Charged for Feeding in Solar Power

Euphemistic on 16/05/2024 - 16:49
Last edited 16/05/2024 - 16:55

Solar panel owners slugged by Ausgrid for generating too much power https://www.smh.com.au/environment/sustainability/solar-pane…

https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/two-way-pricing-electric…

Ausgrid is going to implement charging residential owners for exporting solar power between 10am and 3pm, then give you 2c/kwh after 4. Meanwhile they'll charge anyone using power 30-50c/kwh for using power.

While you shouldn't install solar to get feed in tariffs, getting charged becasue ausgrid can't work out the grid and users to use solar power seems a bit rich. I understand the wholesale prices can go negative during sunny days, it this is ridiculous in times of "cost of living crisis"

Looks like they are pushing owners to get batteries.

I was planning on upping my solar system with more panels, but might delay that now and go for battery instead.

What will you do?

Home & Garden Solar Energy System

Comments

    • smalltime0 on 18/05/2024 - 00:24

      Ausgrid is charging your retailer that, its up to your retailer to do whatever they're going to do.

      • RockyRaccoon on 18/05/2024 - 07:32

        We know what will really happen and so does Ausgrid.

        Their spokesperson said…

        The spokesperson said the new two-way tariff would encourage households to use energy in the middle of the day and export it to the grid at night, and help Ausgrid avoid costly network upgrades.

        "Encourage" by saving the charge. If the retailer doesnt then there's no encouragement

        • CyberMurning on 18/05/2024 - 09:13

          I dont get it. Without encouragement it is logical that people is using more during daytime already, because they can use energy produced by panel.

          And how to export at night when there is no sun? Are they stupid or what….

  • CyberMurning on 16/05/2024 - 18:30
    +1

    Can we change from ausgrid to others?

    • pegaxs on 16/05/2024 - 22:35
      +1

      No. Aus grid is the supplier, not the retailer. Aus grid own the lines and the infrastructure. They don’t sell to end users. You can change retailers though.

  • BewareOfThe Dog on 16/05/2024 - 22:47
    +2

    On the other hand, ovo are doing free power on evplans 11till1400, but rorting users 1400 to 2000.
    Is this due to our expanding population?
    Slow immigration and population growth.l, rather than force people to buy batteries.

    • smalltime0 on 18/05/2024 - 00:25

      No. Its because power usage increases from about 3pm, peaking around 6pm, before going down at around 10pm.

  • CyberMurning on 16/05/2024 - 23:22

    Currently retailers will have "solar plan" which has feed in tariff.

    Will changing our plan to the non solar is better when this ridiculous policy starts?

  • GnarlyKnuckles on 17/05/2024 - 01:39
    -5

    'What will you do?'

    For the same reasons you have outlined above, of course I (and anyone else with the sense/money required) will get a battery.

    After the majority of solar panel owners in Australia have paid for batteries though, watch how quick Labor will be to attempt to 'tax' battery owners in some way shape or form (like the VIC electric car owner 'per km tax', which was eventually deemed illegal by the courts). Labor will fold instantly to 'pressure' from electricity companies complaining about the fact that they can no longer make money from average Aussie households.

    • Randolph Duke on 19/05/2024 - 08:35
      -2

      You’ve convinced me, I’m definitely not biting for Labor now that @GnarlyKnuckles has made up a a fanciful Labor policy in their head!! Think of all the Labor policies Gnarles could make up!!

  • joshash on 17/05/2024 - 07:41
    +4

    This was always going to happen.
    In summer I can generate around 45 kWh from my panels.
    That's a lot of battery. The battery technology is simply not there

    • Euphemistic on 17/05/2024 - 07:52
      +2

      I think that battey technology is developed enough, but the cost is too high. In reality they need to work harder on changing the grid to use the avaiable power rather than looking to storage.

      The government resisted renewables for too long so their buddies at the coal companies could keep profiting. So now we are trying to catch up and consumers that could see that solar is a splution are gping to pay.

      • joshash on 17/05/2024 - 08:01
        +1

        Yeah, I'd need 3 powerwalls to store the energy I generate in summer, and it's only a 6kw system
        That would be around $45,000.
        If there was a cheap way of storing solar generated electricity everyone would be doing it.
        Heck, the providers would be doing it themselves.
        There isn't.

        • HelpMeiCantSee on 17/05/2024 - 09:52
          +1

          I’d need 12 or more… this has always been on the cards, as the energy companies have been crying poor about not being able to bleed money out of solar users for years.

          Best solution is to disconnect from the grid, but sadly that’s expensive as hell too

      • furyou on 17/05/2024 - 18:45
        -1

        Use any calculator and batteries take 30-50 years to pay for itself. And come with 10yr warranty.

        • Euphemistic on 17/05/2024 - 19:02
          +2

          Calculations ivw seem were more like 15y for payback. Plus warranty is not end of life, just when its out of warranty.

          • furyou on 19/05/2024 - 17:49

            @Euphemistic: I'm using the solarquotes calc a year or 2 ago.

            Yeah 10yr warranty and I think 15-20yr end of life? So basically if it's a 15 year payoff it won't be a 15 year payoff because it will be not working 100% by that time.

            But in the end there's a cost of living crisis why would I throw money into a system where I would break even after 15 years? I could put it in a 5% savings account and be ahead.

            To me I don't think it makes sense. And that's the best case scenario if there isn't some fault in it burns your house down.

            • Euphemistic on 19/05/2024 - 18:21

              @furyou: So your original 30-50 year payback is just a nonsense number to scare anyone who doesnt know better? Such a stupid way to make a point. Just spreads misinformation.

              • furyou on 19/05/2024 - 21:22

                @Euphemistic: I'm using the solarquotes calc a year or 2 ago. It said 30-50 year payback.

                YOU said 15y for payback.

                I said even for YOUR 15 payback it's bs.

                Are you happy?
                Don't fall off your pedestal on your way out.

                • Euphemistic on 20/05/2024 - 08:23

                  @furyou: And yet somehow you turned your 30-50y to 15-20y when you were called on it. I still call 30-50y a BS figure. Either that, or the calcs you got were based on something inherently incorrect.

        • yoquierotaco on 21/05/2024 - 14:14

          solarquote calculator here to add a battery to an existing solar, estimates ~20 year with some assumptions: https://link.solarquot.es/3rfwun2e

          The calculator wasn't designed with this scenario, but it does give a range. It's long (twice the standard 10 year warranty for batteries), but not 30-50 year long unless you live in a bad area so solar or you have non-ideal solar setup

      • diceman99 on 18/05/2024 - 00:09

        You may want to go back Mars. Go back to your planet

    • Cliche Guevara on 17/05/2024 - 08:05

      Buy an EV - best value battery storage you can get.

      • FezMonkey on 17/05/2024 - 08:56

        Is there a way to configure the charger so that it only uses solar power and stops charging if it stops receiving solar?

        • noz on 17/05/2024 - 09:05
          +3

          Yes, check out ChargeHQ. Works wonderfully. There's a free alternative called EVCC, but I believe it requires you to self-host and fiddle around a bit more.
          Some EV chargers (or EVSE's to be technically accurate) have solar charging capability built in, such as the Zappi charger or the Fronius one.

      • Euphemistic on 17/05/2024 - 09:15
        +2

        Only issue with that is that you need your EV to be at home when the sun shines. Anyone who commutes for a daytime job cant do that.

      • LFO on 17/05/2024 - 09:47
        +7

        Buy an EV - best value battery storage you can get.

        Interesting point:

        If an EV can have a ~50kW battery and still sell for under ~$60K why on earth a 50kW battery by itself is about similar?

        • ocular on 20/05/2024 - 10:51
          +1

          4 of these would give you 60kWh for $43K, pick up SE QLD, cylindrical cells, LiFePO4, service life 15-20 yrs.

          • LFO on 26/05/2024 - 10:53

            @ocular: Very interesting, thank you!

            For off grid seems quite a solution.

            Not sure if it is/will be cost effective for a suburban dwelling still connected to the grid (paying daily charges).
            $43K is a big fat lot of kilowatts …
            Just my initial feelings.

    • GnarlyKnuckles on 19/05/2024 - 15:26

      You only need to store enough to get you through the night, to the next day, generally speaking. No one aims to store all the power they generate. What would be the point in that/that notion is totally ludicrous. Put another way, you only need to store enough to ensure that you never (or very seldomly) need to 'draw down' from the grid.

      • LFO on 24/05/2024 - 16:48

        to the next day

        Problem is "next day" could be cloudy/rainy so will get little juice.
        Need backup storage. Lots of it.

  • bluyu2 on 17/05/2024 - 08:43
    +5

    More Community Batteries need to be installed by the networks to soak up the excess solar during the day. More incentives should also be provided for rooftop solar PV owners to install batteries.

    • noz on 17/05/2024 - 12:10
      +2

      Don't know if true or not, but I have heard that community batteries in real world aren't any real benefit compared to getting them yourselves, and in fact is worse
      https://switchedon.reneweconomy.com.au/content/community-bat…

      • CommuterPolluter on 20/05/2024 - 13:00

        Sounds like that’s just a (typical) matter of petty graft. From a technical viewpoint, there are definite benefits from having these centralised rather than located in homes. The biggest benefit is fire safety. There’s only very minor benefits from scaling as BESS are very modular.

        On the other hand, by having them privately owned you minimise interaction with the public electricity grid so that’s an administrative win.

  • noz on 17/05/2024 - 09:02
    +4

    Some of you have mentioned export limiting, but you may be misunderstanding thinking that this 1.2 charge replaces the FIT. At this stage you will usually still be better off to continue to export than to limit it, because this new charge is deducted from the FIT. So, say if your FIT is currently 5c, then your net FIT will be 5c - 1.2c = 3.8c (assuming the 1.2c is passed on to you from the retailer). Not saying the FIT is great, but you will still be better off exporting than not exporting (unless of course you're on a FIT that is less then 1.2c..!)
    If you do want to limit export at specific times, you can do so if you have the right inverter. I have Fronius inverters and use Home Assistant. As I am on Amber without batteries, I use HA to control solar export in an automated fashion since I am often exposed to negative FIT.

    • masadav on 17/05/2024 - 09:15

      any chance you have published/posted any of this setup somewhere?

    • Euphemistic on 17/05/2024 - 09:17
      -1

      That makes a little more sense. It did occur to me that ausgrid isnt a retailer so how could they charge you directly? Wonder how it affects solar farms etc.

    • SBOB on 19/05/2024 - 14:35
      +1

      Some of you have mentioned export limiting, but you may be misunderstanding thinking that this 1.2 charge replaces the FIT. At this stage you will usually still be better off to continue to export than to limit it, because this new charge is deducted from the FIT.

      yep, its clear most articles and 'shock jock' reportings on this arent accurately describing the 'change', but its an easy topic to get 'rile up' the readers/listeners.

      Its moving from a fixed "FIT" rate, regardless of the time of the day, to a staggered or 'time of day' based FIT, where during some times the FIT will be lower than others. Not great, but also not 'charging you for exporting'.
      And its at the distributor level, how each retailer will handle that for their consumer offer will vary, in the same way as how each retailer currently handles Ausgrids current TOU electricity usage rates.
      Some follow Ausgrids lack of peak rate during the lower season months of the year (April/May, Setp/Oct), while others (like AGL) keep the same TOU rates throughout the year.

  • lgacb08 on 17/05/2024 - 09:28
    +3

    That's just wholesale rate ausgrid put on retailers, doesn't mean all retailers will pass on the charges to end user like they've been doing with demand charge at the moment. All you have to do is shop around for the one most suitable to your use case.

    • furyou on 17/05/2024 - 18:48

      You must be kidding. Every single retailer has blamed their things on ausgrid.

      " we would love to give you a flat rate plan but AG gives us your data in different times of the day and we are unable to charge you the same rate for all different time periods"

      • lgacb08 on 17/05/2024 - 20:29

        I'm not, ausgrid has been doing the dirty for 5 years and there are still retailers that can work to your advantage. It's all smoke and mirror because solar uptake in NSW is no where near as Vic, SA or WA so it is still possible to game the system. Ausgrid just came up with the new game because their demand charge bullshit is not working as they want. It's only until governments start cracking down on retailers and make them do a bunch of consumer protection measures like vic did then the game will get harder for the smart users.

        • furyou on 17/05/2024 - 21:23

          In NSW.

          I keep trying To go on a flat rate plan and every time I call a provider they say yes we can put you on the flat rate plan.
          Then they put me on the time of use and they say that Ausgrid say all plans have to be time of use

          I tell them they could simply charge me the flat rate plan rates for each of the different times.

          I have not found any way.

          • lgacb08 on 19/05/2024 - 00:06

            @furyou: You gotta read the fine print, every retailer does their own interpretation of Ausgrid pricing schedule to suit their own agenda and you have to work out the one that suits you most. Plenty of them do flat rate, if your have smart meter Ausgrid will pass on time of use data to retailer to charge you but what rate they apply is at their own discretion. You have to ask them the specific rate for each hour. Don't ever take use of the ambiguous Time of Use or Flat rate to make your decision, you have to check what are the number.

            • furyou on 19/05/2024 - 09:43

              @lgacb08: Will basically a few times I called them saying what rate can I get at my address and they said yes you can use this flat rate and then once I joined they say ag is giving them time of use.
              So I say fine just charge me the flat rate in all the periods and they say no they have to put me on the time of use plans.
              I've not found a single company that will do it

              • RockyRaccoon on 19/05/2024 - 21:27

                @furyou: Correct. Especially with Ausgrid.

                Only those grandfathered can have a Flatrate with Solar. If they switch to TOU, then they cant switch back.

                We have flatrate with Solar, but a number of friends have tried everyway to get flatrate, even going energy regulator and get nowhere. They say you can but Ausgrid wont exempt retailer from TOU charges. So they wont give it to you.

  • GordonD on 17/05/2024 - 09:48
    +9

    Lithium ion batteries are well suited to some uses, like powering vehicles, because they have a high power density. But they are not well suited to a daily cycle of being charged up by solar panels during daylight, then discharged into the grid during the evening peak period. They are an expensive way to do that, as well as the fact they'd have a relatively short life if you did it.

    This is where, say, sodium ion batteries would be better suited. They have a poor energy density, but a lower materials cost, and are able to last many times as many cycles.

    If I was a government with a few billion surplus I'd be building a sodium ion battery plant making home batteries. The batteries it made could be sold to Australians at manufacturing cost, and would save billions down the line in savings in electricity network upgrade costs.

    • Kangal on 17/05/2024 - 16:28
      +3

      But that's just too logical. We live down undah

  • JimB on 17/05/2024 - 09:52
    +1

    Had solar at old house, no solar in current house.

    The only time I need/want solar is in the middle of summer when I turn my air-cond on. Other than the aircond we use very little electricity and mostly at night.

    In theory solar should provide some electricity in winter to run my reverse cycle air cond, but in Melbourne's winter it doesn't. Plus I mostly need heating during the early mornings when solar doesn't work.

    It's the same costs for me to run gas heating as reverse cycle air cond, so I'm using gas heating.

    I will get solar when batteries come down in price. The upfront costs doesn't make sense for me as I can't get the state government subsidies.

    • Kangal on 17/05/2024 - 16:30
      +1

      The power companies should just shoot the excess electricity back into the air. Like a reverse-thor if you will.

      • JimB on 20/05/2024 - 09:01
        +1

        Vehicle to House once approved will be a game changer for me and many households.

  • alexdagr8 on 17/05/2024 - 09:59
    +1

    Sounds like Ausgrid should just be getting some batteries or super capacitors or sand batteries if they don’t know where to store it instead of wasting the taxpayers money and then charging the taxpayer more again.

    I think governments need an annual culling to trim the fat from each department to keep taxes down and innovation up.

    Sand batteries for those interested
    https://amp.abc.net.au/article/101235514

    • mitt on 18/05/2024 - 14:07

      No storage technology on earth makes enough returns on arbitrage to attract investors at current prices. It would be more expensive if they did build the capacity to reliably soak oversupply.

      Our current batteries rely on bonus payments made on grid-balancing services (FCAS is the term). Arbitrage is a side-income at best.

  • od810 on 17/05/2024 - 10:04

    I have had 12KW solar array with 10kwh battery for the past 3 years (battery degradation is about 5% so far), my electricity bills ~$600/year (only positive bills only between April -> Sept). My usage includes pool pump & electric car charging. I estimate saving ~2k a year. It would be cool that at some point in the future, we can use our electric car as battery backup.

    • netjock on 17/05/2024 - 10:09
      +1

      It would be cool that at some point in the future, we can use our electric car as battery backup.

      There is push back isn't there on this.

      Power companies don't want you to rely less on them
      Network companies have % return based on their investment so they won't want to invest less
      Tesla don't want you to buy the car but not the power wall
      Solar installers don't want you to not buy a battery off them
      Only reason Japan has car to grid for Nissan Leaf is because they see they will have earth quakes and natural disasters that having it built in is better than making money.

      The trail of money is long. It is so stupid it can't be a conspiracy.

      • od810 on 17/05/2024 - 10:15

        I think there's a push to use car to as the battery backup (minus tesla). I know Enphase & SolarEdge are releasing their own Bi-directional chargers that work with most cars (but it will cost a lot). Technically most of the car these days already have a V2L capability, which mean if you want you can setup a dedicated circuit at home and manual switch from grid -> car. I have seen a few people does it. It's a bit inconvenient but it's do-able. The main thing is the cost, i would do it if i renovate the house.

        • netjock on 17/05/2024 - 10:50

          (but it will cost a lot)

          If you think about it. 6.6kw is the most common solar array in Oz. Think it tops out at 4kw per hour in summer peak (Melbourne). You can do about 4kwh charging a car on a 240V circuit.

          So for restricted flow from car back to house and "help" the grid. 2kw per hour would be very helpful across the grid.

          It is all these people who think it would be cool to be able to charge your car at 300kw but really you need people to charge at 4kw/h when there is excess energy to balance the grid. I hate to tell people about behavior modification. Even better is if they can get wireless charging for cars.

          • RockyRaccoon on 17/05/2024 - 12:29

            @netjock: Only if you work from home, and drive EV in non sunlight hours, which probably means you'd never recoup the cost of the EV.

            • netjock on 17/05/2024 - 12:40

              @RockyRaccoon:

              which probably means you'd never recoup the cost of the EV

              If you Uber with your Tesla at nights hehehehehe

              Tesla owners have a funny relationship with maths.

              Like that spreadsheet from WA Tesla owner club comparing 3 year cost of Tesla vs Camry with outlandish claims on resale values (like prices are not going to come down like with all tech). Also the idea you actually finance both with 100% loans at some low interest rate.

  • netjock on 17/05/2024 - 10:06
    +3

    If roof top solar is that cheap (considering feed in is like 5c) without all the cost of leasing space, maintenance and capital why don't power companies put in grid size battery and just soak up the basically free power and sell it back to everyone at 30c during peak times.

    Oh they know the scam. Batteries don't make financial sense.

    Interesting how the government is giving subsidies to green hydrogen but with this excess power nobody is using it to make green hydrogen.

    • od810 on 17/05/2024 - 10:22
      +1

      hm it's not cheap enough to do that due to limited supply, burning coal/gas is still cheaper. Roof top solar is actually cheap but storage is another issue. This is why they have something like pump hydro as the storage.

      Green hydrogen would be interesting, i think the concern right now is no one want to invest in the logistic of green hydrogen. I know Twiggy is very pro green hydrogen, and for certain application it makes total sense. Green hydrogen gets a bad reputation because of Elon Musk. But people should realise that at some point, energy production isn't our issue, but energy storage will be. And anything that helps the storage would count

      And no, i don't believe Lithium batteries will be the long term solution, it is, however, a medium term solution.

      • netjock on 17/05/2024 - 10:36

        hm it's not cheap enough to do that due to limited supply, burning coal/gas is

        Don't forget that gas is for peak. It comes back down to the EVs vs ICEs. Higher up front cost for battery with uncertainty of how long you will use it / last / payback. Everyone is investing short term to make a buck.

        Did you know they made salt water batteries which is environmentally friendly and cheap. But you know it isn't sexy and people want to make a quick buck https://www.solarquotes.com.au/saltwaterbatteries.html

    • mitt on 18/05/2024 - 14:05

      The returns aren't there. No battery can make sufficient ROI on arbitrage (buy daytime low sell evening high) to attract investment. ALL of our current grid batteries make their money on FCAS services. They get paid special elevated rates to provide the seconds & minutes scale balancing of the grid needed to keep us at 50hz. A service that flywheels on coal/gas generators used to do but as they close someone else needs to take up the slack.

      The market for FCAS is much smaller than the market required to displace coal/gas with wind/solar. We wont get enough batteries built to do it. Arbitrage is a side-hustle for FCAS batteries.

  • DingoBlue on 17/05/2024 - 10:08
    +4

    If too much power is being generated in the middle few hours of the day, why are people without solar still being charged through the nose for usage during the same period? Make it free. The wholesale price is free or negative cost at that time so it's really the retail model shooting itself in the foot.

    • netjock on 17/05/2024 - 10:10
      +1

      Goes back to having your cake and eat it at the same time. Business business and the government are in bed together on this.

      Nobody talks about efficiencies and cost savings. They just keep upping the cost.

    • sponson on 17/05/2024 - 11:17
      +1

      The retailers smooths the pricing. You could theoretically have free power during the day where there's excess solar, but then you could conceivably be charged $16/KWh on a hot summer night when everyone's cranking their A/C.

    • parabola3410 on 17/05/2024 - 12:41
      +1

      OVO offer free electricity during peak middle of day hours.

    • mitt on 18/05/2024 - 14:01

      Linking your prices to wholesale rates can be dangerous. Some retailers offer that, then people are shocked when their power bill spikes by hundreds during peak loads & they ran their aircon all evening.

  • CyberMurning on 17/05/2024 - 11:00

    This doesnt make sense. Government gave subsidy for people to install solar since years ago. Did they not think about this future consequences and to takle it ?

    • geekcohen on 17/05/2024 - 11:02
      +2

      Of course not. Look at our road infrastructure! Always behind!

    • netjock on 17/05/2024 - 12:43
      +1

      Track record would suggest they won't.

      Giving everyone $300 this year on their electricity might be better used to put in a big Tesla battery in every state to reduce peak cost of electricity. But you know it is wealth transfer from tax payers to their big corporate mates!

    • furyou on 17/05/2024 - 21:24

      the govs are STILL Encouraging people and businesses to install solar. Greens or no greens, they are doing it.

  • mrhugo on 17/05/2024 - 11:22

    This was only a matter of time.

    The future (I believe) should be massive solar panel installations managed by corporations, and maybe some stored capacity to smooth things out. Economies of scale.

    IMO your own solar panels was/is only a stop-gap, and not a long-term solution to cheaper energy

    Also, I feel that the infrastructure needs to improve. The ability for energy companies to switch off people’s panels during high periods of feed in. The energy charge should be dynamic based on load allowing household to regulate their usage.

    But I’m no expert on this, but will sit on the fence collecting sign-up bonus for my fuels (gas/elec) to keep my annual costs down. ;-)

    • netjock on 17/05/2024 - 12:45
      +1

      The future (I believe) should be massive solar panel installations managed by corporations

      Not going to happen. Too much push back. In Victoria you can only get large solar farms in far away places.

      Been trying to get a 5MW solar developed on a farm 200km from Melbourne and the resistance from neighbors is tremendous. They go on about "heat" attract insects blah blah blah. That is why you farmers spray pesticide right? You guys have boom boxes to scare birds away from your fruit orchards. Maybe the birds can eat the insects instead of your fruit. But you know people and their arse to mouth ideas.

    • mitt on 18/05/2024 - 13:59

      Commercial investors in solar/wind would never allow a requirement to install sufficient storage to smooth out their supply. It would kill the ROI, investment would evaporate overnight.

      We are getting enough batteries to manage FCAS demand, balancing out the second to second & minute to minute variations. Those services are paid at a significantly higher margin. Nobody is installing commercial batteries to make money off arbitrage.

      • mrhugo on 20/05/2024 - 14:15

        Interesting.

        Might be wrong here, but it's the Snowy Hydro 2.0 like one big f-off" sized *battery?

        • mitt on 21/05/2024 - 01:15

          Yes & it will provide some utility. It may even become essential if we keep going the way we are. But the point stands that if the RE investors SH2.0 will support were required to pay at cost the storage capacity needed to facilitate their plans, they would dip. There's a reason investors are not falling over each other to invest in SH2.0.

  • 82norm on 17/05/2024 - 11:25
    +4

    It will just be a matter of time when the government will charge EV owners for the income loss from fuel excise. Same shit, different day.

    • JIMB0 on 17/05/2024 - 15:24
      +1

      The service stations should start charging them for using the windscreen washer and pumping up their tires as well. Bloody free loaders.

    • GnarlyKnuckles on 19/05/2024 - 15:44

      The Labor Government in Victoria already did it, for years. Then the method they used was declared illegal by the courts, and now they have egg on their faces, and have to pay all the taxes back. For unfathomable reasons though, Victoria always votes Labor back in to 'run' their state, even though everything they touch turns to absolute sh*t, and always has, It's beyond 'annoying'; it's astonishing. It seems the legacy of 'Teflon Dan' lives on … scoff.

      Anyways, getting back to the point, I agree with you that governments will invent new ways to tax EV owners, when they hit some critical number/percentage of road users. Inventing ways to extract cash from their citizens is what governments the world over do best.

  • Devastator0 on 17/05/2024 - 11:39

    It's not just Ausgrid that has done this. According to this article, Endeavour & Essential Energy have followed suit. So, so incredibly infuriating.

  • mirz on 17/05/2024 - 11:43

    This is Albo’s way to provide Australian relief with energy costs. One election promise fulfilled 😂🤣

  • rocmelon on 17/05/2024 - 11:56
    +1

    A lot of electricity is generated by gas turbines , There are power stations that only operate
    when extra energy is needed.
    So they can turn down / close the turbines when not needed.
    They are looking to increase the dividend to their shareholders.

  • Chiyoko on 17/05/2024 - 12:31
    +2

    Unclear how this affects feed-in tariff.

    If that still exists then it only means 5c feed in tariff is reduced to 3.8c feed in.

    I am almost certain you still lose money if you don't export and just burn it up. So this is just a simple revenue raising scheme.

  • Jono05 on 17/05/2024 - 12:41

    Any good deals on batteries? With a decent government rebate. Asking for a friend (me).

    • netjock on 17/05/2024 - 12:48

      Some guy showed me a link on here to a 14kw lithium battery for like $4k. If you can afford it I'd test going 10kw then put batteries in and going off grid (turn the power off) and see because I am sure all these nutters in business have teams modeling how they can get most money out of us by making it just expensive not expensive enough to go off grid.

      • Euphemistic on 17/05/2024 - 13:27
        +4

        14kw for $4k sounds like a deal to good to be true - so im gonna go out on a limb and suggest it is too good to be true. Either its not a true 14kw or something in the controller means you cant use it effectively.

        • Jono05 on 18/05/2024 - 15:58

          I agree. No way is a 14kW battery going to cost $4k. Must be a catch or bs.

          • ocular on 20/05/2024 - 11:10

            @Jono05: If your into DIY and have a reliable Chinese supplier you can import 16x 280Ahr LiFePO4 cells "A grade" with install box, BMS for $4-5k, so any battery you see retail here for that price must be full of 2nd rate cells.

            • Jono05 on 20/05/2024 - 13:18

              @ocular: Who’s buying a home made battery made from 2nd rate cells? Unless you’re happy for your house to catch on fire.

  • ssx on 17/05/2024 - 13:29

    Essential energy and Endeavour have also joined Ausgrid :/

    https://archive.md/2024.05.16-123156/https://www.smh.com.au/…

  • Ramrunner on 17/05/2024 - 13:36
    +2

    My brother has over 100Kw sitting on his sheds (production nursery)

    His system comes up in stages with fancy expensive circuit boards ONLY when the power is actually directly used, as he's NOT ALLOWED to feed anything back to the grid.

    His system will only be used at less than 50% capacity certain times of the day otherwise he'll get in trouble. All that possible power going to waste. It's a joke.

    • WhyAmICommenting on 17/05/2024 - 19:48

      I imagine a 100kW array could have a big impact on the local grid voltage. Same as potentially ~20 houses. It’s not as simple as it sounds.

      • Ramrunner on 20/05/2024 - 08:05

        Here in WA there was a huge push in 2008 or so and domestive users were offered 47c feed in tariff for putting up solar. The 1.5Kw systems were practically free with the STCs at the time. It was all about going solar. Didn't seem to be an issue then, solar was going up left right and centre. I used to work for a company that did solar for 2 years.

        And now you can't feed back in to the grid. I would have thought if it is not as simple as it sounds over the last 16 years the power producers would have come up with a better arrangment or solution by now.

        @cloudy Dunno if you have any idea what a nursery and three premises on a property uses but it's well over that so when his nursery DOES run at full capacity it easily makes up for the smaller cost investment in the solar going from a lower Kw system. He DOES have use for the power, it's only certain times of the day the system ramps down.

        • Euphemistic on 20/05/2024 - 08:27
          +1

          And now you can't feed back in to the grid. I would have thought if it is not as simple as it sounds over the last 16 years the power producers would have come up with a better arrangment or solution by now.

          Thats the bit in dont understand. Its not like it was yesterday when all this solar suddenly appeared. My first 1.5kw system was about 15y ago. New house got 4kw of solar 9y ago. They havent planned properly.

          Why are we still paying shoulder rates between 2 and 4? It should be free

    • cloudy on 19/05/2024 - 20:15

      And why did your brother install a 100KW system in the first place if he had no use for the power? Was he thinking of turning his nursery into a solar farm?

      Maybe he can start a EV charging business

  • Poor Ass on 17/05/2024 - 14:26

    NSW issues

  • apple2016 on 17/05/2024 - 15:08
    +3

    Useless govt… Charges for solr… wont stop coal…

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join