$3500 of Electricity Bills in One Day

So this is an odd situation, but I moved into my apartment with my partner in July 2017. We took over the bills, did all the paperwork, set up all the direct debits. All was good.

Until last Friday.

I get a letter from a company saying they will cut off my electricity the following Monday unless I call them.

It looks like a con, the website they state in the letter doesn't work, so I went to speak to a few neighbors in the building and turns out they are legitimate and the suppliers of electricity for the building. They claim since I moved in, no one has once paid for the electricity. I say I pay Origin for electricity. Look up my bills, and turns out, nope I pay Origin for gas (my heart sank). My previous apartment, I had Origin for electricity and Gas was covered by the body corp so included in the rent in the rush of moving I'd thought this was the same.

Next thing they say they are going to send me through my bills.

They send 10 bills in row, one after another, totaling over $3500.

The rates are extortionate, my partner and I both work full time and are often away, yet the bills are coming out and the average of what a 5 person house would be.

My problem is, why on earth have they taken two years to contact me? If I had seen the price of the bills I would have moved company, sorted something else, and above all else having seen the very first bill, I would have then been conscious of our electricity usage from that moment forward. Instead they have waited for me to rack up a massive debt then 2 years later, despite knowing exactly where I live, have sent their first piece of contact.

Is there any way I can challenge this legally? Is it not legally their responsibility to make contact with me in a suitable time frame? Or am I stupid and do I just suck it up and pay and move on?

Comments

    • +11

      Thank you for chiming in with zero information and contributing nothing in legal terms

    • +4

      lol there's at least one of these pointless comments on every similar thread.

  • +77

    My understanding is that you do not have to pays energy bills more than 9 months old. You should contact the energy ombudsman, though, to check.

    • +1

      Thanks I hadn't thought about contacting them, will look up their details.

      • +13

        Since you're in VIC, you would be contacting these guys (EWOV)
        https://www.ewov.com.au/issues/delayed-and-catch-up-bills
        1800 500 509

      • +14

        The previous comments are all correct; they can only go back 9 months if the delay was their fault.

        Your energy supplier will know this.

        I suspect if you call them and tell them that you know this also that they will immediately ammend your account. This is what happened to me with EnergyAustralia a few years ago

        Good luck

        • +37

          Also if the stack 9 months of back dated bills, they have to offer you another nine months to pay it up. They cannot demand immediate payment.

        • +3

          They can go back more than 9 months if you failed to set up an account for electricity as the failure was technically yours, not theirs.

          However, if the letters are addressed "to the occupier" they don't know who you are. You can move out and they can't chase you to pay.

          • +3

            @drfuzzy: ^^ This - "to the occupier" had me over a barrel when I moved into a house, I re-connected with AGL (or so I thought) and once bill time came and went (5mths after moving in) I contacted AGL and they explained that they didn't have an account set up for me at that address.

            Turns out Dodo, annoying as they are, didn't release the billing rights back to the distributor, and for some reason, the setup failed and I wasn't contacted.

            Meanwhile, Dodo had been spamming "to the occupier" mail to us (don't care for Dodo, don't have an account, never will, so why would I open their spam), next one that came in, sure enough had an overdue electricity bill in it.

            System failed us, AGL went in to bat on our behalf as I had no interest in creating an account with Dodo "ever" just to pay a bill, so AGL fixed it up on our behalf (partly their fault too) and we got a significant discount.

            You'll probably find that Origin didn't get the billing rights from the distributor and it's failed quite like mine did. Origin might be able to wrangle a deal with the other party.

            • @Revrnd: Had a similar issue after buying my first house. Can't remember the retailer but a phone call and subsequently an email stating when I moved in was enough for them. From memory I think I provided the name of the previous property owner.

            • @Revrnd: Your experience is common. There are various reasons a retailer won't release the billing rights. The magic words to say to your preferred retailer is "arrange a retrospective transfer". Smaller retailers will refuse however as it's too much work for them.

    • This is my understanding as well. i had some issues getting bills started and they couldn't go back more than 9 months.

    • Yup that's my understanding too, was just about to post this

    • +1

      Except it's a bit dicey in this case. OP never setup electricity with a retailer. Technically not the retailer's fault.

      • -1

        The retailer was giving it away for 2 years

        • +4

          They weren't giving it away. OP was using a service and not paying for it.

          Same scenario happens alllll the time with Natural Gas in VIC. Gas is never turned off when accounts are closed\people move out. You can't just move in, use the gas and claim no responsibility.

      • That would mean someone forgot to close their account and it should be on them

    • How long has this been the case. I had a similar situation (not as bad as the OP) quite a few years ago (early 2000s) so would be interested to know if it applied then.

    • Perhaps you can coax some further discounts by telling them if they apply the going rate including "discounts" that would apply for paying on time (say an extra 30 to 40% off) you wont report them for trying to illegally obtain more than they are entitled to. After all it would cost them a lot of money to respond to the issues caused by the complaint than they would lose by the discount.

      Only problem may be that it could be construed as your fault for not updating electricity provider about new tenancy, but still for them not to contact the occupier after so long they would have a hard time with that.

      • +1

        Payment plan, no interest payments, pay $3500 over 2yrs. I'm sure they'll be happy to get $33/wk.

  • the average of what a 5 person house would be.

    Do you mean the cost, or the energy consumed?

    • Energy consumed, seemed to say 21 when the expected for a 2 person household was 11!

      • +12

        Does your meter agree with your bill? If they're not sending you bills, maybe they're not reading your meter either.

      • +5

        It's $166 per month for 21 months, doesn't seem outlandish.

        • +3

          2 person household here. I pay $99 pm.

          • +6

            @dasher86: everyone's mileage varies. We're a 3 person household (and 1 is a baby) and we pay $250+pm, and we're on one of the lowest possible rates in NSW. I've found those household estimates to not be very useful.

            • +4

              @dimitryp: That was my point…
              $166 pm seems reasonable.
              To some people it might be to others it might not be.

              But geez that is a lot of electricity you use.

              • @dasher86: its mostly aircon which is ducted and old and inefficient :(

              • @dasher86: $166 a month is about what our two person household used to be before we got solar. We aren't incredibly energy concious, but don't often use high draw things like AC or dryers.

            • +1

              @dimitryp: Ah ok, yeah we are 2 people (and now a baby!) congrats! (on the baby, not your large bills)

            • +1

              @dimitryp: 3 person household (one child), wife loves AC (it's on right now in VIC, 20 degrees outside), consumption is well over that of a five bedder at 25 - 30kwH/day. Luckily some very cheap rates were available (contract running out soon) so still only ~$120/month at the moment. Wife and child were away for all of Feb; consumption dropped to 4kwH/day.

              • +2

                @ely: Don't ever move to Darwin. I don't put the AC on unless its after 9pm and BOM says it feels over 35.
                I don't mind myself what it is but do it for the kids.

        • 1.5 person household with a really inefficient fridge, 2x AC, electic oven, dishwasher, microwave, 3x ceiling fans. I pay $60/m and $30 of that is supply charge.

          • @brad1-8tsi: Do you have great rates or low usage? Which company/plan are you with?

            edit: nvm, saw that you have already stated here

          • @brad1-8tsi: Doesn't sound like any of this is actually on. hahahahha

        • 3 person household here - average (with TV or computers running long hours, electric oven / stove and no solar) was generally $450 per quarter in NSW.

  • -3

    My problem is, why on earth have they taken two years to contact me?

    my partner and I both work full time and are often away

    • +7

      Well, I say often to sound rich. Once per year roughly we go away for a month.

      • HAHAHAHA

        • why such a laugh? doesn't mean he flies first class over Europe, I holiday for 3 weeks over Christmas every year and normally take a few days on top of long weekends, most people I know do.

    • +25

      there's such thing as a mailbox, so even if someone's away, wouldn't you still expect the bills to still come through?

  • +15

    Firstly the building/body corp/neighbours has nothing to do with who your individual electricity retailer is. You need to have a contract with an electricity retailer.

    If you didn't "set up" any electricity contract when you moved in but you're still receiving electricity you either were put on a Retailer of Last Resort at the 'standing offer rate' or the electricity was still in the name of the previous owner and it's taken the old retailer 2 years to chase them up and realise that they no longer live there.

    The second issue is if your bill was correct (ie electricity usage). You can verify this by downloading 2 years of usage data from your electricity distribution network (aka. wholesaler). You can then cross reference this with the bills to see if they are charging you for the correct amount of electricity. $3500 is about $1750 per year which seems about right for 2 people on the 'standing offer rate'. Do you have electric hot water? That can account for 30-40% of your electricity bill.

    On the issue of paying the large sum you can negotiate with the company a payment plan through their financial hardship/assistance department. Review the bills and see if there are any 'overdue' charges and such you can ask them to waive if you agree to the payment plan.

    • To be fair, sometimes the body corp has an arrangement with a particular operator to run an embedded network so you can't choose the retailer.

  • +6

    There must be more to this than OP is posting.

    • When did OP become liable for the electricity provided?
      This doesn't just automatically go to the next resident, but the provider will cut off the power if there is no registered user.

    • Were the bills addressed to OP, or to the previous resident?

    • Is it confirmed that the bills are only for that apartment, or does it cover common areas etc.?

    As others have stated, there are limitations on the maximum OP will be liable for, but more info should be provided for clarity if OP wants our advice.

    • +4

      1.
      Under the relevant Act OP is responsible from the day they move in, regardless of when they setup an account with a retailer. If they don't setup an account then the retailer with the billing rights (ie. Last to supply power or currently billing power) has the right to invoice OP.

      Rules have changed. Retailer's no longer automatically turn off electricity (at least in Vic and NSW)

      They will send out 3 letters a month apart. If all are ignored THEN they shut off the power (if there's access)

      2.
      Letters would have been addressed 'to the occupier'. Retailer doesn't know who is living in the property.

      It's very common to take a year or 2 to address a situation like this. Last occupier may have forgotten to disconnect the power. Retailer chases that person to pay bills for ages until the occupier finally lets them know they're no longer there. Probably provides a copy of Bond refund/Notice of disposition to prove they left so they don't get billed. Retailer then issues 'to the occupier' letters to the property.

      Happens all the time.

      • +2

        ^^ This - exactly as I mentioned in my post above.

  • +10

    Firstly the building/body corp/neighbours has nothing to do with who your individual electricity retailer is

    I was surprised to learn that this is not always true. Apparently, blocks of apartments/units can be all locked into a single provider, and cannot change retailers. I'm not sure whether it's the body corporate that arranges this, or the original site owner/s.

    • +3

      Oh right. Is that what they call an embedded network? I would run away from ever buying an apartment there if that was the case lol.

      • Yeah, there are some pitfalls involved when you buy an apartment that's hooked up to said network. It's nothing but headaches.

        https://www.aer.gov.au/consumers/information-for-electricity…

        • +1

          This is coming from the regulators who regulate the market so badly that they run a website called Energy Made Easy for people that do not understand the prices in the framework they allow to operate. According to the ACCC most consumers do not understand their bills.

          And the ACCC says that comparison sites are merely fronts for commercial operations which do not lower prices for consumers.

          The regulator is owned by the industry it is supposed to be overwatching in other words.

    • +2

      This. Lived in one. Verified with other retailers. Can't move.

    • yes not the case with me either. my apartment building has fixed gas supplier and hot water all through origin.

    • One complex I lived in in VIC had this for the central hot water. I was paying for Water, Gas and Electricity, and kept getting 'to the occupier' letters from Origin. I ignored them as I had no idea the building had central hot water, billed and metered separately.

      Origin eventually somehow found out I lived there (not sure how as I have never used them for anything) and phoned me. I didn't believe them, they said that was fine and to check with body corp. Sure enough, they were right. I rang and setup an account. Fortunately they didn't charge me from day 1, but that was partly their fault. They were doing monthly meter readings to every apartment in the complex, and I only got 'to the occupier' letters around 2 years after I moved in!

      If my real estate agent had told me this, I would have sorted it out long before though.

  • +5

    My problem is, why on earth have they taken two years to contact me?

    You used the electricity for two years and have only ever paid gas bills. Why on earth did you not notice until the biller has to chase you. Not saying that it's your fault the bills did not make it's way to you but it's neutral territory here. You did use the utility so it is not fee for no service.

    Is there any way I can challenge this legally? Is it not legally their responsibility to make contact with me in a suitable time frame?

    They're within their right to bill you for the usage as per your agreement. If you can proove that you were never issued a bill, you can get any late charges waived but the usage charges and the rate it is charged with will stand.

    Or am I stupid and do I just suck it up and pay and move on?

    You're not stupid. You've made a reasonable oversight and the reasonable course of action is to pay the rates you initially agreed to.

    To argue that you would have changed the supplier had you known the rates were high would be a silly one. You knew the rates when you signed on. You obviously were not concerned about the rates because in two years, you did not notice the lack of bills. It's not an argument you'll win.

    • +2

      I didn't sign on though? The letter they sent me was to 'current resident'.

      My mistake with it was thinking my Origin direct debit was for electricity, and thinking the gas was included in rent. Which wasn't correct.

      • +5

        My mistake… was thinking… wasn't correct.

        And it happens to the best of us. It is still our mistake.

        Swallow the bitter pill and learn.

      • -4

        if it is for current resident then you are not liable, but if you have give them all your details then it may be liable.

        You will need to contact the ombudsman asap.

        I have the same situation and they keep sending email to 'The resident' which I am not that person, at the same time I did join EA and they need to transfer the meter to be under their account, during the next 6 month they keep sending bill after bill and threaten to cut off the power, which they can't.

        Then after 6 month the account finally transfer and I got free electricity for 6 months due to the other company not releasing the account.

        You are in the same situation which they try to find a person to absorb the cost that you did not used.

      • +2

        I didn't sign on though?

        But did you use or not use the electricity?

        Say you walk in to a restaurant and order a meal without finding out the price (e.g. lobster/crab at market prices) and when you finish and leave they tell you the price. Are you going to walk out and say you didn't agree to the price?

      • +1

        You ARE the current resident. You occupy and reside in the apartment. You are using electricity.

        You need to pay for it.

        Your issue is either with yourself for forgetting to arrange electricity, or Origin for not connecting\failing to notify you that they cannot connect to an embedded network.

        • @cc789: your energy suppliers seem to be watching ozbargain as well =P

      • Have you never once looked at one of your bills or used your Origin account? Honestly work out a payment plan and pay your bills. Take it as a lesson about actually running your life rather than letting companies do it for you.

    • +1

      There is a limit as to how many months they can go back, at least in Victoria, as people have mentioned above. It is, actually, easy to miss paying a bill that isn’t being issued. We had something similar where we suddenly stopped being issued electricity bills because of some mix up with the provider. We only had to pay back to the number of month limit.

      https://www.ewov.com.au/issues/delayed-and-catch-up-bills

      • In some situations, not all.

        If the biller has been billing to Dear Resident, it is still an issued bill. It is going to depend on technicality but as per OP's description of neighbours getting their bills, I think this may not be the same case as yours.

        • Not sure how “dear resident” adds up to a bill you can be forced to pay. I would look at my link and talk to them, if OP is in Victoria.

          • +2

            @try2bhelpful: Electricity isn't free.

            You live in the building.

            It has electricity.

            The electricity company sends the bill for said not free electricity.

            It is addressed to the person living in the building. The person that is using the electricity.

            • +1

              @[Deactivated]: Just to confirm, this was the very first piece of communication they have ever sent, I check the mailbox pretty much daily.

              But yes I am aware I am a human, who lives in an apartment and turns on lights etc etc. The truth is, in my last apartment, I used gas (even the oven was gas) and yet never got a bill. Was part of body corporate. I just figured Australia was a bit different to UK and bundled in gas or electricity or whatever based on the building.

              • -1

                @cc23: legally you are not the'current resident' so let them chase the current resident. Also if you did not sign up, you should ask them for the contact that you sign with them, when there is no contact, it is their discretion to supply electricity which it is possible no one is liable for it.

                • +2

                  @SnoozeAndLose: You are completely incorrect.

                  1. OP is currently residing in the property. They ARE the current resident. Don't argue semantics.

                  2. Doesn't matter if OP signed up or not. He used electricity.
                    Energy Retail Code division 8 entitles the retailer to contact and bill the occupier for electricity used.

                  3. OP used the electricity. He is the one liable.

                  • @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: if he has sign up for different company then it will be different story. It seem that the company account all unpaid electricity to him include the time he hasn't live there.

                    • @SnoozeAndLose: OP didn't sign up with anyone else. Even if he did, he cannot on an embedded network. Moot point.

                      OP has already confirmed the bill has been reduced to 9 months.

            • @[Deactivated]: “Dear resident” is not living in the building. If they want to provide you with free electricity then they can go right ahead but if the OP hasn’t signed anything with the electricity company then how can they be charged?

              • +1

                @try2bhelpful: If they haven't signed anything, why should they use the electricity that they know isn't free?

                OP hasn’t signed anything with the electricity company then how can they be charged?

                By this same exact logic, you should be able to drive away after fueling up without paying. Didn't sign anything.

                • @[Deactivated]: That is a different proposition, however, there are certainly times when you pre pay for petrol and you only get what you pay for. Electricity companies have contracts you sign to get electricity delivered. The previous tenant had a contract with the company not the current resident. The power should’ve been terminated to the flat, a new contract signed and then the power provided. This is more like someone sending you a package and then sending you an invoice for it when you didn’t ask for it in the first place. However, my point is I would still talk to the guys on the URL, I provided, and see what their legal obligations are. I would be very interested to see if you can be held liable if you haven’t signed a contract, particularly as you are, generally, meant to be able to pick which provider you want.

                  • @try2bhelpful: Yeah the petrol example vs the parcel example is a good argument and it does feel more like, the lights are on, therefore bills must be being paid.

                  • -1

                    @try2bhelpful: See my response above.

                    This is captured in the Energy Retail Code division 8.

                    Power isn't automatically terminated when someone moves out. I've explained that elsewhere in this thread. You seem to be referring to "How things were done" in the industry about 15 years ago.

                    It is the occupier's responsibility to setup a retail contract for the electricity. The onus is on the occupier. The retailer can bill the occupier for electricity used from the day they moved in. The paperwork OP received will state this and ask for the date of move-in and evidence, ie. Lease or Contract of Sale.

                    • @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: If that is the case then the system is stuffed, the onus should be on the provider to create a clean sheet between the previous tenant and the next tenant. Why leave power on a place that might be empty. It is a good way to provide a situation where squatters move into a building because the power is still on. As has been noted, they can’t go past 9 months back.

                      • @try2bhelpful: Gas and Water are never turned off Australia wide. Are those distribution systems stuffed too?

                        • @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Actually why not, it is possible to do both and it, makes sense. If I was renting out a property then I would make sure all the utilities were cancelled before I let it sit idle and I would make sure the water and gas were turned off at the mains. If you have either a gas leak or water leak on the property then the problem could be quite large and expensive. As indicated it should be up to the supplier to be aware of who is consuming their product and make sure they are billing the correct people. They should only provide services to people who have signed a contract with them to show "informed consent".

                          • @try2bhelpful: Cool story. Go and tell the state and federal governments to amend dozens of pieces of legislation that stipulate the exact opposite.

                            It's 2019. No one except for an utter idiot would think power, gas and water is free. Using it is "deemed consent"

                            Onus is on the owner/occupant and I don't see that ever changing.

                            • @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: There are specific references to informed consent and I don’t see anything that says consuming the product fits the bill, it all seems to be around the provider ensuring they have a proper contract with the consumer. It would be nice for us to get an informed answer not we Saturday night quarterbacks trying to interpret.

                    • -1

                      @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: First time looking at this Code and it is confusing AF - I'm presuming that you're referring to clause 54 under Part 2 Division 8? (which is the only part which contains a 'Division 8' anyway)

                      You stated:

                      This is captured in the Energy Retail Code division 8…

                      …It is the occupier's responsibility to setup a retail contract for the electricity. The onus is on the occupier.

                      This would be untrue. The clause states the following:

                      54 Formation of standard retail contract on incomplete request

                      The financially responsible retailer for a move-in customer or carry-over customer may treat the customer as requesting the sale of energy under the retailer’s standing offer and may take all appropriate steps for the formation of a standard retail contract with the customer, if:

                      (a) the customer has provided the retailer with the customer’s name and (if required by the retailer) acceptable identification and contact details for billing purposes; but
                      (b) the customer has not advised the retailer as to the type of customer retail contract under which the customer wishes to be supplied.

                      OP's situation does not fit - the requirement in subclause (a) does not appear to be satisfied (i.e they were not aware of the existance of the retailer at all so cannot provide them name nor contact details.)

                      Furthermore, OP's situation appears to fit that of a move-in customer, which the code defines under Part 1, Div 1, cl. 3 as such:

                      move-in customer means a small customer who starts consuming energy at premises without first applying to a retailer for the provision of customer retail services;

                      There's only 5 references in the code when I searched 'move-in' and none of them lets the retailer do this.

                      Therefore your reference is incorrect. Please try again.

                      • -1

                        @Serapis: It appears your comprehension skills are lacking. OPs scenario is not an incomplete request.

                        Division 8 clause 53

                        As soon as practicable after becoming aware that a small customer is consuming
                        energy under a deemed customer retail arrangement, the financially responsible
                        retailer for the premises concerned must give the customer information about the
                        following:
                        (a) the retailer’s contact information;
                        (b) details of the prices, terms and conditions applicable to the sale of energy to
                        the premises concerned under the deemed customer retail arrangement;
                        (c) the customer’s options for establishing a customer retail contract (including
                        the availability of a standing offer);
                        (d) the consequences for the customer if the customer does not enter into a
                        customer retail contract (whether with that or another retailer), including
                        the entitlement of the retailer to arrange for the de-energisation of the
                        premises and details of the process for de-energisation.

                        This is exactly what the retailer has done.

                        It is a deemed customer retail arrangement as defined in the code and the relevant act here

                        If a relevant customer commences to take supply of electricity at premises from the relevant licensee without having entered into a supply and sale contract with that licensee, there is deemed, on the commencement of that supply, to be a contract between that licensee and that customer for the supply and sale of electricity

                        Which is also exactly what OP has done and what has happened. OP has used electricity for nearly 2 years and is obligated to pay for it.

                        Learn to read legislation before you make a poor attempt at schooling someone.

                        • @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: (a) the retailer’s contact information;
                          (b) details of the prices, terms and conditions applicable to the sale of energy to
                          the premises concerned under the deemed customer retail arrangement;

                          if this is the first instance OP is hearing about the provider, these conditions haven't been met, have they? the provider should have contacted them earlier?

                          • +1

                            @enzioFirenze: A bill contains all those pieces of information.

                            A dozen reasons why it may take the retailer so long to make contact. Thus why the 9 month rule exists.

                        • -1

                          @Typical16-bitEnjoyer:

                          First time looking at this Code and it is confusing AF - I'm presuming that you're referring to clause 54 under Part 2 Division 8?

                          I'm not in VIC and only had a quick skim through it so I may be referring to the wrong clause. I have a feeling it your clause may not be applicable (also see objective of the Code) but I'm not bothered breaking it down by going through the definitions.

                          No need to be condescending, I'm just trying to help the OP.

                          • +1

                            @Serapis: @Serapis

                            "No need to be condescending, I'm just trying to help the OP."

                            I think you only got a snarky response because you sent one in the first place, which was probably misguided if you were unfamiliar only had a "quick skim".

                            "Therefore your reference is incorrect. Please try again."

                          • @Serapis: Your feelings have nothing to do with it.

                            I've given you the applicable Code and Act. Can't hand hold you any further than that.

                            Your original post offered nothing to OP and was just a misguided attack at me despite you clearly misreading Division 8. Please try again.

  • +2

    I'm fairly sure if this happens to you and they've never sent you a bill, they have to offer you some sort of payment plan so you can pay it off gradually.

  • +14

    OP sounds like they have a sweet hydroponic set up.

  • +2

    Wife used to manage a take away restaurant, they didn't get billed gas for a year, bill came to ~$35k. She negotiated to pay ~$10k only. YMMV

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