heavily caveated.
Do all dealerships do servicing/repairs?
Is that 7 years warranty on any issues?
Of course not, no car has warranty like that. You can read the terms and conditions here https://www.gwmhaval.com.au/dxdam/93/93ec2b63-fbe0-4385-a7d5…
Do all dealerships do servicing/repairs?
I would assume most yes, but you would have to double check. All Holden and most Honda dealerships became GWM/Haval.
Same as the "hate" for Hyundai and Kia in the nineties and early noughties.
The trust just isn't there and trust needs to be earned.
It's got nothing to do with the country of manufacture per se… Daewoo never broke the shackles of being a "Shit brand", cause they didn't earn the trust.
It's just that there is not enough time in the market with quality product as yet.They are cheap cars and the build and service quality shows it. They aren't value cars (yet, maybe they already are, but we just wont know for another 5-10 years).
Until shit like this stops happening, all Chinese brands in particular will be tarred by the same brush.
Volvo and MG nameplates might escape some of the criticism, but solely cause people recognise the name and aren't looking under the skin.I don't like Chinese cars because they are simply the whitegood of the car world, but there is clearly a market for them.
Cheap and cheerful - they do the job of transporting people/things around, and for the price, are packed with features - unbeatable with any other make. Safety has definitely improved where its at the same level of any other manufacturer
If it was made anywhere but China, the cars would cost significantly higher. I think if it gets to that point you can then draw comparisons to Korean/Japanese offerings.
you describe 90% of cars out there
is there much joy to be had in a $38k Hyundai Tucson with an n/a 2.0 four?
I dont think i've ever had any fun in a Camry Corolla etc.
People just want reliable transport from A to B. I question whether they even provide that.
There's not much fun to be had on our roads and traffic anyway.
Its going to be a long time until the Chinese get to building an MX5 or 911… and I doubt they will get there given EVs will take over.
Further the Chinese market specifically excludes the design of any "fun" cars…. the CCP doesnt want to expand car ownership much further than it already has.
Yes there is - Hyundai, Kia, any of the Japs have a touch of refinement, daresay luxury, and very established branding. Affordable? Yes. Cheap? No.
Chinese cars go for the cheap end of the market. It still fulfils its duties as an A to B car, but without the frills
Think of it as Woolies brand milk vs A2
IPhones aren't as prone to breaking down on a road
Iphones don't have to save your life in an accident
IPhones don't have to last more than 6 years (but they do) - because they're considered high end with quality parts.You buy an suv who's company has only been around for a couple of years and you'll no doubt be the guinea pig.
Give them 10 or so years to sort themselves out then we'll recommend them, bit like hyundai/kia
Some of the stuff I've read about LDV are insane - like rust that could only have been there before painting.
We are here laughing at "Made in China" quality… It's kinda old and backward thinking these days.
I thought it's pretty cool when they send astronauts to space. Clearly, It's not the ability to provide quality. It's about how much the market is willing to pay.Russia sends Cosmonauts out to space, would you buy a LADA?
I probably cant even if I want to.
I have never seen one on the road before.
Why the love for haval?
what have they done to earn any respect?
We all sit here talking about foreign brands, no one is making Made is Australia cars.
"even Australian themselves don't buy these cars" i.e. holden craptiva / craze etc.
I definitely wouldn't buy any cars made in Australia if they were still made here. Still remember the new Toyota Camry I bought back in 2003. The boot would open randomly by itself , any time, anywhere. I took it back to the dealer three times before it was finally fixed.
I’m against buying Chinese brands in general. The Chinese government started a trade war with Australia because Australia pushed to know the origins of Covid-19. Covid has been devastating to the world. I try to avoid Chinese made products and especially home grown brands where possible. China is trying to hurt our economy and our way of life by not buying our exports. Why am I supposed to support their exports and products to improve their way of life? I’ve done nothing to their country but by targeting our mineral and agriculture exports they try to hurt our government tax revenue which impacts education, healthcare, etc. This affects us all.
I also disagree with the way China treats other nations. Most words that come out from the PRc government are lies. Criticising Australia for seeking a nuclear sub while China is building 200 nuclear missile silos and developing a nuclear capable hypersonic weapon. Saying they want peace and stability then ignoring the UN resolution on the South China Sea. China can’t accept things for the way they actually are. It rules with force only to change the status quote to suit itself.
China is spending billions trying to get a port and rail set up in Africa to get Iron ore out to push down prices of Iron ore to hurt Australia more. All funded by Chinese government loans which is how China has grown (money printing).
If you buy Havel, Great Walk, Oppo, Huawei, Etc. then what are you giving money to support? A dictatorial insecure immature aggressive power hungry government that only cares about itself and places Chinese dominance ahead of everything else on the planet. The PRC has No care for international rules or people anywhere else in the world. Hellbent on being right and getting their own way instead of accepting compromise and acting like a mature world citizen. If PRC was actually a strong government then they would not have acted the way they did with HK. Those protests started peacefully but PRC could not handle peaceful protests. PRC can’t accept Taiwan has moved on to become a well functioning modern democracy with a woman as leader. The PRC never had control of Taiwan.
I’m not against Chinese people or Chinese culture but I really dislike Xi and the Communist part government. They are really evil and bad for the environment, peace, equality, sharing of resources, international respect and relations, etc.
Why buy their products if they are doing everything they can to reduce their need to buy ours? Every time I see someone driving a Havel, Great Wall or using an Oppo phone etc. I wonder what there motivation was to buy that product?
You can avoid made in China if you pay attention. Someone else said Volvo was a China brand. It’s Chinese owned but Volvo cars aren’t all made in China yet.
I am not opposed to buying imported products from other nations but trade relationships are supposed to be mutually beneficial. China does not want this with Australia. The PRC tells their people not to send their children to Australian schools and universities. Party members can get demoted if they do so. Open your eyes people. Vote with your hard earned money.
China is not our friend one bit. China is actively trying to cripple our economy and then you go and buy a Chinese made car? China wants dominance in motor vehicle exports as well. Government funded industries with government supplemented wages and services to keep costs down to undermine exports from other nations. Government funded with loans that are never expected to be paid back. The Chinese government never plays by fair rules not even in international aid. International aid from China are actually loans that are expected to be paid back to the Chinese government whereas where Australia builds a road in The Phillipines we do it to help them not to earn money from them. China doesn’t give aid, it gives loans to poorer nations.