Completely agree, but hopefully by then some of the new EVs will be out in Australia, I'm hoping the Xiaomi su7 comes to Australia, I'm not sure what the price will look like here but the base model still has great range and is $30k US in China.
Tesla Model Y: RWD $65,700 (Was $67,200), LR $74,700 (Was $80,200), Performance $84,700 (Was $93,200) + ORC @ Tesla » All Comments
+1 on Xiaomi
See this is why I've always thought Tesla Inc. is massively overvalued. It's priced as if they have a 50 year copyright on electric cars. Clearly they do not.
@shaybisc: No but they do own the majority of charging infrastructure, which is important for anything other than local trips where you charge at home. That in itself adds value to Tesla over other much better cars
@hornoscous: Which they're opening up to non-Tesla vehicles, so they must consider the value of that advantage as negligible now.
@banana365: Not all Superchargers are open to non-Teslas, not the busier ones. Also the tariffs are higher for non-Teslas
@banana365: Think you missed the point, Tesla make money from vehicles using their charging network.
@BluebirdV: I remember the last time government spent twice as much to build twice as less of a network and they called it NBN. So no thanks.
@CacheHunter: "Finished" is highly debatable.
In order to shout mission accomplished at the promised time, the Coalition government allowed a bunch of kludgy fixes, including shifting entire communities onto slower and less reliable connections (fixed wireless or even satellite in some cases) instead of the planned fibre connections.
NBN is still in the process of moving hundreds of suburbs over to fibre connections, and there's little doubt that a lot of the brand new, very expensive copper cabling that was put into the ground in the last few years will be removed in favour of fibre in the next decade or so.
@klaw81: Daily reminder that democracy exists. You can't ask the government to do things without factoring that in.
Labor had screwed the rollout of the NBN and it had basically fully stalled when the Coalition got in. Then the Coalition decided to cut the technology to remove the hardest part of the job and get it done.
Both "failed" in their own, different ways.
But you can't just operate on the assumption that only your team will stay in government forever.
@Wolfenstein98k: Labour didn't fail the NBN. It was off to a slow start, as fibre was new technology at the time. It would have finished on time if it had been allowed to run its initial course. You're one of those "both sides are just as bad" people?
@tor: Honestly, even finishing late wasn't a big problem. The important part was that it was done once, done properly and efficiently, and with technology that had a clear and sensible upgrade path.
Instead, we got a ridiculous patchwork of different legacy network types, some of which were already obsolete, highly unsuitable for their new purpose, and vastly too expensive.
@tor: That's a very favourable view. I don't think you can ask a new government to honour the old one's plan, that you didn't support, and that you're getting reports has stalled because it was poorly planned. I wouldn't expect Labor to do that for a Liberal boondoggle, such as the East-West Link.
As to "just as bad", no one equivocated. Weird that you felt the need to ask.
@Wolfenstein98k: Well, they did with Snowy 2.0, which has been a slow motion train wreck from day 1 :-)
@klaw81: Sure. I expect both parties have mismanaged and/or poorly planned massive infrastructure programs. Neither of them should be taken at face value when saying they can successfully build you a bridge.
That was the point of my initial comments.
@hornoscous: In the USA, Tesla have a superior charging network, where they have their own connector standard, and the public CCS chargers over there are notoriously unreliable. Here in Australia, Tesla uses the CCS connector just like almost every other EV, and Tesla charging sites make up less than 20% of all CCS charging sites (currently in Victoria there are about 30 Tesla CCS sites and well over 200 CCS sites in total).
I kind of wish Tesla did have their own superior charging network and connector standard in Australia, as there would be a lot less of them competing with the rest of us for access to public CCS chargers!
Back on topic, the continuing fall in Tesla prices is good for anyone looking at EVs, as it puts downward pressure on all brands
@iohnc: In USA other cars are going to adopt NACS and NACS is CCS2 compliant and cheap converters can used to Interface convert and Tesla is opening up access to other cars.
Proprietery has no business in any part of this equation.
What we need is more more more…more fast and more slow. Pole chargers upto 11 kw at each and every pole where street parking is allowed and at all public parking places, medium fast chargers at ever 10km and Super fast chargers every 100km or so in all highways.
@tchcrat: Chargers are low investmet, low maintenance amenities unlike petrol station. Once installed operation costs are next to nil unlike petroleum based supply chain.
@hornoscous: That isn't really important anymore. Most of the key supercharger sights are open to other brands and the build out as part of whatever the federal gov scheme is called has been pretty significant. I use to feel the same ways but not anymore at all.
@shaybisc: Tesla was not the inventor nor the first to adopt the EV technology
Nissan Leaf - EV
Toyota Pirus - PHEV
Mitsubishi Outlander - PHEV
BYDAll what Tesla did was incorporate a larger long range battery which all of the above brands could have done had they forecasted the popularity and acceptance of EV
@utsc: Could have done, would have done - fact is they did not. If it was so easy they would be able to match Tesla efficiency but guess what they cannot do that either.
@utsc: Tesla pre-dates literally all of those examples….Tesla drove the popularity and acceptance of EVs
@chrismelba: The Leaf was on sale a year and a bit after the Roadster and delivered 40,000 units. Only 1000 Telsas were made by Jan 2010.
@utsc: If you're going to be picky, none of those companies existed when the EV was invented. Sure, the first ones had even worse range and top speed only slightly faster than an energetic stroll, but first is first! :)
@utsc: Is anyone claiming Tesla invented EV? Is anyone claiming Tesla invented Li-ion/LFP/Na-ion battery?
Was Tesla with an advantage when EV idea restarted in 80's? Tesla as a Lotus kit car assembler has not even started.
Then why bark the wrong tree?
Boss, there is something called "Dunning Kruger Effect" which discusses the topic "People Don't even know what they don't know".
Watch these documentories atleast to inject some shallow level history in your mind when discussing topics like this:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0489037/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1413496/Drive tesla for a week and then try test driving all the production cars of all legacy makers including BMW/Audi/Lexus and likes and then you will understand.
@shaybisc: Yes if you totally ignore that Tesla is not just a car company - add utilities, grid scale battery storage, home battery storage, solar panels, tech company.
@shaybisc: 1 Massive data collection
2 If you've ever driven one, you'll understand they currently have a monopoly on the best production EV still@shaybisc: Copyright or not. Tesla brings value like no other as it stands now. Build quality/Reliability/Manufactureability/Factory throughput/Customer satisfaction etc.
Copyright protection was never tesla's intention and tesla is opensourcing and open licensing as much as they can as a public company.
90% of current tesla customers won't consider any other brand when it is time to purchase/repurchase. That itself is telling the story.
Share market needs constant excitement and Elon knows how to manipulate the blood hounds pretty well. An that has nothing to do with thier product quality or customer satisfaction.
A Tesla is a Tesla is Tesla…
@shaybisc: the competition either keeps going bankrupt or makes cars people don't want to buy at the price they're sold for.
Tesla energy business is growing rapidly with very high margins, the supercharger network will rake in $10 monthly subscriptions from non tesla ev owners or will charge higher charging rates. Tesla insurance will eventually be a significant lower margin high revenue business.
How much will the Optimus bot save tesla and it's major supply partners in labour costs once it's rolled out? Labour is a $30T global TAM.
Then there's what will autonomy be worth in say 2030? based on the progress of version updates in the 12.X, and no longer being constrained on compute power to train the end to end neural nets, I believe their FSB will be better than a human by 2026.
The Cybertruck is pure profit destruction for US OEMs. GM is fracked.
BYD is the only other EV maker than can eek out a profit, though it's unclear how profitable the pure EVs they producte are compared to their hybrids which are at higher volume.
Unless you driv ea lot of KMs current EVs aren't the most economically rational choice for most.
@shaybisc: If you view Tesla as an auto maker your view is correct. Their initial market dominance will (and was always going to) subside. In the next year or so likely that Chinese makers will comfortably overtake Tesla. In 5 years they will possibly be a second tier player.
But they are not primarily an auto maker and the company value lies in their other products.
Useful to read their mission statement…..
Or Oppo, oh wait
+1 because I can still use mi app to control my car, vacuum, light and cooker.
With lithium prices tanking, hopefully the pricing will just keep getting better too. CATL announced they'll knock 50% off the price of a battery by year end, which is $4-5k off the price of materials.
Musk has already said that if free competition happens, everyone is screwed against Chinese cars. The government has made sure they've integrated the entire supply chain and are using it and batteries to support their next growth boom (since the arse has fallen out of their domestic construction industry).
Looking forward to getting a Xiaomi and having it tell me I have to connect it to the Chinese Mainland server.
I mean this is a real threat isn't it? If we have a trade disagreement with China again cant they just send out an update to brick/lock the car OS since these cars connect to WiFi/Mobile? And basically shut down the country when Chinese EVs become a large percent of market. All the controls are by-wire, don't think you could even manually override.
@Kommodore: I was actually just making a joke that half my Xiaomi devices are on the Singapore server and half are forced onto the Chinese mainland one and that you can't integrate the 2 groups at all, but yeah this too.
@Kommodore: No? It's not a real threat. Just give it more than like 5 seconds of thought.
That would be national cyber terrorism, publicly and to a scale that is likely enough to be considered an act of war.
So yeah, I guess if you think a squabbling trade disagreement is the same as that, sure, you can worry about it.
@eagerfisherman: The fact that you think it's beyond the Chinese to shut down access to internet connected devices/vehicles is insane.
@eagerfisherman: @Kommodore proposed the idea that a threat of buying Chinese cars connected to Chinese mainland IT equipment is that they could shut it down and you said
No? It's not a real threat. Just give it more than like 5 seconds of thought.
So, yes, it is what you said.
@gyrex: That doesn't say they can't do it, try to read all the words in context, it helps with comprehension.
@eagerfisherman: You think Australia will go to war with China because they stopped our cars from moving? lol we'd apologise to them for damaging their car brands image.
@eagerfisherman: The Chinese government has been alleged by ASIO to have conducted cyber terrorism before, why do you think it's beyond them to escalate it if it suits them?
@Kommodore: Well, technically they can do it, but will they?
The US technically owns all the iPhone devices and all the Tesla cars, what if they want to shut down all these devices? Do you think?
What about those countries that own the nuclear heads, what prevents them from bombing other countries? Why not use nuclear heads rather than shut down your Xiaomi car?
I guess they will just do it anyway without telling you.
I have a Model Y and I want a Xiaomi SU7 as welll
Rivian R2 please! Super excited for that one. Really want it here
The R3x also looks so good! Huge throwback to 70's/80's rally icons.
@poppingtags: Wow, that looks awesome.
https://gizmodo.com.au/2024/03/the-rivian-r3x-is-an-electric…
@poppingtags: that it does. I want something a little bigger (family) but that R3X does look amazing.
That'll be much later though. R2 is coming first, 2026/27, then the R3 series@figarow: It's an old design that's meant to provide better ventilation. Its still used in a few lux sports cars - I've never sat in a seat like that, I'm not sure if it woul be frustrating?
@poppingtags: Have you ever lost something between the seats? Now you will also lose it on the seat.
@figarow: I suppose, but I think that would be a con I'd be willing to accept for seats that looked so good! I also don't drop things between seats very often at all.
Is there anything that company doesn’t make? lol
Crazy how EVs have enabled all these companies to start manufacturing vehicles.
Xiaomi doesn't make all their products. They outsource production and sometime even use their brand to sell existing products of other companies.
Even in this case, manufacturing will be done by Chinese state owned company BAIC.
Xiaomi su7 - for those who want a Taycan but can never afford it 😢
Unfortunately the price won't be that low in Australia… Likely to be around mid to high 70k for SU7 at least, in my opinion.
Also there is no plan yet to bring that car to Australia. Need more competition to keep the prices down especially since the price of lithium tanking.Can you really compare a Tesla or a well known/build car manufacturer with a Chinese brand?? From my experiences with Chinese branded ICE cars… ohh chalk and cheese.
You are assuming Tesla is a well buit car.
@x d: I also got July 23. Have u checked rattles with tesla? Whole heaps of them are due to seat belts not placed properly
@sauce2k: Had the first rattle in a brand new car sorted out in the first 3 weeks in the driver's B pillar. Now a rattle inside the driver's door. It will need to be taken apart to find it. Have to drive with my arm on the armrest on the driver's door to soften the rattle.
Wiper's shudder from new is also disappointing. Reading owners' issues with air cond compressor failures soon after 80000km does not give me much confidence after warranty runs out.
They are not well built. If they were, none of these issues should be considered to be common.
@tomfool: Not quiet. There is daylight between my Audi and a Tesla. There is also daylight between a Tesla and Chinese auto manufacturing. No assuming needed.
@basketcase86: Tesla is more interested in boosting numbers then quality control, and because Tesla is like a religion their followers make every excuse for the company. Tesla owners make hardened Apple fans seem normal.
I'm not hating on the car, just that the quality is lacking and its well documentated.
Buy a Chinese made internet connected car? Sure… and when Aust. China have a spat, what will you do with your car when it is locked and parked by the side of the road unable to be used?
This already happens with multiple manufacturers including ford. People have parked their car at work and then come out to go home and the update failed and bricked the car. Apparently without any input from the owner.
So you'd rather give money to the CCP than Musk? Not sure how anyone could justify that, but whatever floats your boat.
+1 for Xiaomi SU7, I have been watching testing and walk through videos non stop on bilibili. Would definitely get this over any other EVs available in the AU market!
The lowest-end configuration of the Xiaomi SU7 in China costs $30,000 USD, but only the version priced at $45,000 USD is worth purchasing. Importantly, this is after significant subsidies from the Chinese government. Products manufactured in China through low labor rights and government subsidies are essentially being dumped when exported abroad. To avoid having all job opportunities and potential wage increases taken away, staying away from such temptations is the only choice. Europe has already recognized the harm of this kind of low-price dumping to domestic industrial chains.
EVs have much higher depreciation rates than petrol cars.
So yes the second hand Tesla Model Y will be much cheaper…..
but so will the used EV you are selling.So depends on the change-over cost to upgrade….if indeed that is an upgrade at that time ???
EVs have much higher depreciation rates than petrol cars.
Is there any empirical evidence for this claim?
YES. its a published fact.!
And there are many reasons for this.
Also published facts.
I suggest you research the subject yourself as obviously you wont believe anything anyone else puts to you.The empirical eveidence is right here
You haven't cited one skerrick of empirical evidence and based on this thread, I highly doubt you know what empirical evidence is. You've just made a claim and said "trust me, it's a published fact" without citing any published facts.
@HeWhoKnows: "I certainly know more than the most here"
LMAO insert McGregor's line: "Who Da FOOK is That Guy?"
I suggest you research the subject yourself
The usual argument of people who believe in alternative facts.
@smartazz104: If they weren’t speaking off hand, it would be so easy to cite some paper that backs this up. Not saying they’re wrong, but there is no use in stating something without evidence.
@smartazz104: Not really
So many disbelievers here
They only believe in the garbage that comes out of their mouth (keyboard sorry).You put up links to hard facts and get neg voted because these sore losers were proven wrong.
So Ive given up.
Let these knowitalls do the research themselves.
Then they might become believers of THE TRUTH
@arcticmonkey: How about you google it yourself.
Its all over the internet.
This place is not an authoritative source of information.
Just a reflection of peoples opinions.
@Creamsoda: When the entire world wasnt producing enough cars?
When every car appreciated in value because you could get your hands on a new car inside of 12 months?
LOL LOL LOLTell me another one. :) :) :)
@HeWhoKnows: In Australia, at least, that situation is still going. Used car prices are overinflated across the board.
carsales.com.au
@backupper1: The prices suggest typical depreciation. No published facts backup the typical hysteria of ev haters.
@johnt107: Battery replacement cost $16,000 plus says it all.
High insurnace costs adds to the pain.
Lack of charging stations says more.
EVs exploding into fierce fires adds more ????There are plenty of reasons why EVs have high depreciation.
Hertz US is dumping 20,000 Teslas from thier fleet
I wonder why????@HeWhoKnows: It shows you read some news, well done champ.
A typical EV hater always focus on battery replacement - why don't you give us a stat now (since you know more the most of us here), how many people actually needed to replace their battery? There is warranty on the battery and how many people actually keep their car more than 8-10+ years without swapping and this is also assuming if the battery dies beyond warranty, $16k vs a new car is still cheaper in most cases.
Anyway, waiting for your stats
@johnt107: Contact a used car lot -> Ask them to give you a quote on a trade in/buy back for an EV.
They'll give you a super low value. That's a fact.
Depreciation is definitely going to affect EV's more than petrol (When looking at a similar ICE vehicle).
HeWhoKnows is being useless.
https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/analysis-plumm…
So, yeah, EVs do currently have high depreciation rates because of
* Inflated early adopter type pricing
* Lack of stock originally
* Quickly developing tech, meaning second hand EVs seem outdated faster
* Lack of options, leading to lack of competitionNow that a lot more EVs are coming onto the market, including substantially cheaper options, it's pulling the market down to more reasonable starting prices.
Meaning that this depreciation is seen as side effect of the early market, that will stop being a thing over time.
@spoco2: Thanks for proving my case.
You have presented empirical facts which I wasnt event ware of.But pls dont confuse what MIGHT happen in the future (crystal ball stuff) with the cold hard facts of the past.
PS If cost of new EVs does start to fall and technology continues to rapidly improve, the price of used EVs will fall even faster!
There is your rapid depreciation backed into future used prices of EVs
Yes, the current empirical evidence definitely supports this claim. But as they say in the classics, correlation does not automatically imply causation.
The numbers are skewed because early non-Tesla EVs were crap, so suffered high depreciation. And as EV prices have dropped as competition fills out (especially now Chinese), new prices have dropped in response, which has affected the second hand market for EVs which has made the depreciation numbers look bad compared to ICE vehicles (especially with the big Covid delays with new ICE vehicles pushing second hand market up).
This will all shake out in the long term, especially as the newer LFP battery equiped EVs get older and don't loose much range, and require FAR less maintenance to own longer term. My 5 year old Model 3 has 100,000km, it has lost 8% of its original capacity (and none since 70k) but has required no maintenance other than tyres at 40 and 80k, almost all charging from excess solar PV. No servicing, no petrol, no oil, no brake pads etc etc. In the fullness of time, once people realise that Teslas don't instantly need a new battery at 8 years old despite what Murdoch media will tell you, their resale will be far better than ICE, mark my words.
@dtpearson: Anything will be better than the metal-scrappers demanding payment to take the old ICE clunker off your hands.
Resale value of ICE vehicles is due to potential usage and potential strip-down for spare parts.
Because new EV prices are dropping to new ICE vehicle levels, and running costs are so low, the only thing re-usable on on ICE vehicle is the wheels and tyres … maybe, and the tyres have limited life exposed to the sun/weather, and the wheels will rust.
You won't be able to give away an ICE vehicle from 2028 onwards.
@debro: You won't be able to give away an ICE vehicle from 2028 onwards.
Enjoy charging 20x a day when you want to go long distance.
@chadleyshe: We've taken our 4.5yr old Tesla on road trips several times every year.
You're only fooling yourself.
Stopping to charge every 3hrs is not the chore that you're suggesting. Even on the old 50kW chargers, the car is fully recharged and ready to go before we are.
Government guidelines recommend stopping every 2 hours, so you don't have an accident.
There's even less chance of that, when your vehicle drives itself. Autopilot doesn't get tired. and wander out of the lane.
@debro: Enjoy lining up for hours when there is only 1 charging station within 200kms of your current location.
The fact you even said you "won't" be able to even give away an ICE vehicle in 2028 shows your complete lack of education in Australia's current economic landscape.
@chadleyshe: Yup, I assumed you meant that. But, also, what of the people who currently take their 4x4s into the bush to camp, etc?? I guess they can try with the Cyberurinal, if they have a spare $160,000 to 'invest' in it - and are willing to tow a 3 phase gennie with a support vehicle towing diesel to run the gennie.
That'd go over well.
@kale chips suck: My thoughts exactly. You will never replace a good quality 4WD for those who enjoy camping etc.
@chadleyshe: That was the Easter break no? You should have seen the massive lines for the petrol station.
@chadleyshe: I did a road trip during the Easter break. There were plenty. and half the time I just wanted to get to the maccas next to the servo. Tell me you just hate EVs without telling me you just hate EVs.
@teatea: No hate, just dislike. Our infrastructure is years behind where it should be. Until we have adequate charging stations that are readily available and the price drops a bit further, I am not just not interested.
What annoys me though is people who seem sold on the death of the ICE vehicle. They aren't going anywhere for a long long time.
@chadleyshe: You seem misinformed on the amount of ELECTRICITY required to power ICE vehicles. Especially in the distribution phase (ie: Petrol Stations, Pumps, Refineries, Extraction and Processing).
I get EVs can't yet replace all ICE vehicles, but won't be long before ICE vehicles are the exception and not the norm.
Walking through a parking garage on a hot day, won't be too soon if you ask me.
@teatea: Really? I did too and drove past the precise Tesla station in that article. Guess what, not a queue in sight at any of the many many petrol stations I passed on that trip.
@chadleyshe: I just traveled from Melbourne to Bright for Easter. Leave on Friday and back on Monday. Supposed to be busiest and I charged during my break in Benalla. Charged for return in Bright. And there was no one waiting. On the way back another stop in Benalla, I didn’t charge but the chargers were free
@debro: You won't be able to give away an ICE vehicle from 2028 onwards.
Utter BS.
Landcruiser / Pathfinder will be worth $0.. LOL
@dtpearson: RemindMe! 10 yrs
I just sold my 17 year old ICE car at a depreciation of 3.7% of its original value per year. Let's see an EV do that.
@dtpearson: Interesting points you make.
But as more manufacturers enter the market, techonology improves and makes many used Evs almost obselete in comparison with the new ones, and the chinese start shipping cheaper EVs, the prices of used Evs will CRASH even more.
Its the same with all technology products….yes?
How much is your apple iPhone worht after 3 years, then after 5 years?
Same with your iMac or Samsung Galaxy phone.
There is your benchmark for depreciation.of technology products@HeWhoKnows: ICE car was a technology product in the 20th century bra…
That was exactly what a luxury coach builder said about ice car at that time….
Irony is no one remembers the coach builder or the coach now….you know what the worth of that coach now? a trillion dollars!!! if you can find that coach and a person with a trillion dollars who is interested to buy that coach for a trillion dollars…
source: trust me bro
@voltex: Thank you
Yes these reported facts about rapid falls in used values are everywhere!
And there are many reasons for this.But the "uninformed" critics here wont do the research nor will they believe you.
You are throwing this in the face of "disbelievers"Thats why I suggested they do thier own research.
There's a heap load of data for the US & Europe, it's very difficult to sell second hand EV's.
Aus is a bit different, still see Jimny owners trying to sell their 10 year old cars for what they cost new in 2014….
But there will be concerns about unwarranted EV's in a few years and will have to lower asking prices to meet the market.@Buddy195: When is comes to technology products such as EVs, the new technology always kills the the old technology and hence values crash.
But the disbelivers here dont quite understand that even though thier 2 year old iPhone or Samsung android phone or that new notebook PC has depreciated by 50% in just 2 years
Theres a few used Y's that are now more expensive than new on car sales
Just like Graphics Cards.
I dunno when and how antique busts were appropriated by the clueless f**kwit brigade, but it's genuinely astonishing the certainty with which you can assume that someone using one as an avatar is going to have absolutely nothing of value to say.
Find me a cheap second hand Model Y and I will thank you.
Pathetic state of a part of today's society. A subset who don't even know that there is something called Dunning-Kruger Effect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Nothing more to say… Just LoL understanding that such subset of society is impossible to irradicate even with super emphasis on education.
Just like we cannot prevent medical doctors who travel to some mountail tops and suicide by self wounding all over their body thinking that they are going to have extraterrestrial life.
How much do you think these will go for second hand in 3-5 years?
MOST Cars are terrible investments, ICE cars have held up better due to supply constraints.
EVs have depreciated quicker as they are emerging technologies and their value\cost will reduce with scale.
EV is hard to beat on TCO, and the only way to go if you can novate lease, but except a depreciation hit.
Ohh. ICE cars are forecast to have a massive decline in value, but when!! That's the question.
Not talking trucks here, but you day to day city run about ICE vehicles.
Yeah free speech is terrible! (profanity) anyone who supports it!
Lol if you seriously, unironically think a multi-billionaire union-buster who bought one of the biggest social media platforms on the planet out of spite, so he could arbitrarily refashion it in a manner palatable to his own particular ideology is some kind of bastion of FrEe SPeECh, then I hope you one day receive the apology sorely owed to you by whomever was responsible for your education.
Lol if you seriously, unironically think
'If you disagree with me you are Hitler!' We know the drill. What else did the Guardian tell you to think?
@1st-Amendment: Immediately reaching for the weird Hitler strawman apropos of nothing is a very sane and normal approach definitely worthy of taking seriously, good on ya champ 👍
Immediately reaching for the weird Hitler
I agree that it is weird, yet here you are, living up to the stereotype…
strawman
So you don't know what that word means either. Also stereotypical.
I honestly don't understand how someone can listen to Elon speak, after seeing all the success he's had over many pioneering businesses, PayPal, Tesla etc and then go… "Yeah naa I know better than that c**t!"
Is it a combination of narcissism and stupidity? Or just plain ignorance, i.e they just repeat whatever they are told to think from 2nd hand sources?
It's alright to disagree with things, but to write a whole person off because they lean slightly different to you politically says more about the person writing them off, than the person they are writing off in my opinion.
Is it a combination of narcissism and stupidity?
It's both. Also a massive lack of self-awareness.
they just repeat whatever they are told to think from 2nd hand sources?
That is how the game works. All the bots chant 'Murdoch/Elon/Trump bad" completely oblivious to the fact that they are victims of the exact same type of brainwashing.
@Binchicken22: just because he is an astute investor does not make him some genius nor does it make him not a c**t. Elon makes out like he is some sort of saviour but he is just like every other billionaire a narcissistic tw@t. They despise help for the unfortunate but accept and structre their business for every governmeent handout.
I've been looking at second hand Model Y prices, and they've been sliding for a few months now. Wouldn't be surprised to see used models hit $50k next year, especially after the rumoured Juniper update comes out
This is also likely a move to combat a few upcoming EV SUVs from the likes of Volvo, Kia and BYD who are all gunning for the Model Y market.
And plenty of people complaining that EV prices are too high….
Now they complain depreciation is too high.To be fair, even $50k for a car feels like a lot of money to me - and this is as someone fortunate to be on an above average income, with above average savings. I currently drive a 20+ year old car that's worth about $3k, and it always blows my mind to see so many $75-100k+ cars on the road - are people just neck deep in debt? The main reason I'm looking at upgrading is for the additional safety that new cars provide.
@poppingtags: Most of those expensive cars are leased. With a turn over of 3-4 years.
You never own a car just pay for the privilege of using it. Some are happy with that kind of arrangement.
@spc12go: yeah but you would have paid about 75k over three years fpr expensive car lease and at the end of it you don't even own a car. :P
Do you mean they deduct the expense via busness?? or something?
Even then you would have paid 37k and no car at the end of it.
@poppingtags: I would certainly think so.
I've been lucky….and stupid enough to have been able to paid for 1 brand new car in 2015 and in 2016.
Even with novated lease available to me….I am still not ready to get an EV.
Have associates that updated their X7 and GL all within months in 2022.
So I assume they are all leased and upgrade within 5 years@0806449: Meaning that they pay rougly 25k or so per year to have the X7 or what ever on an onging basis.
In ten years they would have paid 250k.
Is that correct??
@Naigrabzo: They won't keep the car for 10 years.
Most likely keep for 4 years and offload before warranty ends.
Or just keep refinancing to newer model@0806449: Fair call. So they are paying roughly $25k per year per car ongoing but have luxury of X7 not to mentio braggin rights. Not the worst deal if there is enough disposable income to dispose so to speak.
Why the hate for musk?
You may already be paying him, and he’s very likely to get more as time goes on. Tesla are not primarily an auto company and their technical integration means Mr Musk’s net is spreading very wide.
Choosing to hate him is your absolute right, but be prepared to have some difficult moments in the coming years……
I'll just select click and collect to avoid the delivery fee. Right? Unless it is some sort of drip pricing, but that is banned.
Retailers doing illegal things without repercussions? Surely not in my Australia!
Delivery fee is preparing the vehicle off the ship and carrying out compliance. The delivery from factory to delivery centre (or delivered to your house) is part of the RRP price. The name is misleading and its one way of dealers profiting.
https://www.drive.com.au/news/ford-australia-powerless-to-st…Can I buy the car without that fee? If not, why is it separate?
You might need to pick it up from the wharf and do the compliance yourself. Im not a car dealer, so i dunno what they are ripping us off on.
Elon must be reacting MG recent prices slash
MG and now Ora soon BYD will be cutting too to stay competitive.
i have looked at all 3, not the ora and the tesla is a nicer car, it’s like asking bmw or mercedes to drop prices to compete with toyota, if tesla want to compete at the bottom end, they will develop new cheaper model , it’s not officeworks price match model.
Comparing a Tesla to BMW or Mercedes is a bit of a reach, isn't it?
@kron: Only my own experience, but my parents have basically the same age Merc GLE350 and a C300 as my cheaper Tesla Model 3 Performance, and there is no way I would swap. They do have much more fancy interiors and nice leather though, but with crap, slow infotainment/navigation systems.
@dtpearson: That's the thing. You are comparing apples to oranges when comparing Tesla to Merc/BMW. They cater to different people. A fair comparison would be EV to EV. I personally think both the interior and exterior of the BYD Seal looks much better than Tesla. But BYD definitely lacks in some other areas.
@dtpearson: Would be hard to compare the comfort and quietness etc of C300/GLE300 (air suspension) with a Tesla 3 especially if it's pre 2024.
@kron: The NVH and suspension on the Model 3 is now at the level of a BMW. So it isn’t a reach at all
@kron: Explain the reach? because byd seal can easily be compared with mercedes so not sure why this is a reach? Just because you slap a high price tag doesn't make it better.
Rarely do we look at mercedes or bmw and think damn this is a good value car.
Average price of mercedes car bought new is probably in the 120k range
Average price of tesla new is in the 80k range.
Yet BYD seal 70k is compared to merc so why we ignoring Tesla?
@Lit Homie: I agree with the Seal part. But if you think the quality of the Seal and Model 3 are on the same level, then you are reaching too. Seal is a way better looking car.
each to their own, but I've known a few people who considered getting an EV and they look at all EVs on the market, they don't consider Tesla as some sort of top of end car or anything.
I also recall Musk himself talk about BYD and China made cars as competition that's gonna eat America's lunch or something of the kind.
Equally, like kron suggested, many people don't compare Tesla with BMW or mercs, its all subjective.
Tesla M3 doesn't have indicator stalks and I guess the new Model Y won't either.
I've test driven several EVs (ioniq electric, ioniq5, ioniq6, M3, polestar 2, Dolphin, Seal, MG4) and they all have their own quirks. I'm leaning towards the Seal or one of the Hyundai's.
@Caped Baldy: Stalks is a muscle memory thing. after couple of weeks your muscle memory will struggle to use stalks.
Also KIA and polestar got many good options. Polestar 4 launch event is on April 9th.
I own a BYD Seal, and have owned and have had extended usage of various luxury cars such Merc AMGs, current gen of BMW 4 series, Lexus and Genesis as well high end models of non-luxury brands VW, KIA and tesla
My personal opinion, Tesla doesn't even come close to the luxury brands, not even the premium non-luxury brand models, my Seal i would rank much higher/premium/luxurious over Tesla and close if not on par with some of the luxury brands
Every single Tesla owner who has been in my Seal was really impressed and a couple even seemed regretful for getting a Tesla
This is pre-Highland model 3Again this is personal opinion
@ZR6: That may be a very narrow opinion. I have a friend who booked an ix3 and waiting. He tasted my M3 and is really excited and if not for the space which he needs he would have chosen Tesla night and day. Once you are used to the declutter that Tesla brings to your life there is no going back.
Yes. it is only a Medium tier luxury brand. There is no gold plated trims or crocodile leather upolstery option in a tesla, No flourescent flashy paint schemes, not even a plain popular metallic silver paint option and so if that kind of bling is your priority and taste then by all means look elsewhere.
Tesla brings a lot of value - that doesn't mean Tesla is the 100% right car for everyone. Tesla raises the bar and Tesla accelerates the change we all can benefit from. That's all.
And BYD seal is very good car. But the software integration and optimization can be improved. Android auto based platform that BYD uses can benefit from a Offshore development center in India to fine tune for international audience and overall polish. Interior can be inproved by working on some declutter and redesign of the cheap looking shiny plastic controls. Overall when I analyze my own Seal test drive experience I rate my M3 Highland 20-30% better. And then when you compare the LR version of Seal with LR version of M3 you get a approx 10k savings but you also get a dual motor in M3. So overall it is a choice that we have to make depending on the priority.
@tchcrat: When i said Tesla doesnt come close to luxury brands, i meant in terms of materials and quality
Doesnt mean its not a good i think its a great car and its what got me interested in going electric but it wasnt the car for meI feel the Seal has a more premium feel to it in terms of materials and quality
Yes seal has some cheap plastics but even some high end premium vehicles do to
As for "minimalistic" and "clutter" that goes back to everyones personal preferences, I think tesla is too minimalistic i like to see in front of me without having to look off to the side to check my speed/adjust ac etc
Having the second screen and HUD is a big winAnother thing is your comparing rhe Seal variants to the wrong M3 variants
Seal Dynamic doesnt have a similarly spec Tesla M3 variant - its a entry level electric sedan that gives you alot for its price
The Seal premium can be compared to M3 RWD similar price similar specs each with their own pros and cons
And Seal Performance AWD vs M3 AWD - similar prices and specsAgain each with their own pros and cons
I prefer the look of the Seal over the M3
As for software yes Tesla is way ahead in that department and also in the phone app too
But is software really going to be a deciding factor or deal breaker? It maybe for some especially those coming from tesla but for many its not going to be a deal breaker
Every car brand has its on software and infotainment exclusive to their brand and some work well and some dont even i some new luxury premium cars the software feels unrefined and outdated but that has really been a deal breaker for buyers, because even on bad software (for newer cars) there is something to overcome this and its android auto/apple car play which is not available on teslaAnd BYD running on android is actually good for me and many others who are android users and thats the ability to customise (to a certain degree) and install certain apps on the system. Yes it not officially supported but it is easily done
I find my infotainment experience quite good and seamlessI think Tesla is like the apple ios of cars with its software and BYD is literally android
But again i dont think software is going to be a deal breaker especially if someone is coming from and an ICE vehicle
If the seal wasnt release in aus id probably be still in my ICE vehicle on the fence about getting a Tesla which is the point i was at for many months before the seal came along
M3 just didnt tick enough boxes for me personally
The seal did with its price/specs/looks/performance
And again its personal preference
I had a person in my seal who owns two teslas n an audi rs a mb amg and a porsche and after coming in the car he kept on saying his teslas are sh*t compared to this - his words not mine
https://qz.com/elon-musk-tesla-electric-vehicle-deliveries-s…
Elon needs to keep yapping and the price will keep falling
Tesla resale values just tanked even more
Where?
are you one of those, oh my 2nd hand telsa never falls in price…even though brand new is now cheaper.
eh? I was just asking for some level of proof - the used pricing on the Model Y seems pretty good resale wise based on carsales. The CHEAPEST LR model is $75k which is pretty much the price of a new one…
@JuryWheel: I upvote you just so you know its not me downvoting you and I thank you for replying too :)
@JuryWheel: If new is $82k and a used is $75k, which would you buy at that price point? So used prices need to fall to match the value of buying a used one that has less warranty and more battery cycles.
@JuryWheel: Just cause it's advertised at that price doesn't mean that's what it's actually being sold for
@JuryWheel: Not ‘based on’, why don’t you sell yours, tell us how that goes. You can always buy a new one for the same money (or close to) if ‘your theory’ is correct?
Thanks for the link. This MY23 Model 3 LR seems like pretty good value actually if you were looking at buying a new one. Would cost $85k driveaway for a new one, this is $67k da https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/m3/order/LRW3F7EK9PC780410?deliv…
Ready stocks. Many people placing orders and receiving the car 2 weeks later.
Tesla is pumping out more cars than the demand. The website quotes Apr to Jun for delivery.
Tesla resale values just tanked even more
Do you have any empirical evidence for this claim?
Have you even looked at the 2nd hand market?
I was considering selling my MYP (would have to do it if I changed job), but this reduction makes it almost impossible now.
The fact that it doesn't have LCT anymore is huge.
I had to pay LCT when I bought it 1y ago, and that makes it basically impossible to put the car on a novated lease now =(Yeah Teslas aren't worth buying - they're overpriced at the current price point and will keep falling, and as Elon keeps tanking the company it will just get worse over time.
This isn't a bargain.
so?
That's the problem with the transparent pricing approach, the legacy way they'd just keep the RRP the same and give bigger and bigger discounts during negotiation rather than dropping RRP.
Does this mean Model Y LR & Model Y Performance were over priced?
Y Performance is a performance car bargain even before they reduced the price.
Wish I could buy one
Never buying a CHINESE vehicle.
Nevef buying a TESLA while they have the interior design flair of a Carboard box
Why not?
racism
Maybe they don't want to help fund the military expansion of a nation that overtly threatens the one they live in?
I mean, every single person here is exposed to a product made in the US.
Do you want me to shine some light on their remarkable history of world peace and harmony?
Do you want me to shine some light on their remarkable history of world peace and harmony?
Please do.
1945 to today is objectively the most peaceful and prosperous time in human history primarily due to US hegemony. Feel free to submit your nomination for any nation that you think has done better.
Perhaps you should learn about the tens of million of people murdered by the CCP and see if you can work out which is worse.
@1st-Amendment: Agree. The US is far from perfect but it's the best thing that has ever happened to this world.
Would you rather live under Communism, Nazis, Fascists, Islamic fundamentalists, European colonialism?
@1st-Amendment: username checks out.
probably loves guns and lives in his grandmas basement with KKK costumes and confederate flags.
but in country NSW.
probably…
So instead of engaging in discussion, you thought that a brain fart would somehow make you look smarter?
How did that work out for you?
You can get a two-fer with Tesla being manufactured in China and profits to the USA!
@Creamsoda: Great question, and worth reflecting upon when they are especially unreliable in recent years.
It’s almost like the post-ww11 arrangements need to be reassessed in light of a changing world.Or we could just buy some nuclear subs and pretend we don’t have to think about it.
It’s almost like the post-ww11 arrangements need to be reassessed in light of a changing world.
They are on a daily basis.
and pretend we don’t have to think about it.
Just because you haven't thought about it doesn't mean other people haven't thought about
Why is supporting the largest military empire in history a good thing?
Depends if it yours or your enemy's.
Supporting your own military to be the biggest and best ensures that your way of life is secure. Supporting your enemy's military is a short path to destruction. Security is better than destruction by most people's standards.@1st-Amendment: Why does the world need endless enemies? What makes you think a single overwhelming power is a good thing when that power can do what ever it wants and say what ever it wants with out repercussions exactly like a Dictatorship? What if that power go astray and start endless wars/destruction? who's there to balance it like our muti-party Democracy system? The world should never have a single hegemon just like i don't support dictatorships.
Didnt know 'TomCruise' hate chinese products?
Because CCP touched his peepee while filming mission impossible 3.
And no one likes your PHASED out HOLDEN.
O wait, the P platers and now all suspended.
Chinese EVs appear to be holding up well so far. Long term reliability TBC but if they have that its gg no re to established brands imo.
is this the 2024 model?
Yes if you are ordering now you will get 2024 build
Real question;
I have to replace my phone every 3 or so years because the battery becomes less and less usable over time, what happens to all these EVs after 5 years of use and harsh Australian conditions (parked in the sun for 8 hours a day all through summer etc).Are they all going to have batteries at 60% capacity?
I think I heard somewhere dealers won't touch a Tesla that is 5 years old at all because the batteries need full replacement by then?
Are we headed for a cliff on depreciation because of this + the ever ongoing discounting that is happening?I think I heard somewhere dealers won't touch a Tesla that is 5 years old at all because the batteries need full replacement by then?
hence why 2017 models are so cheap on carsales. The batteries are toast.
Yeah that's kind of what I'm seeing, $38k for a 2019, that's about 50% depreciation in 4 years, which seems faster than petrol.
My 13 year old Honda is worth about 50% what I paid on 2013 by comparison.Where are you seeing this?
Not a good comparison, but I'm sure you know that. Cars depreciate very rapidly in the first couple of years then more slowly thereafter. When you bought your Honda it had already passed the worst depreciation stage. Your "50% in 4 years" includes that stage.
@banana365: While this has been true for ICE vehicles, I feel this this may not ring true for EVs… I have a feeling once an EV hits 10 years old, almost no one will want one unless it's dirt cheap for fear of the $20,000~ battery failure.
I know the Nissan leaf was an early design EV, but almost no one wants one of those now.
@Binchicken22: You can't really compare the Leaf with its 14 year old battery technology with a current EV with new battery technology 10 years down the line. The two vehicles aren't starting from the same position.
@banana365: It's true that different vehicles types have different depreciation curves. But you almost never see the EV people talking about the significant 10 year+ market. All those people at the lower incomes will not be buying a 10 year old+ EV that has terrible range and the potential to cost $10k+ to repair.
So EV's depreciate rapidly, then even more rapidly, whereas something like a Japanese or Korean hatch will stabilise over time.@1st-Amendment: I don't think I've ever seen any vehicle manufacturer talk seriously about 10+ year second hand market, whether it's ICE or EV. It's partly that they don't care, they've made their money (which is certainly preferable to some sort of subscription model) and, for EVs, partly that technology is changing quickly enough that there's no reliable historical data to extrapolate from.
There are also unknown external influences; who'd have predicted a virus driving the increase in cost of second hand cars?
..which models?
https://www.tesla.com/en_au/support/vehicle-warranty
8 year battery warranty for a minimum of 70% retention.
I love how you downvoted the comment when you literally just linked to something that is pretty much on par with what the OP posted (60% vs 70%)
Also 8 years vs 5 years?
8 years at 70% is not "pretty much on par" with 5 years at 60%.
70% at 8 years is quite different to 60% at 5 years…
And I'll downvote it again.
Worth noting too that if they are prepared to warranty that, they probably expect it to be pretty significantly above that. There's data on a lot of the Model Ss (that first shipped in 2013 ie 11 years ago) that shows they hold their charge very well (some degradation of course).
That’s why I believe that unless battery tech massively changes, Toyota’s bet on hybrid instead of full electric vehicle is a sensible one. Atleast for the next 15 years.
Nobody is buying Hybrid anymore. The Toyota Prius has been discontinued in Australia, after making less than 100 sales last year
You're ignoring the other hybrids in the range that are selling by the bucketload? To the extent that Toyota have stopped doing pure ICE cars in many of the ranges?
@spackbace: They are pursuing Hydrogen and only came out with a Full electric car in Australia this year.
They are behind not ahead.@spackbace: The growth in sales of electric vehicles (EVs), specifically battery electric vehicles (BEVs), has been outpacing that of hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs) in Australia for 2023. While both segments have seen increases, the EV market share jumped from 1.8% to 7.4% in just 12 months, indicating a faster growth rate for pure electric vehicles compared to hybrids (CarExpert) (MarketersMedia).
Are you serious when you said nobody is buying Hybrid in Australia? Prius is not the only Hybrid in Australia.
The Prius was an early hybrid model. They've since made most of their range available in hybrid, so little reason to buy the weird, ostentatiously hybrid version.
lol what? Toyota sold nearly twice as many hybrids last year as Tesla sold cars.
They had to stop taking orders of hybrid Camrys in Australia last year because they couldn't keep up with production.
its fugly design had a huge factor, the new prius looks v cool but they aren't bringing it in due to fugly ones not selling well in the past.
hybrid sales are up 165% this month. Lots of people are buying hybrids
(profanity) lol. I bought a brand new Hybrid Rav4 last year.
You do realize that there are more Hybrids than just the Prius right?
Clear demonstration of how little you know.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-aut…
Nobody is buying Hybrid anymore
Lol what is Camry…
I think Toyota wants hydrogen tech to come into play. They spend billions on the tech
They probably want it because they now realise how far China are ahead on current EV battery tech.
No idea if Hydrogen for passenger vehicles even has a life.. California closing down Hydrogen stations, it's uncertain right now.
https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-to-develop-bz-electric-…
I'll just leave this here.. Toyota so invested in Hydrogen for so long and finally buckle to the pressure.
BYD rubbing their hands together. This model was recently released in AU.. article is from 2021 :)Yep, believe the EU makers are doing the same, Merc delayed their EV transition plan because of slowing EV demand.
That makes sense, but hasn't eventuated, Hybrid owners are moving to EVs.
Why? Jury is out, Plug In Hybrids expose consumers to the benefits of EVs but still have all the drawbacks of an ICE vehicle (added weight, service costs, complexity) all for extra range, which 99% of people don't need until they go on holidays and need to stop for bio breaks anyway.
EVs don't need range, as ideally every morning you leave with a full charge, and who the heck drives 400k without a bio break everyday. Those that do won't be purchasing EVs soon.
There definitely would be varying factors but this article was from last year: https://insideevs.com/news/664106/tesla-battery-capacity-deg…
Although it doesn't seem bad, it is still a factor for all EVs.
My phone has 87% capacity after 3 years. Also to note that in equivalent charging cycles that should be 6 years for car battery or may be more.
Phones don't really have any heat management mechanisms built in for the batteries (other than throttling) so are more vulnerable to heat issues. Draining the batteries to 0% and keeping them 100% also affect their longevity. But planned obsolescence and all that for phones.
EVs (generally?) have much more complicated systems which monitor their temperatures to keep them within optimum ranges, as well as systems to prevent the battery from completely drained or charged to 100% (i.e when it says it's at 0%, there's probably still some capacity left in it, it just won't let you use it). A lot more engineering involved in the cars.
You've asked a reasonable question.
The thing is - an EV's battery cannot be compared to batteries you are used to in phones, tablets and other devices.
Why? Well the major reason is thermal management - all (good) EV's will manage the thermals of the battery pack. Heat kills batteries, as does pulling high current when the battery isn’t at a good temperature (EV’s wont allow you to do this).
But even ignoring that, there are other reasons. You probably charge your phone once a day, but an EV (using average driving distances as the benchmark) can go a week without charging. You said you find the battery in your phone starts to diminish after 3 years – that means over 1000 charge cycles. A base Model Y gets about 400km from a charge, so those 1000 charge cycles mean 400,000km driven.
And it gets better still. Your phone probably charges rapidly – probably in an hour or two. Most EV charging is done on slow AC charging that takes 8-24hrs (depending on battery capacity and charge rate) to fully charge. Of course you can charge faster at public DC chargers, but most people will be charging while they sleep. This gentle charging further prolongs battery longevity.
Add all this up and it is reasonable to expect the battery to outlive the rest of the vehicle. Particularly for EV’s with an LFP battery chemistry.
The battery in my car has active cooling, the battery in your phone doesn't. It's also different designs, phones aim to be as light as possible but on a car you've got a little more wiggle room. There's also that cars cycle their charge at a much slower rate - I charge my phone daily, my car usually once every week or two.
Plus the battery tech is improving immensely in cars. CATL (the world's largest battery maker) is saying their new one will have zero degradation on the first thousand cycles. If I charge once a week, that's 20 years. Their warranty is 15 years/1.5 million kms. To date, Tesla's have shown pretty resilient batteries.
Plus what will happen with all these EVs is the batteries will be sold for storage purposes and a replacement put in. My car has a 50kwh battery, even at 60% capacity that's 30kwh, enough to power my house for several days. There will be a huge market for those batteries in the future.
There will be a huge market for those batteries in the future.
And so what will that do to the value of current stock?
This is a massive side-effect with any rapidly improving technology, it creates rapid obsolescence for anything even a few years old. That doesn't sound great fro something that supposed to 'save the environment'.I don't get what you mean, current stock of what? EVs can be fitted with new batteries, old batteries will go into grid/property storage and no one is going to rip their powerwall off their house just because they can get a higher density one than they could before, if anything leave it there and supplement it with a new one. Batteries aren't becoming obsolete, they're still storing power and still usable.
Once a battery truly hits end of life, recycle it. Batteries are made up expensive metals that are far cheaper to recycle than get virgin metals in most cases. The overall global demand for battery storage is unlikely to drop anytime soon, so it'll just keep on getting plowed back into the same use case.
current stock of what
EV's. Who is buying a crap old EV if the new models are so much better?
old batteries will go into grid/property storage
Is that what they told you. Where are all these old used battery property storage solutions that I can buy today?
Batteries are made up expensive metals that are far cheaper to recycle
So cheap that no-one in Australia has managed to work out a way to do it…
EV's. Who is buying a crap old EV if the new models are so much better?
You may have noticed but the entire car industry is built around "better" cars coming along every year.
People will buy old EVs because they are cheaper. Much like people buy used cars because they are cheaper.
Is that what they told you. Where are all these old used battery property storage solutions that I can buy today?
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Technology/BYD-s-EV-battery…
I said "will". The reason being that car batteries are made to last at least 10 years and the number of EVs in Australia that are more than 10 years old can be measured in the hundreds.
So cheap that no-one in Australia has managed to work out a way to do it…
It sucks being in Australia, where we have no idea how things work and are unable to implement things that are working overseas.
We don't recycle here (well, we do - https://www.ecobatt.net/) because of the small scale. But it's easy to do. Right now we mostly ship overseas for old batteries, that doesn't make it impossible (or even hard).
People will buy old EVs because they are cheaper
Noone is going to be buying an old car with a terrible range and potential $10k+ liability.
@1st-Amendment: Lol, "Terrible range" as in 200km that costs next to nothing to recharge, if it's only $10k people will snap them up rather than pay for petrol. Have you seen some of the cars on the road? They barely look like they'll make it to the next petrol station. Anyone still driving a mid-90s hyundai will jump at the chance of a cheap EV instead. They will sell, it just depends at what price.
Anything less than 8 years old will still be under warranty. Once those come of age, batteries will be way cheaper than $10k, new ones in cars will be less than $4k by years end. The rest of the car is really reliable. If the battery is a risk, someone will buy the car cheap, replace it and have a perfectly good car to keep driving.
The good thing about batteries is they tend to just keep degrading. The risk of it getting a lot worse quickly is small, smaller than the risk taken with any shitbox car.
Lol, "Terrible range" as in 200km
The original Leafs are under 100km some under 50km.
I don't know anyone who would pay for that.
The good thing about batteries is they tend to just keep degrading.
This is a good thing to you? So that 50km Leaf will soon be 40km? Then 30km? This is your sales pitch?
I prefer a car that I can drive somewhere and then get back home again.The original Leafs are under 100km some under 50km.
I don't know anyone who would pay for that.Replace the battery then. A Leaf that old can even get a bigger battery put in for less than $10k. Or scrap it.
It's the same as buying a car with a blown engine, you wouldn't do it unless fixing it is much cheaper but the battery would just be recycled and the car scrapped if it's not worth doing, same as any car. Leafs with little range aren't representative of the EV market in the future, nor the batteries I was talking about though.
This is a good thing to you? So that 50km Leaf will soon be 40km? Then 30km? This is your sales pitch?
I prefer a car that I can drive somewhere and then get back home again.I prefer to read someone's entire comment and take it in context rather than create a misleading response based on cutting out a snippet. And then you pretend that a Leaf with a 50km range is actually a real thing people have to regularly deal with.
You hate EVs, I've got it. But let's bring this back to reality here, we're in a thread about the Model Y. The top selling EVs are Teslas and BYDs, not Leafs (and even those have much bigger batteries now). My original argument about the future of batteries still stands perfectly fine, you've yet to explain what's actually wrong with it, just gone down rabbit holes.
Replace the battery then.
So buy a $10k car and then spend $10k+ on a new battery? This is your solution for all the people that want a cheap old car?
Or scrap it.
So buy a $10k car then throw it away. Even better!
It's the same as buying a car with a blown engine
Yeah which is why almost no-one does that, hence why no-one will be buying the thousands of old EVs with batteries on their last legs when they can get an ICE car for cheaper that lasts longer.
And then you pretend that a Leaf with a 50km range is actually a real thing people have to regularly deal with.
It is.
Here's the first result I found on Carsales. https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2012-nissan-leaf-ze…
Claimed range 85km, which assuming you don't drive it to zero gives a practical range of about 60km. And as we agree "they tend to just keep degrading" so 60km becomes 50 pretty quickly, then 40 etc. How many people do you think will buy into that?
This is a real thing that old EV owners have to deal with. Why are you pretending that it's not?You hate EVs,
False assumption. I'm just aware that newer, better, cheaper things make older things devalue quicker. A concept you've failed to grasp.
This is the problem with fanboys, they are blind to the realities presented to them.you've yet to explain what's actually wrong with it
I did that in my first response, try reading it sometime…
It's not comparable to a phone battery with 2 lithium ion cells. EVs like Tesla's have over 7000+ cells. The wear is distributed evenly over them.
Teslas have been on Australian roads since 2012. Reports seem to be about 10% degredation over 250,000 kms.
https://gizmodo.com.au/2018/04/tesla-battery-degradation-und…
https://www.whichcar.com.au/advice/when-do-ev-batteries-need…
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/11/25/how-long-does-a-tesla-b…This Byron Bay airport taxi driver had his 2018 Model S battery replaced at 666,000km. The new 90kw model S battery replacement cost $26,800.
https://acapmag.com.au/2024/01/australian-tesla-clocks-70000…
Owner says it will still worth it as the EV saved him $20k each year in fuel and servicing over the past 6 years.The model 3 and Y have a 57kw - 75 kw battery, costing about $16,800 to replace.
Any yes, EV batteries are being recycled
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2xrarUWVRQDo remember that fast charging at super chargers lowers the life of the battery.
Cost of EV ownership will keep going up as energy prices rise and govt introduces new taxes to replace ICE and petrol related taxes.
True, the goverment will have to replace petrol related taxes to fund road construction. VIC government did this 2021-2023. It was about an extra $300 per year. They got shut down as only the federal government can charge a fuel tax. Still, I used to pay $2200 a year in fuel, now I pay about $150 a year in electricty for my Model 3. Calculation: https://imgur.com/a/wCQFcdK I have not included free solar power or 25c/kw superchargers for interstate trips.
Even if everything doubled: Fuel tax was $600 per year and electricity was $300 per year, I'd still save $1300 a year compared to petrol.
I charge my EV for free between 11am-2pm and for 0.08c overnight with Ovo. No solar panels needed.
https://pages.ovoenergy.com.au/the-ev-planIt will be very interesting to see what happens to electricity prices. Demand for fossil fuels is expected to peak in 2030, then slowly decrease. Who knows if supply/demand will remain in balance. Hopefully solar and big batteries will continue to drive down electricty prices. We currently have a surplus of power in the day, resulting in free power for everyone 11am-2pm.
So …
1) a commodity lithium polymer battery with no structural integrity, no active cooling system and a cheap plastic case, manufactured by low-cost operators
is equivalent to
2) a fully rigid structured battery, with decade's of technology improvement, manufactured by a top-five battery manufacturer, an active cooling system and an advanced battery management system.Hey. You want to buy a bridge?
Not only that what happens when the companies release software updates and now both the performance and range is severely limited to what it was marketed as in the name of battery degradation? They do it with phones, neive to think it won't happen with cars
my phone battery dropped to 82% after 3 years and 1000+ recharge cycles. 1000 cycles means 350,000km.
Battery degradation slows down over time as well
Big price drop. Nice.
Would increase current owner depreciation as residual values go down.
Lol nope. They'll still try and sell their Teslas at almost RRP until they realise no-one wants it.
That seems to be a bit of a failing that many people have in Australia. They think that whatever money they "invest" (ha!) in a vehicle warrants some sort of return, even if it's just in the form of lower depreciation. A prime example is people adding kit to their 4WD. Just because they've spent a few grand on a winch, lift kit, bar work etc. they talk about how much a car "owes them" when trying to sell it. It might help the price a little, but only by a small fraction of what they've spent.
Eventually Yes
What advantages does this motorcar have over say, a train - which I could also afford?
More E's and more V's
Model 3 prices are still showing $61900 for RWD; with ORC $66300. Ah, looks like you have updated the post just with Model Y :)
Seems to be a response/in anticipation of Kia's EV5 announcement which will fall around this price range or maybe just under…also built in China so they'll have fairly decent stock
After sitting in Kia EV1(80k) and EV9(130k) I concluded it's far too expensive compared to Tesla to be a true competitor
Side mirror cameras are also a gimmickKorean cars are trying to piggyback on EVs to position themselves as premium as against their current image of utilitarian vehicles but the strategy is gradually failing.
The EV5 is on a different platform and is made in china to get the pricing to the Tesla model Y levels, it won't have the charging capability the EV6/9 have but most of the other bells and whisltes are there, i would have loved to give the EV9 a go but not paying those prices for a Kia. I'll give it a test drive when it's out and see if its spacious enough for us, it's a good option for those who have companies who allow novated leases, minus GST and pay for it pre-tax (still not as good as having cash but not everyone has that :) )
Look up Kia EV sales vs Tesla in Australia before coming up with nonsense such as this.
Yes because that tells me why they have a cheaper option coming to compete with Tesla modelY at volumes that BYD and Tesla produce … Why don't you go do some research before coming up with your nonsense reply.
And I am telling you that they wont be competitive looking at the pricing of their current EV products vis a vis Tesla. They have to match the spec, tech, range, efficiency and price, not just price.
No Tesla have regularly been cutting price, nothing new here.
Has the Y changed much since it was launched? I know the 3 has recently had a fairly significant change (i have seen quite a few on the roads recently) but the Y seems the same still. RE used pricing, the cheapest Y is $57k which is a 2022 with 30k on the odo - seems like theyve held pretty well, no?
Biggest change will be removal of USS. Also addition of pws and parcel shelf.
Model Y refresh delayed till 2025.
Not worth buying secondhand but prices have held up wellImproved suspension and the unfortunate removal of USS
Few of my workmates own a Model 3/Y and good lord, the last time i heard so many squeaks and rattles was from the 2nd hand 90's hyundai excel I used to take to uni.
Not having engine sounds make you notice lot more rattling and creaking sounds 🤭🤭🤭
Cool story but sounds like BS.
Rode in the back of a 5 day old Y last week, and the ride was too harsh/firm for me and heard a number of rattles which drive me mad.
go take the new model 3 out, dead silent inside.
Yeah went for a test drive of the Y, the suspension was an immediate hard no, I cant believe anyone bought that thing.
Was one of the newer ones or 1-2 years ago, they've improved the suspension as per https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AjHyp1IHXY
Looks like EV hype is finally coming to an end with Hybrids sales soaring in the Norther Hemisphere. No wonder we are seeing a huge discount on them recently. Hopefully we catch up with them soon.
• Electric-Vehicle Shoppers Hesitate, Hybrid Sales Surge
• US automakers race to build more hybrids as EV sales slow
• EV Sales Pace Is Running Short Of Power Going Into 2024
I am totally down with Toyota betting on hybrids instead of 100 battery.
Yep, I also support Toyota accelerating their own demise.
Toyota are betting on Hydrogen, they themselves do not see a future in hybrids.
Hypothesis: It makes sense really, since all those who were ready to buy have slowly adopted as they sussed out the market, and so that pool has reduced and its now the slower feed of live transitions from not-ready-for-EV into ready-for-EV which dominates sales but at a lower rate. With hybrids there is very little to transition to. The only trade off is some increased complexity in your car.
I'm open to both hybrid and pure EV. I'm a little bit indecisive on which way to go.
The only reason hybrids are taking off is that the big 3 have gone into survival mode before they are gone, Stalantis is already dead, they just haven’t announced it, Jeep hasn’t made new parts for any of its cars for 2 years, its impossible to get Jeeps even brand new ones repaired.
Fords going to need another bailout so have flipped from “buy our EVs” to telling customers EVs are dead as they make 10s of thousands in loss with each one they sell so they have stopped production just to survive
If other counties like China etc are making huge gains with EV and Tesla has reduced its output to still be higher than the rest combined during high inflation thats not because people don’t want them, its because people cant afford them, they are trying to pay bills and feed their families.
ICE is dead, Hybrids a stop gap and more expensive to run as more parts, more issues. Fuel cells a joke advertised as clean when it’s just as dirty to produce as ICE.
This slow down is a correction and it will take off again once the US gets the USD to be less worthless than it normally is and inflation gets under control globally.
Stellantis share price is going great!!
Even the Biden Administration estimates that electric cars will make up only 21% of new car sales in 2050…this means that just 13% of all cars in 2050 will be electric. Tulip bulbs and Snake Oil.
https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/narrative/consumption/sub-t…
But its also good to note possible reasons why (for example discontinuation of subsidies in Germany, change of policy in France etc.)
think petrol in US is cheaper than in other major markets so that might be a deciding factor
Does this bring the Performance under the luxury car tax limit for novated lease for EVs?
Yes it does.
No FBT for EVs < $89,332. Looks like the No-Frills (White) Performance is eligible. Nice!
Tossing up between the Model Y Performance and the BYD Seal Performance for $16k cheaper 🤔
Test drive both and then make your decision.
@Heybargain: they are different even just sitting inside … the seal isn’t like byd lower models, much nicer.
I just picked up my Model Y last week.
$2k drop is nice. This is why I will return the car after 3 years lease. The depreciation will be tremendous.No squeaks or rattles at this current time and just clocked 1000km.
You know you need to pay for any deficit between the pay out and the cars value, right? You don't get to just hand the keys over and walk away.
What are you paying for the lease over the 3 years?
https://www.amazon.com.au/nextzett-91480615-Gummi-Pflege-Rub… No squeaks hey - buy now thank me later.
Tremendous depreciation compared to what?
Anything from Europe falls into a hole after warranty runs out, many are very difficult to sell at any sort of good price.
The only exception seems be be Toyota RAV4s etc but even they dip heavily.
Plus EVs are on a cheapening cycle while ICE cars are doing the opposite.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Model 3 is $50k new here in three years with their small car at $35k.
ICE cars will be wiped out.
ICE cars will be wiped out.
LOL. Good luck with that.
How do you suggest lower socio-economic families will survive when they can no longer buy a car for under 5K?
By wiped out I mean new ICE cars. Their economies of scale and supply chain will collapse. Cars are only affordable because they are made in such high volumes. The ICE supply chain and EV supply chain are mostly different.
ICE cars will then cost much more than EVs but have high maintenance costs and dramatically higher fuel costs. Game over.
Remember when Ford abandoned Australian production in 2016? The Australian parts supply chain could not survive on two automakers. Toyota and Holden quit a year later.
The same sort of thing will happen worldwide but slower.
Secondhand ICE cars will persist until the Greenies ban them here.
Just a prediction.
The car isn't brand new. I wouldn't buy a phone well after it releases and complain when there is a discount shortly after.
No, thanks
Shipping kills it for me
- $1,400 Delivery feeMessage Musk on twitter and ask him to drop it to $420. I bet he'd do it.
He said, I'm fired
I think you mean X (Formerly Twitter)
check with your employer because many have a tie up with Tesla for $0 delivery fees.
Corporate program ended in 2022
this brings the driveaway price closer to what it was last year when most states didn't have stamp duty on it, like NSW
BYD is way better than Tesla.
So if you could get a free
BYD Seal or a free Tesla Model 3 what would you choose?I own both. The Tesla is better. But you would hope so because it costs more. The BYD is very good value for money.
Need to charge on a public holiday? Prepare to wait in a line.
and plan your trip as your car wants to rather than how you want to.
Would you say EVs ruin the weekend?
they demand more and deliver less. hydrogen EVs are the solution, BEVs are not.
@backupper1: Go and buy one then. Oh wait.
Even if you could buy one have fun trying to fill it up.
BEV? Fill it up at home. Easy.
@tp0: its very easy to generate hydrogen using a batter and water, there is no reason it cannot be commercialised for a home top up.
@backupper1: There is, you need to compress it as at atmospheric pressure the volume required to be useful in a vehicle would be ridiculous. The idea that you could just make it at home falls apart at many aspects, compression, net energy gain etc. It's basic science mostly physics.
Or just charge at home like most people do.
Living in Australia and still worried about public holiday. Bruh, we only have 3-5 PH lol.
Go to Philippines and you know what is PUBLIC HOLIDAYS all about lol.
obviously because AU is far different to PH, e.g. pag pag chicken is famous in PH but its unimaginable in AU.
Then how it affects the charging? You feed your family with Pagpag?
@backupper1: Since you are a Rabbitohs fan. I will happily accept your comment. The most "distinctive" people.
I know the common thread here will be depreciation and battery woes etc.
But colleague has a Model S P85D from 2015/2016 thereabouts. Had a good mix of charging home and supercharger etc, but mostly home. 150k km
Battery range has dropped maybe 30-40km and maybe that's hovering around 10% degradation etc.
For his use case and retiredness, it'll be a forever car to him since there's not much point to upgrade since the motors are tip top still, brakes are still on original set and electrically all is good, Tesla quoted a replcement battery for $14k if it came to that and would be like new again.I mean it's not going to be a popular opinion here but i'm finding that there's less of a need/desire to change cars every x years with EV platforms. Like sure there's some newer tech etc and fancier things to be had but 10 year old Model S still looks, feels and drives like new minus a bit less range at full charge..
Is it more the "depreciation" sell it before it's worth less and not sunk cost and let someone else ride it out till nil value or a need to change with newer features/designs/fashions?
Mathematically speaking say over a lifetime;
Buy car for $100k for example, depreciates 10% a year or something, and sell/leaseback 3 yearly; and buy new, rinse repeat.
Or
Buy car for $100k, ride it out and say lose 50% over longer term, then sell and pay the upgrade.
are they going to be much financially different these two approaches..P85D is a cracker car loaded with practical stuff as well. It won’t make any sense to move off it to half baked model 3 or Y.
Model S built much more differently than Model 3 or Y
Technically it should last a really really long time before you'll need to replace the battery, controller or motors. In theory it should outlast a petrol car.
But the issue is the same as with any piece of electronic equipment/appliance.
One day a laptop could be working perfectly fine, turn it off, dead the next morning. Same with an audio amplifier, or a solar powered garden light, washing machine.
I'm scared of EVs just throwing error codes and putting the car into limp mode randomly. And you can't fix it yourself… it always needs to be brought into the dealer. (There aren't many independant shops that fix them).
A petrol car usually never fails like a switch. Either it'll be hard to start, leak oil/coolant, blow smoke, etc. And even then there are tonnes of engines at the wreckers.
I love EVs, but until the day parts and sofrware are sold to the public. I refuse to buy an EV.
I am waiting until they start at $50k
Model 2 in the works might hit that
Referee no longer gets any discounts, referrer just gets 7500 credits or something to buy free merch
Damn that sucks. Was $750 off or something when I bought mine. Guess the price drops meant they got the axe
They have enough demand it no longer makes sense to discount referrals
The Chinese just got off their chair and the EV makers started trembling. Once they come out in full force it would be a wipe out unless the EV makers get their act together.
Provided they don’t wipe them self out first.
There’s only one Chinese EV maker making money the rest are loosing money.
Finally positive changes in prices.
MG Is slashing by $1000
Hyundai/ Mitsubishi etc are offering $1000-3000
Tesla / BYD is discounting by few Ks
Toyota is having shorter waiting timesFinally car companies greed is getting over or Covid hangover vanishing or no more excess money 💰 with people…
Performance just under LCT threshold now - that's an easy sales pump
Ozbargain people are loaded to be able to afford these. Cars are a depreciating liability. Better to buy a second hand unit if you want to save money.
Just because you like a bargain doesn’t mean you don’t have any money or don’t like good things.
These forums are full of Millionaires and Billionaires upvoting save $5 deals.
Or better yet - the Shopback deals where you can get $1 for free. They're some of the most upvoted deals on here even though the amount is not even worth going through the hassle for.
But used ones are more expensive! maybe not for long
Really? Even with all the negative sentiment?
If you do a lot of KMs (30,000+ a year for me) and can do a novated lease they actually just make a lot of sense financially.
Due to my KMS and having a big solar system at home, buying an EV was borderline a "free" car vs petrol and servicing my ICE car.
Wish this price cut happened on Feb when I was on the market for a new car. Hopefully in 5 years time EV prices would be better priced
wake me when its sub $40k, its all that its worth really
Gumtree with 200k km record is your chance with your $40k. Keep sleeping.
i mean i wouldn't even pay $40k for this POS but ok
Spoken like someone who has never been in one
where does it say there is no more USS and comes with HW4? I thought it was only the updated Model 3 that had this?
JAN 24 build Model Y still has USS
Mine is September 2023 build and does have USS
Overpriced eneloops on wheels
What is an ICE car then - an overpriced smoke machine which needs dinosaur juice to run?
still over priced
Any recommendations on something better value?
Nah, he just want to comment here.
2009 toyota corolla
prob typical person that thinks anything more than their own ideal price is overpriced.
500km range, utter garbage. Wake me up when we move to hydrogen. Electric is useless junk.
have you seen how expensive hydrogen is?
Not only in $ value to refill and also no such infra currently exists. But imagine, you can potentially blow up more than just your car if it were to catch fire.
My servo only supplies hydrogen with carbon, but apparently they will all have pure hydrogen soon and it will be free because it is made with nuclear energy
You realise if you have a driveway you can top up that 500km every single day, for an absolute fraction of the cost of petrol?
Anyone else waiting for plug in hybrids? In my mind they're the holy grail: pure EV mode around town, hybrid model when going on road trips where you can fill up wherever/whenever
what could go wrong… two drive trains… more things to fail and maintain
And then gov changes laws like they did in nz and tax you twice =)
I dont think it is the ultimate solution, instead, it only exists because EV is not yet perfect at this moment (but getting there), it is just a product for this transition period. Similar to 10 years ago some touchscreen phones also had physical full-size keyboards….. Now who uses it?
EV mode around town carrying a load of moving parts that are not in use (engine, transmission etc), ICE model carrying heavy battery that is not in use… So you don't get the beauty from either being purely ICE or EV, but the hassle from both sides.
That's a fair comment.
I guess I'll stick to ICE for a few more years until charging infrastructure is more established outside the citiesHow many kms do you drive per day? I've owned an EV for 2 years and never used a public charger. For reference we've clocked 40k kms on the odometer in the 2 years.
@gyrex: I think the question should be how OFTEN do you do road trips and WHERE are you travelling up to. Most people just over think then spend money on something that they never use: e.g. Non stop driving for 7 hours….. Driving to outback that has no charging station
@dajackal Read my comment below that I wrote to someone admiring his mate's car can go 700km…
"hope your mate's bladder has that range as well (just a joke).
Most people need to pee every 2-3 hours, and for safety purpose you need to stretch or eat lets say 15-20mins …taking that time to supercharge your car is more than enough. I have done a few times Sydney Mildura Adelaide, Adelaide Melbourne Sydney never had any range anxiety, more and more charging stations are being built, and every hour or so you will have a charging station.
Of course, if you are driving to Urulu that's another story."
I'd rather wait for higher capacity batteries.
PHEV = maintaining both a battery and combustion system. Sounds horrible. One of the main benefits of EVs is the simplicity with no real servicing.
I know there are many rich people on OzB, but has everyone paid off their houses, so they are happy to spend $65k+ on a car? Or just cannot afford a house anymore, so spending on a car?
option b for sure
You can put a bed in Tesla. so best option
For this price one can buy a used car + mobile home
but you cant wake up looking at the sky
ozb is run by a bunch of teals that own their home with solar and like to preach everyone how good their life choices are
Yes to all except the teal bit.
Definitely not a teal, but was able to buy my own home and get solar after many years in the workforce.
Waited a long time for a bargain deal on a used EV because it's so affordable to run. Even if you don't give a fig about the environment, solar + EV is a great combination for lower cost of living.
I love OzBargain because I'm definitely not rich by any stretch of the imagination and I hate paying more than I have to.
I will never go back to ICE, EV is just plain better for my use.
ok not sure about other states in NSW even though it says $63,900, the driveaway is actually $69242 lol
Check description
yeh sorry didn't factor in, although still more than what I paid in July 2023 without rebate
Edit: it was $68,301 drive away in July
Edit 2: ok haven’t been keeping up to date with rules, NSW charges stamp duty now. ;(
was 72000 driveaway with about 2.2k stamp duty rebate
prices have gone up since July last year then. Haven't been checking.
actually mine was with a paint option
Looking to get a second hand EV in a few years time as a metro run about with charging at home at night. Keepping my Hybrid RAV4 for distance trips without any range anxiety.
man my mate got his Rav4 delivered recently 700+km without filling up…now that's a beast lol
Yep,Recently made the Adelaide to Melbourne trip in my hybrid Rav4 without needing a refill. But you can do that in a Diesel vehicle as well.
RAV4 looks good man, enjoy!
hope your mate's bladder has that range as well (just a joke).
Most people need to pee every 2-3 hours, and for safety purpose you need to stretch or eat lets say 15-20mins …taking that time to supercharge your car is more than enough. I have done a few times Sydney Mildura Adelaide, Adelaide Melbourne Sydney never had any range anxiety, more and more charging stations are being built, and every hour or so you will have a charging station.
Of course, if you are driving to Urulu that's another story.Ahhaha fair cal mate
BYO solar panels
do you know how long he had to wait for delivery? I was told 15 months wait in february
My mate waited for almost 19 months and maybe more
for the price of the new paint colours, you may as well get it wrapped!
Not true. A good wrap job costs $5000+ while paint in other colours other than white costs 1.5k or 3k for red
3k for red and silver… can get full vinyl for 4k
Don't most people prefer it white anyway..?
It's 2024 mate. You can't say that.
I have not had a drive of a Y but I have driven a Model 3. Did not seem to be put together that well and once the OMG factor of the acceleration wore off, it felt a bit… Mazda6-ish to me.
Had a close look at the Luxeed S7 in a Huawei showroom in Shanghai last month. If we buy an electric sedan in the next few years, it will be that one or the Xiaomi SU7. The price of both cars look to be around the same as a Y.
Will look at a Y but I am not thinking of it as a serious option at atm. Sorry Elon.Seen the YouTube vids of all the electric car fires in China? :)
That's fine, everyone has their own preferences! Some people love the simple feel of a 3, some don't.
100% agree. I have a mate who has a 3, loves it (and his last to cars were Audi A6s). Says he will never go back to ICE
Just don't plan on going long trips during busy holidays in these just yet.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13262449/Tesla-char…iTesla zombies disagree.
Yeah this made news because its a bit out of the ordinary (just as petrol station queues make news when oil shortages happen or prices are about to skyrocket).
For me, I drove up to Port Macquarie over Easter in my Model Y and didn't need to stop at all. Stopped at Sovereign Place Town Centre about 10 mins from Port Mac to get some groceries before checking in to our accommodation and car charged from 20% to 75% in the 15 mins I was shopping at 1 of the 12 Tesla superchargers there. Was awesome! Only 2 of the 12 chargers were being used including me so was no issue. I went up there 3-4 times over the long weekend and there were never more than 2-3 cars using one of the 12 chargers.
Meanwhile, I drove past the Petrol station a few times and there were cars queueing to fill up before taking off and my charging cost $50 all up for the 4 days whilst last year when we did the same trip in my wife's car, we spend about $250 on petrol.
So spend $69000 to save $200? In 5 years will it be worth it?
What a dumb argument. So was your ICE car free? I have one of each and the EV cost about $75K and the ICE car about $95K, so about $20K more than the EV. There seems to be some braindead view that EVs are for the 'rich' when actually, they're priced pretty well. They're not at all 'rich (profanity)' cars.
As someone who owns one of each:
My EV charging costs in the last 12 months - $50 (mostly charge during my OVO energy plan's 3 free hours)
My EV servicing/repair costs - $0
Petrol costs - $0 (obviously)
Grand total in terms of running costs for the last 12 months - $50My ICE car petrol costs in the last 12 months - $2800
My ICE car servicing/repair costs in the last 12 months - $3500 (including a few repairs for parts that were leaking oil etc)
Grand total in terms of running costs for the last 12 months - $6300As someone who owns both, I would bet if I add up all costs for the 2 cars across the next 5 years and factor in what I lose in depreciation once I sell, the 10% gap in depreciation rate will be MORE than covered by the running costs I saved on. I'm saving over $6K a year on running costs on the EV vs the ICE car it replaced
@dontbeatightarse: Ahhhh gotcha so you're just hating because you drive a lil piece of junk
Regardless, as I showed you above, the most popular ICE SUV costs more than the most popular EV SUV, so there is no 'EV premium.'
Glad we could bust this myth for you! LOL
@User889344: No, it's not worth it. I can buy one if I wanted but would never do it. I don't just follow the hordes and I rebel against the system.
@dontbeatightarse: Thats your decision. Good for you. I will likely always have one of each, so I don't have a 'horse' in the race but as I said, I have both sitting in my garage right now and the numbers are definitely stacking up for me even without factoring in the tax savings I will get having the EV on a salary sacrifice. Its just annoying to hear people who don't have experience of both and all the costs associated talking as if they know everything about it…
Driving a friend's car for a month doesn't count for anything…..
I sailed on a boat for 6 weeks once. I'm not out here acting like I'm Captain Cook though…
@dontbeatightarse: 'I rebel against the system.' OMG I actually just burst out laughing.
Wowwwwwww you're so edgy and cool…
@dealsucker: What do you mean what's my point? Why would I spend 70k to save $50 a week in petrol? I can get a nice cheap run around. Get in an accident in a Tesla see how "cheap" it gets to replace panels.
@dontbeatightarse: You realise your argument about your cheap Mazda 3 is irrelevant to the EV vs ICE car thing right? Because why would you spend $70K on a new Rav 4 or Hyundai i30 when your Mazda 3 will be way cheaper to insure and run than both.
You should just give up this line of argument. You're lost brother and you've got yourself all tangled up in your own farcical arguments
@User889344: Ohhhh you're so smart and "edgy". My argument is very valid, your Tesla is a hunk of junk. Get in an accident see how "cheap" it gets to fix.
@dontbeatightarse: LOL you are hilariously duuuumbbbbbbbbb…..you've been proven wrong on nearly every single thing you said and yet you continue. You should change your username to dontbeadumbarse
@redfox1200: Those costs apply to both my ICE and EV cars and there is basically no difference, so there was no benefit to including that…
Unfortunately you really need to make things as simple as possible for a lot of people on here
@boretentsu: The Tesla drove about 22K and the ICE car about 12K (my wife just drives to work 15 mins away and back most days). We take the Tesla whenever we're going somewhere together because its essentially free thx to the free charging.
Quick explainer for the free charging - I go to the gym every morning and my local shopping centre the gym is in has 3 free EV charging spots. Between that and the free 3 hours I get on my OVO energy plan each day, I've only needed to pay for charging when we go away for holidays.
@User889344: Mate, let it go.
Since I own an EV, the first thing I learnt was never to spend your time arguing with someone who doesn't own one or has even never had a test drive.
They just don't understand and refuse to, and ironically they are the ones proactively firing the debate for whatever reasons. They pretend they know more than you do, even without owing one.
They would be the same batch of "smart" people riding horses and mocking people driving cars 200 years ago.
@NoBargainNoLife: You're right mate. Its just so nonsensical to hear people talk like they know everything when only a few of us have had both right? I'm just gonna ignore this dude now…he's absolutely lost in his own contradictory arguments
@User889344: Always find it funny when idiots compare price of brand new EV to some old sh!t box ICE car and say EVs are expensive and don't save you any money. Brain dead argument.
@keejoonc: LOL seriously. Dude's dumba$$ argument was that he drives a $4K Mazda around which is SO much cheaper than a Tesla. Mate of course thats cheaper than a Tesla which is cheaper than the Rav 4 I have, both of which are the most popular SUVs in EV and ICE categories respectively.
Brain dead hit the nail on the head mate!
Good for you it works out but the point of the news article is the charging infrastructure needs to catch up and possibly the technology to improve charging times to for make it hassle free and valid for all parts of the country. Queing is not the only issue, the time it takes too. And yes it does apply to a certain extent for ICE vehicles but nowhere near the EVs. Infrastructure hasn't caught up with the recent boom of EV sales whethere you like it or not
Agree the charging infrastructure needs to keep improving. However, its now good enough that you can go for holidays and not have to worry. Thats the only time you'd ever have theoretically had to think about it.
Then the rest of the time, add to that the convenience you get everyday of being able to just plug in at home. Its like having a free petrol bowser in your garage for your ICE car. Thats different to 12 months ago and in 12 months from now, it will be even better.
Took my new M3 on a road trip over Easter from Sydney to Port Macquarie and back with two kids 5 and 1.
Best road trip experience ever. Kids entertained, autopilot on highways amazing, supercharging experience was a breeze.
THIS. What a coincidence we both went to the same place too. I was just writing a comment to the guy above you and my experience was awesome too.
I also drove up to Port Macquarie over Easter in my Model Y and didn't need to stop at all. Stopped at Sovereign Place Town Centre about 10 mins from Port Mac to get some groceries before checking in to our accommodation and car charged from 20% to 75% in the 15 mins I was shopping at 1 of the 12 Tesla superchargers there. Was awesome! Only 2 of the 12 chargers were being used including me so was no issue. I went up there 3-4 times for groceries or for lunch/dinner over the long weekend and there were never more than 2-3 cars using one of the 12 chargers.
Meanwhile, I drove past the Petrol station at Lighthouse shopping centre a few times and there were cars queueing to fill up each time and my charging cost $50 all up for the 4 days whilst last year when we did the same trip in my wife's car, we spend about $250 on petrol.
Yep, it was our first long trip on with the car so while the car said it would make it to Port Macq with 19% remaining we stopped at Heatherbrae and Sovereign Place just to get a break for the kids and charge. Plus I wasn't sure of charging options in Port Macq before the holiday.
Autopilot on the highway meant we were so refreshed going in it didn't feel long at all. Game changer.
The NRMA holiday park with 4 chargers at 22kW (public accessible) and 20c/kwh is a no brainer. Fantastic holiday at cheap prices.
Lowest prices, are just the beginning.
Ive always wanted a Beemer, especially the M3
Pretty sure it's a twin turbo? The wagon looks especially good (obviously except the front end though), but unfortunately you can't have it as a manual for some reason like you can with the sedan
does anyone hate the wooden finish?
Nope….you will get over it
I actually like it more than the other option, white
Lmao m3p down over $20k since my mate bought their one not including depreciation. How are those EV savings looking lads? xD
You act like ICE cars don't also depreciate massively as the tyres hit the road. From the analysis carexpert did, they found on average, EVs depreciate 49% in the first 5 years whilst for ICE cars, its 39%, so just a 10% difference.
However, as someone who owns one of each:
My EV charging costs in the last 12 months - $50 (mostly charge during my OVO energy plan's 3 free hours)
My EV servicing/repair costs - $0
Petrol costs - $0 (obviously)
Grand total in terms of running costs for the last 12 months - $50My ICE car petrol costs in the last 12 months - $2800
My ICE car servicing/repair costs in the last 12 months - $3500 (including a few repairs for parts that were leaking oil etc)
Grand total in terms of running costs for the last 12 months - $6300As someone who owns both, I would bet if I add up all costs for the 2 cars across the next 5 years and factor in what I lose in depreciation once I sell, the 10% gap in depreciation rate will be MORE than covered by the running costs I saved on
You act like ICE cars don't also depreciate massively as the tyres hit the road.
You're acting like EV's don't have a ridiculous premium added. 10% difference in depreciation is a lot larger when you add the extra $20k it costs to buy the EV in the first place.
My ICE car servicing/repair costs in the last 12 months - $3500
That year is an outlier, average the total out over the age of the car and it will be considerably lower.
It wasn't even the highest year in terms of repair costs actually. The 3 years I owned a BMW that was JUST out of warranty cost me nearly $15K in repairs. That $3500 in the last 12 months was probably closer to the average. As if people aren't often paying $300 - $500 for each car service. Even if you look at Mycar servicing costs on their website right now, they advertise it at $269 and thats JUST checking on everything and giving you 8L of 'premium oil.' Heaven forbid you actually need things replaced or there are issues or you're gonna be paying WAY more than that advertised $269
Also what EV premium are you talking about? My ICE car cost $20K more than my EV did. At $63,900 for the Tesla Model Y, its pretty decent pricing for an SUV
Lastly, will petrol prices get lower in coming years? Because if not, I should adjust that to increase each year too
@User889344: You're comparing a premium Euro to an average EV then wondering why the ICE costs more, are you serious right now?
This is why I don't take anyone seriously when they say "My EV costs less than my ICE" because you have no idea if they're comparing it to a 2010 Camry or a 2024 Bugatti.
@cheekymonkey97: My Tesla Model Y - $63,900
My wife's Rav 4 AWD - $64,211
The extra $20K I referenced was what I bought my previous Mercedes CLA for which was replaced with the Tesla.
However, even taking the Rav 4 example (the most popular SUV in Aus), it was more expensive than the Tesla so your claim about a 'ridiculous premium' to quote you is just plain wrong.
Both the Tesla Model Y and the Rav 4 are the 2 most popular SUVs in EV and ICE ranges respectively, so very comparable
Its OK to just admit you were wrong about the 'ridiculous premium' mate. Its a common myth amongst EV haters
Also, keep in mind that BYD cars are a decent amount cheaper than Tesla ones, so actually, you're paying a premium to get a Rav 4 over either a Tesla Model Y or a BYD Atto3
@User889344: He’s clearly a hater never driven an EV. Don’t spend too much energy against a bystander that doesn’t know any better except driving his 50 year old ICE car.
@sauce2k: Facts my man. Some of us have both ICE and EV cars, but sure, I'll take cheekymonkey's myths and lies over my real world experience right? Haha. You can't help some people. LOL
@User889344: You can’t win mate. These guys get an erection each time a news article or social media feed posts something negative about EV.
@sauce2k: Lmao, I drove my aforementioned mates EV around for about a month. Don't get me wrong, I think EV's are the future but to think they save you money is just delulu. You can spin any way you want, but all you EV owners just sound like you're trying to convince yourself more than you are anyone else.
@cheekymonkey97: Mate nobody here is trying to convince anyone, sharing experience that’s all. Thanks for letting us know you have only driven for a month lol, making your comment even less convincing.
If you think saving money driving EV is delusional let’s just stop it right now. I doubt you drove your mate’s car for a month but let’s just say you did, you doing it wrong if you are spending more money charging vs petrol.
Yeh look legend you clearly can do a bit of general maths, however, your comment about EV savings clearly shows you are a hater that reads comments off your social media feeds and have never driven an EV. The saving talks about ongoing cost, no servicing, cheaper to charger etc.
You can't even order a M3P yet so where are you pulling this 20k figure from?
but this is it. surely it can't go any lower.
I have an unshakable belief that battery EVs are merely a stop gap until they get hydrogen working. I just don’t see it as being viable for the long run.
Battery tech has to change, and if it does, I can’t see how Hyrdrogen isn’t a bettery alternative.
Battery tech is always changing.
Hydrogen is not viable yet
Despite toyotas protests
Hydrogen loses something like 10% of its volume due to leakage over the course of a few days (even with the best valves)
Does it continue to lose it over a week, or two?
yeppp. It's a pressure vessel, but because Hydrogen is far smaller than LPG it leaks at much higher rates.
It'd take a step change improvement in hydrogen storage to make it viable.
It's hugely inefficient to compress, store and transport. Safety is always a concern too.
There's no way in heck that hydrogen will ever be as convenient as the electric car charger in my garage.
Did you ever have a pertrol bowser in your garage?
no, and having a charger is a massive improvement on that.
Hallelujah brother! Have faith in hydrogen! It cures what ails you and covets not your weekend.
You realize that Hydrogen cars like the Toyota Mirai just use the Hydrogen cell to charge a battery and power the car with an electric engine. Most people are not even aware of this!
The loss of energy to produce Hydrogen and then to convert the Hydrogen to electricity in the fuel cell will make a pure battery EV always far far more efficient. Hydrogen will never be a better alternative.
Literally what Toyota has been saying to cops for the past 20 years
Given their huge sales miss in the last quarter I would expect more price drops on the horizon.
As much as I doubt Chinese quality . Really need them to shake down the price of those big ev company’s like Tesla
The teslas are also made in china… And of better quality than their made in USA counterparts
And the depreciation schedule of a Tesla further accelerates!
so many comments about this being overpriced…
it was the best selling car of 2023 - WORLDWIDE.
The market has spoken…
https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/tesla-model-y-…
Thank goodness we can say the best selling thing is always the best.
Ignore the xenophobia about Chinese cars. Ignore brand names and marketing. Ignore first mover advantage. Or lack of competition.
If it sells the most, it's clearly the best product right?
Love me a good simple worldview that doesn't require any critical thinking skills at all. :)
it is a really good car though. We are very happy with ours.
I'd be the first to criticise it if I didn't like it.
I'm sure it is a good car. For that money I'd hope it is!
I'm also pretty comfortable you can get the same or better for much cheaper nowadays though.
@DingoBilly: I'm assuming you mean a BYD? A friend has one, yeah it's cheaper but it's sure as heck not "same or better"
Nobody mentioned anything about it being the best product.
Love me a good simple jumping to conclusions…
The pricing is competitive (ie. Not overpriced) and there is obvious demand and perceived value from consumers as is demonstrated by its sales.
Did you read the comment you replied to? They were talking about whether it's overpriced or not and and argued being the best selling car makes it not overpriced because the market doesn't think so.
No where did they mention or implied it's the best car or that being the best selling car is always the best car. That's ludicrous. Do you see anyone saying the base model iPhone which always sells the most, the best phone? It is objectively not, the Pro and Pro Max models are always objectively better. Why don't you and your upvoters retract your statements? The audacity and irony of you to be condescending and talk about critical thinking.
Waiting for juniper
I am also waiting. I'm mainly after the double glazed windows and improved suspension but not the omission of indicator stalk!
Double glazed windows and improved suspension are already on the new Tesla Model Ys
I'm after a built in coffee machine and toaster.
yes i can confirm my 2024 model y already have both. and it is so nice to drive.
Anyone know if the windscreen and rear windscreen are also double glazed or not
Same. Hopefully this year sometime.
Still worse off with the RWD after the incentives got removed…
3k rebate and 2500 stamp duty is better than 1500 price drop
resession is about to happen, interest rate is too high, many companies have gone under, price reduction of goods is coming because people are not spending as much as they use to for these items.
The government would rather full blown inflation than recession
Interest rate cuts coming before Christmas.
Awesome deal and car to buy
Tesla the new APPLE concern for Ozbargain.
Trust me, they will always be present no matter what. Even if they don't have one.
Just like there are two types of phones (iPhones and others), there are now two types of cars (Teslas and non-Teslas) ;-)
thank goodness mines a tax write off
isnt this similar price to a second hand rav4
No, a second hand RAV4 costs more than this
😂😂😂 only if your buying from a toyota stealership
They really are trying to kill off ICE car manufacturers. This is like a Nokia, Siemens and co vs Apple moment
they've also stopped allowing new houses to be built with gas outlets
I wanted to fill my car with natural gas at home. Damn you Elon!!!
Yes I know as I work in gas industry. But what is your point?
Tesla Model Y: RWD $65,700
So, can i expect model 2 to be priced under <$40k
more like 55k
😢
Kia EV5 expected midyear will be around the same price with probably similar range. EV5 may have V2G tech when it launches in Australia so those with a large solar system at home, I suggest holding until EV5 is released.
Haha, Yes!
Would definitely recommend, I'm an owner of a Model 3 from 2021 which now has 276,000km still on original battery still going strong!
What are you, an Uber driver?
Any maintenance costs you want to list?
Tyres , wiper blades, aircon filters,
I run on Facebook the group "Tesla Owners Australia" plenty of posts can be searched up that I've shared on my ownership.
I don't have the Facebook. I have the Ozbargain
Does these Tesla's come with Bidirectional power meaning it can power your house during night or outages?
no… but Hyundai Ioniq does
I reckon BYD also does. I heard new Tesla are also coming with that option.
Both of those do Vehicle to Load (V2L) not to Grid (V2G).
So you can power some devices (fridge or whatever) but not the whole house.
Elon has previously downplayed the utility of these features, but the Cybertruck does V2L
I can imagine the pain for people who recently bought the Model Y
Not a prob, I own a price protection credit card 😜
Bought the Model Y at $67,200 but got the $3k rebate + $2.4k stamp duty rebate + $750 referral discount so still pretty happy
Those black hubcaps look better though!Witht he associated drop of used examples…
Will pull the trigger on a half price sale.
- cashback
It would be out of stock
Not a Tesla, they have a massive backlog of unsold vehicles at the moment. Though yeah a half price sale would see that disappear in a few minutes lol
Release the RHD Model S Plaid and bring back regenerative braking adjustability like ALL other EV's!
Can't you adjust already in a tesla? I seen a video on YouTube that shows 3 options to select
Those are driving modes, not regenerative braking adjustments. They have also completely got rid of those driving modes in the newest Model 3 and most likely the subsequent updates as well. All other EV manufacturers provide some form of adjustability, many even dedicated the paddle shifters behind the steering wheel for easy access.
I can select the regen braking force separately but you have to be in "hold" mode, at least it doesn't work in "creep" mode from what I saw.
@jje: This has been repeatedly discussed before, those modes do not really adjust regenerative braking, they just slightly alter at what speeds it operates.
@jje: OK, adjusting the regenerative braking FORCE, like any other EV's. Anyway, those modes will be gone too, which I don't get why. What's wrong with providing more options to different owners?
Will use my MYLR for the next 10years until the kids have their own car. Then I'll get the S or M3P.
Whatever left from the depreciation will be a bonus.
For those of you still hating on EV, enjoy ICE til it last.A word of advice, EVs are great as long as you have home charging option. Else be ready to spend more time and money at charging stations.
I know a guy who bought a ev and his apartment doesn't allow his to install charger. Strata said no to himI think I will use that amount of money for deposit for my next investment property instead.
All cars depreciate anyway
Only if you need a car, and not happy with a 15 yo Camry
Most probably better to buy $65,700 worth of TSLA shares.
How much is the cheapest ICE coming with panorama rooftop, ventilated/heated/electric adjustable seats, wireless phone charger and go 0-100 in less than 7sec?
Looks like they are trying to clear stock before Model 3 Ludicrous is released.
The 'Apple EV' car will be the game changer won't it? Regardless of how good it is any iSheep who have ever contemplated an EV purchase will hand their money over as soon as they can order.
No chance. Apple has cancelled the development of its electric car project.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-02-27/apple-can…That's interesting, thanks for the link.
That news was in headlines everywhere in the car, Apple and technology world yet here you are not knowing that yet giving “advice” on all three.
😂
@Grok: I gave no 'advice' did you see the question mark?,
Clearly, you've had a bad day so you thought you would be a nasty prick and 'try' and have a laugh at someone else's expense.
@shutuptakemymoney101: Who is the nasty 🍆? You called Apple customers iSheep for wanting to buy a non existent product.
You are half right though, I had a good day.
@shutuptakemymoney101: This is not a question.
Regardless of how good it is any iSheep who have ever contemplated an EV purchase will hand their money over as soon as they can order.
It’s mean ignorant commentary.
@Grok: lol, I get it now. You're an iSheep and are butt hurt over my comment. ha ha ha
Sorry for calling you an iSheep - baaa, baaa
@Grok: Baaa, Baaa, Baaa lol.
@Grok, seriously though - why is it so difficult to admit that there are Apple Fanboi's who would buy Apple branded dog turd if they sold it? These are the people (iSheep) who would happily purchase an Apple car regardless of how good it was in comparison to the competition.
Creating customers so loyal is pure genius, Apple should be congratulated on its marketing effectiveness.
Is there a no-recall guarantee?
Disable the over the air upgrade and place Volkswagen stickers all over and Presto you have earned the recall to garage award!
Hi @Heybargain do you have any reference or link to No more USS and HW4?
I don't see any USS on the vehicle page renderings. Also those who have existing orders were sent an email from tesla today advising of the new hardware:
"Model Y is now better than ever. Model Y has been updated with 3 new paint options including a Model Y exclusive option; Quicksilver. We have also introduced a new wheel cover design for the 19in Gemini Wheels and our latest Autopilot hardware. In addition, we are pleased to advise that the base price of Model Y in Australia has been updated.
We have identified that your order has a configuration option that has changed, please visit your Tesla Account to update your order.
If you do not wish to update your order, you may cancel your order in your Tesla Account to receive a full refund of your order fee and any payments you've made towards the vehicle. If no action is taken before 18 April 2024, your order will be cancelled automatically."
Good AI with cameras are much better at detecting objects then any USS. USS is just 4-6 pixels, whereas cameras provide with millions of pixels of information.
Even now the camera based object heat map works pretty good and AI improves constantly with learning.
So it is not really an issue. As Xiaomi CEO rightly pointed out that once enough confidence is achieved on a sensor based model then it is not worthy for companies to pursue more than a model as it will lag the learning efficiency. Tesla after pursuing both for some time made the switch. Now it is just a matter of improvement.
How much is a battery replacement for one of these Teslas? How long do they last?
The cost of replacing a Tesla battery can vary significantly depending on the model and the circumstances of the replacement. Typically, battery replacement costs can range from $13,000 to $20,000 USD. Tesla batteries are designed to last a long time, with many lasting beyond 480,000 to 820,000 kilometres. Tesla also offers a warranty for its batteries, typically covering 8 years or a certain km distance, whichever comes first, with a minimum retained battery capacity (70% to 80%, depending on the model).
Apparently the actual old battery is still worth a bit for the raw materials, 98% of which are recovered when recycled and allegedly will be in a more pure state then when originally refined, meaning less materials for the same power output.
So assuming we get recycling right, will eventually be approaching a close loop system requiring less natural resources to be mined. Getting to that point will be the challenge.
85k for performace sounds like a good deal, if i was in the market for an EV id wait for the new upgraded ludicrous model 3, will be announced this week and launched by end of the year. 0 to 100 3 sec flat. will also be priced under 100k aud, this car really has no competition in terms of performance under the 250k price range. the closest (and still slower) is the bmw m3 xdrive competition which is like 178k sticker
0-100 - That's boring as batshit - Especially in an EV and isn't usable on a public road. Fast EV's are just a one trick pony.
0 to 100 you can at least use on the highway on ramp. I agree that top speed is not much of a priority on public roads.
its not only the 0 to 100 time, we use that to outline the cars capabilities, but the model 3 is more than that and it has proven inself to be a proper track weapon with great handling and corner grabbing abilities. yes yes EV boring coz no noise i get it. thats the only down side
Honest question, exactly what benefit or when do you need to go from 0 to 100 in 3 seconds? Deal on at hungry Jacks?
Not sure why ozbatgain thought I was linked to you lol.. that's the first time it ever happened to me but I finally got the plus in.. it's a really tempting offer for the LR. Still prefer the ix3 look. Just the battery tech is worse …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zR9b-UJtPM
Cherry Red so much better.
Ultra Red looks like mazda red
Quick summary of the changes compared to the previous generation(s):
Tesla Vision is a new feature that uses cameras to replace the ultrasonic sensors that were previously used for Autopilot.
The new Model Y has double-paned glass for better sound insulation.
The center console has been redesigned and is made of higher-quality materials.
The new Model Y has a 12-volt lithium-ion battery system, which is different from the previous 12-volt system.
The cabin noise has been reduced in the new Model Y due to improved sound deadening materials.
The ride quality of the new Model Y is better than the previous model,Where does it say about cabin noice and suspension?
The drive report I read only talking about color and hib caps
https://www.drive.com.au/news/2024-tesla-model-y-price-and-s…
According to the website link - no significant changes for Australian models? Also, the new grey colour has been increased in price.
Changes in Australia are limited to a black finish for the covers on the standard-fit 19-inch 'Gemini' wheels, and three new colours: stealth grey ($2300 extra), quicksilver ($2600) and ultra red ($2600).
Do you have a source for this? Please don’t spread false info, ozbargain comments section is my goto source
Headlining the Tesla Model Y’s changes for 2024 are a new black ‘Gemini’ wheel cover design for the base and Long Range variants, plus three new optional exterior colours.
Unfortunately Australia will miss out on a majority of the updates to the Chinese-delivered Model Y – despite being built in the same Shanghai factory – such as greater driving range, RGB interior ambient lighting and a textile dashboard material.
I will never understand why people like suv cars i hate them. They are ugly as f%^k
Yep, I don't have one, but being quite tall I assume they have more legroom and headroom.
I'm getting older so considering an SUV as they are easier to get in and out.
Insane amount of boot space, ideal for families, it's basically like a wagon\estate.But they aren't a sexy car at all u pretty much trade looks for utility? I much prefer looks :D
Completely agree, Tesla cars are so ugly you’d never drive one if you had to stand next to one.
@kungfuman: Nar mate, you’re talking about your beloved Tesla that’s tanking like a sack of potatoes hahah
@cloudy: if you had read my comments, it's all SUVs I hate not just the model Y, they are ugly.
Also if you do your research they aren't tanking, mainstream media is lying to you. how much research did you do? One web search on say google? was that the total extent of your limited ability to research?@kungfuman: Okay dude, Tesla cars don’t tank in price, people pay more for second hand coz karate masters drive them first!
You obviously dont have kids/dogs.
Once you do, function>design
You're basically forced to drive a SUV because everyone else drives a SUV or a ute and you can't see over/around them in certain situations where its needed.
But the higher height does also make it easier for getting kids in and out, and more space is also useful for families, more space between rows is needed for car seats, and more boot space for prams, however SUVs don't necessarily have much more space unless you get a large one. A lot of the small and even medium sized SUV don't really offer a lot more space.
Not just for kids. I got an SUV since I drive my dad around and he's finding it hard to move around as he gets oldeer. Its far easier for him to step in and step out compared to having to squeeze and pull himself up and down in a sedan
Thanks OP. Test driving a performance model on Saturday.
I've driven a mate's standard model y and been a passenger in another mate's performance model 3. Enjoyed both.
$87k drive away for a performance SUV. Sounds good on paper.
Insurance looks pretty expensive though!
Insurance premiums still aren't mentioned enough. They're absolutely wild on most EVs for most people.
Citation needed. Insurance costs can be a little higher, but not "absolutely wild" in my experience.
Wow that's a huge price drop for the LR and performance
If I was on the market for my first foray into a novated EV, this would definitely move me to sign. This sounds conflicting but after 20k KMs / 9 months of novating the model y rwd, and despite enjoying the car as a daily driver, I'd likely try a different EV once the lease is up. I feel that the driving/ownership experience has been packaged very nicely in this car, albeit not without some faults. Great intro to the EV world. But there seems to be sufficient feedback on the byd market that I would like to suss out the seal performance.
Same as you. Love my Model Y LR but have been thinking as I see them on the road that the Seal looks very nice!
Feel the same. Our MY RWD is a very good car and was bought to be a first move to an EV. It has its ‘things’ like any car. There are a lot of other options opening up and when we come to turn the MY over it will all be very different.
Read the reviews carefully. BYD safety systems not up to scratch.
Does this still have the stupid doors?
just did a quick quote with AAMI (VIC) $1,396.13 for the 2024 Tesla Model Y - about $400 more than a Jeep GC.
In fairness the assumption with a Jeep is it will spend most of its life safely on service centre hoist.
oh man.. just got my MYLR last month .. $5.5k down already . ah well it is what it is . cant do much I guess
Had my MY RWD (FBT free novated lease) about 7mths now and just ticked over 14,000kms.
Charge from excess home solar mostly, and crank it up to 32amps in the free period between 11am-2pm with Ovo energy. Only had to top up once $15 on a family road trip enough to get us home. Got a rear hitch mount and carry 4 mountain bikes multiple times a week.
Doesn't suit everyone's needs but overall I'm very happy with it for city family duties!
who supplied the hitch mount? is it from tesla or an aftermarket provider?
Aftermarket - https://www.evts.com.au/collections/tesla/products/model-y-t…
I'm only ever going to carry bikes, I don't need the tow software upgrade that comes with the Tesla hitch. Also the Tesla hitch is only rated for 72kg vertical weight, vs approx 160kg for the Austalian made options.
Then the bike rack is one of these vertical racks - https://dirtypossum.com.au/product/vertical-bike-racks/
ta for both links. waiting for a hayman reese quote but will suss this one out
@inamberclad: The other aussie aftermarket hitch manufacturer are these guys - https://evstealthsolutions.com.au/shop/p/tesla-model-y-towba…
Everyone still pretty horny over Tesla by the look of all these votes/comments.
Why buy now? Wait till it drop more
think new one is coming soon so clearing manufacturing lines
Idk if to buy now or wait for juniper
Spam boat :'(
We added a baby to the house and definitely need a bigger car. From my research nothing really comes close to the y in boot space vs price… Was trying to hold out for juniper, but heard it was delayed…
get the Rav4 hybrid, it is much better car and cheaper (don't buy Cruiser or Edge models)
I have my Model Y LR scheduled for pick up next week and they applied the new pricing + a further 3% discount if you want to pick up a hardware version 3 car that they currently have in inventory. If you want the new hardware version 4, then you'll have to wait till June and you don't get the additional 3%. Reading about the hardware version 4, it doesnt seem like much of an upgrade particuarly if you dont want FSD.
Camera quality improved significantly for all the cameras in HW4. May help with object detection even for Default TACC/AutoSteer/Park Assist etc. Other than that yeah HW3 is more than enough.
They took out ultra sonic sensors
They reduced ram from 16GB to 8GB for HW4
They reduced storage of their system from 256g GB to 128 GBIs HW4 really better than HW3?
https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tesla-scales-back-hw4-compu…https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModelY/comments/12t2rd1/tested…
Whaat?
https://electrek.co/2023/02/15/tesla-self-driving-hw4-comput…
May be a temp texas batch with 8GB/128GB HW4 due to some shortage.
As I said before, Cameras are much better in HW4 and tesla focussing on AI based detection means 6 pixel USS input vs millions of pixels from cameras is going to be much better in object recognition as upgrades are getting pushed every couple of weeks.
That's interesting, I thought Model Y had HW4 by default after April 2023.
Not in the Chinese produced cars (so not in Australia), they just started producing HW4 recently.
Anyone got a quote for Novated Lease recently? Would be great to know what is the interest rate and monthly cost you have been quoted for LR or Performance?
Interest 7.48 / Discount rate: 5.984
That's sounds really good. Who with? Which model and how much are you paying per month?
https://www.money.com.au/car-loans/novated-lease/novated-lea…
Just get quotes from each one of them you can catch hold of.
This is lower than home loan rate and sounds a bit too good to be true.
Yeah he tells us the rate but doesn't want to provide any details.
My NL guy told me that it was around 9%
In WA it is 63,380 (Driveaway $68,997) now.
The FSD can be purchased via app after taking delivery?
Yes.
Looks like the Referral Benefits are Ending on April 30, 2024
Budget for that large drive to be locked inside the glove box.
Plenty of Mardi Gras fanatics waiting to key you!
This bodes well when we want to upgrade our current EV to a second hand Model Y in a few years time. Not giving Musky a red cent!