Regret Buying 1br at Auction for $749k :(

dualcore on 09/12/2020 - 13:44

Hey everyone,

I feel a bit disgusted with myself. After several months of property searching and bargain hunting, and watching property prices increase and all those bargains disappear, I decided I'm going to buy a property no matter what by the end of this year.

I live in Sydney. I want a place close to work (in Surry Hills), and I own a car so I wanted parking. I have lived in the Alexandria area previously and really like the area, and think there's future investment property as Redfern becomes more gentrified. My other criteria is (1) low density; max 3 storeys, (2) no major building issues, and (3) <15min walk to Redfern station (which has the north shore line; which I take regularly).

There was only 1 (yes, one) 1/1/1 unit that met the above criteria in Alexandria. Everything else was either high density concrete boxes, had serious building issues, or were not the location I wanted.

This unit was beautiful. It's north-east facing, super light-filled, it's top floor, it was built in 2014 and is loaded with amenities like correctly-sized ducted air conditioning (kept it cool in a 40c day), and has a reasonably big balcony. The location is also good for me, because I can walk to redfern station in 13 minutes.

I went to auction, and I ended up paying $749k for the price. The other bidder was $746k. I am really regretting it because I'm really a bargain hunter at heart, and I feel disgusted for spending so much time to save $10 or whatnot, I ended up spending so much money for an (admittedly nice) 1br apartment. It is auction so I do not have a cooling off period and cannot back out.

I can afford it fine, but I just… feel bad. Has any OzBargainer spent more than they wanted to on property? How do you get over it?

Home & Garden

Comments

  • CyberMurning on 09/12/2020 - 13:45
    +105

    wait for 10 years and when you see how much you can sell it then you will feel happy

    • netjock on 09/12/2020 - 14:05
      +33

      For it to double it means the single or couple buying will need at least 20% pay rise. I'd say combined income north of $200k pa with zero debt. You might be never be able to buy another place without selling this place.

      It is exactly where the government and the banks want us. You'll barely make it onto the ladder for a 1BR in your mid 20s. 30 or so need to have a kid so can barely afford a 2BR after selling your 1BR, then you want more kids sell and get a 3BR. Unless you exit the market completely and move to regional.

      There is a saying in London (UK) once you sell up in London you'll never get back into the market.

      • Chandler on 10/12/2020 - 13:46

        Unless you exit the market completely and move to regional.

        Come to Brisbane - 4br lowset 600 sqm, small quiet street <20k from CBD for $600k in 2015

        • netjock on 10/12/2020 - 14:06
          +10

          $600k in 2015

          What is the price now?

          • Yawhae on 11/12/2020 - 05:30
            +3

            @netjock: Probably about 700k. Prices have gone up about 100k in 5 years.

            • netjock on 11/12/2020 - 10:11
              +2

              @Yawhae: Not a bad place to retire then. Better than being shivering in the cold down south in Sydney and Melbourne.

              • cameldownunder on 11/12/2020 - 10:34

                @netjock: "De gustibus non est disputandum"

                I prefer change of season, and not only the Dry-Wet.

                Less Snakes, Crocodiles, Jelly Box

                • Chandler on 11/12/2020 - 10:39
                  +4

                  @cameldownunder: Don't see too many snakes, no crocodiles (apart from the zoo) and while I don't got to the beach too often I have never seen jelly boxes there, and rarely a box jellyfish.

            • jleno on 11/12/2020 - 19:06
              -1

              @Yawhae: $100K in 5 years (that's before stamp duty and borrowing costs). Not sure that constitutes a great (or even good) investment.

          • Chandler on 11/12/2020 - 10:37

            @netjock: A nearby, similarly designed but smaller (both in land and internally) home sold for $550k.

          • Pascal on 10/09/2021 - 23:11

            @netjock: Paid 760 few months ago, 11k from CBD. 1970 highset double brick in good knick with 5yo solar and solid 80s built in ground pool on 600m2 block.

      • ratman on 12/12/2020 - 08:48

        What do you mean 'need' to have a kid?

        • Allwentmarching on 20/12/2020 - 18:02
          -2

          Im guessing they mean if you want to have a child you dont have infinite fertility. Womens fertility drops after 35, mens starts to in their 40s.

    • techlead on 10/12/2020 - 13:11
      +8

      But don't work out the opportunity cost (ie what other investments made in 10 years), you will feel bad again haha. Ignorance is bliss lol

      Property investment has not been the best returning asset for the last 10 years (not even close), it surely will not for the next 10 years.

      • netjock on 10/12/2020 - 14:10
        +3

        But don't work out the opportunity cost

        You mean like all these 100x crypto people on OzB.

        Property investment has not been the best returning asset for the last 10 years (not even close)

        Of course not. It just feels like a lot of money when you bought it for $300k in 2008 and now it just sold for $600k and suddenly you feel like there is $300k profit. It is only a profit if you walk away from the property market completely otherwise you can't buy back in after REA costs and having to pay stamp duty on the new one, that is provided the bank is willing to lend you more money because the problem is your wages may have already peaked.

        Parent's now having to give their children a good part of their life savings to get them into the market. read this article

        People not going on holidays due to COVID19 now have money to bid big on property. Sure fire way to never go on holiday again.

        • techlead on 10/12/2020 - 14:21

          Yep, spot on and its more than 100x.

          I started buying Bitcoin in 2013 and has been using the dollar cost average strategy, buying more Bitcoin periodically and continue to do so. It worked out much better than any investment property.

          That's why I laugh every time someone buys property for "investment", they must not like money because if they do, they wouldn't be buying property as an investment lmao.

          • netjock on 10/12/2020 - 15:11
            +1

            @techlead: Not arguing for investment property but here is how the scheme works.

            Take $20k and borrow $80k to buy a $100k property. In 7 - 10 years (the marketing) it doubles. Therefore your $20k has turned into $120k. You sell for $200k then you use your $120k as deposit and borrow 80% and hopefully the next 7 - 10 years the same thing happens.

            You got to be brave enough to put $20k into bitcoin which would be $2m if you do 100x

            In 2014 CSL was $33 (right in the middle of the Eurozone debt crisis) now it is $300 but you need to be brave enough to drop $100k in, now you you'll be on $1m. Way better than property.

            • techlead on 10/12/2020 - 15:21
              -1

              @netjock: In other words, leverage, but even with so much leverage, Bitcoin is still better.

              $33 to $300 is nothing, my very first Bitcoin buy was around $850USD. Today, Bitcoin is $18300USD. No matter how you look at it, there's no scenario where you are better off with property from 2013 till now than with Bitcoin.

              Also, in your property scenario, don't forget stamp duty and all the maintenance costs (strata, land tax, council fees etc etc). Hodling cost for Bitcoin is $0 and now the market has matured to a point where you can actually get interest for your Bitcoin.

              • netjock on 10/12/2020 - 15:25
                +4

                @techlead: Sorry to tell you but bitcoin really isn't an investment. It is just money pumping into a limited supply. There is a fixed number of bitcoin and more demand means price must go up.

                Bitcoin fails the investment test as much as property. Perception of supply constraints. Bitcoin investors really need to look at history where people have cornered and gold / silver market, it always ends up in tears when people find other substitutes.

                • techlead on 10/12/2020 - 15:27

                  @netjock: I think Bitcoin will plateau as it matures, in the meantime, I'm happy to enjoy the ride. It will reach $100k USD easily in the upcoming bull run.

                  • MrFrugalSpend on 10/12/2020 - 22:38
                    +4

                    @techlead: indeed - crypto, like ponzi schemes, make some people rich on the ride up… just don't be there when the steam / buyers runs out.

                    It's got little practical use as a currency because currency is a form of transportability of resources / effort. To do so, you need a level of stability and its too volatile - Rapid growth would be like inflation and make it pointless - I.e. If Party A agrees to build a building for 1 million bitcoin for Party B but it is a year long project - the price of bitcoin doubles in that time, one party would be severely disadvantaged as they progress the project and pay the bills to deliver on project delivery over the year, and likely go broke if they were trying to work using bitcoin.

                    The only reason you are making money on the way up is because other people are buying it at higher prices due to a perceived value. Therefore, the value is simply in hoping someone else will later pay you more real money for it… a nice neat smart and for now legal alternative to a ponzi scheme for the early investors to profit of the latecomers until someone is left holding a bunch of 0s and 1s that no wants to pay more for so it will inevitably at very least, plateau, or worse, fall drastically.

                    If it were a real currency, the concept doesn't even make sense, its like saying, I'm going to invest in money. It's not like you are lending your real money to a bank to lend out and pay interest on it, no, you are just buying currency in the hope someone will later pay you more for it…. because they really want it because maybe someone else will want to pay them more for it later and so on… lol

                    Sorry, but its still just good old irrational exuberance.

                    To think it even slightly stacks up to Property Investment is like comparing earning a living wage to gambling for money.

                    At the end of the day, original miners / holders still hold large chunks and can manipulate the market too.

                    • techlead on 10/12/2020 - 23:37
                      +1

                      @MrFrugalSpend: First, its clear you know little about the crypto markets. Being a currency is not its only use case, I agree Bitcoin is not good as a currency at the moment and I don't treat it as one, its use has evolved over time, now its more like digital gold, a hedge against inflation. Crypto has many more use cases, for example smart contracts, immutable data stores and oracles to name a few.

                      Some would argue that the property market is a ponzi scheme. For it to be profitable, the price must continue to go up due to the high maintenance cost. If property prices stagnant, then you'd make a loss due to all of the maintenance costs. A property being $500k then 5 year later with no modifications or renovations is sold for $800k is also irrational exuberance, the intrinsic value of that property has not changed, its only the perceived value. Property investment/speculation is also gambling. The bull market of 2015-2017 was driven by debt, there's no fundamentals behind it, so it was only a matter of time before it ran out of steam, just like a ponzi. The only reason why property prices hasn't totally collapsed is because the government is throwing everything including the kitchen sink at it to prop it up.

                      Easy money with interest rates at record low, federal government ignoring the banking royal commission's recommendations and planning to relax responsible leading laws and potential changes to stamp duty in NSW, property prices should be rocketing up pushing all time highs, yet it is barely staying stagnate.

                      • netjock on 11/12/2020 - 10:20

                        @techlead:

                        Being a currency is not its only use case, I agree Bitcoin is not good as a currency at the moment and I don't treat it as one, its use has evolved over time, now its more like digital gold, a hedge against inflation. Crypto has many more use cases, for example smart contracts, immutable data stores and oracles to name a few.

                        Not good as a currency so why is it going up and who is making it go up? Just be prepared to exit and never look back at a moment's notice.

                        "Use case" I've heard that pitch since like 10 years ago. A few of the investment banks created their own crypto for settling contract between themselves. For bitcoin to benefit it needs to earn royalties of some sort? You are invested in bitcoin not other user cases. It is just like our currency can be written on but the reason for holding Australian dollars isn't the fact it can also be used to write on and pass information to other parties.

                        This about smart contracts and data stores. No business in their right mind would be storing it onto a public block chain. You would still have your own data centre or cloud provider that is reputable and secure.

                        Working closely with IT I can say with 80% certainty that 80% of the cutting edge stuff won't have much real life application. It is only a few innovations that will enhance our lifestyle and rest is just noise. Have a look at Uber, they have sold their automated driving division to a start up (retaining a stake) and air taxis too. So it all comes back down to basically a taxi service with an app to deliver people and food. Interesting way to burn billions of USD.

                  • Ti-au on 11/12/2020 - 12:37
                    +1

                    @techlead: $18k to $100k?

                    so double, then double and then extra again?

                    yeah ok.

                    Big holders ('insiders') are selling to institutions, so I highly doubt that the price will rise massively.

                    • techlead on 11/12/2020 - 12:41
                      -1

                      @Ti-au: You don't think its possible? Just wait and see lol.

                      Being in Bitcoin since 2013, I've heard it all. First it was 1000USD, yea right, "never gonna happen keep dreaming". Bitcoin smashes $1000USD, but $10k USD will never happen. ($1000 to $10000 is double, then double, then double, then something extra, $1000 x 2 x 2 x 2 + $2000) <= "Yea, never gonna happen, right" :D

                      Price right now, $17,947.88 USD. :D

                      According to Bitcoin Obituaries it has died 341 times haha.

                      • Ti-au on 11/12/2020 - 12:44

                        @techlead: You need pent up demand. Big holders ('insiders') are selling to institutions, so I highly doubt that the price will rise massively.
                        (why do you think voli has been falling, which is needed to get big swings in prices has been falling in cyrpto assets).

                        • techlead on 11/12/2020 - 12:48

                          @Ti-au: As any asset matures, volatility reduces. It happens to any market, whether it be gold, some penny stock or other commodity.

                          Looking at Bitcoin's rise from $0.10USD, with each cycle the price range will reduce and we can already see this over the last 10 years of its existence.

                          The market cap of Bitcoin is only $333 billion, that's a drop in the ocean, I reckon it will easily go to $1 trillion and that's a very conservative estimate.

                          Price rises for Bitcoin will reduce and I expect that. I have a strategy to offload my cryptos in the upcoming bull market. I will diversify into shares, maybe even property investment, but I will do the maths on that first.

                          • netjock on 11/12/2020 - 20:27
                            +1

                            @techlead:

                            The market cap of Bitcoin is only $333 billion, that's a drop in the ocean, I reckon it will easily go to $1 trillion and that's a very conservative estimate.

                            People going to push $1 trillion into an asset that doesn't generate a cashflow, with gold at least you can take physical delivery. With Bitcoin you get it on a $2 USB stick from Officeworks. (Cold storage)

                            • techlead on 11/12/2020 - 20:34
                              +1

                              @netjock: Very few people take physical delivery of gold and have heard of intangible assets? Just because you can't touch it, doesn't mean it doesn't have value.

                              You are a couple of years too late lmao, cold storage is not a $2 USB stick. The most secure way is via a hardware wallet, which costs around $50 for the basic model. You get a 24/48 word seed phrase from which your wallet can be derived from. So even if someone steals that USB thing (hardware wallet), it doesn't matter, your coins are secure, you just buy another blank hardware wallet and restore your coin via the seed phrase. You can further secure it with a PIN which only you know, so even if someone steal your seed phrase, they can't steal your coins.

                              It's amazing that we hear about bank hacks with relative frequency yet we still trust them, the Bitcoin network itself hasn't been hacked since its existence, some people don't trust it. Good thing those kind of people are decreasing.

                              The rise of the internet is a great example, there was alot of nay sayers, not many people expected or envisaged the internet in its current form today back in the late 80s and early 90s. This is where crypto is at, most people in that period had no idea what the internet is or thought it was a fad.

                              • netjock on 11/12/2020 - 20:52
                                -1

                                @techlead:

                                Very few people take physical delivery of gold and have heard of intangible assets?

                                But you can take physical delivery, that is the difference.

                                You are a couple of years too late lmao, cold storage is not a $2 USB stick. The most secure way is via a hardware wallet, which costs around $50 for the basic model.

                                That is your tangible asset. Okay mate. Just like the guy who has all his bitcoin in a hard drive in the tip

                                • techlead on 11/12/2020 - 21:11
                                  +1

                                  @netjock: Again, my point is intangible assets exist. Something doesn't have to be tangible to have value.

                                  That guy in the story stopped mining and broke his laptop into parts in 2013. Around the time I started buying Bitcoin actually. It was such a pain back then. I had to transfer AUD overseas which took more than a week. Even back then I knew not to keep my Bitcoins on the exchange, so I withdrew it immediately onto an old laptop I had. Bitcoin has come along way since then, both in the network itself and the support services around it, like exchanges.

                                  Nowadays the risk of what happened to that guy in the story is extremely low if you know what you are doing, but I'm sure there are still a lot of people losing their cryptos through their own stupidity, either forgetting their passwords or being scammed. Better for me as it will reduce the circulating supply of Bitcoin.

                                  My hardware wallet is only worth $20 (with depreciation), my intangible assets (the coins in it) is worth a lot more. If my hardware wallet is stolen, I wouldn't even care, I can easily restore it and the person who took it can't touch my coins. Technology improves over time. :D

                                  • Ti-au on 13/12/2020 - 16:24

                                    @techlead: what happens if you die?

                                    How do you pass on to who you want?

                                    legitimately interested in your reply.

                                    • techlead on 13/12/2020 - 19:57

                                      @Ti-au: I'm not going to reveal too much, but I've already thought about this very carefully.

                                      I have multiple fail safes that will send the right information to my beneficiaries. How to restore the coins, where all my other assets are at etc etc.

                                      • Ti-au on 13/12/2020 - 22:13

                                        @techlead: Is it a electronic dead man trigger or something like that? Seems a bit of work tbh.

                                        I have researched and found the answers disappointing so far.

                                        encrypt & 2 people share 50% of the key is best i think. With a 3rd person knowing how many bitcoin (so the first 2 can't steal it)?

                                        I mean physical security is rather easy - mini fireproof lockbox or bank vault deposit, which would be pretty standard for people with a lot of crypto assets, but death is far harder.

                                        I always find it ironic that people are so scared to lose their bitcoin from people they know and then you ask them where it is and its in a wallet with shitty exchange located in China or Burma (high risk) or in a bank deposit box (ultimate high security) but too scared to tell someone (because someone is going to wear a wig and fool the staff? - and ignore the finger scanner.).

                                        • techlead on 14/12/2020 - 08:31

                                          @Ti-au: Its definitely not on any exchange. I consider that as a "hot wallet". Even places where I'm getting interest for my crypto, that's a "hot wallet".

                                          Its an electronic dead man trigger which sends on a future date unless I extend it. I will keep extending it as long as I'm alive. I don't need to tell multiple people, I just have 6 independent sources for sending those messages. 3 has one half, 3 has the other half, for redundancy.

                                          No one said crypto will not take work or knowledge to interact with. Do you think the internet started out being this easy to use? Have you ever fiddled with a 28.8k or 56k dial up modem? All the settings you have to set etc etc?

                                          • Ti-au on 15/12/2020 - 01:57

                                            @techlead: yeah I dealt with 28.8k or 56k modems - at least i bypassed cartridges and went straight to a shoebox sized $500 50MB hard drive.
                                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV8DEJ8ydJQ

                                            is there some web service u use or something? I remember reading about a service that used a ledger and used a dead man trigger but it closed down.

                                            • techlead on 15/12/2020 - 10:48

                                              @Ti-au: You don't need to directly link it to Ledger or Trezor, all you need is find a way to convey the 24/48 ordered word combination along with any pins.

                                              I just use different web services which allow me to schedule emails, parts of the key are stored there encrypted with a password only the recipient knows.

                                              With that info, the person can use my old hardware wallet or just get a new one and restore.

                        • techlead on 11/12/2020 - 16:03

                          @Ti-au: Voli is decreasing because its coiling up for a bit moonshot. Its quite common and seen it before.

                          Bitcoin is already beyond the moon, so I will see you on Mars, I'd probably sell at that point, but I think it has the potential to escape the solar system ($1 mil for a Bitcoin), but that will take long, probably as long as property investments to turn a decent profit haha.

              • cameldownunder on 10/12/2020 - 16:19
                +1

                @techlead: Ha Ha the 1 in 10000 people who had a win.

                Similar to me going to the casino, and finding a system to win the game. Works till it does not work anymore

                I plaid on the Currency exchange difference market, and made a lot of money, and then lost a lot of money and then lost some more money.
                It's the first time I am saying I did lose money … there you go

                We never hear from the people who lose 100th of K's in the Crypto Currency game.

                • techlead on 10/12/2020 - 16:29
                  -6

                  @cameldownunder: CFD is very different to buying crypto straight up. I'd say CFD is similar to crypto trading on leverage, Bybit on 100x leverage etc. I think most people lost money with those, its designed to be short term bets. There is a cost to maintaining your position through interest and margin capital.

                  This is very different to buying and hodling Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. I dabbled in leverage crypto trading, lost the $1000 I deposited and never touched it again.

                  If someone bought Bitcoin virtually anytime in history (apart from the brief period in 2017), they are in profit right now. Of course, if they bought for $19kUSD in 2017 and then sold at the trough of the bear market at $3400USD, they've lost money, the question would be why didn't they hodl? There's no cost to holding Bitcoin unless they bought with money they can't afford to lose, in which case, its on them really.

                  For someone like me who has bought since 2013 and only sold a little tiny bit here and there, but for the most part hodl'ed, we are all very much in profit, there's zero chance people like us are in the red.

                  So it depends on which "crypto game" you are referring to. Leveraged positions, definitely, I'd say majority of people lose money, but if they buy straight up crypto and hodl, not many lost money. Unless of course they bought into the scam coins like Bitconnect, Davor, Onecoin etc etc, if we restrict it to Bitcoin or even ETH, not many people have lost money.

                  Also, we never hear from people who have lost money on property. Have you seen those "price withheld" entries? I'd take a guess, the price wouldn't have been that great if it was withheld haha.

        • cameldownunder on 11/12/2020 - 10:43

          Property investment has not been the best returning asset for the last 10 years (not even close)

          I would say 4 years.

          We did buy a house ( for ourselves ) back in 2012 ( 8 Years ) and it has more than doubled in price.

          At the same time I had to sell NVIDIA shares in value of 50'000, about $15 at the time, now they are at $550. They would be now 1'830.00.

          There are several issues with this:
          1) I probably would have sold them at $230, making my gain not look as big
          2) Even with the additional 1'830K I am not sure if we could afford a house where we are living now
          2.1) The house might not have gotten for sale again, and the one around us are not as nice / suited for us/
          3) Since 8 years we don't get harassed by landlord and rental agency
          4) I can do whatever I want in our house ( From putting up pictures, to replace carpet with floorboards, to painting walls in a different colour )

          • netjock on 11/12/2020 - 12:13

            @cameldownunder:

            We did buy a house ( for ourselves ) back in 2012 ( 8 Years ) and it has more than doubled in price.

            At the same time I had to sell NVIDIA shares in value of 50'000, about $15 at the time, now they are at $550. They would be now 1'830.00.

            You forgot to mention your whole suburb plus surrounding 6 suburbs more than doubled in price.

            Just because a share doubles all the adjacent ones don't have to double with it.

            You also forget about leverage. If you put your deposit and anyone was willing to lend you LTV 80% in NVIDIA shares I'd think it would be a very different story.

            • cameldownunder on 11/12/2020 - 17:16

              @netjock: Interesting concept buying with leverage: On houses even if the value "Drops", the government made sure that no hose was sold, if the owner would pay the mortgage, while if you are getting a limit call on your shares, you either pay in or you lose it.

              You forgot to mention your whole suburb plus surrounding 6 suburbs more than doubled in price.

              True True, and the average also increases because "old" houses are knocked down, and 6Br,3Bath and 5 car monstersa re build instead.

              Just because a share doubles all the adjacent ones don't have to double with it.

              If there is a bull market, all shares tend to go up

              If one share in a specific market does well, then other shares in the same market tend to go up in price.

              If Gold goes up, then silver goes up, even if they are only Adjacent.

          • techlead on 11/12/2020 - 12:57

            @cameldownunder: I don't deny the benefits of owning your own home, I enjoy it too and I'm a big advocate of that.

            My criticism is around property investment, so by definition, you wouldn't be living in it so points 2-4 are moot. Point 1 is your personal choice lol. You have no one else to blame for your weak hands but yourself, its like those people who bought Bitcoin at $0.50 and sold at $2, its their fault lol, noone forced them to sell.

            I'm purely comparing investing in property and Bitcoin, because that was the choice I had to make in 2013, buy Bitcoin or property (second, third, fourth property etc). I'm glad I chose Bitcoin.

            I can't speak for other people, but me personally, I first bought Bitcoin at around $850USD and continued to periodically buy, I have not sold 99% of it and its at $17,947.88 today. When it went to $3400USD, I kept buying more. Diamond hands haha. This is not a fluke or some random event like lottery, I consciously chose to do this. Its even different to some guy who bought and mined Bitcoin on a whim and forgot about it. I started tracking in in 2009 when it first came out and believed in it enough to buy it in 2013 and continued to do so ever since.

            • kasp on 12/12/2020 - 17:55

              @techlead: @techlead

              The issue with bitcoin is it is completely unregulated. It took hundreds of years for people to master money and now there is a new one in town which is run like the wild west. The amount of dodgy stuff there is just staggering.

              Regulation will be the death of bitcoin. The fact is every exchange except for say Coinbase and Kraken has close links to Crypto Capital Corp and because of that it makes them too shady. Then you have Stablecoins and in particular Tether which isrun by the same people who run Bitfenix and is literally pumping billions of dollars into the market. They claim they are backed but we know from a court case years ago they only had about 70%. I am guessing that figure is much worse now. There are lots of roads to put money into crypto but extremely few to cash out.

              It is just completely driven by market manipulation right now and those exchanges really impact all exchanges. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3195066 It's pretty undeniable.

              Then you have the other players like Ethereum but it is just silly, it's a proof of concept and nothing more noone can legitimately use it as contracts are determined by the governing laws. No government in their right mind would use Ethereum but thats not to say they might use something similar to it. However how does owning some tokens of a proof of concept hold any value?

              None of this says you can't make money from it but it is extremely high risk. To me it is just a matter of time before the bubble pops. My guess is when there just is no more real cash in the system and miners can no longer get money out but right now to me it appears to be a ponzi.

      • cameldownunder on 10/12/2020 - 16:15
        +2

        It's not like OP has lost the money. OP invested.
        Other story if he would have gone to the casino with 300K and lost it all.

        it surely will not for the next 10 years.

        I feel for people that are living from investments: Property is slow and risky, and the share market is booming and has never been as high as now ( which is an indicator for adjustment )

        • techlead on 10/12/2020 - 16:30

          Depends on your definition of "lost the money". The people who bought at the peak in 2017, definitely "lost money" both in monetary terms and opportunity cost terms, eg if they had invested in something else in 2017, they could have made more money, so that can be considered a "loss".

          • cameldownunder on 11/12/2020 - 10:27

            @techlead: "Lost the money" > Spent on quick depreciating objects ( like buying a new car ), spending it on overly expensive holidays ( First class ticket, and 5 start Resort ), Gambling, bodily pleasures, and drug abuse, giving it to relatives or charity.

            eg if they had invested in something else in 2017

            "If I had wheels I would be a bus" Said my grandma. With "IF's" everything is possible.

            It is 2020, not 2017, and in 1 year, we all be wiser.

        • netjock on 11/12/2020 - 10:26

          Property is slow and risky

          It is basically a long term finance lease on a hotel of your choice. People have it wrong way around. If property prices were quite static and went up with inflation then having some where to live isn't an issue (might not be mansion you expect) but the problem is people full leverage getting 3% gross rental return and having negative cashflow for 15 years is a problem.

          Even the index is paying a better return than property. I believe people should by a place to live but buying a second family home as an investment when you are struggling to rent out to struggling renters, that is just fanciful thinking anything good is going to come of it.

          • cameldownunder on 11/12/2020 - 10:31
            +2

            @netjock:

            I believe people should by a place to live

            This. And only this.

            Lot of "friends" have "investment" properties, and I have to zip tight my lips, because if I let go, I would thell them that they are scummbags, trying to make money at expenses of other people living standards.

            Go and speculate and Gold, Shares, Bitcoin. Stuff that does not impact people's life. Speculating on Real Estate ( in particular residential ) is so wrong on so many sides.

            • techlead on 11/12/2020 - 11:39

              @cameldownunder: Our views are pretty aligned haha. I believe in the value of buying to live in and properties should not be a vehicle for speculation. Shelter is essential, it shouldn't be used as an investment for people to speculation on. If Bitcoin or gold goes to $0, only investors of Bitcoin or gold are affected, but when property prices are out of whack, the entire economy is affected.

              Unfortunately, the government don't see it this way which implies that the people don't think this way either as they had a chance to change the status quo with property in the last federal election (of course there are other factors, but I think ALP's policy of grandfathering negative gearing is a major contributing factor to their loss).

              • netjock on 11/12/2020 - 12:18

                @techlead:

                If Bitcoin or gold goes to $0, only investors of Bitcoin or gold are affected, but when property prices are out of whack, the entire economy is affected.

                If it doesn't go to zero then it has a confidence impact on people's spending. That is why the government keeps on bailing out the share market (so companies can continue to access capital to keep jobs) and the property market (so people aren't forced to sell and destroy their spending power). Two very different reasons.

                people don't think this way either as they had a chance to change the status quo with property in the last federal election

                Because everyone aspires to own an investment property or wants to protect their investment for property. For shares it was franking credit refunds. Big refunds are only a minority of investors. People never read the detail they have these allergic reactions to simple headlines.

                • techlead on 11/12/2020 - 12:34

                  @netjock: Ahh yes, the franking credits policy too.

                  The ALP's mistake was that they looked at it too logically without factoring the fact that people will not look at the details. They looked at the grandfathering negative gearing and only considered the number of people it actually impact, without factoring in aspiring home owners/investors (people who have drank the Koolaid) would be against it as well. That's why even low income earners voted Liberal, when if they did the maths, they are actually voting against their own interest.

                  Same thing for the shares franking credit refunds, on paper it only affects a small number of people, but they fail to factor in that a whole lot of other people who thinks they may be in that position in the future (but will never get there due to how the economy is structured) will also be against the policy. Look at the median wage in Australia, don't think they'd be buying any median properties (around a $1mil for house in Sydney) anytime soon.

                  Also, the ALP made a huge mistake by having actual detailed policies which can be picked apart, they should have went with the Abbott strategy, just say no, "I'm not the other guy". haha

                  I'm looking forward to the Phase 3 tax cuts though haha. If ScoMo pulls off a win at the next election, which looks likely at the moment, I will personally benefit greatly, but I reckon it would be detrimental to society as a whole to cut taxes so much.

      • congo on 12/12/2020 - 16:12

        Property investment is low risk. Plus you can negative gear and lower your income tax..

        You would need big balls to put $800K into Bitcoin or BHP/Commbank/Telstra shares…

    • Ciderfizz44 on 11/12/2020 - 11:03

      Very rarely the the case with apartments.

    • VW-29 on 11/12/2020 - 12:34
      +3

      Oh god, the financial literacy of some people is terrible. He paid a premium price for a 1bd unit. With excessive oversupply of apartments it’s guaranteed they’ll lose money in 10 years time.

      • dualcore on 11/12/2020 - 16:49
        +1

        is there a oversupply of 3 storey apartments? the street itself isn't getting DAs for >3 storeys, but reviewing all the recent developments around the area, they are MUCH higher density.. like 5 storey, 7 storey, 9….

  • [Deactivated] on 09/12/2020 - 13:47
    +127

    I can afford it fine, but I just… feel bad

    queue tiny violin

    • [Deactivated] on 09/12/2020 - 14:26
      +19

      Cue, qué?

      • SF3 on 09/12/2020 - 15:07
        +5

        [F7] Passed Spell check , Passed Grammer check…

        Tiny 🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻 queue

  • mcyike on 09/12/2020 - 13:48
    +169

    Weird flex but ok.

    • SF3 on 09/12/2020 - 15:08
      +5

      only dualcore…

  • Jolakot on 09/12/2020 - 13:48
    +15

    Eh, with property you can't always get a bargain, as long as you're paying similar to what you could get for it, then it's not that bad.

    • Jackson on 09/12/2020 - 17:51
      +17

      Especially considering a bargain is mainly had when it's run down, needs work, and you're handy or have mates that can sort it out cut price.

      There's no bargains for new immaculate flats that are sun drenched with views.

      OP: Property is a long game. It sounds like if you spent that long analysing and went for a new unit you weren't up for a fixer upper, so you got as good a deal as you are going to get. buy a case of beer and a bbq and invite some friends over and get over it. Don't forget that "Yesterday's expensive is tomorrow's cheap", the truest thing in the sydney property market. I couldn't count on both hands the number of people who overanalysed, held out, and missed booms and then couldn't ever bring themselves to pay more than what they missed out on to get in

      • Smol Cat on 11/12/2020 - 12:49

        That’s a pretty good perspective, thanks

      • mun4 on 13/12/2020 - 14:16

        But realistically, can we really foresee another boom in the next 5yrs though? What could possibly be driving it? I'll be thankful if it's just a 10% drop.

  • Drakesy on 09/12/2020 - 13:49
    +80

    And this is why Australia's real estate market is cooked.
    FOMO is real.

  • skid on 09/12/2020 - 13:49
    +4

    Yes, by 40k and got over it by blaming the REA in my mind.

    Seriously, Alexandria is a good location. You can't go wrong no matter what you paid for it. Pretty sure in five or so years, you'd be laughing at the bargain you got.

    • syousef on 09/12/2020 - 19:43
      +20

      The 1970s called and wants its advice back.

      When wages mean that people can't afford the property demand sinks. You will hit a point at which growth will be minimal, if we haven't already.

      Debt is slavery. But so is renting.

      • john71 on 10/12/2020 - 07:33
        +18

        Renting allows me to live in an large, expensive house ten minutes by public transport from my job in the CBD and ten minutes by foot to a big shopping centre and my kids' public school - which is one of the state's best.

        Meanwhile, the three-bedder that I own in the suburbs has none of those qualities. I just rent it out to folks less picky than I.

        You do hold peculiar notions of what constitutes slavery. Renting for me has been freedom.

        • syousef on 10/12/2020 - 09:02
          +11

          …right up until your landlord kicks you out with little notice. Then you find yourself taking whatever you can wherever you can and you and your children commuting and moving, then doing it again when you find somewhere better..

          Renting isn't freedom. You're not even free to hang a picture or fix a bookshelf to the wall without consent. You're only free to let strangers into your home regularly for inspections.

          You can tell me you don't care about these things, but you won't convince me that renting is freedom anytime soon.

          • gee-man on 10/12/2020 - 09:49
            +22

            @syousef: Yes, in the end it’s someone else’s property. You can’t put window tint on your hire car either. But like John said, renting gives him a freedom of choice. Not everything is perfectly black and white.

            This new way of abusing language is really getting annoying. Not everything is Nazis and slavery.

            • starspawn on 10/12/2020 - 10:41
              +5

              @gee-man: Agreed! I'm getting sick of people telling renters like myself that it's slavery.

              • syousef on 10/12/2020 - 14:55

                @starspawn: Likewise I'll draw your attention to the fact that this sentiment is at least 2000+ years old.

              • Ti-au on 11/12/2020 - 12:55

                @starspawn: but it is.

                And I rent.

            • syousef on 10/12/2020 - 14:54

              @gee-man: I didn't mention Nazis and if you think "debt is slavery" is a "new way of abusing language" I suggest you read more. "Debt is the slavery of the free" is a quote from Publilius Syrus (fl. 85–43 BC[1]), So yeah over 2000 years old.

          • Mistredo on 10/12/2020 - 10:28
            +7

            @syousef: Renters will come up with reasons why it is better to rent, and owners will come up with reasons why it is better to buy.

            It is very individual. There are benefits to both.

            • syousef on 10/12/2020 - 14:56

              @Mistredo: I am an owner that hates both. I don't see the grass as greener on the other side.

              • ozbjunkie on 13/12/2020 - 07:02
                +1

                @syousef: You're between a sandy beach and a soft place, tough situation.

                • syousef on 02/01/2021 - 14:45

                  @ozbjunkie: That Sandy beach has onerous rules and that park bench requires 5 digits for repairs just as your career prospects start to die off..

          • Zachary on 10/12/2020 - 16:22

            @syousef: so we should all have one million dollars for our houses?

            • syousef on 10/12/2020 - 17:16
              +1

              @Zachary: No but you should stop pretending that living in a home you can be thrown out of at any time is bliss.

              Ownership isn't either btw. I've got a retaining wall shared with a neighbour that's going to cost a bomb to fix. That's why I said both debt and renting are slavery. Neither give you any real freedom unless you're so wealthy you can throw money at any problem that arises.

            • Ti-au on 11/12/2020 - 12:56

              @Zachary: yes!

        • trapper on 10/12/2020 - 13:22
          +3

          100% renting is the best imho

    • WhoGiveAShxt on 11/12/2020 - 01:03
      +1

      "You can't go wrong no matter what you paid for it"

      LOL, you are so confident about that. It is like "yo, the investment is so good and I am willing to pay anything just for a piece of it."

      Yeah, what could possible go wrong, right.

  • FSTB on 09/12/2020 - 13:52
    +18

    That's shocking. You could get an mid to upper range 4br property 20min from the city for that price in Brisbane.

    • orangetrain on 09/12/2020 - 13:54
      +31

      Noone wants to live in Brisbane. Hot af

      • Jackson on 09/12/2020 - 17:52

        Yes, but the return on your investment will be awful. 10 years and still hasn't moved 20%

        Edit: sorry that was meant for the guy above

        • dizzle on 09/12/2020 - 19:01
          +4

          not necessarily. Just sold a place I had for 12 years (3 Bed 1 bath) in Brisbane had an 80% increase. In this climate it could have been much worse

          • Jackson on 09/12/2020 - 19:05

            @dizzle: maybe close to town where there's some constraint on supply that's the case, but out in the burbs it's definitely not

            • dizzle on 09/12/2020 - 20:54

              @Jackson: When I said Brisbane it's Brisbane council, but on the NW border of Brisbane which I would consider the suburbs. It definitely depends on location, just saying it can be worth it.

              • Jackson on 09/12/2020 - 21:58

                @dizzle: Most of the people I know lost money or broke even after many years investing between Brisbane and either Gold Coast or Ipswich, with one at North Lakes. I guess those place may have been outside of what is technically Brisbane, but for the out of towers they consider it Brisbane

                In contrast you could have bought anywhere in Greater Sydney and doubled your money easily even an hour away from town. Same would go for Melbourne from what I hear

                • Krankite on 10/12/2020 - 13:50
                  +1

                  @Jackson: Any area "Between" cities isn't going to make money because there is still lots of vacant land around. It's going to be a while before 1hr from the Brisbane CBD is going to be a selling point. Melbourne and Sydney prices are rising so quickly because it's already built up for over an hour in each direction.

                  • netjock on 10/12/2020 - 15:17
                    +1

                    @Krankite:

                    Any area "Between" cities isn't going to make money because there is still lots of vacant land around

                    That seems to be the odd thing. People enjoy packing themselves close to the CBD when most of them don't have CBD jobs anyways. It is like some Japanese TV comedy skit about how many people you can fit into a micro car.

                    I remember watching TV and they explaining why homeless people gravitate towards the CBD due to more foot traffic, more places they can sleep in and 24 hour lighting / amenities. No idea why regular people wants to get closer. You would think they'd want to cluster around metropolitan hubs with good amenities.

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