New proposal to reduce accidents - make men wait until they're 21

SlavOz on 09/09/2022 - 15:43

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/sep/09/contr…

A new proposal seeks to discriminate against men by making them wait longer for their license, raising the driving age to 21 or 22.

My first thought was, that's like solving the gender pay gap by taking women out of the workforce. No pay for women = no pay gap¡!

In all seriousness, the driving age probably should be raised. Young male drivers are a huge risk factor but men are already systemically oppressed when it comes to homelessness etc, so taking away their driving privileges through sexist policies isnt the solution.

Crazy how every time the government discusses ways to improve road safety, they always put the onus on other people. Never have they considered that their "expert" road rules training, and licensing system is completely broken and needs a rehaul.

Automotive

Comments

                      • SlavOz on 10/09/2022 - 14:40
                        -3

                        @[Deactivated]: Fair enough, I can see how some people might come to that conclusion on face value.

                        Would it not stand to reason that if incels exist, there must be female versions of them too. Ie, the women that take every opportunity to bash and undermine men out of frustration that none of them find them attractive?

                        I'd say a majority of female voices in the media, including the professor who proposed this law, fit that bill.

                    • tonka on 11/09/2022 - 12:28
                      -1

                      @SlavOz: Women are more likely to be voluntary celibates because they've met guys who have such poor social skills, that are so disrespectful towards them it would be too degrading to engage with them.
                      Interestingly the use of 'SJW' is often associated with incels.

                      • SlavOz on 11/09/2022 - 12:56

                        @tonka:

                        poor social skills, that are so disrespectful towards them it would be too degrading to engage with them.

                        You don't think women can exhibit this sort of undesirable behaviour too?

                        So let me get this straight… When men put women down, they're just desperate incels. But when women put men down, it's empowering, independent, admirable, and probably because the guy had it coming?

                        Why are you like this? That's a toxic attitude to have. You're discriminating against men in your own mind.

                        • tonka on 11/09/2022 - 13:40

                          @SlavOz: Poor baby, you don't even realize you could be happy if you weren't so desperate to be a victim..

                    • MessyG on 12/09/2022 - 16:02

                      @SlavOz: The term "incel" was invented by a woman!! It was hijacked by a certain group.

              • Autonomic on 12/09/2022 - 09:38

                @SlavOz: Is it sexist to predict young men are going to be reckless?

  • freefall101 on 09/09/2022 - 16:35
    +1

    that's like solving the gender pay gap by taking women out of the workforce. No pay for women = no pay gap¡!

    New proposal to reduce wage gap, remove all rights for women!

    Look, someone is proposing sexist new laws! Don't worry about the context, just get outraged!

    Because you have about as much authority to write new laws as the person having the brainfart about making men wait longer for a license.

    • cookie2 on 09/09/2022 - 18:41
      +1

      You do realise OP wasn't suggesting this right? You realise it was showing the stupidity of trying to resolve a problem by removing one sex from the equation?

      • freefall101 on 09/09/2022 - 21:40
        +1

        You do realise I was highlighting that just because someone says something it doesn’t mean it’ll become law, right? The stupidity of overblowing some random idea like it’ll actually happen?

        It doesn’t really work I guess, but yes I understand OPs point. My point was there’s no point losing it over some random brain fart someone had because it’ll never happen.

        • cookie2 on 09/09/2022 - 22:26
          +1

          I worry about these brain farts tho. Plenty of shitty things have been put in place that originally just sound like a brain fart when I hear about it.

          • freefall101 on 10/09/2022 - 15:52

            @cookie2: When it comes to laws though it's pretty easy to tell what would go through. You need to look at who benefits, how hard it would be and would it have a large impact on voters (and thus piss them off).

            The "who benefits" is no one, really. Sure, some kids wouldn't die but they would be more pissed if you took away their drivers licenses.

            It would be incredibly hard to pass. It's probably actually discriminatory as the nexus of benefit is minimal. Most drivers who die are young males but most young male drivers don't die. It'd be tied up in the courts for ages and possibly political suicide to try pass it.

            The impact would be overall negative. People aged 18-21 need to go to work, they don't all live at home, the economic impact would be huge (drop of car sales, petrols sales, not being able to do some jobs), parents would need to shuttle their adult children around, etc. It would annoy a lot of people, not just slide under the radar.

            It's regular to see laws that are stupid but don't actually impact most people. Or laws that benefit some specific group that seems to hold a lot of political sway. Or laws that only have indirect impacts. But this would annoy the shit out of people.

        • SlavOz on 10/09/2022 - 14:43
          -3

          Yeah, brain fart ideas seem to commonplace for the government these days. They don't really think about things that deeply. If there's votes in it, they'll do it.

          Don't forget we just came off 2 years of people not being allowed to see their family or go to school, yet corporations and government figures were allowed to keep living their best years under a different rule set. Don't think anyone really that through.

  • GordonD on 09/09/2022 - 16:39
    +3

    Its hardly a new proposal.

    I was involved in road safety a couple of decades ago, and the statistics and obvious conclusions were obvious.

    Learner drivers have surprisingly few crashes. But pretty much immediately you hand a young person their licence they suddenly become the worst driver on the road. But the longer you can delay young people, and young males especially, from getting their licence, the less dangerous to themselves and everyone else they are when they get them. An 18 year old newly licenced driver is safer than a 17 year old newly licenced driver. A 19 year old is safer than an 18 year old. A 20 year old is safer than a 19 year old. And so on.

    That is actually the point of the requirement to clock up lots of hours/kilometres as a learner. Its not actually that those hours/kilometres make you a better driver. Its that the process delays a lot of young drivers getting their licence until they are a bit older. The reduction in young driver deaths and crashes is actually because there are fewer young drivers of the lowest eligible ages. It was adopted because it was an easier change in the law to get adopted politically than raising the licencing age.

    • SlavOz on 09/09/2022 - 16:48

      Doesn't that mean we should set the license age at 45 to be extra safe?

      • GordonD on 09/09/2022 - 17:00
        +4

        The effect starts to diminish at 21 and has pretty much gone altogether by 25. Somewhere in about that age range our brains reach maturity and are capable of responsible decisions.

        Road safety statistics show our forebears were wise to set the age of adulthood at 21. And how stupid it was to lower it to 18.

        • SlavOz on 09/09/2022 - 20:20
          +1

          I agree <25 is still developing and not really capable of making responsible decisions yet (not without their ego getting in the way).

          I'd be all for raising the driving age but then we'd also have to raise the age of consent, marriage, military transcription, criminal liability etc. No point telling 21 year olds they can die in our wars or choose who to marry, but driving is too dangerous.

          (For reference, the age of sexual consent is 16 - almost 10 years below your ideal responsibility age).

          • buckster on 09/09/2022 - 22:50
            +1

            @SlavOz: I'm not sure the military uses transcription much anymore

            • miwahni on 10/09/2022 - 01:10
              +1

              @buckster: And conscription ended in the early 70s (salutes Gough)

              • SlavOz on 10/09/2022 - 11:11

                @miwahni: It didn't end. We just don't have a need for it anymore so the government pretends its not on the table.

                You really think if war broke out, they wouldn't force our young men to go out and die? Hahahaha

          • RefusdClassification on 11/09/2022 - 07:39

            @SlavOz: Don't forget to raise the voting age, smoking age and drinking age.

    • 900dollaridoos on 12/09/2022 - 09:59

      1/4 of road deaths have drivers over the BAC limit. We should just ban alcohol all together then right?

  • spackbace on 09/09/2022 - 16:40
    +9

    My first thought was, that's like solving the gender pay gap by taking women out of the workforce. No pay for women = no pay gap¡!

    Surprise!

    ☑women
    ☐lgbtq
    ☐inferior drivers
    ☐fat people
    ☐MSM
    ☐doctors and nurses being bad
    ☐anti mask/lockdown/covid
    ☐other

    • SBOB on 09/09/2022 - 16:45
      +1

      Cliche outrage :)

    • buckster on 09/09/2022 - 22:51
      +3

      You'll get SlavOz bingo another day, I'm sure of it

  • Donaldhump on 09/09/2022 - 16:52

    why not do simple rules on P's

    like can only drive 4 cyclinder cars
    can have no passengers
    can only drive to and from work

    • Euphemistic on 09/09/2022 - 18:51
      +3

      They’ve tried getting p platers to not drive high power cars. Problem is even a small hatchback now has enough power to kill all too quickly.

    • [Deactivated] on 10/09/2022 - 09:50

      Because you only hear about the bad P platers, just like you only hear about the bad drivers in general. The vast majority of P platers drive safely and do not kill their mates, the percentage that do will do so regardless of the rules, because if they won't follow speed limits or drinking restrictions, why would they follow even more rules?

      there are already restrictions for red P platers, like passenger restrictions for people in certain age ranges. restricting their driving in general is not a sensible option, all it's going to do is raise the accident statistics for people who have full licenses, as people with recently acquired full licenses will have much less practise than they used to have.

      • Donaldhump on 12/09/2022 - 10:41
        +1

        males 18-26 are the most likely to kill themselves in general hence why life insurance in super is high for this demographic.
        i have been there myself drove like and idiot, restricting passengers and vehicle size (as they do with bikes) is sensible.

        thats why they do this with motorbikes. to many new riders used to go get 1000 cc bikes and kill themselves, practicing on smaller sizes makes them more prepared.

        • [Deactivated] on 13/09/2022 - 04:17

          passengers are already restricted for red P platers, if this guy was on his red plates, he wouldn't have been allowed to have any of those passengers

          the thing is, in this accident, the only one actually wearing a seatbelt was the driver, so in this case, the females are just as likely to kill themselves in an accident due to risky behaviour, they are all at fault for not wearing seat belts and not asking to get out of the car when the driver started behaving dangerously, the driver is the most to blame, but his passengers chose to get in, not wear their seat belts, and stay when he started recording himself on snapchat swerving at 90 km/h

          i actually sort of agree with you about restricting vehicle size, but i'm not sure how much it would help in this day and age, as even modern hatchbacks are incredibly fast. anything from the last 15 years or so, which is what most people will get, will be more than capable of reaching speed and reaching it quickly. even my 20 year old hatchback is capable of quite a bit of speed

          i don't agree with discriminating based on sex, if you are going to discriminate, do it based on age (for driving).

          • tonka on 13/09/2022 - 11:40

            @[Deactivated]: Those passengers were minors though, so under supervision, the driver was the adult.

    • Roney on 10/09/2022 - 16:59
      +1

      and drive Lada without 3rd and 4th gear

    • Zondor on 12/09/2022 - 11:43
      +1

      The 0.1% shouldn't spoil it for the majority.

      • Donaldhump on 12/09/2022 - 12:10

        you could say that about airline security but it is that way
        the vast majority of 18-26 males pay higher insurance in their super because minority are idiots, its life

        • Zondor on 12/09/2022 - 12:20

          Paying a tad extra premiums and gutting their work opportunities/independents is totally different though.

          • Donaldhump on 12/09/2022 - 12:24

            @Zondor: how is my suggestion cutting their work opp?

            like can only drive 4 cyclinder cars (or if need more for work ute only use for work purposes)
            can have no passengers
            can only drive to and from work

  • bobbified on 09/09/2022 - 17:03
    +4

    We need to ban driving altogether. And then when people fall over and hit their heads while walking on the road, ban walking too.

    • cookie2 on 09/09/2022 - 18:43

      Regulate helmets for anyone walking in public. And kneepads and hivis clothing. And fine people that don't. /s

    • tonka on 10/09/2022 - 13:05

      Ban young people driving for recreation. Allegedly, the driver in question decided to start having fun, ie using the car as a toy.
      And you know what, when people start falling over, they do stop them from walking. Go visit a dementia ward, you'll need a PIN code to get out..

  • USER DC on 09/09/2022 - 17:48
    +1

    just another money grab from government is what you are inviting for, aka you pay higher $$ on P license (which is more expensive that full license)

    So no thanks

  • sjj89 on 09/09/2022 - 17:49
    +5

    The government aren’t proposing anything around this.

    So 30% of your post is moot.

    And the rest is just reacting to a click bait article.

    • SBOB on 09/09/2022 - 17:58
      +5

      So out of character for them….

    • SlavOz on 09/09/2022 - 18:24
      -3

      The government doesnt propose - they implement. None of their rules are based on proposals or concensus. What they do is consult their infallible umber-human experts on ideas, and then usually make those ideas into law.

      So when you've got these beuaracrats pumping up ideas in the media, it only takes one stupid government employee out of the millions out there to take it seriously and make it happen.

      • Ughhh on 09/09/2022 - 18:41
        +8

        And you're doing your part to fast-track these by falling for the bait and spreading/advertising the idea on forums for free?

        • SlavOz on 10/09/2022 - 12:21

          Alternative perspective: I'm raising awareness so that people know what's potentially on the horizon and not mindlessly accept it like we know Ozbargain will do if/when it happens.

          Can't wait for SBOB to be like: "if the government said it, it must be perfect, how dare you question their supreme wisdom!"

          • SBOB on 10/09/2022 - 12:30
            +2

            @SlavOz: Find one time I've said that quote or marginally close to it?

            Honestly, you couldn't identify centralist views if one smacked you in the head with a slavoz cliche post checklist….

          • Ughhh on 10/09/2022 - 12:47
            +3

            @SlavOz: So If I wrote an email to the guardian, propossing that the gov needs to build complaining booths nation wide, to cater to people who need assistance with their mental health. And they write an article about it.
            Are you going to mindlessly accept it like it's going to happen 100%, then help spread/advertise it for me? The more people that read the article/my idea, the more likely I'm going to get support.

            How to generate $$$ in articles : write something that will trigger and outrage slavvy, he'll provide free advertising and sharing. Everyone makes fun of the kardashians, but at least they know to charge big money for advertising.

  • Drakesy on 09/09/2022 - 17:51
    +2

    Lol
    1 person suggested this and the Guardian turned it into policy in the same article.

    Clickbait crap, i thought the Guardian was above this.

    • Canberralad92 on 11/09/2022 - 11:28
      +1

      At least your not old mate who took the time to write it out on ozb lol.

  • tonka on 09/09/2022 - 18:57
    -1

    I have wondered if male children should just be kicked in the nuts until they are risk adverse before they are teens.

    Mostly the community needs to re-inforce, If you tailgate you have no skills, if you speed you have no skills, if you wind up your gears you have no skills, if you burn any rubber you have no skills.
    Educate young people about Peacocking so they become a bit self aware and maybe hold their peers a bit more accountable.

    • spackbace on 09/09/2022 - 19:28
      +3

      Or more endorsement of legal activities

      Blue light drags, for instance. Let them really test what their car can/can't do on the strip rather than at the traffic lights

      • tonka on 09/09/2022 - 20:30

        Reminds me of the Spanish Bull. Successfully removed 10 idiots from the gene pool this year.

        But maybe a variation on your idea, anyone caught hooning has to spend 5000 hours on a boring driving simulation, make em drive until they hate it. I spent so much time on the M5 in Sydney that I don't understand how people drive for fun.

    • Euphemistic on 09/09/2022 - 20:07
      +1

      The ‘pinky’ speeding campaign was relatively successful. Problem is that these messages don’t seem to stand the test of time. The message works for a bit then we move on.

      It’s hard to convince someone that doing something risky isn’t fun, because the Adrenalin hit you get from pushing the limits is such a buzz. Some people are just wired to be Adrenalin junkies. my go to stress relief from a bad day’s work used to be to go and thrash a mountain bike around some trails for a bit. best way to de-stress was to ride fast and push the boundaries. Exercise endorphins and a hit or 3 of Adrenalin.

      Been there, done that. Still do it a bit, but I’ve matured and know better when it’s not appropriate (it also hurts a lot more and I take a lot longer to heal)

  • tonka on 09/09/2022 - 19:02

    Will be nearly as effective if you ban them from having anyone younger or of a similar age in the car until over 21. We all know it's way less fun to hoon on your own.

  • SF3 on 09/09/2022 - 20:24
    +3

    Just make everyone below 21, to rev limit below 3000rpm. OP should be very familiar with this.

  • try2bhelpful on 09/09/2022 - 21:03
    +1

    Don’t feed the troll.

  • jizmo on 09/09/2022 - 22:07

    Bring back the Aussie dream. A house 2 cars a boat with a shed and a pool outback.
    Dad the bread winner sole income earner While mum brings ups the kids and teaches them family values before dad takes them fishing and camping on the weekend.
    Heaven forbid a Woman working for a career .That's stealing work and dissolving family values.

    Ask your great great grandad about that depending on your age

    • buckster on 09/09/2022 - 22:52
      +1

      Do you know a good place to get a seance done?

  • miwahni on 10/09/2022 - 01:24
    +1

    NZ has / had a curfew system in place for all holders of restricted licences regardless of gender - they can't get behind the wheel between 10pm and 5am unless they have a supervisor with them, and without a supervisor they cannot carry passengers. This raises problems though for shift workers who work unfriendly hours when public transport isn't running. I guess every possible "solution" to the problem just creates more problems of its own.
    Can't blame people for trying to save lives though. As per this article https://www.savvy.com.au/media-releases/australian-car-accid… 17 to 25-year-olds are the second-highest age bracket impacted by road deaths,and young men are more likely to be involved in a crash. Looks like they're doing the discriminating themselves.
    40 to 64 year olds had the most road deaths, but probably represent the majority of road users.

    • SlavOz on 10/09/2022 - 11:09
      -2

      Seems like every government is doing things to save lives, except you know…implemenring better driver training.

      Current licensing system is a joke. You go on a 20 minute drive, park the car - congratulations you've been deemed a safe and competent driver. No obstacle courses, no safety training etc.

      We should have simulated environments that drivers need to go through when doing their driving test. Make them drive through heavy rain, loud noises around them, bumpy conditions, present sudden unexpected hazards that they need to react to. The number 1 cause of accidents is inexperience.

      • AlanHB on 11/09/2022 - 08:26
        +3

        So I'll guess you don't know about the alternative log book route which has been available in multiple states for around 20 years.

        Do you actually research anything?

      • Euphemistic on 11/09/2022 - 08:35
        +1

        Must be awhile since you your licence. Latest journey in NSW is 120hr including a proportion of night hours. Have to do a hazard perception test. Can do a 1 day safe driving course (including a drive with an instructor) that gives you 20hrs worth. Can get a free 1hr driving instructor lesson.

        Sure, you could cheat the hours a bit, but most get it pretty close

    • TEER3X on 10/09/2022 - 17:37

      That's easily solved, just make exceptions for work/emergencies where the driver must prove either if requested

  • Myone888 on 10/09/2022 - 07:51
    -2

    Latest case where 4 of his mates killed in p drivers car. He shud be prosecuted and sent to jail. I agree in raising the age for males as their driving are too aggressive.
    Insurance cover for vehicles shud be mandatory. At the moment it’s not compulsory.

    • SlavOz on 10/09/2022 - 11:04
      +1

      Would you agree with raising the age of sexual consent for women if teen pregnancies became too high?

      • tonka on 10/09/2022 - 11:52
        +4

        I know you get confused about women, but if you wanna harp on about male equality then you should find you own statememt here offensive.

        • SlavOz on 10/09/2022 - 12:19
          -1

          One might say the same thing about men - how can anyone discuss equality while outright discriminating against men, such as this proposal seeks to do?

          I don't think it's any more offensive to suggest women can't have sex until 21 than it is to suggest men can't drive until 21. Our consent laws are just a social construct and by most metrics don't really do anything to protect people. They're simply a generous middle ground between child safety and practicality.

          • tonka on 10/09/2022 - 13:15
            +3

            @SlavOz: I don't have a problem with discrimination when it's backed by common sense. Is it sexist not to provide period products to young men? Males are 21 times as likely to be in jail, it's just statistics and hard to argue against them without looking like a fool.
            Males are 21 times as likely to commit a crime, probably even more likely to engage in risky behavior. It's not logical to devote resources to solving a problem with women that doesn't really exist at any scale.
            The problem with your assertion that women shouldn't have sex until 21, is sex is a shared activity and parenthood is something where consequences are a shared responsibility.

            • ozhunter on 10/09/2022 - 13:42

              @tonka:

              Is it sexist not to provide period products to young men?

              Do you think it's sexist for there to be no urinals in the women's toilets? How about single sex schools, gyms, toilets?

              • tonka on 10/09/2022 - 14:03
                +2

                @ozhunter: Yes, it is sexist, did you miss my first sentence when I said 'I don't have a problem with discrimination when it's backed by common sense'. But I thought one example was enough for the average reader.

                • ozhunter on 10/09/2022 - 14:18

                  @tonka: You didn't seem to have to have an answer when asked "Would you agree with raising the age of sexual consent for women if teen pregnancies became too high?"

                  • tonka on 10/09/2022 - 14:42
                    +1

                    @ozhunter: I don't care about teen pregnancies, the people I know that had them, now in middle age have led full lives and don't regret them in the slightest.
                    I actually think it's ridiculous to compare teen pregnancies with teen fatalities and showing the values here to be questionable.
                    And when the age of consent is 16 and people are having sex at 14 it's a moot point anyway.

                    • SlavOz on 10/09/2022 - 14:48

                      @tonka:

                      I don't care about teen pregnancies

                      Maybe some people don't care about car accidents. It's all subjective.

                      I know plenty of people who've been involved in crashes and have gone on to live full, happy lives.

                      Anecdotes aside, car accidents cause a serious issue for society. So do teen pregnancies. Your personal feelings or experiences are irrelevant. The statistics are more important.

                      • tonka on 10/09/2022 - 14:56
                        +4

                        @SlavOz: If personal feelings or experiences are irrelevant can you wander off then.

            • SlavOz on 10/09/2022 - 13:43
              -2

              @tonka: Yes but men can have sex during their teen years without being at risk of a teenage pregnancy. A 16 year old boy could sleep with 20 year old woman. No matter what happens, a teen pregnancy is impossible.

              If a teenage girl has sex, she's putting herself and society at a serious risk of teen pregnancy. Why should we allow their undeveloped minds to make decisions that could have lifelong consequences for themselves and their community?

              As you say, the risks are different for men and women, so nothing wrong with having tailored laws to reflect those differences. While we're at it, men should get more sick days under the Fair Work act, since they're statistically way more likely to die or become sick. Call it the male equivalent of maternity leave.

      • spackbace on 10/09/2022 - 13:15
        +1

        Why just women?

        Pretty sure they can't create babies by having sex with themselves…

        In the same light, you could say men can't have sex until a certain age and voila, no teen pregnancies

        (in b4 you get sex and gender mixed up)

        • SlavOz on 10/09/2022 - 13:38
          -2

          you could say men can't have sex until a certain age and voila, no teen pregnancies

          But teenage boys can have sex without any risk of a teen pregnancy. All they have to do is sleep with an older woman.

          If a teenage girl has sex, regardless of her partner's age, there's most likely a teen pregnancy coming.

          Therefore, if we raise the age consent for women up to 21, teen pregnancies would drastically reduce.

          Raising the age for men would just be unnecessary - the same risk doesn't apply to them.

          • tonka on 10/09/2022 - 14:09
            +2

            @SlavOz: It perpetuates the problem of birth control being perceived as the females responsibility.
            btw. It would also open the floodgates of statutory rape with males not enjoying the protection of also being underage.

            • SlavOz on 10/09/2022 - 14:57

              @tonka: Sure, and by raising the age of driving for men, there would be at least dozen unintended consequences as well. Men are already more likely to drop out of school or become homeless so they need to be able to drive.

              But why should I have compassion for women if you don't have compassion for men? It's a 2 way street. I'm so tired of women complaining about their problems yet being completely oblivious to the what the opposite sex has to go through.

              • tonka on 10/09/2022 - 16:27

                @SlavOz: I'm not complaining about men though. I'm complaining because you seem to feel it's OK to denigrate all women because you disagree with the actions of some. Yet you don't think all men should be held accountable for their actions as a group.
                If male teenagers want to kill themselves driving, I'm actually OK with it, let's just put in some parameters where they can't destroy other peoples families, let them paddock bash.
                How about one instance of dangerous driving and no license till 30. Driving with no license then only a restricted license for work until 40. Same for both genders, lots of education, problem fixed.

                • SlavOz on 10/09/2022 - 19:57

                  @tonka:

                  you seem to feel it's OK to denigrate all women because you disagree with the actions of some.

                  Are we denigrating 12 year olds by stopping them from having sex? No. Minors need to be protected. A 16 year old isn't a woman - she's a child.

                  The age of consent was set with very little scientific concensus, it's simply a convenient middle ground. But it's quite clear that it hasnt worked out well as teen pregnancy remains a big issue and it's ruining lives.

                  But if you think it's unfair to treat women differently to men, then you can't possibly advocate for men to have tougher licensing restrictions.

                  • tonka on 10/09/2022 - 20:22

                    @SlavOz: You're assuming we haven't seen previous commentary from you about removing women's rights and are able to take these remarks from you in that context.

                    • SlavOz on 10/09/2022 - 20:26

                      @tonka: There is no such thing as women's rights, just like there are no men's rights, Asian rights, tall people's rights etc. There are just rights that we all enjoy as humans and citizens. I have never suggested women should be excluded from that.

                      Which right have I advocated taking away from women?

          • buckster on 10/09/2022 - 23:47

            @SlavOz: You seem pretty obsessed with this teen boy sex business. Kinda ick

            • SlavOz on 10/09/2022 - 23:49
              -2

              @buckster: Wait till you hear about sex ed in schools…

      • AustriaBargain on 10/09/2022 - 15:31
        +1

        No, because we could just give them free contraception and laws won't stop horny teenagers from having sex anyway.

  • tabitha731 on 10/09/2022 - 08:36
    -2

    Ive always thought that the legal age to drive should be raised to 25, especially for those who have an address in the western, southern suburbs of Sydney or even more remote areas such as where the recent accident happened with the 5 children. Teenagers these days do not have the maturity level to make the appropriate decisions to handle a vehicle on public roads

    • SlavOz on 10/09/2022 - 11:03

      Then we should also raise the age for other big decisions like sexual consent, marriage, military, working etc.

      Can't have it both ways.

    • Zondor on 12/09/2022 - 11:46

      You know people need a drivers license to properly enter the workforce right?

      Not everywhere is syd/melbourne

  • saltypete on 10/09/2022 - 08:40

    Parents job is to be real about their kids, and their friends and decide if they carry, or become a passenger for a few years.
    Did the parents of the 14 yo give permission travel in that arrangement, or the drivers parents say OK to carrying 5 others in the Ute?
    My kids had their first years driving under this sort of regime. Does anyone else do this?

    • [Deactivated] on 10/09/2022 - 09:54
      +1

      one of the girls in the accident actually texted her father asking for permission, but he was in hospital and did not see the text until it was too late, she went without his permission, which he claims he wouldn't have given if he saw the text

    • SlavOz on 10/09/2022 - 13:59

      The driver is a legal adult so he doesn't need parent's permission for anything. He has legal right to make decisions on his own.

      That being said, most people inherit driving habits and lessons from their parents, so perhaps it's time to start looking at how this kid was raised and who taught him to drive. If there's a history of problems where the parents knew the boy was prone to speeding, they should have some punishment too.

      • saltypete on 11/09/2022 - 09:23

        Parental permission and legal permission are somewhat different things.
        If they live in your house they have an obligation to give consideration to your views. And that obligation is stronger if kids are involved. particularly when it is about their safety. I dont know if the driver owned the vehicle, but if it was a family car he probably would have needed permission to use it and this would be conditional- hopefully…
        As per the other response parental permission a thing, as it should be.
        Legal requirements are by nature a bare universal minimum, not a guide to life.

  • OZBargainer in SA on 10/09/2022 - 10:00

    If I heard correctly, that driver had lost his license twice. Loss of license should be longer, especially for a P plater.
    And never mind charges of "driving dangerously" - it should be manslaughter.

  • 2esc on 10/09/2022 - 10:00

    99% of young people dont have accidents. Better training is needed but society needs to slow down. There are plenty of people young and older not speeding but going too quick for the conditions and im not talking about the weather or road conditions there as plenty of minor accidents that could have been avoided.

    Maybe we need to be tougher on people who have a certain number of accidents even minor ones lets say once you get to 3 you lose your license for 12 months. Go over the speed limit by more than 20 lets double or triple the demerits. Lets make it zero alchol for driving. Make it equal for all members of the driving community

  • 82norm on 10/09/2022 - 10:15
    +1

    Implementing rules won’t prevent these accidents. You can’t stop people or teenagers from doing illegal, irresponsible things. Laws rarely deter people who generally have a total disregard of societal norms, mores or values, they’re thinking is not at the same wavelength of most ‘normal’ people.

  • Willy Beamish on 10/09/2022 - 16:54

    So now no one gives a (profanity) about covid they just printing the dumbest shit they can think of again.

  • Herbse on 10/09/2022 - 17:38
    +1

    Rubbish rage- bait article. Doesn't say anywhere who is "proposing" this, is it the government? A department that the government actually listens to?
    Or is it being proposed by Karen from down the road?

    Completely void of any facts or likelihood regarding the main basis of the article. Designed purely for people to rage about and share on social media.

  • TEER3X on 10/09/2022 - 17:39
    +1

    Just need auto driving cars, there are plenty of crap drivers that aren't anywhere near this age bracket

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