New proposal to reduce accidents - make men wait until they're 21

SlavOz on 09/09/2022 - 15:43

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/sep/09/contr…

A new proposal seeks to discriminate against men by making them wait longer for their license, raising the driving age to 21 or 22.

My first thought was, that's like solving the gender pay gap by taking women out of the workforce. No pay for women = no pay gap¡!

In all seriousness, the driving age probably should be raised. Young male drivers are a huge risk factor but men are already systemically oppressed when it comes to homelessness etc, so taking away their driving privileges through sexist policies isnt the solution.

Crazy how every time the government discusses ways to improve road safety, they always put the onus on other people. Never have they considered that their "expert" road rules training, and licensing system is completely broken and needs a rehaul.

Automotive

Comments

  • LFO on 10/09/2022 - 19:34
    +1

    As growing old is mandatory, but growing up is optional driving maturity is also optional and sometimes never achieved.

  • A-mak on 10/09/2022 - 20:02
    +1

    As a male who grew up riding motorcycles and driving paddock bombs from a young age, got my P's at 18 as well as motorbike license + a sports bike and now in my 30's having never had an accident nor speeding fine I find it shallow-minded that there are people here who think to simply move the goal posts of experience to a later age would actually solve the issue.

    Over the years I have witnessed from both men and women the sheer lack of experience and understanding of how driving works, whiles primarily males do have that influence of the need to show off. I think what could help to address these two factors is the requirement of advanced driving courses as well as VicRoads (or whatever state road authority) forcing proper cockpit simulations to help these potential hazards gain experience and understanding.

    Go ahead and ask around how many people actually know what aquaplaning is and how to deal with it, how to tell if a tyre is bald, what oversteer/understeer means or even an apex? People need to understand that when you get behind the wheel you are handling one of the most deadliest weapons in the world.

    To simply delay people gaining experience would not address these problems, the delay would just be the hope that with age the persons would take a more responsible approach. I am doubtful that it would do this and would only serve to hinder the potential employment of this age group.

    I think opening up further avenues of experience on and OFF public roads would be great, with access to simulators backed by on hand credible advice would also be great.

    • SlavOz on 10/09/2022 - 20:18

      I just can't understand why we don't integrate driver training into our school curriculum. Of all the useless shit we teach kids, on repeat, yet something they desperately need and could save their life isn't on there. Then again, neither is how to write a resume, use LinkedIn, or file a tax return. Makes you wonder what exactly kids teach if not valuable work and life skills.

      • Willy Beamish on 10/09/2022 - 21:41

        If you think it needs to be changed then the best thing you can do is get involved, start rustling feathers and making them aware.

        • SlavOz on 10/09/2022 - 23:12
          -1

          I'm smart enough to know what's it's not taught, and that reason isn't going to change.

          Schools exist for 2 overlapping purposes - a subsidised daycare centre for working parents, and as a cultural indoctrination centre for kids. It's not set up to teach kids valuable life skills. It's just there to teach them how our society operates - you do as your told by the authority figures, so one day you can go out and do the same for a corporation or the government.

          • Ughhh on 11/09/2022 - 10:00

            @SlavOz:

            Then again, neither is how to write a resume, use LinkedIn, or file a tax return.

            That sounds a preparation for how our society operates.

            If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.
            You can't write your resume if your English sucks. You can't work out what's 70% off if you don't understand maths. School is supposed to train critical thinking, research etc skills, so you can do far more than just update your LinkedIn all day.

            • Willy Beamish on 11/09/2022 - 12:22
              -2

              @Ughhh: You literally never have to work out the percentage discounts…. Never.

              • Ughhh on 11/09/2022 - 17:38

                @Willy Beamish:

                You literally never have to work out the percentage discounts…. Never.

                You realise that ozbargain/shopping/discounting isn't the only place where you may need to work out percentages right?

            • SlavOz on 11/09/2022 - 12:51
              -3

              @Ughhh: Who are you trying to lie to? I finished school, went out into the real world, and became a legal adult. I work with adults everyday. Nobody needs to know how to work out maths problems on their feet. Nobody even bothers trying. That's what calculators are for.

              If we're being honest, you don't need even need a good grasp of English to work in the corporate world. Australia has millions of immigrants who can barely speak English that manage to get by.

              After about the 7th grade, you're just learning the same useless shit on repeat. Seems like the only tangible benefit that school adds is to prepare kids for university…which itself is a completely flawed system with little practical value.

              • p3nf0ld on 11/09/2022 - 14:10

                @SlavOz: Glorious post:
                Tell me you know nothing about education without telling me you know nothing.

              • SBOB on 11/09/2022 - 14:20

                @SlavOz:

                Australia has millions of immigrants who can barely speak English

                Do you often just repeat Pauline Hanson talking points as 'fact'?

                That entire post illustrates so clearly a lack of education understanding and what secondary and tertiary education actually provides. On brand as usual.

                • SlavOz on 11/09/2022 - 15:16

                  @SBOB:

                  Do you often just repeat Pauline Hanson talking points as 'fact'?

                  You're the one denying the vast existence of immigrants in Australia.

                  Racist much?

                  • SBOB on 11/09/2022 - 15:56

                    @SlavOz: You're the one claiming (regurgitating) of the immigrants in the country( of which is about 7.5 million) there are millions (ie more than 2 million) that can barely speak English…

                    On brand much?

                    I'm not claiming their non existence, though I will claim the non existence of something else in the quality of your posts…

              • Ughhh on 11/09/2022 - 17:42

                @SlavOz:

                Nobody needs to know how to work out maths problems on their feet. Nobody even bothers trying. That's what calculators are for.

                You clearly don't work in an industry where having basic maths and being to work out percentages is useful…and you clearly think everyone does the same job as you.

                If we're being honest, you don't need even need a good grasp of English

                Then we'd end of up with an embarrassing and constantly outraged and confused population who can not read and misinterpret basic information.

                • SlavOz on 11/09/2022 - 17:50
                  -1

                  @Ughhh:

                  You clearly don't work in an industry where having basic maths and being to work out percentages is useful

                  Like what? Which job requires you to work out maths problems in your head? Tradies, accountants, engineers, and even statisticians use either a calculator or advanced analytic tools to work out what they need. Teaching kids to multiply in their head is an archaic, useless skill.

                  I worked in IT and then marketing. Both had a high demand for interpreting numbers.

                  • Euphemistic on 11/09/2022 - 17:54

                    @SlavOz: You may not have to work stuff out in your head, but it certainly speeds the process if you don’t have to find a calculator and punch in some numbers.

                    I’d do mental maths more than a few times a week, and my role doesn’t require measuring stuff everyday. If I’m actually constructing something with measurements, mental maths will be dozens of times a day. If I didn’t use my head it’d take twice as long to calculate.

                  • Ughhh on 11/09/2022 - 17:56

                    @SlavOz: I work in mining. We definitely use maths in our heads for estimates and to interpret data. Try being more open minded. It's not just about being able to do it in your head, but being able to understand and use the formula for excel for example.

                    • SlavOz on 11/09/2022 - 18:27

                      @Ughhh: Sure, understanding numbers and how they can be manipulated can be a valuable skill. But we don't need to spend 13 years drilling it on repeat. There are far more important things we could be teaching kids. The best value I got out school was from teachers who were brave enough to cut the shit and talk to me in real terms - tell me about the world outside of this silly demerit and asking for permission to piss system.

                      Our current school system is set up to favour universities so the kids are ready to go from day 1. So in other words, we're using taxpayer funds to subsidise the productivity of rich corporations.

                      You really think this has more value than teaching kids actual life lessons to be independent adults? It's absolutely criminal to think you can complete 17 years of education in this country (13 for school, average 4 years of uni) and never come across a tax return or superannuation.

                      • Ughhh on 11/09/2022 - 18:47

                        @SlavOz:

                        But we don't need to spend 13 years drilling it on repeat.

                        From what age/year to what year? You're not required to pick high level maths ie. complex numbers.

                        The best value I got out school was from teachers who were brave enough to cut the shit and talk to me in real terms

                        That sounds like a you problem rather than a 'everyone' problem.

                        You really think this has more value than teaching kids actual life lessons to be independent adults? It's absolutely criminal to think you can complete 17 years of education in this country (13 for school, average 4 years of uni) and never come across a tax return or superannuation.

                        How are you able to do your taxes and super now since you were never educated on it? Did you learn it through being able to read English, learn and research yourself?

                        As I said before, If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime. Now this man not only has the ability to read and learn how to do a simple tax return, but can also do other stuff like apply for a mortgage.

                        • SlavOz on 11/09/2022 - 21:02
                          -1

                          @Ughhh:

                          How are you able to do your taxes and super now since you were never educated on it? Did you learn it through being able to read English, learn and research yourself?

                          No, I went out into the workforce like every other clueless 18 year old and had no idea what to do until I learned on the job.

                          Of course being able to read helps, I never said we shouldn't teach kids how to read. I'm saying there are better ways to spend 13 years than just teaching them a very narrow path of content, most of which they'll never actually use.

                          Come on, they teach imaginary gender theory, cooking, design work, wielding, and other hobbies in school (granted, some of those can build skills that lead to employment). As if there's no room for Real World 101 where we teach immediate skills they'll need as soon as they graduate.

                          • SBOB on 11/09/2022 - 21:53

                            @SlavOz:

                            wielding

                            Weapon classes?

                          • Ughhh on 12/09/2022 - 10:49

                            @SlavOz:

                            teaching them a very narrow path of content, most of which they'll never actually use

                            What is narrow content? Be specific.

                            Just because you failed to understand the developmental benefits and how to use those skills, don't make it useless. Did you do primary school and high school in Australia?

                            So you're 100% sure that a school never mentions anything related to careers eg. Resume, work experience etc?

                            • SlavOz on 12/09/2022 - 11:15
                              -2

                              @Ughhh:

                              What is narrow content? Be specific.

                              We teach the same small selection of topics (English, maths, history etc) and just add a minute level of detail every year. I started learning my timestables in year 3 and was still doing it by year 7, just slightly harder versions.

                              By year 12 were teaching mathematical equations that most kids will never even use or remember. When have you ever needed to know a standard deviation or the name of a writing technique you observed in class reading? That's just filler content.

                              • Donaldhump on 12/09/2022 - 16:43
                                +3

                                @SlavOz: i use standard deviations all the time
                                you're about 3 standard deviations from the average intelligence to the left hand side

                              • Ughhh on 13/09/2022 - 10:28

                                @SlavOz:

                                We teach the same small selection of topics (English, maths, history etc) and just add a minute level of detail every year.

                                Because you develop and build on existing skills….

                                I started learning my timestables in year 3 and was still doing it by year 7, just slightly harder versions.

                                Seems you were a bit behind.

                                By year 12 were teaching mathematical equations that most kids will never even use or remember

                                You pick your subjects.

                                When have you ever needed to know a standard deviation

                                Never. But it's not about knowing the STD, it's about what it means and how to work it out. Maths in school is about the process rather than the answer. You've clearly missed the point after 13 years. Youre being narrow minded.

                  • Donaldhump on 12/09/2022 - 16:42

                    @SlavOz: the software developers who write those analytics tools need maths.
                    civil engineers who calculate weights and loads on structures
                    pilots who fly you to your holiday

    • saltypete on 11/09/2022 - 09:32
      +1

      I really agree with this. There are so many kids who are responsible drivers at 16 years, and use that mobility to get a good start in life.

      And older folk that are still completely useless and dangerous drivers, and other things besides…..

      We really need to get a legal definition of d@ckhead and apply it to them.

  • kabammi on 10/09/2022 - 20:38
    +1

    Make it 18 for everyone and be done with it. A few bad eggs shouldn't relegate everyone else.

  • Kranbone on 10/09/2022 - 22:51
    +1

    We shouldn't be punishing many for the actions of a few (especially those who are stupid).

  • randomvis on 11/09/2022 - 00:39
    +1

    This is such a boomer thing to do.

    You'd they think they are doing us a favor by making young people jump through hoops— when all they had to do was go down to the police station to get their license.

    They treat young people like children and then get surprised when they start acting like it. Give them responsibility early and they will act like adults. Let's make them do a driving test… no wait… a theoretical test…. no wait…. a hazard perception test…. no wait… a log book of 20 hours… no wait… 120 hours…. let's make them wait until they are 20…. WHY ARE YOU ACTING LIKE CHILDREN!

    You can fly a plane solo above everyone's heads by age 15, so driving around at age 16 isn't a big deal.

    • Euphemistic on 11/09/2022 - 08:37

      You can’t just hop in a plane and fly solo. It takes a lot of training time.

      • randomvis on 11/09/2022 - 11:59

        I know, I trained for going solo from 13. But it didn't take 120 hours of practice.

        • Euphemistic on 11/09/2022 - 17:12

          The extra training time for drivers is important because airspace is relatively well controlled. On the roads you have to put up with thousands of worse than average drivers everyday. Even the better than average drivers don’t get it right all the time.

  • baldur on 11/09/2022 - 07:15
    +1

    What an age! Thanks to the social justice warriors, woke, cancel culture people, its getting harder and harder to be a straight male these days.

    • Euphemistic on 11/09/2022 - 08:38
      -3

      No it’s not. Just as easy as ever, but it’s getting easier for others and the consequences of straight male’s actions over centuries is coming home.

      • baldur on 11/09/2022 - 08:57
        +1

        so taking revenge makes these woke, cancel culture people nicer, more sensitive, awake and respectful?

        • HangryCakeStore on 12/09/2022 - 15:06

          Maybe your ancestors had it way to easy and it’s time balance the scales

  • Miss B on 11/09/2022 - 08:52
    +2

    I don't think they will ever raise it above 18, because being unable to drive is a huge impediment when it comes to employment. Not everyone needs to drive at 18, but for some it is critical.

    More education, mandatory defensive driving course, longer learner period, better driving tests.

    There were a couple of crashes that killed several teenagers when I was a teenager. It made me really think before I got in a car with someone else. If someone was a bad driver/ unlicensed, or I didn't trust them I wouldn't get in the car with them. I wouldn't get in the car with someone if they'd had anything to drink. I didn't do stupid things when I was driving.

    Other people don't learn from these things or they assume it won't happen to them. Parents are probably best placed to teach their teenagers about these past crashes before they start driving and why it's important to drive safely and only get in the car with safe drivers. Explain that it's not an accident, it's a consequence of poor choices (where alcohol/ speeding/other stupid things were involved). None of them thought it would happen to them. And it didn't, until it did. They'd probably gotten away with it before and thought they were top shit. In several cases at least, the driver survived and killed at least some of their friends. That's the kind of thing that will destroy your life even if you don't die.

    Make sure your teenager feels comfortable speaking up and telling the driver to stop driving dangerously or let them out (be willing to go and pick them up if they get out). If it's an actual friend they will drive safely with them in the car. I did pretty much everything with one particular friend and we ended up hanging out with a group that included older people. We would always politely tell anyone driving us to drive properly (if they weren't) or let us out, without fail they ALL always drove safely with us in the car, none refused or told us to get out. If they were going to do something stupid they would let us know and we wouldn't go with them. We probably could have done better to try to encourage them to drive more safely, we did at least convince them not to drive after they'd been drinking. Luckily nothing happened to any of them.

  • Shane034 on 11/09/2022 - 09:03
    -4

    Speed limiters on cars would be an easier option.

  • T3J on 11/09/2022 - 09:10
    +1

    Well sure, but that implies that the legal age to be considered an adult should also be 21, so no alcohol either.. but the flip side is no adult responsibility to vote, be fined or charged as an adult for anything. They want to have it both ways… your an adult when it matters to them but not for other things.

  • TEER3X on 11/09/2022 - 09:33

    Maybe change it to 16 like murica!

  • Cluster on 11/09/2022 - 10:00

    This sounds like gender based discrimination, which we all know is bad.

    Many jobs require a drivers licence, or the mobility to work that the licence provides. Delaying males getting a licence by several years puts females at a significant advantage in many workplaces.

    This idea is a complete non starter. It makes for an interesting clickbait article, but it will never ever get up.

  • Brick Tamland on 11/09/2022 - 10:23

    Plain bonkers of an idea.

    How much money would that suck out of the economy if men cant drive to work and do their apprenticeships and whatever.

    Make the licence more expensive and include a defensive driving course as part of that added expense. Why invest crazy ideas of banning people when its easier and more cost effective to educate.

  • MrThing on 11/09/2022 - 11:02
    +2

    Anyone who drives a Commodore or a falcon should be required to have special licenses.

    All bogan aggressive drivers

    • SlavOz on 11/09/2022 - 12:30

      lol true. P platers should be restricted to 4 cylinder manual cars only. Might make them appreciate the complexity of driving rather than just "this is the button that makes us go fast and smash into a tree!!"

    • TEER3X on 13/09/2022 - 19:42

      Toyota Hilux drivers already have these special licenses. I'm sure of it.

  • xavster on 11/09/2022 - 11:15

    I disagree with the Guardian on this. The issue here is the judicial system. This individual of legal driving age, has demonstrated a pattern of behaviour that endangers road users (2 speeding incidents resulting in suspension). Yet he still got his licence back and was on the road again.

    The lack of real consequence for dangerous high risk driving is the real culprit.

    Also, the parents of those kids, what the hell is a 15 year old girl doing out late in some rando's car on a school night?

  • Canberralad92 on 11/09/2022 - 11:15
    +2

    Lol as if anyone would even entertain the idea that this would ever happen. Moronic.

    • lachhelix on 12/09/2022 - 00:20

      I was coming up with some grumpy passive aggressive reply - then I realised who the OP was and gave up

  • Obkay on 11/09/2022 - 13:07
    -1

    This plan is good in the sense that it will get more people to use public transport and reduce the amount of cars on the road with only one person in them.

  • bomberswarm2 on 11/09/2022 - 13:18
    +4

    Any man with a brain would just delcare himself female

  • mitt on 11/09/2022 - 15:22

    Men are already checking out of society at increasing rates. Less ambition for higher paying work, fewer university graduates, less committed relationships. Dumping the problems of the world onto young men specifically isn't going to get any reaction but further withdrawal.

    When women are unfairly treated noise & protest seems to be the default response. Men typically just stop participating & find something else to do.

    Japan is already dealing with this with the "herbivore men" problem, The powers that be over there are flipping out as young men decide not to join the rat race/have kids/keep things ticking over. Wont somebody think of the GDP!

  • nGu on 11/09/2022 - 16:07

    Not being able to drive makes you a second class citizen and excludes you from a lot of blue collar jobs which requires you to drive yourself to worksites. Imagine apprentice tradies needing a dude to drive you to get work experience until 21. There will be a bipartisan effort to stop this.

    As a society we're too baked in and reliant on roads and car infra.

    • Euphemistic on 11/09/2022 - 18:02
      +1

      Not to mention for a lot of people the public transport system is just rubbish. Takes 3-4 times as long to get where you need to go unless you’re on one of the usual routes.

  • rlf on 11/09/2022 - 21:16

    Because of one crash that made the news recently? When was the most recent before that? We have an extremely low road toll death rate for a country our size pretty sure.

    Overreaction.

  • [Deactivated] on 11/09/2022 - 22:35

    The real problem is that it's impossible to tell if this is serious or an Onion article. Such is the world we live in.

  • hasher22 on 11/09/2022 - 23:02
    +1

    Article state "drivers under the age of 25 account for almost 25% of crashes in NSW, despite only representing about 15% of all drivers in the state."

    Me: So why 21 or 22? Make it 26 then……

    Then it states: “The first six months of licensing, in particular, people are very vulnerable to crashes,”

    Me: Well, getting it at 21 or 22 will not remove that stat

    Then: "there are a number of restrictions on inexperienced and novice young drivers … but it’s not enough"

    Me: Ummm, if you delay people driving, it delays their experience on the road….. contradictory much?

  • RefusdClassification on 12/09/2022 - 06:20

    There are always workarounds. In this case the solution is, Self identify as a woman. I would also recommend identifying as aboriginal, Muslim and disabled. The more privileged minorities you belong to, the greater your chance of succeeding in life.

  • [Deactivated] on 12/09/2022 - 07:42

    17 year old red p platers drive like idiots.

    I've had them speed past me in a 110 zone, me doing 110 on my full licence.

    But I've seen decent ones too. Obviously it's not them all doing this.

    • TEER3X on 13/09/2022 - 19:43

      Maybe your speedo is off

  • THICKnSLOW on 12/09/2022 - 09:01
    -2

    Quadruple or triple the fines and licence suspension periods for 18-21, to encourage proper driving. Earn your eligibility to drive public roads.

    Double the fines and suspensions for recent immigrants or overseas license holders. No offence but what they're used to driving in their home country, doesn't meet standards here.

    • Cluster on 12/09/2022 - 11:24
      +1

      The fine in my state for driving at 70km/h in a 60 zone is already $500. How much higher should it be? It's already disproportionate to the offence being caused.

      Anyway, a teenager driving recklessly with a car load of friends is not thinking about the consequences, regardless of how high the fine is.

    • eggplant on 12/09/2022 - 15:25

      I think its more to do with the lack of enforcement rather than the fine or punishment. I routinely see folks running red lights, creating their own lane on the shoulder/median etc etc (take one look at the dashcams on YT). Essentially folks that should really be catching the bus instead of being behind the wheel.

  • dogboy on 12/09/2022 - 09:14

    Remember - equality in today's day and age isn't about equal opportunity but equal outcome. So you have to apply sexism to give women an unfair advantage in order to have an equal outcome. Think about that for a minute and tell me it isn't complete BS.

    • OzzyOzbourne on 12/09/2022 - 16:00
      +1

      It's called positive discrimination which is apparently legal as long as it's only used against men…preferably white straight ones…'cause they're all privileged and probably evil too 🙄

  • Cluster on 12/09/2022 - 11:22
    +2

    Instead of gender based discrimination (because gender based discrimination is always bad), why not actually test the people applying for a licence and gauge whether they're mentally fit to hold a licence? I bet you'll find many 18 year olds who are much more sensible than some 25 year olds, of all genders.

    This proposal is a non starter anyway. It's a clickbait article quoting a reactionary spouting silly ideas. Allowing females a three year head start on driving means three years of extra job opportunities, either because the job requires a licence or a licence is required to get to work.

    Anyway, if the silly law is implemented I bet we'll see large numbers of biological males declaring themselves to be female to get a licence.

  • Zondor on 12/09/2022 - 11:41

    Ahh yes, another newscorp article designed to generate outrage, well done for giving them more clicks!

  • mshanann on 12/09/2022 - 12:48
    +1

    I can honestly say I was an immature idiot as a teen driver and pretty much thought I was bulletproof. As did a number of my mates. Fortunately I didn't have a high powered car.

    Probably my worst incident was trying to foolishly overtake multiple vehicles on a 100km/h single lane road because the car at front wasn't consistently doing the speed limit. I got away with it due to someone travelling in same direction letting me squeeze back in and thus avoiding oncoming car which had begun taking avoidance actions. It could have been a lot of innocent lives impacted that day by my impatience and recklessness.

    When I did have access to a high powered work vehicle, I'd regularly drive it like a complete fool - speeding excessively particularly on what I perceived to be safe empty roads. When it was raining, I'd experiment trying to slide the car.

    Turning point for me (mentally maturing), was the early gore-ish uncensored car crash videos that I started seeing on the internet. It started to click that even a low speed crash in to a tree had a very high possibility of death and significant injuries.

    As much as I detest them (from getting 'caught' and fined just a couple of K over the limit), I think marked and unmarked speed camera vehicles in random areas do stop idots. I know I would certainly have thought twice due to the financial penalty had they been around when I was driving like an imbecile.

    Finally, why they don't mandate a device/technology in cars to track GPS coordinates, speed, RPM and g-force with photo/video is beyond me. It should apply for all drivers under a certain age threshold and also those that lost license for any reason, or exceeded speed limit by a certain threshold.
    Similar technology should allow remote-slow-down and ultimately shut-down of vehicles flagged as stolen. Nanny state or not, it would save lives.

    • tonka on 12/09/2022 - 15:03

      Brilliant, I have no idea why people are so determined to protect the privacy of people committing crimes. Same goes for cameras in public places.

    • burningrage on 12/09/2022 - 16:00

      Thank you for the honesty.

      The flip side of the coin is this

      I started driving at I think year 11 or 12 through driving lesson. Although the rules were stupidly restrictive (I was once failed because the driving assessor was having a chat with my instructor sitting at a front and forgot to tell me which way to turn so I turned right and I was failed for failing to give way to oncoming traffic), one thing that I got to learn was defensive driving.

      Fast forward to when I had my full licence, I got my first job at rural Victoria in a factory. Back then, Princess Highway was mostly dual lanes (one in bound and one out bound) and largely empty. Did I speed in excess of legal limit? Yes I did and so did mostly everyone else and truckies but did I drive excessively over the speed limit? Absolutely not. I am still okay to this day and that's most likely because I know my own personal capabilities and thus, wouldn't even countenance doing things like sliding the car.

      Together with my defensive driving training and experience with high and low speed maneuvering as the result of constantly driving in country conditions allowed me to stay mostly free of at-fault accidents mostly. In fact, the only at fault major accident I had was when I was driving WITHIN the speed limit. I am also a zero pointer in terms of demerit points.

      These days Princes Highway is full of 80s and 60s and much less of 100s. People are being conditioned to drive slow and of they went hogging the right lanes driving at 60kph in 80kphs or 70kphs in 100kphs/110kphs zone and yet, we are no better in road tolls if this article is correct.

      https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/news/road-fatalities-2021-…

      People are increasingly losing their common courtesy when it comes to driving. Yesterday, a lady driver with obviously his partner stopped at the red light. When the light turned green, the lady was oblivious (mobile phone?) for a good 5 seconds before I flashed my light, another 3 seconds, didn't move, I honked lightly (short/sharp press), another 3 seconds passed before I was forced to honked longer. Only then she realized and took off but NOT before her partner gave me a finger.

      They were in the wrong and yet, instead of gracefully accepted they were wrong, they doubled down and behaved as if they were not wrong.

      I don't need to see youtube to know how dangerous driving can do to me. I detest speed cameras especially unmarked ones. I think they are cowardly. Anyone who says they detest cameras but yet loved GPS/Speed limiter/Slowdown/remote shutdowns technology I think they are revenue raisers in disguise because the logic is flawed.

      Cameras don't necessary save lives (see the article above) but they do 100% definitely raise revenues and they ALWAYS went up year after year. That's the fact.

      I believe the best way to combat road tolls are mandatory defensive driving, have the humility to know your own capacity in driving, and exposure to multi different driving conditions as well as having the right vehicle with the right safety technology such as frontline crash mitigation or anti-fatigue alert which modern car have these days.

      • mshanann on 12/09/2022 - 16:41

        The tricky one though is do we really want young people to believe they are better drivers than everyone else on the road because they have done a basic defensive driving course?

        Do we really want them speeding in suburban streets they are familiar with because they perceive themselves to be less likely to have an accident than everyone else due to the greater skills and youth, and that 99 times out of 100 the street is safe to travel fast on? What if it is the street you live on where your kids ride bikes and so forth.

        Distractions like phones (which were not a problem when I started out driving) I imagine are infinitely more dangerous than basic speeding. There should be zero tolerance for anyone caught in a moving vehicle using a phone, but potentially a lesser fine if the vehicle is stationary.

        I hate travelling slow just as much as anyone else - but at the same time it is not just about me. That country road that is always empty where surely it is safe to travel 130 in, that is all well and good until Mrs farmer wants to pull out of her driveway and not expecting Mr 20 y/o with defensive driving course under his belt to be flying along in his hilux with mates in tow egging him on.

        I don't know the answer - but I do know that there is a large percentage of young males that don't recognise some of the physical consequences of dangerous driving - particularly when they have mates in the car. How often is it that the driver survives but the passengers are maimed/killed.

        • SlavOz on 12/09/2022 - 18:26
          -1

          If it's zero tolerance for mobile phone use, it has to also be the same rules for mums distracted by their kids in the back seat, or women doing their make-up at a traffic light, or pretty much any activity while driving.

          Mobile phones are just an easy target because nobody questions them.

          • tonka on 12/09/2022 - 19:47
            +3

            @SlavOz: Is there a reason you're always attacking motherhood? You seem to have some deep freaking issues there.

    • SlavOz on 12/09/2022 - 18:29
      -2

      Similar technology should allow remote-slow-down and ultimately shut-down of vehicles flagged as stolen. Nanny state or not, it would save lives.

      Sure, just like enacting 24-hour surveillance laws would undoubtedly save lives too.

      But at some point there needs to be a balance between saving lives and protecting people's dignity and privacy. Because in the long run, history shows that when the government doesnt value the independence and privacy of citizens, it becomes way more dangerous than car accidents ever could. Moving towards fascism in order to save lives is counter-productive.

  • eggplant on 12/09/2022 - 15:13

    Here's an idea to improve road safety for all and not just young drivers. Have authorities accept clearly legible dashcam videos for issuing fines. If drivers can't predictably follow the road rules (as you'd expect when gaining said license), it's time to catch public transport or walk.

    • mshanann on 12/09/2022 - 16:44

      As in accept footage from other vehicles?

      It is not a stupid idea and would get rid of a huge number of idiots from the road.

      • eggplant on 12/09/2022 - 21:19

        Yes exactly. Imagine any car with a dashcam being able to dob clowns that decide to run red lights, use a footpath or shoulder as their private lane.

        Unfortunately some folks won’t learn otherwise. The whole program could be funded with said fines and there would be lots of implementation dials (specific offences, limited number of submissions per driver etc). No doubt we’d have more drivers following the rules and the roads would be safer for everyone.

  • bagofpeaches on 12/09/2022 - 15:30
    +1

    Mean while Stacy in her Fully Automatic Assault Red Mazda 3 with P plates on her phone ready to run a red light at any moments notice

    Maybe its me but I've had far more defensive moments with drivers like that than a young bloke in his shidded and fardded dad's VT

    • MessyG on 12/09/2022 - 16:05

      Stats don't lie though - there's a reason that insurance premiums are higher for young males, whatever you may think about Stacy on her phone.

      • SlavOz on 12/09/2022 - 18:21

        Fortunately, the bad eggs from the male gene pool are susceptible to fines and punishment, so most of them will learn their lesson.

        Young, healthy woman rarely get fined, even when caught doing the wrong thing. Any group of young P platers will tell you that. My ex girlfriend was caught doing an illegal U turn and didn't even have P plates displayed on her car. She just apologised, put on a subtle smile, and was on her way.

  • OzzyOzbourne on 12/09/2022 - 15:56

    Teaching people how to drive would be a good start

    • eggplant on 12/09/2022 - 21:22

      I’d argue a decent number know exactly what they’re doing but don’t give a hoot, take a look at the countless dashcam videos on YT.

      • tonka on 12/09/2022 - 22:51
        +1

        Problem is they think bad driving is good driving. They don't understand that even if you did have mad race car skills, you are a crappy unskilled driver if you drive an everyday vehicle on an everyday road like that. If you have to wind up your rpms and gears to get to 60kms/hr, you can't drive for sh#t. If you lose traction you've fraked up and should be embarrassed. No we also have the problem that people have spent 10,000 hours learning to drive in GTA.

  • MessyG on 12/09/2022 - 16:05
    +2

    I'd much rather they raise the drinking age to 21. For everyone.

  • solidussnake on 12/09/2022 - 16:51

    The driver had lost his license twice, was filming himself driving like a rtard and probably sending it on Snapchat before the accident, everyone in the car wasn't man enough to not say stop driving like a tool he was bound to have an accident.. such a tragic loss of life but natural selection I suppose.. either P players driving like tools or the rest on their phones taking the eyes off the road scary times for the innocent drivers

  • LoserScott on 13/09/2022 - 05:20

    Add speed reducing features in cars, or car shutdown if over speeding for few hours.

    So many solutions.

    Worse case, add the drinking age to 21, and driving test til 18

  • xdigger on 13/09/2022 - 09:22

    Not actually a bad idea!

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