Moderation on "What Is a Woman?" Post

snoopydoop on 03/06/2023 - 12:22
Last edited 03/06/2023 - 12:55

On recommendation from a moderator, I'm writing here to discuss/clarify on what I feel is inconsistent and insufficient moderation on this controversial post.
Please be civil in these comments - I don't want arguments, and am posting this in good faith in order to hopefully improve the site - not start fights.

There are two main issues I wanted to bring up here:
1) Inconsistency with deal being allowed to be posted in the first place
2) Genuinely problematic comments not being moderated effectively enough on a post which is clearly going to generate them.

Inconsistency with deal being allowed to be posted

The reason that a moderator gave in the comments as to why this deal was allowed is a "documentary which is not usually free thus meets the standards for a deal".

This inspired me to search for an almost identical circumstance (but intentionally not a political/inflammatory one). I truly posted what I would perceive a deal in the same vein. It was a documentary about YouTuber MrBeast, which has been professionally created by streaming service Curiosity Stream. It is available paid on their streaming service, and even has an official IMDB page.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt17008854/

Curiosity Stream has uploaded this for free to their YouTube channel - a documentary which is usually paid for, which is now available for free, thus qualifying for a deal under posting guidelines.
My post was immediately moved to the forums, then removed, and I even received an account warning for posting. ("Trolling level 1")

I personally see no differences between these two posts - this I Am A Woman documentary has been posted specifically to generate comments and outrage, and is by its nature no less genuine a documentary than the MrBeast one on Curiosity Stream's subscription service.

This makes me feel like the reason it has been kept up is for some sort of political point, or moderation bias. I'd love some clarification for whether this is not the case - but I do not see how my own post could have been seen as "trolling" or "inflammatory", when this original post is arguably one of the most inflammatory "troll" posts that has ever been posted on the site. Which brings me to point 2….

Problematic Comments on the Post

When the media posts an article that could attract inflammatory comments, due to the 2021 High Court ruling puting the onus on publications for comments published on their website, they ensure that they have full moderation capabilities to ensure there are no hateful comments. When this moderation capability is no longer available, comments are closed, either temporarily while they catch up, or for good.
However, given there has been moderation for the duration this post has been up (eg. on my post), there has been some level of moderation capacity during this time, despite it being Friday/Saturday.

There are quite a few substantially hateful comments in this thread. I am specifically talking about comments that are genuinely hateful.

Probably the biggest is there are a large number perpetuating the conspiracy theory that the LGBTQIA+ community as a whole grooms children.. This is a view with neo-Nazi roots, and is well documented.
I mean, there is a comment up there right now saying "Destroy pedo freaks", a slogan that the neo-nazi group recently held up in Melbourne.
This is absolutely not the only comment that is blatantly hateful, there are many like it there. Perhaps others can point out the worst offenders. (EDIT: Removed ~2.5hrs after commented - plenty more with similar rhetoric that have been up for a long time)

If it is OzBargain's decision that posts like these are allowed to be up there - they absolutely need to make sure that the comments published are not hateful, and are well moderated. Otherwise it certainly comes across as acceptance of these comments. This is not very welcoming of LGBTQIA+ members of this website.
It was clear from the get go that the decision to keep this post up would require incredible amounts of moderation, given it was posted with the intention of aggravation, and keeping comments such as this one up there is upsetting to see that OzBargain is happily publishing these comments.

TLDR: I am disappointed in OzBargain's decision to leave this post up, their decision to give me an account warning for a far less inflammatory version of the same type of post, and the fact that there are many hateful comments rooted in neo-Nazi ideology currently on the website, still not moderated. To be clear - I am not talking about all comments in favour of this as a deal, I am talking very specifically about the blatantly hateful comments.
Site Discussion

Comments

  • AustriaBargain on 03/06/2023 - 13:48
    +14

    This post asking for OZB to be censored for a documentary that boils down to a man asking people to explain what a woman is is the 21st century version of book burning. It's a question a lot of us have in this brave new world, but apparently it's a question we are not allowed to ask?

    • chepsk8 on 03/06/2023 - 13:57
      +34

      You’re not that stupid, you know that it’s not just “asking what a woman is”, there is a subtext to it and an intent by the producers to delegitimise transgender people, that is the reason for this entire “documentary”’s existence, that is blindingly clear and you’re entirely aware of that fact.

      • tharlow on 03/06/2023 - 14:02
        +5

        Subtext? I think you may be hearing voices, but don’t worry — it’s easy to shift your brain out of neutral and begin to think independently once again

        • chepsk8 on 03/06/2023 - 14:14
          +16

          Media and news literacy can be a handy thing at times, you should consider attaining some.

        • skidexa on 03/06/2023 - 19:32
          +4

          "Think independently", dies on hill for a documentary

      • ozhunter on 03/06/2023 - 14:03
        +7

        an intent by the producers to delegitimise transgender people

        Yea, lol. To say men can't be women and vice-versa. That's why you guys want it to be taken down. It hinders your agenda.

        • chepsk8 on 03/06/2023 - 14:05
          +19

          I want it taken down because none of this politically charged culture war garbage should be on a website for BARGAINS.

          • tharlow on 03/06/2023 - 15:35
            +3

            @chepsk8: I thought it was the premier Internet forum for traffic accident analysis, and confirmation bias

      • AustriaBargain on 03/06/2023 - 14:03
        +15

        I don't think it does delegitimise transgender people. It does delegitimise people who claim that it's possible to change your biological sex just by stating it. But I don't think most transgender people claim they literally are the opposite sex, if they were then they literally wouldn't be transgender. Gender and sex are different things. Gender is how you feel, sex is what you are. The trans movement has been hijacked by people who want to erase the concept of sex and conflate it with the concept of gender. If someone who is male wants to say they are actually the female gender, sure that makes sense. But to claim that they are literally the female sex, no different to a biological woman, that seems to be the kind of extremist far left claim the documentarian is taking issue with. And it's the kind of question that far left extremists want to be taboo, want people to be too scared to ask openly. I personally don't think you can cancel the concept of sex.

        • chepsk8 on 03/06/2023 - 14:09
          +7

          Nobody is saying that though, a majority of pro-trans progressives understand that it is gender that you are transitioning, not sex, it is far more common for people such as yourself failing to understand these concepts, and then pretending like everybody thinks we’re trying to rewrite the concept of XX, XY, that is just not happening and I don’t know who exactly you’re arguing with in this situation, because I don’t believe you can change your sex.

        • CurlCurl on 03/06/2023 - 15:55
          +6

          But to claim that they are literally the female sex, no different to a biological woman, that seems to be the kind of extremist far left claim

          What does being left or right in politics have to to do with transgender? Also after full top and bottom surgery which bathroom should they use?

          • nomekop on 03/06/2023 - 21:56
            -1

            @CurlCurl: It's funny how @chepsk8 didn't answer the question. And it's exactly what's happening, haven't you heard of men in woman sports?

            • CurlCurl on 04/06/2023 - 09:27

              @nomekop:

              And it's exactly what's happening, haven't you heard of men in woman sports?

              Yep I have but, finally some sporting authorities are banning M/F transgender in sport.

              As an aside, I think I have more knowledge on transgender than the majority here, and before anyone asks or assumes, I am not T/S.

        • chepsk8 on 03/06/2023 - 15:04
          +2

          There's nothing to ponder, you either do accept the identity of transgendered people, or you don't, DailyWire is firmly within the camp of not believing in the identity of transgender people, and this documentary definitely exists as a device to further push that line of thought that trans people are "illegitimate", people such as yourself are quick to cry about the left wing biases in certain media groups and publications, and that's not always wrong, but you'll also dance around the clear biases something like the DailyWire carries when producing their content, which is, shocker, right wing extremist as it gets, this documentary is not just "neutral pondering", it is very much a right wing piece further pushing their preferred agendas while pretending to be as "good faith" as possible.

            • chepsk8 on 03/06/2023 - 17:25

              @HarryBolt66: Yeah, something tells me a pro-trans netflix documentary would probably be lambasted as “left wing commie virtue signalling propaganda” if it was posted here.

              • ozhunter on 03/06/2023 - 17:30
                +1

                @chepsk8:

                left wing commie virtue signalling propaganda

                Because that's the side that supports it.

          • cookie2 on 03/06/2023 - 21:43
            +3

            @chepsk8: Not true. I accept that they may identify as a certain gender but it doesn't mean I accept that I SEE THEM AS THAT PARTICULAR GENDER. See the distinction?

            • Motek Benzona on 03/06/2023 - 22:19
              +3

              @cookie2: THIS
              Dressing as you want, calling yourself what you want and thinking you are a female is perfectly fine

              Actually expecting me to accept you are a real biologocal female, at risk of social punishment if i do not, is a mental illness

              The mere discussion that guys can be actusl real 100% girl is so absolutly ludicrously insane.

            • chepsk8 on 03/06/2023 - 22:35
              +2

              @cookie2: Really if you just want to do the bare minimum, respect people's pronouns, don't be an outward bigot towards trans people, and at that point, yeah, you're allowed to think whatever you want internally, because truthfully, few people will care how you see them, how they identify doesn't depend on your assessment.

              • cookie2 on 04/06/2023 - 14:45

                @chepsk8: If my assessment doesn't matter to people then why would I need to use their preferred pronoun?

                And we have it there, keep your opinion to yourself. You don't see how that's twisted? My opinion is only being forced to be expressed where their wants to use a particular pronoun, would challenge my opinion.

                If all this pronoun BS stopped, people that doesn't necessarily agree would never share the opinion in the first place.

                Are you stating that you're a bigot if you don't want to use a pronoun someone identifies as?

                • chepsk8 on 05/06/2023 - 17:57
                  +1

                  @cookie2: Pronoun bs? So you just don’t have pronouns then? Don’t go by he/him, she/her? Whatever they are why should i respect what you go by then, you’re just “forcing” your pronouns onto me then, maybe i’ll just refer to you as it/that, that’s about all you deserve anyway.

      • capslock janitor on 03/06/2023 - 17:30

        delegitimise transgender people, that is the reason for this entire “documentary”’s existence, that is blindingly

        did u watch thho

      • Aarchangel on 04/06/2023 - 13:13
        +1

        … an intent by the producers…

        Is there an intent behind the drag queen story time as well?

    • snoopydoop on 03/06/2023 - 14:18

      Disingenuous that you're suggesting I'm asking for censorship.

      I posted a far less inflammatory post of the exact same circumstance, and it was removed and my account was even flagged. Since this moderation decision was made, it throws into question whether this documentary is truly considered a deal, or belongs in the forums - and the motives for why this one can remain up but an uncontroversial one can't.

      The second thing I'm asking for is that when the decision to leave something inflammatory like this up that moderation be extremely vigilant, because there is absolutely a difference between "difference of opinion" (which is what many of the comments there are, I disagree with them but I'm not referring to them here), and actual hate speech.

      • sakurashu on 03/06/2023 - 23:41

        So you're claiming it would be a fine solution if your other post was added back?
        I don't see that as one of the options at the bottom of your post - seems more like you're keen to use it as an opportunity to remove the other post, so I don't think it's disingenous at all to suggest you're asking for censorship

        • snoopydoop on 03/06/2023 - 23:48
          +1

          If my post wasn't removed, and there was a precedent for this sort of "deal", then no, I wouldn't have a problem with it being up.
          But that is not the reality we're in - it has been kept up as an exclusion to the rule. That much is clear.

          My second issue regarding the most hateful of comments would still apply in that circumstance however.

          • sakurashu on 03/06/2023 - 23:51

            @snoopydoop: I don't agree that that is clear at all, it could be a simple matter of 2 different moderators. I suppose we will see.

            From your own post edit it looks like the hate speech was removed - is that not the case?

            • snoopydoop on 04/06/2023 - 00:13
              +1

              @sakurashu: There was certainly more remaining after that edit. That was just one example of many. I sent a couple of further examples in comments today, and saw some others do the same. Not sure if in this thread or the other one, but yeah I'm certainly not spending more time going through the hundreds of comments to see which ones have or haven't been removed.

              Possibly could be 2 different moderators - but I'm sure they're aware of all this, and the silence seems pretty intentional by now. It really seems like the site condones all decisions here and any comments that have remained published.

              • Moderatorneil on 04/06/2023 - 00:30

                @snoopydoop:

                Possibly could be 2 different moderators - but I'm sure they're aware of all this, and the silence seems pretty intentional by now. It really seems like the site condones all decisions here and any comments that have remained published.

                It's the weekend. Sorry if we don't respond to all reports (100s today), posts, comments immediately. Not sure what you're referring to 2 moderators/staff.

                We don't condone or support whatever deal. That's up to the community.

                • snoopydoop on 04/06/2023 - 00:37
                  +1

                  @neil: The "2 moderators" was a reference to a comment above (they were suggesting two different decisions from different moderators, one moving to the forums and one removing and giving me a warning on my account)

                  I understand it's the weekend - nobody should be overworked, however I do feel that some pretty hateful stuff stayed up for quite a long time, and it'd be good if there were ways to reduce this occuring. There's obviously some level of moderation capacity as other things were being removed, perhaps creating better prioritisation in these lower capacity periods is maybe something that could be improved?

                  • Moderatorneil on 04/06/2023 - 01:14

                    @snoopydoop:

                    @neil: The "2 moderators" was a reference to a comment above (they were suggesting two different decisions from different moderators, one moving to the forums and one removing and giving me a warning on my account)

                    Both decisions made by me in conjunction with feedback with other moderators be up on a Saturday morning. I saw it not meeting the deal posting guidelines and after discussion we found the previous comments from the other post.

                    I understand it's the weekend - nobody should be overworked, however I do feel that some pretty hateful stuff stayed up for quite a long time, and it'd be good if there were ways to reduce this occuring. There's obviously some level of moderation capacity as other things were being removed, perhaps creating better prioritisation in these lower capacity periods is maybe something that could be improved?

                    I think when it comes to comments on the Internet, we just need to accept that comments can't be acted on ASAP especially if discussion with others is needed. We're certainly way faster than Twitter, Facebook, IG etc.

          • Moderatorneil on 04/06/2023 - 00:26

            @snoopydoop:

            If my post wasn't removed, and there was a precedent for this sort of "deal", then no, I wouldn't have a problem with it being up.
            But that is not the reality we're in - it has been kept up as an exclusion to the rule. That much is clear.

            Incorrect. One is always free, the other isn't. But it wasn't removed for that reason. Sorry if I'm repeating, I've been out the whole day and there are loads of comments.

      • Moderatorneil on 04/06/2023 - 00:24

        The second thing I'm asking for is that when the decision to leave something inflammatory

        What guidelines do you suggest that can be applied to remove deals that are "inflammatory" that don't end up with staff assessing and making arbitrary decisions?

        • snoopydoop on 04/06/2023 - 00:30
          +1

          Not suggesting that deals get removed entirely for that reason.

          For instance, this post in particular I think could have used with a closed comment section, the way it turned out. I think particularly the comments were a huge disservice to this site.

          Perhaps posts that are illiciting a huge number of comments like this could have their comment sections closed, if moderation teams aren't able to keep up with the quantity.

          • WoodYouLikeSomeCash on 04/06/2023 - 00:31

            @snoopydoop:

            For instance, this post in particular I think could have used with a closed comment section

            Then people can’t downvote the bargain or discuss the bargain which defeats the purpose of OzBargain?

            • snoopydoop on 04/06/2023 - 00:34
              +2

              @WoodYouLikeSomeCash: Honestly, I think in these circumstances, when there is actual neo-nazi rhetoric that stays up for hours because the moderation team can't keep up - that this stuff doesn't get published on the site takes a higher priority than the issue you mention here.

        • Techie4066 on 04/06/2023 - 00:30

          That's what moderators do. On every other civil forum I've visited.
          That's what even judges do. They interpret the law and interpretations can vary, so do applications of laws to cases brought before them. Heck, have you seen our defamation laws?

          • Moderatorneil on 04/06/2023 - 01:08

            @Techie4066: Well in that case, there are no laws (or guidelines in this case) to interpret.

            • Techie4066 on 04/06/2023 - 01:12
              +2

              @neil: You're being obtuse. Of course the moderation of inflammatory deals requires relevant guidelines. I'm sure you guys have added to and adapted guidelines over the years to meet requirements. I'm not suggesting their wording, I'll leave that to the experts. Have a good night.

              • neil on 04/06/2023 - 01:33

                @Techie4066:

                You're being obtuse.

                That's solutary for a month!

                • Techie4066 on 04/06/2023 - 01:40

                  @neil: What's solutary? Or am I being obtuse… Honestly idk

                  • neil on 04/06/2023 - 01:49

                    @Techie4066: Quote from Shawshank Redemption where Andy calls the warden obtuse and is put in solitary for a month. Video

                    • Techie4066 on 04/06/2023 - 01:53
                      +3

                      @neil: Uh huh, I don't think dealing with trans lives is a humorous matter (they cop enough daily hatred to not need to see more blatant discrimination on their nightly deal scroll) but thanks for the light entertainment regardless. And I'm glad you're not going insane dealing with this barrage of complaints. I just don't think you recognise the gravity of this situation.

    • MessyG on 03/06/2023 - 17:25
      +16

      I watched the whole thing and that's not the problem with it. It has nothing to do with not being allowed the question.

      First of all, it's a LOT of men discussing what a woman is.
      Second of all, there is absolutely no fact checking on any of what is said by the experts in it, that's a pretty basic thing to do.
      Third, SO many images of children used to make their point that it's really off. I'm a woman, and a parent and I think this is ****ing awful.

      So by all means, ask the question but ask it meaningfully. Ask it with a group of women. Women with a female phenotype. Women with an intersex phenotype. Women who've had mastectomies. Women who've had children. Women who can't have children. Trans women. Trans women who've returned to identifying as male. Ask with it with those working with children. Fact check it all. The amount of people who need to be involved in this discussion that were left out is just staggering.

      Anyone who found this credible just disappoints me.

      • ozhunter on 03/06/2023 - 17:29

        I'm a woman

        What makes that so?

        The amount of people who need to be involved in this discussion that were left out is just staggering.

        Lol, none of those people needed to be involve.

        • MessyG on 03/06/2023 - 17:49
          +9

          Well that tells me all I need to know - that you think multiple women don't need to be involved in a 'what is a woman' discussion.

          • ozhunter on 03/06/2023 - 18:04
            +1

            @MessyG: Tells me and everyone that you think what a women is subjective instead of objective.

            • MessyG on 03/06/2023 - 18:24
              +6

              @ozhunter: If you truly thought it was objective then you wouldn't think that a broad spectrum of women answering that question was unecessary. I had to take a screenshot of that it was so staggering. Imagine thinking that women don't get to answer that question.

              • ozhunter on 03/06/2023 - 18:52

                @MessyG:

                If you truly thought it was objective then you wouldn't think that a broad spectrum of women answering that question was unecessary

                Of course I would. What someone thinks they are is irrelevant.

                Imagine thinking that women don't get to answer that question.

                They don't lol. Well they can, it doesn't mean they are right just because they call themselves a woman. You don't need to be a slave to think slavery is wrong.

                • MessyG on 03/06/2023 - 18:58
                  +4

                  @ozhunter: I would say the vast majority of women coming up with a consistent answer to the question would be much more right than a guy on Internet.

                  Also just fyi, the word woman comes from wifman. Wife-man.

                  • Fredorishi on 04/06/2023 - 09:19
                    +3

                    @MessyG: Thats one of the things that bugs me the most about guys like Matt Walsh and so many of his fans. They dont really give the slightest ship about women, or womens rights or about children either. They don't even give a flying fig about "the answer" The only thing they care about is their own self-inflated opinions and hating on people they don't bother to try and understand. The point that ozhunter clearly missed was that you talked about it being "MEANINGFUL". What a joke to think that a meaningful discussion about a group of people shouldn't actually involve that group. My mind boggles at that response.

      • Aarchangel on 04/06/2023 - 13:24
        +1

        it's a LOT of men discussing what a woman is.

        No, it's actually about a LOT of men calling themselves women.

        • CurlCurl on 04/06/2023 - 18:17

          No, it's actually about a LOT of men calling themselves women.

          Hey. Is 2.2% of the male population a lot? Think you best repeat maths in primary school.

          • SBOB on 04/06/2023 - 18:21

            @CurlCurl: 2.2% of the male population identifies as transgender?

            • CurlCurl on 04/06/2023 - 18:34

              @SBOB:

              2.2% of the male population identifies as transgender?

              Yep. From peer reviewed Journal papers.

              • SBOB on 04/06/2023 - 18:48

                @CurlCurl: I find that number difficult to believe.

                • CurlCurl on 04/06/2023 - 19:41

                  @SBOB:

                  find that number difficult to believe.

                  it's your choice. Just remember, it's been well researched and peer reviewed by three academics with PhDs and published.

                  • SBOB on 04/06/2023 - 21:38

                    @CurlCurl: Got a link?
                    I can find random sample points for differing surveys etc, but I'm yet to find anything that says 2.2% of the global population of males identified as such.

                    That total number that equates to is just difficult to believe being factual, rather than one random survey sample.

    • GrueHunter on 03/06/2023 - 19:39

      I wAs jUST asKiNg a QuEsTiOn

      • payton on 04/06/2023 - 20:59
        -1

        angry man repeatedly yells at cloud

  • nGu on 03/06/2023 - 13:59
    +22

    Thank you for your report for Free: "What Is a Woman?" Documentary @ The Daily Wire via Twitter (Deal Post)
    The outcome of the review for this content is: No action taken.
    Message:
    This time-limited free multimedia item complies with our posting guidelines. We moderate content according to our published guidelines, not to users' personal opinions.

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/333699
    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/758356
    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/751474

    If you allow racism, propagation of conspiracy theories, hate speech, homophobia, etc. then the site becomes a place for all of these. You're letting this website become a place for these guys to make people choose sides in made-up conflicts and imaginary culture wars.

    Don't hide behind the "free speech" shield. You know what they're trying to do and you're just letting them do it.

    • chepsk8 on 03/06/2023 - 14:13
      +13

      Christ, those comments on that indigenous person ticket discount are just embarrassing.

    • EightImmortals on 03/06/2023 - 14:37
      +7

      "f you allow racism, propagation of conspiracy theories, hate speech, homophobia, "

      Except those are all subjective terms based upon the whims and perceptions of the individual. Why should someone's icecream thread be censored because you don't like vanilla icecream?

        • EightImmortals on 03/06/2023 - 14:42
          +1

          Try reading it again, doesn't sound like you learned much at all. :)

          I had a read through that other thread and saw none of those things. And while I did watch the doco a while back I'm pretty sure there was none of that in there either.

            • chepsk8 on 03/06/2023 - 14:53
              +4

              @AwesomeSaucem: For example, back on that notorious "deal", AlmostBanned called gay men kissing to be degenerate and immoral, I'd be interested in seeing if EightImmortals finds this to just be an innocuous opinion, or a hateful statement.

            • EightImmortals on 03/06/2023 - 14:55

              @AwesomeSaucem: That is true in the context of what we are talking about.

              Of course there is also real racism, which seems to be focussed on white people these days but historically in the west non-white people were it's victims. And all cultures there has been racism directed at the 'other'. There was no racism, real or concocted in that other thread nor in the doco it was advertising.

              Homophobia ( the fear of homosexuals) while I will accept it exists in a minority of individuals (though not so much in the last 20 years or so) tacking the word 'phobia' on the end of something is simply a cultural engineering tactic to stop any questioning or debate on a given movement. Some of us are old enough to remember when the word 'Gay' meant 'happy and carefree'. Language engineering always precedes cultural engineering and examples abound. Just because someone might speak against something or some belief or opinion does not mean they are being hateful towards anyone.

              • Phanatic on 04/06/2023 - 00:55
                +2

                @EightImmortals: "Homophobia" and its offshoots aren't about fear of gay individuals - it's the fear of the acceptance and normalisation of LGBTQ+ people, and our ability to fully participate in society like everyone else. It's a fear that people generally won't bat an eyelid when they see two dudes kissing, in the same way people generally don't bat an eyelid when a straight couple kiss - not fear of the two dudes themselves.

                It's called a phobia because, as per the Australian Government's Health Direct website, "phobias are persistent and extreme fears that are out proportion with the actual threat posed."

                • EightImmortals on 04/06/2023 - 12:47
                  +2

                  @Phanatic: Well that's one definition I guess.
                  From what I've seen of most people who are objecting to this social experiment they are not objecting to 'LGBTQ+ people' as much as they objecting to a pernicious agenda of having an ideology forced on society and vulnerable school aged children in particular. I have also seen quite a few LGBTQ+ people who are in agreement with the so-called 'homophobes', gays against groomers are one group that comes to mind. In short, most people don't care what consenting adults get up to in the privacy of their own homes, it's the activists trying to force their morality and lifestyle choices on everyone else that are causing all the problems. And if you don't understand that this a top-down movement driven by some very powerful and well funded individuals , corporations and governments for their own reasons then you need to do a bit more research into it IMO.

                  • chepsk8 on 04/06/2023 - 13:53
                    +1

                    @EightImmortals: Force what upon kids, what ideology? To accept gay and trans people? “Gays against groomers” is a known right wing fluff organisation who’s entire existence is only to further push the idea that grooming is rife within trans and other LGBT communities, it only exists for people like you to quote it’s existence as some sort of gotcha.

                    Being gay, trans, or anywhere else on the spectrum of LGBT isn’t a “lifestyle choice” or an “ideology”, as much as you, as I presume, didn’t choose to be straight, these people didn’t “choose” to be gay or trans, that’s just who they are.

                    • EightImmortals on 06/06/2023 - 07:50
                      +1

                      @chepsk8: " Force what upon kids, what ideology? "

                      How 'bout this kind of thing?

                      https://twitter.com/i/status/1658264096259842119

                      Rooftop Bar Melbourne had drag performers singing “ass everywhere” while encouraging a child to twerk in front of a group of adults. Absolutely disgusting. This is sick and twisted.

                • cookie2 on 04/06/2023 - 14:54

                  @Phanatic: Where did you even get this opinion? Ofcourse homophobia is about a fear/dishust etc of gay people and not wanting that person near you. You're nade up opinion is not a phobia, and it's made up.

      • GrueHunter on 04/06/2023 - 12:38

        “I’m 14 and I think absolute moral relativism is a valid worldview that definitely wasn’t comprehensively debunked in a single sentence thousands of years ago”

    • ozhunter on 03/06/2023 - 17:32
      +1

      Funny how so many pro-trans agenda people mention this. Only an issue because it conflicts with their woke propaganda. It's like telling a guy in a boxing match to don't try to defend yourself and by continuing that it's his fault for the "war"/"boxing match" continuing on.

    • cookie2 on 03/06/2023 - 21:52
      +2

      How is the deal spreading any of these things? It's just peoples opinions. Stop getting your knickers or boxers in a twist, grow up, uncross your arms and realise that people are allowed to have different opinions. And share them. Unless they're actively trying to hurt others.

  • Wiadro on 03/06/2023 - 13:59
    +6

    big line at the pop corn machine, sorry for my delay

    • tharlow on 03/06/2023 - 14:03
      +3

      Somewhere in there is a kernel of truth

    • chepsk8 on 03/06/2023 - 14:25
      +12

      Hold on, wait, I think I hear them coming now with their “sheep” comments.

        • chepsk8 on 03/06/2023 - 14:29
          +5

          Yep, I mean even in the US where this shite is being exported from, the right have been rushing to ban an absurd amount of books recently.

  • monky on 03/06/2023 - 14:18
    +1

    Australians gave their lives in WW2 to end dehumanization… Look how far we've sunk.

    • AustriaBargain on 03/06/2023 - 14:31
      +9

      Australians gave their lives in WW2 to defend freedom. Ask the average WWII veteran what they think of this documentary.

      • EightImmortals on 03/06/2023 - 14:39
        +3

        Or the world in general these days. We might have beat the Germans but the fascists simply changed their names, infiltrated society and the intelligentsia and continued right where that pesky WW2 interrupted them.

        • Phanatic on 04/06/2023 - 00:59
          +1

          In this analogy the modern fascists would be the ones continuing the Nazi persecution of trans and other queer people, yes?

          • EightImmortals on 04/06/2023 - 07:40

            @Phanatic: In this modern world where everything is upside down and back to front the fascists are the ones using actual violence, either direct or using the force of the state to harm or intimidate.

    • orangetrain on 03/06/2023 - 15:46
      +4

      Post-WW2 Anti-Fascist Educational Film | Don't Be a Sucker | 1947: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K6-cEAJZlE

      Free USA propaganda but I think it's well made.

      tl;dw: Fascists pick on the weakest to gain power. To prevent fascism from taking hold, everyone has a duty to protect all minorities from any persecutions even if we're not that particular minority.

      • TooSerious2 on 03/06/2023 - 18:48
        +1

        Thanks for sharing that. It's good to remember what fascism looks like.

  • brendanm on 03/06/2023 - 14:47
    +12

    People can say whatever they like, unless I disagree with it the post.

    • snoopydoop on 03/06/2023 - 14:50
      +7

      Absolutely not mate. Written countless times that there are many, many comments in that post I completely disagree with that I am not referring to. That I am specifically referring to genuinely hateful comments - and I even gave a very specific example of the sort of comment I was talking about.

      In regards to the post being up at all, I find it hypocritcal given my post was removed and my account given a warning. Lack of consistency, lack of moderation for truly hateful things - not just things that I disagree with.

      EDIT: I just read through your comments in the thread, and while I completely disagree with your comments - they are not the blatantly hateful comments I am referring to.

      • brendanm on 03/06/2023 - 14:52
        +2

        Plenty of people being hateful toward other groups on here that you don't jump on board and whinge about.

        That's just life, some people hate some things, other people hate other things. If you are so thin skinned that some comments from randoms on an internet forum upset you, you would be wise to follow the wise words of Tyler the creator.

        Edit - isn't it telling that not one person in that thread could answer my question? Brings to mind a Theodore Dalrymple quote.

      • lostgoat on 03/06/2023 - 14:53

        Your a Naughty Boy for getting a warning hehe .
        There rules or the Hwy Bud !

      • AustriaBargain on 03/06/2023 - 15:09
        +3

        If you think it was unjust for your Mr Beast video to get removed, why are you campaigning for this documentary to be removed? Shouldn't you also think removing this documentary is unjust.

        • snoopydoop on 03/06/2023 - 15:18
          +3

          Happy to accept that decision. Maybe these sorts of posts shouldn't be deals. But then there's inconsistency in moderation here and I'd like to know why.
          This is on top of this post attracting quite a few hate speech comments that remain up for hours unchecked, and the site making this decision to make a unique rule to keep the twitter post up as a deal with that understanding. Yet they're very quick to make the moderation decision to give my account a warning for posting a MrBeast docco.

          I'd like this site to be welcoming to all because it is a community after all. The contents surrounding this post are not conducive to that.

          • AustriaBargain on 03/06/2023 - 15:21

            @snoopydoop: “Jealousy is both reasonable and belongs to reasonable men, while envy is base and belongs to the base, for the one makes himself get good things by jealousy, while the other does not allow his neighbor to have them through envy" - Aristotle

      • brendanm on 03/06/2023 - 15:02
        +1

        I don't know what your are talking about? What got removed?

          • brendanm on 03/06/2023 - 15:04

            @AwesomeSaucem: I skim read while doing other things. Got enough of a summary.

              • brendanm on 03/06/2023 - 15:09

                @AwesomeSaucem: Yeah, sure, I don't agree with censorship. Sadly thought, being Mr beast, it was likely extreme cringe.

                Edit - reading ops bit about his post, I think it qualifies as a deal more than the stupid subs people always post.

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