Should our Higher Education system be more like America's?

SlavOz on 30/08/2022 - 10:38

America just cancelled a massive wave of student debt, essentially making college free for young students.

Australia seems to be going in the opposite direction. Not only do we still enforce uni debts, but prices have increased AND the government has implemented new laws around when and how they must be paid back. Eg - you can no longer go overseas and avoid the repayments. They follow you for life.

Should we do the same as 'Murica, or keep our existing pay-the-full-amount-yourself-on-layby scheme?

Poll Options

  • 559
    Keep our current system - students should pay their own way
  • 79
    America's is better - uni should be free
Education & Work

Comments

                • SlavOz on 31/08/2022 - 10:00

                  @Mr Haj: Because free shit doesn't grow on trees. It needs to be paid back, and guess who that responsibility falls to?

                  (if you guessed 'the millionaires in parliament earning $400k a year', you guessed wrong).

                  The money comes from the working class, usually in the form of higher taxes or cuts to other areas to free up some budget.

                  • Mr Haj on 31/08/2022 - 10:17

                    @SlavOz: What's your point? I still would have been able to afford uni. Only difference being that afterwards I'd be paying for everyone's degrees instead of my own debt.

        • StingyBritches on 31/08/2022 - 10:46
          +2

          I think the ol’ Slav joined a ‘Debating Class’ so he practices here all the time.

          A Debating Class for the Masses as it were…

  • DingoBilly on 31/08/2022 - 10:22
    +4

    Is this a joke? It's a completely incorrect interpretation/comparison of America's and Australia's systems. OP has a very poor understanding of what's happening.

  • quasio on 31/08/2022 - 10:26
    +2

    yeah having worked and studied in US a little bit, you definitely do not want the american system. they pay full interest on their loans, whereas HECS is just CPI interest.

    Also if you decide to study at an interstate university, you're basically paying full international rates. Only if you study in your own state do you get "normal" fees.

    I always wondered why my american counterparts who had much higher salaries, much cheaper houses, weren't just swimming in investments and property. And It's basically student debt keeping them down for a LONG time.

  • infinite on 31/08/2022 - 10:37

    America just cancelled a massive wave of student debt

    They haven't cancelled anything, they simply announced they were going to attempt to cancel $10K in debt per outstanding loan holder.

    The Dem's are incredibly unlikely to support Biden's announcement with enough numbers/votes though, as all low & middle class workers in the US will absolutely dunk them at the mid-terms if they start erasing debt for the rich & elite's.

    Over in the US, way more people do community and state run tertiary education after high school than the elite expensive private college system. Those local and state run colleges are priced at about the same or less than what TAFE is here in Australia. Most people who graduate those systems have no debt within two years of working full time. So the benefit of this $10K debt write-off is only really going to the most wealthy <1% of Americans.

  • mavis30551 on 31/08/2022 - 10:40
    +1

    Higher education should be free or close to free.

    I find it enraging the generation that got free education promptly stopped it when they got in to power.

    • trapper on 31/08/2022 - 11:20

      It's a lot more expensive now, and far more people want to do it.

      There is just no way it could realistically be free any more, we can't afford it.

      Unless we greatly restricted the number of students, maybe…

      • mavis30551 on 31/08/2022 - 11:46
        +1

        Want to?
        My generation got told we HAD to go to uni to be successful ( I didnt by the way, I left and joined the workforce and years later joined uni to further my career)

        And whos to say we cant afford it?
        We can afford billion dollar tax cuts to high income earners.
        Billion dollar tax cuts to corporations
        We can give Harvey 20 million during a pandemic.
        We can give 4 billion dollars PER year to subsidise mining companies, ripping out natural resources and sending the profits overseas.

        Seems to me like we can afford it.

        • trapper on 31/08/2022 - 11:48

          And whos to say we cant afford it?

          You won't know if you don't do the math, so start there.

          • mavis30551 on 31/08/2022 - 11:51
            +1

            @trapper: You made the claim - "we cant afford it".
            Citation needed.

            How much would it cost?
            Are we talking the whole cost?
            Part of the cost?

            • trapper on 31/08/2022 - 13:18

              @mavis30551: https://budget.gov.au/2022-23/content/overview/index.htm

              We're in the red mate, there isn't even $1 to spare. We would have to borrow money to pay it or cut something else out.

              • mavis30551 on 01/09/2022 - 10:28

                @trapper: Agreed, we should remove tax cuts to the highest income earners which is going to cost $243 billion over the next 10 years to pay for it.

                Reckless spending got us here but we don't have to continue that trend.
                The liberals screw up of the french submarine deal for example would save us 5 billion.
                Imagine how many liberal arts degrees that could pay for (thats a joke btw).

                • trapper on 01/09/2022 - 23:50

                  @mavis30551:

                  we should remove tax cuts to the highest income earners which is going to cost $243 billion over the next 10 years

                  We would still be in the red, so still can't afford free education.

                  • mavis30551 on 02/09/2022 - 12:52

                    @trapper: OK lets completely get rid of negative gearing as well.

                    That should help. Plenty of money then

                    • trapper on 02/09/2022 - 15:46
                      -1

                      @mavis30551: Still in the red lol

                      … and now not enough houses being built too, so rents are through the roof.

                      • mavis30551 on 02/09/2022 - 17:26
                        -1

                        @trapper: citation needed.
                        Is your reply to every social policy "we cant afford it?"

                        Rents are already through the roof. We are the most generous country in the world when it comes to house tax incentives but don't have the cheapest rents in the world. Go figure.

                        Lets just keep doing the exact same thing because its clearly working.

                        • trapper on 02/09/2022 - 17:35
                          -1

                          @mavis30551: It's not 'my answer', you asked for a citation and I gave it.

                          We don't have this imaginary money you are dreaming of.

                          • mavis30551 on 02/09/2022 - 17:36

                            @trapper: I disagree. We have plenty of Money. Just spending it on the wrong things.

    • SlavOz on 31/08/2022 - 11:49
      -1

      For past generations, university was a personal choice. Some people decided to go, others did not. It was balanced out by natural forces so we were able to offer it for free.

      Nowadays, things have changed too drastically. There are more jobs than ever that don't even require a degree, so the collective value of someone completing a gender studies course is basically useless. Why would we pay them to do it?

      University attendance has sky-rocketed due to social pressure, misinformation espoused by the education system, and universities turning into hubs of intellectual echo chambers reinforcing young people's views of the world. Consequently, this massive spike in enrolments has diluted the value of university graduates. The overall benefit to the individual and society has greatly diminished, so there's less of a reason to incentivise it.

      • mavis30551 on 31/08/2022 - 11:53

        Insert Billy Madison quote here.

      • Eeples on 31/08/2022 - 12:24

        For ‘past generations’ you had to get reasonably good marks in your final year of high school to be accepted into uni. And higher marks for courses such as medicine and law.

        Have things really changed that much ?

        Perhaps they have.

  • trapper on 31/08/2022 - 11:03
    +2

    American higher education is not free lol, it costs WAY more than here.

  • Cluster on 31/08/2022 - 11:11

    Cancelling student debt is a really dumb idea.

    1. It rewards those who took on too much debt, and punishes others who paid back what they owed.

    2. It sends the message to future students that hey, I don't need to worry about this $100k debt I'm racking up in my Masters of Social Work. A future government will shower me with free money.

    3. Universities know there's a new pot of free money out there. Students can afford even more debt, so let's raise tuition fees!

    And as has been pointed out many times, no one 'cancelled' all student debt. It's only $10k. Listen to the Dave Ramsay show on Youtube. It's quite common for people to be carrying $200k or more.

    • Jolakot on 03/09/2022 - 14:12

      The real question is why a masters of social work would cost $100k

  • huggsymersh on 31/08/2022 - 11:32

    "Biden's plan to cancel billions of dollars worth of student loans is stirring controversy. But in a rare case of bipartisanship, many economists from both the left and the right agree that this proposed policy has… not-so-good side effects.

    Today on the show, hear from two economists about the negative consequences of student loan forgiveness. And, learn about the wild, wild West that is the United States higher education system. "

    https://www.npr.org/2022/08/29/1119988025/economists-take-on…

  • Willy Beamish on 31/08/2022 - 11:38
    +4

    "America just cancelled a massive wave of student debt, essentially making college free for young students."

    That's got to be the most uninformed statement I've seen recently….

  • MrFunSocks on 31/08/2022 - 11:43

    America didn't make college free though, they just gave big deductions on a bunch of federal loans for existing and previous students.

    Our HECS/HELP system is also way different to theirs. Lots of students over there have been paying their loans back for a decade and the loan amount has gone up because of massive interest rates on them. Our loans are basically just inflation adjusted. You can't possibly be paying your HELP loan back and the value of it still be going up. You also don't need to repay ours until you earn over a certain amount, whereas again, America's are completely different as in they're just loans that you take out and need to start paying back immediately.

  • charkwayteo on 31/08/2022 - 11:58
    +1

    Where the hell did you get this info from… so misinformed it's laughable god damn..this 10k once off forgiveness to people earning less than 125k just trying to some more votes in the upcoming elections this year.

    literally kids still having to taking out privatized education loans in the US from institutes like Sallie Maes and paying 12-13% interest on $100k plus loans as grads.

    I graduated with around 34k in debt after uni paid it off in around 6 years on a VERY average wage, it was only corrected to inflation every year around 1.5-2.3%… If I really wanted to I probably could have paid it off in less than half the time.

    I personally don't feel America should be a country we should look up to an follow suite, I think America ought to take a page out of many other democratic countries on how education and healthcare operate.

    • Willy Beamish on 31/08/2022 - 12:55

      Careful dude, facts will get you labelled a right wing extremist.

  • SlickMick on 31/08/2022 - 12:38

    I think we have a good system at the moment.
    If you want to study whatever you like, you'll repay the cost when you earn an income.
    If you study what the government determines Australia needs more talent in (commonwealth supported places), you pay maybe 20% - enough so the student has an investment in succeeding, but affordable.

  • [Deactivated] on 31/08/2022 - 13:20
    +1

    Why would you copy any school system that has drills incase someone comes and shoots everyone, and the teachers need to be armed?

    • SlavOz on 31/08/2022 - 13:33
      -1

      Would you prefer they didn't have drills or other protocols to ward off dangerous situations?

      • [Deactivated] on 31/08/2022 - 13:37

        What I am saying, is we shouldnt copy anything from a system that requires something like that.

        Maybe you should go back to school, since your comprehension is terrible.

        • SlavOz on 31/08/2022 - 15:14
          -2

          The requirement for gun drills has nothing to do with America's education system. It's a result of deep-rooted issues within the country - rising crime rates or ghettos, a mental health pandemic, extreme social polarisation, and a culture of gun celebration.

          Did you think schools were encouraging mass shootings or something? Talk about comprehension skills…

          • [Deactivated] on 31/08/2022 - 15:25

            @SlavOz: DONT COPY ANYTHING AMERICA DO

    • Ughhh on 31/08/2022 - 13:36
      +1

      Sadly, I think thats exactly what op wants. Give 10yos guns.

      • SlavOz on 31/08/2022 - 15:19
        -4

        Hey mate, we both want government employees to have guns in order to keep people around them safe. We're not that different.

        The only place we disagree is which exact government employees get these guns. You think it should be police and military - whereas I actually think those people have shown they cannot be trusted to use them responsibly. Instead, I reckon teachers should have access to a safely stored gun in case of mass shootings.

        If this policy was in place during the recent Texas shooting, many lives would've been saved. The police (your preferred gun carriers) showed up on scene within minutes but were too afraid to do anything.

        Happy for you to prove me wrong.

        • [Deactivated] on 31/08/2022 - 16:15
          +2

          what a stupid argument haha. the police were too scared to engage with the gunman, but you think a school teacher wouldn't be? insanity.

          • Randolph Duke on 31/08/2022 - 16:47
            +1

            @[Deactivated]: The mental gymnastics for far right posters on the internet really is a sight to behold.

          • Ghost47 on 01/09/2022 - 00:11
            +1

            @[Deactivated]: That's the funny thing about gun nuts. They always go on about how guns are for pRoTeCtiOn, well I don't see them saving anyone from mass shootings in the US. There are never stories about how a gun advocate saved dozens of lives by taking down an active shooter.

          • SlavOz on 01/09/2022 - 12:42

            @[Deactivated]:

            you think a school teacher wouldn't be? insanity.

            Think about the context. The police were too scared to go into the school while the shooting was occurring. Teachers are already inside. Many mass shooting victims are trapped inside the school with no safe way out. If teachers had guns, they'd be able to fight their way out. Or at least die trying. That's a lot better than just having the police wait outside with body bags.

            Let s just cut the bullshit for a second - if you were trapped inside a building during a shooting, and there was a gun nearby…as if you wouldn't pick it up and rub it all of your genitals in gratitude. You'd have an orgasm seeing a free gun in that situstion. Your odds of surviving literally just shot up.

        • misu p on 01/09/2022 - 12:21
          +1

          The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun…. or in this case 100 guys with guns that sit outside and do nothing (exactly what security guards usually do in US schools). Because of course, somebody that gets paid the minimum wage to watch kids will always try to take on a bad guy with a gun (NOT).

          The solution is no guns obviously but…. that is just the logical and proven solution… arguments that do not work in your circles.

          • SlavOz on 01/09/2022 - 12:46
            -2

            @misu p: Teachers are already inside the school during a mass shooting. It's not about paying them to be heroes - they're going to be heroeos for their own sake so they can survive and go home to their families later that day.

            If someone came to your workplace and started shooting people, and there happened to be gun nearby, you telling me you wouldn't pick it up?

            I call bullshit. Its easy to talk shit on Ozbargain until your life is actually in danger and the police are nowhere to be found.

            • [Deactivated] on 01/09/2022 - 14:22
              +2

              @SlavOz:

              Its (sic) easy to talk shit on Ozbargain

              you would know, you do it every day.

              it's funny how your solution to gun violence is THEY NEED MORE GUNS. You've changed my mind actually, I think teachers should be open carrying assault rifles, and kids starting from 5 should have concealed carry permits, that'll fix it!

              • SlavOz on 01/09/2022 - 16:03
                -1

                @[Deactivated]: I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the crisis in Ukraine. Australia, the most anti-gun country in the world, was quite happy to inject billions of dollars of weapons into the war. Sounds like their solution to the problem was also "MORE GUNS".

                What did you think about the shooting that took place in the Sydney caffee a few years back, where police had to rush in with guns to kill the perp? Was "MORE GUNS" the right solution then too?

                Finally, Marxism killed millions of people, mostly with guns. It's just slightly ironic given your username. Someone who clearly knows very little about history or the cost-benefit equation of guns preaching about how to keep our streets safe 😂

                Your ideas have already been tried. They failed.

                Move on.

                • [Deactivated] on 01/09/2022 - 16:15
                  +2

                  @SlavOz: bruh you're equating school shootings with a literal war lmao.

                  the hostage situation in sydney a few years ago is an example of the police doing their jobs… or should the baristas have had a "safely stored gun" as well?

                  do you actually think before saying anything or just parrot whatever conservative talking points you hear in your echo chamber and just believe they make sense?

                  • SlavOz on 01/09/2022 - 17:41
                    -3

                    @[Deactivated]:

                    bruh you're equating school shootings with a literal war lmao.

                    I don't think you want to go down the path of saying "school shootings ain't that bad" lol.

                    Then again, Marxist…

                    the hostage situation in sydney a few years ago is an example of the police doing their jobs

                    They killed an innocent civilian in the process. 50% of victims that day were killed by police.

                    Where's all the anti-gun rhetoric when the police make a mistake or misuse their weapons?

                    • [Deactivated] on 01/09/2022 - 18:08
                      +4

                      @SlavOz: The Gish gallop… is a rhetorical technique in which a person in a debate attempts to overwhelm their opponent by providing an excessive number of arguments with no regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments. In essence, it is prioritizing quantity of one's arguments at the expense of quality of said arguments.

        • crentist on 01/09/2022 - 16:12

          The problem isn't that the teachers didn't have guns. It's that the gunmen have guns.
          And while I don't have complete trust in the police, I have far far less trust in the responsible gun ownership of whoever would be given access to guns if restrictions were loosened to allow more people to have guns.

          It could be a recipe for more good guys with guns, but really it's just a recipe for more guys with guns.
          Do you really trust any random, loosely vetted guy ? You'd just be handing them out at random, basically.

          Either that, or you raise the requirements for teachers to include some high barrier that hasn't been there before, possibly losing a bunch of perfectly good teachers.

          • SlavOz on 01/09/2022 - 17:46

            @crentist:

            I have far far less trust in the responsible gun ownership of whoever would be given access to guns

            Well, this is the political line isn't it. Progressives believe the government can be trusted unconditionally while regular people cannot, whereas the right tends to reverse the roles and think its the government that can't be trusted.

            I don't think there's any convincing you. History is quite clear on how much we can trust the government. If you haven't got the message by now, I'm not sure you ever will.

            Do you really trust any random, loosely vetted guy ?

            Isn't a police officer just a random, loosely vetted guy?

            • crentist on 02/09/2022 - 02:11
              +1

              @SlavOz:

              Progressives believe the government can be trusted unconditionally while regular people cannot, whereas the right tends to reverse the roles and think its the government that can't be trusted.

              I'd say it's the right that insist on seeing the world in black and white terms, while progressives are able to be conditional in their thinking.

              History is quite clear on how much we can trust the government.

              Not sure what you mean or what this has to do with guns. Our government has much more than the threat of violence if and when they want to be nasty. Most people are adequately cowed by the threat of fines and legal action as it is, which lowers the need for police to use guns at all. Which in turns lowers the threshold for what we (and the government) consider gun misconduct.
              And being able to shoot back at the police only works in the case of misconduct anyway (if it ever has any chance of working), when they are acting without the support of the government. It's better to keep that threshold low, or else they might abuse their unique gun privileges.

              Isn't a police officer just a random, loosely vetted guy?

              Not really, they're trained and vetted for a position where firearms handling is expected and required. The ones who fail basic training don't become cops.

              Teachers aren't trained to use guns. They also don't need to demonstrate any ability to handle the responsibility of gun ownership.

              If you suddenly place a gun in a staff room, every teacher would need to be trained and vetted.
              What happens to the ones that fail? Do they have to stop being teachers? What if many of them fail? Do we fire them and make the teacher shortage worse, or do we loosen gun restrictions?

              And what problem is being solved by giving teachers guns anyway? They, along with the rest of the country (except you), don't live in fear of random gun violence.

    • infinite on 31/08/2022 - 17:49

      Why would you copy any school system that has drills incase someone comes and shoots everyone

      Every Australian primary school and high school already do the exact same drills, usually once a school term. They also do fire/gas/emergency escape drills, too.

      Their called lock-down exercises and are designed specifically for teachers to train students how to lockdown & hide in areas where a group or individual threat on school grounds is approaching, then escape to side-streets away from the school if needed when the threat leaves your area.

      • SBOB on 31/08/2022 - 17:53
        -1

        Every Australian primary school and high school already do the exact same drills, usually once a school term

        Really? I've never seen this done at any primary schools my or friends kids go to, and definitely not multiple times a year :/

        • [Deactivated] on 31/08/2022 - 18:34
          -1

          Me either, I have never heard of it.
          We never even had it mentioned from K-12 for me. None of the teachers or students ever talked about it.

      • christopher8827 on 01/09/2022 - 00:42
        -1

        What kind of school does this? We did evacuation / fire drills, not shooter drills.

      • misu p on 01/09/2022 - 12:22
        -1

        I have a kid… no they do not… Nobody teaches kids how to hide in case of a gun. They get through how to get away from a fire.

        • Eeples on 01/09/2022 - 19:19
          +1

          They do.

          As said previously they are called lockdowns; ask your school.

          ps. Evacuation for fire (for example), lockdowns for intruders.

  • srhardy on 31/08/2022 - 13:44

    TAFE was moved under the HECS system and prices ballooned and now unless a course is FREE or almost free from government subsidies takers are few and far between.

    The GOOD from this is my longterm unemployed friend now, who had done so many tafe courses over the years now cant and is ineligible

    The BAD is they have killed the overseas foreign market place for TAFE as now only UNI students want that that level of debt as the difference between TAFE and UNI costs dwindled. The Internationally recognised Photography course from the Sunshine Coast has disappeared under these changes as it was the foreign students that made it possible

    Is Tafe worth it, well for course so you can work in aged care, disability and community support for NDIS ect, yes and as well as Apprenticeships but otherwise no. UNI yes for a degree in an area that demands one, by all means but choose carefully. What they will never tell you is an ARTS/Media degree is worthless, better to just get a google/youtube channel as waste time and money on some of those unless endeavours!

    • Willy Beamish on 31/08/2022 - 13:49

      Agree with that tafe part. it has its uses. From people i know that have gone to tafe for any type of IT ranging from cert 2 (yeah idk why) to diploma level, it's all outdated and not worth the time and doesn't actually prepare you for work.

    • infinite on 31/08/2022 - 17:57

      You can do Bachelor & Post Grad degrees at TAFE in Management, Commerce, Finance, IT, Engineering, Financial Planning, Property Management, Law, etc….

      You don't have any need to do that stuff at Uni now, where it's 10x as expensive and the courses have been filled with fluff and irrelevant to the workplace busy-work due to the lecturers never having worked in the fields they are teaching in.

  • monky on 31/08/2022 - 13:45
    +3

    You phrased this so weirdly… "America's is better - uni should be free" as if $10,000 of purged college debt makes it suddenly "free"? I think you're overplaying how Liberal this move is, and ignoring how, in-comparison their student debt model is far, far worse than what we have here with HECS/Austudy?

    Making an assumption here that you probably lean right/conservative or shitposting because you're bored at 10am: Because most center Libertarians would be happy that their government is finally working for their interests Instead of pandering to huge, multi-billion dollar corporations?

    • SlavOz on 31/08/2022 - 15:10
      -2

      Libertarians are rarely happy when the government hands out free money, even if they're eligible for it. A lot of popular podcasters I listen to said they refused to apply for the subsidies or payments they were offered during the pandemic.

      "Working for their (Libertarians) interests" would mean the government stops subsidising rich universities.

      If payments or free money is ever required, it should follow the individual, not the institutions.

      • Randolph Duke on 31/08/2022 - 16:49
        +1

        Who are these popular podcasters so we can check the public registers. Plenty of grifters say one thing but behave another.

        • [Deactivated] on 03/09/2022 - 00:55
          +2

          no reply. interesting

      • Eeples on 02/09/2022 - 16:41

        But isn’t that what the $10k forgiveness does?
        It is for the individual. So they are not burdened by the debt.

      • monky on 03/09/2022 - 15:44
        +1

        Libertarians absolutely love when the government works for them, even if it's "Free money" — Anything that helps maximize the autonomy of the working class is by definition and fundamentally Libertarian: Assisting with the burden of student loans furthers the autonomy of workers, helping them improve their living situation and by extension, their ability to be productive members of society.

        Yes Universities are generally for-profit, but they are not fundamentally exploitative to the degree the upper Capitalist class is; which is why I think you're either shitposting or misinformed.

        • [Deactivated] on 05/09/2022 - 15:46

          whilst i agree with you that pretty much all prominent libertarians are grifters who prey on insecure (mostly) men, who love to take government assistance whilst arguing against it for poor people, that's not what libertarian ideology is.

          libertarianism is built on severe individualism and a general lack of empathy for other people. they don't believe in government assistance, but instead believe "the market" will solve everything. "people can't afford to go to the doctor? well under supply and demand that means the doctors will have to lower their prices!" despite the fact that we can use America as a prime example that this market-based solution does not work.

          what you're thinking of with welfare being justified if it assists in improving the automomy of individuals in society is closer to social liberalism, such as we see here in Australia and in the UK.

  • itsme56 on 31/08/2022 - 14:24
    +1

    University is a choice and a therefore luxury, why should the tax payer foot the bill. You can do a trade and make just as much money, or more, if you're good what what you do.

    There is an argument to be made for the government to establish subsidies to promote students to study degrees in areas where there is higher demand for workers, such as Dr's, Nurses & Teachers, etc. (and only subsidize it once you've successfully completed and been employed for 5+ years in the field). But the Tax payer definitely should not be subsidizing any Bachelor's/ARTS degrees in travel, event planning, etc…

    • SydStrand on 31/08/2022 - 20:43

      University is a choice and a therefore luxury, why should the tax payer foot the bill

      Investing in public education lifts all boats. It powers local R&D and keeps our country competitive; and not just fancy pants fields like pharmaceuticals or IT, even 'blue collar' industries like agriculture and mining benefit from the work of people educated at public universities working at public institutes like the CSIRO.

      Public schools democratise higher learning. If University was treated as a luxury, then the only students who'd attend are the indolent rich whose families can afford it. This would only worsen wealth inequality by concentrating education among the wealthy.

    • hasher22 on 01/09/2022 - 00:58

      While Tafe and Uni are choices, if someone wants to be a professional they would need a degree of some kind. This is the norm now, government data from 1989 to 2017 data in Australia has shown 2.5x enrollment in universities, increasing roughly 4-5% per year.

      For example, 2010 showed 600k enrollments vs 2017 showed 768k enrollments.

      It's just going to get higher and higher as employers now seek people with degrees.

      The reason why people don't want to be doctors or teachers anymore cause young people have seen the conditions and it's dreadful. Throwing money at those students isn't going to fix the problem, the problem is the job itself, not money.

      Countless teachers and doctors state money isn't the problem, it's the job.

      Monentary compensation is a bandaid fix and I don't understand why governments and unions don't understand that money thrown into wage/salaries does not fix anything long term.

      There was a good teachers thread somewhere here that teachers voiced that they are overworked and more money isn't going to fix it and that's the truth. Any job for that matter, you can work 100 hours a week for 400k a year, but what's the point in all that money when you don't have time to spend it and next thing you know, you're dead as time passed by so fast working, your health is gone too.

      Time appears to go faster when were getting older and older

  • ColtNoir on 31/08/2022 - 15:07

    A third option, completely free for degree’s we need people in eg STEM.
    As someone without a degree, I’d do this part time in my 30’s as I can’t afford to take a financial hit with a family taking up HELP.

    • Ghost47 on 31/08/2022 - 23:56

      Nah we can just import more people from overseas who are educated in STEM.

      • ColtNoir on 02/09/2022 - 18:31

        We still can’t get enough

  • xazark on 31/08/2022 - 15:17
    +2

    Didn't the Vic government just announce that uni for nurses was going to be free. You could also vote Greens as their view is free education for life.

  • tabitha731 on 31/08/2022 - 16:59

    Look at the quality of the free education… nuff said !

    • itsme56 on 31/08/2022 - 17:09

      The paid education most Uni's provide can be pretty poor too. Definitely not value for money.

  • nandystam on 31/08/2022 - 17:07
    +2

    edgelord
    /ˈɛdʒlɔːd/
    nouninformal

    noun: edgelord; plural noun: edgelords; noun: edge-lord; plural noun: edge-lords

    a person who affects a provocative or extreme persona, especially online (typically used of a man).
"edgelords act like contrarians in the hope that everyone will admire them as rebels"
    • buckster on 02/09/2022 - 07:48

      More like edge dunce

  • jaimex2 on 31/08/2022 - 19:09
    +1

    Your understanding of what America has done is completely wrong.

  • OzzyOzbourne on 31/08/2022 - 19:31

    $$$ is all that matters

  • idonotknowwhy on 31/08/2022 - 19:56
    -1

    Nope, (profanity) you I paid mine off in full.

    • Herbse on 31/08/2022 - 21:57
      +1

      I'd wager that you didn't. If you studied in Australia as a citizen, your course fees was subsidised by the government. Everyone's is, most people don't realise

      • idonotknowwhy on 01/09/2022 - 09:18
        +1

        Everyone's is, most people don't realise

        You're right, I didn't know this.

        When I said I paid it off in full, I meant I paid off my HECS debt.

        I don't think these debts should be let go, we knew what we were getting into when we decided to go to uni.

        And I did even have to start paying it until I started earning a reasonable amount of money

        • Herbse on 01/09/2022 - 09:20
          +2

          Agreed we have a good system at the moment.
          Decent assistance and payment options when the time is right with enough of a debt scare to stop most people from wasting resources on useless qualification.

  • Herbse on 31/08/2022 - 20:52

    10% off is not free. The US education system is a mess just like most other things there thanks to poor policies, heavy deregulation and business lobbying.

    Our tertiary education is already heavily subsidised by the government for citizens. If you don't know, ask a foreign student and compare their fees to a local. The locals pay up to 80% less depending on the course and doesn't know it and still complains about the cost.

    • wimphrel on 31/08/2022 - 21:43

      I only realised a few years ago that people on some temporary visas have to pay up to $12K per year in NSW for their children's shooling in the public education system. (Was only $100-200 a year for me in admin fees as a local).

      (I think I was talking to a taxi driver who turned out to be an international student studying a post-doc law degree in a specialised field)

      https://www.deinternational.nsw.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_fil…

  • doryappleseed on 31/08/2022 - 22:01
    +1

    Are you taking the piss or just massively misinformed on this topic?? They’ve cancelled $10k from some students under certain conditions - uni over there still costs an absolute bomb. It still costs half a million to become a doctor or dentist over there, and tens of thousands per year for pretty much every other degree.

  • [Deactivated] on 31/08/2022 - 23:46

    Apart from top universities which cost an arm and a leg anyway, most uni course content here is garbage and poorly structured. Even for skilled professionals. Even one of my own university head lecturers back in the day openly declared in a class full of 100+ students that they wouldn't let their kids pursue higher education here. Most relatives I know currently going through uni seem to agree. Most people who have gone through this system wouldn't support subsiding studies, at least not from all universities and all courses. Maybe in skills where there are shortages.

  • Ghost47 on 31/08/2022 - 23:55
    +3

    I honestly cannot believe you didn't even seem to read the news properly. You probably just saw a heading on some Murdoch rag saying "Student debt wiped in Biden's socialist America".

    Seriously, read the news properly and then make a post to stoke discussion.

  • Bid Sniper on 01/09/2022 - 06:41

    Alt right radicalisation pressure washer, certainly warps peoples perceptions of realities and make them vote against their own interest.

    We should be nothing like the Americans in any respect.

  • peekabooo on 01/09/2022 - 07:47

    I'm for for free education. The cost of education should be tied to the outcome and the actual cost of teaching. If an university is teaching something of value to the society. Like nursing, doctors, engineers, trades, teaching etc the community I'm okay with using the tax money for it. If an university is teaching mediaeval history in Japan for 30k a year I say that's no bargain.

  • bajillionaire on 01/09/2022 - 09:13
    +1

    How did this post escape from Truth Social?

  • Zondor on 01/09/2022 - 09:22
    +1

    Tell me you've studied America without studying America.

  • Duckie2hh on 01/09/2022 - 09:33

    Also… university in America is not free. The current situation does not reflect the normal practices of high student loan debt that has been occurring for the last 20+ years.

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 01/09/2022 - 09:34
    +1

    Our current system is rubbish - it over churns out graduates with useless overly general degrees Arts, Science etc that often require many more years of further study to have some semblance of a future career.

  • Hangryuman on 01/09/2022 - 10:07

    I was impressed by one result of the US education system

    we stayed with a black guy at Venice Beach California who was an LA community college teacher

    who told me that his father had been a poor coal miner in Pittsburgh

    and he as son had won a scholarship to Harvard to study medicine

    but wanting to make a difference to black students, he chose instead to become a community college (TAFE-equivalent) teacher.

    US tends to reward excellence and abuse the poor, East Asia tends to reward conformity (nails that stick up get hammered down),
    Australia as a primary industry commodity economy tends to be shibby rite with well-paid jobs for boyz and mates rates (rats?).

    meh - every country has its own unique problems and opportunities - and asking if we should be more like another country is kinda like pissing in the wind - yair grate to aspire to what we don't have but it ain't exactly gonna happen like that so STFU and GTFO - /end rant

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