eBay Buyer Has Accused Me of Sending Him an Empty Box - Am I Stuffed?

Tafe on 07/04/2018 - 16:04
Last edited 07/04/2018 - 16:47 by 1 other user

OK, so I see there are heaps of threads about buyer/seller disputes on eBay, but I want to play too.

I sold a LEGO set on eBay last week. Brand new and factory sealed - in fact, it's one of those ones with a clear front panel where you can see the contents.

Not super high value, $60, and I accepted his offer of $50.

I sent it the next day via courier and it arrives about 48 hours later.

All tracking etc are in good order and listed in eBay/PayPal

Yesterday, I get a VERY theatrical "return request notification" with the text - roughly;

"I am outraged! I arrive home and I see this item at my doorstep and I get all excited, rip open the package and what do I get? Nothing. Absolutely nothing
except for an empty, stupid box! You decided to take out all of the parts, keep them yourself and send me this garbage. This is disgusting! I am lodging
this complaint in my frustration that how could you even think about doing this to someone. What, was it because I was shopping around and you gave me a
$10 discount, so you took revenge and took out the parts? I have included photos as proof of what you have done. I expect a full refund immediately and for
you to never do this again to anyone."

Accompanying the text are three staged photos of an empty box, surrounded by torn packaging.

Googling reveals that there are plenty of seller whinging about eBay/PayPal tending to favour buyers over sellers, and that sellers seem to cop it with scammy buyers. Are they right?

I haven't replied to the buyer at all.

BUT, I message eBay customer service chat and they seem really helpful. They say that they will look into this blokes account, and request from him a statutory declaration before proceeding.

I'm pretty happy with this - the dude's gotta be pretty brave to lie in a stat dec right?

I feel like eBay kind of have my back on this one, but now I'm concerned about PayPal - my understanding is that you can lodge a dispute with both eBay AND PayPal separately? And either can be in your favour or against?

I was thinking that I get on the front foot and contact PayPal like I did with eBay, but I don't want to open up a dispute (?) that I might lose/regret.

What would you do?

General Discussion

Related Stores

eBay Australia
eBay Australia
Marketplace

Comments

  • datafellows on 07/04/2018 - 16:13
    +40

    Does your Australia Post receipt have indication of package weight when you shipped it?

    • Tafe on 07/04/2018 - 16:14
      +7

      That would have been good but no, it was a pre-paid weight.

      • Bismar on 07/04/2018 - 17:27
        +59

        Try tweeting Auspost explaining your situation and asking them if their parcels are weighed anywhere in their logistics chain.

        These parcels move through automated scanning facilities and who knows if weighing is part of their standard process.

        Either way, let us know what you find to help anyone else in the future!

        • Tafe on 07/04/2018 - 17:42
          +3

          That would be cool. I will try this.

        • ronnknee on 07/04/2018 - 19:20

          I don't think they do.

        • D6C1 on 07/04/2018 - 22:37

          @ronnknee: They do. If the parcel weight doesnt match the contents expected weight, it's searched for drugs and shit

        • ronnknee on 07/04/2018 - 22:38

          @D6C1:

          I don't think a mismatch in weight warrants a drug search. Source?

        • D6C1 on 07/04/2018 - 22:40
          +3

          @ronnknee: of course. They would also trace it back to the source that sent it and check their involvement in the underworld.

        • ronnknee on 07/04/2018 - 22:42

          @D6C1:

          Not sure if you're trolling. I meant, how are you certain that a mismatch in weight of a parcel gets searched? How do you know this?

        • [Deactivated] on 08/04/2018 - 04:40
          +6

          @D6C1: Such as paid up membership of the local thieves guild, have you appeared in an episode of Underbelly etc.

        • idonotknowwhy on 08/04/2018 - 08:54
          +3

          @D6C1: > drugs and shit

          There's a dog turd in here

        • D6C1 on 08/04/2018 - 09:17
          +1

          @idonotknowwhy: That gets smelt out fairly quickly.

        • shadowangel on 08/04/2018 - 13:13
          +2

          @Tafe:
          They do have the machines that do it, eparcel you can request the information which I have done in the past.

          Parcel post may be different. Even with this information you have next to no chance of winning a not as described claim.

          Online fraud is getting really bad at the moment as most people know they can get there money back by charge back regardless if the item is received or not.

        • idonotknowwhy on 08/04/2018 - 23:44
          -1

          @D6C1: lol why the negs? It was a family guy reference, when peter put the dog turd in the film case, then Mel Gibson opened it immediately and said that.

        • D6C1 on 09/04/2018 - 08:20
          +2

          @idonotknowwhy: Hey mate.. wasn't me that negged you. Just gave you a +

        • resisting the urge on 09/04/2018 - 11:26

          @idonotknowwhy: @D6C1/@idonotknowwhy; Not if the turd is wrapped in bubblewrap. Whoever sends anything not wrapped in bubblewrap these days?

        • rustynail on 09/04/2018 - 13:21

          Parcels are generally weighed when they are processed on parcel sorting machines. They can get this information for you if required.

        • Mosher on 10/04/2018 - 06:40

          @chickenface:

          Local thieves guild!!!

          Another terry pratchett fan I see :)

  • Slippery Fish on 07/04/2018 - 16:13
    +33

    Send scary looking blokes to his address who knock and say "just don't…. You know what you did."

    • tomsco on 07/04/2018 - 17:08
      +20

      Bickies?

      • JJJ on 07/04/2018 - 17:53
        +11

        You mean Bikies?

        • Kangal on 07/04/2018 - 18:10
          +85

          Nah, bickies. Grab em Tam Tims.

        • kahn on 07/04/2018 - 18:38
          +5

          @Kangal:
          You know what you did!

        • tomsco on 07/04/2018 - 21:19
          +1

          Careful. Some people have gotten annoyed with the bikies reference.

        • Tamtim on 07/04/2018 - 21:41
          +7

          @Kangal: What's his address… 😎

        • [Deactivated] on 07/04/2018 - 23:20
          +4

          @tomsco: We should get bikies to deal with them.

        • [Deactivated] on 08/04/2018 - 16:39

          @Kangal:

          Send Clive Palmer?

        • Fizzydrink on 09/04/2018 - 12:51

          Delete this comment!

        • porterble on 09/04/2018 - 14:54
          +1

          @tomsco:
          Yeah. I think its the lycra that offends them.

      • blitz on 08/04/2018 - 00:48
        +7

        Yep. Send round the iced vo-vos.

      • cashless on 08/04/2018 - 09:14
        +9

        Given the context, I think he meant Brickies

      • jasecutler on 09/04/2018 - 12:33
        +2

        "Bickies?"

        You're going to send the bloke some biscuits? Nice nice, you're trying the melt-his-heart strategy.

        • 2ndeffort on 10/04/2018 - 16:19
          +1

          No Brickies, they are going to seal up all the exits from his house until he retracts the claim!

  • oscargamer on 07/04/2018 - 16:17
    +6

    You are stuffed.
    Sorry.

    • oscargamer on 07/04/2018 - 19:41
      +30

      But I like the idea of weighing the box. No harm in telling him / trying to bluff him, that the receipt you have has the weight of the parcel and that shows you posted a full box…..

      • [Deactivated] on 08/04/2018 - 10:37
        +7

        How the hell did he think there was something inside it if it was empty

        • singlemalt72 on 08/04/2018 - 18:56
          +4

          Exactly - why did he tear it open if he would be able to clearly see there was nothing in it if that was the case?

        • [Deactivated] on 10/04/2018 - 17:21
          +1

          @singlemalt72:

          My thoughts exactly - if there is a window on the box - why tear it open when you know there's nothing in it ???

        • Tafe on 10/04/2018 - 21:27
          +1

          @Michegianni: because the dude is shifty, that's why.

  • doweyy on 07/04/2018 - 16:17
    +8

    You'll be fine, PayPal also has seller protection for things like this, he won't risk signing the stat dec for a $50 transaction if he's lying.

    eBay will tell the courier company to also look into it if he's telling the truth, because someone there could have stolen it.

    You have protection in cases like this.

    • Blitzfx on 08/04/2018 - 03:21
      +35

      thieves and criminals aren't necessarily the brightest and they're probably not going to realise the gravity of lying on a stat dec.

      • jorf on 08/04/2018 - 07:59
        +18

        Possibly the hassle of going to get a stat dec would be enough to get them to drop it though.

        • Blitzfx on 08/04/2018 - 22:04
          +3

          Oh, this is true as well. I forgot they're usually also lazy

        • Splashtash on 08/04/2018 - 22:42
          +113

          Yer I Agree. Make it as annoying as F*K for him. Write a quick mail to him and be sincere. Something like this I would say.

          Hello Barry123iamadouchebag,

          Wow! I cant believe there was nothing inside. Are you sure you got the right parcel? I am a person who prides myself on checks, security and thoroughness so we can easily get to the bottom of this. I am a very cautious person who distrusts the postal system.
          I took a photo of the weight, date, and time when the item was getting sent via the postal service and have a receipt.The postal office always records weight as well so we might have to spend some time dealing with the post office. I have also lodged a complaint with the postal service, paypal and ebay. (Not sure if you want to add this as maybe its a bit strong? - I am even thinking of getting the police on board as I hate theft). These matters usually take a while and generally requires the buyer to make a statutory declaration so they can follow up matters in case of fraud. I am also thinking a strange idea as well. Its just that it happened to a mate of mine and I wonder it could of happened to you. Well one day my mate ordered something online and asked for it to be dropped of at his door step. My mate thought it was safe you know. Anyway, as he sighted the box he ordered, he had noticed it looked a bit strange, like someone had unwrapped the original box, taken out the item and wrapped it back up again with nothing inside it.
          This was confirmed by his neighbours cctv. He later spoke with his neighbour who showed him the footage and reported it to the police. Bizarre ey? Maybe this happened to you? Anyway, like I said, I am very determined to get to the bottom of this so please let me know if I can assist you further.

          Regards,

          Honestseller

        • gimme on 08/04/2018 - 23:20
          +19

          @Calmerancer:

          ++ for effort

        • abb on 09/04/2018 - 11:52
          +12

          @Calmerancer: Just don't make a claim of taking a photo or weight that you aren't able to produce when later requested by ebay/paypal/police.

        • thisispete on 09/04/2018 - 15:22
          +16

          @gimme:

          A+++++ Excellent commenter, would allow to post again.

        • Splashtash on 09/04/2018 - 21:14

          @abb: why not? you could of misplaced it by then or accidentally given them the wrong one if it gets to that stage, mistakes happen! I see your point though :)

        • abb on 10/04/2018 - 10:48
          +6

          @Calmerancer:

          Imagine the arbitrator in this case, with this transcript is presented as evidence:

          Buyer: "I got an empty box"
          Seller: "Nah, I got videos of me packing that box, can prove I weighed it at the post box and all"

          Arbitrator: "OK seller, please submit the video"

          Seller: "Oh, I lost it"

          Arbitrator: "And the evidence of weighing it?"

          Seller: "Oh, I lost it too"

          Arbitrator: "I don't believe you, scummy seller. Buyer wins. Case closed. No appeals will be heard."

      • Hirolol on 08/04/2018 - 09:00

        Let's say for example, he signs the statdec then auspost actually have weighed the package and there is evidence of the item being sent.

        What happens to this guy for lying on the stat Dec?

        • OzBrogains on 09/04/2018 - 21:03
          +2

          You browse Ozbargain to find mi goreng specials because you'll need to for a few weeks to pay the fine and/or loss of employment due to a criminal record.

        • trapper on 11/04/2018 - 11:48

          Unfortunately it's almost impossible to prove he lied.

          The item could have been removed from the packaging after it was sent for example.

      • gromit on 10/04/2018 - 09:49

        there is no real gravity/penalty for lying in cases like this though as it is impossible to prove he is lying unless he bragged to a friend about it, it is purely your word against his, he isn't really at any risk by signing it unless you can provide concrete proof of his deception, especially as he is claiming it was left on the door as their is always the possibility (however stupidly remote) that someone else got to the package first.

    • eggboi on 10/04/2018 - 15:54

      If paypal seller protection craps out, you can always file a dispute with the FOS (financial ombudsman service). They can’t just take your money because they took some scammer’s word over yours.

      • Morphio25 on 12/04/2018 - 07:52

        +1 - I did exactly this myself. Sold main board on OCAU to some (profanity) in Perth. (profanity) then opens PayPal dispute claiming when he got it board doesn't work. I of course say it was working perfectly fine and that he must have mishandled it. PayPal sides with buyer, debits my account $200 which they give to him. I continue to fight the case and demand to get the board back. Buyer takes over two weeks to ship the board back and in the mean time I went to the FOS and filed a complaint against PayPal. Within 48 hours they gave me my money back. A week and a half later I get the board back from the buyer (cost him $30 postage!!) and found that several pins had been bent when he tried to place his CPU in the board.

        Moral of the story is to always extensively photograph anything you sell. Bonus points if you can video it working.

        Personally I just disallow PayPal now for any transactions I do over the Internet unless I'm the one buying.

    • 2ndeffort on 10/04/2018 - 16:21
      +2

      They will look into the account and if the same guy has 43 different accounts using gmail accounts, all from the same delivery address and each account has made 1 purchase each before being banned they will find in your favour.

  • Cheap Charlie on 07/04/2018 - 16:20
    +15

    As far as PayPal is concerned, I would not be suprissed if they refund the buyer.
    I would reply to the buyer and call their bluff.
    Some thing along the lines of cctv footage showing the item complete and unopened being placed in a box for shipping, sealed and the courier collecting the carton.
    I would note that if the buyer intends to continue with the scam that you have full intention of reporting the fraud to the police.

    • teacherer on 07/04/2018 - 16:38
      +2

      Some thing along the lines of cctv footage showing the item complete and unopened being placed in a box for shipping, sealed and the courier collecting the carton

      I like this idea and the stat Dec the best

      Good luck

    • [Deactivated] on 08/04/2018 - 22:12
      +19

      Never make threats you cannot fulfil.

      If he is remotely smart enough, he'd realise that you served an unnecessary warning. The buyer knows he is being fraudulent and he knows there's no goodwill from the seller. No reasonable person with such conclusive proof will show their hand this early. .

      If you get called on a bluff like that, eBay and PayPal may change sides. There is no conclusive proof of the buyer telling the truth nor a lie but there will be strong evidence that the seller lied in their bluff.

  • TheBilly on 07/04/2018 - 16:42
    +4

    You might need to flee the country…

  • Geoff897 on 07/04/2018 - 16:45
    +33

    Yeah honestly think you'll have a hard time winning, Ebay and paypal mainly only support the buyer, Without buyers there platforms don't work.

    I sold a genuine copy of windows XP with no key for $40, Buyer complained and said the cd is useless because he didnt have a key (It was very clear it came with no key, he even said he understood it came without the key). After a week of contesting with ebay i won that battle then he then went to paypal and he won.

    I then called paypal to explain again and again that the listing did not include a key, After a week i ended up getting it turned around and refunded.

    Then i got Neg feedback, But a quick call to ebay it was removed

    All for $40

    Its just way too much time to contest being a seller, Which is why i closed my ebay store

    • PAOK11 on 07/04/2018 - 21:20

      Yep same with my store, not worth it. Somehow an item was sent to QLD when supposed to go to SA on hold with Auspost for over an hour. That was enough for me

    • furyou on 07/04/2018 - 22:43
      +13

      you sold a winxp cd. I hope you're talking about 15yrs ago.
      otherwise you have great salesmanship!

    • Matslurpee on 08/04/2018 - 08:09
      +24

      $40 for a cd? Did you used to work for sanity?

      • Geoff897 on 08/04/2018 - 10:19

        Thanks guys, I guess a cd is easier for some. Not everyone is good with computers.
        Must be classed as rare or maybe just old…

        • EightImmortals on 09/04/2018 - 09:25
          +3

          Wow, I'm pretty sure I have an unopened copy of Windows 95 downstairs, all 30 floppy discs, could be worth a fortune by now… :)

        • macrocephalic on 10/04/2018 - 15:16

          @EightImmortals: at $40 per disk!

          <pedant>a floppy disk is spelled disk. A compact disc is spelled disc.</pedant>

    • mrau on 08/04/2018 - 11:31
      +7

      Lol, selling windows with no key? What's the use of it to the buyer?

      • Geoff897 on 08/04/2018 - 11:38

        Well hopefully they have their own key but ive sold 20+ copies

        • smartazz104 on 09/04/2018 - 10:31
          +1

          If people have a Windows key they could just download a copy of Windows…

        • Geoff897 on 09/04/2018 - 11:57

          @smartazz104:
          I agree, They could but it shows there is a market to sell old stuff.

          Not everyone knows how to locate an ISO download and burn or have the technology to do it all now it's all out dated

          I know I don't have a burner these days or blank disc's just lying around.

        • aragornelessar on 10/04/2018 - 15:17
          +4

          @smartazz104:

          Australia Post delivery times vs Australian internet download times.. now there's a close contest!

    • freemoneyhunter on 08/04/2018 - 13:15
      +21

      Gee genuine XP copy without a key for $40. That's like taking a picture of a mobile phone box and saying what you see is what you get and simply deliver the box. You are going get a lot of unhappy buyers. They might not know what a software key is, the value of a "genuine" xp cd without a key is 0. You can easily download the ISO and burn it to a cd for next to nothing and use a key to activate it. Glad you are not a seller anymore.

      • Geoff897 on 08/04/2018 - 17:54
        +2

        You wouldn't be good at sales :)

        People sell the ISO link on ebay… People sell sand and Air and stupid shit for crying out loud whats wrong buying a original DVD.

        Its a waste of time trying to find a legit download, Then a PC these days to burn it, A blank disc, The right software and burning at a slow speed to make it work. You will spent more time stuffing around then spending the $40 for an original.

        Who has all this old tech lying around ready to burn a dvd or cd?

        Even stuffing around to put it on a usb will take you more then $40 worth of your time.

        • Cronium on 08/04/2018 - 18:04
          +5

          No need to be smug off profiting from the technologically disabled.

        • Geoff897 on 08/04/2018 - 18:12
          -7

          @Cronium:
          $40 minus $10 in tracked postage, minus eBay and PayPal fees.

          Probably $15/20 in my pocket isn't really taking advantage

        • Tyrx on 08/04/2018 - 21:00
          +1

          @Cronium:

          If it makes you feel better, he's liable for civil action from Microsoft. That trick isn't new, and Mircosoft have a history of chasing up and prosecuting individuals who have previously done it.

        • callum9999 on 08/04/2018 - 21:00
          +5

          @Geoff897: $20 in your pocket for selling an almost worthless product which you have deliberately disguised as being valuable to trick people who don't understand software licensing…

        • Geoff897 on 08/04/2018 - 22:32
          +2

          @callum9999:
          20+ other buyers didn't have any complaints buying the same product, photo and description.

          There was nothing unclear about the listing

          The person who complained knew the key wasn't included but still bought it anyway.

        • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2018 - 11:11
          +8

          @Geoff897:
          I have no idea why you're receiving any flak. You are selling items as described.

        • airzone on 09/04/2018 - 17:23
          +1

          @tshow: Indeed.. Many old computers have the OEM stickers on them still, and the owner may have chucked the CD out ages ago.. It's perfectly plausible to purchase install media without the need of a key.

        • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2018 - 17:26
          +1

          @airzone:
          It doesn't even have to be justified. If anyone wants to sell soiled undies, go ahead, as long as it is accurately described.

          It's frustrating to see people wanting control over stuff for sale.

        • callum9999 on 09/04/2018 - 21:04
          -4

          @tshow: I said nothing about forcing them to stop - I merely called them unethical. Which they clearly are.

        • callum9999 on 09/04/2018 - 21:07
          -3

          @Geoff897: The fact you've successfully fooled 20 gullible people is completely irrelevant to my point.

          Keep telling yourself that all you like - whatever helps you sleep…

      • smalltime0 on 09/04/2018 - 12:51
        +2

        No, it is like taking a photo of a mobile phone box and saying
        "Empty box only, as pictured"
        Which people do buy.

  • Zachary on 07/04/2018 - 16:47
    +1

    ….should have taped yourself packaging the item and posting it. Then give him the footage and tell him to (profanity) off. ☺

  • iratepirate on 07/04/2018 - 16:52
    +28

    I'd contact the scammer and tell them you weighed the package before you sent it. Ask for the package to be returned so you can weigh it again and prove they are lying.

    I'd also mention that Ebay will be sending them a stat dec and that the penalties for falsely making a declaration are severe - four years imprisonment. Bonus points if you make the tone of the email the same "moral outrage" they've used.

    • activ8newbs on 07/04/2018 - 19:34
      +4

      THIS!

      Although eBay and/or Paypal may support the buyer, you've definitely got the upper edge when it comes to getting back at the scum of a buyer.

      Let the milk curdle for a bit…don't reply just yet. Give them a few days of anxiety. Hopefully in this time, the stat dec is sent out to the buyer.

      Then hit them with the "Thanks for raising your concern. I've got great news - I've successfully been able to follow up the case with my local Aus Post. I've managed to get hold of CCTV Footage showing the complete package being shipped out" etc.

      Then hit him with the Stat Dec penalties as above. I LIKEYYY

      Update us after :)

      • resubaehtgnolhcs on 08/04/2018 - 00:24
        +7

        Common sense dictates that even if CCTV footage was available all you would see is a package (that is covered) being handed over. The buyer in this case is alleging the package was empty - CCTV won't confirm or deny that, and the buyer can call OPs bluff here!

        • poohduck on 08/04/2018 - 15:26

          And, everyone is assuming just one possibility, that the buyer is a scammer. If the buyer is a scammer he is a rude cock for assuming the seller is a scammer too. His attitude is pretty arrogant, and it does smell of a scam. Making those threats full of anger and outrage - he smells.

          The possibilities of what could have happened to the package are only limited by our imaginations. It could be that neither the buyer or the seller knows what happened.

    • tinx on 07/04/2018 - 22:15
      +15

      karma most of time doesn't work

      and ebay doesn't care about those buyers as long they buy through them.

      • foxmulder on 07/04/2018 - 22:20
        -5

        Hi obviously you won't be monitoring what will happen to that buyer for years to come. The thought of karma will work is comforting though.

        • poohduck on 08/04/2018 - 15:30
          +1

          Karma was designed to keep the unwashed and starving masses of India content with their lot in life while a few of their fellows lived in luxury. It is losing it's effectiveness in India as more people become educated and question the whole concept. The untouchables are rebelling

        • EightImmortals on 09/04/2018 - 09:28

          @poohduck: My name is Earl.

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join