How Important Are Uni Grades for a Graduate Position?

Could Be Better on 09/08/2023 - 12:42

Hi everyone,

I’m currently a third year civil eng. student and for the first time, I have to repeat a subject due to a fail grade this semester. In fact, my grades haven’t been too great (credit average, WAM ~62) for the duration of my course, and I just really dislike the premise of sitting myself down for hours and studying. I guess you can call it lazy and undisciplined… Apart from a few subjects that I was actually interested in, most units have just been pretty dull for me. But I’m pretty determined to finish my degree after coming this far.

As it will be my final year next year, it’s about time for me to think about graduate jobs, but I’m worried that my grades will be a large drawback for me, especially for the high-tier consultancy and construction firms. I’ve seen some conflicting opinions about the importance of grades when applying for these roles, and I do possess some experience with club activities, volunteering and one previous internship at a government infrastructure agency last year (when my WAM was a bit higher) which will hopefully be of some proof that I haven’t just been out partying and drinking.

Will my grades ultimately make it harder for me to find a job out of university? Or is it not too big of a deal?

Thanks heaps for all your insight and expertise.

Education & Work

Comments

  • currentfad on 09/08/2023 - 12:51
    +4

    My experience is that many companies explicitly had "65" or "credit average minimum" in their criteria, whether they actually check is another issue.

    If we just think of how many grad applications there will be, recruiters need to cut down an insane amount, and a very easy way to do it is using marks as everyone has that quantitative measure in common.

    So yes your mark alone could get you automatically taken out of consideration.

  • Porker on 09/08/2023 - 12:53
    +6

    Different employers and job types may look (as it were) differently on marks.

    I recently advertised and closed a graduate engineering position for my work place. I received over 400 applications, but I'd say nearly 300 were rubbish and/or computer generated. I had applicants submit their cover sheet with items like this '(insert business name here)' and '(insert your contact details here)' - they clearly used templated cover sheets but did not even apply any effort to update them.

    Anyone that made half an effort to apply got put into our short-list. As example, tailored and considered cover sheet, responding to selection criteria items etc.

    Personally, marks do not explain a person/candidate to me - I review their willingness and capacity to learn, attitude towards work, etc.

    • pjetson on 09/08/2023 - 16:50
      +9

      Personally, marks do not explain a person/candidate to me - I review their willingness and capacity to learn, attitude towards work

      The OP already said that they are "lazy and undisciplined" :-)

    • 2esc on 10/08/2023 - 10:44

      They talk about a shortage of workers in Australia but ive noticed its more of a case of applicants not having the skills required for those jobs.

  • Mr Haj on 09/08/2023 - 12:54
    +24

    I just really dislike the premise of sitting myself down for hours and studying.

    It only gets worse.

    • cheekymonkey97 on 11/08/2023 - 15:51

      No, it doesn't. I also hated the idea of studying and everyone told me"you're going to hate the workplace" yet here I am earning a very tidy sum for my age and enjoying the work I do.

  • jv on 09/08/2023 - 12:59
    -2

    Very

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 09/08/2023 - 13:02
    +1

    u know what they say - ' 4's open doors '

    (4 was a pass back in my day (scale of 1-7, 1-3 was fail)

    • Drakesy on 09/08/2023 - 13:42
      +16

      P's get degrees

      • djkelly69 on 09/08/2023 - 14:06
        +2

        True, but do they get grad positions is the question.

        • Drakesy on 09/08/2023 - 14:11

          From experience, yes

  • jv on 09/08/2023 - 13:04

    I’m currently a third year civil eng., and I just really dislike the premise of sitting myself down for hours and studying

    This is a video clip of the work recently completed from the last person who made a similar comment on OzBargain…

    https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2370583143096953

    • bobbified on 09/08/2023 - 14:18

      This is a video clip of the work recently completed from the last person who made a similar comment on OzBargain

      Whoever posted the video in portrait mode should be sacked!

  • Crow K on 09/08/2023 - 13:10
    +8

    Have you given some thought to your answer if/when an interviewer says "Your grades seem low, can you talk us through why?"

    • jv on 09/08/2023 - 14:25
      +11

      "I just really dislike the premise of sitting myself down for hours and studying"

    • bobbified on 09/08/2023 - 14:32

      "Your grades seem low, can you talk us through why?"

      Answer: "I feel like you're asking me to sit here and justify my existence".

      • Crow K on 09/08/2023 - 14:39

        :)

        • bobbified on 09/08/2023 - 14:45

          I'm sure there'll be no second interview after that! lol

          • Crow K on 09/08/2023 - 14:53

            @bobbified: I certainly wouldn't be hiring them .. … unless my office needed a new paperweight or doorstop lololololololl

            • bobbified on 09/08/2023 - 15:07

              @Crow K: I say what I said above as a joke, but I can actually imagine someone saying that!

              One of my african mates - I knew he was decent at his job but I wondered why he never seemed to be successful at interviews! I asked him one day and he told me that when they ask him to give an example of 'difficulties' he faces in his job, he tells them that he feels that people often discriminate against him because his skin colour! I pissed myself laughing and told him that that would be the reason noone wants to hire you! As soon as he uses that D word in an interview, everyone's going to assume he would be a walking liability! 😂

              • Crow K on 09/08/2023 - 15:13

                @bobbified: Sure, though it's also just a textbook example of giving the wrong answer/answering the wrong question. He might as well have said he had difficulty getting work done because he's daydreaming up great ideas to make more money on his side-hustle.

                Interviewers haven't injected you with truth serum, if one of them asks you the last book you've read you don't need to blurt out "Deadpool: Night Stabs Issue 7".

                • bobbified on 09/08/2023 - 15:17

                  @Crow K: I think that some people are just not built for interviews! lol

                  • Crow K on 09/08/2023 - 15:19
                    +1

                    @bobbified: I certainly wasn't, but then I bought a book called something like "Great Answers To Tough Interview Questions" and got a feel for the give-and-take nature of how interviews flow.

                    Then I got a job and never looked at the book again! Into the trash it goes!

  • try2bhelpful on 09/08/2023 - 13:14
    +4

    It depends on how crowded your field is and how well you present.

    When I finished my first degree I had pretty bad marks, it was a reasonably crowded field of graduates, and I wasn’t particularly engaged with the subject matter. I got a job where the required qualifications for the position was Form 6. With my second degree I did well at the course, I was interested and engaged, it was an up coming field and I was a bit older, and wiser, and presented well. I got seven job offers.

    If you aren’t going to get good marks across the board then you need to make sure you do well with what you are interested in and go for jobs that are heavy in that requirement. Do the hard yards on knowing what a company does and tailor your cover letter accordingly. You need a foot in the door, then make sure your present well to how the company operates. Show you are the best fit. If you get a job then work your arse off. Once you have the first job down nobody cares about your marks.

  • Drakesy on 09/08/2023 - 13:30
    -1

    Law, Medicine & Psych - yes

    All others - meh.

    If anything its almost inversely proportional to your success at your role.
    A lot of book smart, high gpa, technically gifted people from my year specialized early and had to wait for someone above them to retire to move up the ladder, consequently, they're on a lower wage than others who got lower marks, yet developed communication skills and the ability to effectively manage. I've noticed that the further you go in life it's not about what you know but about who you know and how you sell yourself.

    Oh and don't worry, i was in the same head space when i graduated, luckily engineering is an extremely broad field, you can go down the technical path or if you prefer interacting with people, become a project manager. Do a couple of years in the trenches as a grad at a relatively large firm that can give you an overview across all the disciplines. I found i hated the consulting lifestyle, went government and never looked back.

    (I'm a civil engineer who pretty much was the median score for the year i graduated), now on very decent money without having to stress.

  • Davo1111 on 09/08/2023 - 13:37

    just finish and dw about it.

    The grades are done, you cant change them

  • [Deactivated] on 09/08/2023 - 13:44
    +1

    I didn't limit myself to just applying for graduate roles and never had to submit my transcript for any position.

    The issue with some of the graduate programs in large companies/consultancies is that some of the rotations may not be within your area of study and when I meet some of the grads, they are so bored due to obvious disinterest.

    Go for all positions that you're interested in - good luck.

    • Davo1111 on 09/08/2023 - 20:51

      tbh i agree. Grades were basically an automatic rejection for any graduate program.

      Think outside the box in terms of your job search criteria.

  • KaTst3R on 09/08/2023 - 13:47
    +2

    especially for the high-tier consultancy and construction firms

    Not going to sugar coat things but grades are very important for graduate positions. Companies will do a 1st round desktop screening and given that there will be limited relevant work experience, they can only rely on grades as a indicator of capability. Top tier firms will have a large number of applicants per role. So if you don't have anything that stands out on your resume, it is going be a struggle.

  • DingoBilly on 09/08/2023 - 13:48

    It's just a matter of opening doors at end of day.

    You'll still get offers if you just barely pass anything. You'll have more opportunities though the higher your marks go, and it does make life easier (you don't want to study for a few hours per week? That may cost you a year or two of future study/work to make up for it).

    It's a bit like university in the first place - you need a certain grade from High School to enter certain courses. You aren't blocked from studying those courses forever though if you can't get in initially, just need to spend more time/resources to get to the same point as someone else who was able to get in initially.

  • tallkid123 on 09/08/2023 - 13:55
    +3

    Will my grades ultimately make it harder for me to find a job out of university? Or is it not too big of a deal?

    If you want a formal graduate position at a Tier 1/2 engineering consulting firm, then yes, grades are a cutoff threshold that you need to meet before you can progress. While I'm not an engineer myself, I had worked in these firms for a few years and they do not take in a lot of graduates to begin with.

    It helps if you're female, OP. Engineering firms really want female graduates.

    Also, most people don't get into grad programs. I didn't.

    I was an average student. After my postgrad degree, I found a shitty entry level job and moved around different companies (don't ever be loyal) for more money and a better title up until recently.

    Once you have a year or two of experience in something related, then your options open up dramatically and your grades will never matter again.

    • Polt on 09/08/2023 - 14:33
      +1

      It helps if you're female, OP. Engineering firms really want female graduates.

      Agreed. Like it or not, this can affect the grades you need. Typically in Engineering, with many more males applying the grade 'cut-off' applied for a first pass cull of applications will be higher if the hiring company applies a gender quota to their graduate intake.

  • Vulgar on 09/08/2023 - 13:59
    -2

    Not sure if employers actually check your grades so I'd consider making them up or not showing it at all on your resume. I believe they do an identity check and check whether you've completed the degree you say you have.

    • Leiothrix on 10/08/2023 - 08:24
      +3

      Not showing them is fine.

      Making them will get you fired if they find out.

      Omission is one thing, but don't tell lies.

  • Seraphin7 on 09/08/2023 - 14:01

    As with anything it's a marker, not a be all and end all.

    That said, you need to consider the competitiveness or otherwise of the field you are going into. Where a potential employer is flooded with applications, this can be an easy way of applying a first filter, at least in the absence of some other compelling factor. You will need to understand the having a low average is going to be a disadvantage against any other similar candidate who has the higher grades.

    Once you get past this filter (noting this may mean being overlooked by some preferred employers) you can let other aspects of your credentials come through and demonstrate the more complete picture.

    Over time, the simple fact you have the degree will be the sole relevant factor and your work experience and history of performance will be what is dominant to future opportunities. Depending on your aspirations, it may be a series of diagonal steps in the first few years until you can work your way to a more preferred position.

  • star-ggg on 09/08/2023 - 14:12
    +1

    Unless your parent is a C level executive on these engineering companies then generally yes they're very important.

    I say generally because engineering in Australia is a fairly cyclic industry. If times are good and companies need people then they will hire anyone with the relevant degree, if not then they pick only take the best,

  • freefall101 on 09/08/2023 - 14:13
    +2

    I just really dislike the premise of sitting myself down for hours and studying

    Whatever you do, don't put that on the cover letter.

    Where I work (~40 grads hired each year, mostly engineering) it's a big funnel. So long as you have your degree and a decent application, you're in the door (we carve out about half of the applications in round one just for not meeting those two). Then it moves onto stage 2 and it's more about you as a person. End of the day though, if someone with better marks is otherwise equal to you, they'll get the position.

    From here on, I'd put your head down. Showing you could work your butt off to improve at the end is better than letting it slip further. But also think about what you really want to do. Did you enjoy the internship? Is there a field you'd rather head towards that's less desk oriented?

  • Downvoter on 09/08/2023 - 14:36
    +3

    P’s get degrees

  • Polt on 09/08/2023 - 14:41

    OP I understand your pain.

    Something not mentioned yet, is summer programs / internships are a big way to mitigate your grades. At least at the company I work for, which hires 50-100 graduates annually, most hires come from the summer internship program. Your performance working over 3 months is a much better indication of if you're a good hire or not than your grades or any kind of graduate program assessment day.

    If you're worried about your grades, I'd be also trying to get a place in the summer program of whichever companies you want to work for, and trying to parlay that in to a full time offer at the end of the program. Even if the offer is technically for a year later (often the way), most companies are willing to consider an early start if you're available.

  • netjock on 09/08/2023 - 14:58

    Very. Because if they make the wrong hire they can just say you fit all the criteria so it must be you not the system.

  • Duckie2hh on 09/08/2023 - 15:16
    +1

    dislike the premise of sitting myself down for hours and studying. I guess you can call it lazy and undisciplined…

    Yup.

  • th123 on 09/08/2023 - 20:27
    +1

    Get it to high 60s in your last year. Probably not that hard either since last year subjects are weighted heavier. If you're under credit average, most graduate programs will cut you out immediately.

  • Inertia-g on 10/08/2023 - 07:57

    Grades are important for actual graduate positions - higher results will let you filter through for the more premium grad positions - but having a degree (regardless of marks) will still get you in the door for many graduate programs. My wife was top graduating student in her degree, and scored the top graduate salary in her field. I was working 3 jobs through uni, and I think I got a credit average. I did get in to a graduate program, and it paid pretty well for my field.

    However, after that, no one will care about your transcript - I think my extensive work experience from high school and during uni served me better than my degree - but having the piece of paper will get you past the first filter.

  • Takeohakuto on 10/08/2023 - 08:36

    I have just finished uni and working as a student/grad engineer, the advice I got when I asked a similar question was that for top tier companies (Boeing, Lockheed Martin… this was a mechanical engineering discussion), yes marks will be relevant, but after 1-2 years working no one will care.

    I didn't have an issue getting a role as I knew one of the senior engineers at the company I am working at, however they knew that I was hardworking and dedicated to being an engineer so they had no hesitation in recommending me for a grad position. My 3rd year marks weren't as good as my other years as they were the done over 2020 and 2021 (part time study/full time work mature student) and that somewhat limited my enthusiasm for the subjects. I put in a strong final year effort which has bumped me up to H2A honours but that was also on the basis that I really enjoyed my final year units and had a lot of motivation to finish and get out there working.

    I wonder if you aren't enjoying the course work, will you enjoy the profession after you graduate?

  • Sinnerator on 10/08/2023 - 08:36
    -1

    Aren't all unis in Australia pay to win these days?

  • ozbloke2 on 10/08/2023 - 09:40

    Where I work, we get lots of grad applications and usually set a baseline mark of 70 as an initial screening. So yes, it does matter. A company will also look at the specific subject marks though. e.g. if a structural engineering company, if you have good marks in the structural subjects but an overall not so good score, then you might still be considered.

    Don't forget that 4th year subjects are weighted 4x the value of 1st year subjects - so I'd encourage you to put in the hard yards for this last year and boost your overall grade above that 70 mark.

  • ColtNoir on 10/08/2023 - 11:48

    Just do you and you might have to look at other grad programs such as Optus’.

    Optus has a grad program, I can’t see any other requirements other than bachelor level. In saying this, all the grads I have worked with were really personable and capable. This is where you really need to shine.

  • jrvb42 on 10/08/2023 - 22:27

    My GPA for my B.Commerce from Adelaide was 6.2/7. My experience is that grades count for nothing, the degree and HECS was a complete waste of time. You might find it different though. I strongly believe I couldn't get a job because I was late forties. Ageism is alive and well.

  • cheekymonkey97 on 11/08/2023 - 15:53

    OP it absolutely does not matter in most situations. I got into tier 1 grad role for the work I do and my WAM was shit, like real shit.

  • Ragnarok1983 on 11/01/2024 - 20:16

    Unless you are applying for a graduate role at a major consultant, it means very little and will not limit your future in any way or form. Experience and attitude is way more important.

    p.s. those companies are overrated anyway, usually full of bloat and very poor value for money.

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