Whose Responsibility Is Kitchen Sink Clog? Tenant or Landlord?

pr0o on 01/06/2024 - 14:24

Hey guys,

I live in a rented apartment in NSW since March 2023. Our kitchen sink got clogged on Friday. I tried the usual methods (vinegar, baking soda, boiling water etc), but it did not unclog. I then opened the U section under the sink, cleaned it, found that this is all clear but the kitchen sing was still clogged. I felt like the job is above my paygrade, so I let my real estate agent know on Friday night. Saturday morning, they replied and sent the plumber in, fixed the sink by unclogging it from the pipe running downstairs. Took plumber 30 mins, he took a lot of the pictures and said that it could be due to oil / grease. REA did not talk about charges, bills etc but I emailed them informing that it has been fixed and hopefully it will not be blocked again.

We always take care of the sink, ensure no oil goes in it but obviously when you wash the pan, some oil may get in the sink and it might have build up over the time.

Now, I am worried that REA might send me the charges for the plumber and they would charge hell a lot, when I could have hired the plumber from Airtasker in decent amount.

What do you think who was responsible here? and whether I could be asked to pay for the plumber?

Thanks.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • Sye on 01/06/2024 - 14:28

    Probably get charged $420

  • AustriaBargain on 01/06/2024 - 14:30
    +15

    They can't prove it was your grease. Though if it happens again, they could infer it. Commercial kitchens have grease traps that are easily accessible but smell foul and are hard to clean, easily the worst job in the kitchen. At home though you should pour your grease and other shit in your bin, not the sink.

    • Loopholio on 02/06/2024 - 11:02
      +13

      ^This. After cooking let the pots and pans cool then wipe them out with a paper towel before rinsing them.

      Also, don't dump coffee grounds down the sink. They bind with the oil to make your very own mini fatberg.

      • CalmLemons on 03/06/2024 - 14:40
        +1

        If it's inside the house, it's mostly either oil from the tenants or flushable wipes (that aren't flushable) - that is tenants.
        As per two of my plumbers who do rental work exclusively.

        Grease should never be washed down the pipes, wipe with towel and chuck in bin. It's worse in colder months because the oil solidifies quicker before it can be washed down further in the line where pressure will push it out.

        Other than that if external its tree roots and that is landlord.

  • brad1-8tsi on 01/06/2024 - 14:31
    +25

    If it's from what's gone down the sink it's the tenants issue, particularly if they've lived there a few years.
    If it's because of root ingress into the pipes or broken pipes, etc it's the landlords issue.

    • pr0o on 01/06/2024 - 14:34
      +2

      The issue is how can they prove it was something we poured in. We have been in this property for 15 months, never called them for any issues. But me and my partner are confused whether it was us or if the pipes require regular maintenance and when was last one done on these pipes.

      • brad1-8tsi on 01/06/2024 - 14:47
        +6

        was it a pipe that is only supplied from your property or was it downstream of a branch pipe?

        At our block we have 4 apartments go into 2 pipes then into one. Unit 2 had their sink backing up. Unit 3 had no problems. We got the Drain Addict to come in and it was obvious that the blockage was upstream of the T-connection and it was U2s problem. They'd been there 3 years. They were surprised as they don't cook fried food or have fatty stuff. (They are worth a fortune so they just paid it. It was like beer money for him)

        According to the Drain Addict it can even be caused by undissolved powder laundry detergent or dishwasher tablets. It's a "stuff happens" problem.

        Maybe argue your case and the limited time you've been there and offer to pay a small portion?

        I'd suggest you buy a small jar of Diggers crystal caustic soda and treat all the drains and toilet every 3 months. Careful, it's nasty stuff.

        • marcozmitch on 04/06/2024 - 11:29
          -1

          Do not pay it. Do not offer to pay some or even a portion
          It is the Landlord's responsiblity.
          Advise plumbing problems early in the week, well before a week-end if possible.
          Take all reasonable (and extra steps) to keep the drains clear.
          Sometimes roots from trees find their way into a cracked pipe.
          Then the pipe gets root-bound.
          The landlord also has property insurance for major damages that may happen accidentally.
          These damages can happen as a result of storm damage or other incidents, property age etc.
          (I am the son of a Landlord).

          • marcozmitch on 05/06/2024 - 05:14

            @marcozmitch: I am not sure why I am negged.
            Blockages can occur from other people's fat etc., clogging the service (external to property) line.
            This requires the Utiliy comapny to fix this.
            One time I saw a massive slug (size of an orange) that had lived in a grease trap for 10 or more years.
            But tenants can cause a clog from bottom wipes or similar.
            Certainly one time is acceptable, but next time the tenant may be due to pay if they caused it.
            They have special cameras/jet cleaning devices they can send done that also unblock major problems.
            Sometimes old places have ceramic pipes and cast iron pipes: all of which fail after a certain length of time.
            The only remedy is to replace them with plastic pipes.
            Sometimes a sanitary napkin can also cause a block.

      • AngoraFish on 01/06/2024 - 15:00
        +5

        In terms of proving it, the plumber will offer an opinion as to the source of the blockage, but realistically, 99 times out of 100 it is the landlord's problem.

        As a tenant, you are entitled to have functioning drains capable of accommodating all of the things that one would normally and legally expect to go down a drain hole.

        • wanj on 01/06/2024 - 21:53
          +2

          Exactly, the plumber will find out the cause, and then we'll know if its tenant or landlord that will pay.

          Get ready for a surprise.

        • SlickMick on 02/06/2024 - 15:06
          +2

          Yep, and if you put anything else down there, you're creating a problem you need to remedy

        • Widget on 02/06/2024 - 21:54
          +3

          but realistically, 99 times out of 100 it is the landlord's problem.

          Doubt it. If it's a fault with the pipes itself such as damage from tree roots, cracks from aging or mineral buildup (rust, calcium etc..) sure. But I'm willing to bet 9/10, the drain is blocked because people use it as a garbage disposal.

          As a tenant, you are entitled to have functioning drains…

          Sure, but a drain is nothing more than a pipe. If it's not damaged from the above mentioned, then it's unlikely to not function. As for,

          capable of accommodating all of the things that one would normally and legally expect to go down a drain hole.

          water. dirty or clean. That's it. No food, no oil, no hair, just water. If tenants are putting food or oil, even unfiltered dirty water that may contain bits of food, then that's on them & they should pay to have it unclogged.

          • AngoraFish on 02/06/2024 - 22:02
            +5

            @Widget: You're a landlord, aren't you.

            • Widget on 02/06/2024 - 22:03

              @AngoraFish: Negative. I am neither a landlord or property owner.

              • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/06/2024 - 22:08
                +3

                @Widget: So renters aren't allowed to handwash dishes eh?

                • Widget on 02/06/2024 - 22:12
                  +4

                  @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Believe it or not, you can actually buy strainers for the kitchen/shower drain that capture food/hair preventing it from going down the drain.
                  As for oil, it should be drained into a container (if there's a lot) and wiped with paper towel before washing it up in the sink.

                  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 03/06/2024 - 17:22

                    @Widget: I assume the Landlord has installed this on every drain then? Including the washing machine drain?

                    Sounds like a very fragile waste system where you live.

                    • Widget on 03/06/2024 - 18:25
                      +1

                      @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Drainage holes (sink, bath, shower pan) don't generally come with strainers to prevent hair/food. They have larger ones built in to stop large items falling in, but the strainers I'm referring to slip in/over the drain hole. They're removable, like plugs are.

                      Here's an example of what you can get for the kitchen sink - https://www.bigw.com.au/product/wiltshire-sink-strainer-stai…

                      Here's an example of what you can get for the bathroom drain for hair - https://www.bigw.com.au/product/5-pack-hair-catcher-durable-…

                      Landlords shouldn't have to install any filters on the drains. It's the tenants responsibility to not put stuff down them that's not suppose to go down them.

                      I don't know what you mean by this,

                      Sounds like a very fragile waste system where you live.

                      I have no issues with waste water here…

      • Roddi on 01/06/2024 - 22:43
        +6

        Pipes shouldn't need maintenance if you're not putting a lot of oil down them.
        After shallow or deep frying I don't pour the pan oil down the drain and have never had a problem (I actually store the old oil and take it to council for recycling once a year, along with other things like ewaste).
        No problem in 10 years at my house.

        Previous tenants could have partially clogged the pipes and it just became a problem with you.
        Landlord can't prove it's all your fault.

      • SlickMick on 02/06/2024 - 15:04
        +8

        Do you suspect someone's been sneaking in and pouring grease down your drain? I'd have thought 15 months clog-free would suggest it wasn't previous tenant??

      • GrueHunter on 02/06/2024 - 20:38
        +2

        So it was fine for 15 months, but then suddenly it wasn't, but it wasn't you?

        Who else would it be? Did somebody break into your house and tip something down the sink? Or are you claiming there was a blockage there that somehow wasn't an issue for 15 months and then suddenly, for no reason, and certainly not because of anything you did, it became an issue?

      • TrustNoBody on 02/06/2024 - 22:57

        my ex has been in his unit 16 years and only last week got a plumber in for blocked kitchen sink so if that’s the case he would if had blockage before now as the pipes never get regular maintenance cleans ect

      • kaleidoscope on 03/06/2024 - 11:49

        We have been in this property for 15 months

        It all depends on the plumber's conclusion on what caused the incident. If it's found to be things that went down through the sink you can be charged as 15 months is a reasonable amount of time. If the cause was due to some other things such as tree roots or broken pipe underneath, it is landlord's responsibility.

      • justworld on 03/06/2024 - 13:24

        Why is the onus on them to prove? The onus is equally on you to prove your point. There's no law saying that any cost that arises is automatically the landlord's burden. So in the absence of that law, one party doesn't bear the onus.

        Really depends how much the landlord likes you as a tenant if you're going to dispute the issue.

  • Sye on 01/06/2024 - 14:36
    +8

    They should pay you for that Grease

    • fantombloo on 01/06/2024 - 20:15
      +5

      One of the most memorable Simpsons episodes IMO. Can't understand why this is being downvoted.

      • mapax on 01/06/2024 - 20:39
        +5

        It probably hits too close to home for a lot of OzBargainers…

        • Mugsy on 02/06/2024 - 07:54

          Boomers, Gen X and early Ys might be outnumbered by Gen Z, Alphas and the younger Ys… at least on this thread.

          Or there may be a lot of lazy folk who didn't bother to click on the link to grasp the brilliance of that joke… or they think we're PC thugs…

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XggiqelZ7Y

      • JIMB0 on 02/06/2024 - 09:15

        People have no sense of humour so downvote just because they don't get it.

  • liquornoodlescabbage on 01/06/2024 - 14:43
    +6

    Had the same thing happen at a sharehouse, landlord covered it but warned us if it happened again they'd have to charge us. I think as long as it isn't frequest (neglect from the tenant) it should just be covered under general maintenance.

  • BOGOF on 01/06/2024 - 15:00
    +12

    The landlord is responsible for unblocking/unclogging the pipes, unless it was caused directly by the tenant, such as intentionally putting objects in the drain that are clearly not supposed to.
    You did the right thing by cleaning what you could and notifying the REA.

    You will be fine.

    • gromit on 02/06/2024 - 21:34
      +3

      Well most would say grease and oil definitely come under the category of "things that a tennant should not be putting down the drain"

    • Widget on 02/06/2024 - 22:00

      unless it was caused directly by the tenant, such as intentionally putting objects in the drain that are clearly not supposed to.

      Like food, grease & hair.

  • onetwothreefour on 01/06/2024 - 18:49
    +3

    Anyone else a fan of the Drain Cleaning Australia YouTube channel?

    • Charlieeee on 01/06/2024 - 19:42
      +2

      Drain Addict too!

  • Clambabula on 01/06/2024 - 21:10
    +5

    Was it really your retirement grease?

  • Save 50 Cent on 02/06/2024 - 00:32
    +1

    I bought some drain cleaning gel from bunnings the last (and only time) the kitchen sink got clogged and did the job. Try that first next time before calling a plumber :)

  • alxr0101 on 02/06/2024 - 07:43
    -1

    Body corporate….it's not within the apartment.

    Refuse any charges if invoiced and advise as above.

    • alxr0101 on 03/06/2024 - 07:39

      I get negged for providing accurate, relevant, reasonable advice, based on limited info provided.

      It's an apartment…the blockage occurred within common property.

      Some ozbargainers are just weird.

  • 82norm on 02/06/2024 - 07:51
    -1

    Tenant should prepare themselves for the bill.

  • Hardlyworkin on 02/06/2024 - 08:36
    -3

    Landlord. You tried to fix it at least though it required a professional.

  • Bob Svargis on 02/06/2024 - 09:10
    +6

    You might get away with it one time, but if it happens again, and if it's caused by fat, it's no one's fault but yours.

    Don't put fat and oil down the sink. Every 2 weeks, fill the sink up with really hot water using the plug and let it run through the pipes. This is a tip from my plumber. It should help dissolve or dislodge fat deposits.

  • kiitos on 02/06/2024 - 09:11
    +2

    Do you pour used cooking oil or grease down the sink? If so, that could clog up the drains, better to put it in an old jar and put it in the general rubbish.

    Also, don't leave greasy water in the sink to get cold before draining it as it's more likely to stick to the pipes than when draining hot water.

  • jrvb42 on 02/06/2024 - 09:58
    +3

    Gee, if you've been there 12 months it's pretty obvious the drain wasn't clogged when you moved in.
    Also obvious it must be caused by your use (unless you think the landlord is sneaking in and putting stuff down the drain to sabotage you).
    So pretty obvious it's a you thing (morally if not legally) even if you are careful not to put oil down there.
    Only exception would be intrusion of roots from plants or similar causing the blockage.
    Why is there even a need to ask, or bother the rea or us?
    Stand back, look at the situation, and work out the right thing to do.
    (Neither a landlord nor a tenant, so no dog in this fight)

    • 2esc on 02/06/2024 - 11:15
      +4

      A pipe can be 99% blocked and still work.

      A month into owning our place i went and did preventative maintenance and opened up the exterior cap of the grey water i found one 80% blocked a solidified mass a long time in the making it could have been 20 years in the making which i cleared by garden hose.
      In reality it may not have fully blocked up for another 10 years.
      You might be surprised what you find in your houses grey water pipes.

      • SlickMick on 02/06/2024 - 15:12

        This is true - the previous tenant could have 80% clogged the drain. But unless we're going to require tenants to clear drains at end of tenancy, it's just a risk a tenant takes. Whoever does the final clogging gets to do the unclogging.

        • Widget on 02/06/2024 - 22:10
          +1

          the previous tenant could have 80% clogged the drain.

          The plumber who unblocked should be able to tell the age (roughly) of the contaminants that caused the blockage, no?

      • Widget on 02/06/2024 - 22:10

        i went and did preventative maintenance and opened up the exterior cap of the grey water

        Curious, what and where is that usually located ?

    • LFO on 02/06/2024 - 11:34

      Similar scenario:

      The hot water system was working 20 months ago, now it has busted and no longer working.

      Tenant has been using "hot water" quite a lot as they are a very clean and hygienic family.

      Whose fault is it?

      • SlickMick on 02/06/2024 - 15:14
        +1

        Similar because tenant clogged a pipe in the hotwater system??

        • LFO on 02/06/2024 - 17:10

          Similar for using it.

          Tenant was using the drain and then become clogged vs Tenant was using the hot water and then there was none.

          Change hot water system scenario to hot water taps scenario: Tenants too much use of hot water taps caused failure.

    • lunchbox99 on 04/06/2024 - 17:23

      Not true.

      My neighbour bought their house and had drainage problems. Turns out the old pipes became so corroded they were totally clogged with rust. My property had drainage issues from root ingress. Both of these issues would be emergent and the landlords responsibility if they were rentals.

      I mean, do people think properties never ever need plumbing maintenance unless there has been malicious or negligent behaviour? Why do you think plumbers exist?

  • kiwijunglist on 02/06/2024 - 10:48

    Not sure about Australia, but in NZ they wouldn't be able to pass that charge into a tenant. It wouldn't fly in the tenancy tribunal. The landlord is stuck with the cost.

  • 2esc on 02/06/2024 - 11:06
    +3

    Blockage can occur slowly over many years as your only been there since 2023 and being careful its not your fault.

  • LFO on 02/06/2024 - 11:29

    No news is good news

    Rejoice until that changes.

  • CommuterPolluter on 02/06/2024 - 17:19
    -2

    If they send you a bill tell them to stick it where the sun don’t shine. Paying for maintenance is the landlord’s responsibility.

  • t_c on 02/06/2024 - 17:21

    Weekend rates, ouch. I wouldnt be surprised if its around 1k.

  • Herbse on 02/06/2024 - 18:04
    +1

    Oil doesn't go into the sink. Even if it doesn't clog your drain, it will eventually get cold and clog up somewhere. Look up fatbergs.

    Pour excess oil into a jar and throw the jar out when it's full

  • Chiyoko on 02/06/2024 - 18:34
    +1

    Boiling water, vinegar, caustic soda does not really work well for unblocking those types of stubborn blockages.

    The trick is actually to fill up the sinks in every part of the apartment with water including the bathtub and then flush the toilet, then release all the water at the time starting from the largest water source. This usually blows the blockage down far enough that it is no longer your problem, i.e. to your neighbours or to apartments beneath.

    Basically the principle works because it's a smaller scale version of jet blasting the drain.

    You do not mention whether you are at the bottom of the apartments or at the top, as that part of the pipe could be shared. If you got the raw end of the stick, it's tough luck.

    If the blockage was close to your wall next to the kitchen sink but slightly afterwards, you probably should have tried a drain snake… Only you know these facts.

  • kzrocky on 02/06/2024 - 18:38
    +2

    Cheapo trick for blockages (especially dunnies)
    1. Squeeze half a bottle of dishwasher liquid into the bowl (personal favourite Morning fresh)
    2. Boil 4 litres of water in a pot
    3. Pour in the pot of boiling water
    4. Wait 1 minute
    5. Flush
    6. Repeat in an hour if it didnt unblock.

    This works everytime Ive had a blockage

    • noz on 03/06/2024 - 11:31

      I think I've read that hot water can cause porcelain to crack

      • mapax on 03/06/2024 - 12:25
        +2

        You pour a couple of litres of reasonably warm but not hot water around the bowel first to stop it cracking.

  • TEER3X on 02/06/2024 - 22:01
    +1

    Doubt you're getting charged for that. Happy to take bets.

    • Widget on 02/06/2024 - 22:19

      Think it'll depend on what the plumber says & the REA.

  • bashar20 on 03/06/2024 - 07:05

    Don’t worry. It will pass.

  • DarkOz on 03/06/2024 - 09:12

    If the clog was within your apartment it should be on you as you were the only one who using it. You could blame it on the previous tenant but you need some proof from the plumber's report.

    A year ago, we reported a bathroom clog to our REA and a plumber was arranged. We were prepared to pay the bill had it been an internal clog but the plumber assessed the clog to be from the shared downpipe (without proof that we or other tenants did it) so Strata took care of it.

  • SanguinarySeraph on 03/06/2024 - 09:49

    A lot of different opinions, but It's actually pretty straightforward:
    The owner of the pipes is responsible for ensuring they are functional and free from defects (cracks, leaks etc.)
    The tenant is responsible for the usage of the pipes, i.e. what goes down them.

    If there's a leak or tree root or anything that has caused the pipes to not function correctly, then the landlord would be liable, but if it's a blockage caused by oil, food scraps etc then the tenant is.

    It's the same basic premise as buying a phone with a 'manufacturer's warranty' - they'll cover it if there's an inherent failure, but if you drop it or abuse it and 'it suddenly stopped working', it's on you.

    I'll concede that it's a bit tougher in the case of 'this was caused by the previous tenant' but that comes down to what you can prove. If you can prove it, then you could take the previous tenants to court (not that it would be worth it), but the reality is, it's just one of those 'suck it up' things. If you're particularly concerned, you could spend ~$10 on some preventative cleaning for peace of mind (maybe this should be standard as part of an exit/bond clean?).

    All of that being said, it'll depend on how the plumber phrases it to the Property Manager as to whom they'll look to charge for it. A lot of the time they'll just pass the bill on to the Landlord unless they get pushback, which again comes down to the burden of proof thing. A landlord can argue, but if the plumber has advised that it wasn't the tenant, they're pretty much stuck with the bill.

  • Jolakot on 03/06/2024 - 10:40
    +1

    First time, landlord - can't prove what the last tenant did/didn't put in the sink unless it's a brand new kitchen.

    Second+ time, tenant if it was caused by grease buildup or dropping stuff in, landlord otherwise.

    • JimB on 03/06/2024 - 14:04

      Brand new kitchen is connected to an old waste pipe.

  • ttt888 on 03/06/2024 - 12:05

    Normally I would have negative views on tenants in such scenario. But at least you are the better ones and have at least open up the ubend and you only been staying there for 12 mths I think you should not be paying the charges.

    If it happens again and if it's due to grease then would be Tenants to pay.

  • JimB on 03/06/2024 - 14:28

    Wasn't the sink but the toilet.

    Tenant has been there for over 3 years so who knows when the blockage started.

    $500 and a CCTV camera later, the plumber doesn't know what caused it but at least it's fixed.

    If there is another blockage in future. I may charge the tenant depending on what causes the new blockage.

  • Name on 03/06/2024 - 15:43
    +1

    As a landlord myself, I wouldn't charge you.

    You've had no issues in 15 months and the plumber report says grease / oils or something which is vague enough to not specifically be you that caused it (build up over years is what I'd be reading from that). If it was flushable wipes or something more solid that caused an instant clog - then yes, I'd pass the bill onto you.

  • Antikythera on 03/06/2024 - 15:55

    hired the plumber from Airtasker

    yeah that guy isn't a plumber

  • DV0993 on 03/06/2024 - 16:27
    +1

    As a Landlord - Landlord.
    I would tell you to have a go with a plunger if you had one and explain how to do it. Failing that, I would come down myself and plunge it; failing that, plumber at my expense and some stern (within reason) words about throwing stuff in the sink and toilets.

  • Hangryuman on 03/06/2024 - 18:04

    if the blockage was outside your unit and in common property it would be strata responsibility to fix, especially if the blockage was after a connection from another unit, which would remove any proof that it was your grease or your fault/responsibility.

    if it was from only your unit, then you could expect a lot of huffing and puffing from the owner. And a notice about don't put grease down the sink.

    When I have oil from the oven or air fryer, these days I might use kitchen paper towel (CHOICE consumer magazine recommended VIVA which we use) - leave hot pans to cool enough after eating, but before it solidifies, wipe it out with used tissues if you have a blow your nose bin handy - that's no cost - chuck in bin, done.

  • Munki Kundi on 03/06/2024 - 22:39
    +1

    Does stuff like Drano work for kitchen grease blockages? I am always skeptical putting stuff like drano down the pipes, I am petrified that it may do damage and damaged pipes mean a big hole in your pocket towards the plumber.

    Anyone has experience with drano?

    • IdBuyThat4aDollar on 04/06/2024 - 09:20
      +2

      Not sure about grease blockages, but I've used drano on bathroom basins. No issues - just don't leave it in for longer than 30 mins as per the directions

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