Why are the providers being allowed to shut down 3G like this and why is there not more push-back?
The sheer amount of e-waste this event will generate is inconceivable, what argument could be made to justify it?
The 2G shut-down made sense, as the technology was /very/ old and barely any phones used it at all, but 3G is still all over the place. Why not wait until 5G adoption is higher?
We are already facing a huge jump in the cost of living in recent years, and now people who had bought a cheaper phone (which are the ones most effected by 3G removal) are forced to spend money they likely don't have.
Surely it is a violation of consumer rights to make millions of Australian's products, some which were only bought within the last few years (like mine) useless.
3G Shutdown Justification
Last edited 16/06/2024 - 23:49
Comments
Even 5 years ago, the first filter an Ozbargainer would have enabled when searching for a phone from overseas is 'Band 28 support'. You cheaped out on something you likely knew you shouldn't. Your case is in the extreme minority.
It's not just phones, either. Our small sports club has a lift that requires an Emergency Phone run off a 3G gateway (installed in the last 5 years), and we need to spend near $1K for a 4G gateway (device + installation). There are going to be lots of cases where public safety is impacted if organisations like ours aren't on top of it.
Why did your club sign off on that given the shutdown was already announced by then? That's just poor management
Yep!
Probably to save a few bucks…
for 4g and 5g. There is only finite amounts of bandwidth on radio frequencies.
I can't wait to see 3G TOTALLY gone, just so I don't have to be subjected to these posts again LoL
4G has low frequency bands. Its going to have just as much reach as 3G, just more efficient. The percentage of the population with a GSM phone are very low. There are probably a few services running solely on 3G but they can be replaced or upgraded. The E-Waste generated from this is absolutely nothing compared to how quickly people replace their 4G capable phones and enterprises throw out massive hauls of outdated computers and servers.
This hasn't been my experience. In rural areas I have to force my phone into 3G as 4G just doesn't stay stable.
Both data and phone calls perform much better in 3G at long distances from the the tower.
A lot of the rural areas have only just had the 4g enabled in the last few months.
A lot of people trolling what seems like a legitimate question…
They're shutting it down to reuse the broadcasting frequencies in 4G/5G which is more efficient / allows faster (and more) transmissions at once
Hence why I've disengaged from the thread, as it's just a dog-pile.
Thanks for being one of the few giving an actual answer.
Like, I get the need to phase out old technology right, but I agree with the OP to a point. I swear, there are locations STILL in Metro Sydney (I was at Bankstown Sports Club a little while ago having lunch with my Dad & grandparents there. Absolute piss poor signal there. Another example is at Wolli Creek train station, on the platform I either only got 3G or 1 bar of 4G which was terrible as it was acting like a 3G connection) where my device gets no 4G signal and falls back to 3G. This, in 2024, should not be happening.
You do know that if they shutdown those 3G towers and reuse the bands for 4G/5G you'll have better service in those areas instead of being stuck on 3G ;)
In theory, yes, but is that a guarantee? Would be rather garbage when the 3G shutdown does occur, if the poor coverage situation doesn't change at all. Be interesting to see when they do that, what occurs at the locations I know that already have poor 4G connectivity.
To understand this you need to understand the frequencies used, lower frequencies typically work better in doors.
3G: 850MHz (B5)
4G: 700MHz (B28), 1800MHz (B3), 2600MHz (B7)
5G: 850MHz (n5), 3500MHZ (n78)Band 28 (4G 700mhz) is the recommended go-to for indoors currently as it's Telstra's most wisely used. Band n5 (850Mhz 5G) will be reclaimed from 3G and in theory have better indoor reception than what is currently available.
Your phone may not support band 28 (common), or it's possibly using B5 because n5 isn't rolled out much yet.
Thanks for the explanation on that. The device I currently use is an iPhone 10S and I'm pretty sure it does support Band 28.
Yeah the iPhones do, are you with Telstra?
b28 usually is pretty good indoors on Telstra, I assume n5 will become good once B5 is reused post shutdown
Correct, telstra are going to up the n5 bw from 5mhz currently, to 10mhz after 3G shutdown. They are also going to deploy 10mhz of n26.
Thanks KFC-McDonalds guy
I know right, my morse code machine is probably still sat in landfill somewhere
I only found out a few weeks ago, that my 4G Android phone, which I only bought eight months ago, won't work once the 3G network is shut down, unless I switch from Telstra to Optus or Vodafone. I had to buy a replacement, as I want to stick with Telstra. It was a used phone that I bought cheaply, but I had planned to use it for four years or so, as I'm on a very limited budget and it works very well. The fact that many 4G devices use 3G for making and receiving calls, making them useless when the 3G network shuts down, is a big issue. It's not enough just to have a 4G device and this is a point that a lot of people are missing. In addition, at my home, I get better reception with 3G than 4G.
which I only bought eight months ago
Import?
The original buyer would have bought it overseas. But it is the global model that supports all Australian 4G bands.
The original buyer would have bought it overseas. But it is the global model that supports all Australian 4G bands.
So guessing the import doesn't support VoLTE hence why it is a problem? :/
@JimmyF: It has VoLTE support, but is missing the required data to use it with Telstra. It will work with Optus and Vodafone, as while it's missing the data for them too, they don't check for it.
@rogerm22: Telstra don't check for it either, the manufacture has to put the setting in for it to work.
"As with 3G calling, Telstra does not restrict any handset for VoLTE.
Telstra does not use an allow/deny (or whitelist/blacklist) list of devices with permitted access VoLTE."@Guth: It will work with Optus and Vodafone without the needed settings, but not for Telstra, even though I have VoLTE enabled.
@rogerm22: Considering the amount of posts in different sections you have made about your phone, you and the OP should do a catch up.
Both seem to fall into the old Buy crap, buy twice issue. Your cheap imported phones are cheap for a reason, they don't have VoLTE support hence why they are not sold in Australia to begin with.
@JimmyF: But my phone is not crap. Aside from the lack of VoLTE support with Telstra, it's been an excellent phone. This is why I've replaced it with another Poco phone. Most likely in the future, I will continue buying Xiaomi phones, if I can get ones with VoLTE support. I've been using their phones for five and a half years and have been very happy with the quality.
But my phone is not crap. Aside from the lack of VoLTE support with Telstra, it's been an excellent phone.
Ok crap might have been a bit hard, but the phone is near useless now as in it doesn't work with our networks, so yes I'm sure the phone is great and all, but is a bit of a show stopper when it doesn't have VoLTE for the network you want to use it on.
We had this issue back about 5-10 years ago but instead of VoLTE it was imported phones missing band 28 meaning they didn't work on big chunks of the network.
that my 4G Android phone
Seems odd to call it a 4G phone when it can't make calls on the 4G network…
It uses 4G for data, but lacks the required configuration data to support voice over LTE with Telstra.
Every elevator that uses a 3G SIM also now needs a 4G sim… we have two elevators and this costs us thousands for Otis to replace so we can have emergency call in the lift. It used to be copper line but NBNCo took that for HFC NBN… and ours were only replaced about 4 years ago. At the time they didn’t have any option for a 4G module. Plenty of people making money off this push to change.
I only get 3G inside my unit on Optus, which promised an upgrade was in the works 14 years ago, yet no new towers or improved reception. I am betting I’ll lose all reception…
Every elevator that uses a 3G SIM also now needs a 4G sim… we have two elevators and this costs us thousands for Otis to replace so we can have emergency call in the lift
Joys of lifts. They cost money to keep running.
It used to be copper line but NBNCo took that for HFC NBN
You can still get a 'phone line' using the NBN.
I only get 3G inside my unit on Optus, which promised an upgrade was in the works 14 years ago, yet no new towers or improved reception. I am betting I’ll lose all reception…
Once the 3G is shutdown, you might find you'll get 4G once they can reuse that band.
Also Australia is late to the 3G shutdown party, some countries did it years ago! https://onomondo.com/blog/2g-3g-sunset/#2-g-and-3-g-sunset-d…
Doesn’t seem like we can in our unit building… they disconnected everyone’s copper phone line to install NBN which is why we had to swap to the SIM apparently… I bet if they tried a bit harder to they probably could have…
Hopefully I get 4G! I barely get 4G at the moment….
Joys of lifts. They cost money to keep running.
This is why when looking for a place, one major criteria was "no elevators."
Figured they'd just be a continual money sink.
The phone in an elevator/lift still needs to work in the event of a power outage, which is problematic depending on the type of NBN technology in use. If a backup cellular system is required to cover this scenario, you may as well not bother with the fixed line and use cellular only.
Kinda off topic, but if it hasn't been a year yet, make sure OTIS got a SIM with longer than 365 days of credit/usage, recently had some of our lift's SIMs shutdown exactly 1 year after install.
the problem is that if 3g is shutdown, then we can only call via 4g network, no backup, 5g is data only for now.
When the entire Optus network (including mobile and fixed internet) went out, there was no backup.
VONR is enabled on telstra for services that have been migrated to the SA core.
Im pretty sure there was announcements made as far back as 2020, possibly even earlier regarding the 3G shutdown. If anyone has then purchased cheap mobiles after that date that only supported 3G then that is their own fault for not planning ahead. Anyone that had a 3G device at the time of the announcement had 4 years to save for a new device. The 3G shutdown is not a new issue that has only recently come about.
Noticed something funny, I turned on wifi calling and put phone on airplane mode and turn on WiFi only. Was still about to get phone calls
I don't know either. 3G is incredibly useful in the country and out bush as it can go a lot further distances.
There's going to be a substantial loss of rural coverage.
Great news for Star Link.
The 4g coverage is the same or better, in saying that a lot of the rural 4g infrastructure installs have been very recent to prepare for the 3g shutdown.
Here's hoping you're right.
Great news for Star Link.
*Starlink
I don't know either. 3G is incredibly useful in the country and out bush as it can go a lot further distances.
There's going to be a substantial loss of rural coverage.But think about the 5G! They are using the 3G Spectrum for 5G coverage.
Surely it is a violation of consumer rights to make millions of Australian's products, some which were only bought within the last few years (like mine) useless.
When 2G was decommissioned, my TomTom GPS stopped downloading traffic data. I contacted TomTom, and they gave me a full refund of $349 for the device that I had for about 2 years.
If you feel that your consumer rights have been affected, the first place to contact is the retailer or manufacturer.
3G was a good lifehack when dealing with congestion in a crowded area. Or the couple of times electricity went out and everyone and their dog was connecting to 4/5G and speed practically went to 0 while 3G is chugging along like nothing happened with a solid 10mbps.
We've had enough of laggards. Seriously, keep up with the times. It's 2024, not 2004. I know kids that have grown up in the years since 3G was introduced and they are now 18+, working, driving and drinking. And you can't upgrade a device that costs <$100?
Do you have any idea the billions that has to be spent supporting legacy systems like this because of laggards?
If you can't afford a mobile device that works then you have far bigger problems.
How long do we have to keep these archaic systems running (3G/5G, cash/pay id, heritage/development, etc, etc, etc).
The amount of systems and processes that are duplicated/triplicated due to people refusing to change, in this country is mind-boggling. This is a huge part of why our services (especially government) are so expensive and inefficient compared to other economies.
There are plenty of 4G devices that use 3G for calls and therefore won't work once the 3G network is shut down. I only found out a few weeks ago that my 4G phone would soon no longer work.
There are plenty of 4G devices that use 3G for calls and therefore won't work once the 3G network is shut down.
Not true, Telstra claims 200k devices out of ~26 million connections are impacted. A lot of these are 'data only' devices like older EFTPOS machines, data logger, IoT crap.
The number 1 device/phone on the TIO impact list is a candy bar phone which is $40 to replace. So hardly going to break the bank.
It cost me $200 to replace my Android smartphone, which I bought used just over six months ago and had not planned to replace for four or five years or so, with one which will work without 3G. If it was a 3G only device, then I would have had no issue replacing it. But when it was a 4G phone and I have a very limited budget it was a shame. Hopefully I get at least four years of usage out of the phone I just bought.
It cost me $200 to replace my Android smartphone, which I bought used just over six months ago and had not planned to replace for four or five years or so
While it sucks, that is the risk of buying a imported phone which doesn't support VoLTE.
I hope you did some research this time round before buying?
pay id
How is PayID a legacy system lol
It's not, cash is the legacy system, payid should replace it, but laggards wont let that happen.
@stealthpaw - here you go.. just for you
https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/telstra-set-to-giv…
Simples…
Incase you haven’t figured out by now, any type of transmission technology requires lot of power and maintenance to operate on. If it’s not being used in-favour of newer technology it is a loss for the operator. Just because you or someone else want to go back to stone age, doesn’t mean someone else has to bear the cost of infrastructure maintenance for it.
In most parts of the world return of investments for infrastructure is very short where as due to the land mass of australia it is extremely longer which is one of the reasons why we’re so behind certain tech advancements as well. While the facts are as that, we have heroes fighting for 2g/3g 🤷♂️
I get better 3G reception where I am. 850Mhz and 900Mhz travels longer distances.
Then you'll get a good 5G! They are going to reuse the 3G band spectrum for 5G.
Doesn't help me, My Blackberry only has 3G and 4G, and the 3G reception is way better than the 4G to the point I have turned off the 4G signal in the settings…
Then you'll get a good 5G! They are going to reuse the 3G band spectrum for 5G.
Depends if the RRU's support NR or if they need to be upgraded. A common example of this is a Gen 1 b28 cell, that can't be used as a ENDC anchor
there is also b28, which is widely used by optus and telstra (700mhz)
inb4 people are mainly seething and coping over the original Optus $2 days unlimited data prepaid which are locked to 3G only.
Hey, if you're using xiaomi, you can see if VoLTE is supported but disabled. Follow the instruction here to enable VoLTE.
tl-dr;
- Goto dialer app and type in
*#*#86583#*#* - You should see popup message "VoLTE carrier check disabled."
> If you see "VoLTE carrier check enabled." try the code again above - Goto Settings -> Sim cards & mobile networks -> Sim. You should see "Use VoLTE toggle".
> Also, on your notification bar above you should see VoLTE icon
Hope this helps someone.
- Goto dialer app and type in
My new iphone with telstra 5g barely gets good data speeds, i cant imagine what 3g would be like
I have a work colleague who still complains that he had to buy a new router, because the government took away his 8M/0.384M ADSL, forcing him on to NBN fibre…
C'mon guys. E-waste is certainly somewhat of an issue, but the real significant e-waste is our E-Safety Commissioner.
OzBargain is a significant contributor to e-waste, possibly more so than the junking of ancient phones that the 3G turn off will cause.
go out and get yourself a new phone
Why not wait until 5G adoption is higher?
Because the only way to expand the 5G network and increase adoption is to use a finite amount of licenced spectrum.
Shutting down 3G frees up a huge amount of spectrum for redeployment on 4G and 5G
Changing phones isn't really that big of a problem tbh, a 3g-era phone gotta be at least 10 years old at this point, and if you do use it as primary device, carriers do offer trade-in discounts for those unlucky guys.
What worries me is the coverage. I have done a round trip between SYD and MEL via Hume highway recently, and despite being one of the busiest road connecting two major cities in this country, there're still long stretches where my phone falls back to 3G. Can't imgaine that being fun if your car breaks down and now 3G is gone too.
there's something that a carrier can configure, a rsrp threshold to search for another band/ drop to 3g, and there was likely 4G coverage where you were, but the rsrp threshold was met to drop to 3G
Just came across this for anyone on Telstra (+ I assume MVNOs) who wants to check their phone compatibility, including the 000 over 4G check.
Just text ‘3’ to 3498, and it will reply with details.
The 3G shutdown should be stopped. I see a lot posters that are defending the shutdown ignore just how much of a mess VOLTE support is, even on 5G phones.
For example, I have a phone that supports 5G and VoLTE, yet Telstra only allows it to make calls over 3G (bar it using Telstra 5G for data)!
You mean the phones manufacturer you purchased has 'limited' its support for VoLTE.
Just the same as companies who have been selling devices since it was made publicly known from 2019 onwards that they where going to shut it off, yet still sold incompatible devices and either didn't advise their buyers or advertise the risks to them.No, the phone supports VoLTE, it works fine with Optus's network (Amaysim), it even reports that it is provisioned for VoLTE, yet Telstra's network refuses to use it and drops back to 3G!
The fact that such a situation exists is proof that VoLTE support is a mess and 3G should not be turned off yet.
From Amaysim (Optus Network) just now:
Hi JV,
Just a quick update about your auto-renew setting. We had told you that your auto-renew would be switched off this Friday 16 August. This won’t be happening just yet as the 3G network switch off has been pushed out to 28 October 2024.Merged from Received FINAL WARNING from Coles about 3G D-Day
Why are Telstra/Optus/Vodafone forcing users to update their phones?
Who knows or cares what 3G/4G/5G is?
We go to a phone company for a working phone service, not "my bad, buy another one"
Is their software or business planning inadequate?
Other OzB posts seem to suggest that at least there are fixes out there.Does the government want the bandwidth back? If so, where is the compensation?
When Takata did their vehicle Airbag recall, they didn't tell owners to buy a new car.My phone has been perfectly OK for years, for calls , sms, wechat, and some photos.
Visiting a shop to work through the options, the, imponderables are 3G/4G/5G vs 4G/5G vs 5G
5G is expensive but how long before we get done over on 4G4GB/128GB, 8GB/2565GB. This configuration seems to be the main Price driver.
Camera OMG.
All I am interested in is the lowest price?
Another one leaving it to the last minute. FFS.
Username checks out
if you need a phone, i got plenty of 4g phone rotting away.
Got a Xiaomi mi 9t. Annoyed with all this too
You should have used Amaysim instead and get $200 voucher to buy very cheap 5G phone from Amaysim like $9 Motorola G54 for example ;-)
All I am interested in is the lowest price?
Question or statement?
Buy a 4g/5g phone and you should be set until the 5g shutdown ( assuming no changes like volte).
Remember the 2G shutdown?
planning inadequate?
Countless articles, forum posts, SMSs, deals. Someone certainly had inadequate planning.
Who knows or cares what 3G/4G/5G is?
You will care if your phone stops working as a phone.
ClickbaitClickboomer
Boomers are smarter than that.
"Clickdrongo" is more like it.
Anyone using an old phone that only connects to 3G will no longer be able to make or receive calls or SMS messages, or use the internet once their service is turned off.
Also some older phones that support 4G, or models bought from overseas, default to 3G when the user dials 000.
The quickest way is to text '3' to '3498' and an automatic reply will tell you if your handset will keep working as normal after the shutdown.
If your device is going to be impacted by the 3G switch off, now's the time for an upgrade.
Good news your device will work as normal after the 3G closure from 28 October 2024, so you dont have to do anything.
Phew thanks for that
I was waiting for the "Where is my compensation?" line.
The telcos' licences are about to end, so they are switching to faster, more efficient spectrum.
3G has been around for 20+ years, and it's now slow and inefficient compared to 4G and 5G.
4G probably has another 10 years of operation, which is probably a lot longer than any handheld will still be working.
CASH IS KING!!!
Yeah I know those ones, have had to replace a few devices myself. More thinking of OPs mates that just bought a 3G only phone