Moderation on "What Is a Woman?" Post

snoopydoop on 03/06/2023 - 12:22
Last edited 03/06/2023 - 12:55

On recommendation from a moderator, I'm writing here to discuss/clarify on what I feel is inconsistent and insufficient moderation on this controversial post.
Please be civil in these comments - I don't want arguments, and am posting this in good faith in order to hopefully improve the site - not start fights.

There are two main issues I wanted to bring up here:
1) Inconsistency with deal being allowed to be posted in the first place
2) Genuinely problematic comments not being moderated effectively enough on a post which is clearly going to generate them.

Inconsistency with deal being allowed to be posted

The reason that a moderator gave in the comments as to why this deal was allowed is a "documentary which is not usually free thus meets the standards for a deal".

This inspired me to search for an almost identical circumstance (but intentionally not a political/inflammatory one). I truly posted what I would perceive a deal in the same vein. It was a documentary about YouTuber MrBeast, which has been professionally created by streaming service Curiosity Stream. It is available paid on their streaming service, and even has an official IMDB page.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt17008854/

Curiosity Stream has uploaded this for free to their YouTube channel - a documentary which is usually paid for, which is now available for free, thus qualifying for a deal under posting guidelines.
My post was immediately moved to the forums, then removed, and I even received an account warning for posting. ("Trolling level 1")

I personally see no differences between these two posts - this I Am A Woman documentary has been posted specifically to generate comments and outrage, and is by its nature no less genuine a documentary than the MrBeast one on Curiosity Stream's subscription service.

This makes me feel like the reason it has been kept up is for some sort of political point, or moderation bias. I'd love some clarification for whether this is not the case - but I do not see how my own post could have been seen as "trolling" or "inflammatory", when this original post is arguably one of the most inflammatory "troll" posts that has ever been posted on the site. Which brings me to point 2….

Problematic Comments on the Post

When the media posts an article that could attract inflammatory comments, due to the 2021 High Court ruling puting the onus on publications for comments published on their website, they ensure that they have full moderation capabilities to ensure there are no hateful comments. When this moderation capability is no longer available, comments are closed, either temporarily while they catch up, or for good.
However, given there has been moderation for the duration this post has been up (eg. on my post), there has been some level of moderation capacity during this time, despite it being Friday/Saturday.

There are quite a few substantially hateful comments in this thread. I am specifically talking about comments that are genuinely hateful.

Probably the biggest is there are a large number perpetuating the conspiracy theory that the LGBTQIA+ community as a whole grooms children.. This is a view with neo-Nazi roots, and is well documented.
I mean, there is a comment up there right now saying "Destroy pedo freaks", a slogan that the neo-nazi group recently held up in Melbourne.
This is absolutely not the only comment that is blatantly hateful, there are many like it there. Perhaps others can point out the worst offenders. (EDIT: Removed ~2.5hrs after commented - plenty more with similar rhetoric that have been up for a long time)

If it is OzBargain's decision that posts like these are allowed to be up there - they absolutely need to make sure that the comments published are not hateful, and are well moderated. Otherwise it certainly comes across as acceptance of these comments. This is not very welcoming of LGBTQIA+ members of this website.
It was clear from the get go that the decision to keep this post up would require incredible amounts of moderation, given it was posted with the intention of aggravation, and keeping comments such as this one up there is upsetting to see that OzBargain is happily publishing these comments.

TLDR: I am disappointed in OzBargain's decision to leave this post up, their decision to give me an account warning for a far less inflammatory version of the same type of post, and the fact that there are many hateful comments rooted in neo-Nazi ideology currently on the website, still not moderated. To be clear - I am not talking about all comments in favour of this as a deal, I am talking very specifically about the blatantly hateful comments.
Site Discussion

Comments

  • Ghost47 on 04/06/2023 - 01:21
    +4

    It makes no sense that the MrBeast doco you linked was deleted for trolling and the original Matt Walsh doco wasn't. Completely inconsistent behaviour.

    • Moderatorneil on 04/06/2023 - 01:26

      Incorrect. See this comment.

    • franco cozzo on 04/06/2023 - 04:18
      +2

      op signposted their intentions to troll. got taken out for trolling….whats the problem exactly?

      • Eeples on 04/06/2023 - 23:52

        I guess the problem is that others have missed out on the deal.

  • dylo on 04/06/2023 - 06:21
    +11

    OzBargain Forums turned into a rightwing echo chamber in 2020 and hasn't recovered. Was once a great place to share ideas, now its just trash.

    • krazek on 04/06/2023 - 08:04
      +4

      What? Most of the CV19 discussion on this forum has been extremely left biased, agreeing with govt etc. Any hint of disagreement has been downvoted to the max

      • franco cozzo on 04/06/2023 - 08:18
        +3

        …you sound suspiciously like an anti-vaxxer….?? do you perchance partake in conspiracy theories like the vaccines might not be safe & effective as we were led to believe and that they were not entirely a free decision and actually mandated???? ….you must be cooked mate!!!!!

      • morse on 04/06/2023 - 08:33
        +7

        Opinions and politics are not as binary as just left and right. Most polls and voting on this site overtime show a moderate left leaning. Thereā€™s a few far right posters that comment a lot. Thereā€™s also some socially conservative, but economic centre/right voices, who are not far right.

        Debate around CV19 was never really about left and right, it was about peopleā€™s view on the role of government in terms of public safety vs freedom, many right wing conservatives supported restrictions and some lefties were more liberal in their views. You have to remember that the major parties are not all that different on how they govern in Australia. The mainstream view at the time was to use a public health approach, the vast majority of Australians supported this as evidenced by vaccination rates and following restrictions, irrespective of political leanings.

    • gyrex on 04/06/2023 - 09:19
      +1

      I'm vaccinated and supported the government's roll-out of the vaccines and I haven't seen this "right wing echo chamber" you speak of. I publically lambasted many antivaxers and would continue to do so. I also support the "What is a woman" documantary deal being posted and also agree with most of the content in it.

      But at the heart of it, I'm also a free speech absolutist so that's probably where the issue lies. This growth of cancel culture and the desperate erosion of free speech from the left is a dangerous road to travel in my opinion and should be avoided at all costs.

      • klonky on 04/06/2023 - 10:11
        +2

        I'm not against free speech. I just think ozbargain is not the right platform for culture wars.

        • gyrex on 04/06/2023 - 15:47
          +1

          It's only turned into a culture war because some people are upset about the content of the deal. I gained value from the deal and so did my friends and family and I'm thankful that someone took the time to post it because I had no idea of the deal's existence before I received my morning OzBargain email.

          This is a deal website. It performed its function.

      • Eeples on 04/06/2023 - 23:57

        How does book banning in many US states sit with your ā€˜desperate erosion of freedom of speechā€™ ?

        Or, the freedom to wear drag, Or, freedom of women to be in charge of their own reproduction.

        • gyrex on 05/06/2023 - 00:11

          How does book banning in many US states sit with your ā€˜desperate erosion of freedom of speechā€™ ?

          In my view, book banning of any kind is reprehensible. The same goes for people attempting to silence the opinions of others or censorship of any kind - I'm effectively a free speech absolutist.

          the freedom to wear drag

          No issue with it.

          freedom of women to be in charge of their own reproduction

          Completely support it.

          • Eeples on 05/06/2023 - 11:36

            @gyrex: The point I am making is it isn't just the left that has restricting freedom issues.

  • jacross on 04/06/2023 - 08:18
    +4

    I don't envy the job of the moderators on that thread but they have their guidelines and I suppose they need to ask themselves if they can keep up with the workload the guidelines demand. If not, perhaps the thread should be locked. This is primarily a bargain site and not a discussion site and a locked thread doesn't take the bargain away.

    Anyway, I noped out of that thread pretty quickly. Clearly a propaganda film with very little integrity and a discussion thread with very little real insight or good faith knowledge discovery discussion.

    • franco cozzo on 04/06/2023 - 08:24
      -1

      Clearly a propaganda film with very little integrity and a discussion thread with very little real insight or good faith knowledge discovery discussion.

      …128 Million Views & counting
      ….Universally highly rated on Film Ratings Sites such as IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes
      https://www.imdb.com/title/tt20256528/
      https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/what_is_a_woman
      …but yes its 'propoganda'. LOL!!!

    • Moderatorneil on 04/06/2023 - 12:06

      I don't envy the job of the moderators on that thread but they have their guidelines and I suppose they need to ask themselves if they can keep up with the workload the guidelines demand.

      It's a huge workload but people need to have realistic expectation on Internet platforms that things always won't be dealt with right away on the weekend but are usually cleared on Monday.

      For a fun little comparison, our Twitter accounts were blocked numerous times for being bots (pre-Elon) and it took complaints to the BBB to get them resolved due to no response.
      Our Facebook page is shadow banned due to one of the deal posts here posting a number of history books including a biography on Hitler. Multiple attempts at contact but no response from them.

  • Misplaced on 04/06/2023 - 09:06
    +5

    TLDR; OP is butthurt by this documentary for personal reasons, and has posted a long. windy overexplanation of why everyone should agree with his personal worldview and why the world isn't fair.

    • ssfps on 04/06/2023 - 14:17
      +1

      your tldr should mention the hitler/nazi comparison, too.

  • cfuse on 04/06/2023 - 09:11
    +2

    When someone's answer to an accusation of wrongdoing is to try to shut you up that instantly tells you that the accusation has some merit.

    You get the reputation you deserve. People can see what you'll tolerate and who you associate with and they'll judge you accordingly.

    None of this is brain surgery.

  • bhm133 on 04/06/2023 - 10:25
    +7

    It seems that so many people have not comprehended OP's post.

    This is about consistency across this site. There are clear rules for posting; what should be in the forum's and what should be a bargain.

    Doco in question was not a bargain. It is a forum post.

    OP tried to check mod consistency and post his own 'bargain'. It got shut down as trolling. Perhaps bad timing, however the inconsistency is still there.

    A lot of trolling is happening as a result of all of this. This doesn't help people share ideas, ideals and opinions which create deeper understanding. Instead it becomes a platform for heated and emotional commentary.

    I am really disappointed in the moderators handling of this.

    About 10 years ago (maybe) a long standing member of our community posted whether ozbargain was becoming like whirlpool. At that time I didn't feel the same way and mentioned it in my post. Unfortunately, I feel they are now correct. We are just being nasty, inflammatory and cruel to each other.

    Bonus points for someone who can find that post. I tried but can't…

    • ozhunter on 04/06/2023 - 10:47
      +4

      At least try read the mod's comments on this post. This has happened many times.

      • bhm133 on 04/06/2023 - 11:32

        Was that a suggestion that I do so, or more a general comment?

        If a suggestion, I have read most. Sometimes we get caught up in the trolling.

        If a general comment, thanks. Good point.

    • Moderatorneil on 04/06/2023 - 12:13

      OP tried to check mod consistency and post his own 'bargain'. It got shut down as trolling. Perhaps bad timing, however the inconsistency is still there.

      What's inconsistent? We've acted in accordance with our guidelines.

      Instead it becomes a platform for heated and emotional commentary.

      You should see the comments on video card deals or any accidents in the Automotive forum!

    • Ghost47 on 04/06/2023 - 13:58

      We are just being nasty, inflammatory and cruel to each other.

      Certain users are very good at this yet they are never penalty boxed when they should be.

  • gee-man on 04/06/2023 - 11:09
    +8

    This entire situation is an embarrassment for OzB and @Scott, letting this site ABOUT BARGAINS become a Twitter-level flame war, and the mods playing the fiddle as Rome burns.

    • lostgoat on 04/06/2023 - 12:46
      +2

      Evey business I know has grey areas in their t&cs and is open to interpretation. Mods could have simply used that to clean Ozbargain up a bit . This being classified as a deal is embarrassing for the site !

  • Raulioli8810 on 04/06/2023 - 14:11
    -3

    If you support these mentally ill and delusional individuals you are as perverted and misogynistic as they are. Simple as that

    • Tee Rex Arms on 04/06/2023 - 15:52
      +1

      Count me as a supporter

    • SBOB on 04/06/2023 - 16:00
      +2

      support these mentally ill and delusional individuals you are as perverted and misogynistic as they are.

      which "individuals" are you talking about?
      this post is about moderators, so that seems like a strange comment about the mods of the site.

  • dBagDealer on 04/06/2023 - 16:15
    +1

    this forum post is garbage and only an attempt at censorship and furthering woke agenda.

    • snoopydoop on 04/06/2023 - 16:30
      +7

      Nah, your comments referring to members of the LGBTQI+ community as being "sexual deviants" are pretty garbage actually. So is your comment referring to people in that community as "pedos". Really hateful.

      You seem to put a lot of energy in attempting to restrict the freedoms of people. How others live their life is none of your business.
      Very regressive, and completely un-Australian.

      • franco cozzo on 04/06/2023 - 16:49
        +1

        LGBTQI+ community as being "sexual deviants"

        but theyre always banging on about how much & the frequency of great sex theyre having compared to us cis-heteronormatives?

        …cant have it both ways!

        • SBOB on 04/06/2023 - 16:58
          +7

          "deviant" - something that deviates from a norm..

          so you're basing it being 'deviant' on the fact you never or rarely have 'great sex'..
          I think self burn lotion is in isle 6.

          • franco cozzo on 04/06/2023 - 17:09
            +1

            @SBOB: you seem a little sheltered there sbob…..

            eg. a sexual deviant:

            that was from a family friendly pride march too…lol!

            • SBOB on 04/06/2023 - 17:17
              +3

              @franco cozzo: but you quoted 'deviant' based on saying how frequent and quality of those activities.
              Not the type or what would be considered odd, different, or unnaceptable.

              The frequency or quality of such activities would not be the reason, which is what your comment said was the opposing comment that they 'couldnt have it both ways'

              So i guess they can have it both ways now

              eg. a sexual deviant:(pbs.twimg.com)
              that was from a family friendly pride march tooā€¦lol!

              really? from when?
              got a link to share as I to find that unacceptable and would happily join your opposition to such a 'family friendly' event?

              • franco cozzo on 04/06/2023 - 17:25

                @SBOB: lol….just shut up sbob

                • SBOB on 04/06/2023 - 17:26
                  +3

                  @franco cozzo: got that link though?
                  This family friendly pride march sounds terrible. Just link where that image was sourced from and I will happily join in condemning it.

                • SBOB on 04/06/2023 - 19:33
                  +1

                  @franco cozzo:

                  eg. a sexual deviant:(pbs.twimg.com)
                  that was from a family friendly pride march tooā€¦lol!

                  well, guess you're actually promoting or condoning that behaviour in the image you linked.
                  Absolutely no idea why, unless you're supporting it or dont want others to call it out, you'd post such an image link and not share when asked, the source so others could join or help condemn such a 'family friendly pride march' behaviour.

                  Unless you just had that image in your recent browser history or 'saved' images :/

                  • franco cozzo on 04/06/2023 - 19:37

                    @SBOB:

                    Unless you just had that image in your recent browser history or 'saved' images :/

                    are you trying to oppress my sexual freedoms sbob?
                    you should be ashamed of yourself, hypocrite…….

                    • SBOB on 04/06/2023 - 19:45
                      +3

                      @franco cozzo:

                      you should be ashamed of yourself, hypocriteā€¦ā€¦.

                      I'm not the one clearly promoting the image material.
                      I found the image you referenced, from this 'family friendly pride march', worrying and concerning. The fact you're actively promoting and protecting such a march, via sharing the image, is shocking. Your promotion, support, and defence of such images/behaviour should be called out.

                      • franco cozzo on 04/06/2023 - 19:48
                        -1

                        @SBOB: …just google 'pride march'. this is what the lgbtqia+ promotes itself as…its not exactly hidden.
                        also dont reply…ive blocked you

                        • SBOB on 04/06/2023 - 20:05
                          +3

                          @franco cozzo: Keeps promoting family friendly pride march material..and now censorship

                          Woke hypocritical behaviour indeed.

                        • Gervais fanboy on 05/06/2023 - 20:18

                          @franco cozzo:

                          this is what the lgbtqia+ promotes itself

                          That might be the case
                          But heā€™s asked you for a source, if you couldnā€™t trace the image you had shared. Just could up have shared something similar like this

                          https://m.facebook.com/6ixbuzztv/photos/a.1051259978373863/1ā€¦

                          https://m.facebook.com/6ixbuzztv/photos/a.1051259978373863/1ā€¦

                          How hard was that to do?
                          You are only adding fuelling to the fire by dodging him when you donā€™t even really have to.

                          also dont replyā€¦ive blocked you

                          Mate, if thatā€™s true you shouldnā€™t get to call out any of these woke dummies again.
                          Youā€™re doing exactly what youā€™d accuse them of doing.

                          Funnily, the other fella called you a Nazi yesterday and you just laughed him off (as you should)
                          But this is where you draw the line? Please tell me that you were only kidding.

                          • SBOB on 05/06/2023 - 21:05
                            +3

                            @Gervais fanboy:

                            Just could up have shared something similar like this

                            which is someone doing the same thing…

                            I find all of those photos offensive/idiotic/just simply bad ideas, but they are from different years and countries, yet this facebook post/source is claiming them all from some pride month event in 2019.
                            A quick tineye search finds that the left image is watermarked with 2017 from some pride parade in Frankfurt, the top (initial image) is from like 2014.

                            If the facts/reality are bad enough, why does a source need to lie/misrepresent/click-bait the information to further make their point?

                            Because riling up the outraged masses works better, and most outraged masses apply bugger all critical thinking to the images or information they are being presented with.

                            • Gervais fanboy on 05/06/2023 - 22:09
                              -1

                              @SBOB: Btw I accidentally shared the same link twice
                              This was the other link, i am using my phone rn and šŸ¤¦šŸ»ā€ā™‚ļø
                              Anyways
                              https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/weird-news/parents-fume-famā€¦

                              Btw thereā€™s thousands of these links. Itā€™s not meant to be some gotcha BS, I was just making a point with @franco. I wasnā€™t trying to combat you or anything.

                              but they are from different years and countries, yet this facebook post/source is claiming them all from some pride month event in 2019.

                              Okay, I did a rough search, I could see it was from a pride month. Just not sure which year.

                              A quick tineye search finds that the left image is watermarked with 2017 from some pride parade in Frankfurt, the top (initial image) is from like 2014.

                              Okay, whatā€™s your point?
                              They are now inadmissible coz they are too old?
                              I am not trying to prove a point about what happens in such marches still. I am sure thereā€™s a lot of decent people in there too but we only ridicule the outright lewd and nasty

                              If the facts/reality are bad enough, why does a source need to lie/misrepresent/click-bait the information to further make their point?

                              The sources didnā€™t lie about the occurrences or the month, only the year
                              Are you trying to say it doesnā€™t happen anymore?
                              As you alluded to, itā€™s bad enough and common enough.

                              @franco could have shared his original sources rather than digressing. I agree with you

                              Because riling up the outraged masses works better,

                              So you think masses would be more outraged if someone told them exactly whatā€™s happening today but showed them a picture from a few years ago because they shared a google result that just happened to come out on top?
                              lol Is your argument that its not happening anymore?? Because Iā€™d argue itā€™s getting worse every year.

                              You are being pedantic about something insignificant.
                              Those images were taken from a pride march and that same exact stuff still happens today.

      • dBagDealer on 04/06/2023 - 17:06
        -1

        Iā€™d oppose any sexual deviancy. just because you believe in subjective morality doesnā€™t mean everyone does. Iā€™d also call adult consensual incest a sexual deviancy whereas you donā€™t really have a moral basis to oppose it.

        So you see disagreeing with someoneā€™s moral valueā€™s doesnā€™t mean I hate them, Iā€™d just stay clear of them and if they seek to encroach over rights of my life and the wider community, Iā€™ll make sure I make a point to deter that. This is as human and Australian you can get.

        • SBOB on 04/06/2023 - 17:08
          +6

          Iā€™d oppose any sexual deviancy

          missionary with the lights off. Anything else is just subjective morality.

          • franco cozzo on 04/06/2023 - 17:15

            @SBOB: any reason youre bringing up users own personal sex lives into the thread sbob?
            …valid method of attacking poster you dont like?
            …whats next your going to start calling users incels?
            .lmfao

            • SBOB on 04/06/2023 - 17:25
              +1

              @franco cozzo:

              any reason youre bringing up users own personal sex lives into the thread sbob?

              I'm unsure what you mean.
              I'm joining ozmanp89 and opposing sexual deviancy.

              If you're in favour of it, thats fine, thats your choice, but I disagree with your moral values and as such would make a point to deter that.

          • morse on 04/06/2023 - 17:27
            +3

            @SBOB: Remember only if youā€™re intending on making another human tooā€¦ anything else would be lust.

            • SBOB on 04/06/2023 - 17:30
              +2

              @morse: indeed, though I didnt realise there was an alternative.
              Every sperm is sacred and all…

              • morse on 04/06/2023 - 20:10
                +2

                @SBOB: lol, true, every sperm is great, if a sperm is wasted, god gets quite irate.

        • ihfree on 05/06/2023 - 16:15
          -1

          whereas you donā€™t really have a moral basis to oppose it.

          That's quite a leap. Could you please explain this? How does one get the moral basis to oppose these things?

        • ihfree on 05/06/2023 - 16:20
          +1

          Also, going on about sexual deviancy and a moral basis is a bit odd when you've literally posted pictures of people in bondage attire to Ozbargain.

    • SBOB on 04/06/2023 - 16:34

      you're making an illeism comment right?

  • JuanLove on 04/06/2023 - 17:57
    +2

    It's a source of controversy. Disable the comments. Or nuke the post. I don't think the community would suffer too much if it was unaware of a free documentary. The rest is just noise. Honestly, who cares? For the people who are passionate about this - there are plenty of places where this stuff is discussed at length. A bargain website isn't the best forum. I'm sure most would agree.

    I'd love to know the stats surrounding how many reports your average bargain generates and how many were generated by this post. I don't know why you'd leave it up purely from a workload and potentially a legal/liability perspective. The point/problem here is that the weekend mod team has a hill to die on.

    • gyrex on 04/06/2023 - 18:07

      I don't think the community would suffer too much if it was unaware of a free documentary.

      I'm glad you're finally here since you're the absolute and authoritarian arbiter of what deals can and can't be posted on the site.

      I don't know why you'd leave it up

      Because it's a fantastic (free), time limited deal which many people have benefited from? Myself and many of my family and friends are grateful for the deal being posted and I wouldn't have known of its existence unless someone took the time to post it.

      • monky on 04/06/2023 - 19:50
        +1

        my family and friends are grateful

        haha

    • ozhunter on 04/06/2023 - 18:12
      +1

      Honestly, who cares?

      Lefties do, apparently a lot. lol

      It's like they're running around losing their minds that the transgender movement has been questioned. No one even gave a half-decent defense of it. šŸ¤£ All they try to do is get it removed.

    • Moderatorneil on 04/06/2023 - 19:50

      I'd love to know the stats surrounding how many reports your average bargain generates and how many were generated by this post.

      I'll add it the next stats post however it would definitely be less than 1 as not every post gets a report. Reports are also dependent on if they've been resolved. Resolution is based on how many staff are active but also how complex the issue (e.g. duplicates are easy).

      For the deal in question, there are 10 112 EDIT: (Apologies, OzBargain truncates report #s):) reports for the deal (all resolved) however many more for various comments made in the thread (some unresolved).

      The point/problem here is that the weekend mod team has a hill to die on.

      Same staff at night, weekends, weekdays. The weekend stuff just eats into our free time. No hill, just another day for us. :)

  • jackspratt on 04/06/2023 - 18:37
    +1

    I have gradually come to the view over the past year or two (or three) that "bargain" posts such as "What is a Woman", and "Trumps Australia" are a great source of driving up views and posts, which are the lifeblood of any public forum. Hence the reason they survive.

    In a different setting, they would be referred to as clickbait.

    • Moderatorneil on 04/06/2023 - 19:56

      While I understand how you conclude that as big social media companies do that, that is not how OzBargain runs. We have bans on many stores (e.g. Amazon 3rd party stores), don't run affiliate links for members, change clickbait titles to titles that spell out the entire deal without having to click in and a number of other things. We are a community first website for consumers.

      • STAVE on 04/06/2023 - 20:03
        +7

        So you see trans hate and US right wing culture wars as having a part in this community? Is that what I'm hearing?

        • gyrex on 04/06/2023 - 20:07
          +3

          Grow up.

          • STAVE on 04/06/2023 - 20:13

            @gyrex: Youre on fire champ keep posting through it

        • infinite on 04/06/2023 - 22:31
          +1

          You appear to be hearing voices then, if that's the case. I suggest you seek medical help.

  • STAVE on 04/06/2023 - 18:55
    +7

    Perhaps neil is sympahetic to the cause?

    Seems very clearly like a link to a divisive and hate filled 'documentary' that any reasonable reader would believe is not a bargain.

    Not sure why this site is encouraging and supporting the import of US right-wing culture wars into the sitr

    • Moderatorneil on 04/06/2023 - 20:09

      Perhaps neil is sympahetic to the cause?

      Nope. I haven't seen the documentary but I did see that Twitter & Elon Musk were heavily promoting it on Twitter's FYP. I do wonder out loud if this will affect the popularity of Tesla deal posts here which are very popular (most popular post on OzBargain ever).

      Not sure why this site is encouraging and supporting

      OzBargain neither supports or doesn't support deals. That is up to the community. About OzBargain

      • STAVE on 04/06/2023 - 20:20
        -6

        The banality of your response is matched only by it's disingenuous.

        I'm sure you know that keeping the post up is tacit endorsement by the site of its contents - you're a community manager, of course you know that.

        The only thing I'm more certain about is that you saying "I haven't watched the 'documentary'" is a lie.

        Best of luck with your Tesla deal.

        • payton on 05/06/2023 - 22:28

          The banality of your response is matched only by it's disingenuous.
          I'm sure you know that keeping the post up is tacit endorsement by the site of its contents - you're a community manager, of course you know that.
          The only thing I'm more certain about is that you saying "I haven't watched the 'documentary'" is a lie.
          Best of luck with your Tesla deal.

          You didn't get penalised (much/at all?) by the Mods for writing five abusive comments, and as thanks you accuse them some more.
          lol

          STAVE
          04/06/2023 - 17:31 Comment unpublished. (Personal attack)
          04/06/2023 - 17:53 Comment unpublished. (Personal attack)
          04/06/2023 - 18:05 Comment unpublished. (Personal attack)
          04/06/2023 - 18:24 Comment unpublished. (Personal attack)
          04/06/2023 - 18:33 Comment unpublished. (Personal attack)

          @neil

        • Almost Banned on 06/06/2023 - 14:20
          +1

          And this is part of why our society is so divided.
          Most people understand that websites like this do not endorse the deals that are posted here - nor do they disendorse those that are not.
          Most sane people understand that a mere forum is neutral as to posts put up by others.
          However SOME people can't handle that. For them neutrality is opposition.
          For those people not being ideologically pure enough is a crime - and must be punished.
          Those people are the real reason why everyone now feels that they have to take sides - and hold their positions to the death.

      • gyrex on 04/06/2023 - 20:27
        +8

        I'm sorry you have to deal with people like this @neil. Thanks for spending your precious time trying to keep things on track.

    • gyrex on 04/06/2023 - 20:19
      +2

      Apparently the vast majority of people see this deal for what it is: a time limited free viewing of a documentary which usually costs money to stream. The vast majority of people on OzB have upvoted the deal and everyone I've shared it with enjoyed it and garnered some value from it. A tiny fraction of a minority is making some noise about it.

      Insinuating that a moderator on here is "*sympathetic to the cause" without them stating so and having made a concerted effort to remain neutral through this thread is an asinine and frankly pathetic assertion. Just because moderators continue to leave it up because it meets the guidelines of it being a 'deal' doesn't mean that they support any of the messaging in it; all it means is that the deal is a deal - nothing more, nothing less. The moderators should be thanked for having to deal with petulant adult-babies on here who are incapable of grasping basic logic and/or free and open dialogue.

      • STAVE on 04/06/2023 - 20:21
        -5

        Give me a tldr? I'm not reading all that clap

        • STAVE on 04/06/2023 - 20:24
          -2

          Wait, don't bother

          I just read "free and open dialogue" - don't waste my time :-)

      • lostgoat on 05/06/2023 - 06:34
        +1

        Assign a value of all upvotes and negs on OzB It may be 13-1. Then with 4 upvotes to 1 neg it would be a huge failure !

      • morse on 05/06/2023 - 07:25
        +1

        Downvotes are limited, up votes are not. Same way if people make more than 5 inflammatory comments in a day it limits how many down votes they will get.

        Anyway the moderation is not the issue. Potentially thereā€™s an issue with the culture of the community and the guidelines which set the rules about what mods do and donā€™t act on. Something Scotty and team can and probably do think about.

        • Moderatorneil on 05/06/2023 - 10:26

          Same way if people make more than 5 inflammatory comments in a day it limits how many down votes they will get.

          Just for clarity, that isn't a thing. You might be talking about how many negative votes you can vote on a comment and that is capped equally for all members daily (5 I believe).

          • morse on 05/06/2023 - 12:25

            @neil: Yes, was referring to neg votes for comments, capped at 5 per person. I didnā€™t know it wasnā€™t capped for deals, I donā€™t really neg deals - but maybe I should start (as appropriate or course). I think what Iā€™ve noticed is that with capping neg votes for comments (I donā€™t necessarily disagree with this). It means the same person can make the same type of comment across a post say 20 times and overall people who disagree will run out of votes, but people who agree can keep upvoting so overall there will just be more upvotes than downvotes. If one person is very persistent with their commenting it will look like more people agree with that sentiment than disagree.

            • Moderatorneil on 06/06/2023 - 12:29

              @morse:

              It means the same person can make the same type of comment across a post say 20 times

              If someone is making the same comment multiple times then report it as it will be a duplicate comment.

              • morse on 07/06/2023 - 01:27
                +2

                @neil: Itā€™s not generally the exact same comment. Itā€™s comments with the same/similar meaning, or pro vs con a particular side of an argument (affirmative vs negative if talking traditional debating style). If people reported all comments with the same meaning/similar sentiment, most forum comments would be reported.

                Say for example it was a discussion about Tesla, and within the discussion there were 100 people who were pro Tesla and 30 against. There is no limit on comments, and no limit on upvotes but a limit of 5 per person downvotes.
                Thereā€™s no reason why there couldnā€™t be equal or more amount of comments that are anti Tesla (say 200 comments, 100 pro Tesla 100 anti Tesla) particularly if the anti Tesla people are more passionate and vocal. In this scenario even if all the pro Tesla people expended all their negative votes, anti Tesla comments could still show as +25. This would indicate disproportionate negative Tesla sentiment even if the general sentiment towards Tesla amongst forum users was more positive. (I have no opinion on Tesla).

                If you think more broadly around more divisive social issues, where there are collectives of people who get together and target particular forums to assert a particular view point, forums can be very skewed. More overt examples of this are paid, coerced or canvassed reviews and comments in public forums. Politicians do this where their staffers and PR companies are hired to comment on public forums to influence public dialogue around certain issues. Of course not unique to the internet or to OzBargain (thereā€™s some great case studies where similar has been done with fake letters to council and petitions, opposing churches and mosques), itā€™s just the limit on negative votes may amplify this effect.

                To be clear though, I think a limit on negative votes a good thing for other reasons.

                • ozhunter on 07/06/2023 - 03:34
                  +2

                  @morse:

                  If you think more broadly around more divisive social issues, where there are collectives of people who get together and target particular forums to assert a particular view point, forums can be very skewed.

                  You mean like with the covid threads?

                  Not being able to comment on a deal without a neg and limiting negs on comments will always favor the positive votes. Negativity isn't a good thing, lol. Why do you think Facebook and Twitter don't have a dislike button at all. You can always upvote those comments you do agree with.

                  • morse on 07/06/2023 - 04:12

                    @ozhunter: Yes I mean any thread. I have no problem with limits on down votes. Simply commenting that limits to negative votes but not positive votes can favour a more passionate ā€˜noisy minorityā€™ of any persuasion, particularly if strategic and coordinated by multiple users.

                    A noisy minority isnā€™t always a bad thing either. I think itā€™s important for diverse and minority views to be heard - where I think it is problematic is attacking another group (based on their gender, religion, race or sexuality), unduly influencing public policy (e.g. town planning decisions), spreading misinformation or influencing people in a harmful way. In these instances a voting system that gives more power to a noisy minority is one of those unhelpful side effects of ā€˜free speechā€™.

                    I wish Facebook had downvotes sometimes - it does of course have angry emoji reactions.

                    • ozhunter on 07/06/2023 - 04:26
                      +3

                      @morse: Is there any of those problems on this site?

                      Surely the silent majority could at least click the + button on the comments they agreed with if they actually cared enough about the thread. As for this topic, no one on your side of the fence has said anything that isn't ridiculous. You guys aren't even trying to defend your position, because it's indefensible. All you hear is(as with every topic, such as marriage and obesity), "don't have a discussion because someone's feelings could get hurt". All your "comrades" do is just try to make jokes/take jabs at the other side in hopes of derailing the discussion.

                      • morse on 07/06/2023 - 05:13
                        +1

                        @ozhunter:

                        Surely the silent majority could at least click the + button on the comments they agreed withā€¦

                        And they have. The top comment with 88 votes from pirateguybrush is

                        Well said. The post should be removed.

                        More moderate voices often donā€™t have the time, inclination or interest to stay engaged in a thread as long. So votes either way drop off.

                        Regardless my point relates to any minority view, and there are certainly both right wing extremists and trans activists who are more passionate about their beliefs than the average person and will use targeted strategies to boost support for their cause. Like Iā€™ve said three times, Iā€™m not opposed to the voting system, just commenting on the dynamics of it.

                        As for the rest of your comment, it did make me giggle - why so angry? It reminds me of when my child was around 2-2.5 and would be overtired and be doing something naughty or mean and Iā€™d say ā€œuh uh, gentle hands, be kindā€ or whatever and heā€™d say ā€œNo! I want to be mean, I donā€™t want to be kindā€ still under 4 but weā€™ve outgrown that phase. And yes there are jokes because all the nonsense about calling people comrades and ā€œI want to be meanā€ type comments are inherently funny.

                        • ozhunter on 07/06/2023 - 06:02

                          @morse: So, then it just a discussion between the extremists, lol.

                          Like Iā€™ve said three times, Iā€™m not opposed to the voting system, just commenting on the dynamics of it.

                          Thought it was obvious, when the + and - votes don't have equal requirements and limits. By default it would be the same, which is what they didn't want.

                          Who is angry? I was being kind when I said "make jokes/take jabs"; it's more like pointless dribble. You're side is the one always in a huff n puff wanting to get comments removed or threads deleted if it is about a topic you guys don't like. The "comrades" was a joke, but you're getting there, lol.

                          • morse on 07/06/2023 - 06:21
                            -1

                            @ozhunter: I havenā€™t actually voted for comments for the post to be removed. Iā€™m kinda neutral on it. I think most people are intelligent enough if they decide to view it, to see through it. It exists, people know it exists, itā€™s not a great look for OzBargain, but hey I donā€™t run their marketing and engagement strategy. So Iā€™m not sure what you mean by ā€˜your sideā€™

                            My comments on this thread and some others is observing this right leaning ā€˜anti wokeā€™ but also often racist, sexist, homophobic element that is heavily engaged in OzBargain. I find it a bit yuck. Reason being there are real neo nazis and neo nazi groups and a lot of the narrative on this and other threads aligns with statements from these groups. I like most Australians find Nazism to be abhorrent. Right wing extremism is a well recognised terrorist threat. And definitely not everyone who is anti trans is a neo nazi, but some are and I imagine there will be some that use OzBargain to promote their causes.

                            • ozhunter on 08/06/2023 - 15:13
                              +1

                              @morse:

                              itā€™s not a great look for OzBargain,

                              Think it's a great look that ozbargain didn't cave into the woke mob and just deleted specific comments.

                              My comments on this thread and some others is observing this right leaning ā€˜anti wokeā€™ but also often racist, sexist, homophobic element that is heavily engaged in OzBargain.

                              Yea but everything is racist, sexist, homophobic to your side. It's just another attempt to shame or derail anyone have a conversation about certain topics. If someone says "men are stronger than women"; is that sexist?

                              Reason being there are real neo nazis and neo nazi groups and a lot of the narrative on this and other threads aligns with statements from these groups.

                              Which narrative exactly? Does "homosexuality is immoral" fit your neo nazi definition. The way it looks is that people are caring less about your name calling and trying to shame them while you push your agenda.

                              • SBOB on 08/06/2023 - 16:28
                                +2

                                @ozhunter:

                                Does "homosexuality is immoral" fit your neo nazi definition.

                                no, but would seem to go against Ozb posting guidelines
                                expresses prejudice against a person or a group on the basis of particular attributes (including, but not limited to: race, religion, ethnic origin, national origin, disability, sexual orientation or gender).

                                • ozhunter on 08/06/2023 - 20:22
                                  -1

                                  @SBOB: Is it a person or group? Didn't think so either.

        • ozhunter on 05/06/2023 - 13:56
          +2

          Potentially thereā€™s an issue with the culture of the community

          Yea, when some people want to discuss the definition of something(woman, marriage) you people have a huge sook because it goes against your ideology.

          Then you guys keep trying to deny the culture war you start. It's not just in the US if you look at the discussions on here.

          • morse on 05/06/2023 - 18:04
            +4

            @ozhunter:

            you peopleā€¦ you guysā€¦ you start

            A lot of external attribution going on here

  • ncm on 04/06/2023 - 20:34
    +3

    It's a bargain for me and should be allowed.

    • Eeples on 05/06/2023 - 11:40
      +3

      Indeed, the Op's post being banned, deprives others of the bargain. (Despite the Op's intentions).

  • Shamcat on 05/06/2023 - 10:11
    +4

    This is not a good look for ozbargain.

    • Protractor on 07/06/2023 - 16:46
      -4

      The concept of greater good is lost on humans post covid. Never has self interest been more dominant. Why should this place be any different?

      The divisive natures and deluded splinter groups outside of core humanities are ramping up.>

      https://www.news.com.au/finance/real-estate/buying/toorak-hoā€¦

      This is what becomes on an overpopulated planet, where we compare everything we do and have with every other person.

      Yay for social media, and the parallel universe of the fabricated world of the interweb, it has done fixed it all, innit.

    • ozhunter on 05/06/2023 - 11:22
      +2

      Down votes are automatically removed when your comment has received 8 net neg votes.

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