Declined (Again!) This Time by Westpac, for No Real Reason

zan5hin on 27/12/2022 - 09:22
Last edited 27/12/2022 - 10:30

So I have been in the credit card churn game for a while, to save up mainly Krisflyer miles.

My credit score is 830 (not 802, corrected).

Last month I got declined for Citibank prestige, which I just chalked down to citibank being notorious for that.

But now I just applied for Westpac Altitude Platinum with 100k signup bonus. $3k spend with $6k limit and was declined again.

What am I doing wrong?

My previous Westpac Altitude was closed Nov 2021, so over 12 months.

I've also in the past 3 years applied, hit the bonus and closed accounts with AMEX, St George, HSBC, Suncorp all Explorer/Platinum with $6k limits.

I earn $100k with $22k in savings. My living expenses are $1202 rent per month, and $1055 general living expenses with $190 "other" monthly expenses. All these numbers seem to fine?

What can I tweak to increase my chance of success? I really hate having my credit score pinged with declines.

Financial

Related Stores

Westpac
Westpac

Comments

  • MS Paint on 27/12/2022 - 09:32
    +84

    Too much churning is raising red flags in their new assessment algorithm.

    • Mokr on 27/12/2022 - 09:48
      +10

      Accountants versus marketers

      Marketers wanted to hit sales targets

      Accountants be like

      • surg3on on 29/12/2022 - 13:30

        Marketers want to hit sales targets, profits be damned. Accountants want those sales to hang around after the promotional period.

    • lalala1111 on 30/12/2022 - 22:16

      I've shut my Citibank CC within 6 weeks of opening it after 1 round of statements which covered the required spend due to it being xmas and bought my wedding dress, then applied for Westpac Qantas CC 3 weeks after.

      Just got approved yesterday. I was worried they're about churning (i've closed 3 this year and citibank was the fastest ever)

      might not be just that

  • jjjaar on 27/12/2022 - 09:39
    +30

    What am I doing wrong?

    I have been in the credit card churn game for a while

    While it never used to, it’s starting to matter.

  • Unorthodox on 27/12/2022 - 09:45

    What cards and/or credit loans do you have active? And recent cancellations that may not have been reflected yet?

    Also, one month since your last decline isn't long…

    • zan5hin on 27/12/2022 - 10:29

      I cancelled my Suncorp a few days ago, I said "no" when asked if I had any other cards.

      I have no liabilities, loans or debts.

      • Unorthodox on 27/12/2022 - 10:56
        +12

        No chance it would have reflected the cancelled card.
        I usually wait until the official cancellation letter if they're a dinosaur like ANZ or give a buffer of 10 business days.

        Double trouble with your recent decline and recent cancellation of Suncorp card / not disclosing so either it was automatic or there's no one to review and ask for clarification.

        Given its Xmas, you may not have much luck asking for a manual review

        • TasJacks on 28/12/2022 - 15:16

          Has anyone had luck with manual review of rejected CC applications? Any tips with that?

          Got ANZ FF Black credit card application rejected 2 months ago even though I had the desired salary.

          • Unorthodox on 28/12/2022 - 15:37

            @TasJacks: ANZ I was declined by the auto check and emailed the cc inbox stating that I believe the auto process did not perform a satisfactory review due to X complex items that influence my ability to repay.

            Note: I easily satisfy the reqs. I recall saying that I salary sacrifice X amount per month, have X discretionary income as well through bonuses etc which I can reallocate to repayments if necessary etc etc

            A lot of the application process can be finicky, it's always good to just be clear in how you would meet the requirements - you should never lead with I'm not sure why I got a decline, could you please explain. They don't have to explain why.

          • Autonomic on 28/12/2022 - 18:30

            @TasJacks: Personally no but many commenters here have. If I was ever rejected I would definitely call up.

        • miwahni on 30/12/2022 - 01:14

          This is what I was thinking - recently closed Suncorp card still reflected as being open on equifax report, and not disclosed as a current liability, instant decline for non disclosure. Try going into a branch and seeing if the staff can help you - take evidence of closure of the Suncorp card.

          • 76F on 30/12/2022 - 11:29

            @miwahni: Was just approved for a Westpac card and had closed a 15k NAB card 10 days prior to application. They called as I had not disclosed it and once I sent the cancellation letter, they approved the card.

            • miwahni on 08/01/2023 - 00:55

              @76F: Westpac have upped their game if they actually called you about it.

  • Mokr on 27/12/2022 - 09:47
    +3

    Do a credit check

    • zan5hin on 27/12/2022 - 10:29

      My mistake it's 830 actually

  • elgrande on 27/12/2022 - 10:37
    +3

    Burn the churn
    Burn the churn
    Burn the churn

    (Group chanting)

    • bumpyhead on 29/12/2022 - 21:14
      +1

      Churn the burn
      Churn the burn
      Churn the burn

      (solo)

    • bigbadboogieman on 31/12/2022 - 14:44

      The burn churn
      The burn churn
      The burn churn

      (Chorus)

      • dwillia on 01/01/2023 - 08:54
        +1

        The burn churn

        if I squint this looks like The Bum Chum

  • doweyy on 27/12/2022 - 10:42
    +16

    All banks have differing risk profiles and are generally more strict after the Banking Royal Commission from what I've found. If you get declined once, it's generally best to wait a while before applying again (even more exacerbated now after the RC).

    If I was you, I'd be waiting 6 months at least now after 2 straight declines. It's most likely not something to do with your serviceability, but just rather the system taking the denial and other factors into account (previous churning, if you've held a product with WBC or subsidiaries (you noted St George) etc).

    If you do want to keep churning, I'd probably be looking at not applying for any NAB/Citi white labelled products either as they all share most likely the same data after the NAB takeover.

    Best to be more cautious now and don't churn as often if you want to have successful applications, that's just my 2c.

    • bitesized on 27/12/2022 - 10:48
      +2

      What doweyy said! Biggest reason for your decline is Westpac would have ran a check on your recent credit history, and noted your recent credit app & decline with Citi.

      Be patient and wait a couple months now. I would recommend giving a 3-4 month breather between credit applications (successful or not). If you apply again soon, it won't be a decline due to "churning", but due to banks thinking you are desperate for credit and will assess you negatively.

      • JIMB0 on 27/12/2022 - 14:28
        +3

        I'm sure the credit report only shows the name of the institution and amount. I've never seen it show whether it was declined or not. I guess they could work it out by looking at your current lines of credit, but that can take a while to update.

      • meowsers on 29/12/2022 - 13:06

        They wont see a decline. It's just too many applications for credit in a short time period.

        • nobro25 on 31/12/2022 - 07:22
          +1

          Correct! Everytime they run a credit check it goes on your file saying there's a check. It however doesn't say the outcome of an application whether it's been declined or approved it won't be noted.

  • Shadowsfury on 27/12/2022 - 11:51
    -4

    I also had 2 recent rejections in a row - Citibank like you then Commbank

    For now I'm just going to wait a while and apply under my wife's name for the next one

    • fishing on 28/12/2022 - 09:19
      +23

      This is the reason women need financial literacy to stop partners killing their credit rating and running up debt in their name

      • Shadowsfury on 28/12/2022 - 14:50
        +9

        Very fair concern and didn't expect my post to come across like that. But she understands the why and we are both a beneficiary of my many years churning from before we even met. She's seen how many hundreds of thousands of points I have redeemed and wants to help with replenishing it so we can continue to travel for less.

  • El-Rhi on 27/12/2022 - 13:58
    +18

    This Time by Westpac, for No Real Reason

    Why does every credit card churner feels it’s their entitlement that every application is approved?

    This is the game you play… you win some, you lose some. Move onto the next deal, there’s plenty out there. Want to increase your chances of approval? Get a home loan, keep a credit card open or be an existing customer of the bank you’re applying with.

    really hate having my credit score pinged with declines.

    That’s the first I’ve heard credit reports categorising applications by approved or declined

    • I like freestuff on 30/12/2022 - 09:23
      +4

      I think most people accept that it’s just the “no reason provided” that is annoying.

      Like is there something I’m doing or just too many in a short period or what.

  • Euphemistic on 27/12/2022 - 17:35
    +4

    They can see what you are doing and only want long term customers?

  • Nillionaire on 27/12/2022 - 23:10

    I don't think churning is a niche thing anymore. And it's pretty easy to notice and filter out if they want to.

  • Essem on 28/12/2022 - 08:08
    +4

    Closed cc accounts will remain in your credit file for 2 years after closed. Credit application enquiries remain for 5 years. So every application and account open and closed show in your file and will raise red flags. You need to slow down the churn. Get the cc and bonus points and keep that card for 1-2 years then before the next annual fee apply for a new card.

    • Craze on 28/12/2022 - 21:26

      Most cards will only waive first year A/F (if applicable) so I'd think majority churners would be churning every 12-18 months on average?

      • nigel deborah on 30/12/2022 - 08:28

        If they're serious churners 12-18 months per bank more likely. I've met people with 4+ on the go at once.

  • Ashbargin on 28/12/2022 - 09:16
    -1

    If you gave me those numbers on an application and I was a credit officer I would lean towards this is not a truthful application. Based on your $100k wages and stated expenses you have a surplus of $3,800 per month. But only $22,000 in savings?
    Your monthly living expenses would in the extreme low range and I would imagine well below HEM.

    • fishing on 28/12/2022 - 09:22
      +13

      Surely if you were a credit officer you would also consider people can holiday overseas and spend all their savings before rebuilding them?

    • jalalii on 02/01/2023 - 13:20

      Low savings may mean putting a lot into a home loan voluntarily.

  • DarkOz on 28/12/2022 - 10:36
    +8

    You credit history is lit with red flags and now you are just adding more big red flags with every declination.

  • qwerty-4321 on 28/12/2022 - 10:53
    +3

    Well I got down-voted for warning people against churning through cards.

    Churning is a stupid idea. Why people are willing to tarnish their one-and-only credit history for a couple thousand bucks at a time is beyond me.

    And now one of the commenters in this post is suggesting they'll start churning in their wife's name…

    And for anyone who doesn't believe me when I say churning is a bad idea, look at this.

    • El-Rhi on 28/12/2022 - 13:04

      What about churning mortgages?

      • od810 on 28/12/2022 - 21:36

        Generally having a credit enquiry for a mortgage will have positive impact on your credit rating.

        Credit ratings in australia is not as important as the US. My first home loan when i didnt know crap about credit rating was approved even though i had bad credit (unpaid bill when i went overseas).

        I cc and mortgage churned the last few years (not as extreme as OP), my credit ratings are excellent with Experian and Equifax and mediocre with Illion. But my ratings improve whenever i refinance

    • ldt on 28/12/2022 - 19:17
      +6

      I’m a CC churner and my credit rating just goes up and up and up. I’m now not far off as higher rating as you can get now.

    • mahdoo on 29/12/2022 - 09:52
      +4

      Been churning through 3-4 credit cards every year for the past 5 years and just got pre-approval for a mortgage no problem with a credit score in the 600's.

      What exactly is your perceived risk here?

      • qwerty-4321 on 29/12/2022 - 12:06
        -1

        Well congratulations on your mortgage approval but 600 is not a good score.

        I'm not highlighting any risk, I'm trying to dispel the suggestion that there is no impact to your credit score by churning through cards. The screenshot I shared is from a breakdown of my Equifax credit score, and it shows that my credit rating dropped because I made too many credit card applications last year.

        • mahdoo on 29/12/2022 - 12:15
          +4

          600 is not an amazing score - but the point I'm making, is that it doesn't matter.

          If you can get mortgage preapproval when you're in the 600's - why worry about keeping your score in the 800's? Hence why I'm asking about the perceived risk.

          I am but one person, I can't guarantee my experience will be the same as others - but staying away from high risk services (buy now, pay later services like lattitudepay, afterpay etc) and ensuring you make smart financial decisions (always paying off full owing balance, never letting interest accumulate) and keeping ontop of your bills to ensure nothing gets sent to collections seems to be what matters.

          It's not your score that matters here, it's whether the banks see your history as high risk or not. Changing out your credit cards, but never missing a payment isn't seen as risky in my experience.

        • mahdoo on 29/12/2022 - 12:21

          But yes - you're correct, churning cards does affect your credit score. Anyone that thinks otherwise, shoudn't be applying for credit cards.

          I'm 100% for education on that front. No one should be making any financial decisions without putting in the time to understand the decision they're making.

          I just don't really see the value in a high credit score in Australia.

          Let me make it clear - no one should be making any financial decisions based on my post. I'm just speaking about my experience here.

          Financial decisions require time commitment to make an informed decision. If anyone wants to make a decision solely based on my post, they shouldn't be making any financial decisions at all. People should be taking my post as a data point, and researching themselves.

        • R-Man on 30/12/2022 - 13:02
          +1

          I get what you're saying about applications being added to your credit file, but a reminder that credit scores aren't real.

          they're calculated by these commercial companies based on formulas they change as they please. The scores are really only a means to show you lending products to sell to you, which generate a commission for them.

          No bank or lender is required to refer to these scores (can anyone tell me about a bank or lender who said "sorry your CreditSavvy™ Score didn't meet our criteria"?)

          • El-Rhi on 30/12/2022 - 13:30
            +1

            @R-Man: CreditSavvy is essentially Experian. And yes, some banks do use the bureau score as a direct cut-off to decline an application, e.g. if below x then you are automatically declined

          • miwahni on 08/01/2023 - 00:59

            @R-Man: Yep. At least three - four apps per day come across my desk that were auto rejected based on a score below 500.

  • 2esc on 28/12/2022 - 11:37

    Ive had 1 credit card my entire life

    • Ciderfizz44 on 29/12/2022 - 15:26
      +8

      Weird flex but okay.

      • Flirtle on 29/12/2022 - 17:22
        +1

        Doesn't count if it's got 0 available balance

  • Jaystea on 28/12/2022 - 11:48
    +5

    You were declined by citibank prestige because you don’t earn anywhere close enough to actually be approved for a prestige card. You’re more suitable for Citibank premier with those numbers. However, with those expenses, and those savings, it doesn’t exactly yell financially reliable. Credit score is only one factor so I wouldn’t base it off that. I’d suggest you were probably on the cusp of being rejected for those other credit card claims, and the multiple applications over a short period of time has pushed you into the rejection pile. I play the churn and burn game too and average ~3cc a year so understand it’s not always about credit score (mine is 600 I believe and I’ve never had cc debt ever).

    I find Amex to be the most lenient so far. Citibank has eased up since being acquired by NAB. YMMV.

    • hawkeye93 on 15/01/2023 - 20:58
      +1

      I earn 65k pa and still got approved for that Citi Prestige automatically.

  • BlueberryOrangeJuice on 28/12/2022 - 13:08

    Not sure how long you’ve been working / earning 100k, but that 20k savings probably isn’t doing you any favours. Save up a bigger cash reserve and see if that helps :)

  • Mrgreenz on 28/12/2022 - 13:12
    +12

    I wouldn't give you a credit card.

  • fullmetal on 28/12/2022 - 13:28

    How many cards are you holding? What is your credit line?
    My speculation is that the banks are lowering credit line because of high interest.

  • Willy Beamish on 28/12/2022 - 13:33
    +4

    when you say 22k in savings do you mean you have 22k in savings or that you save 22k per year out of your total, either way for 100k/year you are saving not much at all…

    • BlueberryOrangeJuice on 28/12/2022 - 15:17

      My guess is total of 22k as it’s a question asked around how much savings you have :)

  • mirz on 28/12/2022 - 14:20

    Do not apply for a credit unless you really need it.

    All these marketing scams will destroy your credit history. All unsecured loans are red flags for your credit file.

  • TasJacks on 28/12/2022 - 15:17
    +1

    Has anyone had luck with manual review of rejected CC applications?

    ANZ FF Black application rejected 2 months ago even though I had the desired salary and have upcoming loan enquiries (in 3 months). Worried that would affect it.

    • JIMB0 on 28/12/2022 - 21:25

      I got my first decline last year with HSBC. I think the reason was that when doing the application I realised they still had my old address on file for my everyday account. I updated it before proceeding which must of thrown up a red flag in their risk analysis. Not wanting to waste a credit enquiry on my file I got a manual review done which resulted in the card being issued.

  • Save Medicare on 28/12/2022 - 16:10
    +1

    I got declined by St George earlier this year for 6k limit / 150k salary after penalties/OT (110k base) , no other cards for 4 months 🤷

    • furakoph on 28/12/2022 - 17:36

      How many other credit cards and mortgages did you have? Probably servicability if you had debt

      • Save Medicare on 28/12/2022 - 17:39
        +3

        Had only one credit card at a time for the last 4 years, going through about 1-2 a year for points. No mortgage (renting), own car, HECS fully paid off this year before indexation. Probably 20k cash savings at the time because dropped 45k on HECS

        They guy on the phone at the bank essentially told me that algorithm is capricious and unknowable

        • Untalentedllama on 15/01/2023 - 14:32

          Had a very similar issue, St George guy on the phone actually helped me put in a complaint about the all knowing "algorithm" (since I wanted feedback about why I was declined and they said they don't know, it's all up to the algorithm)

  • vshek on 28/12/2022 - 18:44

    Side Q; How can I check my credit score in Australia? I recently moved back hare after spending 5 years in the US and cant remember if credit score was a thing 5 years ago here.

    • El-Rhi on 28/12/2022 - 20:53
      +4

      Equifax - https://www.getcreditscore.com.au/

      Experian - https://www.creditsavvy.com.au/

      Illion - https://www.creditsimple.com.au/

      All will have slightly different scales, e.g. a 700 does not mean the same thing

      • Gaz1 on 29/12/2022 - 16:11

        Thanks for the list.
        Are these all free?
        Which one is the safest to use (as far as what they ask you & how they might use the data you have to enter, etc)?

        • mahdoo on 29/12/2022 - 17:29
          +1

          If you're worried about that, go direct. What El-Rhi posted are credit monitoring services that use data from Illion,Equifax and Experian. If you don't want credit monitoring (Emails to let you know when your credit has changed) You can just request your reports directly from them for free as well.

          If asking directly - you're not giving anyone additional information, you're providing information they already have, in order to identify yourself so they can give you the rest of your information.

          Equifax - https://www.equifax.com.au/personal/products/equifax-credit-…

          Experian - https://www.experian.com.au/consumer/order-credit-report

          Illion - https://www.creditcheck.illion.com.au/auth/login/signup

          • Gaz1 on 29/12/2022 - 17:41

            @mahdoo: Perfect - thanks!

          • El-Rhi on 30/12/2022 - 13:33

            @mahdoo: If you go direct to the bureau, they don’t necessarily disclose your score. They just categorise as average, good, excellent etc.

            If you want the actual score then it’s best to sign up with their affiliated monitoring services.

            • mahdoo on 30/12/2022 - 14:26

              @El-Rhi: I use creditsimple - but have requested my credit from the three directly before, got full report and score. Equifax gave a ranged score, but the other two gave exact scores.

  • doctordv8 on 28/12/2022 - 19:03

    "Declined (Again!) This Time by Westpac, for No Real Reason"

    If you do not know the reason, how can you say "…..No Real Reason"?

    Perhaps you could call…ask them why.
    If it is their mistake, you should get your Approval - a Win.
    If it is your mistake, you can work on resolving the issue/s.

    • illusion99 on 29/12/2022 - 08:44
      +10

      Banks generally don't tell you why they declined

      • jaimex2 on 31/12/2022 - 13:15
        +4

        Computer says no.

    • doctordv8 on 01/01/2023 - 08:47
      -1

      Will the Neg voter state why exactly they did so?

  • mousie on 28/12/2022 - 19:54

    Unsecured lending is tightening.

    Big 4 banks are becoming arrogant lending wise imo, but looking to focus into consumer savings products that will then lend into capital and Corp finance.

    The lending decisions are largely scripted based off Equifax scores and risk appetite.

    As others have said min 6 months now with no further apps.

  • footyboy on 28/12/2022 - 21:38
    +2

    Broker here - we've seen more declines recently for home loan churners too.

    Banks are catching on!

    Aidan.

    • Zorlin on 28/12/2022 - 22:25
      +10

      Why do you sign your comments?

      Notmyrealname

      • footyboy on 30/12/2022 - 07:19
        +3

        LOL, as I stand by my comments and not afraid to hide in the shadows 😄

        Aidan.

        • Zorlin on 30/12/2022 - 16:23
          +2

          your username is attached to each comment you make, so it's just weird and breaks forum etiquette

          lol

          • idonotknowwhy on 30/12/2022 - 19:58

            @Zorlin: some old people like to do this, I think it's charming :)

            Zorlin.

          • casho on 31/12/2022 - 22:25

            @Zorlin: Nice to meet you lol

        • drfuzzy on 01/01/2023 - 16:03
          +1

          I'm looking at a list of 12,300 people named Aidan in Australia
          Please confirm which one you are with your middle name, surname, and date of birth.
          It's very important as I'd hate you to be in the shadows.

          • footyboy on 15/01/2023 - 17:19

            @drfuzzy: @drfuzzy most of that is available via my link.

            Aidan.

    • El-Rhi on 29/12/2022 - 05:44
      +1

      Which banks?

  • Youi2018 on 28/12/2022 - 21:50

    Exactly the same thing happened to me around April this year . I applied for 2 - 3 cards and got rejected for no apparent reason . I have been churning CCs for around 5 years . Just applied for two in December and got approved for both. So i would say just give the churning a break for around 6 months

    • Sharp on 28/12/2022 - 23:26

      Do you apply for multiple cards at the same time? Is that because you think they don’t see other applications made simultaneously?

      • Youi2018 on 29/12/2022 - 19:01

        Sorry i didn't mean at the same time . I applied for 2 in december about 3 weeks apart and got approved for both after being rejected for multiple in april this year

        • SKiZO on 12/01/2023 - 11:28

          Curious as to whether you applied at the same banks you were declined with earlier in the year and got approved this time?
          I had a decline at ANZ for no reason a year ago but want to re-apply with them this year.

  • Cluster on 28/12/2022 - 23:00
    +2

    It takes a while for old closed credit accounts to disappear from your record. You are closing them, right?

    Plus credit scores mean nothing if the new credit provider sees you're opening a lot of new credit accounts. All credit providers have their own set of criteria for giving credit. If they see someone is opening a lot of new cards, they really do appear to be a bad credit problem.

    Solution? Stop applying for new cards for 2 years.

    • El-Rhi on 29/12/2022 - 05:47

      If they see someone is opening a lot of new cards, they really do appear to be a bad credit problem.

      This is not true. Banks will look at the repayment history. If you’re not making the payments on time then that’s an issue, otherwise opening a lot of new cards means nothing

      • MrMarket on 29/12/2022 - 08:36

        Everything is taken into account not just repayment
        Open and closing a lot of accounts in a short period of time do raise a flag.
        Why would a normal person do this?

        • El-Rhi on 29/12/2022 - 08:41

          $$$

          That’s why I do it anyway

      • Cluster on 29/12/2022 - 10:14
        +1

        Someone opening one credit card after another is either:

        1. Milking the system for free points / bonuses

        2. Keeps transferring balances at 0%. Why are they doing this? Possibly to save on interest or they're desperately in debt and cannot pay it off.

        zan5hin has probably been flagged as a concerning customer, and the more they apply for credit cards the worse it gets. Eventually they'll actually need some sort of new credit account and everyone will say no.

        My advice is to stop and wait at least a couple of years.

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join