With this out of stock and with Dan Andrews just making wearing a face mask mandatory from Wed July 22nd, I think $19.90 / $36.90 for 50 / 100 pcs is quite a good deal. Cannot vouch for the quality as it's my first time buying too. But, something is better than not wearing not a mask, and if you just want something cheap to avoid paying the fine.
Link to 100 pcs here.
Just ordered 100 pcs, arriving 22nd July, just in time.
Just don't cough in them first
..coming soon to a litter strewn shopping centre car park near you.
i can just imagine how many of these are gonna be absentmindedly discarded around car parks @ shopping centres etc going from recent experiences.
its going to be a sea of blue ☹
Haven seen dozens over the last month's near mine already
Better than people dying though.
…what would be better is if people disposed of them properly rather than making it everyone elses problem.
thats why im only buying reusable & washable masks…to cut down on needless waste & avoid these things littering victoria
Where have you found washable reusable ones?
I was following the MIT recommendations and using the oven to heat-clean them but the elastic isn't holding up well.
@Telios: ….bought some from bonds during the week. unfortunately sold out over the last couple days…site says coming back in stock soon so keep an eye out
@franco cozzo: Hey thanks for the info! It was tricky but I got a multipack after checking every few days. Saves me wasting single use ones.
I'm not trying to justify people littering. I'm just saying that complaining about people potentially littering is somewhat irrelevant as face masks are very important right now.
Better than people dying though.
Should be as dangerous as druggies disposing of their syringes on the streets.
People not disposing of them properly is irresponsible and can lead to kids or cleaners picking them up risking their own lives and adding to the spread potentially.
I saying that, so many idiots out there just thinking about themselves no one else. I just went to get groceries and saw mum and dad's with all their kids in their trolleys just walking around without a care in the world entering Kmart and JB hifi. How about one of you stays behind to look after the kids and the other only goes for essentials??
Darwin usually wins… Ive seen kiddies doing what kiddies do and laying on the floor swinging about like a mop under the chrome barriers in checkouts etc and then sharing toys etc with littler siblings. It wont surprise me to find parents encouraging their kiddies to lick the shop fittings.
Should be as dangerous as druggies disposing of their syringes on the streets.
I get the reasoning behind this, but I'd like to point out that stepping on a syringe that potentially has contaminated blood on it is a fair bit worse (and generally more painful) than stepping on a mask that potentially is contaminated. Just figured I'd point that out haha
Could make your own but people are just too lazy, it isn't like there is much to do in lock down. Plus sewing skills will save you a fortune in the long run.
$99 sewing machine from spotlight. $4 per meter for cloth. $4 for 5m of elastic. $4 for black thread. Time and brains are free during lock down.
Sadly most of the stuff in spotlight is sold out.
Already these are the new ciggie butts
Yeah this is going to be the next "plastic bag" and "disposable battery".
There is a place for both, but generally does not include the general populace just burning through these.
For $20 I'd rather pick up a few good quality N95 (or if you're desperate KN95's, if it's at least a reliable brand) and just run them into the ground so to speak assuming you are reasonably staying at home.
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/how-long-air-pollution-m…
this is sad.
If you are scared of touching your used mask, bring a zip-lock bag with you and insert your used mask into it when done.
Then sanitize your hands and when you get home you can carefully remove the mask to be rewashed or disposed of in the bin.
Then sanitize again obviously.
I've actually had to pick up other people's used surgical masks off my lawn because people are ditching them when walking to and from the nearby walking trail.
Make sure the mask meets surgical Standard.
Otherwise they r useless
my scarf and tshirt meets surgical standard…
These are only good to stop your droplets leaving your mouth, they don’t protect from getting the virus, huge misunderstanding about what a surgical mask is and is for
No Idea why you were downvoted, that’s literally what a surgical Mask is for. It is to stop you from dispersing the virus to someone else. You might be asymptomatic but still a carrier of disease.
Yup. If someone has the virus and no mask and you have a mask there's a 70% chance of possible transmission.
If someone has the virus and a mask and you have no mask it's only around 5% possible transmission.
Both with masks is <2% transmission.
@astarman: Good point!
I double checked the infographic and couldn't find a source linked to it!
I did however find a proper EU/Canadian study which suggests
Surgical masks provided about twice as much protection as home made masks, the difference a bit more marked among adults.
FFP2 masks provided adults with about 50 times as much protection as home made masks, and 25 times as much protection as surgical masks.
I believe FFP2 (Filtering Facepiece Against Particles) is the European equivalent to an N95 despite the complex nomenclature.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2440799/
This study was around SARS viruses as well, but I don't believe a baseline was included (no mask).
@jsb: They were from an Asian infographic, but as above, I couldn't find a reliable source for that graphic.
surgical masks have a speical mesh which is good at filtering
@Mokr: It’s not always the mask material in question but the fitting and wearing of the mask. Surgical masks don’t fit well over the entire nose and mouth properly, N95 masks fit better and designed to filter out certain particles
some people just don’t care, and dont support mask policy.
I was just reminding people…not making any profit from them.
Bro, just like, wear it backwards bro
Only part true. Masks do offer limited protection if an infected person coughs or sneezes close to you, you are less likely to inhale a large droplet of virus.
By limiting the amount of virus you are exposed to, you reduce your chance of infection. You also reduce the likelihood of developing severe disease as severity is exposure dependent. This is why some of the worst cases out of endemic areas including Italy and China were the doctors and nurses working in the COVID wards where the exposure was very high.
They are CE certified, not TGA but good enough for personal use
If you think that means anything, I have some surgical stainless steel knives to sell you
Surgical masks are to protect people being operated on, not the surgeons.
A material mask like a scarf or other reusable cloth mask will be sufficient for people going out for food shopping.
Regardless of what type of mask, you still need to keep in mind social distancing and only going out for the allowed reasons within your own suburb.
No type of face mask is a hazmat suit, you aren't invulnerable by wearing one.
Does not seem trust worthy at all. Might be OK to prevent you from copping a $200 fine in Vic from Wednesday night, but that appears about it.
If a scarf stops you spreading it to others, these will too. How well it protects the wearer is less certain. But then, if everyone does it, we are better protected through the actions of everyone.
Why do people insist on making this harder?
I think you make good points and can't find anything to disagree with.
I believe that if we are going to do the right thing by our society - that is to protect each other, we ought to put in that effort and ensure that tools we use are as effective as possible given our individual circumstances; if that means using a $1 mask has the certification to vs a 40c mask that has questionable quality, please use the $1 mask.
At the end of the day, I know a cheap mask is better than no mask; but if a $1 tool is a better tool, that's the one I am advocating.
I agree in a perfect world. But I think most people are well aware that none were available not that long ago. The cases globally are increasing not decreasing so I think it wise to grab what you can while you can if you live in a state that has a second wave.
I think if people make it complicated that opens the door for wackadoodles to argue wearing them is an insult to freedom. Youre not wearing it to protect yourself, youre wearing it because youd feel awful if you spread it to someone who died as a result. Keep it simple, theres little room to argue it, and anyone that does appears as they are, awful people.
Try the code: XP9RBNKD4KQM for $10 off.
Doesn’t work mate.
Must be targeted. Worked for me.
Looks suspicious. I would not trust a eBay seller for this, since there are many fake ones offer no protections.
For example, in the listing they say:
Protection Level:FFP2
This is obviously a wrong rating as disposable 3 layer masks will not be able to reach this and use a different rating.
You can't tell the difference between P1,P2,P3 just by looking at it.
Might say P2 on the ad, but be P1 and you won't be able to tell.
Yes you would not be able to tell, that's why we should buy reputable brands which they will not lie to you since they will get these certified.
While this seller claims it to be FFP2 which obviously is a lie, can you still trust they really use the meltblown filter and offer protections they claimed?
Surgical masks cannot be rated to FFP2, because their shape does not allow them to prevent leakage which is required for certification.
What is happening in VIC?
The AFL has abandoned them for better home states.
Oh…
Hopefully not a forecast for the rest of Australia.
I'm sure these aren't good, but it looks like I'll need something in a few days' time for the couple of times a week I go to the shops, and I can't find anything reusable in stock to be delivered soon. So, these will have to do in the mean time I guess…
these masks will only prevent you from a $200 fine in VIC, so don't bother otherwise.
Yep. You really need N95 or KN95. Not sure why you were negged.
Not true. N95 only offer a marginal improvement over surgical masks.
Actually it seems to be a pretty big improvement.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2440799/
But any mask is better than no mask
If a scarf helps stop the wearer spreading it, these will too. If youve got nothing else, its better than nothing.
When you think you wont spread it, not simply will I catch it, then these actually work. If everyone has something on then these stop the spread.
There is no way to stop a disease without a cure or a vaccine. Everyone getting infected is inevitable.
Based on, pure imagination and ignorance.
Youd have to wonder how so many places have decreased numbers to almost zero if that were true. Its not inevitable, thats just ignorance. Sure a cure is better, but you dont forget the basics in the meantime.
@whooah1979: Sure, and most of Aus still is at near zero. Of course it can happen, but it doesnt happen when people listen to the health authorities properly.
The fact Aus was nearly at zero is proof it needs to be followed, not ignored.
@Tuba: Nearly at zero is all we’re going to get without a vaccine. It’ll be nearly at zero in 60 days and then a new round of infections 60 day after that. Rinse and repeat until a safe vaccine is available or herd immunity kicks in. My money is on latter.
In the meantime we get to see our economy tank and high unemployment because of these rolling lockdowns.
@whooah1979: No it wont, the last remaining will recover in isolation, or die. Zero is attainable without a cure. New infections are coming in from outside, keep borders shut long enough, iso every entrant, and zero is attainable.
Regardless, even if you were right, and youre not, maintaining near zero is better than just saying bugger it.
@Tuba: NZ have been doing a great job by keeping their border closed. But people are now starting to return home. It won't be long before they have an outbreak outside of quarantine.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/25/stay-away-from…
@whooah1979: LOL, and that means NZ now has a second wave does it? No, no it doesnt. It means what they expected, some cases arriving, they are not ambushed by them. Its contained in the same way they went from some cases, to zero in the first place. Even Victorias second wave can be brought under control in the same way, or stricter way, they managed the initial outbreak.
There are plenty of places accepting people back home, and managing just fine without a second wave. Maybe you should look for truths, instead of agendas. If no one spreads it, it cant spread. That isnt rocket science.
Thanks for that doc. According to Trump and his acolytes it will all simply disappear with warmer weather.
Wrong kind of neg bruh
The guys selling a box of these every few seconds.
Toilet paper was selling faster than that. Junk masks like junk health insurance to stop getting fined.
Legit stuff? Please don't contaminate the market here with these junk?
No way they have that stock.
Should have used the ADF.
True Victorian wraps an Aussie Rules footy scarf around their face.
And being winter it keeps us warm at the same time
Not a deal - does not meet AS 4381:2015 standard.
Better off wearing a scarf or home made masks.Than these sh$t.
Does anyone have any recommendations on reusable ones (which are also up to recommended standards)?
You are better to purchase a pack of P2/N95 and use them only when absolutely necessary. Do all of your weekly or fortnightly shopping in a single go and just use one, then throw it out. They can last for a long time if in single use scenario, but should be disposed of after
There are some reusable masks out there, but they are expensive and they rely on filters being fitted properly and precautions taken as you get home to be really effective. You'll likely save money by just purchasing the disposable N95's and sticking to bulk buying/bulk chore doing in a single afternoon etc.
The virus is effectively beyond the reasonable bounds of public health control in some areas of Melbourne, the only way to now stop it is people power and commitment to staying indoors as much as you can. I know it's difficult to do, especially if you have family/work/medial obligations but stay home if you possibly can, masks should be considered the very last line of defence not the first.
Thanks for the detailed write-up. Am in NSW so the masks are just a precautionary measure for me. May just leave the stock for our fellow Victorians instead.
I disagree. The reason the virus is spreading is because we are indoors so much
If you look at places where the weather is nice that has a high population density, they are largely unaffected.
If it's too hot or too cold outside, everyone is inside and the virus transmits easily in the air conditioned space.
I'm sure surgical masks can be worn for more than just an hour. You do your shopping, hang it up outside for a couple of days in the sun and fresh air and then wear it again in a rotation.
Also, n95 masks only offer a marginal improvement over surgical masks. Yes they are better but the virus transmits through aerosols and larger droplets, which both masks can catch, while the actual virus is fine enough to penetrate both.
Transmission via surfaces has yet to be proven, it's obviously better to be safe than sorry, but we could very well be wasting our time and perhaps doing more harm than good sanitizing everything
Pssst, if surface transmission is yet to be proven, not arguing one way or the other its just that its your comment, then I doubt its passing via the air con as there is little chance any aerosol is making it through the entire system without crashing into a surface which it will cling too.
If by nice you mean warm, then Florida wouldnt be such a hotspot. We had the the spread up here in Qld, we just shut down quicker, and more thoroughly. Social distanced etc and people truly stayed home more. Peak hour the roads were empty, it was like driving in the 1970s on a Sunday.
@Tuba: I'm glad you mentioned Florida. Where do you think most people are right now in the following (stinking hot states):
Florida, Arizona, Texas, and Nevada (playing catch-up)
That's right indoors in the aircon.
While Michigan for example everyone is outside enjoying the pleasant summer weather. Guess how they are doing with covid?
How's Victoria doing everyone inside with the cold weather? Way worse than NSW, QLD, etc, etc.
Victoria had by far the toughest measures closing, eg down schools before any other states. Driver activity was much much less in Victoria vs NSW also, which means people were staying put in VIC obeying the lockdown ordinances.
@TEER3X: Our numbers were declining with everyone indoors, and until maybe a month ago, I was using air con all day.
@Tuba: Fair enough, Australia isn't a good case study anyway.
As for aerosols surviving a HVAC system, I don't know you could be right but if you spray some perfume into the return air duct it will go through the entire system and leave that scent in the whole building.
There are hospitals (in the US at least) that UV treat the return air. It's a good way to kill covid if it's exposed enough, or very high heat.
ETA. NY peaked in winter because everyone is inside. In the summertime their weather is nice. So natural social distancing occurs.
Victoria DHS has a template for making own reusable masks. Most likely streets ahead of these ones.
I'm a Medical Scientist and have been working sars-cov for 5 months and lemme tell ya, you reallllllly have to get the the right mask if you possibly can. They are classified as P2 (European/Australian Name) or N95 (USA Name). You'll see them as P2/N95 sometimes but some older/imported packaging may just have one or the other, they are the same essentially so try and grab one if you can.
I've worked 100 hour weeks during Feb/March of the pandemic in an P2+Faceshield almost always and you barely notice it after a few hours. They can however irritate the bridge of your nose if you a big schnoz like me, but that can be completely mitigated but the application of sudocream or similar barrier cream. Another technique is to cut large square bandaid into a triangle and place it on the nose. Generally there should never be a problem, they are designed for long periods of uninterrupted work
You just have to make sure not air should be felt around the top of the nose, which we call the "negative/positive seal test". The mask should 'pucker' slightly inwards when you breathe in and bulge slightly when you gently breathe out. Make sure you clean shave as well if you're a dude and plan on wearing a P2 mask
Surgical masks alone are not considered 'respiratory protection' for sars-cov-2, they protect against large sprays of fluid and big droplets and so one.
Stay home if you possibly can, masks should be considered the very last line of defence not the first
EDIT: For those wondering N95 is US standard naming, KN95 is Chinese Standard naming, KF94 is Korean Standard naming, and PP2/P2 is Euro/UK/Australian/ most of SEA Standard naming. These all offer very similar protection (the difference between their particulate filtering being at or less than 1%).
I thought, perhaps incorrectly that for the N95 stuff to be effective you require a full seal around your face and that they were only good for a short period of time. Half an hour sticks in my mind for some reason.
The idea behind using cloth / surgical masks were to protect others from the virus, not you from transmission. ie slap a mask on everyone and we drop how infectious covid19 is down a heap. Obviously not 100%, but significant.
I'm not going to pretend I've read and understood this entire study, but this seems to indicate that even at <N95 filtration or similar that they will still be beneficial.
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspa.2020.037…
You'd be in a better position to interpret it for us simpletons obviously :).
If you are sick you should only be leaving your house to go to a clinic, or not leaving at all. Likewise if you've been in contact with someone diagnosed.
Cloth masks are if you have absolutely nothing else and are in an emergency situation, but N95's are available as of right now in Aus. Cloth masks can potentially decrease viral loading in a public setting but only for larger droplets as the study articulates. The virus still makes it through cloth masks, dishcloths and scarves and doesn't take into account secondary infection rates from the incorrect and sustained use of everyday items (constant adjusting of scarves, putting them down on surfaces, encouraging reuse etc)
Cloth and surgical masks have in some cases let to false sense of security, people with masks are less likely to socially distance and often more reckless in public places. This significantly decreases the efficacy of cloth and surgical masks but is less risky with a P2/N95….although it still carries some risk
N95's can worn for up to 4 hours in a clinical environment, where you have close contact with multiple infected patients and where masks are limited. They should be more than fine for longer periods in a public setting like shopping centres and so on.
(Radonovich, Lewis & Cheng, Jing & Shenal, Brian & Hodgson, Michael & Bender, Bradley. (2009). Respirator Tolerance in Health Care Workers. JAMA : the journal of the American Medical Association. 301. 36-8. 10.1001/jama.2008.894 - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23761804_Respirator…)
(Rational use of personal protective equipment (PPE) for coronavirus disease (COVID-19): interim guidance) - a touch out of date but still very useful information
Also good to note that studies of masks are often done in sterile, clinical environments that are tightly controlled and do not take into account non-health related environs like a busy shopping centre or grocery store and dynamic movements like getting into and out of vehicles, adjusting prams or trolleys and stretching your arms up to grab things of shelves etc. N95's are always your best bet in these situations
Do you encourage many of us WFH? because our bosses told us we have to work at work, not at home.
Great response, thanks mate.
I regard masks in one simple way, they stop or reduce the chance you will spread it. And in no way do I consider them to protect the wearer, even if they can and do, thats simply a bonus. Sure in a perfect world, but we dont have one of those, and recently masks of any kind were hard to find, and were needed far more urgently for front line staff.
The reason I think that is the best way to view them generally is if the mask saves me, then whatever it saved me from is in my hair and forehead too, its on my neck, shirt and whatever else and Im not changing and showering 100 times a day. Highly unlikely the droplets will only hit my mask. But when I sneeze or cough then all the droplets hit my mask and any that escape are at lower velocity which inhibits to a degree at least the untamed spread.
When we see them as enhancing social distancing when out, and yes you should be home unless absolutely necessary, then even a scarf is effective.
There are studies suggesting they may also protect the wearer, sorry don't have links to the studies on hand but can google for articles:
Thank you, Zavala for some clarity in a very confused area.
This is how you effectively decontaminate them for reuse of N95 masks at home. Microwave generated steam, UV lamp and Vaporous hydrogen peroxide.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/ppe-strategy/d…
Our disposable NON face mask…. lol
500 sold of the 50 in less than hour
200 sold of the 100 in less than hour
Crazy considering there are free alternatives lying around your house … Save your money people
VIC government will also be handing them out from mid week, how they will be distributed are yet to be announced.
Crazy considering there are free alternatives lying around your house
People are just lazy. Old shirts, scissors, ruler, needle and thread. It is too much when people can't even scissor open packaging these days, we need the little opening so we can rip along the printed line (even that can go wrong).
Have you got an official source for Vic gov distribution?
In a group putting together a buy and import for a carton of something more reputable, but if there's going to be gov distribution, might take the finger off the trigger.
I'm curious, how did the government backpedal from its statements earlier about face masks being either useless or more laughably, "harmful" to the wearer?
Thanks, bought 100 to share with friends!