Help with a Traffic Fine - (i) Crossing over a Solid White Line and (ii) Driving on The Wrong Side of The Road

tmg316 on 07/05/2021 - 03:06
Last edited 07/05/2021 - 09:43 by 1 other user

So… I received an on the spot traffic fine yesterday. I was waiting at a level crossing and decided to cut down the street to the side of the railway track. I crossed onto the other side of the road and turned right (there was no traffic as all cars were stopped for the train).

Sure enough I hear sirens behind me. The officer was pretty pissed but I didn’t think it was worth arguing the point (I figure it rarely is). However I was a bit cross when he issued me with 2 separate infringements, each one $330 and 3 demerit points - the notices were for (i) crossing over a solid white line and (ii) driving on the wrong side of the road.

I wonder, is it fair to write someone up with multiple infringement notices for the same incident? This seems to me to be quite excessive. I was considering appealing against it.

And I also wonder, if I was to go to the magistrates court over it, do these things get resolved by fines Victoria prior to going to court? I.e. they might waive it if they can’t be bothered going to court.

Has anyone got experience with these sort of things? Is it worth fighting?

Automotive

Comments

  • AdosHouse on 07/05/2021 - 03:19
    +70

    1) Did you cross over a solid white line and drive on the wrong side of the road? If yes, no it is not excessive.

    2) No they will no waive it because they cannot be bothered. You will still have to pay the fines, and now with added court costs.

    • SnoozeAndLose on 07/05/2021 - 09:28
      +14

      Do the crime, Pay the fine.

      I agree that if you break multiple Laws at once they will issue you with multiple fines.

      it is like riding e scooter in a public space in NSW will cop a $2200+ fine from multiple tickets.

      • Chchnu on 09/05/2021 - 09:21
        -8

        I agree that if you break multiple Laws at once they will issue you with multiple fines.

        Yea like that dude that ran down 40 ppl and killed 5 in melbourne cbd a few years ago. He got multiple murder / injuring others charges for the 1 incident.

        When OP says stuff like

        I wonder, is it fair to write someone up with multiple infringement notices for the same incident? This seems to me to be quite excessive

        He's probably a murderer sympethyser.

        • crentist on 10/05/2021 - 13:07

          When you make wild leaps to conclusions like

          He's probably a murderer sympethyser.

          You're probably a one-time television show contestant now working as a circus juggler

  • garetz on 07/05/2021 - 03:26
    +8

    Suck it up and pay the fine, next time know better and do not repeat your past mistakes. Cop had every right to be pissed, you flagrantly broke the rules. Maybe learn to develop some patience.

    • fantombloo on 07/05/2021 - 07:02
      +38

      Cop might have had a right to issue notices but doesn't mean they have a right to be pissed.

      • RockyRaccoon on 07/05/2021 - 08:48
        +4

        but doesn't mean they have a right to be pissed.

        What they havent a right to be human?

        And we only have the posters opinion - that they were "pissed"

        Sometimes they are stern and unexpressive, to indicate the seriousness of the offence.

        • fantombloo on 07/05/2021 - 09:05
          +19

          Cop has a duty to be professional.

          • askbargain on 07/05/2021 - 12:38
            -6

            @fantombloo: Right or duty?

            • Blitzfx on 08/05/2021 - 17:47
              +4

              @askbargain: Nowhere in Australia is there written that you have the right to be pissed.
              As a constable, being pissed escalates the situation which is against training, and it's also unprofessional.

              • fantombloo on 08/05/2021 - 21:30
                -5

                @Blitzfx: As of this moment 7 people disagree with my comment that cops have a duty to be professional.

                Basically endorsing a police state, yet I suspect also the same liberals who otherwise spout their "but muh freedoms" take on everything.

              • ak47wong on 08/05/2021 - 22:18
                +1

                @Blitzfx: We expect police officers not to be pissed because it’s unprofessional to be drinking on the job.

                • Blitzfx on 09/05/2021 - 11:44

                  @ak47wong: Have to admit, it took me a minute to realise it was a dad joke.

        • t_c on 08/05/2021 - 21:09
          -2

          If cop was being human, they would understand that OPs decision was a well calculated low speed risk not unreasonable given the circumstances and that even if went completely awry would have next to nil chance of resulting in any kind of serious or minor injury to themselves or any other party.

          Simply put, cop was being a robot

    • Butt Scratcher on 09/05/2021 - 10:45

      TBH I don't even know why the cop would be pissed. The cop isn't the person paying the fine, or the one who has anything to lose.

      The cop probably just wanted to tell him off or OP came up with excuses (which happens a lot) and thought he must be in a foul mood if he isn't listening to any of it.

      • connorlo on 10/05/2021 - 12:07

        the cop was possibly pissed as they mave previously had to scrape off someone else off the road for doing the very same thing, or have had to go and tell loved ones about what happened. Should be professional, but I can understand why they would have some anger.

  • screensaver on 07/05/2021 - 03:28
    +5

    Cop It Sweet

  • Master Bates on 07/05/2021 - 07:01
    +21

    You must be new here, oh member since 2011.

    You should know this crowd by now, they’re only going to advise one thing.

    • Nugs on 07/05/2021 - 11:19
      +10

      bikies?
      .

    • SF3 on 07/05/2021 - 20:11
      +1

      Fight it!! = negs

      OP messed up, drove illegally, admitted it, claims “rEvEnUe rAiSiNg”. Majority in OzB will vote to just pay the fine! = upvotes.

  • EightImmortals on 07/05/2021 - 07:15
    +29

    So you did those things without noticing the cop behind you?

    • Austin 316 on 07/05/2021 - 08:17
      +2

      Haha, gold. I think you also knew if you get caught doing this then you will be fined. Just pay the fine and follow the rules next time. No advise here is going to save you money.

      • EightImmortals on 07/05/2021 - 08:52
        +5

        Well it's not so much he broke the 'rules' as much as if you are going to walk outside of the lines at least a have a look around first. :)

    • THL on 07/05/2021 - 16:01
      +1

      Ah so that's why those people like to do burnouts at intersection to notify the cops

      • EightImmortals on 07/05/2021 - 16:26
        +3

        Too right, burnouts are the bogan equivalent to crop circles.

  • John Kimble on 07/05/2021 - 07:30
    +14

    I wonder, is it fair to write someone up with multiple infringement notices for the same incident?

    Fair. Wonder no more! 😂

  • SF3 on 07/05/2021 - 07:43
    -3

    OP’s prior post in 2016, was:

    Planning a Trip to Istanbul. Is It Safe? Have You Ever Gone Somewhere Where Terrorists Target?

    Now this.

    Has anyone got experience with these sort of things? Is it worth fighting?

    Many prior OzB OPs has posted on here before on this very same topic… déjà vu.

    SF3 on 07/05/2021 - 07:43 (Collapsed - Offtopic. Show)
    • SlavOz on 08/05/2021 - 11:22
      +7

      Wtf is it with Ozbargain tracking down everyone's unrelared post history when they ask a question?

      When you meet someone for the first time, do you stalk their Facebook page to see if you can take any of their past thoughts out of context, or do you carry on like a normal human being and engage in a civil discussion with them?

      This way of conducting yourself won't get you far in life. Your sense of self-righteousness as a keeper of Ozbargain doesn't mean much in the real world man.

      • SF3 on 08/05/2021 - 12:02

        self-righteousness

        Pot calling the kettle black.

      • OzBarAnon on 08/05/2021 - 15:07
        +3

        Because it can yield very funny results

      • Blitzfx on 08/05/2021 - 17:57
        +1

        Because low intelligence people like to conflate unrelated questions with one another and draw 100% definitive conclusions on that person's entire existence.

        There are infinite circumstances and situations which might lead to someone behaving a certain way, but no. None of that matters. Their post history on OzBargain MUST absolutely be the main indicator.

        Even with that aside, this particular traffic violation has nothing to do with their question about a trip to Istanbul

        Watched enough drama on social media to know that someone's online personality can be the complete opposite in-person, especially for celebrities.

      • bmerigan on 08/05/2021 - 20:56

        I agree with this exactly. So much self-righteous disrespectful stalker activity around here.

      • bobbified on 08/05/2021 - 22:06

        You sick of people giving you sh.t about not revving your Mustang over 4000rpm? 😋

  • 87percent on 07/05/2021 - 07:55
    +2

    Just hope you don’t end up on DCA on their “convenient cop” episode

  • NatoTomato on 07/05/2021 - 08:00
    +2

    Bikies, Camry, Eneloops

  • pegaxs on 07/05/2021 - 08:01
    +17

    Got a location of the incident at least so we can see what went on… I know it’s a meme, but pictures, diagrams and map references often make the difference between “pAy yOuR FiNe” and “maybe try…”

    To me, it sounds like you drove past cars that were waiting, you were on the wrong side of the road to turn into a street. If that’s the case, the copper is right. And it is multiple tickets because they can only write one ticket per sheet.

    • pegaxs on 07/05/2021 - 11:36

      Been doing some more digging and I am curious as to what fines they gave you. I cannot find two separate fines that are worth 3 demerits each that fit into your description. There should be some "codes" for each offence (5 digit code like: 82342) or a description that says "blah blah Road Rule 132 (2)…"

      Basically, I cant find two separate offences related to what you did and I am curious as to what they slugged you for… Something isn't adding up.

      • whitelie on 07/05/2021 - 12:33
        +1

        NSW penalty list here
        I could only think they both fall under Rule 132 (1 and 2)

        Rule 132(1) Not keep left of centre on two-way road - Penalty $349 and 2 points
        Rule 132(2) Not keep left of dividing line - Penalty $349 and 3 points

        Unless penalties have changed since July 2020 or OP isn't in Sydney as their profile says, something is a little off….

        • pegaxs on 07/05/2021 - 13:44

          ARR 132 (1) refers to there being no center line… "without a dividing line", but it seems OP had a dividing line based on the ticket.

          I was thinking ARR 134 (3) a, b or c (exceptions to keeping left), where OP was doing none of those things, but there seems to be no fine associated with that rule.

    • SlavOz on 08/05/2021 - 11:26
      -5

      Nobody here is a traffic law expert and even if they were they would likely just parrot whatever the majority of the thinktank says.

      Expecting OP to jump through hoops and provide further information just so he can be deemed worthy enough to be graced by Ozbargain's opinions is just laughable.

      • derrida derider on 08/05/2021 - 16:30

        Ooooh. You're right mate - nobody here is a traffic law expert.

        So OP should put it in the hands of experts. He should hire a top lawyer (better yet - a whole team!) have the case heard by a traffic law expert - the judge - and when he loses appeal all the way to the High Court.

        You really don't have to be much of an expert to see OP is daydreaming.

      • pegaxs on 08/05/2021 - 22:08

        @SlavOz: You forgot the Nazi Hitler white Trump incel male privilege Christian bigot card.

        All up your insult only contained around 2 of 3 buzzwords at the most. Poor effort.

  • theHMASfriendship on 07/05/2021 - 08:26
    +12

    Friend please drive on the correct side of the road.

    • Kangal on 07/05/2021 - 08:53
      -3

      This message applies to the whole world.
      Cars should be on the LHS, with the driver's seat on the Right. This ensures the dominant hand (Right) of the majority of people (>85%) in the world is always on the steering wheel. So our Support Hand (left) is free to shift the gears on manual… or to scroll through social media whilst driving

      • theHMASfriendship on 07/05/2021 - 09:38
        +4

        I personally use my left hand to write poetry.

        • RSmith on 07/05/2021 - 10:37
          +2

          And the right hand for… Oh wait, I don't want to know.

      • GG57 on 07/05/2021 - 11:15
        +2

        Apparently only about 30% of the world's population drives on the left side of the road.
        Does that mean that 85% of the other 70% of the world's population drive in a less that optimal manner?

        • fantombloo on 07/05/2021 - 13:09

          Yes they do. Not just the right hand but the right eye is generally more dominant too. Probably more appropriate in days past with more single lane roads (and here in Aus with our network of donkey tracks) but still.

          • Kangal on 07/05/2021 - 18:06

            @fantombloo: .
            You've pissed off some left-handed people. They're going to riot, all twelve of them ; )

            • banana365 on 07/05/2021 - 18:14

              @Kangal: How dare you slight us sinisters! I challenge you to a duel with swords! You'll not know how to handle a lefty swordsman and be soundly trounced!

              (though to be honest, I don't know how to handle a sword in my left hand or my right hand, so you're probably pretty safe)

      • Gaz1 on 07/05/2021 - 14:11
        +1

        Looks like Samoa took your advice:
        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/08/samoa-drivers-…

        • GG57 on 07/05/2021 - 14:57
          +2

          Nah, there was a lot of politics behind that decision. I am informed that a senior politician wanted to import RH-drive vehicles from NZ, rather than LH-drive from USA.
          It was mayhem for quite a while, as the buses (the only public transport) had doors that opened on the RH-side (which meant passengers were walking in the traffic to board / disembark).
          And whilst they did drive their vehicles on the other side of the road after this took effect, they still sat in the LH-side drivers seat, so no change to using their 'dominant' hand etc.

          • Gaz1 on 07/05/2021 - 15:02
            +1

            @GG57: Interesting. I assumed there must to a lot more to what seems like a very illogical change. I wonder how many accidents it caused? Can you image the cost of changing signs, road markings, etc. Unless you replace most of the cars on the road with RHD cars it really doesn't make any sense.

            • GG57 on 07/05/2021 - 15:18
              +2

              @Gaz1: Not too many accidents initially, thankfully, due to:
              - the whole country having a public holiday on the day of the change over, to limit the traffic on the road
              - the speed limit is only 40km/h in towns and villages and 55kmp/h on the open road, and those are rarely exceeded anyway
              - most people are pretty laid back and forgiving of other drivers' errors.
              It wasn't only cars though; all vehicles (trucks, buses, emergency vehicles, etc.) gradually changed over, but not for years.

              Probably more accidents in the longer term caused by driving an older vehicle from the 'wrong' side of the road.

      • kaleidoscope on 09/05/2021 - 08:00
        +1

        irrespective of side of driving the indicator should be on driver’s door side imo.

  • holdenmg on 07/05/2021 - 08:28

    Were you in some sort of emergency that necessitated driving like that…

    No?

    Just pay it.

  • jimbobaus on 07/05/2021 - 08:32
    +17

    My experience is in Victoria so not sure it will help.
    I turned right out of a Mcdonads and crossed a solid white line to do so
    The was apparently a no right turn sign in the Mcdonalds driveway but it had been knocked over so did not see it, when i was pulled over i admitted i had crossed the white line. Cop said fine would come in the mail.
    It eventually arrived and they double fined me, one for crossing the solid line and one for making an illegal right turn. I decided that two fines was a bit rich so i took it to court.
    On the day the police withdrew the illegal right turn fine (the more expensive fine) and when i fronted the Magistrate to get the other fine finalised, he agreed that my time was being wasted and that i was only in court due to the cop double dipping. He made the Solid white line fine $0 but i still had to wear the demirits.

    Might be worth fighting
    Point out you would not have come to court if the officer had issued a single infringement and that you feel its unfair that they double dipped.

    You might loose but then you are no worse off….. but you might win too :)

    • boomramada on 07/05/2021 - 08:53
      +3

      OP asking in a forum is a bad idea, I would fight for it for double dipping, 6 demerit point is a lot. If you have a clean record, that might help too.

      • valleyrain on 07/05/2021 - 09:01
        +2

        Your case is different as the cop wouldn't have been able to prove there was a no right turn sign as you admitted it had been knocked over. You still got the solid white line fine, which is what OP has been booked for in addition to driving on the wrong side of the road.

    • jorf on 07/05/2021 - 08:57
      +7

      You could argue in your case that the two fines were the result of a single action (ie. crossing the double line was a consequence of turning right).

      In OP's case, it sounds like he crossed the lines, then drove down a length of the road on the wrong side. I think two fines is pretty justifiable here, since it's two separate acts, even if they're related.

      • jimbobaus on 07/05/2021 - 11:04
        +1

        Pretty much what the magistrate said.. single action … one fine
        VicPol are not allowed to double dip.. cop knew that but did it anyways

        • Cheeper on 07/05/2021 - 11:14
          +1

          If you drove through a red light and was speeding and got fined for both would that be called double dipping?
          To me it is two offences.

          • jimbobaus on 07/05/2021 - 11:20
            +1

            @Cheeper: in my case even though there was no sign, the presence of a solid white line meant that it was no right turn.
            So the NRT was a given…. cop chose to fine me for both. Court and police prosecutor agreed it should not have happened.

            • AdosHouse on 07/05/2021 - 13:48
              +3

              @jimbobaus: Is it different in Vic? In QLD you may cross a solid white line to enter or leave a load, including from private property.

              • BartholemewH on 07/05/2021 - 17:03

                @AdosHouse: Same in NSW - allowed to enter or leave a driveway over solid line.

    • DashCam AKA Rolts on 07/05/2021 - 09:00
      +2

      You might loose lose

    • JimB on 07/05/2021 - 10:55
      +1

      Would this be the McDonalds in Mount Waverley?

      • jimbobaus on 07/05/2021 - 10:56

        Close ;)

        Ringwood one

        • JimB on 07/05/2021 - 12:34

          Good on you for beating the system.

          I've always wondered if the right turn was enforceable because I wasn't sure if it was placed there by McDonalds or Vic Roads.

          I won't turn right anymore on the 'No Right Turn' haha

          • jimbobaus on 07/05/2021 - 12:59

            @JimB: At the ringwood mcdonalds they have put a second driverway further down the road (more stores to be built later on) which is legal to turn right from.. the one closest to Marrondah Highway is still NRT in or out and its def Vicroads

        • carboncider on 09/05/2021 - 00:48

          Can't say ive always followed the no right turn on this one especially when getting a late night snack

    • macrocephalic on 07/05/2021 - 11:27
      -1

      But you're allowed to cross a single white line to make a turn. In NSW (not sure about others) you're allowed to cross a double white line to turn into or out of a property by the shortest route. It sounds like you still got ripped off.

      • jimbobaus on 07/05/2021 - 11:54

        Offence was valid.. technically both were

    • MondaySleeper on 07/05/2021 - 12:01
      +3

      "a solid white line to do so"… singe or double line? VIC roads says you can cross single line to enter/leave the road.

      • jimbobaus on 07/05/2021 - 12:04

        yeah double…. sleepy dude over here

        • MondaySleeper on 07/05/2021 - 12:11
          +2

          Thanks for the clarification. I was scratching my head and thought 'Its time for me to take the road rule book and learn again. Has been a while since I had a look at it'. :)

          yes, that was the offence. In NSW, you can cross double line to Enter/Leave. Different states and different laws. Sooooo confusing……

    • DoctorCalculon on 07/05/2021 - 20:20
      -1

      You might loose but then you are no worse off

      Not true. The OP will then have to pay both fines + court costs.

      • jimbobaus on 07/05/2021 - 21:53
        +4

        Funny side story, when i have a day off i like to go to the MC and watch cases in the main court…. always taken an interest in our justice system.
        I even have AUSTLII on my phone and read verdicts before bed.
        in all my time going to our local court i have never once seen a persron who lost a infringement case get costs awarded against them.
        Police never ask for them…. Magistrate never applies them
        At worse (and also very rare) if you lose your risk an increase in the fine, magistrate is not tied to the amount on the ticket he/she can make it what ever they want within set limits.

        • pegaxs on 10/05/2021 - 20:11

          I fought a ticket in court and had to pay costs. It was magistrate’s court, and it was capped at something like $60ish, but the original fine was waived and I was slapped with a 3 month good behaviour bond. (I parked less than 1m into a no stopping area in a dead end street at 10pm on a Sunday night.)

          It was well worth the cost just to experience the justice system and how it treats people.

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