Our Car Was Rear Ended by a Stolen Vehicle during a Police Chase

Ldhon123 on 26/04/2023 - 00:59
Last edited 26/04/2023 - 09:43 by 1 other user

Dear Ozbargain Community,

We need to share a frustrating situation that we're currently facing. Recently, my mother's car - a 2009 Honda CRV Lux - was rear-ended by a stolen car that was being pursued by the police. Despite the fact that the other driver was fully covered by Allianz Insurance, we were informed on the phone that they are not liable for our damages, leaving us to bear the cost of the repairs.

The police investigation is close to completion and the suspect, a 17-year-old repeat offender, has been identified. However, this does not help in terms of the financial burden that we are facing as a result of the collision. Unfortunately, we don't have comprehensive insurance since the car is an older model. We are considering legal action, however we don't know where to start and we are quite shocked that Allianz allegedly do not insure damage to other property if their clients car is stolen.

We could use your help and advice on how to navigate this complicated situation. If anyone has any experience with similar circumstances or can suggest resources to aid in this process, we would be grateful for your support.

Thank you for taking the time to read this message, and we hope to hear from you soon.

Automotive Honda SUV

closed Comments

  • Hybroid on 26/04/2023 - 01:09
    +61

    This page confirms what you've said… Neither stolen vehicle nor it's insurer are liable. The thief is personally liable and it's covered by full comprehensive insurance… that you don't have.

    https://www.smithslawyers.com.au/help/car-accident-stolen-ca…

    Sounds like you need a lawyer for some professional advice and may need to raise a court case. Probably added complications of them not being an adult too.

    • zoob on 26/04/2023 - 01:14
      +51

      Somehow, with the way lawyers charge, I very much doubt that it's going to be worth their while pursuing this. How likely is it that the 17 year old will have the means to pay for the damage anyway?

      Probably best to give up on this one and move on with your lives.

      Edit: it may also be worthwhile to consider comprehensive insurance in the future. In my experience, it often doesn't cost much more than TPP and it can save you a lot of headaches.

      • seannami on 26/04/2023 - 08:31
        +12

        OP could start with a community legal service, free legal advice and they often have social workers who might be able to refer for financial stuff.

        @dhon123 check out community legal clinics in your area, they are often run by unis. Monash University has one in Melbourne that's public access

      • EightImmortals on 26/04/2023 - 09:00
        +2

        Sometimes you can't get it.
        My previous car was 'written off' due to a bit of hail damage, I was allowed to keep the car but could only get 3rd part insurance.

        • Boioioioi on 26/04/2023 - 09:29
          +2

          You need to shop around in that case. I had a hail damaged car like that too. Some companies only offered 3rd party, some companies didnt want to insure it at all, but some would cover full comp, they just wouldn't cover any future hail damage.

          • EightImmortals on 26/04/2023 - 09:46
            +2

            @Boioioioi: OK cheers, will keep that in mind. Have a new car now so it's not a current issue. :)

            • Boioioioi on 26/04/2023 - 09:46

              @EightImmortals: All good :)

              • kiriakoz on 26/04/2023 - 19:14
                +2

                @Boioioioi: Good to know. I once had the same situation (hail damage old car). Got the payout (wasn't much) and kept the car uninsured (had all the compulsory stuff, but just not comprehensive) until the engine blew up one day. Luckily it had NRMA so got it towed home and was able to sell it for parts… happy with the outcome overall.

          • Harold Halfprice on 28/04/2023 - 00:00

            @Boioioioi: What would they value the car at, should it be written off?

            I can't imagine it would be much considering in a lot of cases hail damage would result in the car being written off.

          • techlead on 28/04/2023 - 10:01

            @Boioioioi: How would the insure know whether its existing or future hail damage? They are not going to keep a file with pictures of your car with existing hail damage, that's just too hard, too much admin work for it to be worth their while.

            • Boioioioi on 28/04/2023 - 10:03

              @techlead: exactly why I said they will not cover any hail damage if it is already hail damaged

      • DrScavenger on 26/04/2023 - 12:46

        Still they should sue so in the future they may get something back. Better than not taking any action.

        • itstuan on 27/04/2023 - 18:52

          It’s the legal fee vs repair cost. You may end up paying for both.

          • DrScavenger on 27/04/2023 - 18:54

            @itstuan: Yep but the kid will have that in his record forever.

            • ankor on 27/04/2023 - 20:09

              @DrScavenger: the kid probably already has a record as long as your arm..

      • JafferMoney on 26/04/2023 - 14:20
        +16

        LoL so should just let the 17 year off the hook? Bankrupt them.

        • derrida derider on 26/04/2023 - 17:30
          +12

          Why would the 17yo care? They'll have no assets, and being a repeat car thief means they are the type of kid who has no prospect of a decent income in the next few years (or perhaps ever). If they do get any income they're going to be paying off their fines before they pay off OP. So bankruptcy is not much of a hook to put them on.

          Realistically there is no way you can get blood out of a stone - what that kid DESERVES has nothing to do with OP's finances. Sorry OP, the financial loss is all yours.

          • kaleidoscope on 27/04/2023 - 07:57
            +9

            @derrida derider:

            the financial loss is all yours.

            so much for being a law abiding citizen’s in this country.

            • entropysbane on 27/04/2023 - 09:21

              @kaleidoscope: In these situations it seems the victim has back seat to the rehabilitation opportunity for the juvenile perpetrator.

      • JafferMoney on 26/04/2023 - 14:22
        +2

        I had a lawyer try to charge me for every 6 minute increment and for printing paper…they are just so out of touch. Should just charge a few hundred to begin with and not charge 'plus this, plus that, plus this & that'…such a turn off.

        • bobbified on 26/04/2023 - 14:40
          +4

          Should just charge a few hundred to begin with

          That's what they do… and then they still do all that 'plus this, plus that, plus this & that' bs on top of it.

        • ihbh on 26/04/2023 - 16:39
          -2

          Should just charge a few hundred to begin with

          That covers the first half hour or so of their time. Do you want them to stop at that or do more work for you?

        • Deridas on 26/04/2023 - 22:16

          Wait till you see how my plumber charges me…

        • nomadspartan on 27/04/2023 - 10:22

          It's because they're required to itemise the legal costs for their client.

        • whyisave on 28/04/2023 - 02:49
          -1

          Justice in litigious societies are expensive.

          The legal industry will be ready to be disrupted by ChatGPT type AI,
          ie. like an AirTasker / Uber type service, where the lawyers will need to bid for your case.

      • nikey2k27 on 28/04/2023 - 13:32

        Move mate suing kid won't get you any money just a big Bill. Feel for Townsville here I had few mate cars stolen other one been hit by them kid driving

      • Sinnerator on 26/04/2023 - 07:56
        +30

        Sure, spend $1000 a year on comp ins for a car worth $5k.
        On old shitboxes 3rd party fire theft is probably the most sane option.
        UNLESS you are someone who gets rear ended by stolen vehicles being chased by police more often than every 4 years.

        • boomramada on 26/04/2023 - 08:39
          +6

          Unless OPs mum is under 21 or had many accidents, comprehensive insurance doesn't cost $$$. Cost around $600 for my $5k car.
          Its a simple math's, if car is reliable and only car that you have. $5k > $600, Unless you good at gambling, then I would allocate $600 savings every year till you hit the jackpot.

          • bhubb18 on 26/04/2023 - 09:21

            @boomramada: Plus the cost of making a claim - not sure if this would get refunded in this case?

            IMO at ~5k its a 50/50 of if its worth it. Above $5k full comp is normally worth the cost of it though.

            • boomramada on 26/04/2023 - 09:41

              @bhubb18: Well if my car hit by a truck tomorrow, I'm still in front, (maybe for next five years). $5k - ($700) excess, even it come down to $4k.
              Plus that $600 inc windscreen + road side assistance.

              • bhubb18 on 26/04/2023 - 09:43

                @boomramada: I've yet to claim over 10 years, so ya win some ya lose some. My wife has had to claim a few times.

                • boomramada on 26/04/2023 - 10:04
                  +3

                  @bhubb18: One of my mate, international student, drove a uninsuranced car for 6 years and went back home. Is that a real bargain or lottery winner ? lol
                  His excuse, he is a good driver and registration is enough.
                  But in theory, insurance company/house wins, hence they in business.

                  • derrida derider on 26/04/2023 - 17:35
                    +2

                    @boomramada: That's different - if the OS student runs up the back of a new Mercedes he can just hop on the next flight home. Those of us who cannot afford to be bankrupted need TPP. We can't count on winning the lottery.

          • cloudy on 26/04/2023 - 10:08
            +3

            @boomramada: What insurer are you with? My 5k car, 2006 Honda jazz, costs almost $900 and does t include windscreen or road side assist.

            And no I’m not under 21, or even close.

            I think realistically the chance of car write off in the next 5 years is very slim, and certainly worth the gamble of not buying comprehensive insurance if one is inclined for a punt.

            • boomramada on 26/04/2023 - 10:16
              +2

              @cloudy: Last month AAMI and WW both quoted under $700 for Lancer, market value $5k inc windscreen + road side assistance, I went with WW as for 10% monthly rewards. Location matters too, SA, was even cheaper in ACT, so is the suburb. Third party was around $350 exc windscreen + road side assistance, no brainer.

            • gromit on 26/04/2023 - 15:16
              +1

              @cloudy: I find these sort of numbers confusing, where are you getting insurance from at that price and what high risk factors do you have. I just renewed my wifes 2016 mini paceman insurance for $670 (and that wasn't the cheapest but was only slightly above others so stayed with them), still has around a $25k value.

              • greatlamp on 26/04/2023 - 22:08

                @gromit: Insurance isn't linearly priced based on the value of the vehicle. Remember the price to repair a car is always the same, it isn't cheaper to repair a 2009 car, it just has a lower threshold before it is a write off.

                • gromit on 26/04/2023 - 23:02

                  @greatlamp: True but value of the car and risks are major factors. To be paying so much implies large risks as any significant damage they would just write it off.

              • cloudy on 27/04/2023 - 03:10

                @gromit: I got a screen shot of my quote from bingle. I’m not sure why high risk factor category I am in, but I’ve not had a claim in over 10 years now and hardly drive the tbh. To put in context I don’t even need to fill up a full tank once a month, on average I put in 30-35L in the tank a month.

                Hence why I find insurance not worthwhile.

                • gromit on 27/04/2023 - 13:00

                  @cloudy: you must have some serious risks where you live or modifications or something to flag you. I just did a quick quote for 2006 Honda Jazz for me on budget direct. $470 for comprehensive.

            • Protractor on 28/04/2023 - 13:46

              @cloudy: You must be with Youi.

        • Crow K on 26/04/2023 - 08:56

          So you're saying most people will put more into paying insurance than they will get in cashing out of insurance, and it really only comes in handy in freak/accident occurences?

        • jv on 26/04/2023 - 09:18
          -2

          Sure, spend $1000 a year on comp

          Mine is around $300-$400.

          You need to improve your driving record.

          • RolandWaites on 26/04/2023 - 12:11
            +6

            @jv: Who are you with? In Melbourne everywhere I checked for a 11-year-old car worth $9k-10k, a driver of 10 years with a spotless record, they all seemed to want around the $1500p/a mark for comprehensive.

            • jv on 26/04/2023 - 12:50
              -1

              @RolandWaites:

              they all seemed to want around the $1500p/a mark for comprehensive.

              you're getting ripped off then, unless in your case there are other risk factors

        • jv on 26/04/2023 - 09:19
          -2

          On old shitboxes 3rd party fire theft is probably the most sane option.

          until something like this happens or you.

        • jorf on 26/04/2023 - 09:43
          +9

          That's a risk you take then isn't it? If your $5k car isn't worth the insurance cost, then you need to be prepared for the possibility that you're going to lose its entire value at some point.

          • cloudy on 27/04/2023 - 03:18

            @jorf: Yea, you won’t see me complain if something happens and I write off my car, over the years I’ve already saved the whole value of mg car. My biggest is damage I may do any other property, but this makes me a better and considerate driver. I think about risks beyond what most people consider.

            One day my day will come, and I’ll need to cough up I’m sure.

        • AngoraFish on 26/04/2023 - 10:17
          +2

          My 1999 Camry (worth $5k, generously) has full comprehensive insurance through Everyday Insurance (Woolworths) for $454.85, total. It cost $140 more than the third party quote.

        • md333 on 26/04/2023 - 12:30

          I had comprehensive on a $3,000 car recently. Only cost about $50 more than third party only.
          Helps that the $1500 excess was almost as much as the car. Turned out useful as I damaged someone else's car (so had to pay the excess anyway), so still got $3,000 more than I would have with TPO.

          • Harold Halfprice on 28/04/2023 - 00:01

            @md333: $1500 excess on a $3000 car??? That's crazy

            How much was the premium?

            • md333 on 28/04/2023 - 02:14

              @Harold Halfprice: It was mainly for the third party, so value of my car is irrelevant.
              Just looked it up and it was actually $1100 excess.
              Premium $250 per year.
              (helps to be at least middle aged)

              • resisting the urge on 28/04/2023 - 13:04

                @md333: Nice n cheap.

                Still TPFT can be better.

                If I were the OP, I'd buy another one of the same vehicles, swap over any bits that were better from the old one, keep any spares that might be needed. Then sell everything that won't get used, and scrap the shell. This way; no claim costs, and can end up with a better car, or in profit, or both.

                Comprehensive insurance would just write the car off at the lowest claimable value, and force you to pay the excess anyhow.

                TPFT is generally better value- and gives you the options to do this, and/or fix, and/or collect from the party at fault. Plus it is cheaper to buy in the first place

      • bargaino on 26/04/2023 - 11:17
        +4

        Thanks. It's good to know.

        • AustriaBargain on 26/04/2023 - 15:58
          -3

          It is good to know, yeah.

          • resisting the urge on 28/04/2023 - 12:53

            @AustriaBargain: If only more knew the basics, they'd make life for others better

            But lmao why bother, more instant grat'f'c'n descendin' into chaos w wods left o da rest of humanity do'n 24x7 community and mental health support on 4chan, fb and tiktok, od'in on AI pr0n, in between 3-day non-stop descents into online gamez 'n sh1t like dat, breh

      • whatwasherproblem on 26/04/2023 - 17:38
        +2

        Updooted because I genuinely miss grammar Nahtzees and its it's something that the younger generation with their "bussin' frfr" and "sus no cap" will never be able to experience.

  • Guybrush57 on 26/04/2023 - 01:23
    +17

    This is a good example to always get comprehensive insurance if you care about your car in the slightest.

    Your insurer would do all of the background work and chasing for you. That peace of mind is worth the price of admission.

    • derrida derider on 26/04/2023 - 17:42

      Yes. One of the benefits of getting comprehensive rather than TPP for an old car is that the insurance company, rather than you, will do all the running around and dealing with the spithead who ran into you. How much a year that is worth to you is personal.

    • helpme on 27/04/2023 - 08:19

      Really depends, comp on my P's was 2k+ (now closer to 1k), third party is $500. 6 years on and I've saved enough to make it worth it.

    • entropysbane on 27/04/2023 - 09:32
      +1

      That is definitely a benefit of comprehensive.
      My brother had a similar example where an uninsured, unregistered and unlicensed feral turned right right in front of him in Lismore. She went to court of course, got a slap on the wrist etc. Lucky for him he had comprehensive and his insurer covered him, but his beloved 1977 Celica GT was written off.
      I guess once the car gets to low value, the equation is the trade off between paying the premium every year, and self insuring.
      In the end the insurance company is ‘gambling’ that it will not have to pay out. In most cases of lower value cars the insurer is buying peace of mind and convenience, but over time will pay more than the car is worth.
      I prefer to pay the insurance, and look on it as a service, but I can understand people wanting to self insure too.

      What I don’t have much sympathy for is those that decide to self insure and then complain when the bill comes.

    • AustriaBargain on 28/04/2023 - 13:00

      If your car is only worth 7k and you have 7k in the bank ready to buy another one, should you still get comprehensive insurance for your own car?

  • jv on 26/04/2023 - 01:43
    -5

    we don't have comprehensive insurance since the car is an older model.

    Who told you older vehicles can't have comprehensive insurance?

    • nse on 26/04/2023 - 11:33
      +6

      Where did they say they can't insure it?

      • jv on 26/04/2023 - 11:52
        -3

        the word 'since'

        • xsacha on 27/04/2023 - 04:36

          Likely they didn't consider it worth it since the value was so low.
          Now they are worried about the value being so high.

        • 42 on 27/04/2023 - 07:42
          +1

          we don't have comprehensive

          vs can't

  • AngoraFish on 26/04/2023 - 02:03
    +59

    What state do you live in? Who is your third party insurer?

    Also, my 1999 Camry has comprehensive insurance, cost me an extra $70 or so on top of third party insurance, so I'm pretty sure you've been given bad advice about that.

    There's no point pursuing legal action as the person you'd be suing is 17 years old with (inevitably) no assets. The best you'll get out of it is a few bucks a week deduced against their future income, which won't even cover your legal costs. Also, you'll have to go back to court (at your cost) to enforce the payment plan if they stop paying at any time, assuming they start paying in the first place, which they probably won't.

    The "other driver" wasn't fully covered by Allianz Insurance, the other driver was a 17 year old car thief.

    You might be "quite shocked" that Allianz doesn't cover damage to you caused by a thief who stole someone's property, however Allianz covers damage caused to the person who bought and paid for that insurance, not you, who have paid Allianz nothing. Would you expect the company providing your home and contents insurance to reimburse other households the cost of burglaries committed with the assistance of a crow bar stolen from your garden shed?

    When you fail to take out comprehensive insurance you are effectively making a decision to self-insure. Which is to say, you're willing to risk writing off the value of your car to save on your annual premiums. In this case, you've taken a punt and lost. Time to write the expense off to experience and move on with your life.

    • knasty on 26/04/2023 - 11:57
      +5

      An excellent post…

      • MrFrugalSpend on 26/04/2023 - 20:32
        +1

        Yes good comment - I particularly liked the crow bar analogy and was initially quite confused by the 'other driver' part, so glad this was commented.

    • ssfps on 27/04/2023 - 00:20
      +3

      Who are you with that offers comprehensive for an extra $70?

      My similarly old jalopy is worth about $3k. To insure third-party costs ~$300 a year, to insure comprehensive costs ~$600, give or take a bit depending on the company.
      Needless to say i don't bother with comprehensive since it would cost 10% of the car's value per year extra.
      I have a good record and been driving for a long time (>15 years) so presumably it's not that i'm being penalised in some way.

      • AngoraFish on 27/04/2023 - 02:13

        Turns out I misremembered, 2am in the morning and all. My latest full comprehensive insurance (Feb 23) was through Everyday Insurance (Woolworths) for $454.85 with a $600 excess, an agreed value of $3300 and unlimited kilometres. The cost was $140 more than their third party quote. Still not too bad, me thinks.

        Personally, I don't think that 10% of a car's value minus the excess is a poor deal. You'd have to self insure for 10 years before you broke even. In the last 10 years, across the cars I have owned in that time I've been backed into in shopping centre carparks twice, and twice been hit with hail damage. One car was also written off by a family member driving too close to a rural culvert.

        Your value may vary, however, depending on how often you use the car and how far you drive it. I'd drive at least 600km most weeks.

  • tim_geo on 26/04/2023 - 02:06
    +24

    Might be worthwhile looking into whether you have coverage against uninsured drivers. Also whether if there is an excess payable.

    As example:
    https://www.aami.com.au/car-insurance/third-party-property.h…
    "Damage by uninsured drivers
    When your car is damaged by a collision with another vehicle driven by an uninsured driver, we cover damage to your car (up to the amount of $5,000), but only if, the other driver was entirely at fault and you can give us the name and address of the person at fault and the registration number of the at fault vehicle.​"

    • bathuu on 26/04/2023 - 07:07
      +4

      If you have at least third party insurance there is a chance you can chase up to $5k from your insurance company.

    • JumperC on 27/04/2023 - 18:38
      +3

      1000x this. People saying you need comprehensive (especially the same repeat offenders who are corrected every time this comes up) clearly don’t learn.

      Yes it’s easier to have comprehensive, but the reason comprehensive isn’t that much more on older cars (with older good history drivers) is exactly this. Any decent Third Party policy will cover you up to $5k if not at fault and you can identify the at fault party, same as comprehensive.

      It really shouldn’t be shocking that the stolen cars insurers don’t cover the damage done to other cars. /o\

      • CMH on 28/04/2023 - 03:02
        -2

        Only if uninsured. If they are insured you still need to jump through the hoops yourself

        • JumperC on 28/04/2023 - 10:33

          If they’re insured their insurance covers it, yours just jumps through the hoops so they do. The ‘uninsured driver’ clause isn’t to get them out of the hoop jumping but the payment. The hoops aren’t all that hard to jump through anyway, you basically send them a letter of demand, their insurance handles it.

  • tomleonhart on 26/04/2023 - 04:22
    +19

    in an episode of buy Third party only insurance and wonder why it doesn't cover your own car.

  • sharkyoz on 26/04/2023 - 05:41
    +11

    bikies

    • 91rs on 26/04/2023 - 10:59
      +7

      Kidneys of a 17yo should be worth more than the replacement to your older vehicle.
      I'd suggest having them harvest and sell off the rest of the viable parts to cover the bikies fee's as well.

      • WhyAmICommenting on 26/04/2023 - 13:18

        Is that you, Winnie the Xi?

      • derrida derider on 26/04/2023 - 17:50
        +8

        Yep, part the kid out. Probably worth more for parts than yuor wrecked car.

        • ssfps on 27/04/2023 - 00:22

          Yep, part the kid out.

          Thanks for the LOL.

    • TightLikeThisx on 27/04/2023 - 08:07

      I'm surprised I had to scroll so far down for this. It's most likely the only way that OP can get their money back in this situation.

      • Kangal on 27/04/2023 - 21:07

        Can the OP attempt to sue the police?
        At least they have deep coffers… and by that I mean the tax revenue :(

        • resisting the urge on 28/04/2023 - 12:57

          Incidents occur due to police activity all the time.

          Pretty sure no-one collects enough evidence at the scene to prevent the state lawyers from avoiding any onus being laid on the state

  • kerfuffle on 26/04/2023 - 06:38
    +23

    My old car was a 2011 model and had comprehensive insurance.

    Guess you could use the money you saved by not having comprehensive towards repairs for the car 🤷🏻‍♀️

  • DarkOz on 26/04/2023 - 07:49
    +19

    Unfortunately, we don't have comprehensive insurance since the car is an older model.

    You took the gamble and lost.

    We are considering legal action

    Legal action is another gamble. Probably more expensive than the comprehensive insurance you saved in the first place. Even if you win, the 17-year-old repeat offender would be too broke to pay you anyway.

    • mrvaluepack on 26/04/2023 - 11:20
      +2

      Yup, insurance is gambling.

  • barge-in hunter on 26/04/2023 - 07:55
    +3

    Sorry to hear you’ve been dealt this situation; it’s one of the worst edge cases. Honestly, what are the chances?

    • jorf on 26/04/2023 - 09:45
      +4

      More than zero. Which is why you either have insurance, or accept the risk of up to a total loss.

      • barge-in hunter on 26/04/2023 - 09:53
        +4

        Yes. More than zero. The risk has to be accepted.

        Every choice we make is based on chance/risk. In this case those chances were very low, hence my condolences.

  • mbck on 26/04/2023 - 07:58
    +18

    Shocking that criminals can get away just because of the way the system is set up.

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