$3500 of Electricity Bills in One Day

So this is an odd situation, but I moved into my apartment with my partner in July 2017. We took over the bills, did all the paperwork, set up all the direct debits. All was good.

Until last Friday.

I get a letter from a company saying they will cut off my electricity the following Monday unless I call them.

It looks like a con, the website they state in the letter doesn't work, so I went to speak to a few neighbors in the building and turns out they are legitimate and the suppliers of electricity for the building. They claim since I moved in, no one has once paid for the electricity. I say I pay Origin for electricity. Look up my bills, and turns out, nope I pay Origin for gas (my heart sank). My previous apartment, I had Origin for electricity and Gas was covered by the body corp so included in the rent in the rush of moving I'd thought this was the same.

Next thing they say they are going to send me through my bills.

They send 10 bills in row, one after another, totaling over $3500.

The rates are extortionate, my partner and I both work full time and are often away, yet the bills are coming out and the average of what a 5 person house would be.

My problem is, why on earth have they taken two years to contact me? If I had seen the price of the bills I would have moved company, sorted something else, and above all else having seen the very first bill, I would have then been conscious of our electricity usage from that moment forward. Instead they have waited for me to rack up a massive debt then 2 years later, despite knowing exactly where I live, have sent their first piece of contact.

Is there any way I can challenge this legally? Is it not legally their responsibility to make contact with me in a suitable time frame? Or am I stupid and do I just suck it up and pay and move on?

Comments

    • Yeah I considered potentially negotiating and thought that would be my only option when I posted this thread to be honest.

  • I think there is a limit that they can backdate you. 10 months? I think. I cant check at the moment.
    An option is to contact the ombudsman to arbitrate for you.
    Another is to work out a payment plan

  • I'm surprised they took 2 years to disconnect you. Like others have said, you can only be charged 9 months of backdated bills and they'll need to give you equal time to pay this off. Maybe also get them to check that the meter is definitely yours and that it's not cross metered or anything like that.
    Also ask them if you sign up, if they'd be able to re-invoice you w/ discounted rates rather that the ones on standing offer. And if either your partner or yourself has a concession card, see if you can apply for URGS (relief grant)

    • The odd thing they suggested yesterday is there may be some sort of loop hole given that I hadn't actually signed up as a customer, so there is potential that they are able to charge me the full amount. Which if it happens I may have to look into relief/payment plans etc. as we are a one wage household with a new baby at the moment!

      • See if you can get some advice from EWOV (https://www.ewov.com.au/companies/embedded-networks) - it says they'll be able to take complaints. If you can get them to request for every correspondence they've sent you and any account notes (for any disconnectons there's a process that needs to be followed, if retailers skip any of it you might be eligible for a wrongful disconnection payment).

        But again my experience is with the retailer markets and not the embedded networks - might be worthwhile calling them to find out what your rights are

  • That amount sounds about right… luckily you only have to pay some of it!

    • From what I looked at it seems a bit high for a 2 person apartment, but either way, I'm happy to pay whatever it comes to, just interested in this from the legal perspective.

  • +13

    Thanks for all the responses everyone, I’ve called ombudsman, and as it is an embedded network who has not signed up with them (even though the governments latest date for all companies including those with embedded networks to sign up was 1st July 2018), ombudsman are not able to help so referred me to consumer affairs Victoria for this specific case.

    The law in Victoria is officially that you cannot backdate bills more than 9 months, but this case is now with the energy companies ‘legal team’ before they get back to me.

    • +5

      Keep us appraised of outcome please.

      • +3

        Will do

        • Thanks for the updates, it will be interesting to find out what all this means. I would also take this opportunity to look at your other, regular, bills. Things like insurance can get lost as well.

    • Let us know how it pans out.

    • +22

      It's cool if you're actually curious, but you're more just saying "You're stupid" over 5 separate questions, and then suggesting I'm deceptive in the final statement.

      • -7

        No i'm really curious.

        I want to know why you didnt' read the bills or your bank statements, or even be curious as to what your electricity cost is.

        • +4

          Alright, I'll bite, but I came here to get help not to get told I've been negligent (which I know I have been).

          I have always just thrown about 2/3 or more of my paycheck into a 'bills and rent account' anything left over at the end of the month goes into savings. I just set up things when I move in an move on. I do trust businesses to charge me correctly, because, I don't want to be checking every little thing and worrying about how long I'm spending in the shower and whether that will cost more on a water bill.

          I figure if something goes wrong, or I'm needed for something, people will contact me.

          I realise my attitude may be very 'un-ozbargain' but I'm still learning how to adult.

            • +13

              @samfisher5986: Never mind, have a good day :)

                • +4

                  @samfisher5986: I will answer those questions in my case; we also didn't get a bill for approximately 2 years. I just didn't even consider the bill. I wasn't receiving it, I was receiving my other bills so I paid them. I didn't worry about my usage for electricity because, frankly it wasn't something I cared about. If I had been receiving large bills I might of, but I wasn't. I'm not stupid but it just wan't on my radar. Bills come in, bill get paid I don't actually track them. No great conspiracy to keep people in the dark.

                • +1

                  @samfisher5986: lmao

                  not sure who you're referring to when you say 'us'.

                • +3

                  @samfisher5986: Wow you are some kind of special

      • I think he/she is asking if your gas bill is showing consumption in kWh or MJ/hr and whether the volume looks reasonable.

        • The bill which has just come through (July and August) states daily consumption average as 22.8 kWh. For our two person household and we were away from home for about 6 days during this period.

          • @cc23: And the gas bill for the last 2 years?

      • Valid questions, however the last line is a little harsh.

        I know I myself check bills every so often, just to make sure I'm getting charged for what I'm actually receiving. Makes it easier come budget time so I've got a historical record and can plan for other expenses, savings, or an OZB splurge.

    • +1

  • -6

    So it's their fault you didn't get your Electricity sorted & they kindly supplied you power for 2 years?!

    "I would have then been conscious of our electricity usage from that moment forward"

    Self Entitlement Mentality?! Otherwise you wouldn't care if you don't have to pay?!

    • +4

      Both parties have fault, it's the provider's fault for not sending him any bills.

      • Sending Mr Anonymous bills?! Or should that be Mr pResident?!

        • +2

          So if you were running an electricity company and knew the address you were supplying but not the name of the person living there, you wouldn't be able to think up any way in which you could make contact with them?

          • @callum9999: I do run my own Electricity Company (I supply all of my own Power & sell my Excess back to Origin @ 52¢/kWh). If I was supplying a Parasite I would Disconnect them in a Heartbeat, but this isn't about me! This place seems all about people with 'Self Entitlement Mentality' who come here to whinge & seek compensation for their own negligence!

  • +2

    Not sure if it has been mentioned, but if they give you a big hill covering an extended period of time, apart from the 9 month Max limit they can charge you, they also need to provide you the same amount of time to pay the bill.

    9 months of bill, 9 months to pay the bill, in these instances.

    My 6 person household bill is usually 250$ a month. So it's not very high.

  • +12

    Hey OP,

    Under NO circumstances pay that bill. Speak to the electricity company and let us know what they say about the 9 month rule.

    I used to work in Consumer Protection, so I have some experience in this space. Also something similar happened to me when I noticed after a year that I was not getting any electricity bills. I called up my electricity provider and they acknowledged that it was their fault and cant charge for more than 9 months. They also had to give me 9 months to pay off the bill.

    Please keep us in the loop and ignore the "YOU SHOULD HAVE" people on here. A community is here to help, not tear each other down (unless you are an idiot but from what I have read, I don't think you are guilty of that).

    • +7

      Thanks very much for the advice and support, above dudes are genuinely getting me down so this is nice! :)

      • +4

        ignore the naysayers. It doesn't matter what is posted you will always get the small minded self righteous crowd. As I indicated, I had exactly the same issue and the hilarious part was we didn't even change house, they just stopped sending us the bills. You spend your time paying the bills you have, I didn't even notice I hadn't received the bill. When I received the notice I had to go back through my credit card records to work out the last one we had paid. The companies were just so disorganised; I think there was some confusion as to who was meant to be our provider. It was the wholesaler that contacted us, in the end.

  • +3

    This thread made me check my new energy provider, low and behold I haven’t seen my gas usage added onto my web account.

    Gave them a quick call to confirm that gas has indeed been added into usage. Don’t want to get burned like OP.

    • Glad to hear my negligence has prevented others from the same fate!

  • +16

    So, the (nearly) verdict is in. He went away and spoke to their legal team. They can indeed only charge me for 9 months!

    The interesting part was when he was looking at the whole amount the other day he said he would offer the 20% off (early payment discount) as technically I have only just got the bills so would be paying them on time. On the phone today, however, he said he wasn't really willing to do that anymore and will "maybe apply a credit to the account on the following bill for some of the 20% amount".

    The bills are starting to come through and the very first one (July and August) is $500(!), so still not going to be cheap… but regardless of this, thanks to this forum my massive problem is now a much smaller one. Thanks everyone who helped :)

    • +3

      I wouldn't accept their first offer. Keep escalating up the food chain and make them an offer of what you would accept.

      You should check your meter to see if the numbers make sense.
      Also check to see if they did an actual read or estimated read. Anytime I've had an estimated read it has been in their favour with lots of upside for retailer.

      Going forward, ask for a better rate as they probably have you on their most expensive standing offer.

      I'd still be contacting the local equivalent of the Electricity Ombusdman to find out your options.

    • $500 seems a bit steep doesnt it for 2 months? $3500 if averaged out to 2 months is like $290 while at the moment they are looking at charging you $500? Have they told you the full 9 months worth? if 24 months came to $3500 you would hope the total for 9 months would be around the $1300 ball park figure?

  • +2

    Im still puzzled how your using that much. I'd get an electrician to check the network.. ie are you paying for someone elses gas as well

    • We pay about $250 or more a month during the hotter months.

    • Yeah good idea, suggestions on a company or something to get an electrician out? The bill which has just come through (July and August) states daily consumption average as 22.8 kWh and a total of $500 for 61 days. This is for our two person household and we were away from home for about 6 days during this period.

      • Electric central heating?

        • We have 2 oil fin heaters which were used for an hour or two in the morning and the same a night I reckon. Figure they may be a big part in this.

      • That's a fair bit for a two person household. We use about 18kWh per day with 4 of us in a large house.
        I'd be monitoring your meter whilst opening your circuit breakers, one at a time, to see where it's coming from.

      • Those rates are appalling; we pay somewhere under half of that for more consumption.

        We're in a 2 bed apartment, but water is heated centrally so doesn't consume any electricity.

        Almost all of our consumption is AC, which my wife runs about 20 hours a day… except in Winter where she'll switch to heater instead. There's a tragically amusing period in between the extremes where she'll manage to use heating and cooling in the same day. As you can see, I have some issues here :D

        We do have a dishwasher, and a dryer and use both frequently. No TV.

        Consumption is about 25kwH/day (peak on a hot day 35-40kwHish, AC is a 2kw unit only I think) annual average. Consumption when my wife and daughter were away dropped to 3-5kwH/day average over six weeks. Rates are 13.30c/kWh + GST, service charge is 56.00c/day + GST (but those are very low; even the same provider no longer offers that deal, and my contract is about to run out).

        Your consumption sounds suspiciously high unless you've got a wife like mine. Your electricity providers rates seem criminal, shop around.

        • Yeah my Mrs was pretty excited by having an AC (our first flat to have it) when we first moved in, but has never used it for more than a few hours at a time.

          • @cc23: Can we swap? :D

        • Just curious which provider are you with? 13.3 C/kWH is bloody cheap

          I am with EA and their rates is 29c kWH with 26% discount 21c which is still expensive compared to yours.

          Is Mel electricity much cheaper than Syd?

          • +1

            @luffyex2010: With Concession maybe? I'm with Tango & Jemena, my rate is 18.7 + GST and supply charge is 92 + GST. I consider that it as very low.

        • Those rates are impossible? Which distributor network (eg. Jemena, SP, Citipower) are you in?

          • @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Citipower (Melbourne 3000), Tango Energy (previously called Pacific Hydro), rates were on offer in June 2017 and the rates were fixed for two years.

            Using the VIC govt comparison site with my smart meter data, Tango is still the cheapest offer available, but it's a decent jump over these rates, yes. They don't seem to be possible right now but they were possible two years ago.

            I don't know how VIC vs NSW rates compare, I do know that these rates are crazy cheap and am sad that I will lose them shortly :(

            Offer Screenshot

            • @ely: Ah, I see what has happened. Pacific Hydro/Tango made an error and they have never noticed or corrected it to this day.

              I'd recommend switching retailer when your contract ends or you might be in for a surprise lol.

              • @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: The contract offered meant that they couldn't change the rates for two years. As noted in my comment above, they're still the cheapest offer for my usage, but quite a bit more than that.

                I'm not certain that it was an error though; they had several very cheap offers at the time, and (as you can see on the screenshot) that particular offer had been around for about six months at the time that I took it up. I think that, for whatever reason, they were just chasing growth at that point in time.

                • +1

                  @ely: Let me guess - medium to large highrise apartment? I used to be in the industry. A supply charge that low in 2017 indicates to me the now defunct Citipower retailer "bulk buy" supply charge.

                  • @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Bingo on the large highrise apartment. What's the deal with the "bulk buy" supply charge, they needed to get X number of customers in order to get a discount on the supply charge from Citipower?

                    • @ely: Too long to explain in here. Long story short, your prices will double come contract expiry!

                      • @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Their current market offer wasn't double that last time I checked; the supply charges jumped, but they're a relatively small portion of the bill (15%ish given my wife's usage patterns), but the usage charge increase was less. Overall it was looking like a 50% increase, still savage, but still less than my water bill.

                        I see all these people complaining about power bills all the time, but water costs more, with more of the costs fixed rather than consumption based, and with no choice of supplier. Why are people not bothered by that?

                      • @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Current Tango offer for VIC 3000 is supply at 103.00c/day, usage at 16.70 ¢/kWh, both + GST. So supply is a little less than double, and usage goes up by 25%. They're still the best non discounted, non demand charged rate, but there are a few that beat them by small amounts with pay on time discounts, e.g. Alinta's "Fair Deal 43" (for 12 months only).

      • Ouch. In our 2 person household we use about that much during those months too, average around 10kWh the rest of the year though. Hopefully your other bills are about half that.

      • That's really expensive for 61 days & 22.8 kWh average. Based on my current provider, i would have pay around $340.

    • I think they mentioned they have an old an inefficient aircon. We had one to the place we moved into and our bills we were nothing short of eye-watering. Finally got the money together to put in some high energy rated split systems and the difference was amazing.

      • Nah that wasn’t me, we have a pretty new aircon unit, the whole building is only about 3 or 4 years old.

        But wouldn’t have touched the air con in those months anyway.

        • Actually you reminded me when I was renting.

          We did had a 1k bill for a quarter and that help me to never take for granted any new premises electrical items. I usually monitor them when we moved into a new unit.

          I did one to one appliances check on the consumption and found out the electric water heater to be the culprit (we later set a timer for it to be off peak). Requested the landlord to change to smart metering even show him the calculations that any tenant will benefit from it.

          As it works out great for the other years. Those were the past…never want to live in a unit again.

  • You should talk to this guy:https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/443302

  • hey op. couple years back my energy bill jumped by a lot. said i used aircon a crapload, when i hadn't used it at all. energy company said i was lying. building management also said i was lying. after a couple of months, the energy company worked out that they (profanity) up billing and i was paying someone else's bills for a few months! maybe useless to your situation, but get them to double check

    • +2

      It is also worth finding out if they are estimating your usage or actually getting it off the meter. Our meter is in our garage so, for a long time, they just guessed what it was. Once we started giving them the real usage figures the costs went down. Not it is a smart meter, so not an issue anymore.

    • Yeah that’s a good point, will look this up.

  • I wouldn't pay just change companies

    • +3

      The can't change because it's an embedded network. Provider for the building.

      • Still cheaper to change the meter

        • Do you know how expensive it would be to install a standalone meter to an apartment and connect it to the retail network?

          Wouldn't get much change from about $20,000.

          • -1

            @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: ^ Mr knows everything about everything

            • @PAOK11: About this particular topic I happen to know a great deal. Thus why I'm participating.

              • -2

                @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: The AER allows customers to change from embedded networks without having to change the meter. You have to ask for a "energy only" offer and then you ask for the NMI on the meter. Sure they will give you the run around because they won't even tell their staff about the fact that legislation was passed on the 01 December 2017 which allows you to switch out of a embedded network. but I guess you know all this right ?

                • +1

                  @PAOK11: Sure do. I was involved with this exact process for a client.

                  I never said you had to change the meter. You incorrectly stated that.

                  Embedded network meters do not have a NMI.

                  And of course the embedded network retailer staff will have no training in this. They are not involved in the process and aren't under the AER anyways.

    • Yeah these guys don’t seem great, but I’m happy to pay the 9 months obviously. I would love to change supplier, but as it’s an embedded network I literally can’t. I’ve spoken to another couple in the building who didn’t get a bill off them for a year at one point. Just seems like they are crazy disorganised with this stuff.

      • -2

        Hrmmm, its a tough one but they are not legally obligated to offer you the nine months as you failed to contact them to sign up. Although you could offer the 9 months for negotiation purposes. What I think has happened the guy before you didn't call them to organise the disconnection of the service. The electricity company are then far too slack in following this up. The issue that remains for you is, you might be paying for his outstanding electricity bill because they can't get the money from him so they have slumped it on you.

        • +1

          OP already confirmed 18 hours ago that the retailer agreed to 9 months max.

          OP has lived there for nearly 2 years. He isn't paying someone's elses charges "slumped" on them.

      • When I moved into an apartment in Melbourne, I couldn't get any retailer to connect electricity. I then asked my building manager who told me the provider was WinConnect (formerly WINenergy). Signing up with them was easy and I made sure to contact them in advance before I moved out. Good landlords or agents usually tell tenants such information (e.g. embedded network provider) because they are less commonly known.

        So I think the issue is largely related to your failure to check electricity bills correctly and just assumed your Origin bill already included that. I guess it's also a bit coincidental because for many buildings, Origin is the sole provider for Bulk Hot Water. Otherwise, Origin was probably unable to bill you for anything, and you would have found out this issue earlier.

        Saying that, for a 3-person apartment in Melbourne CBD, our electricity bill from the embedded network was around $60 per month in 2015 with an average daily usage of about 4 to 5 kWh.

        (For comparison, the electricity usage for our 2-person apartment in USA was 3 times more (~16 kWh per day) due to 24x7 thermostat-controlled A/C or furnace, but the average cost was only $45 per month.)

  • You need to change your billing to online, 10 bills…that's like 10 quarters/3500 =350 per quarter sounds normal without the energy discount scheme.

    You would be surprise how much electricity has gone up since 2017 usage will peak during winter and summer and your air conditions and heater are usually the culprit. Check on their power output consumption.

    • It’s every 2 month billing by the looks, but yeah absolutely I need to start looking at the air cons and stuff, but I guess that is almost a separate issue altogether.

  • -6

    What’s the complaint? This seem perfectly reasonable for 2 years electricity. Pay it. Move on. Check your meter. Get a new supplier. Harden up. Shut up.

    • Suggest you get a new electricity plan.

      When I had a 4 adult household our bills were ~$1200/pa. I'm in a 1.5 person place now and pay $700pa for elec and $300pa gas. $1700pa for elec in a 2 person apartment is nuts.

      • that's too cheap when the supply charge is $30 odd a month. That leaves $28 for usage

        • For Gas?
          Supply charge is 43c/day less 15% PoT discount = 37c/day = $11/m? x12= $132pa. Back of envelope calcs leaves $168 for usage at 0.0445-15% = 0.038c/Mj = 12Mj/day doesn't it? According to my bill I average about 7Mj/day for hot water and the cooktop. Maybe I've stuffed up the calcs…

          Elec (up until 01/03/19) was $1.01/day less 40% PoT = 61c = $18.30/m supply charge. This has just gone up to $1.20-40%. After Easter I'll find a new retailer.

          • @brad1-8tsi: Nice you found a plan that applies POT on the supply charge.

            • @PAOK11: It is unusual. No longer offered (Amaysim introductory offer) and they've just put all the tariffs up by 20+% so I'll move on once they pay me my $125 12 month retention bonus in April.

              Have had a quick look at Wattever.com.au and can probably save ~$200 on the new pricing.

      • I just did $700 for the quarter thru summer, that’s the cheapest plan on the market, 28% discount on usage and lowest usage fees. I’ve compared them all. That’s why I have the solar guy putting in a system currently.

  • hang on, im confused. you moved into a new place, forgot to connect an electricity supply, yet still had electricity?

    i thought unless you ask for an electricity supply, there will literally be no power

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