Declined (Again!) This Time by Westpac, for No Real Reason

zan5hin on 27/12/2022 - 09:22
Last edited 27/12/2022 - 10:30

So I have been in the credit card churn game for a while, to save up mainly Krisflyer miles.

My credit score is 830 (not 802, corrected).

Last month I got declined for Citibank prestige, which I just chalked down to citibank being notorious for that.

But now I just applied for Westpac Altitude Platinum with 100k signup bonus. $3k spend with $6k limit and was declined again.

What am I doing wrong?

My previous Westpac Altitude was closed Nov 2021, so over 12 months.

I've also in the past 3 years applied, hit the bonus and closed accounts with AMEX, St George, HSBC, Suncorp all Explorer/Platinum with $6k limits.

I earn $100k with $22k in savings. My living expenses are $1202 rent per month, and $1055 general living expenses with $190 "other" monthly expenses. All these numbers seem to fine?

What can I tweak to increase my chance of success? I really hate having my credit score pinged with declines.

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Comments

  • Ultramup on 29/12/2022 - 01:15

    Understating your expenses to be too far fron the HEM values is a red flag - from the banks perspective in the best case the bank is unlikely to make that much money from that applicant (with low expenses) and in the worst case the applicant is lying on the application.

  • eklipsils on 29/12/2022 - 06:42
    +2

    Getting rejected for a cc feels worse than getting rejected when asking someone for their number lol

    • Herbs on 30/12/2022 - 13:10
      +1

      That's cause your relationship with the bank would have lasted longer than 5 minutes ;)

    • nickj on 30/12/2022 - 15:31

      Probably because:
      A) there's usually no proof you got rejected when asking someone for their number, whereas the enquiry is listed on your credit report for years.
      B) giving out a phone number is very subjective, whereas credit card applications are supposed to be logical and mathematical and objective and based on risk; but when you objectively have enough income pay and enough liquid assets to pay the amount you are potentially borrowing (many many times over) and have never defaulted on anything in your life, it feels like you have been treated unfairly.

  • MrMarket on 29/12/2022 - 08:32
    +2

    You need 150k salary for Citi prestige
    Plus cc churning stayed on your profile for a while and with everything is algorithm and automates, if banks want a simple profile filter on cc churner then it wouldn’t be too hard with an automatic decline setup

  • lunartemis on 29/12/2022 - 08:51

    Are you an Optus or Medibank customer who got details stolen? Maybe your details got flagged because of it

    • idonotknowwhy on 30/12/2022 - 19:59

      If they are, they can get free equifax alerts for 1 year :)

  • momptdeals on 29/12/2022 - 09:49

    My figures are almost identical to OPs (but with slightly higher savings) and I got insta approved for the Citi prestige.

    Only difference is I always tend to over estimate my expenses. Credit providers love it when you spend more (but still within your ability to repay). I always workout my income after tax per month, subtract about $500 for monthly savings and claim the rest for expenses. (Even if my expenses are much lower)

    E.g. I would utilize a 5000 monthly income (after tax) to look like this in my application

    1200 rent
    2800 monthly expenses
    500 additional expenses
    (500 excess for "savings")

    • gimme on 29/12/2022 - 10:08

      I'm not sure that theory is correct as I do the oposite (underestimate expenses) and always get approved. Of course 100% clean repayment record from the start of time

      • momptdeals on 29/12/2022 - 10:18

        Yeh milage may vary. I've always overestimated mine and have only been rejected once in 4 years. I got the Citi prestige insta approved 2 months ago with a ~100k income.

        Who knows what the hard requirements are. Their approval algorithm is actually an ape throwing shit at a wall of applicants and seeing what sticks?

        • us3rnam3tak3n on 29/12/2022 - 21:21

          Weird. I was going to tell OP that google tells me the minimum required income is 150k but maybe the rejection is just a response to the aggressive churning.

  • gimme on 29/12/2022 - 10:03
    +1

    Maybe someone already mentioned but you probably shot yourself in the foot. Citi easy decline because you don't meet salary threshold. Wpac decline may maybe because of existing recent decline on your record. Next time check the criteria more carefully

  • yamahamoto on 29/12/2022 - 10:27

    Out of the 3 credit report agency I found that equifax has the most up to date information. Some of my enquiries didn’t even listed on Experian and Illion. And I also found got rejected recently for a CC with high income and high credit score.

    • TasJacks on 29/12/2022 - 17:22

      Yep Experian isnt up to date.

  • Drakesy on 29/12/2022 - 10:34

    Ah the mysteries of being declined for credit cards
    Your numbers look good as far as spend and income are concerned

    Mist have just opened and closed a few too many cards.
    Either that or they just are targeting a certain demographic

    Mind you, westpac's sign up process is by far the worst , they'll make you wait in line on the telephone for an hour just to ask for your permission to send you an email…

  • Lunarboogie on 29/12/2022 - 13:03
    -1

    I'm in the same lonely boat as OP. Been churning for ten years. Opened and closed over 100 cards in that time. Credit score in the high 900s. Little debt. Lots of assets. Then all of sudden - BOOM! Rejection after rejection. Even Amex has shown me the bird. So I stopped applying 6 months ago to let my reputation recover. I'm planning to apply in January to see if I am back in black. If that fails, I'll move on to mortgage churning. Seems easier these days to do that than get a credit card.

    • timhn on 29/12/2022 - 22:03
      -1

      Same here. Been churning for only last 5-6 years. Only about 3-4 cards per year. Citibank was my favourite bank as they have no cool down period like other banks. I had applied almost 1-2 new CC per year with them without problem. Then they suddenly rejected my application around May for a lowly $6K Rewards card. Then few months later, I applied for a similar Rewards card (also from citi) and got instant approval.
      When the Prestige card deal available, i bite the bullet, closed the Rewards card and applied for
      Prestige card the day after. Boom, they approved me almost immediately next day.

      Then recently i applied for a CC from Bendigo with $5K but got instant rejection. That after i already closed an ANZ card with $15K limit.

      I guess I'll keep out for 1-2 months before going apply next cc. I'm not worry credit score/history much.

    • [Deactivated] on 31/12/2022 - 12:59

      Good luck with that, I'm sure they can see that you're turning over 10 CC a year. That is bound to affect you're ability to refinance.

      Another reason people might get rejected is, because people who do approval can see a pattern and realise you're flipping and that means no $$$ for them.

      I'm not sure if banks say see you've held 3 other cards in a single year, but to me that would be a red flag of someone who is just scamming bonues.

      • Lunarboogie on 12/01/2023 - 13:33

        Nah bro. I've had no issues getting home loans or refinancing, including most recently as 6 months ago. If your fundamentals are strong, banks are tripping over themselves to sign you up these days. He competiton is fierce.

    • SKiZO on 12/01/2023 - 11:55

      If you are so inclined, wouldn't mind an update to see how it works out. GL!

  • cuy on 29/12/2022 - 13:11

    Do you have dependents? Are you single or have a partner that works? Do you any other form of debt (Credit card, hecs, personal, car)?

  • netsurfer on 29/12/2022 - 13:13
    +1

    It's generally more about your income. They won't trust what you put in the application form. They will calculate based on your payslips. Generally, what you have in savings is something they don't care (because you can transfer the money out any time).

  • Tony-Abbott on 29/12/2022 - 13:25
    +1

    How many times does it need to be said, that credit scores mean NOTHING in Australia.

    • timhn on 29/12/2022 - 22:35
      +1

      This.

      The number is just from some sort algorithms from each individual credit monitoring service. I doubt if any bank going use that. They're only look at your history and have their own assessment.

    • footyboy on 30/12/2022 - 07:28
      +1

      @Tony-Abbott
      Broker here - can unequivocally say… credit scores are VERY important for home loans.

      Aidan.

      • mskeggs on 31/12/2022 - 03:44
        +1

        Is it the score, or the history?
        My score is lower than I expected with stable banking/mortgage with no delinquencies and plenty of assets, but I am not interested in giving illion/experian more data in the hopes of raising that number.
        I haven’t had dramas with credit applications getting a new mortgage etc.

        • footyboy on 31/12/2022 - 07:37
          +3

          @mskeggs the score is important too.

          With many lenders, if your score is below a certain threshold, youll be auto-declined even before it reaches a human assessor.

          Aidan.

    • El-Rhi on 30/12/2022 - 13:35

      This statement has time and time again been disproven by those who work in the banking industry

      • footyboy on 05/01/2023 - 19:59

        @El-Rhi who's statement?

        • El-Rhi on 05/01/2023 - 20:01
          +1

          How many times does it need to be said, that credit scores mean NOTHING in Australia

  • LakeVostok on 29/12/2022 - 13:38

    Credit scores and reports get updated monthly. So if you cancelled your Suncorp credit card on say 15 Dec, your credit report won't show it as cancelled until 1 Jan, therefore inflating total credit balance under your name. Also, some companies take longer to report. For e.g. Qantas credit cards take 3 months to completely close, as per Qantas credit card customer rep. So my credit report is still showing an active Qantas credit card I cancelled mid Oct; hopefully it will appear cancelled in my Jan or Feb credit report.

    • TasJacks on 29/12/2022 - 17:20

      Thanks, was wondering why my Citi Premier CC isnt showing as closed on my Experian report today. It was closed on 2nd Dec but this makes sense.

  • Mumbles on 29/12/2022 - 15:29
    -1

    $22K in savings is common. The last 3 years has meant everybody has been spending less and building up savings.

    So just having savings isn't a big deal for the banks.

    There's heaps of more important criteria. For example age and credit history. If you are 17 years old with barely any history it won't matter what your credit score is. It's hard to have 20x Credit Card applications approved for that age. When you are 70 years it will be easier.

  • fredz0r on 29/12/2022 - 15:53
    +1

    It is just Westpac in general. Applied for same card. After 5 days they required more documents. 7 days pass more documents required. Got frustrated because I asked why you didn't ask for those at the start and they couldn't tell me why, so I withdraw my application and signed up with Bankwest and was approved same day and cards issued the next.

  • Cyphar on 29/12/2022 - 21:08
    +1

    Same issue is being repeated across the Frequent Flyer groups I'm in who all love to churn for points. Frequent rejections regardless of how good your credit score is due to the credit crunch going on.

  • CuteWittleCorgi on 30/12/2022 - 11:18
    +1

    What you're doing wrong, is not owning property. Not having assets is what you're doing wrong. If I were a bank, I wouldn't lend to anyone that doesn't have assets.

    • timhn on 30/12/2022 - 13:16

      I'm similar like OP's situation but with a home owner. Still got several rejections this year - never get one reject before.

    • madreece on 05/01/2023 - 20:14
      +1

      Credit card applications don't care about assets. It's all about capacity to repay if all your credit lines are fully drawn.

  • Discountz on 30/12/2022 - 14:03

    Up your living expenses, unless you have other loans your not disclosing you are claiming to save over $70k a year.

    Churn less often, it's not attractive

  • SydneySchnorrer on 30/12/2022 - 14:32
    +1

    Son, i was playing this game before you born. I'm north of 1.5m pts and unable to use them, so it seems a waste in hindsight. Thanks COVID and the lack of availability of rewards tickets.

    Despite your credit rating being 'good' there are still several applications for credit and this definitely gets flagged. All of this ties in with the RC into Banking which saw a 'tightening' of lending.

    I still laugh that i was given a 30k credit card when 18 and at university and living at home and yet i'd struggle to get approved for a 10k platinum card in the current climate.

    • drfuzzy on 31/12/2022 - 01:12
      +1

      I was given a total of 48k credit card limits before i started my first full time job
      In fact the banks involved had set up makeshift stands at my uni to ensure everyone had one of each

  • thanatos350 on 30/12/2022 - 15:42
    +1

    Someone I know got declined by the same bank for a relatively low $, despite high income and good credit. Contrary to what people here are saying, they had never had a credit card prior - which may have been the red flag?

    • SydneySchnorrer on 31/12/2022 - 10:44

      No card = no repayment history, this is a red flag in the post Banking royal commission era sadly.

  • AircraftFreight on 30/12/2022 - 16:19
    +1

    I was on the verge of submitting my Citibank Prestige application just for the PP benefits (and the QFF points ;)) as I do find myself paying for lounge access for when not flying on OW.

    I know this is irrelevant but you can be added as an Amex Platinum Authorised User from the United States, you’ll need to find a very close murican friend who’s willing to do this. They will call up Amex and get a card shipped to a US address to be forwarded to Aus. Activate it by calling Amex us and using your passport instead of a SSN. It worked out great - using the card and paying a split 1/3 ($59) USD PA few for the AU card for some really nice travel benefits including hotel status, Priority Pass select, Centurion lounge access and Delta SkyClub access.

    It’s worth it alone just for PP select. If you don’t have status you can still get access to a very large selection of lounges at Intl terminals here across Aus, highly recommend “The House”and everywhere in the US and NA. (Highly recommend adding the LoungeBuddy app)

  • malich on 30/12/2022 - 16:57
    +2

    830 credit score according to who?

    Citi might use a different credit reporting agency

  • nobro25 on 31/12/2022 - 07:25

    Have you been in arrears with any of your payments with anything (whether it's previous credit cards, personal loans, debts, mortgages etc)within the past 5 years?

    Any of those factors may reflect not just your credit score. The score is just the face value, the entire credit report is what counts.

  • echelon6 on 31/12/2022 - 09:02
    +1

    I havent managed to get a successful ANZ black for years - i guess more banks are detecting churners

  • Pudina Chutney on 31/12/2022 - 13:12
    -1

    They don't see you as profitable. No point in whinging. Move on.

  • ass3ts on 31/12/2022 - 19:13
    +1

    Just like many other things, it's just a matter of time before some form of control is introduced as more and more people are exploiting it.

  • T-man on 01/01/2023 - 04:14
    +1

    After the royal commission, cc churning is dead to me, Aussie credit file is a joke compared to the US credit file system.

  • [Deactivated] on 01/01/2023 - 11:29
    +1

    Someone get this man a credit card

  • roseXivy on 10/01/2023 - 13:42

    I got some details from my friend who successfully applied for Citibank cc, card limit 20k

    Cc history: churned credit cards each with 5–10k limit in 2022, all cancelled and waited for confirmation letter before applying.

    Income of 95k, similar to your income. he had same place of employment for last 10 years, no other sources of income declared.

    He has more way savings than you OP but bank officer said it wasn’t necessary to show proof of savings so likely the bank didn’t consider that at all.

    FYI, he declared these expenses to get approved with that income:
    his share of mortgage: 250 wk
    Other income: 150 wk

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