Looking at this Used Tesla Model 3.
It’s only $32K. It is worth it? It seems to be heavily used: 90,170 kilometre odometer.
First Time Car Buyer - Is This Used Tesla Worth $32,000?
Edyolo on 20/06/2024 - 10:01
Last edited 20/06/2024 - 12:05 by 1 other user
Last edited 20/06/2024 - 12:05 by 1 other user
Comments
Your fear is misguided. Batteires is telsa are lasting a lot longer than that. Their warranty is for 10 years on battery isnt it?
Batteires is telsa are lasting a lot longer than that.
Some are, some aren't. That is the nature of batteries…
10 years is what is expected on average…
Previous owner/s could have spent the last 4 years charging this Tesla to 100% and running down to 5% because they were always going to sell it.
Pretty sure this variant relies heavily on a 20%-80% charge range to improve future battery reliability / health.
I could be wrong.
@Muzeeb: not only that but if it has been fast charged a lot it degrades lithium batteries too
even good 18650 chargers will charge slower even though they can charge all calls at 2a or more
Warranties are not all they're cut up to be. What exclusions are there? I wouldn't be surprised if there was some wording saying if it had been fast charged too much or launched too much that it isn't covered.
I launched all my Model S Performances more often than I care to remember, I took the second one back to Tesla when the message to do so came up on the dash, it turned out they had to replace the whole main battery pack which they did under warranty with no fuss. The whole process took around 2 months since they had to ship it from USA. Not sure how it is now with Model 3/Y as I never considered buying a 3/Y. If purchasing a used Tesla, I would also advise against getting one that no longer has its new car warranty, in my experience various things did go wrong, not just the battery.
Like what happened to the family with their 1yo atto3
https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/we-w…
@Roney: I'm surprised that story made the news.
Cars break down all the time. I've been towed plenty of times in my 25 years of driving. Even had an engine completely seize on the highway once (unlike the person in that story, it was during PM peak, an hour from home which was fun) and had to get an emergency tow off the highway to a "safe spot", where I then had to arrange my own towing to get it to a mechanic. Was in the shop for a few weeks getting the whole engine replaced.
Seems like News Ltd want to jump on any story that puts down scary EVs, as though ICE vehicles don't have their own problems.
@Name: Was it a total failure on a 15 month old car you had?
The article mostly seems aimed at the terrible after sales service, the deletion of footage, trying to shift blame on to them for not charging the vehicle, then things getting difficult when they wanted a refund and made a claim with consumer law in ACT.
They completed their obligation of warranty and replaced the battery.
Not sure you read the article as it doesn't see to be putting down EVs as hard as you think, more so highlighting potential issues, delays of parts, privacy issues and other concerns that can arise with brands new to Australia.Poorly maintained vehicles do need to be towed often, maintained cars aren't, most people don't care about maintenance if they can save a few bucks.
Was it a total failure on a 15 month old car you had?
Nah, was about 4 years old, failed oil pump. I was trying to make it to the next exit instead of stopping in the middle of a lane on the highway. Didn't make it.
The article mostly seems aimed at the terrible after sales service
Ah right. I didn't get that same impression. While they talked about that in the article it all seemed to be centred around it being an electric vehicle. Even the sensationalised first paragraph about nightmare experience 100km/h EV.
Poorly maintained vehicles do need to be towed often
Agreed. Not sure why that was mentioned? Not something anyone is disputing.
@Name: Reads more like a story against Chinese products than specifically EV. Another one of those sinophobic stories.
Your fear is misguided
No it's not.
Batteires is telsa are lasting a lot longer than that
Some are, depending on how the owner looked after it, and you have no idea what that is. Just scroll through the ads on carsales and you'll see the odd EV either already had a battery replacement or needing one. It's a real risk.
Their warranty is for 10 years on battery isnt it?
- Which means you've only got 4 years before a potential ~$20k repair (maybe).
Which means you've only got 4 years before a potential ~$20k repair (maybe).
Will be interesting to see if it will be this much in 4 years. Batteries seem to get cheaper every year. Plus the one you replace it with might actually be better
Some are, depending on how the owner looked after it, and you have no idea what that is.
No different to an ICE vehicle.
No different to an ICE vehicle.
Absolutely different because you can easily inspect a car both externally and engine wise for wear and tear. A quick inspection of exhaust will pumping the gas, a smell of the oil, a listen to any knock or rattle under load gives you a decent indicator right off the bat.
You have no easy way of knowing how a battery was charged or drained. Heat damage for example would be invisible unless you pulled the entire battery out of the car and inspected each cell.This idea just popped into my head, so take it with a large grain of salt. How long before cheap knockoff batteries are put into used EVs? Is that even a thing?
Where there is a dollar to be made there is usually a scam to be had, so I can imagine someone will try it…
Hence the best place to check for "value" is the car market itself.
Why is Op asking us?Just go and compare price with other Telsas
Its amazing how many people here are too lazy to do their own research.
HeWhoDoesNotKnow
Where did you get 10 years from?
"8 years or 160,000 km, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period." some models are up to 240,000km's (or still 8 years).
"If your Battery or Drive Unit requires warranty repair, Tesla will repair the unit, or replace it with a new, reconditions or re-manufactured part at the sole discretion of Tesla. The warranty replacement may not restore the vehicle to a "like new" condition but when replacing a Battery, Tesla will ensure that the energy capacity of the replacement Battery is at least equal to that of the original Battery before the failure occurred"
Sure sounds good on paper???
Bahaha, no.
Batteries have a lifespan of 300,000km.
Generally at 90,000km degradation will be at about 90% of original capacity.
Good to know! :)
Part of my earlier response was influenced by tabloid news: https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/we-w…
Wouldnt touch one with a barge pole… this blokes cars resale now = $0
@pharkurnell: I keep hearing from skeptics that EVs are worthless, but every time I go looking for a used Tesla for say, nothing, I never find one.
I'm even willing to pay a few thousand dollars for a worthless vehicle, yet no one seems interested. I wonder why?
@Cluster: This blokes car has been splashed all over the interwebs as a chunk of shit…
His families faces are recognizable now as owner of a dud and you can read how he's been treated by manufacturer…
If you went to look at it to buy it, what would you do?If he went to trade it in, how much do you think he'd get offered?
@pharkurnell: Very little chance of it going wrong. If there are other stories of ByD batteries dying, then that story would have surely played up that aspect, but its not there.
Its a one off. A new battery will likely last the rest of the life of the car.
On top of that, a 18m old ICE car with a failed engine or transmission is a non story - unless the warranty won't pay for it and the owner whines to the media.
@pharkurnell: “After a thorough investigation, the customer was provided with a loan vehicle and BYD Automotive promptly replaced the battery in accordance with the manufacturer’s warranty.”
Tabloid news? Theres your problem.
News.com.au is definitely anti EV and theyll publish as much clickbait as they can without a lot of fact checking.
@Euphemistic: Imagine is news.com.au reported on every ICE vehicle that ended up on a flat bed going back to a dealership to have an engine replaced under warranty…
@Euphemistic: "Shocking Tradegy for iconic Aussie family business in EV related Bali trip" - a culmination of every news.com headline.
Wow, yeah can't trust EVs . They all breakdown. No ICE vehicle has ever broken within 12 months. And if they had then the company would have bent over backwards to help the poor aussie battler! /sarcasm
News.com.au is owned by Newscorp who has a very distinctive agenda against certain things, one of those is EVs. Not to discredit them entirely, they sparingly do good work. But when it comes to anything politics or environment I would take it with a grain of salt.
LOL this story from news.com.au is funny!!
ICE brands would do the same and drag their feet too… No way they will give you a refund. LOL without lots of fights and all.
and best of all they were provided with a temporary vehicle all this while. They weren't impacted at all at the end of the day!!if ICE no way man they give you a temporary vehicle in most cases.
@ttt888: Exactly! My friend had a Ford ICE vehicle, she had to get involved in a class action lawsuit to get their money back as it was a design fault with the powershift?Whatever that is.. The problems dragged on for close to a decade. Anyway they aren't giving a refund for a faulty battery that could easily be replaced and no one else having the same issues.
Wow so BYD said they’ll replace the battery but instead the customer chucked a wobbly and demanded a refund?
His actions do not make sense.
@sponson: Yeah on a 18 month old car too, no way a dealer would give you a full refund on a ICE car after 18 months if the engine failed (unless it was a common fault happening to all models that of car).
Batteries have a lifespan of 300,000km.
ICE's also have a lifespan like this but they breakdown well before that in a lot of circumstances.
Is there data on how 200,000km+ batteries are fairing?
If you go looking, youll find some.
A refurbished engine will kill the re-sale value of an ICE car to be almost zero as well.
No it wont.
anyone in their right mind will buy a car with the original engine in it.
Not true, not for an older car.
@Iwantthebestprice: How so?
So you'd choose a car with a replaced engine than one without, if everything else was relatively equal? lol
Bahaha, no.
That always makes someone sound more intelligent and trustworthy…
Batteries have a lifespan of 300,000km.
Depends how you look after them. I have some batteries here I'll sell you if you're interested. No questions, just send me some money and they're yours.
Cool
At 300,000km it will be 300% of original capacity. I suck the RDF of electric Jesus.
Op be fine, just as buying a refurb iphone from apple store, nothing more.
Sounds like the engine of most cars.
It is a misconception that the battery has a battery lifespan of 10 years. Battery should last a lot longer than that, the warranty however is limited 8-10 years, so that's where people said the life of batteries is 10 years. You can probably check battery health. I wouldn't touch anything around 80% State of Health (SOH)
On side note, my home battery, gets charge & discharge pretty much everyday for the past 3.5 years, has 94% SOH. So it's not that scary.
It is a misconception that the battery has a battery lifespan of 10 years
It's not that it won't last, it's that it will become impractical to own due to the ever-decreasing range. We all know what this is like with old phones or battery tools. The battery gets old, it loses life and there's no coming back.
On side note, my home battery, gets charge & discharge pretty much everyday for the past 3.5 years, has 94% SOH. So it's not that scary.
One important difference, the home battery is not being fast charged or fast drained, which is what increases the wear.
Do you have actual experience with modern EVs with good battery management and current tech chemistry for batteries? Because you certainly keep parroting the anti-EV talking points that dont seem to be the concern of ACTUAL EV owners.
Most proponents of EVs are finding the battery life lasting longer than expectations.
Do you have actual experience with modern EVs with good battery management and current tech chemistry for batteries?
Yes. Got a background in electrical engineering, how about you?
And I see you didn't address anything I said, just went straight for the man instead of the ball… which is typical when fanboys get their feathers ruffled.Because you certainly keep parroting the anti-EV talking points
Which part of what I said do you disagree with? Man. Ball.
that dont seem to be the concern of ACTUAL EV owners.
Which owners?
This owner? https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2019-nissan-leaf-ze…
5 years old and dead battery…
Or this one: https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2015-tesla-model-s-…
9 years old and down to 50% range…
Or this one https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2014-tesla-model-s-…
required a $28k battery replacement…
These are real risks that potential buyers need to be aware of.
Most proponents of EVs are finding the battery life lasting longer than expectations.
Where is your survey? What is the expectation compared to the reality? I wonder if the 3 owners above feel the same way?
Since EV's have only been around a short time how could you possibly tell? Tesla is only 10 years old here, The other EV's far less (except Nissan which has a terrible battery record long term).This owner? https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2019-nissan-leaf-ze…5 years old and dead battery…
Its a leaf. Nuff said.
Or this one: https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2015-tesla-model-s-…9 years old and down to 50% range…
How do you figure that? My read is that theyve tested 90-20% charge and got 250km. If the original range was 410km, that closer to 85% capacity.
Or this one https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2014-tesla-model-s-… required a $28k battery replacement…
Doesnt say it required a battery replacement. Could just be they WANTED longer range and $28k is cheaper than a new car.
Youve cherry picked a few examples tk back your case. I could go and cherry pick other examples where the capacity is still over 80% at 400,000km. Or the one that had 666000km before it got a new battery
https://youtu.be/r1BBNJDnkTQ?si=wBeEAkKYV4Zh-cBM
Video about battery myths.
Its a leaf. Nuff said.
So it doesn't exist, or it does?
My read is that
Well I guess it's open to interpretation, but "243km on 90% charge but we don't let the charge drop below 20%" implies that 243km is the full range (from 90% to 0%).
And if you don't go below 20% that 243km suddenly then becomes 194km.If the original range was 410km, that closer to 85% capacity.
It says on the ad that the original range was 502km, so even then, and let's assume you're right about the 243 being 90% to 20% instead of 90% to 0%, that makes the 100% to 0% range 347km. And 347 is 69% of 502, not 85%.
So best case is 69%, worst case is 46%. Both are terrible.
And do you think the battery will is more likely to stay at this number or continue to deteriorate over time?
Could just be they WANTED longer range and $28k is cheaper than a new car.
Lol…
Youve cherry picked a few examples tk back your case
That is how risk works. One case is enough to show risk. I've given multiple.
Here's another, these are easy to find if you just look around:
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2020-tesla-model-s-…?Needed a new battery after only 4 years
Video about battery myths.
You mentioned "parroting the anti-EV talking points" yet all you've done here is parroted a pro-EV opinion from a guy who's business is selling EVs.Hardly an objective opinion.
Well I guess it's open to interpretation, but "243km on 90% charge but we don't let the charge drop below 20%
Yes, it is open to interpretation. What the ad should state is battery health/capacity not some random figure that can be interpreted differently. As for the original range, i found 410km on google. A second google says range 295-575km. Now we can perhaps imply that the range is a number on their dashboard that may be affected by their driving style or intended route. Maybe the regualrly do 243km and get home with 20% remaining every time. Maybe 243 is what the car tells the the range is before they hit the highway and drive from Sydney to Katoomba in winter a one off worst case. We just don't know.
So its OK for you to cherry pick some dud batteries, but not ok to point to an average 90% capacity at 200,000 miles in tesla? Or the vomment ablut the battery recycler that cant get enough supply to recycle? Yours is also hardly an objective opinion.
I get it, YOU are concerned about the risk of battey failure. Maybe thats because you have a very low risk tolerance. Personally, my risk tolerance would allow me to buy an EV based on what I have heard ht battery life. Sure, theres some risk the battery will fail, but IMO its not dissimilar to the risk of an ICE engine or transmisison failing.
So its OK for you to cherry pick some dud batteries
I already told you, even one example is enough to provide a risk profile. That is how risk works. When the Space Shuttle Challenger blew up, it was a single case which derailed the entire space program for 2 and half years due to the massive escalation of risk. You keep using the word 'cherry pick' out of context here. Providing examples is precisely how it works.
my risk tolerance would allow me to buy an EV based on what I have heard ht battery life.
Cool so what's the problem? Some people have higher risk tolerance than others. Why are some people's opinion invalidated because they disagree with your own?
The original comment I made which you replied merely talked about battery wear related to use and charge behaviour. This is all well known stuff. Tesla even mention this on their website. Here's a pro-EV site saying the exact same thing: https://www.evsrepublic.com/blog/our-top-tips-on-how-to-maxi…
its not dissimilar to the risk of an ICE engine or transmisison failing.
I think it is. Because I've owned a lot of cars, flogged most of them, never had to think about how much petrol I put in them and they still go strong for 20-30 years with nothing more than an annual oil change. EV's seem (at this point with only 10 years of proper data) a lot more prone to higher and earlier degradation which will likely become much more apparent in the next 10 years. We'll see how it goes.
We'll see how it goes.
Yes, we will see how they go. Im optimistic
I first engaged with your comment because they seemed quite negative and appeared to be coming from clickbait headline type stories. It annoys me thatthere is so much misinformation out there about how bad EVs are. How heavy they are. About how you cant charge them anywhere and it takes all day. About how all the batteries all fail after 10 years when these are clearly extreme cases.
I understand that your opinion is your own, but quite often similar opinions to your come from a place of very little actual knowledge rather than a low risk tolerance.
Nobody blinks an eye at buying an ICE despite the numerous warranty items that carried ojt when parts inevitably fail. 10yo euto luxury car? No thanks, a computer is likely to cark it rendering the thing scrap metal.
thoughts about this thread 😂
Thoughts on what? A thread about EVs on ozbargain? It'll be full of nutters….. NEXT.
This owner? https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2019-nissan-leaf-ze…
5 years old and dead battery…that leaf did 222K km in 5 years which means it requires a lot of fast charging… You cherrypick an extreme, there would be cars that require a new engine if it travels so much in 5 years without proper maintenance.
Or this one: https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2015-tesla-model-s-…
9 years old and down to 50% range…Real range of a tesla model S P85D was never 500km, it's around 400km. And newer car batteries tech are much better. A leaf is notorious bad with battery because it didn't have active cooling system for the battery hence it degrades much faster.
When buying an ICE car, do you worry about the replacement of the engine and/or gearbox, as they can be about the same price years days.
When buying an ICE car, do you worry about the replacement of the engine and/or gearbox
Yes, which is why I get cars checked out first or ensure they have a suitable warranty. I also buy from reputable brands with a long record of reliability and support. It's the exact same reason why I'd pick a Japanese car over a French car. The logic is the same here.
as they can be about the same price years days.
What?
You could literally check the battery state of charge
Is there a way for you to check the battery health of a used tesla?
It is possible to test it using the car’s service mode and a wall charger.
that's pretty good, not much to go wrong with ev's
I’ve seen anecdotal reports/reviews that the early US made model 3s generally have a worse fit and finish than the later Chinese manufactured units
I also remember some seriously bad looking panel gaps early on… but not sure if they had them sorted by 2020
I’m sure the car itself will be fine and I would consider it myself, but definitely make sure you’re happy with the way it looks and any squeaks/rattles (if there are any)
Chinese built Tesla's are have much better fit and finish.
To be clear not because chinese does it better. Tesla has sort out all their earlier productions problems and since they were building a new factory in china back then they were able to implement the best practices, factory equipments etc etc.
Regardless of equipment, actually the Chinese do it better than the American factory workers. Quality control is better.
Chinese equal to the Japanese? No, but they are better than the Americans.
Gotta love tha elon is beta testing his cars on the public
Both my brother and brother in law were early Tesla adopters. Basically waited years for the first batch of Model3s to arrive in Australia and the build was definitely attrocious. Panel gaps due to misaligned panels or doors, horrible paint. All these came from the US factory and I swore off ever buying a Tesla.
6 years later I'm now a Model Y owner after 20 years of owning euros. The Chinese can definitely build them better than the US counterparts as the fit and finish is on point.
Car warranty 1 year or 20000k starting from delivery.
Battery warranty til 2028 or total 160000 km.
That looks like a fantastic deal!
Note that there have been a few improvements over the years - the core differences with yours (not immediately apparent) would be having the Intel Atom CPU (instead of AMD Ryzen) and standard NMC battery (instead of LFP). The less major, but more obvious differences, would be things like no powered boot, no heating rear seats, no heated steering wheel, possible no wireless phone charging pads.
But don't worry about those - you'll still be able to benefit from all the advantages of EV ownership, and the performance of a Tesla, and if it's your first car you'll be over the moon with this one! It's through Tesla (not a third party) so it would have been fully checked.
It's through Tesla (not a third party) so it would have been fully checked.
Don't put this much trust into dealerships
Tesla doesn't have dealerships.
Tesla can call them whatever they wish, they are dealerships.
@doobey1231: Also reports of genuine used teslas in the US being misrepresented and being in much worse condition than advertised or even not being available at the location listed and having to chase up the car for weeks+
@pizzip: Wow! Just like ICE car sellers have done forever.
The point is OP needs to go through exactly the same sort of checks he would if he was buying a used ICE. If it passes those checks this one seems well priced.
Given this is through Tesla itself I'm surprised it doesn't advertised the battery SOH, I mean it'll be the first thing any used EV buyer should be interested in.
No.
Have a think if you actually want to drive a Tesla. Since this is your first car I'm guessing you are getting love bitten into the idea of owning what is essentially an iPhone on 4 wheels. Have you test driven what else is out in the market? you'll be surprised.
I can't get behind the design ethos of these cars where everything is a touchscreen.
Also, definitely check it out in person. Are there panel gaps? Scratches? dents? What's the interior like?
I had a Tesla X Uber recently and everything was making noises inside and it just felt poorly put together.
I agree, it is essential to take a look at the vehicle before going any further. But is that even possible? The ad from Tesla doesn't make it clear, just that it is being delivered to one of their warehouses.
I can't imagine buying a second hand tesla without inspecting it, or any car for that matter.
It is still under warranty so that negates a fair bit. Tesla can confirm that.
I sat on a Tesla Uber in Norway and it wasn't quiet, the road sound from the undercarriage was coming in and felt that normal ICE cars are well insulated.
Again, Tesla is dropping the price of new cars, so not sure what this car's real price is.
Are you sure that this is not a refurbished car by Tesla on their silent settlement of major failure and passing you on with A year warranty?
Someone has already used this car to 1/2 the livable value and you want to pay 70% of the value.
I'm not pro or anti EV, but the reason why the road noise may sound worse than it is, is because there is no engine to drown out the road noise.
Fart at a party and no one may notice. Do the same in a library.
THis is 100% true, but it still doesn't help that now you are always in a library and not a party…so hold in those farts?
@cloudy: Turn up the radio?
If you want to still hear the farts, you can program your Tesla to do this also
It's worthless when it starts having problems. Even the dealerships don't want it back.
Wow, your a story teller. I know people that have had even very minor stuff looked after. I have heard of people that have had motor changes and battery changes under warranty, even some that have had computer upgrades for free. I'm not a Tesla fan and hate the thought of not having a dash in front of me, doesn't mean I will make up shit about them.
My fear with second-hand EVs is the battery lifespan and/or replacement costs. Anecdotally, these batteries have a lifespan of 10 years(?) and cost half the price of the car to replace (?)