eBay Buyer Has Accused Me of Sending Him an Empty Box - Am I Stuffed?

Tafe on 07/04/2018 - 16:04
Last edited 07/04/2018 - 16:47 by 1 other user

OK, so I see there are heaps of threads about buyer/seller disputes on eBay, but I want to play too.

I sold a LEGO set on eBay last week. Brand new and factory sealed - in fact, it's one of those ones with a clear front panel where you can see the contents.

Not super high value, $60, and I accepted his offer of $50.

I sent it the next day via courier and it arrives about 48 hours later.

All tracking etc are in good order and listed in eBay/PayPal

Yesterday, I get a VERY theatrical "return request notification" with the text - roughly;

"I am outraged! I arrive home and I see this item at my doorstep and I get all excited, rip open the package and what do I get? Nothing. Absolutely nothing
except for an empty, stupid box! You decided to take out all of the parts, keep them yourself and send me this garbage. This is disgusting! I am lodging
this complaint in my frustration that how could you even think about doing this to someone. What, was it because I was shopping around and you gave me a
$10 discount, so you took revenge and took out the parts? I have included photos as proof of what you have done. I expect a full refund immediately and for
you to never do this again to anyone."

Accompanying the text are three staged photos of an empty box, surrounded by torn packaging.

Googling reveals that there are plenty of seller whinging about eBay/PayPal tending to favour buyers over sellers, and that sellers seem to cop it with scammy buyers. Are they right?

I haven't replied to the buyer at all.

BUT, I message eBay customer service chat and they seem really helpful. They say that they will look into this blokes account, and request from him a statutory declaration before proceeding.

I'm pretty happy with this - the dude's gotta be pretty brave to lie in a stat dec right?

I feel like eBay kind of have my back on this one, but now I'm concerned about PayPal - my understanding is that you can lodge a dispute with both eBay AND PayPal separately? And either can be in your favour or against?

I was thinking that I get on the front foot and contact PayPal like I did with eBay, but I don't want to open up a dispute (?) that I might lose/regret.

What would you do?

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Comments

  • gimme on 08/04/2018 - 22:33

    This is why I stopped selling anything on ebay ages ago. Not worth the hassle. Believe it or not I prefer Gumtree and CASH. Most of the time I don't even give them my address and meet around the corner.

    • Omitsukasa on 09/04/2018 - 10:43

      I like Gumtree too, but I wouldn't meet sellers who refuse to meet at their house. Just seems suss, like they're afraid i'd come back for them because they're selling me faulty goods.

      • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2018 - 20:36
        +1

        not at all, i only meet people outside the home to trade as it's too dangerous otherwise to invite strangers to your place. They know who you are but they are anonymous and there are loads of creeps on there and morons who don't turn up or turn up unannounced….

        • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2018 - 20:37

          saying that I'd be very hesistant to buy electrical, phones etc from gumtree

  • foxmulder on 08/04/2018 - 22:37
    +1

    If you're sure he/she is a minor, why not try to search his/her last name in that location, in case the parent's phone number is registered in there, and you can try to talk to them explaining what happen. Hopefully the parents is not in cahoot. Or try as well the phone number in the shipment packing slip - it may be the parent's phone number.

    • ozzpete on 09/04/2018 - 09:07
      +1

      This worked for me. I said I would call his dad and let him know what his son has been up to ripping people off on ebay. It worked, and the young man sent the items I had paid him for without any further hassles.

  • [Deactivated] on 08/04/2018 - 22:57

    This has happened to me multiple times and I've lost every time. Good luck.

  • luffyex2010 on 08/04/2018 - 23:00

    Yes the world consists of not so honest people of buyers and sellers on ebay.

    My record of being scammed of ebay are 2 large amount of money (not counting gumtree transaction..psn cards, someone wanted to sell me a used shaver with hairs in it when he posted as brand new lol) but the experience sort of help me not/avoid repeating the same mistakes unfortunately some people who are born to this world are not taught the basic honesty from their home/parents.

    Here are my short tips.
    1)Always take photos of your parcels in and out.
    2)Always package it in a way that you can proof that the package is sabotage.
    3)Always weight in at the post office and get a receipt. Keep it until the seller provides feedback.
    4)Always banned buyers from ….certain countries, minimum +ve feedback ratings, and no buyers with -ve ratings.
    5)Ur item is $60….poorthang its unimaginable what people will/can do just to get something they want…silly me think for such petty crime. Make sure you get seller to op for insurance if its a valuable item.

    Times have changed the conman,crook, thieves have also evolved. They can now be the buyer and the seller….

    Ebay Article

    P.S Facebook or Google Earth his house….sometimes cheap scum of the planet live in cheap slums of the Earth. It could maybe tell you abit on this guy. Social network and tech are your best friends :)

    All the best Bruce Lee.

  • RocketSwitch on 08/04/2018 - 23:48

    Going through something like this too.

    Sold a game on eBay. UK PAL version.

    Buyer thinks it's German because it's multilingual. Back cover has German/English.

    Now going through the shit for $18.

    I stated in my post it's UK PAL, no refunds, read before you buy.

    Already got eBay to remove negative feedback, now buyer requesting return.

    People are weird. Every buyer I have issues with (that's BS), I place them on a block list on eBay.

    • netsurfer on 09/04/2018 - 01:17

      feeBay don't care what you put into the listing. There is no such thing as return not accepted. Return within 7 days only in listing is equally useless.

      If you want to sell on feeBay, you must be prepared to accept returns.

      • RocketSwitch on 09/04/2018 - 09:58

        I do not think they're that bad, but I may change my mind after the outcome and let you know if what you say above is 100% true. But, you're probably right.

        • netsurfer on 09/04/2018 - 10:36

          I just went through a case where the customer wanted to return the item. It was fine with me because for me, if the buyer was unhappy about the item, there is no point for me to taking the money. The return case was raised after the time specified in the listing. However, it was NOT buyer's fault because we went through some time to try to troubleshoot the issues. FeeBay system allowed the case being raised (that's why I wrote what you put in for return period is useless). Same goes for who pays for the refund.

          I understand it can be frustrating and the item is working fine. However, if the buyer is unhappy about it, the chance of you changing his/her mind is very low (unless it is an obvious user error and you actually assist the buyer to get the technical issue completely resolved). From my limited experience, people buying games on feeBay care a lot about the case. I've been trying to sell a game without case with zero luck, yet I see buyers willing to spend 3X more to buy the exact same game but with a case.

          Selling games on feeBay (and game related products, especially codes) are high risk. If you saved on postage, there is a chance the case could arrive damaged (I have purchased games from big retailers and they used cheap packaging, and the case was damaged badly). If you use really safe packaging, you cannot offer a competitive price. Also, buyers can change their mind easily when it comes to games.

          Once you sold sufficient quantity of items on feeBay, you will encounter something unexpected. It's best to handle them professionally. If the user has left a negative feedback, the chance of him paying for the return postage is low (and eBay actually recommend sellers provide return postage label).

        • RocketSwitch on 09/04/2018 - 12:20

          @netsurfer:

          If it's my issue, I would gladly refund, no issues. But, when the buyer is taking the piss, there is no chance.

          eBay will remove the negative feedback if it's uncalled for (they did for me). Twice now.

          I have sold about 300ish games on eBay, only 1 issue (some people freak out when you have to select English in language select lol).

          But, one thing is for sure, eBay will support the buyer if they're not happy. BUT, they will support the seller too.

          In my example that's going now, so far it looks like they will decide in the middle. I keep the money and the buyer gets a refund. But, they said, they need to decide on keeping game or getting refund. eBay might pay for postage. But, what is clear is, they're for the buyer, but they don't leave the seller completely out it seems.

          You really have to state in your listing everything. EB Games for example purposely send you broken cases, they do not care. The guy I am dealing with receives brand new game and freaks out because it's multilingual version for UK and calls it misleading lol

        • netsurfer on 09/04/2018 - 12:56

          @RocketSwitch: The thing with eBay is that anything that's not local version needs to spell out very clearly (every details). I once sold a router where I specified DD-WRT firmware used. The buyer was very unhappy that the router's DD-WRT firmware does not have VPN server support. When you specified UK PAL version, people would assume it is more or less like AUS version (for the game itself).

          If the support from eBay you are referring to is remove unfair negative feedbacks, then I don't think that's substantial support. I am surprised eBay would let you keep the money first. Then, ask the buyer to decide on a refund or keeping the game (if buyer opted for refund, does he send the game back - if yes, to eBay or you?). When a buyer requests a refund, normally, eBay wants the seller to fund the return postage cost (I just went through a case recently) and they expect seller to refund in full. Please do not take eBay support's words for it. A lot of time, we - sellers, when told that eBay "may" rule or do certain things assume that's what's going to happen. I've been burned by eBay support's misinformation. If PayPal is involved in this, information from eBay support can be incorrect. For eBay to inject funds into PayPal to deal with this just seems too good to be true. I doubt PayPal seller protection covers item not as described or customer returns.

          My eBay purchase which I received a broken case wasn't from EB games (but I have purchased a game from EB games - physical store, where the case was broken; didn't realise until I returned home and removed the sealed packaging). For the eBay purchase, the seller agreed to send a replacement case and I was fine with that. The game was dirt cheap (single digit price) that it is more cost effective for me to keep it rather than send it back. Interestingly, it was a non-AU version.

        • RocketSwitch on 10/04/2018 - 11:49

          @netsurfer: I agree. You would think though, UK PAL, exactly the same as AUS but with more language options, the buyer was trying to scam, to find a way to get this for free and took the opportunity. That buyer now joins my banned list and got noted for their feedback extortion.

          eBay have come back to me and decided in favour of the buyer. So they get to keep the game and refund, but they said I am not at fault either, and I get to keep the money.

          eBay took the hit. So, looks like they're 100% for the buyer, but do not necessarily leave the seller out.

          The buyer must be loving it. Free game and money back.

        • netsurfer on 10/04/2018 - 13:31

          @RocketSwitch: It's good that you get to keep your money, and the buyer doesn't need to organise a return. However, to be totally objective, it is not entirely the buyer's fault.

          I totally understand that for most sellers, they would be unwilling to accept return for brand new items. However, the official eBay policy is that returns are allowed (the setting you pick in the listing doesn't hold up - think ACCC). I have no issue accepting returns from buyers (if a buyer is unhappy about an item, it is not right for me to take the money).

          Yes, it often feels that most buyers want to keep the item (and have it free). However, our postage cost here has a lot to do with that. For a buyer to file a claim for PayPal Return, he has to send registered post. That cost is generally more than the buyer paid for sending the game out. And, the buyer is already upset about the whole situation. When the seller is a bit hostile, that takes away further incentive to send back the item. That's why eBay recommend seller provide return postage label to the buyer.

          Selling non-AU version games here, by default, carry higher risks. Buyers already have some doubt (it is not their preferred option) and it is the attractive price that's making them purchase those. As soon as they feel something is not quite right, that uneasy feeling about non local version kicks in right away.

        • RocketSwitch on 10/04/2018 - 14:27

          @netsurfer: You make a good point.

          If I was a eBay business, I would have accepted the return and paid for postage. Regardless of issue really, happy customer first.

          But, all I do is sell my old games as an individual (big gamer, buy heaps), always out of pocket anyway, I state that in my listing, I make it clear of version, condition, no returns unless damaged and to carefully understand what you are buying.

          From this experience though, I need to make another point on my listings:

          • Please consider the VERSION you are buying. UK PAL may be multilingual (this means it covers English as well as other languages). CAREFULLY consider this factor first before bidding!
        • netsurfer on 10/04/2018 - 14:43
          +1

          @RocketSwitch: Just saw your response. Yeah… that's a good idea.

          When an item has an attractive price, it can attract a very wide range of audiences / potential buyers. Some can have really unexpected interpretation of the actual item. I've also added way more description on all my DD-WRT / customer firmware routers ever since that incident.

          I would mention back cover has English/German as well (and if a photo of the back cover is provided, I would put refer to picture #n). The margin is so low already, any case raised is a waste of your time.

        • RocketSwitch on 10/04/2018 - 15:02

          @netsurfer: Thanks for that, I will include that as well.

  • rodinthink on 09/04/2018 - 00:03
    +1

    Tell him/her , they way you scam isnt convincing enough , try better next time.
    JK. Perhaps ask the package pictures and the rip-off mark , send it to AUSpost

  • eggles01 on 09/04/2018 - 01:02

    I would be looking at who delivered it and why it was left on the doorstep,it should have been taken to the nearest P.O and a notice should have been left in your letterbox telling you at what PO it was left at,did you sell it with free post,unless the Ebay rules&regulations have changed it is up to the buyer to register or insure the item or take the chance of being ripped off or the parcel being tampered and the item being removed from the package,I would get up to the post office as quick as possible and take a copy of the email the buyer sent you and let them answer the questions,the P.O used to have up to $50 for lost items and maybe this may fit somewhere in that claim

    • laser on 09/04/2018 - 14:08

      Ebay no longer allows you to charge insurance as a postage option since around a year ago. Any insurance charged should be included in the postage calculator.

  • Lucky13 on 09/04/2018 - 01:05

    I gave up selling on Ebay because (sigh) the buyer makes up whatever they like if they're not happy with your item eg. put a massive mark on it and say it was there when they got it, etc, etc, and ask for return/refund. Used to enjoy selling stuff on Ebay, but then it seems buyers discovered how they could do over sellers and then it wasn't so much fun anymore.

  • jnathanc on 09/04/2018 - 01:26
    +1

    I always take a photo of contents inside the bubble envelopes or boxes along with the destination address before sending it off. There's just too much things going on in the world you have to cover your own backside.

  • wtigers on 09/04/2018 - 03:40
    +1

    Send him fart in a can

  • Pikaloo on 09/04/2018 - 07:37
    +1

    Release his information, the only reason they get away with this is because you can't leave negative feedback. Therefore releasing his information is the only way. Moreover AusPost or whoever you shipped the item with would conduct an investigation from here (you should contact them) and get the weight of the actual lego set via amazon so eBay is able to compare. If the weight is obviously less you're out of luck but if it's over/the same then you're good. But in most cases eBay will offer a refund to both parties.

  • Davo723 on 09/04/2018 - 08:53
    +1

    Be honest, Did you send him an empty box? :P

    • whooah1979 on 09/04/2018 - 09:13
      +1

      There is three versions to every Ebay dispute. The buyer’s , the seller’s and the truth which is somewhere in the middle.

  • Gina Rinehart on 09/04/2018 - 09:03

    I only sell stuff every now and then. Had an experience with a seller claiming a watch ($50) wasn't ticking.. It was brand new. They said they had the battery changed at a watch shop and they had told them it was "dead".

    Ebay sided with me somehow, saying returns were not applicable for that item.

    Then again, that was a faulty item claim, not item not as described

  • Mattycee on 09/04/2018 - 09:16
    +1

    I have stopped accepting Paypal as a payment at all now for similar reasons. You have no recourse most of the time, so I just steer well clear now.

    I use Gumtree now and apart from the low-ballers I have had a pretty good run (Touch wood) and its cash so no come back!

  • joeyy17 on 09/04/2018 - 09:30

    This happened to me once too. I sent a New NES classic mini to a guys shop, then a few days later it says delivered on tracking. He tells me he didnt recieve the item and files a dispute against me on Ebay and Paypal. I upload the sticker that you place on the box for Aus Post, onto the dispute page for ebay. I believe that ebay had my back on this one (luckily, could have had to refund money that i would have been in the negatives), so once i won the dispute, the Paypal one cleared also.

    These people are just out there to try and get you to feel bad about yourself and win money over you. Keep up the fight my dude!

  • Turd on 09/04/2018 - 09:52

    How did it go OP?

    What Lego set was it?

    • Tafe on 09/04/2018 - 11:19

      It was a promotional minifigure set. Very well packed and taped.

      No rattling parts like a traditional set as each figure has it's own individual section in a blister pack

  • Munki on 09/04/2018 - 10:02

    Man…I just sold a $500 lens to someone in WA. He has 500+ positive feedback with 0 negative feedback though, so I'm guessing he isn't likely going to be a scammer, but damn it does make you a little nervous.

    • Lionmaru-G on 09/04/2018 - 11:48
      +6

      eBay protects scammers! As a seller you cant even leave negative to buyers! so 0 negative does not reflect true indication of the buyers on ebay anymore!

  • Oz80085 on 09/04/2018 - 10:37
    +1

    What happened? I want to know the gripping conclusion to this tale!

    • Molebag on 09/04/2018 - 10:58
      +2

      He read this post on ozbargain and knows the OP hasn't got anything hard to prove he sent anything. So the buyer is going to stand his ground and start building his lego set whilst waiting for the money to arrive from PayPal.

      I dunno why you'd make a public post like this before resolution - at least without changing the story somewhat.

      • Tafe on 09/04/2018 - 11:17

        Because if you change the story, it's hard to discuss it in all it's glory… I know it's a small world, but the chance of the buyer seeing this slim enough for me to risk it.

        I'll update after Apr 11 after eBay's resolution 'deadline'.

  • Lionmaru-G on 09/04/2018 - 11:47

    Screw eBay. Ive heard of this scam very often these days. Buyer claim they receive a box of blank papers instead of goods purchased etc.

    Nowadays you'll need to film yourself packing stuff up in the post office and the whole process of post shop staff weight it (Close up shot of the weight) and then sealing the parcel with the actual goods inside. Another close up shot of the tracking number on the receipt. Whole clip without any editing and keep it for safe record so that just in case any f(*#@$ wants to pull out item not as described card.

    Another crappy thing is that ebay dont allow buyers to put -ve feedback to scammers anymore. So that simply means the option of not allowing bidder/buyer with 2 negatives from purchasing from you is not viable anymore.

    • DiscoJango on 09/04/2018 - 14:06

      Dont forget the roughly total 20% sale commission you end up paying to ebay and paypal which makes it even less worth your while

      • Levathian on 10/04/2018 - 15:15

        TELL ME ABOUT IT! eBay give me a 'discount' on postage if I use their systems… And then take it back again in final value fees on postage!

        • DiscoJango on 10/04/2018 - 20:13
          +1

          nothing in life is free, nor truly discounted. the business will simply make up the cost elsewhere. people forget these business only exist for one reason: to make a profit, not to give you a fair deal or good customer service. thats what marketing departments are there to make you think though.

  • Wreckin Ball on 09/04/2018 - 13:29
    +5

    Sorry to hear that someone has tried this on you.
    It is my biggest stress when selling on eBay - that the parcel will arrive and in a good condition.
    And I know what I will talk about below is too late to help you now, but maybe something to think about if you gather the courage to sell on eBay again.
    I also tend to be a bit of a "Harry Have A Chat" (I would if you can tell from this post) and usually get into conversations with the buyers throughout the posting and delivery process.

    Not only have I heard of parcels going missing (a quite common one which can be prevented by always using tracking), I have heard of this sort of thing happening before as well as claims of incorrect packaging causing breaks and someone even claimed they were overcharged for postage.
    Fortunately, I have not had a problem like these so far, not that I have sold many things - fingers crossed.
    The only problem I had was selling some RAM and one stick was found to have a fault when the buyer tested it. I sent a copy of the purchase receipt and he was able to get the set of RAM replaced by the manufacturer and they upgraded the replacement RAM for free, so he was very happy in the end.
    As a consequence of all these postage disputes, I have come up with a plan to help me in case of a disgruntled buyer.

    So I take photos of each step of the packing process (example - before, during and after I have wrapped an item in bubble wrap).
    These photos show how carefully I pack everything and what is being packed.
    I generally put the package weight in the eBay sale description (so the buyer knows what to expect) and also take a photo of the finished package on a set of scales to confirm the weight and the buyer's address (so they know if I addressed it correctly) plus a photo of the post office receipt.
    All these get sent to the buyer after I post the item.

    eBay base their decision on a number of factors, the more evidence you can present to contradict the buyer, the better it is for you.

    Given what you are being put through, I may even start taking video of the packing process (not sent to the buyer, just for my own piece of mind) as well as the photos.

    Since you have been bitten once, maybe if you sell anything else on eBay, something like what I wrote above could help reduce the stress with a situation like you have now.

    One more thing, what are your seller reviews like and what feedback score do you have? If you have a very satisfied buyer history, it may help.

    In the end, even if a decision is made against you, smile when you realise you were lucky it was only $50 and not something like $500. I am not saying $50 is insignificant (especially as I am a financially challenged disabled pensioner), just be thankful it was not much more expensive (leaving a much bigger hole in your wallet).
    Sorry, after being a nurse for many years, I tend to be an eternal optimist with a good sense of humour who always tries to find something good or funny even in a bad disaster.

    Good luck with this problem.

  • hasher22 on 09/04/2018 - 13:56
    +2

    I am sorry to hear. I am so anal about selling online.

    I sold a funko pop yesterday for $40, 10 dollars was fees (postage and paypal) BUT……. I recorded myself packing it up, putting the label on it. I also recorded the woman in the post office putting the sticker on it to send it away. Yes I know recording is drastic and shouldn't be an option, but that's what I gotta do to protect myself as a sole seller.

    I have approx 10 videos in my computer if buyer tries to scam me.

    AINT NOBODY GONNA SCAM ME TODAY.

    But in all honestly, yes paypal has seller protection but I hopefully this works out in your favour.

    • ChatCPT on 09/04/2018 - 15:25

      extreme. is this what we've come to. guess i better stick to gumtree meet and sell but that has its own potential issues too. sigh

    • Levathian on 10/04/2018 - 15:20

      Eh. I have flogged off 7 of 10 monopoly sets I got from work on ebay, I didn't take any photos or anything apart from doing the postage through ebay

  • laser on 09/04/2018 - 13:58

    Too late for the OP, but I always do boxing videos for this very reason, and finally take a photo of the parcel in its packaging on the weighing scale in the LPO. Most of the time its unnecessary, however the one time it came in handy was a $2000 parcel to the US. Its not that hard to do nowadays with everyone having a smartphone.

    • Lionmaru-G on 09/04/2018 - 17:04
      +2

      You are doing it wrong. You need to do the boxing video at the post shop just in case the scammer say that you have switched the box before the post trip!!
      Parcel require to be sealed in front of the post shop staff is the best way to protect yourself

  • frozenkuku on 09/04/2018 - 16:20

    I hate to thunk this way but if paypal continues to screw us seller even ebay concludes in our favour when tracking number is provided, the only final option is to stop accepting paypal, and bank deposit is the only option allowed. I have experienced 3-4 scammer buyers this 6 months too.

  • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2018 - 16:54

    My thoughts are with you, as I sell Antminers on Ebay and also buy a lot on Ebay.
    I have received some terrible goods, and often feel guilty raising so many Paypal disputes (I have won them all, never once has a seller even responded to a PayPal claim), so I tend to think Ebay is full of scam sellers and why disputes are geared towards the buyers.

    I like many of the ideas here, and will take extra steps. I always insist on delivery, and pay for Insurance (includes Signature) and ensure the receipt captures the Weight. I may start "Boxing" videos, but unless they are taken at the post office and record until sent they don't prove a lot.

    I have never had a buyer complain, but know if will happen. I have heard so many bad stories from scam buyers that I try and sell more via the WebStore. However Ebay gets good publicity and high-exposure for items. (Only list when free or $1 final value fees).

    1 Tip I hear for disputes is always quickly respond to Ebay \ Paypal and the Buyer.

    • Lionmaru-G on 09/04/2018 - 17:09

      If you sell from webstore are you accepting Paypal? It's the same thing. Buyer can simply raise dispute via Paypal. Paypal and Ebay are the same so yes im afraid boxing video at the post office is the way to go.

      • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2018 - 18:00

        Yes, PayPal is accepted via the WebStore however the Buyer Protection policies and review procedure are not the same as when selling through Ebay.
        As an example when I last checked, no protection for buyers \ sellers via Gumtree.

        As you pointed out, this issue is not limited to Ebay or even Paypal. Many sellers \ stores have similar or worse problems with Credit Card Charge Backs.

        I offer discounts for payments via Crypto Payments (via Coinbase commerc)e. For obvious reasons only the regulars use this method. First timers love Paypal or Credit Cards.

  • cnrmlj on 09/04/2018 - 16:59

    I'd call his bluff and ask why he opened the box if there was no sound when it was shaken.

    Lego comes in pieces and makes a sound when shaken.

    Then again, maybe its just me.

    I used to love lego when i was a kid.

    • [Deactivated] on 11/04/2018 - 15:12
      +2

      within 3 seconds of reading your message, I though "The box felt light, I immediately opened it to see why this was the case"

      Trying to trick the buyer into admitting they are doing something dodgy is a losing strategy in these cases. They are going to be triple checking anything when they realise you are troubleshooting them on how to catch them out. That's why I wouldn't try to bluff a buyer either, because if you get caught out in your bluff, you are going to immediately lose the dispute with ebay as you weren't entirely honest in your communications.

  • cdaddy on 09/04/2018 - 17:15

    Take photos and video when you pack and send. Easy.

  • Captain Obvious on 09/04/2018 - 17:16
    -3

    As a suggestion, include with your auctions (or at any time before the transaction is completed) a disclaimer whereby you accept no liability for anything happening to the package after it has left your hands. That way if the package is tampered with on the way, or doesn't arrive, the buyer has already accepted that you have no liability.

    • cloudie9 on 09/04/2018 - 18:08

      Doesn’t rhyme well with eBay I’m afraid

    • Cyphar on 09/04/2018 - 21:01
      +4

      Except disclaimers do not have a legal standing as has been proven by the ACCC time and time again. Your rights as a consumer trumps any store-set clause

      • Captain Obvious on 09/04/2018 - 22:04
        -2

        That's completely wrong. The ACL acknowledges 'as is' sales - so normally you can't restrict a consumers rights to return/replacement. However if a seller sells an item as-is, which is normally with a defect, and says there are no returns then you can't return it. Disclaimers are used all the time.

        • Cyphar on 10/04/2018 - 02:04
          +3

          You're arguing two different things. "As Is" does not cover you in the event of deception. If you are selling boxes of Lego and I buy a box and discover it's a box of bottle caps, you cannot hide behind it. As Is is the offer of a product without acknowledging it's condition. The customer is still protected against fraudulent or deceiving sales

        • Captain Obvious on 10/04/2018 - 12:01
          -3

          @Cyphar: they're not different things. You're right in that the customer is protected against fraud etc - but if you can prove the box was full of lego when you sent it, and it arrives full of bottlecaps, your disclaimer means you're not responsible for what has happened in transit.

    • Some Human on 10/04/2018 - 00:15
      +2

      disclaimers like that automatically make me choose another seller

  • Schezwon on 09/04/2018 - 18:25

    Paypal always side with the buyer! Ive sold an item on eBay, sent it out, clearly saying i will not be responsible if you don't buy shipping insurance once it's been shipped out… after 3 weeks,i get an email from PayPal saying I've sold a faulty item.
    Even the seller said it stopped working after 18days, not my problem tbh,it was working pwrfectly fine.

    Anyways I'm done selling stuff on eBay.

    • Save 50 Cent on 10/04/2018 - 15:52
      +3

      If it was a brand new item, I’d expect a refund too if it stops working after 18 days. And it is your problem unless you sold a used item.
      Also, buyers do not have to buy shipping insurance. That is your choice. If it doesn’t get delivered or gets damaged, it is your issue since you chose the courier and the service.
      Recipients cannot even inquire or lodge a complaint for a lost/damaged parcel. The sender (seller) is the only one entering a contrac with the courier.

      • Schezwon on 10/04/2018 - 20:06
        -2

        In that case.. All sellers have to compensate for idiots like you. So one sided.

  • CocaKoala on 09/04/2018 - 18:54
    +1

    A buyer cannot lodge a dispute with both ebay and paypal. These systems are integrated, and if the buyer tried to lodge a dispute, paypal's system would reject it citing the already open ebay case.

    • Geoff897 on 09/04/2018 - 23:31

      Maybe not at the same time but I had ebay rule in the my/sellers favour but paypal to the buyers.

      But I got PayPal to review the outcome and they changed the outcome

  • Tiggrrrrr on 09/04/2018 - 19:39
    -6

    Luckily I haven't been in your situation, but I have been on the reverse.

    On no less than three occasions I have lost items bought on ebay due to the fact that the seller will not post to PO Boxes.
    I provided my home address with the clear instruction that parcels are NOT to be left on my doorstep under any circumstances, since I live on a main road where pedestrians can walk past and just pick them up. (In fact i have also lost a bicycle and patio furniture that way.) This was added as a note to seller, and also followed up in a separate email each time prior to the parcels being sent.

    Anyway, sure enough they send the items via courier, the courier doesn't bother to get a signature and just leaves it on the door step. I get a message while at work that a parcel has been delivered and signed for, get home a few hours later (usually after 7) and find a slip saying my parcel has been left on my doorstep quoting "authority to leave".

    Note, that of the three occasions, the repeat delivery was exactly the same. Item left out the front of the house, but luckily I was actually home at the time and came outside to see what the noise was (and no they had not knocked on the door or called the mobile number provided).

    Ebay/Paypal was good each time, but an annoying process especially when I had paid for registered delivery, and for two of the items they were the last items in stock.

    That aside my favourite was when I won an item on ebay for about 1/20th of the actual product worth, so the seller messaged me and told me that their child had broken the item within 1 hour of the sale ending. I was tempted to ask them to send the pieces and I would glue it back together..

  • Cyphar on 09/04/2018 - 21:00

    the dude's gotta be pretty brave to lie in a stat dec right?

    Stat Decs aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Easy to lie. My staff use them to pull a sickie and I can't prove it wrong.

    Your best leg to stand in here is a receipt when you mailed the box with the weight included.

    • OzBrogains on 09/04/2018 - 21:06

      It depends on what is written on the stat dec.

      "I'm sick" = a huge grey area. They can go about their day and you could bump into them and you can't prove they're lying. They could have a headache and what they wrote on the stat dec is irrefutable.
      "I broke my left leg and it's in a cast" = black and white. They can go about their day and you could bump into them and you can prove they're lying.

      • eggboi on 12/04/2018 - 09:51

        Even then, they could be on the way home from the doctor’s after having the cast removed haha

  • justwii on 09/04/2018 - 21:50

    I have been waiting this to happen on my ebay sales but no luck so far, transactions had been smooth. I use gopro to record the whole process, showing contents, packing, to the point handing the parcel to courier over the counter for each of my ebay sales, ready to say IN YOUR FACE any moment scammers!

  • mixology on 09/04/2018 - 21:51

    One other argument is around the registered post thing when they sign for deliver (which is required when you send anything you sold on eBay). There is a disclaimer that they have check the contents of the packages before receiving it (which no one does anyways).

    • aragornelessar on 10/04/2018 - 17:01

      Never understood that - what mailman is going to wait for you to open the package? And what happens if you dont get what you ordered in there? Sticky tape it back up and ask him to take it back?

    • spaceflight on 10/04/2018 - 21:54

      eBay require proof of signature to confirm delivery for items with a total cost of $750 or more.

  • pitufon on 09/04/2018 - 22:03

    Buyer sounds dodgy. Lodged a complaint straight away rather than contacting you to get to the bottom of it? What's his/her buying history like?

    • Tafe on 10/04/2018 - 18:29

      2 year old account… ~5 <$50 purchases in last 6 months with normal looking feedback

  • lainey13 on 09/04/2018 - 22:13
    +1

    Just leaving a comment so I can keep an eye out for updates. Popcorn worthy. Of course you wouldn't release details until after that deadline… but after? Fair game maybe. Pretty silly to scam someone if the victim has your address.

  • murkywater on 09/04/2018 - 22:33
    +1

    I've always been afraid of this when selling items on eBay. I normally take a video of myself packing the item to protect myself. It's a pain tho!

  • Laziofogna on 09/04/2018 - 23:44
    +4

    It must be Dr Boom on the other side.

  • DingoBilly on 10/04/2018 - 08:53
    +1

    Given the cost of the item, I'd try the bare minimum for getting it back (i.e., disputing it/asking for proof from buyer saying something like you have proof you sent it), but not going any further.

    Ultimately, it's $50. Having been scammed for $400 myself from eBay/Paypal scummy shit, it's extremely painful but not end of world. Just need to always have it in mind that you may be screwed over from any sale that's not cash in hand.

  • wog_ta on 10/04/2018 - 09:01
    +1

    What's the chance the Kid sees this ozbargain post, considering his age and lack of funds he may be a member.

  • spoonmugen on 10/04/2018 - 10:55

    following because I wanna know the outcome lol

  • Cheeper on 10/04/2018 - 10:58

    As most people are not trustworthy (fact) when I sell something that I have to send I take many photographs showing the whole packaging process because you never know when the next con artist will try to get you.
    People do send empty packages also… :-(
    Ebay retailers must have plenty of these complaints.
    Good luck.

    • gimme on 10/04/2018 - 11:18
      +3

      aaaah the proverbial use of 'FACT' on the internet which almost always means 'I just made up this fact' lol. If the majority of people were not trustworthy ebay wouldn't exist and more importantly society wouldn't function. It's the exact opposite of what you're saying. There's always a minority that are scum and spoil it for everyone else. By and large society is actually trustworthy.

      • Tafe on 10/04/2018 - 18:31

        Been selling off and on since 2003, so I'm thankful nothing like this has happened before.

        • Cheeper on 11/04/2018 - 13:14

          It does and often. As much at there are some honest people there is dishonest ones that are always looking for a way to screw the system (and you).

      • Cheeper on 11/04/2018 - 13:11

        Run a business and employ staff and you will soon learn the facts.

  • eggboi on 10/04/2018 - 16:05

    If paypal seller protection craps out, you can always file a dispute with the FOS (financial ombudsman service). They can’t just take your money because they took some scammer’s word over yours.

    Most likely case if you go through FOS is paypal cops the loss and refunds the seller without taking any money off you.

    • DiscoJango on 10/04/2018 - 20:14

      whose got time to deal with all that. better to avoid the system in the first place.

    • Japius on 10/04/2018 - 21:28
      +1

      I did that a couple of times, they eventually send you a message saying there are refunding you out of goodwill. Just takes some effort but you get your money eventually

  • Tafe on 10/04/2018 - 21:36
    +7

    Oh man this just gets better and better… Will update when I have time to write it up properly!

    • railspider on 10/04/2018 - 21:44
      +13

      Don't leave us hanging OP, this is the drama I come to OzBargain for

      • htc on 11/04/2018 - 06:53
        +1

        I check this thread everyday to see what happens next. This can be better than TV drama, where the outcome is not predictable and you need to watch everyday to see the ending.

    • n1 on 10/04/2018 - 22:18
      +3

      Update us when? Tonight? I need to know if I should stay up and wait for this juicy goss.

    • spaceflight on 10/04/2018 - 22:22

      Have your sent then a link to this?
      https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/371733

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