This was posted 2 years 2 months 22 days ago, and might be an out-dated deal.

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[Pre Order] Framework Laptop DIY Edition with 12th Gen Intel CPU from $1,279 Delivered @ Framework

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[Pre Order] Framework Laptop DIY Edition with 12th Gen Intel CPU from $1,279 Delivered @ Framework
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Lkillingtime on 02/09/2022 - 08:40 frame.work (1406 clicks)
Last edited 02/09/2022 - 12:02 by 1 other user

Pre-built Edition with 12th Gen intel CPU from $1,639 delivered
11th Gen Intel CPU from $1,079 delivered — not yet available

Oz-RRP etc.

Framework laptop is a bargain because you can easily fix broken parts (screen replacement for $279, new battery $95) and instead of upgrading the entire laptop, you can just replace the motherboard.

They are highly customizable.

There are better laptops out there, especially considering the screen, however this will be suitable for many.

I only posted the minimum price as there are many options.

You don't even have to buy a whole laptop, you could buy the mainboard to turn into a tablet.

Linus talks about it, although he is a shareholder https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYc922ntnKM

First post, please be nice

Edit:
Got an email this morning, copying here as you may not be able to see it on the website:
"Today, the Framework Laptop is available for pre-ordering in Australia, with shipments starting in October. Launching in Australia continues our global expansion as we work to reach as much of the world as possible with our mission to remake consumer electronics. We now have ordering open in: Australia, US, Canada, Ireland, Austria, Netherlands, UK, Germany, and France.

To place your pre-order, you only need to put down a $100 fully-refundable deposit. The configurations available in Australia remain the same, with three pre-built options with Windows 11 and the Framework Laptop DIY Edition that can be configured with up to 4TB of storage and 64GB of memory, and no OS pre-loaded so that you can bring your favorite one. We’ll be opening up the Framework Marketplace in Australia around the time laptop shipments begin. In the meantime, you can sign up to get notified when Marketplace items come into stock.

If you’re outside of the regions we currently support, you can help us prioritize our international rollout by registering your interest on our locales page. We received a huge number of requests to expand into Australia, which emphasized the importance of opening up ordering there.

For more detail on the recently launched Framework Laptop (12th Gen Intel® Core™), we continue to see amazing press coverage and reviews, like these from Luke Miani, Ars Technica, and PC Mag. "

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closed Comments

  • mikelp on 02/09/2022 - 08:45
    +5

    What kind of bargain?

    • killingtime on 02/09/2022 - 08:46
      +1

      Total cost of ownership type bargain. You could fix it/replace motherboard going forward, so your yearly cost on Laptops is lower.

      • limucat on 02/09/2022 - 08:50
        +2

        Cool, so you can replace every part (CPU, etc) just Almost like a PC?

      • Pikaloo on 02/09/2022 - 08:51
        +1

        You can buy parts from aliexpress/taobao using superbuy very easily to repair broken laptops.

        Furthermore, Australian warranty is pretty good. This probably ends up costing a lot more.

        • Aureus on 02/09/2022 - 10:10
          +6

          Sometimes that is true, but you can't replace your 11th gen board with a 12th gen can you?

          Framework isn't for me, but I would love if more manufacturers went down this path. It would definitely reduce e-waste.

          • Pikaloo on 02/09/2022 - 10:13
            +1

            @Aureus: Usually when I upgrade from gen X to another gen CPU I just buy a new one and sell the old so there isn't really any waste.

      • Pikaloo on 02/09/2022 - 08:56

        Razer replaced my battery + screen outside of warranty 2 years later I believe for free. Will Framework offer the same or will they tell you to buy the parts because they sell it?

        • Grish on 02/09/2022 - 10:54
          -1

          The latter 100% and they'll deliver the news all enthusiastically and woke. You'll be irate by then.

          • cerealJay on 02/09/2022 - 17:07
            +1

            @Grish: The question is, why are you so irate? Multiple posts frothing at the mouth about this laptop. Calling it "woke" is ridiculous.

            The person you replied to got a free replacement battery and screen for their Razer laptop outside of warranty. Is that what you expect with your tech products? Free service beyond the warranty period? My question would be, why did their battery and screen need replacing after only 2 years? Perhaps Razer should stick to making mouse pads.

            This Framework laptop simply brings the modularity of desktop to the form factor of a laptop. For some, this is extremely valuable. Others like you who just buy a new Dell, won't be interested.

            Details of this laptop look good. Things like being able to swap the USB ports from one side to the other is clever. I like the expansion cards and what's in the pipeline:

            "We have a variety of Expansion Cards in development including high-end headphone amps, Arduino-compatible microcontrollers, and more. We’re also opening the spec and sharing reference designs to enable partners and the community to help grow the Expansion Card ecosystem.

            That is exciting. It's cool, it's valuable. Opening up the spec and genuinely supplying a laptop that isn't a ticking e-waste time-bomb, is worth more than a piece of closed junk that's difficult or impossible to open with a screwdriver.

      • dogsryummy on 02/09/2022 - 08:58
        -3

        Delusional

      • Grish on 02/09/2022 - 11:31
        +1

        Let me get this straight, you're saying it's only a bargain if something breaks and you have to repair it yourself?

        So if you buy one, it's better to drop it on day one so you can kick-off the TCO bargain.

        Unbelievable.

        • Grish on 02/09/2022 - 11:51
          -1

          Gotta love getting down voted for stating facts.

  • PeppaCat on 02/09/2022 - 08:49
    +1

    they won’t ship to AU

    • killingtime on 02/09/2022 - 08:50
      +19

      This post is to share they are starting to ship to AU, sorry to be fair I just edited my post to reflect this, dont downvote the guy

      • Lord Fart Bucket on 02/09/2022 - 10:04
        +2

        So, it's an announcement, not a deal.
        Forums seem like a great place for this.

  • tanksinatra on 02/09/2022 - 08:49
    +2

    Waiting for the AMD version

  • pw2002au on 02/09/2022 - 08:52
    +2

    This is without storage, os, ram etc… I like the concept (especially if they offered a recycle / trade in program for older parts that you upgraded) but I definitely think tco is waaaay higher than purchasing a new laptop every 2/3 years…

    • killingtime on 02/09/2022 - 08:54
      -2

      You can strip it down but usually the lowest pricing includes all parts to boot the machine (Linux OS is free), if you check US store.

      • Grish on 02/09/2022 - 11:47

        Last I checked you needed RAM to boot a machine, and this doesn't come with RAM

        So no, the lowest pricing doesn't include all parts to boot the machine.

        Heck, you can't even charge the laptop with your "bargain" price.

  • dr-collossus on 02/09/2022 - 08:56

    I just bought a new laptop, and would 100% have gotten one of these if it wasn't for the screen size. Almost certainly for my next one though.

  • VYCanisMajoris on 02/09/2022 - 08:58
    +1

    This thing with an AMD chip would be extremely good. As it stands, the 12th gen chips are a regression in battery life and fan noise

  • PiperDan on 02/09/2022 - 08:58
    +3

    A great idea…..until years later when you go to replace the battery and realize the company no longer exists.

  • CodeXD on 02/09/2022 - 08:58
    +18

    Wait this is a joke right? $1279 for a very very barebone 12th Gen chassis.

    You do not get:

    • Storage
    • RAM
    • Windows
    • Power Adapter
    • Any input/output connection to your laptop (type-C costs $15 and you NEED this to even charge your laptop, not included)

    It is a good concept, but the cost is not justifiable as a deal/bargain.

    • dogsryummy on 02/09/2022 - 09:02
      +14

      OP has been sucked into the marketing hype, the main purpose of buying a Framework laptop isn't to save money but for sustainability/right to repair reasons. The two things do not necessarily go hand-in-hand.

      • Grish on 02/09/2022 - 11:36
        +2

        OP has been sucked into the marketing hype

        This.

    • TThomas on 02/09/2022 - 09:28
      +5

      I agree the chassis can cost as much as a completed build. I would love if this idea was a practical purchase however it seems they are overcharging for every element if you did want to configure a better build as well.

      $629 for a 2TB WD SN850…
      $256 for 32GB of DDR4 memory

      It's a great concept, I just don't feel their concept should allow them to significantly overcharge for their product.

      • dogsryummy on 02/09/2022 - 09:30
        +4

        They're making hella bank off the backs of people like OP

        • eug on 02/09/2022 - 09:39
          +4

          I don't think you realise how much it costs to develop a product like this. It isn't just a rebadged laptop from Clevo where all the R&D is already done. Something has to pay for the development which is why it isn't cheap.

          • dogsryummy on 02/09/2022 - 09:42
            +4

            @eug: Sure, but we're on OzBargain, not PayingForACompany'sR&DCostsBargain. I negged this deal not because I think this laptop is bad but because it's not a deal. I don't deny the R&D costs that went into this machine, I'm just saying this should be in the forums instead.

            • eug on 02/09/2022 - 09:47
              +5

              @dogsryummy: I was replying directly to your comment where you said Framework are making a lot of money off people like OP. I don't think it's a bargain either (compared to a laptop by a huge company like Lenovo, or an ODM like Clevo), but I also don't think they're making a lot of money - they just have a lot of costs to recoup.

              • dogsryummy on 02/09/2022 - 10:07
                +1

                @eug: Apologies, yeah I totally agree

                My original comment was admittedly a dig at OP and his rose-tinted glasses

          • krisspy on 02/09/2022 - 13:10

            @eug: I doubt it costs them all too much, they're not reinventing architecture here, just a standardised mobo layout with ram and ssd's not soldered on. The expansion ports are basically type-c converters to whatever port you need.

            • eug on 02/09/2022 - 13:22

              @krisspy:

              I doubt it costs them all too much, they're not reinventing architecture here, just a standardised mobo layout with ram and ssd's not soldered on.

              Standardised? To what standard?

              You need to hire a team to design everything from the motherboard, the housings, get protoypes made, tested, redesigned, tested again, run a warehouse with a logistics team, run the website, run a support team, pay for marketing, deal with suppliers and factories, etc.

              The expansion ports are basically type-c converters to whatever port you need.

              They still need to be designed and tested.

              I don't think you realise how much money is involved in building a custom product like that. Small-volume production is always going to cost more. You can't compare them to companies who have achieved economies of scale and are selling so many devices that they can afford to make smaller margins as they have much higher volumes.

              LTT finally released their screwdriver which took 3 years to release. You'd think something as simple as a screwdriver should only take a month or two, but there's a lot more to it than just making a design on a computer and sending it to a factory.

      • Pikaloo on 02/09/2022 - 10:11

        I thought the same thing on the SSD pricing. But having another look, if you look at Clevo, Metabox they charge more for the 2TB WD SN850. Framework is a bit cheaper so gotto give that to them.

      • Aureus on 02/09/2022 - 10:14
        +3

        Just don't buy your RAM and SSD from them..

        For comparison Dell chargers ~$600 to upgrade from 1TB to 2TB on their XPS laptops.

  • ubcool on 02/09/2022 - 09:03
    +1

    remember the phone that was supposed to be like this ? never gonna work

    • Sleeqb7 on 02/09/2022 - 09:25
      +4

      The difference being this laptop brand has already been operating successfully for a few years in regions other than ours.
      Unlike the modular phone which I don't recall launching a product, although I could be wrong.

      • dogsryummy on 02/09/2022 - 09:28
        +2

        Framework started selling their first laptop in July 2021, I don't know about you but that's not "years" to me.

        Are you confident that 5, 10 years from now you'll be able to reliably source a battery replacement for your Framework laptop?

        • Sleeqb7 on 02/09/2022 - 09:41

          My bad, I thought it was more like 2020.
          But frankly, yes. With the hype around the company I think there is a good chance it will still be kicking in 5-10 years.

          Don't get me wrong, I'm not buying one. My 2016 second hand laptop is perfectly fine, but I think this company may actually continue to exist well into the future.
          Would I buy a Lenovo rather than a Framework? Also yes. Still, I think it'll be around.

          • dogsryummy on 02/09/2022 - 10:12
            +2

            @Sleeqb7: Your use of the word "hype" is interesting to me because I've always associated that word with short-term success and publicity, not necessarily long-term, steady growth. But time will tell.

            • Sleeqb7 on 02/09/2022 - 10:16

              @dogsryummy: Fair. However the hype is backed up by a product that seems genuinely decent. Hype with a dud product would be short term success, but hype around a good product can be a winner.

              Could be I'm just hopeful because I'm a supporter of the right to repair movement and think that more of the industry should go that way.

      • krisspy on 02/09/2022 - 09:41

        Project Ara. Atleast google knew it wasn't gonna work and canned it.

        • Sleeqb7 on 02/09/2022 - 10:18

          I was actually thinking of Phonebloks. Same story.

    • JerraJones on 02/09/2022 - 10:47

      This has already launched and has its upgrade path (11th to 12th gen) successfully launched too.

  • Tollery on 02/09/2022 - 09:03
    +7

    For anyone who don't understand this post

    This laptop is 90% upgradable with ease, this means every year (or whenever) you can upgrade CPU, WIFI card, USB ports if you wanted too. I think the only thing you can't upgrade is the screen yet.

    A laptop that doesn't go out of date therefore you won't have to buy a new one

    https://au.pcmag.com/laptops/88378/framework-laptop

    • dogsryummy on 02/09/2022 - 09:07
      +6

      It doesn't go out as date, as long as you keep throwing money at it.

      It costs between $699 and $1639 for a motherboard upgrade. How is that more cost-effective than buying a new laptop when the time comes for an upgrade?

      People looking into Framework for the primary purpose of saving money are kidding themselves.

      • Tollery on 02/09/2022 - 09:09
        -1

        Thanks to the aussie dollar.

        Motherboard does come with a CPU chip but i get the cost factor.

        • dogsryummy on 02/09/2022 - 09:13
          +3

          That's a pisspoor excuse, the i7-1280P motherboard still costs 1049 USD. Considering how much relatively cheaper laptops and tech in general are in the US, that's even more egregious. You can pay 899 USD for a full M1 MacBook Air for Christ's sake.

          Motherboard does come with a CPU chip but i get the cost factor.

          If not for the CPU chip, what else would it come with?? It's basically the only thing the motherboard DOES come with..

          • Tollery on 02/09/2022 - 09:54

            @dogsryummy: What else could it be? greed? only one of it's kind?

            I don't know why I'm defending frame.work.

            • dogsryummy on 02/09/2022 - 10:02

              @Tollery: Not necessarily greed, but because it's a relatively small company that hasn't yet attained full economies of scale, selling a unique product like you said, and they've got to make money somehow if their whole shtick is "you don't need to replace your laptop". It should be pretty obvious that selling a laptop that'll last a long time isn't exactly the most profitable venture, which is why they make their money off of replacement and upgrade parts. All of this is completely understandable - they've got employees to pay and mouths to feed.

              I think Framework is great, I just take issue with OP presenting them as a magic bullet that will cut your spending on laptops in half. Consider Framework as a Kickstarter project - buy their laptops because you support what they do, not because you want to save money.

  • thedean on 02/09/2022 - 09:14
    +4

    SO annoying, I had been waiting for this but ended up getting the refurb of the Dell Latitude instead.
    Hope people jump on this, a trend that's needed in the industry.

  • FireRunner on 02/09/2022 - 09:17
    +6

    I was considering posting this as a forum topic.
    While a great initiative, the prices are hard to justify.
    Also while the team is committed to long term support, the company may still fail and you’ll be stuck with no upgrade/repair options

    • Chandler on 02/09/2022 - 09:55

      you’ll be stuck with no upgrade/repair options

      They've made progress in open sourcing schematics and the like, so repair at least will definitely be an option, and a significantly more accessible one than any other manufacturer on the market.

      Even proper repair shops are lucky if they get get access to that level of detail for any laptops they service - especially Apple.

      • eug on 02/09/2022 - 09:59
        +3

        Even proper repair shops are lucky if they get get access to that level of detail for any laptops they service - especially Apple.

        It's amazing what the threat of legislation can do. Apple ended up giving (paid) access to a lot of parts and repair manuals with a few caveats. They're probably better than the competition now.

        • JerraJones on 02/09/2022 - 10:55
          +2

          Those caveats made the whole proposition piss poor. Repair shops still have to order parts for each phone individually after receiving a broken phone. Kind of pointless if someone has to wait 3 weeks for their phone to get repaired because Apple locks down components. Still no schematics.

          The self repair is also an absolute joke. They force you to use their own tools which are massive and overkill which makes their cost to you equivalent to just going to Apple directly and making them fix it.

          Legislation can't come soon enough.

          • eug on 02/09/2022 - 12:56

            @JerraJones:

            Those caveats made the whole proposition piss poor.

            Yup. But it's still better than the competition.

            The self repair is also an absolute joke. They force you to use their own tools

            They do? You can buy the tools to own, so I assume that means you can buy the spare parts without having to rent the tools again.

            which are massive and overkill

            Repairs can be done with more basic tools, but the tools they hire out are proper tools that will give repeated results.

            If their instructions just said "apply pressure to stick the new battery to the phone frame" and someone pushes too hard with their thumb and damages the internals of the lipo pouch, that'd probably be a lawsuit coming their way.

            So the lawyer-approved method would be to give official instructions that call for the use of a specific battery press that applies just the right amount of pressure in the right way.

            Legislation can't come soon enough.

            Yup, as long as it doesn't discourage innovation. If you're a smalltime inventor and spent two years of your own time and money developing a unique product and you're forced to immediately publish detailed schematics, PCB layouts, and assembly guides for it, that'll lower the barrier to entry for cheap clones that can work just as well as the original for just the cost of parts and assembly since the cloners don't have to recoup development costs.

        • superroach on 02/09/2022 - 11:54
          +2

          Their "paid" offering to do repairs is strategically done to be way more expensive in labour than it could be (needing to contact service online multiple times to change chip ownership, the refund process is convulted for old parts), with the sole intent to make it look like a good idea on paper.

          They still want you to throw your hands up and just buy a new machine though.

          • eug on 02/09/2022 - 12:41

            @superroach:

            Their "paid" offering to do repairs is strategically done to be way more expensive in labour than it could be (needing to contact service online multiple times to change chip ownership, the refund process is convulted for old parts), with the sole intent to make it look like a good idea on paper.

            Yup. But at least it can be done, which is a start. That's one step ahead of the competition. Samsung and Microsoft have started to do the same, but only with very limited parts and info.

      • freefall101 on 02/09/2022 - 11:08
        +3

        If Framework goes under the odds of a third party designing a new motherboard to fit into a failed product is slim to none. I imagine batteries and maybe screens will be an option but then both are available for laptops already, the whole point of this thing is upgradeability.

        Apple repairs are getting pretty good these days, they'll even rent you the tools to do it. It's designed so no one will actually want to do it, but it's possible - https://techcrunch.com/2022/08/22/apple-adds-select-macbooks…

        I suspect Framework will be a chicken and egg problem. No one will really trust them until they can show a laptop is able to and worth upgrading over 2-3 generations. By then I expect them to be broke.

        • Chandler on 02/09/2022 - 11:15
          +1

          That's why I only touched on repairs, as anyone with a soldering iron could replace some caps, ICs and the like (if they've got a steady hand…).

          Upgrades yes would require someone designing a new motherboard. But if they open source the complete design (which they may have done already - I haven't been following the Framework too closely), then anyone could take the design to any PCB manufacturer (i.e. JLPCB, PCBWay, etc) and get it made.

          • FireRunner on 02/09/2022 - 12:32
            +1

            @Chandler: I doubt anyone could actually design their own motherboard and have it printed. It's incredibly complicated. For example, I believe the PCIe traces need to be very closely matched in length otherwise the timing will be off and the whole thing won't work. Furthermore, I doubt you'll be able to just buy a single laptop CPU anywhere. I would also imagine trying to solder it on would be impossible without some expensive and probably specialised equipment

        • FireRunner on 02/09/2022 - 12:50
          +1

          The apple repair thing is a joke. It's there so they can say, look we provide an option so users can repair their devices. The fact that it costs more to do your own repair then it does to send it to be repaired by Apple makes it completely pointless

          • freefall101 on 02/09/2022 - 13:26

            @FireRunner: Absolutely, but repairability of Framework stuff is generally questionable too when it comes to pricing.

            New motherboard with a 1135G7 chip - $549US ($810AU)
            Brand new Intel NUC laptop with same chip - $900AU https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/717182

            Add in GST and we're at pretty close pricing. Yes, it comes down to volume, design, one is on sale, etc, but even Apple will repair your motherboard for less than the cost of buying one from Framework and doing it yourself. They have folded a massive amount of margin into their parts that barely make the whole repairable thing worthwhile.

  • Fuzor on 02/09/2022 - 09:20
    -7

    A quarter of the fee probably goes to Linus for "advisory". I don't listen to anything marketed from youtubers or celebrities. They should stick to only looking after themselves with just overpriced mouse pads and water bottles.

    • Chandler on 02/09/2022 - 13:09
      +2

      Framework was around long before Linus got involved…

  • Joz2988 on 02/09/2022 - 09:21

    I was waiting on them shipping to Oz as I like the idea. But the costs are just too high when u compare them to other laptops of the same speed.

  • wildweasel on 02/09/2022 - 09:22
    +1

    Not really a deal. Belongs in the forum.

  • Ryballs on 02/09/2022 - 09:39
    +1

    Cool concept but too expensive

  • kipps on 02/09/2022 - 09:42
    +2

    This isn't a bargain.

  • lhou021 on 02/09/2022 - 09:50
    +1

    I have been keeping an eye on this laptop
    good concept, but the price is not justifiable

    you can upgrade ram, ssd etc on a normal laptop if you picked the upgradable one with additional slots, you can get a decent Thinkpad E series or similar for ~1000 or lower
    For those that upgrade motherboard etc, this group is probably on a desktop already?

  • dogsryummy on 02/09/2022 - 09:53
    +5

    The long and short of it is, Framework is an awesome company with an awesome team behind it, their Framework laptop is a breath of fresh air in an industry steadily moving towards soldered components and increasingly difficult repairability. By all means buy a Framework laptop if you support what they stand for and want to help them succeed, in fact I'd encourage you to do so and also look into the right to repair legislation that's currently underway in the US.

    But don't buy one of their laptops to save money. Contrary to what they or their reviewers might be pushing, you will NOT save money in the long run going with a Framework laptop, and hence if your primary goal when buying a new device is to save money (nothing wrong with that, we're on OzBargain), this is not the right product for you. I consider it akin to a Kickstarter project - you pledge money to support creators and make ideas come to life, not to save money.

    Framework is many, many things, but being cost-effective unforunately isn't one of them. And it infuriates me to no end when people like OP try to make Framework out as something it's not.

    • netjock on 02/09/2022 - 11:15

      Problem seems to be standardisation.

      In the desktop arena ATX, mATX form factor really helped to standardise sizes and push down cost due to volume. Problem with laptops is all vendors have different parts (even if they use the same contract manufacturers).

      Motherboard being most expensive, defining size of motherboards and connectors would help (wishful thinking). Same goes for screens. Or mandatory dimm slot and not soldered on ram.

      Most other laptops have user replaceable parts like battery, SSD, ram (when there is slots) and screens.

  • Jaduqimon on 02/09/2022 - 10:00

    Gimmick.

    The replacement motherboard/upgrades will end up costing more to just buy a new laptop of equal specs

    Unless this becomes the norm from all laptop manufacturers where parts are interchangeable between brands then this is useless

    • OZTechGuy on 02/09/2022 - 11:18

      Ye agree, I remember seeing some similar ideas before and with phones, but its just too costly and doesnt appeal

  • NoApostrophePlurals on 02/09/2022 - 10:27

    OzAnnouncement?

  • Grish on 02/09/2022 - 10:49
    -7

    Being able to fix broken parts doesn't make this a bargain!

    If my laptop broke, I would want it replaced with a new one.

    If something broke after say 5+ years, it would be getting a little long in the tooth anyway, so I would most likely be looking at a new laptop, not ordering a spare part, then following the gruelling process (Linus struggled to perform any replacement/upgrades).

    And that's assuming you'll even be able to source a spare part in 5 years time..

    This is woke-scam junk to me.

    • FireRunner on 02/09/2022 - 12:45

      Fair enough, the ability to repair and upgrade your laptop doesn't appeal to all. In fact, I'd guess most are happy to just throw away the machine as soon as it stops working without doing even some simple troubleshooting.
      However, it's definitely not a "woke-scam". Laptops were much more serviceable in the past. There used to be socketed CPUs and even upgradeable GPUs. The trend away from this is partially driven by consumers wanting smaller and lighter laptops. Having soldered parts makes it much more compact. But it's also partially due to manufacturers favoring customers buying new laptops. They would earn much more selling a complete unit then just parts.
      Framework is a good step in right direction. It's not for all and it comes with the early adopter price premium. Hopefully they are successful enough to make an impact to the industry

    • Aleigh123 on 02/09/2022 - 12:48

      I agree with your first statement, that being able to fix something that's broken doesn't make it a bargain.

      The thing is, I would hate to dish out another $1,000 or more for a decent laptop. For example, I had an old four year old laptop that stopped charging, and I narrowed the issue down to the charging port. I spent another $15 to buy a replacement part off of eBay and it works to this day (another five years later).

      Also, you seem to forget that the guy (Linus) kept not using a parts tray, or use the guide.

      However, the thing you said about long-term availability of parts is indeed a valid concern. For example, Woolworths has their green "Bag(s) for good" that they promised to replace if they get damaged. They did this for a long time, but fast forward to today. Many stores don't have them anymore and according to one manager, they suspect they are no longer being manufactured. A potentially similar situation to Framework, except where the result isn't a loss of a few dollars worth of bags.

  • Grish on 02/09/2022 - 11:17

    When desktop PCs "break" often you don't know what caused it straight away, regardless of how experienced you are.

    For example, if it stops posting all together, that could be a huge variety of things ranging from a RAM stick to CPU or even Mobo.

    Luckily, with a desktop it's quite easy to troubleshoot this by various methods like isolation testing and spare parts (ie. Slotting in one of your old GPUs you have lying around).

    For this laptop though, please enlighten me on how one would achieve such trouble shooting before splashing out on a whole new Mobo only to later discover that it was the CPU or something else that died?

    • Aureus on 02/09/2022 - 11:53

      The CPU is soldered to the motherboard. You can easily open it up and replace the RAM, or test a single stick of RAM at a time.

  • Switchblade88 on 02/09/2022 - 12:22

    Once they have a touchscreen available this will be an immediate buy for me

  • KillerkratZ on 02/09/2022 - 12:59

    I agree with what some shared here that it’s not a laptop for cost savings reasons but I do like the idea that I can choose what RAM or storage I want. Most OEMs use subpar quality memory kits.

    • dogsryummy on 02/09/2022 - 13:04

      They won't make much of a difference for a laptop like this without a dedicated graphics card

      • thedean on 02/09/2022 - 13:21

        You're assuming high quality RAM is only for gaming?
        People buying 14" laptops are buying them for work, not gaming. And doing compile / calculate / process tasks requires high quality RAM.

        • dogsryummy on 02/09/2022 - 13:36

          Define what you mean by "high quality RAM", do you mean the speed or timings or something else? I'd be interested to hear what workloads would benefit more from a marginally faster RAM kit than a more powerful CPU entirely. Surely just ditch the Framework and get an XPS 15 or ThinkPad or something?

          • thedean on 02/09/2022 - 13:41

            @dogsryummy: Both the speed and chip quality.
            After repair experience with Dell on 3 work laptops (XPS, and two Vostro's) I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole.
            Actually having open source on the chipset design, frame, and full repairability makes this laptop a way better deal than all of Dell's proprietary crap. Watch some gamers nexus videos on how scummy their business practices are.

            Even if this company were to fold, all the schematics are out there for someone else to pick up the slack, which already gives it a brighter future. You literally can't even buy a replacement battery for a 1 year old dell laptop direct from them. It's not even a competition between the two.

            • eug on 02/09/2022 - 14:11

              @thedean:

              You literally can't even buy a replacement battery for a 1 year old dell laptop direct from them.

              Not sure if you've tried, but you can order batteries from Dell. You have to chat with sales to do it though.

              Last year I got a quote for a battery for a 2017-era XPS15 9560, it was $210+gst.

              • thedean on 02/09/2022 - 14:20

                @eug: That's the stupidest crap I've ever heard.

                They have a whole menu for putting in the service tag to find replacement parts, yet it's just accessories it links to. Yet it's available if I spend ages in a chat?
                Just another sneaky way to say "we support repeatability / sustainability" while making it as hard as all hell to actually do.
                I actually have 3 dell laptops on my desk right now, and I'm so glad to be giving my business to another company moving forward.

                • eug on 02/09/2022 - 14:27

                  @thedean:

                  Just another sneaky way to say "we support repeatability / sustainability" while making it as hard as all hell to actually do.

                  Do they actually say that?

  • krisspy on 02/09/2022 - 13:17

    Honestly though, if you were in the market to upgrade your existing 5 year old laptop, would you give it new life or get a shiny brand new one for maybe cheaper? You could atleast sell your old laptop or turn it into a media server or something.

    If you wanted to go for a bigger laptop ie. 13 to a 15 then you're SOL with this

  • GCR on 02/09/2022 - 20:23

    guys, is this one a good deal? https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/265686577114?epid=13053450403&ha…

  • jayjay1980 on 03/09/2022 - 16:38

    shame they don't offer discrete GPU and upgrade

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