I went to a big shopping centre where I can see there are four charging spots near the entrance.
However, two of them parked there were not charging at all. I guess it was just because it was close to the shops.
Personally, I don't drive an EV but raised my eyebrows seeing those dogs in the manger.
They did in the Title.
Indeed they did. :)
"Genuine"
Genuine question it may (or may not) be, but it is question born of ignorance. As ESEMCE pointed out, OP had EV in their title (and it's been there the whole time).
To be fair, the comment was in response to a comment about ICE cars parking in EV charging spots.
Well this post title is pretty obvious application of “Betteridge’s Law of Headlines” IMHO.
Agree 100%
But such is the world today of self-entitled people that think of nobody else except themselves
Do the operators of the charging bays pay rates to council for the use of public lands? Or do they get them free? We live in a world where operators of share car and bikes get free use of public spaces to stop and park. Go to a fuel station to charge your car, not public roads and car parks.
Not related to EV charging but a couple of times i saw people parking in the bays designated for coles click and collect. I think in reality many people are just selfish for their own purpose.
There’s effectively no difference between parking an EV but not charging and parking an ICE vehicle there
Surely Ethics is the same for everyone, it's Morals that are different… The two are often confused.
Ethically it is wrong. Whether it is morally wrong depends on an individuals opinion.
For example.. If they are there for a movie, plugged in, but charge completes and they will move it at the earliest opportunity (in a shopping centre charge spot) that may still be ethically wrong (leaving unattended is still not correct behaviour) but it may not be morally wrong (the person isn't deliberately depriving others).
If it's a high speed charge station , then it's morally and ethically wrong to put anything in the way preventing others from accessing the service, just as it would be to park a car in a petrol pump when not filling up… I'm sure you would get a lot of angry people asking you to get the heck out of the way.
I find it ethically and morally wrong that people who have no means of charging at home go and buy an EV… then tie up shopping centre car park bays because "it's the only place I can plug in" … it's not the intended use, which is for a convenient freebie for shoppers, not as a fuel station for apartment dwellers. These people deprive everyone else of the intended use of the bay, because of their personal choices.
I find it ethically and morally wrong that people who have no means of charging at home go and buy an EV… then tie up shopping centre car park bays because "it's the only place I can plug in"
I, on the other hand, don’t think there is anything wrong with someone who doesn’t have home charging to use public chargers - provided they are parked and charge for a reasonably short period of time. If the car is sitting there plugged in and not charging for hours at a time. it’s not the purpose of public chargers, they are there to provide a charge, not a parking space.
There are ppl who park in disabled parking spots…
If that's the case I think it's ethical to disable them to make them an honest person.
Only if you give them a sticker to put their windshield as well.
One that says "This spot is for physically handicapped, not mentally handicapped."
@Switchblade88: If they can get a permit, they can use the spaces. It’s not up to me (or you) to police wether they can or can’t walk a bit further.
Do some people rort it? Of course, but we can’t make it too difficult for those who do the right thing to get a permit.
@Euphemistic: I was referring to the morons people that park without a permit, of course.
We've got one, and it's infuriating to deal with jerks who don't have a permit and don't care.
@ssfps: If they are a person who parks without cause in a disabled parking spot they're a jerk, yes. 'Suddenly broken pram' is not anywhere near equivalent to 'constantly impaired limbs', or 'Need extra clearance for wheelchair accessibility'. The additional clearance isn't just a trolley buffer.
Anyone who ACTUALLY has a permit is acutely aware of just how valuable those parking spots are for the people who need them.
What if the first person takes the parking spot, knowing that somebody in greater need (person 2) is very likely to want to use the single disabled parking spot. Is that ethical?
If you’ve got the permit you can park there. How are you supposed to know who is going to come along after you?
Similar with EV charging. Your car is at 50%, you need to go shopping, you’ve got a 20% drive ahead of you. You plug in, shop and come back 5min after it’s fully charged - so not doing anything wrong. Are you supposed to not charge just in case someone without enough range to get to pick up the kids from school needs to charge while you’re shopping? You don’t know what’s coming but if you’re not breaking ‘the rules’ you shouldn’t have to concern yourself.
Should you park in the back corner of the carpark because you can run a marathon and leave all the close spaces for people who work up a sweat walking from the couch to the fridge?
If you’ve got the permit you can park there. How are you supposed to know who is going to come along after you?
So you're saying the permit itself is more important than any consideration of people better or worse off than you. You're essentially saying that there is no way to judge merit individually, we have to abdicate that responsibility to a beurocratic authority. I can think of other governments that imposed this sort of "ethics", they made people wear gold star-of-david's to indicate who was worthy of special treatment and who wasn't.
So you're saying the permit itself is more important than any consideration of people better or worse off than you.
No. I’m saying that if you’ve got a permit it’s for a reason and you do not know who is going to come along next. What if you’ve got a permit but you think that someone else worse off than you will come along and the spot stays free all day?
I think that some people who would qualify for a permit genuinely don’t have one or won’t use it, just the same as some people rort the system just so they can park closer to the shops.
If you’ve got a permit how are you supposed to judge wether the next person to come along needs the spot more than you? You don’t know who is coming next.
That's very ableist of you
What an absurd take.
So long as your needs are catered for, that's ethical
…which is the argument that you're using for the mum?
Here's your 'just for fun' answer - everyone with a permit judges anyone else with a permit as EQUAL. No judging or discrimination, as we've all already experienced it enough from the rest of society. If the spot is taken by a permit holder then that is good, and ethical, an you just park elsewhere with no fuss.
I hereby award you with the first inaugural 'morally disabled' sticker. Do better.
@Switchblade88: It's sad that your disability hasn't taught you to feel empathy for others, but this is the sort of harsh bureaucratic world we live in, i suppose.
@Switchblade88: yes my mum has a permit and can never get parking in a disabled spot around bankstown cos every 2nd car has one and it’s usually granny’s permit in the car and a young healthy tradie jumps into the car
If it was a haggard mum with 3 young kids and she was at the store to replace her suddenly broken pram, is she a jerk?
Yes. Why is her need greater than that of someone with a permit? And I say that as someone who's wife (and mother of our 3 young kids to boot) would agree with me. We have never and will never park in a disabled spot (without a permit).
@this is us: true, although it would be funny to see a mentally handicapped guy walking out to see Switchblade88 applying the said sticker on they windshield
What if they have a DPS Permit?
Then they get to start matches a lot faster in role queue overwatch 2
If only I was Denzel and my life was like equalizer
And if they're disabled or driving disabled folk, fine. If not, scum of the earth doesn't even come close
If they're legit they'll have the permit, including care businesses
RMS unfortunately refuse to provide more than one permit for each individual (unless businesses who get one per vehicle)
I have 3 cars at home that frequently alternate taking the disabled individual in my house around, and so occasionally (despite our best efforts) the permit isn't in the car at the time.
@JDMcarfan: We actually (inadvertently) had two permits from RMS - the first one was lost when the kids decided to 'play with mum's blue card' and disappeared. We got a replacement, and months later the original permit was found under a couch.
Probably not considered valid if the serial was actually checked, but it lived in the glovebox as an emergency spare - and nobody really asks questions when you have a bootful of crutches and other mobility aids anyway.
@Switchblade88: Honestly might need to do the same.
Have had enough frantic searches in the house that having a spare in a drawer whenever it’s needed might be a good shout.
I got a couple extra permit holders and just use the backside of my learner licence as a decoy when I’ve gone without to hopefully just pass of as one of a ranger is walking by
Deflate their tyres, but you better be sure they are NOT disabled first
So they occupy the spot someone else might need for even longer?
They'd probably call out roadside assist.You don't expect Gilbert Wathington-Smythe to do it?
I know this is largely unrelated to disabled parking but what about people who use the disabled toilets?
Depends on how long you're going to occupy the space for. Unlike parking, I don't think the toilets are reserved for people with disabilities, more like they're equipped to enable people with disabilities to use them (wider space for wheelchair, something to hold onto for when they get up, etc.) You're also (hopefully) not going to be in there for a few minutes at most, whereas parking will take much more time, and the other person can't really just wait outside for you to finish.
To take a 45 minute monster dump? Not cool, to take a 30 second piss? Well if it unoccupied and no one who might need it more is around, meh. As someone else said Disabled toilets aren't in most cases reserved for people with disabilities purely equipped to accommodate them. Most differently abled people can hold it 30 seconds like the rest of us and those who can't should probably be wearing diapers because I mean you can run into the same potential problem anyway just with a different differently abled person using it instead of an abled person.
differently abled
Are you referring to somebody more or less abled?
Does superman qualify for a differently abled pension due to his superior powers?
Quite a lot of smaller sets of toilets have the baby change table in the disabled toilet so I often have no choice but to use disabked toilets, because im sure as hell not changing my little one in the mens/womens toilets if theres nowhere safe to do so (also public disabled toilets are often cleaner than the other ones)
Just watch the start of the Fat Pizza movie and you'll get your answer to that question
I have a neighbour in a complex who uses his parents' cards for two of the 3 spots in our complex. They don't even live with him. Fit as a fiddle. Man in his 50s. Three teenage kids. No morals.
how would you know hes fit as a fiddle? Are you a doctor that conducted a medical examination on him?
Why, does common sense not tell you what ripped muscles look like? And the hard labour that he does?
I think you're missing the point here.
Or in parents with pram parking even though they dont have kids (and probably for the better)
I've seen people park on top of disabled ramps, and it's not even a parking spot, people can be so terrible (police should also fine them or centre management should have the car towed away). I also question how the hell they don't scrape the bottom of their car on those things, or if they even care.
Not ethical. I think some car parks they can (and should be fined for it.)
The ethical thing would be to stick the charger in the wheel well so it kinda looks like its plugged in from a distance
Lol. Top comment
You know the demographic here is majority self-righteous karens when such a funny comment is sitting at -7 votes.
Even if they're not using the charger they should at least plug it in otherwise looks like a dog act
Charging station spots should be metered.
Good way to pay for the power used to charge the EV and discourage those that have no business there
I mean, they are kinda metered since i think on plenty of them you pay for using the spot + electricity but wtfdik?
Plus, not every car charges in 30 minutes. So you're penalising people who might need charge their car say, overnight.
I do think it should be illegal to have a car parked there if it is not an EV/PHEV.
Why shouldn't we penalise people who occupy the infrastructure for longer than others? We charge more for heavier vehicles to use the road, tolls are larger for larger vehicles and longer journeys, why not this too since you're stopping other people charging in a reasonable time?
@Dsiee: Because in this case, you're kinda penalising people for being 'poor' - and not buying the most expensive super duper charging car - and/or probably adopting this technology early before standard charging ports and rates kinda leveled out to what we'll probably come to expect as 'standard'.
Now if there was a 'your car is done charging, we're gonna charge you for the car sitting here idle' fee i could get behind it. Because apps, or just a timer to go back to the car could fix that problem. Then if you're out woop woop overnight, jut stay in the spot and be gone by 6am, and if you're in the city, just move your car while you're there.
We actually penalise trucks because they're mostly used commercial and do contribute to road degradation and such.
It doesn't LOOK like a dog act. It is a dog act. Both versions where the car isn't plugged in, and when it is but not charging.
You sound like someone who would park in a disabled spot
I think he maybe SHOULD be using the parking in the disabled spot
So it's fine for EV's to be parked in standard non-charging parking bays?
Why would it not be ok?? Parking bays and charging bays are two different things.
Oh FFS… this is like saying "WhY dO HaNDiCaPPeD PeOpLe uSe ReGuLaR sPoTZ!!11! ThEy sHoULd UsE ThEiR oWn DeSiGnAtEd SpOtZ!!!1!!"
Because these bays are for "CHARGING" not "parking".
That would be like saying… "Why are all these ICE cars parked here??? Why dont they just use their fuel stations to park in??"
Btw, I drive an ICE
You dont say…
It's a CHARGING bay. If the carpark is full you don't go and park in front of a petrol bowser. (or do you?)
Edit: just realised pegaxs post above. as per.
Plenty of clowns pull up next to a bowser then go grab a drink or smokes. Even more frustrating when there’s half a dozen spaces in front of the shop not being used. Some people seem to not want to have to reverse out of a space but are willing to walk further instead.
You don't understand. People that need to charge shouldn't be inconvenienced by the lack of chargers available. People needing to park a car should be inconvenienced by the lack of parking. Even if nobody will pull up and charge in the next 2 hours that you would have parked there, it's unethical, just because, alright? It's illegal, and ethics and legality are synonymous, okay!? What aren't you getting!?!
You are the subject of this POST
Whammo!
If you gotta ask…
Charge bays are for charging. You’ve got to plug in if you park there.
Not sure on the etiquette of having to move your car on if it’s finished charging. Eg your car only needs 20min charge so you plug in and go to a movie (like you already planned). Are you supposed to come back and move it if you’re gone for 2hrs?
In the US you get charged an idle fee after it has finished charging, I'm not sure if they charge that in Australia though
I would honestly hope they do.
I remember the tesla chargers would start billing for idle time (owner gets notified on the phone in any case once charging is done; and a grace window is provided) - and fair enough too! I remember folks waiting patiently for the chargers/superchargers to empty out, hogging a spot would be such a dog move if you're not charging. I'd liken it to parking in front of a pump - filling some fuel and then pushing off someplace else for a couple of hours
People at my local shopping leave their car over night so you can't even use it even though they have already fully charged.
No, and in most states this is currently illegal under Road Rule 203C. Fines range from an on the spot fine of around $130, up to about $3,000 in some states if it lands them in court.
And I can guarantee that of the EVholes parking like (fropanity), both of them were Tesla (fropanity). Just like this (fropanity)
A shopping center carpark is private land. Companies cannot give fines, the only thing they can do is tow you if its mentioned as a breach of conditions of entry. Parking police cannot give fines for parking offenses on private land. The RR203C only applies to public roads etc.
Not always true, at least in Victoria. Local councils can enter into agreements with local land owners to enforce parking restrictions
Local councils are often known for shall we say not being legal or careful in what they do. Councillers arent exactly bright sparks.
THey might have agreements, but they also might fail if challenged in court.
I'm in Vic. I was at a nearby shopping center and wanted to plug into the charger (BYO AC, so admittedly less conspicuous than the big DC ones). 4 chargers, all ICED, and half the low emissions car park had Hyluxes in it. I snap-send-solved the chargers (and mentioned the LE carpark). Council called in about 5 minutes, said they couldn't enforce cause it's a private carpark and said to contact the center management. This had happened often enough that I was grumpy and indignant- so I emailed them.
Nothing, crickets. Chargers always ICED to this day. The signage is all very crap around there too. (did manage to get a charger since someone came out of the boost juice while I was calling the council, but argh)
This impacts you how?
Something doesn’t have to impact you directly for it to be of a concern. The war in Ukraine doesn’t “impact” me personally, but I know people from both Russia and Ukraine. The war in Gaza doesn’t “impact” me directly, but I know of friends who have family trying to escape there, and that concerns me. I am not disabled, so (fropanity) parking in handicapped reserved parking spaces doesn’t impact me directly, but it affects people I know and it should be called out by everyone…
So, no, sorry, if I see someone acting like a shit (fropanity) I will call out their shit (fropanity) entitlement, even if it impacts me directly or not. I hate this whole “if it doesn’t concern you, jog on” attitude people have.
And pram parking spots are not the same. Pram parking is usually in a a handy location, chargers seldom are. Disabled spots exist for a reason, to assist disabled people with their needs. Charging bays are the same, they exist because they need to exist to allow access to chargers… Pram parking bays are just to placate “mommies” who think walking 10 feet further to the door with a crotch goblin is their “hard work” for the day…
Also, not my neg…
Well said @pegaxs Couldn’t agree with you more. In fact, with that mindset, you’ve got my vote for PM, President, Cult Leader or whatever your noble heart desires
#Pegaxs2025
Oh, grow up. I'm not linking the war in Ukraine to EV parking struggles, and you know it. It's an example of things that "don't impact me" but their existence "concerns me"
There are a lot of things in my life that don't "impact me" yet I still feel a need to stand up and say "no, that is wrong!" on behalf of the people that is does impact.
I stopped reading after that dribble.
With that shit attitude I'm glad you did. Feel free to block me if I "impact" you that much.
Oh, and now those negs are mine. Enjoy.
But yet you did.
Ahhhh… But you see, I didn't. At no stage did I say that the struggles of people blocking EV parking bays is directly related to Russia's invasion and the ongoing war in Ukraine. I merely gave examples of random issues in the world that don't "impact" me directly, that I still feel the need to stand up and denounce. But, sure, keep grasping at that strawman.
Its not even remotely similar.
They don't need to be similar… As an example, it needs to be something that does NOT impact me directly that still concerns me and that I voice my disdain for.
I noticed that you didn't focus on my example of disabled parking spots that also don't impact me, yet I still feel the right thing to do is to call out arseholes that use these spaces illegally.
when you don't even own one.
Huh? For real? or just trolling?
I also dont own a disabled body and have no reason to park in disabled bays, but that doesn't mean that able bodied people should be able to freely park in disabled bays because I'm not disabled and it "doesn't concern me". I think MORE people should be calling these arseholes out when they park like pricks, then maybe the world would be a better place.
Nah just got better things to do…
Yet, here you are, shit posting.
@JimmyF: Hi Jimmy I think you need to improve your reading comprehension and get some empathy training thanks
@DiscountForThee: LOL…. So I need empathy training because some snow flake got upset over a EV parking in a EV spot while not charging and I'm not?
Has the question asked in my first post even been answered yet? Was a free charger? Lots of these spots are 2 spaces, 1 charger…. So might have been GASP waiting for it to become free.
@JimmyF: Empathy training for not caring about your (or others) actions impact those around them thanks
We live in a world wear ICE car drivers will park at charging bays, so ethics is different for everyone.
I would never think of using a charging bay as a car park.
I either am charging or I leave the spot.