Charged for Feeding in Solar Power

Euphemistic on 16/05/2024 - 16:49
Last edited 16/05/2024 - 16:55

Solar panel owners slugged by Ausgrid for generating too much power https://www.smh.com.au/environment/sustainability/solar-pane…

https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/two-way-pricing-electric…

Ausgrid is going to implement charging residential owners for exporting solar power between 10am and 3pm, then give you 2c/kwh after 4. Meanwhile they'll charge anyone using power 30-50c/kwh for using power.

While you shouldn't install solar to get feed in tariffs, getting charged becasue ausgrid can't work out the grid and users to use solar power seems a bit rich. I understand the wholesale prices can go negative during sunny days, it this is ridiculous in times of "cost of living crisis"

Looks like they are pushing owners to get batteries.

I was planning on upping my solar system with more panels, but might delay that now and go for battery instead.

What will you do?

Home & Garden Solar Energy System

Comments

  • Frederico Z on 17/05/2024 - 17:48
    +1

    The legacy of smart meters. They have us where they want us.

  • bluyu2 on 18/05/2024 - 13:13

    I have solar PV and a heat pump hot water system. Both have made ENORMOUS saings for us. Our hot water bill used to be about a third of our bill. Now we essentially get our hot water for free (run the heat pump in the middle of the day when the heat of the day is highest and the solar PV system is at its max). I'd love to also geta battery for the solar PV. Wish there were more incentives (I'm in NSW).

    • Euphemistic on 18/05/2024 - 14:36

      Wish id been more aware of heat pump fof hot water when i had to get a new one not long ago.

  • mitt on 18/05/2024 - 13:56
    -2

    " Because ausgrid can't work out the grid"

    No, that isn't how this works. PV solar installs are oversupplying when the network is already saturated. The power PV solar is supplying at that time is less than worthless. They have to spend time & resources managing the oversupply. "Working out the grid" means additional costs for storage, which they get to pay for, because they are creating the "demand" for that service.

    People with PV solar have become so used to externalising the real costs of their system they are mad when those externalities are closed.

    Install a battery you feckless sponges. Sorry your middle class welfare ride is coming to an end. How dare those poors not continue to pay for other peoples solar feed in.

    • Euphemistic on 18/05/2024 - 14:42
      -1

      PV is oversupplying but that also means that they not working out how to use that energy. If they could activate off peak hot water services when its sunny and not just over night that would help. If they could get office towers to better manage their usage that would also help. Theyve been too slow to react to a changing grid and now we are going to pay for it.

      middle class welfare

      What a crock. They are buying solar power for a fraction of the cost to generate via coal and sonehow thats welfare? What about fossil fuel subsidies? They get billions.

      • Nugs on 18/05/2024 - 14:54
        +1

        "If they could activate off peak hot water services when its sunny and not just over night that would help"
        AGL in SA does that, part of VPP
        .

      • bluyu2 on 18/05/2024 - 15:24

        I believe that there are some hot water solar related devices that you can get and install yourself so that you can have your hot water staorage system heat during the peak solar PV production time. Effectively, you can use your storage hot water systme a bit like a battery for a solar PV system, and store the energy, but as hot water. See https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/divert-excess-solar-pv-h….

        Another option is explained here, and has many other advantages: https://mcelectrical.com.au/the-fronius-smart-meter/

        And here: https://mcelectrical.com.au/the-catch-power-relay-a-better-s…

        • Euphemistic on 18/05/2024 - 16:34

          I looked at getting a 'solar diverter' for the hot water not long after i installed my solar. Wasnt worth it then cost wise, but parlty becasue we use most hot water in the evenings and didnt want to risk not heating overnight in case it wasnt sunny the next day

      • mitt on 19/05/2024 - 21:30
        -1

        They have already taken every measure you suggest. The vast majority of hot water systems & pools are on controlled load circuits. We have been maximising TOU benefits for decades, office buildings are already on TOU rates & set their systems to minimise costs. Said rates/agreements drop the price during the midday solar peak, not just the overnight. The blood has been wrung from that stone. The idea that there are TOU/efficiency gains aplenty still to be extracted is a persistent nonsense. It USED to be the case years ago, not any more.

        The gains that remain are marginal and/or require punitive action to be taken to force people to change their usage patterns, not just suggest/reward change.

        The reality remains that energy supplied that is not immediately used is effectively worthless as storage is not cheap enough to make returns on arbitrage.

        You know this, which is why you dont have a battery.

        • Euphemistic on 20/05/2024 - 08:30

          My off peak got water only heats overnight. I get charged shoulder rates in the afternoons so avoid using power then. How does this promote usage when were getting so muchbsolar that the wholesale price often drops to zero or negative?

  • plmko on 18/05/2024 - 15:52

    Glad I jumped on solar as soon as rebates were announced. Paid off the investment years ago. As with any "investment" there are bag holders, ask yourself if that is you.

  • Jero235 on 18/05/2024 - 15:53
    +1

    So Augrid want us to install batteries? If that is so practical and cost effective, then why doesn't Ausgrid install its own batteries. Charge them up during the day and then put it into the grid at night.

    • mitt on 19/05/2024 - 21:32

      Its not.

      Which is why the aren't.

  • Jero235 on 18/05/2024 - 16:02
    +2

    How do we submit a complaint to Ausgrid, or petition against this?

  • jaimex2 on 18/05/2024 - 16:34

    Wait till they make it illegal to be off grid like they did in Florida.

  • CommuterPolluter on 18/05/2024 - 21:35
    -2

    While you shouldn't install solar to get feed in tariffs, getting charged becasue ausgrid can't work out the grid and users to use solar power seems a bit rich. I understand the wholesale prices can go negative during sunny days, it this is ridiculous in times of "cost of living crisis"

    Why is it, once again, up to the rest of us to subsidise the lifestyle of those who have residential solar? No more free ride: buy a ticket like the rest of us.

    • Euphemistic on 19/05/2024 - 06:45
      +1

      Im not sure why youre suggesting that huge cirporations should be able to take a priduct from you, charge you for the privilege and then sell to other users at a profit. Theyve encouraged residential users to go solar for years, now can't work out how to use the power they wanted.

      Would you be happy if farmers has to pay woolworths to take their bananas while charging customers higher rates than normal.

      • CommuterPolluter on 20/05/2024 - 08:57
        -3

        I think solar is a good investment to make if you are against fossil fuel power generation. Good on ya but the rest of NSW doesn’t owe you a free lunch just because Rudd said you should do it. The sense of entitlement from solar panel owners reeks.

        The huge corporation in this case being the NSW Government. No, I don’t have a problem with the making minor adjustments to the fee structure of feed in tariffs to reflect the actual value of electricity fed into the grid.

        • Euphemistic on 20/05/2024 - 09:07
          +1

          Ausgrid is only partly owned by govt (49%) but they are the majority shareholder.

          Im not suggesting that solar panel owners are wanting a free lunch. Bit i reckon its a bit rich expecting generators to pay for the power the grid has wantwd for years and is also charging customers shoulder rates for. If they are going you to charge to export it, there should not be a charge to consume it.

          • CommuterPolluter on 20/05/2024 - 12:44
            -2

            @Euphemistic: This is a minuscule charge which reflects the fact that at certain times of the day this energy is not needed and imposes costs onto the grid operator. It’s a bit rich to expect everybody else to pay to clean up the mess caused by residential solar when it’s still coming out profitable.

            • Euphemistic on 20/05/2024 - 12:58
              +1

              @CommuterPolluter: The mess isnt caused by residential solar. Its caused by not managing the grid properly.

              • CommuterPolluter on 20/05/2024 - 13:01
                -3

                @Euphemistic: In this case “managing the grid” is a euphemism for “implementing expensive upgrades to provide capacity for residential solar”.

                I fail to see why the poor should be forced to subsidise the upper middle crust.

  • SydBoy on 19/05/2024 - 07:17

    Last year or year before all electricity agencies privatised by liberal worked together and submitted proposal to government regulator to allow them to charge consumer for generating excessive electricity.

    The regulator was told we need to spend money to upgrade our systems in order to take extra energy and hence price needs to pass on to those who generated this electricity.

    As always dumb Labor seems to be buying in the arguments because electricity generator saves money by not freeze or 2c kWh electricity generated by residents so that savings should be used to upgrade system.

    As a long term Labor supporter I stopped voting for th now as they don't have brain to work for working class Australian.

    This budget 24/25 wasted on giving $300 rebate to millionaire and continue to allow $20k asset write off instead of finding solutions for housing cricis.

    Rent in Sydney in any decent suburb of west or southwest suburbs are around $800/week or $40,000 per year after tax that excludes bills and living expenses so how on earth those on lower income can live and survive.

    I didn't install solar panel as I come to know about this 2 year ago that business wants to charge residents for solar panels!

    • Euphemistic on 19/05/2024 - 08:17

      As a long term Labor supporter I stopped voting for th now as they don't have brain to work for working class Australian.

      We're screwed. The curent oppostion certainly arent there for working ausies either. They put us in this mess.

      • SydBoy on 19/05/2024 - 09:02

        That is correct liberal will never look after working class but they are honest about it as every one knows them but Labor who claimed to be pro working class Aussie doing nothing for working class Australian.

        Labor opposed robo debt and mutual work agreement before election but after being elected they still support mutual work agreement and not removing it.

        As, I said above a rent in Sydney cost 40k plus $40k living expenses means one need to earn around $120k after tax to live in Sydney now how many working class working in Coles , Woolies or cafe earns $120k ?

        Life is more painful under Labor as they cheated voters and did nothing.

        Imagine a mining magnet with billions in asset also get $300 electric rebate and moron prime minister goes on tv to defend it.

        • corvusman on 20/05/2024 - 09:35
          +1

          Liberal/Labor/Greens whatever are just the different labels for the various talking heads. Doesn't matter who is sitting on parliament bench, they all work in favour of the same fat cats.

  • resisting the urge on 19/05/2024 - 09:09
    +1

    A truly tremendous, and entirely avoidable problem caused by decades of federal and state energy mismanagement. In addition to all the other problems we face. Great work enabled by decades of politicians voted in, and paid handsomely, to look after it.

    There is a giant fusion reactor in the sky, and a relatively small number of PV arrays around each city could capture energy from to feed into the supply lines. But improving the grid is something the ruling rent seekers still can't contemplate, so instead they make everyone do stop gap solar systems to achieve what they can claim are 'quick wins', and somehow 'seem' 'green'.

    • corvusman on 20/05/2024 - 09:37

      Their job is to make a good coin not to look for your or planet's health and well-being.

  • NoisyMiner on 19/05/2024 - 12:12
    +2

    My suggestion is to have street battery nodes, like nbn, all excess solar energy goes there, and it’s available for the whole street that is connected to that node at night for free. Council or state sponsored.

    • SydBoy on 19/05/2024 - 12:29
      +3

      There is a program called community battery which is similar to what you suggested but who pays for battery install and maintenance and who pays for any excess that goes into grid ?

      Difficult to get everyone to agree on this type of initiative.

      • infinite on 20/05/2024 - 09:43
        -2

        That and the fact that these batteries can't hold any charge they receive for long enough to be of any use once it gets dark, either.

    • mitt on 19/05/2024 - 21:34
      +1

      Not worth it. The returns on arbitrage are not high enough to provide ROI on the batteries. There are community batteries that do exactly as you suggest. 100% of them are dependent on external funding.

      • infinite on 20/05/2024 - 09:45
        -1

        The batteries also regularly fail and require petrol generators to be attached to them to then provide electricity back to the connected users.

        The technology is useable in theory and on paper, but it's not reliable or cost effective. There is not even a hint it will ever become reliable or cost effective in the future, either.

        • Ramrunner on 20/05/2024 - 12:43
          -1

          Solid State Batteries?

          I 100% agree with you at this point - but I think there may be a little hint if you look at the new Solid State Battery developments. I agree it could all be pie in the sky at this stage but the science looks solid. If it can be pulled of on a larger scale EVs and batteries could become less of an issue for power storage.

  • gaosong2101 on 19/05/2024 - 14:05

    The cheapest option might be just installing an export limit meter that connects to your inverter and set the inverter export limit to 0W. This costs probably around $400-$500 including installation.

    Of course if you already have a meter installed you just need to configure your inverter to avoid paying the solar tax

    • SydBoy on 20/05/2024 - 03:46

      What happens to excess electricity generated during day?

      I thought you can't switch off panel once connected?

      • gaosong2101 on 20/05/2024 - 19:18
        +1

        Your inverter simply stop generating that much power if you set the export limit. Not sure how that's done inside the inverter, probably there are some dynamic resistors controlled by the micro chips.

  • jrvb42 on 19/05/2024 - 18:49
    +3

    Just turn your export off until they come to heel. Simple. Time to create a union for pv exporters. Also, wait for an election. Let the government sort these pricks out.

    • JakeyJooJoo on 20/05/2024 - 08:19

      I'd like to see a community movement organising a set time for this

      • infinite on 20/05/2024 - 09:46

        They can all do that at the next local, state and federal elections.

  • THICKnSLOW on 19/05/2024 - 19:03

    It is beyond a bit rich, it's stupidity and idiots in management of the grid who shrug their shoulders and say 'charge them' instead of actually grinding some brain synapses and work out a feasible solution.

    This just makes me think solar gardens are a better option than investing in house mounted private solar and dealing with drongos in management of the infrastructure.

  • ozbpixels on 19/05/2024 - 20:02

    How likely is this to come to other states like Victoria?

  • gakko on 20/05/2024 - 08:43
    +2

    Community batteries are a great solution imo. Individual batteries are so damn expensive.

    • infinite on 20/05/2024 - 09:49
      -2

      Commmunity battery programs already existed for that, they have all failed because the energy is not reliably generated, not available when needed after dark and far too expensive to maintain to make them cost effective. People couldn't afford to install and maintain them, so needed grants, then those providing the grants couldn't afford to keep pissing their money up the wall with endlessly increasingly expensive maintenance costs, so they all fell flat on their faces.

      • gakko on 20/05/2024 - 10:55

        I only can find good things when I google them. Do you have any particular stories you are referring to?

  • bazingaa on 20/05/2024 - 10:17
    -2

    hehe thanks for your service :) I get free power from OVO during 11am - 2pm due to those who generate excess solar.

  • CyberMurning on 20/05/2024 - 11:27
    +1

    Maybe we should start a class action, i mean initially gov told us to go solar, subsidised the cost, etc then later charge us. Is this bait and eat tactic?

  • Euphemistic on 20/05/2024 - 11:51

    https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/1…

    Interesting take on wholesale energy pricing.

  • Captain Hindsight on 20/05/2024 - 13:52

    seems to be not just Ausgrid now in nsw. listening to the ABC if this turns out to be right, you will still get a fit, there will be a threshold and exceeding it will reduce you fit by 1.2c kw/h.

  • Takeonme on 20/05/2024 - 20:53
    +1

    I’ve said it all along. Solar power is a scam. You pay to generate power, sell it to retailers for pennys, they onsell it for dollars. Now this. It’s f**ked

  • Euphemistic on 24/05/2024 - 18:51

    NSW is now going to offer incentives from install batteries from November.

    • SBOB on 24/05/2024 - 18:59

      between $1,600 and $2,400 off the up-front installation cost of a household battery for homes and business with existing solar

      Pretty sure battery install prices just jumped $1600 to $2400 overnight.

  • Gros21 on 25/05/2024 - 08:17

    QLD will do this shortly also.

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