This is the new 2019 model Gaggia New Classic. Made in Italy, unlike the previous Classic and seems to have excellent reviews.
There's no current stock so it is a pre-order - adding it to the cart says it can be delivered in early July but this may depend on your location.
$30 off $300+ spend for You and Your Friend (New Customers).
They're more bags than pods - but regardless of that, do yourself a favour and grind fresh!
The pod update is interesting, but one taste will probably see you run for a grinder and a fresh cup.
It would be interesting to verify that the group holder has not been cheapened as the 2017 update to brass was excellent, and would not have been cheap. Maybe they made all the changes to make 'bags' work in the group handle and/or electric controls.
Also if the steam side, ie. wand and valve been changed again. It was radically redesigned in 2015- to have the wand heat separately from the boiler entirely. So this should be really good, at least as good as a Breville(?)
Is this an improvement over Breville BES920?
FYI I have the BES 920, 2 years on and still going strong. Best machine I’ve ever used .
Depends on what you mean by improvement.
The Gaggia will last for aaaages. But it is pretty basic from a feature point of view.
The Breville has lots of features but will probably need repairs after 3 years (ours died around then, as have lots of others if you read forums or talk to repair people)
I used to have the Gaggia classic ~ 5 years ago, probably the most annoying thing about it was having to temperature surf.
temperature surfing really got to me, got a HX machine and life has been easy
What's temperature surf?
Because it has a single boiler, it needs to be able to oscillate between brewing and steaming temperatures. This means there's no 'water circuit' to keep the temperature at the brew head steady (more complex machines use a thermo-syphon to keep the brew head at the ideal temperature). As a result, the temperature of the brew water can drop quickly once you start brewing - going from the 95 degrees the thermostat operates at, to less than 70 degrees in extreme cases, as cold water enters the boiler.
Temperature surfing is drawing in enough cold water before you brew that the element has kicked on to start heating the water again as you begin your extraction, so the element stays on for the full 30 seconds you spend brewing, so that the temperature doesn't drop off a cliff.
@readeral: You can replace the aluminium dispersion plate with a stainless or brass job that holds the heat a lot better.
Join Coffee Snobs, you'll learn lots of interesting things there.
@PinzVidz: I did read up a bit at CoffeeSnobs before I bought my Sunbeam EM6910 like maybe 10 years ago for home use, and still using it today. I don't find myself to be a coffee snob, so have not followed the forum since then.
Adding a pid to a Gaggia classic is a $40, hour long job which fixes temp surfing.
$40? Care to share the details? Whenever I look for PID kits (I'm no electrical engineer!) they're some way north of that price so not something I've ever considered, for $40 I'd certainly be up for giving it a shot!
Tell me more of this $40 PID.
I have a Breville BES860 which I got when it was released, probably 6 years back and includes the grinder built in. Still going strong. The BRS870 is the new model and can be had for $649+
In saying that, I have no doubt the Gaggia is a high quality machine
If you already have a BES920 it really won't be - it's a simpler appliance with a single boiler, thermal stability or precision isn't really considered here. Like Vombatidae mentioned reliability (and by the looks of it, repairability) will be a win for the Gaggia, but features, functions, and ease of use I think go to the BEs920. Biases declared, I really wanted a Gaggia Classic and looked a lot into it, and ended up going with a BES920.
Similar situation here - I was shipping for a Gaggia Classic or Rancilio Silvia (even looked at buying broken ones and repairing them).
Ultimately, I ended up with a Sunbeam em7000 (twin thermoblock) when it popped up on ozbargain. I definitely appreciate the convenience of better automation and separate 'boilers' - but don't expect it to last forever. That said, it really doesn't owe me anything at this point.
just got a bes920 2 weeks ago and am loving it! having never used manual machines and coming from nespresso land, the Breville is forgiving enough for even me to make tasty coffee in such a short learning phase.
checked out repair parts for the bes920 and you can get a replacement boiler for around $330 AUD so not too worried about failure, although I expect a 1k odd machine to last at least 4 years (ACL FTW)
Yes and fantastically the price tag invites a group of people that really wants to get as much out of their coffee as possible. There's a whole range of mods to really maximise the controllability of what is already quite a flexible machine - eg. the BES920 slayer mods, pressure profile mods etc
Since you mentioned you checked out repair parts I thought you might be handy and maybe would be interested in tweaking your machine a little.
Every BES920 I am aware of (purchased by friends and colleagues, 6 units total) had to go for repair within 2 years warranty range.
Breville is really good and generous with their warranty. But I am sceptical about 4 years without any repair.
@Danta: With our BES920, we've just had our second repair in 4 years. Really glad we got the extended warranty!
@funkydan2: I have 2 Gaggia classics, one in pieces, the other at the holiday house.
For daily use we have a BES920- its been doing 3-5 cups a day for 4 years. The Gaggia did the same for 5 years before that, and only needed a new steam valve and seals.
Found the BES900/920 the easiest and fastest to use, ideal for beginners and dab hands. Very simple to get consistent results.
The Gaggia has a much smaller footprint and is still superb. I actually prefer making coffee with it when I have more time. Takes 3:00 mins per cup instead of 1:20 on the Breville, as it is more old school, sort of like driving an old Alfa. The steamer on the Breville has a bigger volumetric flow so is faster and easier with its larger wand. Also, frothing doesn't suffer from cyclical variances or a slower warm-up time.
More consistent results also, as the thermal head is faster to warmup and remains stable at temp. I find the Gaggia is fine so long as you give it a second or two of flow through the head between steam/brew cycles.
The Gaggia will last longer than the Breville as its much simpler, but the Breville is a really fine example of Australian design- the best consumer price machine in the world, IMHO.
Kinda collecting the damn things now, I even have a spare BES900 which is just as good as the 920 but minus the variable pre-infusion timer, which I'm yet to use after 4 years on the 920!
I agree with all the comments here!
If you want a machine that will last forever, then you'd be better off getting a prosumer machine; but their RRP starts off around the $800 (like this machine) and can go up to $4,000 or $5,0000 depending on how serious and how many 'variables' you want to control. Most prosumer machines around the 1.5k to 2.5k will allow both coffee making and steaming of milk at the same time and satisfy most consumers out there.
In my opinion, if you want a serious coffee set up at home, dont buy the most expensive machine - rather get a good machine and invest in a good grinder. A terrible grind will produce terrible coffee no matter which machine you put it through.
I find the downside with BES920 (besides longevity) is the bench space it needs in your kitchen. With a grinder it will take up a lot of bench space - a valuable commodity if you have a small kitchen.
Yeah id go with second hand well serviced machines, once they hit the used market the machines don't lose any value.
FYI I have a rocket i paid $1k for which I could easily sell for the same price. Same goes with grinder - get a mini Mazza for 400-500 you won't lose money
If you say it like that, then why buy a second-hand machine when it costs about the same as when it is brand new?
@edfoo: Its 10 years old now but after the initial hit of depreciation they basically don't go lower.
Same, bought a Domobar super lever for 800 off gumtree.
@codfish: Yeah theres plenty of e61 hx machines out there in good condition. Domobars Simonelli oscars, isomacs all really good. Rockets rarer.
Yeah id go with second hand well serviced machines
These are rarer than hens teeth.
Mind you - while these machine lasts forever, you still need to take it in for servicing every 1 to 2 years depending on usage!
Nooope it's not. Keep your BES920 clean and well looked after and you'll be happy.
No. I have used both, the Gaggia first and the BES920 as an upgrade.
Gaggia: Probably impossible to break, mine was a 20 yo hands-me-down and still works like a charm. However, I think it is pretty meaningless for a simple single boiler, non-PID, no preinfusion machine to be built at such high quality in today's world.
BES920: The "appliance" brand, definitely not built to last, but the plus side is that by the time it breaks you will certainly make up ur mind whether you wanna invest in a "proper", prosumer dual boiler. Other than built quality and the lack of brand attraction, the Brev one has almost every feature you would have wanted, whereas if you have gotten the Gaggia as ur first boiler machine you are stuck with a feature lacking yet forever lasting machine which doesn't really give you a good idea about what a great machine is capable of.
If you don't have a boiler machine, wait for BES920 to come to the $700 mark. If you already have it, there is absolutely no need to "upgrade" to the Gaggia.
The other thing about the Breville is that it's designed in Australia by a team who actually cares about producing a quality and competitive espresso machine. Still 'appliance' level parts and design, so gonna break down in time, but at least they know what great coffee is and want to enable home users to make that great coffee. In comparison to companies like Sunbeam who double-down (or triple down in the case of the Torino) on Thermoblock technology, which isn't necessarily bad, but no-where near as precise or serviceable as the Breville machines.
I have a $4300 Profitec so have no skin in the game, but if I were choosing between a BES920 and a Gaggia classic, I'd be getting the Breville…
I also have the BES920. I believe the Gaggia is single boiler.
Still a very well regarded coffee machine.
Has anybody else noticed that appliances online's specials have variable pricing? They seem to change every 6 hours or so
Yep - have fun trying to pick the bottom…!
Can you even fit a mug under that thing? Aside from that, it's a nice looking machine. And as an added bonus, it's not made in China. Woohoo!
I'm still rocking the original Gaggia classic from about 10 years ago I guess, assume the tray would slide out so you can just do that too fit larger mugs
Great machines compared to your standard semi automatic Brevilles, full sized group handles, great Crema.. bit more to get to know the machine but when you do makes great coffee, just have to wait a bit for the pressure to build up for steaming after pulling the shot.
Note: Had the water pump replaced in mine and a service, not too bad given how long I've had it (was in storage for a few years and not always diligent with descaling).
I changed the wand to a Rancilio one which is much better, looks like the new model is slightly improved instead of the gross black plastic attachment.
Personally I think these machines are worth about $600 - $615 so try to get from HN on discount or something.
I just did a Google and saw some guy who 3d printed a low-profile drip tray for his Gaggia Classic. Yikes!! Definitely a deal breaker for me that you can't fit a mug underneath without completely removing the drip tray. Bummer.
Takes one second to slide it out..
Even those pod machines have slideable drip trays, as you wouldn't fit anything other than a small mug/short glass under them.
Most of my glasses can angle under if doing the shot first, for long blacks I do the water then have to remove tray.
@G-rig: Pods — yuck! Don't ever mention them again :D
If the tray slides out without any downsides, then it's not a big deal. But does it drip water from other parts of the machine while it's running? My Breville is always venting excess pressure or purging or doing something or other which dumps water into the back of the trip tray, so if you took it out when making a coffee, you'd end up with a soaking wet bench-top.
@dcash: Hey mate, hardly anything drops when the tray out, maybe a few drops from the flushing rod thingo..
@G-rig: Ok, sounds good - thanks. Now I've just gotta wait for my Breville BES860 to die, to justify it. After around 8 years, it seems almost indestructible!
@dcash: Ha, those things seem to last alright. There's probably a second hand market for them, maybe won't get a heap but something..
They all look the same but no doubt model variants.
@G-rig: Yeah, true. The missus has been hoping it will die for years, but it never misses a beat. I reckon fairly soon she'll "accidentally" drop it off the bench or "accidentally" put rocks in the grinder or something. Or maybe I'll just have two coffee machines, so that way if one breaks down I'll still have a backup. There's always a solution!
So a look into the Gaggia details on their website reveals it's still scant on information. The old Gaggias used to use an aluminium boiler which were a bastard to try to keep in good shape, and yes would leech into your water if you're not careful. I see Gaggia has conveniently highlighted that the steam arm is made of stainless steel in their Materials, Finishing, Dimensions section - but says nothing about the boiler material. I'd bet a nut it's aluminium.
Also, in the FAQs there's a question: "Why does classic leak … from the steam wand". This was faulty design of the steam valve which persisted in the original and never got updated. Some keen enthusiasts worked out ways to eke a little more life out of the steam valve, but it was often the first non-consumable part to fail, and because of it's all in one cast design couldn't be serviced/rebuilt. Became like ducks teeth on the second hand market. With an FAQ answer like this, I'd bet my other nut it's the same original cast design.
So it's just a re-release of the true Gaggia Classic, with all of it's sh*t bits coming along for the ride (rather than the infinitely worse cheap nastiness they had been releasing over the past few years under the Gaggia classic name) and no real technological advances over the past 15+ years to fix it's issues.
For this price - I'd give it a miss. I'd be opting for the far more 'standard' Rancilio Silvia for a hundred or so more.
Where can you buy a Rancilio Silvia for $739?
Oh you can get well maintained, second hand Rancillo Silia's online and cheap everywhere……..
Not.
They're hard to come by because either people treat them like trash and let them rust out in the chassis because of the stupid drip tray design - OR the well maintained ones get snapped up so damn fast that I once took a day trip from Sydney to Canberra on Good Friday (read: 9 hours return in traffic) just to pick one up.
@readeral: Seriously I've never been able to find one that was at the right price and that I was sure was well maintained. There are just something things you can't tell on the machine and there is usually a reason why people get rid of them, because they are giving up the ghost a little bit.
@serpserpserp: Yeah it's tricky. If people are onselling, usually it's because they're keen on the upgrade to an HX or dual boiler - but anecdotally, the vast majority of them would be passed on to family members or friends I reckon.
I'll concede that. Was thinking more about the RRP rather than the deal price when stating '100 or so'. Really should've been '200 or so'. You can buy a Silvia for $900 at a reputable retailer.
The other consideration would be a Lelit PL41LEM. But still almost $300 more than this deal.
@rfc850: At least the Silvia or the PL41LEM are built with readily available industry standard parts, and can be easily maintained by any repairer, or heck, self maintained. The availability of Gaggia parts has always been a little more difficult with their supply chains, and tends to be more expensive for replacements because outside of the pump, tubing and thermostats, a lot of this machine is proprietary cast parts, and consumables to fit those cast parts.
So it's kind of a case of how well someone looks after it as to whether they'll end up paying more in the long run or not.
Don't get me wrong, you'll get a good brew out of a Gaggia, and in that respect, given what it'll produce alongside it's competitors it's a good deal, I'm just rolling with the 'forewarned is forearmed' commenting policy.
@readeral: Fair point, though from all reports these seem pretty reliable in any case.
Anyway, with a $50 AO voucher this came down to $589. At that price, I couldn't resist :-)
I also don't have much bench space in the kitchen so the smaller design is a benefit over the Breville as well.
@rfc850: So given you've got this machine on it's way, here's some advice from someone who's rebuilt one of these - not to scare you, but just so you know the things that you need to care most about when using/cleaning and getting it serviced:
Never let it run without water, which is a bit of a no brainer, but trust me, it's easily done. If you won't watch how the tube drops into the water drawer after you've filled it, it sometimes can get caught up on the plastic drawer side and not actually have the end submerged.
The pumps in these things are Ulka Ep5s (or used to be - doubt it's changed) which have a plastic chassis rather than a metal one. They can heat up and deform pretty easily without the water to lubricate and cool them. If your pump ever needs replacing, ask for an Ex5 to be put in its place as it'll be 1. quieter and 2. more reliable.
Keep the OPV in good knick by only feeding it good water. If you're not getting good water flow through the group head you've either not been cleaning the machine or the OPV needs replacing.
They talk about descaling regularly, but IMO it's cheaper and safer to feed it good water to begin with. Good water softener with filtration that doesn't release carbon particles (like Brita filter jugs do) is your best bet. Prevention rather than treatment.
When the instructions say to only use their descaling solution, they mean it. Most descaling solutions on the market are designed for brass or stainless boilers. With the aluminium boiler in these things (if my hunch is right), you definitely need the right solution - either from Gaggia, or one that is known to be manufactured for the gaggia boiler makeup specifically.
Don't over tighten your steam valve to close it. Close it only enough to cut off the supply of steam. The more you tighten unnecessarily the faster it'll deteriorate. A replacement is ~$60 before service time costs.
Pretty rare to worry about, but don't crack any of the plastic body parts/lid - they're really hard to come by because no-one really retails them, so you'll be importing a replacement.
Because of the group-head design, and how the group head is functionally the bottom half of the boiler, you need to keep your group-head in tip top shape and nicely cleaned. Unfortunately to replace the group-head is basically to replace the whole boiler.
You might read about backflushing on internet forums - you can't backflush this machine. Get a brush to clean the grouphead, and run water through it after you've finished making your coffee for the day. You can remove the shower screen if you really need to give it a proper scrub, but make a habit of flushing it often and you won't have to do this.
@rfc850: I have a friend who's been using my rebuilt one for the past 3 1/2 years. Still going strong. Another friend has been using a Classic for the past 10 years at least. He looks after it. They're trustworthy, just need the right care.
The other thing I forgot to mention is the boiler in these things aren't like other espresso machines. The element is integrated into the boiler on the outside. Most machines have a boiler element screwed into the machine with a gasket sealing it from the outside. If an element fails, it can just be replaced, but with the Classic, the whole boiler needs to be replaced.
It's true for any single boiler espresso machine, but especially for this one - don't start it up in steam mode, and MAKE SURE you prime the boiler (draw water into it until you're getting hot water coming through the steam wand) before putting it into steam mode - otherwise you'll damage the element and thereby damage the boiler.
@readeral: This is a great write up but as a user of multiple classics over 10 years, you can most definitely can backflush them.
@readeral: Since the 2017 Classics were released Gaggia moved to an even bigger Defona Phoenix-50 A2P 03. It's a 53 watt pump, would be interesting to see if this is a potential retrofit. This is a commercial pump, nothing like this in any consumer machine I've seen.
This happened to mine. Steam wand doesn't seal properly so always leaks a bit. A Silva is a better machine but a bit more expensive.
As I posted above, $40 with of PID gear fixes temperature problems, pressure can be adjusted to your needs, and it will last for ages.
Which pid costs 40? I was looking at one for my Silva and they are around $250
Have a look on eBay: rex c100 knockoff, then a cheap solid state relay.
@bokka: @bokka thanks! Do you know if there are any instructions floating around on installing the rex c100 on a Gaggia classic?
What's the heat up time on these'?
5 mins
Only around 45 seconds according to reviews.
the machine with technically tell you its ready to go in a minute or two but you definitely want to give it 15-20 mins imo.
My 2007 Gaggia Classic is still going strong as ever. Been using it 1-2 times a day and has never skipped a beat. I’d buy another one any day!
Easy to service too.
This new one has the improved frothing wand which is much better than the original plastic foaming type.
A separate grinder is the way to go.
Yeah mine is even older and still cranking. Changed the wand to a rancilio silvia one and installed a pid. Cracking little machine.
I changed my wand to the same one too 👍
Aluminium boiler? Or brass? If it was brass I would pull the trigger right now
What do we buy if we just want a simple machine which makes good coffee and least effort? My old which died after 10 years was fully automatic.
I don't mind grinding beans, but half the time I don't wanna spend 5-10 minutes making a coffee. Should I stick with the free Pod coffee machine I got for now? Semi automatic?
Have a crack at a BES870. Built in grinder but single boiler. If you want a dual boiler bes920 but youll also need to buy a grinder.
Even with a full manual machine with separate grinder shouldnt take more than a minute, maybe 2.
Mines nearly 20 years old and still going strong. Its been relegated to the camper now that we have a vbm domobar, but in some ways the gaggia pulled nicer shots.
Either way - make sure you use the savings on a quality grinder.
OP, you’ve ignited my new need to upgrade my Delonghi EC685M. Great little machine but I’m keen on the next step up.
Will read up on this Gaggia and also the Rancilio Silvia. For the extra $, is the Rancilio capable of kicking out a ‘better’ shot in the hands of a skilled operator?
Had one for few years. I fitted mine with different steaming wand and it was amazing. Pretty basic but will last forever…
This, or Rancilio Silva?
Rancilio but then its $300 more than this one…
Seems a few breville users here - my dual boiler BES900 has the broken collar meaning a replacement group head needed - anyone found this part cheapish? I had one ordered for $90 but they cancelled the order after a month or so. Considering economics of a replacement machine or repairing mine with this
https://dcs.com.au/product/bes900-group-head-collar-kit/
Why would the savvy oz bargainer do?
The new part includes the group handle, as it is the later 920 design, the 900 ones are slightly different. You can on-sell your 900 group if you get it, assuming someone with a 900 wants it.
Or maybe you can buy an old brew boiler from a repairer with a spare 900 they are using for parts.
By the way, agree with others about quality coffee but lower build quality in the breville…. I loved it until it’s demise
Can it beat aldi coffee machine? Anyone..
I bought a second hand one which was in ok condition a couple of years ago. I believe its build date is 2002 but I can't remember. Apparently they stopped making them in Italy for some time and the build quality went downwards. Makes great coffee and foam with an upgraded steam wand. Still going strong but I definitely would not buy one new as there are better options.
They did stop making them in Italy for a while, however this new model is now made in Italy again.
How is everyone going with their Gaggia's from this deal?
I'm currently rocking at Delonghi EC685M - super compact espresso machine and I pull some ripper shots from it but I'm now itching to trade up to something a little more capable (and open basket).
Am still swaying between something like this Gaggia, or the Rancilio, but the appeal of the Breville Dual Boiler is significant (albeit in a bigger package!).
Would love to hear how you're going with the Gaggia if you've pulled the pin. Hows the temp surfing on this - painful or pretty simple - (and startup time also)?
Handy that it does ground coffee, and/or pods!