Cheap server anyone? $179 on eBay Warehouse 1 store, and use C10 to get 10% off. Free standard postage. Product page on HP Enterprise. You get
A bit too big for me to replace my trusty N54L.
I have Windows 10 installed on my N54L so it should work fine on this.
I have Windows 10 installed on my N54L so it should work fine on this.
How do you come to that conclusion just because your totally different server runs it?
Because he's referring to an earlier, less powerful computer in the same range (Proliant) of HP servers.
A N54L is a COMPLETELY different product to an ML10.
It's actually a significant challenge to get WIn10 running properly on an ML, as the HP drivers are all configured for Server operating systems.
Because he's referring to an earlier, less powerful computer in the same range (Proliant) of HP servers.
Sigh. The Proliant range is massive and has many different chipsets, configurations, driver availability and so forth. To suggest that because Windows 10 runs on one Proliant server that it will run on another is absurd. Why does everyone who can plug a hard drive into a machine think they are an IT expert and offer their bad advice and continue to push it when pointed out they are wrong?
@Maverick-au: I don't get why you're getting downvoted as this is a good point. I have a workmate with a HP ProLiant DL360 G6 at home as a server. Can you guarantee Windows 10 will work on it because it runs on an N54L and they both happen to be in the "ProLiant" range?
The N54L uses a totally different CPU (low power AMD vs a low end desktop Intel), different chipset therefore and probably everything else (drive controller, NIC, etc.) is different.
This box is a world away from the N54L. The only thing they share is a decent price tag.
FYI I've also upvoted you where you are getting hammered by Negs above for no fair reason.
To suggest that because Windows 10 runs on one Proliant server that it will run on another is absurd
It's almost like saying that because 14" tyres will fit on a Barina, that a larger model Holden also suits them.
Simple solution - install esxi and virtualise windows 10.
There are three people in this thread with Windows 10 installed so what advice is wrong exactly?
It takes a certain kind of arrogance to assume that you're an expert and everyone else is not. I installed Windows 8.1 on mine before I moved to Debian so can you explain the exact differences - in your expert opinion - between that and installing Windows 10 on this machine? As far as I know it's exactly the same. I could test it myself but frankly there's enough people here running Windows 10 that it would be pointless.
There are three people in this thread with Windows 10 installed so what advice is wrong exactly?
The claim that all proliant servers have the same driver availability and will work with windows 10.
It takes a certain kind of arrogance to assume that you're an expert and everyone else is not.
I'm questioning those that are making bold claims that are totally incorrect.
I installed Windows 8.1 on mine before I moved to Debian so can you explain the exact differences - in your expert opinion - between that and installing Windows 10 on this machine? As I know it's exactly the same. I could test it myself but frankly there's enough people here running Windows 10 that it would be pointless.
I can see you're not an IT expert because anyone who knows what they are doing would not assume that because one proliant works that others will work or that because windows 8.1 works that windows 10 will also work.
As I know it's exactly the same. I could test it myself but frankly there's enough people here running Windows 10 that it would be pointless.
Windows 8.1 drivers may or may not work in Windows 10, to say they are the same shows ignorance.
I sort of agree but this machine is similar enough to the Gen8 (same RAID controller, same Matrox G200, both stock Intel chipsets) which people have been installing Windows on for years. I've had the N40L and now own this machine, I know the hardware is not the same but it's not controversial to say that the N36L, N40L, N54L, Gen8 and ML10 v2 are part of the same "family" and they all run consumer Windows, not because of similar hardware but because HP supports Windows Server editions on these and at least the important drivers, eg. RAID, work on both.
I sort of agree but this machine is similar enough to the Gen8 (same RAID controller, same Matrox G200, both stock Intel chipsets) which people have been installing Windows on for years. I've had the N40L and now own this machine, I know the hardware is not the same but it's not controversial to say that the N36L, N40L, N54L, Gen8 and ML10 v2 are part of the same "family" and they all run consumer Windows, not because of similar hardware but because they support Windows Server editions and the important drivers, eg. RAID, work on both.
N54L has an AMD CPU and an AMD RS785E/SB820M chipset.
ML10 V2 has an Intel CPU and an Intel C222 chipset.
How are these the same "family"? They are totally different servers aimed at different markets and have little in common aside from a HP and Proliant badge.
They are HP's entry-level server solutions for home and small-business. Most people I know with the ML10v2 had one of the earlier HP NxxL servers. Those other servers are discussed every time a ML10v2 deal comes up. Of course they are the same market but really I think now you are just being ridiculous.
Literally no-one said that.
See point 1.
I did not say they were the same. I asked you a question which you evaded.
See point 3.
Yes you did, you claimed that all proliants are similar and part of the same family and you continue to do so.
Because he's referring to an earlier, less powerful computer in the same range (Proliant) of HP servers.
Proliant servers is a branding for x86 servers, not a family of similar servers.
The MicroServer NLXX isn't even regarded as part of the Proliant range.
Yes, I said the "same range (Proliant) of HP servers" and then in a follow-up comment I specifically listed which 5 of the many Proliant servers I was referring to as a "family" so there could be absolutely no confusion. You asked how the N54L and ML10 v2 were part of the same family and I explained very clearly why (They are HP's entry-level server solutions for home and small-business…). I made no claims that all Proliants were similar, I did not say nor imply that Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 drivers were identical, or any of the other lies you continue to spread.
By the way, HP calls the N54L a Proliant but I guess it's not an expert source like Wikipedia:
https://www.hpe.com/h20195/v2/default.aspx?cc=us&lc=en&oid=6…
@dazweeja: the only "range" is N54L, N40L, N36L. ML10 v2 is absolutely nothing like the microservers.
and , Well consider the fact that you can only use ECC ram in the box, and non ECC ram causes it to screw up at 90% initilization loop during the boot sequence, dont support registered ram and the fact that almost all of these boxes come without the actual HP 'care package' you will have endless drama even trying to download service packs from your HP account or even claiming warranty directly from HP… you can try the serial from the bios screen which may or may not work as the other one wont
that and the fact it uses a boat load more power than the microservers, they are best avoided unless you want it for a very specific reason. You would not purchase this and install Windows on it, regardless.
That's fine. I personally think the Gen8 Microserver is in the same range as the Gen7 and I think that aside from possibly a low-power CPU option, the ML10 v2 is exactly what I'd expect internally if a Gen9 server was offered in the Microserver form factor. I also don't consider the difference between 25-40W and 40-60W to be a boatload, they are both at the very low end of power consumption. But that's just my opinion and pretty much irrelevant. The point is that HP's entry level servers have been able to run Windows for 6 years and this is no exception. I don't see the point of installing Windows 10 on these either but many do.
@braydenh: It is all related to childhood theist programming. Seriously, in those affect it discourages any sort of scientific reasoning. Resulting in belief, in whatever first jumps into the suffer's mind. This generally then becomes something they "know", so future analysis or questioning, is not required.
You might have to fool around a bit with drivers
I have windows 10 pro installed on one of these and it works flawlessly.
Did you need to do any messing with drivers, or was it a relatively straight forward install?
As I remember it, it was "reasonably" straight forward, except for having to figure out iLo4. There are plenty of guides available (just type in Windows 8/10 install ml10 v2)
lel
buy a low powered box and install bloatware?
Suitable for Plex?
probably not… my HP N54L struggled a lot before i replaced plex server with a celeron toshiba which ok as i dont stream, i.e my host and destination is the same. for streaming 1080p without any problems i recommend i5 or i7.
Just to add to this, I have a HP Gen8 and do not have issues with steaming 720/1080 files via Plex to my Chromecast.
Really? My N54L runs Plex fine.
Mine doesn't with the transcoding overhead - couldn't find any way to disable it :(
My N40L runs Plex fine. After installing a low profile GPU (5 year old Radeon from memory) and an extra 2GB of RAM (6GB total), it even runs Portal (not great, but good enough for my 6 year old).
Agreed - I put a ~$25 Nvidia GPU in my N54L (that's $25 like 3 years ago) and it cranks 1080P no problem. I don't use Plex, but Kodi has churned through everything I've chucked at it over my network (Powerline adapter from one room to another between host and client).
Probably recommend replacing Plex with Kodi as a bigger benefit than hardware (though this won't help if you're trying to cast to iDevices I guess).
Hi kapone, are you able to share your configuration (O/S and Plex or Kodi) on my thread? https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/294192
I have an N54L and have no issues with transcoding. Using FreeNAS (plus 16 gb RAM) as the OS so I think the overheads of Windows on an N54L might be too much for transcoding.
I have this exact server and it works fine with Plex, never had any issues with it
Depends on the os judging by the comments below. Use a low overhead one. I personally chose OMV but there are many linux variants out there.
Noones mentioned in their replies yet it depends if you're transcoding or simply serving files. If it's the latter you can run plex on basically anything as it's essentially just a simple DLNA server at that point. If it's the former, you will want something a little more powerful like an modern i3 or older i5, especially if you want to transcode to multiple different devices at once. This and the interface is are plexes main features.
It's what I use mine for. Transcode up to 1080p. Never tried 4K, and hadn't tried multiple streams before. Edit: actually, I did test simultaneously playing on my iPhone plex app and iPad plex app before. Worked great. Source was 10gig plus 1080p films. Take that for what it's worth.
Using ubuntu server and Plex.
Everything is simply suitable for plex. However you'll have trouble transcoding if your clients need that
I agree don't understand the negs but on my freebase setup with 12 GB of RAM Plex always struggled with transcoding such as casting to android mobile, ios, Chromebook etc. In the end gave up and set it up separately on a Celeron laptop, it does transcoding 720p fine but struggles with 1080ps even the low bit rate ones. I have read on Plex forums that you really need an i5 to get the transcoding perfectly.
Yes you can run plex but if you need to transcoding anymore then 1 stream it may struggle. They say a plex 1080p stream needs 1500 on passmark. This cpu has a 3212 pass mark.
This is not completely accurate so accounting for inaccuracy and anything else on your server you should be able to get 1 1080p transcoding.
http://m.cpubenchmark.net/mid_range_cpus.html - Look up G3240 ands it's the 3.1GHz
Plex will work, but these boxes have LOUD fans. You might be better off with a second hand N54L
I have this server, it can get a bit loud when it first boots up, but once it's up and running it's not too bad.
I got one of these running windows 10. Setup was a bit of a pain to get win10 on. Long boot sequence. Good unit with no other problems otherwise. Don't like how there is only usb2 on the front. Ram can be quite expensive.
Surey it can run off non-ECC ram?
ECC RAM is dirt cheap if you buy ex-server pieces off eBay.
Yep I just bought genuine HP labeled 32GB (4x8GB sticks) for $60 shipped.
RDIMMS yes, UDIMMS no. This does not support RDIMMS.
Yeah it probably can but i didn't have a chance to test or the resources to.
Would be good to know. The ex servers is a good idea but i guess i couldn't wait to trail that stuff either.
No. It refuses to boot unless the RAM is ECC.
I didnt try non ECC Ram, but ECC ram was quite expensive. 8gm was 60$ and does not support RDIMMS. I installed freenas, which was really easy, but installing windows 10 was a bit painful. Also it is pretty noisy in summers, while in winters it was fairly low, but still louder than a normal desktop.
just wonder, why is it difficult to install windows 10? is it because Windows 10 does not support the hardware, thus no driver compatible with it?
Thanks
@televisi: No, just getting the right drivers. once you get the right drivers you are good to go. but tutotirals available on youtube, so you should be able to do it.
Hey mate - what kind of obstacles did you face installing Win10?
I'm thinking of doing the same myself.
Main obstacles were drivers and patience. you need to get the HP server pac which can be tough to find and then use specific drivers from pack. Alot of back and forth with booting. Honestly i cant remember the finer detail cause i wouldn't have called it fun. All i can suggest is having another pc with the internet and a few usbs. Then get the HP server packs and go from there. Good machine otherwise for the price. I have put a silent GP in with 2 x 4tb in raid 0. with an SSD for boot and win10. I use it to backup my data along with serve plex to the house.
Yeah I've also got 2x 4TB drives and an SSD to boot off of as well!
I'm having a nightmare linking my S/N etc to a warranty on the HP site, in order to download the server pack.
Do you know what the product code is?
@Deviner: never did that. I dont think they supply the server pack with these cheap units. i heard they changed recently that you need an enterprise agreement to get it. You should be able to find it else where.
@Fergobf: Ahh right that might be it then.
I read on some fellas blog about him installing Win8.1 and the first thing he said was, sign up and get the server pack etc… but that article is probably old by now.
Here's a link to compare this to the newer models: https://www.hpe.com/au/en/product-catalog/servers/proliant-s…
Nothing anywhere near this cheap though.
I have had one running win 10 pro for about 12 months. Apart from the difficulty in getting win 10 pro installed properly, it has been a fast reliable machine. Fast because I am running 16GB ECC and a xeon e1240 v3, which was a direct swap for the pentium. Chews through .par work. Can be loud at times, but it is not large.
For the price it is a pretty good server. I had it running xpenology perfectly for a while as well.
A steep learning curve is involved to run windows properly.
I run mine headless.
For long term would it be better to get a gen8 micro server?
Especially considering they use 25-42w and this uses up to 350w
For long term would it be better to get a gen8 micro server?
Especially considering they use 25-42w and this uses up to 350w
I'm not sure why you're comparing one servers minimums with anothers maximums. Try comparing apples with apples and start by breaking down the components and looking at individual power draw.
"Especially considering they use 25-42w and this uses up to 350w"
"they use 25-42w"
(I meant 45w btw) meaning UP TO 45W.
Which is the exact same thing as what I said with this one. "and this uses up to 350w"
The Gen8 uses up to 150W because then the power supply cannot supply any more power. It seems like you're comparing the power draw of a bare Gen8 with no hard drives or discrete GPU with the maximum rating of the power supply in the ML10v2. That makes no sense.
"they use 25-42w"
(I meant 45w btw) meaning UP TO 45W.
Which is the exact same thing as what I said with this one. "and this uses up to 350w"
You're suggesting that one machine uses 45W and a similar machine uses 350W. How? Magic? Where do you think that other 305W goes? A small heater in the front? Sheesh.
With 4x5TB, SSD, i3-4170, i350-T4 and 20gb ECC mine uses about 60W at idle, full load about 80W.
Awesome, I've been wondering about this. I have the stock pentium, 8gb ram, an ssd and 4x2TB in a raidz2. One annoying thing is that you can't boot the thing off the "optical" sata ports so I have a USB stick with grub and nothing else on it to boot it off the ssd. Awesome value, comes with ilom/elom (whatever they call it nowdays) capability too. I'm really happy with mine.
It also boots off the HDD1 connection but yeah I agree the boot options are just dumb. You can't boot USB3… I mean… seriously?
I think it's a pretty awesome server for plex/zfsonlinux as an AIO box but mine is pretty much full of crap now, so I'm interested in finding out the ECC/iommu support for the lower end ryzen cpu's and I'm going to DIY it again.
The seller's specs do not list ECC RAM which might be a bit of a trap for the inexperienced/unwary.
Good price and good solid machine. Bigger and louder than a Microserver but the flipside is that it has a greater internal physical capacity.
I have 8 x 3.5" drives in mine, plus a 2.5" SSD. Running Win 10 Pro and the remote management console is very useful.
How hot does your machine get?
How hot does your machine get?
It depends on many factors including your environment but this machine is going to put out the same heat as another similar one.
It's a fair question, ie; how well does the case and stock cooling perform.
Where did you put the other 4 drives? What HBA are you using?
i can see only space for 6 max. 4x standard, and 2x in the optical bays with the brackets.
where are your other two?
Kingston make memory which is 100% compatible.
~$100 for 8GB modules on Staticice
https://www.kingston.com/en/memory/search?DeviceType=8&Mfr=H…
8GB Module - DDR3 1600MHz
Part Number: KTH-PL316E/8G
Specs: DDR3 , 1600MHz , ECC , CL11 , X8 , 1.5V , Unbuffered , DIMM , 240-pin
http://www.eyo.com.au/310220_kingston-8gb-1600mhz-ecc-module…
This is a pretty big case.
For those just interested in a home server, don't be caught out into thinking bigger is better and is needed for 1080p streaming.
I still have my N36L Microserver and use it as a HTPC. Whisper quiet (quiet enough to have it sitting NEXT to the TV), uses jack all power, and will happily chug along streaming full Bluray Rips off the hard drives (lossless 25Gb rips).
Upgraded memory and a silent video card (no fan low profile) is all you need.
It has four bays just like this one… but a much smaller footprint. I have another three USB external hard drives hanging off it, and again… no issues with streaming hi-def content.
What I'm saying is, unless you need a big server like this, go smaller. If this is going to be locked away somewhere and you aren't concerned about size and noise, fine. But if you want something small in the study or in the lounge, this isn't the case you are looking for.
I upgraded from N36L/N54L to the ML10v2 because:
it holds more 3.5" drives
I can upgrade the cpu to a xeon.
Now I can stream video, run sabnzbd+ for downloads and storage, use it as a nvr for 4 IP cams, and back up my other windows machines, all in one box. My little G8's struggled, and so I was running 2 of them to do the same as one ML10v2. So an overall power saving.
Both are great, if you don't need 4 3.5" drives and a faster cpu, It is better to stay with the G8.
Oh, and installing windows on a microserver is way easier than doing it on a ml10v2.
Why don't you upgrade the size of your hdds instead of hanging off external drives?
Because I'm cheap and don't want to have 5Tb hard drives sitting around gathering dust :).
I'll eventually run out of space and of course I'll upgrade, but if I can stretch the time between upgrading the four internal drives by getting 1 or 2 externals, I'll get more space later.
Hi UFO, care to provide comments based on my thread https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/294192 ? As I'm struggling running 1080p on Kodi with Windows 7x64
Thanks
Can't offer you any help bud, sorry. I'm not running Kodi, I'm using good old Media Portal with custom skins on Win7.
I figure if it ain't broke don't fix it! :)
I remember having difficulties initially, and they were all codec related. Try installing/running different video codecs and see what works best.
Your N40L is better specced than my N36L, so provided you have a decent video card and memory you shouldn't be having any issues hardware wise. Just remember with HTPC's its more about the video card and available memory, and less about CPU processing power.
Sorry I can't be more help.
Hey UFO, same here running N36L with 5GB ram and a fanless ATI 6450
It serves me well last 4 years as a HTPC running windows 8. however it will not play H.265 and some wmv video smoothly. Are you having the same problem?
I don't like WMV files at all. Terrible container and there's far better available. Most of my files are MKV, and I'll use MakeMKV to rip any source discs to ensure lossless. Programs like Handbrake will actually encode and re-encode the video, making things unnecessarily 'dirty'. If you have WMV files, I'd suggest using a video converter to change containers, or re-sampling the original source and putting directly into a MKV file. Issues with H.265 could be codec related. Windows 8 is not a terrific platform to be working with. I'd suggest trying to 'downgrade' to Win7 (imo not a downgrade at all). You'll instantly get access to better drivers and codec files that'll be more accommodating to a HTPC setup.
My Microserver is so old it won't upgrade to 64bit (no suitable drivers available for the network controller). So I'm still running 32bit. And I'm still rock solid… no stutters, no crashes, just a really reliable media server.
Grab a spare hard drive and install Win7 fresh on it and start again to at least try. No need to completely destroy your current setup. I reckon its worth a shot. I know Win8 is newer. I know Kodi is newer. But Media Portal on a 32bit Win7 setup is rock solid. Old but good :).
Cheers mate, will source another ssd then have a try.
Sorry mate, I just noticed I didn't answer one of your questions (H.265).
I can't answer that one for you because I don't have any files with that format.
H.264 is as high as I've got… and all I need at the moment because I don't have a TV that'll take advantage of the higher res of H.265.
I strongly suspect you'll run into hardware limitations with H.265 however. Able to get up to 8k UHD content on that format, any rig not i7 or above and with a hefty video card would struggle. Would be lovely no doubt, but well beyond what I need.
These make great nas or freepbx box. boot os from usb.
Just unplug the temperature sensor to get rid of the annoying fan noise.
The case fans still runs ok for light usage.
excuse my ignorance but what makes this different to say if i were to just buy a mobo+cpu+ram+case/psu combo from msy?
It's cheap and is comparatively low-power (mine has two hard drives and averages about 60W). On the downside, the fan in this is a bit noisy (but not too bad after boot-up) and it can be a pain to install some OSes. The normal use case is if you want to run a server 24/7.
Regarding the noise, mine is very quiet (running Linux and the box is mostly idle). It's in the boiler room and I can barely hear it through the large wall ventilation grill 1m away in the entry.
Sure they're more like vacuum cleaners before the OS loads and it settles down, but like you said these are meant to run 24/7.
Cheaper and ECC RAM.
what makes this different to say if i were to just buy a mobo+cpu+ram+case/psu combo from msy?
It's a SERVER for proper enterprise/commercial use.
You cannot build a machine for home use of these specs for this price, however they aren't really similar anyway.
I wouldn't exactly call this an enterprise server. It's a cheap desktop PC with ilo.
It does not say so but surely these servers support Windows 10 Pro?