Why are the providers being allowed to shut down 3G like this and why is there not more push-back?
The sheer amount of e-waste this event will generate is inconceivable, what argument could be made to justify it?
The 2G shut-down made sense, as the technology was /very/ old and barely any phones used it at all, but 3G is still all over the place. Why not wait until 5G adoption is higher?
We are already facing a huge jump in the cost of living in recent years, and now people who had bought a cheaper phone (which are the ones most effected by 3G removal) are forced to spend money they likely don't have.
Surely it is a violation of consumer rights to make millions of Australian's products, some which were only bought within the last few years (like mine) useless.
3G Shutdown Justification
Last edited 16/06/2024 - 23:49
Comments
Bring back 2G! I miss my 5kB/s speeds.
WAP all the way baby.
Nothing beats EDGE
CSD!
What relevance does Cardi B have to this thread?
3g has a further range. And 2g had even further. They are decreasing their coverge area.
Yep
If you still have a 3G phone then its certainly time to replace it.OP should understand that the 3G towers are being refarmed to 5G.
This is NOT WASTE!And is OP still using an old IBM floppy disk drive computer?
Ive sill got some old Floppy disks for themNot sure if its the same on the mainland, in Tasmania 3G is being shut down to public use, but will remain active for Police and Army use.
Which isnt great as a lot of places down here are not covered by 4G, where as 3G sort of works…You may not be aware, but many/most phones before 2018-2019, including "4G ready" phones, actually rely on 3G for voice. VoLTE support was patchy and often carrier-specific until only a few years ago.
Given this, it's insane that the telcos are shutting down 3G and killing so many functional handsets.
Yep my Sony 10V is only 6 months old and still current model, and apparently won't work on Telsta once they switch off 3G. Its a 5G phone ffs. Its something to do with it not having the specific VoLTE firmware that only Telstra uses.
@stumo: Yep. That's the real bullshit here that half the posters ITT don't seem to get.
If VoLTE was "open" in the same way 3G was, i.e. not requiring specific SIP config etc, basically nobody would care except for people with truly ancient hardware. It's telling that 4G data was used since ~2013 but VoLTE only became standard years later.
nothing is more secure then a floppy drive now, even an old dos computer is secure it cant be hacked anymore, a good deal of people have forgot
Super secure until you walk past a magnet.
3G shutdown time line was announced in 2017. Thats more than enough time to save up for a new phone.
You're missing the fact that for years, many devices have been sold as 4G devices but still actually rely on 3G for voice calls.
As an example, see the Sony 10V - a "5G" handset that was released June 21 2023 and is still $700+ - which will become useless on certain networks (at least Telstra) when 3G shuts off entirely.
The timeline for the shutdown may be reasonable - but the dodgy marketing tactics used to sell phones since it was announced most definitely are not.
@jollibot: Sony Xperia phones haven't been sold here through offiicall channels for 5 years since they pulled out. you'd have to get it from a grey importer
I agree, however some phones still rely on 3G to make calls, Such as (ancient) iPhone 5, Samsung C5 etc…
And even though 5G is coming, its gotta hurry tf up. My phone currently supports 5G-A/5.5G with theoretical speeds of 10Gbps, Almost every 5G plan in Australia is throttled to 300mbps at most. Also F*** Optus, at home (where I have Wi-Fi) I get 100mbps down, but every where else, I get 0.3mbps, WTF! I'm 14KM away from the second biggest city in Australia, even satellite would be faster and more predictable. having 5 bars of Optus 5G means Jack.you get what you pay for with craptus
@ProlapsedHeinous: Also applies to Telstra…what playground name can you think of for the number 1 provider in Australia?
Switch to boost, Telstra network is much better
@Yorkshire-Man: I'm with a 365 Aldi mobile that ran out of data a week ago so I ran to woolies to grab a $10 amaysim sim, even checked on the website for 5G support. Even though it means jackshi
had to shell out 30bucks for a 20gb recharge on Telstra (ALDI) 4G which is surprisingly stable and fast.
Is floppy disk a euphemism here?
Old IBM ones were 8"
@Littlevu: lol, I once had a fairly old (60s+) woman go to me (working at an IT helpdesk)
"… and I've been working with computers since they were using floppies, and not the small ones either - the big ones"
Which I think we can agree, is hilarious. Me, making polite talk whilst doing something by rote:
"How big?"
"The larger ones, when they were floppy"
Summoning a stoicism I didn't know I had, I asked with a straight face:
"The 5" ones or the 8" ?"
"They get that big?"
Reminder anyone using 4g to turn on VoLTE if it hasn't already, otherwise your phone will not be able to make calls with 3g shut down. VoWifi can also be turned on so you can make call with WiFi.
The problem is that certain operators have a whitelist for devices they allow to use VoLTE.
My mom is visiting Australia and she has a Honor Magic5. Based on its spec, the phone should support VoLTE, but she can't make calls with a prepaid plan I bought her from Kogan, and it turns out that Vodafone probably has a device whitelist, and anything not on their list would not be allowed to use VoLTE.
To use VoLTE with Telstra, phones need to have some Telstra specific MBN settings. However, Optus and Vodafone don't require this. So some phones with work with VoLTE only on Optus or Vodafone.
Excatly why we are moving our household phones to Optus.
Even with the correct MBN files on Global ROM's I can't get our headset to register (IMS). So I got a Optus SIM, a Voda SIM stuck some credit on it and got VoLTE. So we will port. Not gettting new headsets.
BTW, Voda is pretty crappy, but Optus is about as good as Telstra wholesale coverage.
<cries in my near new Sony Experia 10V 5G phone, and near new Boost (Telstra) 365 day prepay.>
This is pretty outrageous.
This can be bypassed by disabling carrier checks
Disabling carrier check for VoLTE: open the dialer and type ##86583##. Then in the same dialer, disable carrier check for VoWiFi by opening ##869434##
Then the options for VoLTE and VoWiFi should be available. I did this for my brother's Redmi 10
This enables VoLTE but Telstra still has a user agent checks for IMS registration (some people think its something within the modems firmware., I have a Global ROM legit, with the Telstra Commercial MBN preset without mods and it doesn't work…what gives). The moment someones mentions MBN then they are already deep into the way a phone actually connects to the VoLTE service.
Lots of discussions on Whirlpool and even more advanced ones on XDA; basically in a nut shell Telstra are doing something stange. People get upset when you call it an 'allow list', but everything seems to point that way, that Telstra have additional checks before they will allow a device to register on their VoLTE service. How come my CN phone works fine with Optus & Voda out of the box but Telstra flat out refuses to work? Yeah, some phone work, but some don't register. Where as Optus/Voda work 100% of the time.
Not sure whats going to happen when tourists visit Australia and get a local SIM on the Telstra network…..do they need to get a handset?
@mrhugo: Oh I didn't know that :/
Guess I'll find out for real whether optus is allowing his phone on september
@mrhugo: Telstra definitely have an 'allow list'. I have a Redmi Note 9pro which supports VoLTE and VoWifi. My Boost SIM in that phone doesn't do either after enabling both. I have a German SIM card in the phone aswell which connects to the Boost/Telstra network here in Australia and surprise, surprise both VoLTE and VoWifi work just fine. I don't even know how they get away with this scam.
@mrhugo: For that reason, I replaced my Poco X3 NFC with the X3 Pro. After disabling the carrier check, it now seems I have working VoLTE. I made a call, and the phone didn't switch to 3G.
@mrhugo: +1
Had a really tough time back in 2020 trying to get VoLTE to work on my Redmi Note 5 Pro. It works on all other carriers here in Aus except Telstra and their MVNOs Boost/etc.Turns out Telstra needs Band 28 on your phone for VoLTE to work and my phone does not have it. From Telstra's website :
Voice calls on 4G need a VoLTE-capable device on 700 MHz (Band 28).
But it looks like even other Xiaomi/Redmi phones which do have Band 28 struggle with VoLTE on Telstra.
Also, with my repeated calls with Boost Customer Care that time around, I had kind-of concluded that if you have 4G Band 7 on your phone, then you may get VoLTE on Telstra/Boost.
Thanks, didn't know that code for VoWiFi on my Redmi Note 9.
I'm on Voda via Felix and am using a Poco F3, which isn't supported by Voda.
I had to figure it out myself, but I was able to use a #code on the handset to force it to VoLTE and it's been solid ever since.
Have they improved WiFi calling much? So many dropped calls when I last had it turned on…
I haven't had any issues at all in the past couple of years. I rely heavily on it at home with virtually no reception
I had that too a while ago, it ended up being my home Wi-Fi that was the cause (an AP had dropped its config). Wi-Fi calling seems to be pretty fussy about signal quality.
Yeah, one of the old ones we had didn't work until we pressed the secret combo to turn on VoLTE. Very sneaky, should be on by default.
Yes that's the problem, when some deivces came out they did not have VoLTE on by default even if they support it, because 2g and 3g was still there back then.
Yeah but, if your phone is like 10 years old and not 4g compatible… Then just buy a new one, it's not that big of a deal. A 4g compatible phone can be had for under $100, if a $100 expense once every 10 years~ is too much for someone then they should probably reconsider owning a phone in the first place.
@Binchicken22: The last sentence was laughable ignorant, not sure what to make of it. May as well tell people to live without a physical address because you can't be arsed to buy a new house when the government tells you it needs to free up your property to build a highway. That's only slight hyperbole these days.
Anyway, i only asked for a couple hundo, cmon don't be a hypocrite mate. Or do you only fangirl when the gov obsoletes a few million functioning devices and makes those owners cough up a few hundo?
@ssfps: The gov isn't obsoleting anything?
Private companies are…
If you wanna start up your own 3G network go right ahead, there is no law against it.
I'm sure there will be plenty of network equipment going cheap… It will definitely be a roaring success I bet, you and the 1000 other people in Australia that are trying to eek another 2 years out of their busted arse old 3G phone whilst simultaneously trying to hold progress back for the rest of us.
you wanna start up your own 3G network go right ahead, there is no law against it.
The ACMA and the licenced spectrum that your network would fall under would disagree with your idea.
@SBOB: Well obviously he'd have to follow the rules that any other network provider does and buy spectrum, I never suggested he wouldn't.
However there is no laws against anyone with the grand idea of buying spectrum and setting up a purely 3G network, it's a great business idea!
At least One Nation are speaking up about it, not many others are.
Until they have your vote, if you think they actually care for you, you are naive.
Lol. Malcolm Roberts. Enough said. The guy is bat-shit crazy.
Vote One Nation.
Explain how one nation would allocate ACMA spectrum different from to mainstream parties?
Please explain *
My 3G has been murdered!
I don't like anything, Except I like Neil Diamond, Yeah…. disco dance disco dance disco nation NOT A CHANCE
Surely we should still be using the horse and cart with that mentality
progress who needs it not us i am still rocking candlepower for lighting
Hey nothing wrong with North Korea
What?
@stealthpaw: While your at it lets drop using emails and use nothing but snail mail Ill start using smoke signals if you like
I agree with the OP.
Once a technical standard has established itself in the marketplace, companies concerned should be required to support it FOREVER. Microsoft should still be supporting Windows 3 and 7 and 8. Similarly with Apple, and providing drivers for new hardware, security upgrades and the like. Companies shouldn't disadvantage anyone who bought any of their products ever, no matter how long ago. Car manufacturers should be forced to keep making spares for their old models whilever any of them are still on the roads. Analog TV stations should still be broadcasting, and showing current content, for anyone who has still got an old style TV. They shouldn't HAVE to buy a new one.
Right?
Exactly right. I am furious that consumers no longer have the choice of telegrams via morse code.
Because you can't stop progress
Cr. Bill Heslop c.1994
It's even more e-waste if we keep supporting everything possible. How many floppy disks and CDs manufacturer still have to print if certain groups still demand the support of their windows 3? Legacy support is very costly. New standards are more capable, we actually use less resource to do the same thing.
By your argument, we should not progress at all because we have to retire the old generations. Let's stick with 486 PCs, 56K modem, any progress will result in e-waste.
floppy discs are still usefull, and
"Let's stick with 486 PCs, 56K modem, any progress will result in e-waste" why not stop intel from releasing a new chip every few months then with negligible improvements
its the same argument with EVs your not going to need them in a city why not just go back to horses its better for the environmentthis argument can go on and on and on
If this brings MSN Messenger back, I might be willing to back you there.
There's some nostalgia.
Modern platforms are mostly better, but I do miss the old "shake" button!
nudge
Meh, wasn't as good as ICQ.
Only 10 days left of ICQ till its gone forever……
Trillian!
Are these fair comparisons, though? When Windows 8 was discontinued, users could still use the technology. They weren't locked out of their computers and forced to buy a newer one. The same goes for phones and cars. The point about old TVs might be fair - but I would argue phones serve very different, and a far more important, roles in our lives. Sometimes in regional Australia phone reception will be terrible - but you'll still have 3G connection, which could be life-saving in an emergency. Your examples would all be ridiculous because they had been completely superseded, but 3G still services a function.
Telstra's explanation is that removing 3G will enable a faster rollout of 5G technology (essentially you can use the same infrastructure currently occupied by 3G tech). That may be true, but I'm a little surprised there isn't a louder argument that that is a Telstra problem. As long as 3G is serving an important public function (and really, given its limitations, that's all it can do - calls, texts and very low speed internet), the government could mandate its continued operation until such a time as the government decides a minimum threshold has been met.
They may not be an enormous community but I'm sure there still be many people, some elderly Australians just getting by, or a homeless person whose lifeline is the 3G phone in their hand, who will be adversely affected by this.
They may not be an enormous community but I'm sure there still be many people, some elderly Australians just getting by, or a homeless person whose lifeline is the 3G phone in their hand, who will be adversely affected by this.
We are talking 200k out of ~26 million active customers on Telstra at the moment who are impacted by this.
5 years notice was given.
The phones on the list are about 10 years old. So far from anything new.
The number 1 phone on the impacted 3G shutdown list costs $40 to replace (its a candy bar phone).
Telstra has been email/sms/snail mailing customers for many months about updating their phones.
I will no longer be able to use my less than four years old 4G Android phone once the 3G network is shut down. There are lots of 4G devices that require 3G for making and receiving calls. I didn't know until a few weeks ago that I would need to replace my phone. I thought it would work, since I had enabled VoLTE, but I was wrong.
@rogerm22: was, by chance, this phone purchased from a different country and not superficially certified for Aus use?
@Nalar: It was purchased from Australia, but is not specifically designed for Australian use. It supports all the 4G bands, does not have the required configuration to use VoLTE with Telstra. It lacks the same information for Optus and Vodafone too, but they don't actually require this information, so VoLTE will work on those networks.
I will no longer be able to use my less than four years old 4G Android phone once the 3G network is shut down
Oh
does not have the required configuration to use VoLTE with Telstra. It lacks the same information for Optus and Vodafone too,
Ahh so a imported phone that you got cheap which wasn't really that cheap after all….
There is a reason it wasn't sold in Australia, as it doesn't support VoLTE and all these networks announced 5 years ago they are shutting down the 3G network so haven't been selling phones that don't support VoLTE for years now.
Are you going to pay for them to continue offering it?
Telstra's explanation is that removing 3G will enable a faster rollout of 5G technology (essentially you can use the same infrastructure currently occupied by 3G tech). That may be true, but I'm a little surprised there isn't a louder argument that that is a Telstra problem.
Its less so the infrastructure (though it will be reused), as it is using the RF spectrum that 3G occupies to do 5G communications.
Its a lower band signal, so it'll have increased range.
That's the text book definition of a reductio ad absurdum argument if i've ever heard one.
Legislating that phone hardware companies support all new devices with say 5 years of security updates sounds pretty reasonable to me. As would a car manufacturer providing parts for at least 10 years on new car sales.
Geez…