eBay Buyer Has Accused Me of Sending Him an Empty Box - Am I Stuffed?

Tafe on 07/04/2018 - 16:04
Last edited 07/04/2018 - 16:47 by 1 other user

OK, so I see there are heaps of threads about buyer/seller disputes on eBay, but I want to play too.

I sold a LEGO set on eBay last week. Brand new and factory sealed - in fact, it's one of those ones with a clear front panel where you can see the contents.

Not super high value, $60, and I accepted his offer of $50.

I sent it the next day via courier and it arrives about 48 hours later.

All tracking etc are in good order and listed in eBay/PayPal

Yesterday, I get a VERY theatrical "return request notification" with the text - roughly;

"I am outraged! I arrive home and I see this item at my doorstep and I get all excited, rip open the package and what do I get? Nothing. Absolutely nothing
except for an empty, stupid box! You decided to take out all of the parts, keep them yourself and send me this garbage. This is disgusting! I am lodging
this complaint in my frustration that how could you even think about doing this to someone. What, was it because I was shopping around and you gave me a
$10 discount, so you took revenge and took out the parts? I have included photos as proof of what you have done. I expect a full refund immediately and for
you to never do this again to anyone."

Accompanying the text are three staged photos of an empty box, surrounded by torn packaging.

Googling reveals that there are plenty of seller whinging about eBay/PayPal tending to favour buyers over sellers, and that sellers seem to cop it with scammy buyers. Are they right?

I haven't replied to the buyer at all.

BUT, I message eBay customer service chat and they seem really helpful. They say that they will look into this blokes account, and request from him a statutory declaration before proceeding.

I'm pretty happy with this - the dude's gotta be pretty brave to lie in a stat dec right?

I feel like eBay kind of have my back on this one, but now I'm concerned about PayPal - my understanding is that you can lodge a dispute with both eBay AND PayPal separately? And either can be in your favour or against?

I was thinking that I get on the front foot and contact PayPal like I did with eBay, but I don't want to open up a dispute (?) that I might lose/regret.

What would you do?

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Comments

        • Tafe on 08/04/2018 - 12:49
          +15

          You are trying to compare countering one untruth with another, to drawing a weapon on and threatening a petty thief. There is almost zero equivalence here I'm afraid.

          I might just have to live with the fact that you don't trust me as an eBay seller anymore!

        • RohBoat on 08/04/2018 - 21:59
          +10

          @Aneurism:
          Username checks out.

        • ireadtermsofuse on 08/04/2018 - 23:40
          +5

          @Aneurism: no need to get an aneurism man

        • netsurfer on 09/04/2018 - 00:45
          +1

          @Tafe: Read my comment further down. I think the April 11th deadline is for you to choose one of the options eBay presented you.

          While Aneurism might be too harsh, he does have some valid points. It is possible to think of other reasons the buyer ended up receiving an empty box despite you sent the item. It was wrong for the buyer to assume you sent him an empty box. However, by sending that message, you added more work to yourself, disclosed too much information, made some statements which may not be true (the police will get involved for $50? you will go to small claim tribunal for $50?), and in black and white indicated you will accept return from the buyer.

          Anyway, read my comment below. If the case is currently waiting for you to respond, officially, the buyer cannot return the item yet. He is requesting it, and now you've indicated (in your message) that you will allow it. But, based on what I am reading, you will probably wait till April 11 for eBay to get involved. If that's the case, the fact is, officially, you are not allowing the return.

        • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2018 - 18:02

          @Tafe:

          You know you have his phone number, you can give him a call about it.

          It should be under his shipping information and usually it verified number as well.

        • Aneurism on 09/04/2018 - 20:17
          -2

          @ireadtermsofuse:

          Eh ? What is an aneurism ?

        • deepblonde on 14/04/2018 - 13:03

          @Aneurism: Google or a dictionary is your friend

        • Aneurism on 14/04/2018 - 13:22

          @deepblonde:
          Just like the OP you make a claim based on a false assumption. I can also use your username to premise an assumption and have to spell this else to you obviously must be a dumb blonde.

          Also I looked up 'deepblonde' in the dictionary and it wasn't there..because obviously usernames need to be dictionary words right ?

    • foxmulder on 08/04/2018 - 12:10
      +2

      You give the email a lot of thought don't you? Nice email. To have item returned, for "seller mistake" issue, usually you will need to pay for shipment back, not sure then you have to spend another $8+ for an empty box :).

      Don't let the case close by itself, you will most likely get seller defect unless eBay customer service give you a written promised that they will remove it for you - use eBay chat - you will get a copy of the transcript via email. If they can't give you the promise, perhaps then best to refund before the due date, trust me, you will find peace after doing that :)

      • Tafe on 08/04/2018 - 12:36
        +1

        Just put together in an email the OzB hivemind… :)

    • whooah1979 on 08/04/2018 - 12:13

      https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/371150#comment-5820996
      That would have been good but no, it was a pre-paid weight.

      Op, you’ve already acknowledged that this item was shipped using a prepaid shipping method. Ap doesn’t record dead weight on mail articles unless it’s to issue the sender with an underpaid mail article notice. The buyer if a seasoned scammer will have noticed your bluff and report you to Ebay for this dishonesty.

      • Tafe on 08/04/2018 - 12:37

        The item was delivered by courier, not AP. I don't think it's a seasoned scammer, I'm leaning towards dumb kid trying his luck.

    • Ughhh on 08/04/2018 - 12:41

      A few typos there.

    • netsurfer on 08/04/2018 - 22:11
      +3

      OP, sending the message only makes you feel better for a short while. It doesn't help the situation.

      The April 11th deadline - from what I read so far, that appears to be the deadline eBay set for you. If the buyer initiated a return request, you (the seller) need to decide whether you are allowing/accepting it. If you elected to do nothing, despite contacting eBay support, their system may show the seller has elected to do nothing formally.

      Now, if you chose the option to accept return, a new problem will come in. feeBay expect you to provide a return label to the buyer. Some nice buyers are willing to pay for the return postage (if you are nice to them throughout the dispute / return process). You could ask the buyer to use PayPal return option, but on the record, unless you use (and pay) for a return label postage option provided by eBay OR provide proof (to eBay) that you sent a return label to the buyer, the system will show that the you did not provide one. I really doubt this particular buyer would fork out the return postage.

      The biggest issue with eBay support (and to a lesser extent, PayPal support but still pretty bad) is they don't tell you the official process in full detail. They often try to calm you down and make you feel better. You might be lucky and get a support person who really knows and actually tells you the details / bad news.

      If, currently, in eBay, you are seeing multiple options waiting for you to pick one. You need to contact eBay and find out what each option means exactly. If you elect to ignore and let eBay step in later, it's best to find out whether there will be any penalty. The transcripts you have with support won't save you if the official system is really dumb and assumes you've done nothing officially.

      Don't underestimate the buyer. He has the upper hand unless your courier company really vouch for you AND eBay accept that. The reason the buyer opted for return request is that he is counting on you not willing to fork out the return postage to simply receive an empty box back. If I were the buyer, I can think of an easy argument to counter against the weight values recorded (your excuse that you sent the item correctly). The buyer also has a last resort option (and if he elected to do so, it will be a pain for you).

      The burden of proof is not on him, but on you. All he needs to do is a statutory declaration. You, on the other hand, have a bigger mess. I do hope eBay rule in your favor, but my experience so far is that eBay and PayPal tend to rule in favor of the buyer. To feeBay, we are talking about $5. If you were them, what would you rather do? In any case, you will need to invest a significant amount of time on this.

    • captaincabinets on 09/04/2018 - 00:45
      +2

      'eBay will require you to provide them with a signed statutory declaration stating that you received an empty boy.'

      Lol.

    • John on 09/04/2018 - 09:33

      Nice.. Can I hire you as my email advisor for when I need to send some sensitive issues email?

    • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2018 - 14:00
      +1

      It is a well written response. Don't let it get to you if it goes belly up. It is not a flawless response.

      You included bluffs. Unless you're prepared to counter if the buyer calls your bluff, that's a major loose end.

      You've given a dateline to respond… Or not. No ultimatum and a long timeline. Two nights to sleep on it.

      You revealed your only avenue to proove your shipment was legitimate, ie. Shipping weights.

      So, you have a few possible outcomes.

      1. No response - you don't get closure and you've gotten nowhere.

      2. Calls your bluff - now you look silly and you're going to feel worse for it.

      3. They continue to pursue their refund through PayPal or chargeback - you may be asked for your photographic evidence (which we established you do not have).

      4. If he ships the contents back to you but included more weight, ie more cardboard to equal the parts he removed, your entire argument with shipping weight benefits the scammer instead.

      5. He buys it and messages you to close the case. We all know the likelihood of that.

    • trapper on 11/04/2018 - 12:00

      If it's a kid try get hold of the parents. This could be sorted out very quickly.

  • oSammy21 on 08/04/2018 - 11:57

    Edit: your update comment was pretty much everything I was just going to advise

  • [Deactivated] on 08/04/2018 - 12:02

    Strange he would scam for a $50 lego set though and not a $500 PS4 Pro…

    • moo on 08/04/2018 - 12:14

      Assumptions assumptions assumptions. Is a scam more believable when it is a $500 vs a $50 product? That’s probably what they would like you to believe. You have the potential to be scammed following that logic. Heh.

      • Aneurism on 08/04/2018 - 16:06
        -2

        You are assuming that the OP didn't send an empty box and create this thread as subterfuge. (If the OP kept evidence that he actually packed it then he would not be in this situation).

        There is no proof from the OP, nor does he have any proof that the package was not tampered with before reaching the buyer. We are only hearing one side of the story without any substantiated proof.. If you follow your line of logic, then this line needs to also be considered.

  • f38r1 on 08/04/2018 - 13:00
    +1

    I'm sorry to hear that, but from my experience, ebay staff just going to make you happy, but at the end they still going to refund the buyer and you'd end up with nothing. Just move on.

    *at least you got all his details , and let karma make his phone number end up listed on some weird websites

  • MishyMoo on 08/04/2018 - 13:11

    The box was waiting for the buyer at his door. Is it possible that someone (else, eg a passerby) took/stole the product out of the box? The next question would be why wouldn't they take the box also, however, it's feasible, yes?

    • Aneurism on 08/04/2018 - 13:26

      Last week I had a box left at my door misdelivered. In my case, I went a few streets down and handed it to the person to their face..

      If I was a dodgy basterd, I could have easily opened up the package..taken the contents, repackaged it and left it outside the real owners door and no one would have realized.

      This is why I don't condone the OP's actions in assuming that the buyer is a scammer and threatening the buyer with no proof or concern that the buyer might actually be innocent.

      • Tafe on 08/04/2018 - 13:49
        +5

        In what universe does a thief risk resealing an opened package and then re-delivering to the intended recipient.. for.. fun?

        • Tafe on 08/04/2018 - 14:03
          +3

          I could not be rolling my eyes any harder. Potentially.

        • Aneurism on 08/04/2018 - 14:15
          -8

          @Tafe:

          Also it would be a pretty good thief if no one believes that this can occur, because that increases their chances of getting away with it.

          Also it doesn't matter if you potentially eye roll or not. This does not change the fact that you lied in your email. If you are capable of doing that then you are also capable of sending out an empty package and creating a forum thread lying about that too. (potentially). After all you "want to play too."

          But one should not jump to conclusions when one does not have evidence .. right ?

        • Yarra Warrior on 08/04/2018 - 16:32
          +3

          @Aneurism:

          Regarding this stance, Sorry OP, I have no relation with anyone in this thread. Just my two cents.
          In my opinion, I understand your situation but everyone deserves a right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law.
          In this case, unless provided you have a valid evidence, this might be a different story.

          Probably without needing to threat the buyer would be a good idea to start with. The fact that you have partially considered the Buyer as a scam, that might sound a bit harsh. But if the Buyer has actually received an empty box that he might go back and chase you relentlessly in order to pursue the truth. Perhaps try to use a positive approach to the Buyer to learn more and it probably doesn't harm you.

          I believe eBay has their own way to resolve this case in fairly manner.
          You just need to provide the fact that the good is shipped in a good package and follow up the case and so on.
          Hopefully you would get a win-win solution for this case.
          Good luck, mate.

        • Tafe on 08/04/2018 - 17:32
          +8

          @Yarra Warrior:

          I see your point to an extent, but it's hard to give the buyer the benefit of the doubt when he clearly went on the attack in the first instance.

          I didn't get a message asking me if there was a chance I'd made a mistake, or if there was a chance his package had been tampered with. I was told I had initiated a 'disgusting' act of 'revenge' on him for accepting his $10-lower offer, which is frankly, bizarre.

          I feel like when someone is coming at you like that, you're better to either fold - or go all in.

        • smartazz104 on 09/04/2018 - 10:38
          +5

          @Aneurism: please don’t post about professionalism as if you have any idea what that is.

        • Aneurism on 09/04/2018 - 19:32
          -1

          @smartazz104:
          please don't post as if you have any idea about what I do or do not know.

        • smartazz104 on 09/04/2018 - 20:37
          +2

          @Aneurism: your attitude makes it plainly obvious as to the extent of your knowledge.

        • Aneurism on 09/04/2018 - 20:39

          @smartazz104:

          Ibid.

        • netsurfer on 10/04/2018 - 00:22
          +2

          @Tafe: OP, it is normal for a buyer to send angry message(s) to the seller. False accusations from a buyer are common too. A seller, especially if you have some experience, would try to find out as much as possible and assure the buyer you have every intention to resolve the issue. You cannot be certain everything was perfect while the item was in transit.

          Even when falsely accused, unless you have 100% proof that the buyer is definitely scamming you, you still try your best to figure out what went wrong exactly. It does not hurt to show your buyer that you are calm and professional.

          I have been situations where a full refund must be provided even though they were not my fault at all. In those case, I still tried my best and offered my best service. All sorts of unexpected things can happen when selling. I've lost way more than $50 so far.

          Your reputation is worth more than $50. You've decided not to give the buyer any benefit of doubt and you have a good chance to win the case. Even so, try your best to win the case in a clean, professional manner with integrity.

        • Tafe on 11/04/2018 - 12:27

          @netsurfer: I think you're right, I'm too competitive sometimes :'(

        • deepblonde on 14/04/2018 - 13:10

          @Aneurism: lying is not always considered wrong. As an example, police would not draw there weapon as a bluff, but It is within police protocol to lie to suspects and they and they do, in order to get to the truth or garner a confession - 'we have surveillance video or DNA evidence ' - 'ok I admit it, I did it.."

        • Aneurism on 14/04/2018 - 13:42

          @deepblonde:

          Businesses have a code of conduct that they mus adhere to which also covers misleading and deceptive behaviors. Otherwise MSY wouldn't keep getting plugged with this https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/10/msy-fined-750000-for-misl…

          Sorry to have to tell you this, but the OP probably isn't protected under any of the Australian Police Acts as the chances of them being a police officer is quite low. But they would need to tell you if they are or not as I won't make that assumption.

      • anthonyqld on 08/04/2018 - 18:51
        +2

        The tone of the email is proof the buyer is scammer. People ripped-off don't write a complaint like that. That's what scammers do.

        • Aneurism on 08/04/2018 - 20:04
          -2

          That doesn't hold up as proof. It is just an assertion of your belief. It does look suspicious but it is by no means a hard fact.

        • ReSublimity on 09/04/2018 - 17:28

          @Aneurism: It sounds like you haven't dealt with handling a store. If the OP was selling a lot of products since 2003, I'm pretty sure he's gone through all the different types of customers. You can pretty much tell based on experience what type of people are scamming or not.

          Sure, there might be an exception but OP has stated he's willing to just go all in. What has he got to lose if he's already thinking he lost the $50? If the buyer is genuine, he would call the bluff for sure and contact ebay to get everything sorted. If he isn't then he might just let go of it. There's also the time that OP would waste playing games with the potential scammer. He's willing to cut the crap and as he stated "fold or go all in". If they bite back, then meh he loses the $50. If the potential scammer gets scared, then yay $50.

          It sucks wasting time on a customer which you assume is a scammer, playing their games etc. Sometimes you just gotta lay it down on them.

          I think the only thing i would have changed in the email is to state that it's a scam. If i was a scammer and saw that email minus the part telling him that OP's seen those scams, then i would still be like… shit man… it's not worth the trouble.

        • Aneurism on 09/04/2018 - 19:39
          -2

          @ReSublimity:

          It sounds as if you have never been poorly treated based on a false assumption before. I truly don't care what the OP does or does not do. I am merely stating that if he were running a business then he is making false or misleading representations in email to a client

        • netsurfer on 10/04/2018 - 00:46
          +1

          @ReSublimity: Like I mentioned earlier, it is normal for buyers to send angry messages to sellers. False accusations from buyers are very common. Normally, sellers try to gather as much details as quickly as possible (often, this means obtain as much info from buyers as possible). Sellers also need to clearly show they have every intention to solve the problems and will do the right things (otherwise buyers simply won't work with you). After all, when things gone pear shaped, buyers don't trust you anymore. Regaining at least some level of trust quickly is essential (unless you simply want to cancel the transaction, in that case, you need to arrange return postage).

          It's not just the number of items you've sold, it's whether you actually had any real experience with after sale service, handling customer complaints, and dealing with fraudulent transactions. Until you are absolutely certain that the buyer is scamming you, you, as a seller, should attempt to resolve every issue in a fair, professional manner. Even if the buyer is scamming you, you shouldn't threaten or demand certain things.

          The fact that OP came to OZB forum on this clearly shows he is not experienced enough. While Aneurism is being blunt, he is basically pointing out that a proper seller shouldn't be doing what OP has done. After sale service and complaint handling is the best way to tell whether a seller is truly good or not.

        • Tafe on 11/04/2018 - 12:31

          @netsurfer: I actually agree with everything you've said here.

          In my defence, I wouldn't really consider myself a "proper seller". I think if I endeavored to become one in the future, I'd definitely be factoring in your advice as part of a business 'strategy'.

      • oSammy21 on 09/04/2018 - 16:35
        +1

        Aneurism your comments are making me cringe.

        • Tiggrrrrr on 09/04/2018 - 19:04

          So is their spelling of aneurysm…

        • Aneurism on 09/04/2018 - 19:46
          -1

          @Tiggrrrrr:

          Says the hypocrite who cannot spell tiger. Apply some logic..

        • Aneurism on 09/04/2018 - 19:48
          -2

          @oSammy21
          Actually my comments don't make you do anything, otherwise you might be filling some self cavities.

        • Tiggrrrrr on 09/04/2018 - 19:51
          +4

          @Aneurism:
          Glad to see you understand humour.

          If you had read any of the Winnie the Pooh books (e.g. House on Pooh Corner) you would realise it was the phonetic spelling for "Tigger".

          I'd recommend the book, it's a great read.

          There is also an abridged and young children friendly versions available for you.

        • Aneurism on 09/04/2018 - 19:59
          -3

          @Tiggrrrrr:

          Yet it is mispelt.. and you haven't applied the logic yet.

          Here is an audio book I'd recommend you listen to
          https://www.audible.com.au/pd/Health-Personal-Development/Su…

        • Tiggrrrrr on 10/04/2018 - 19:17

          @Aneurism: I already read the pre-release (print version) of this book, but thanks for the suggestion. Mind you, despite the catchy title, it really isn't very good.

          In the subject of (profanity) though, there's an interesting fact that swearing helps to increase one's pain tolerance. So possibly it is better to give a (profanity), particularly in a situation where an increased pain threshold is required.

          If you are into audio books though, I'd highly recommend The Tattooist of Auschwitz. I normally wouldn't recommend an audio book, as I prefer the written word, but it can be a bit of a hard read at times. So I'd imagine with the audio book, it would almost force you to go on, and it is definitely worth it for this interesting if not harrowing story.

        • Tiggrrrrr on 10/04/2018 - 19:23

          @Aneurism:

          Logic. Ok, here goes. In the Disney adaptation of the Winnie the Pooh books, Tigger introduces himself, saying his name is Tigger, spelt "T-I-Double G-Rrrrrr".

          Hence the spelling (and avatar) I have adopted, which I felt lovers of the Disney adaptations might appreciate. Apologies if you have never seen the Disney movies, as I guess the reference would make little sense out of context.

          I'm sure you have an equally boring story of why you chose to use an "I" instead of a "Y", which I for one am waiting with bated breath to hear.

        • Aneurism on 11/04/2018 - 00:51
          -1

          @Tiggrrrrr:

          Type it backwards.

        • deepblonde on 14/04/2018 - 13:13
          +1

          @Aneurism: gee you are soo triggered…

        • Aneurism on 14/04/2018 - 13:43
          -1

          @deepblonde:
          Not really. I am merely typing in words. What makes me scratch my head is why people assume that a username has to be based on dictionary words or needs to match any form of reality.

          It is merely assumption and speculation. The username God could be based of the word dog, an abbreviation of Get On Daffy, or even 3 random keys that a cat wandered on..

          Like the OP..one assumes and infers without knowing the truth. All it does is show how restricted your mind is. Which is obviously because you are blonde. See what I did there ?

        • deepblonde on 22/04/2018 - 11:44

          @Aneurism:
          Then why be offended? I'm not…

        • Aneurism on 22/04/2018 - 11:55
          -1

          @deepblonde:
          Another assumption. I'm just merely point out the lack of intelligence behind your statements and showing how stupid it is by mirroring it and reflecting it back to you with a slight change in context.

          The only emotion that is present is your own which is inferred as you read my statements. If anything I am just confused about why unintelligent people choose to divert away from the debate apart from the fact that they have no meaningful thought to contribute to the original topic.

  • Autonomic on 08/04/2018 - 13:16
    +2

    I think this is a plot point in the next lego movie. Lego men escaping mid shipping resulting in hilarious hijinks.

    • Tiggrrrrr on 09/04/2018 - 19:04

      Do you work for E! ?

  • Roary on 08/04/2018 - 15:24

    Didnt he notice that their was no weight before he proceeded to open it?
    His story sounds suss that he didnt notice this until after he opened it.

    • whooah1979 on 08/04/2018 - 17:27

      Weight or no weight. Curiosity drives people to open the mail article to see for themselves.

  • Yuri Lowell on 08/04/2018 - 15:30

    It's the risk you take with Ebay. The best solution to your problem would be Paypal refunding the buyer themselves (that's happened to me once). At least it wasn't an expensive item like a phone or computer which are common items to be scammed on.

  • AustriaBargain on 08/04/2018 - 16:32
    +1

    You certain AusPo didn’t empty it?

  • Virg52 on 08/04/2018 - 16:50

    Hi, in regards to Aussie Post parcels, whenever I have sent anything they always weigh the parcel and charge postage as per weight of the parce to be sent. So if you look at your receipt it should have the weight of the parcel sent. Hope this helps?

    • cowiie on 09/04/2018 - 18:48

      One of the first comments made by OP:

      That would have been good but no, it was a pre-paid weight.

      Meaning he bought a prepaid sachet (i.e. small 500g/medium 3kg/large 5kg)

  • reactor-au on 08/04/2018 - 17:27

    So has the buyer listed any Lego for sale on eBay yet? Check Gumtree also, maybe the scammer has it listed already.

  • anthonyqld on 08/04/2018 - 18:52

    His very over the top email is proof he is lying. People who are genuinely ripped-off don't write like that. Reply to him saying you'll report him to the police for fraud. Will he risk a potential criminal charge over $50?

    • jason101 on 09/04/2018 - 07:52

      You'd be surprised, I had a similar situation over a lego box which got creased in transit, I got a very similar email from the buyer. I replaced the item with a brand new item at my expense - they still left me negative feedback complaining of their creased box!!

  • Steven Reece Lewis on 08/04/2018 - 19:12
    +3

    I sold a dlc code on eBay for a ps4 game. I had a buyer purchase the digital code . He left positive feedback and even responded politely to my messages with the code. I forgot to leave him feedback and 3 months went buy and the day that my ability to leave feedback elapsed (3 month time limit) he initiated a credit card charge back. I didn't know that PayPal seller protection doesn't cover digital content. Not only did PayPal extract the sale price from my PayPal account, they also forwarded the fee the bank charged on top putting me put of pocket by $45. Even with all the evidence this guy was committing fraud there was nothing I could do. I get satisfaction knowing he had to wait 3 months from my laziness. I suspect he pulled this scam all the time. He'd wait for positive feedback to be left and then he'd pull chargeback. This way his profile looks good and the seller is none the wiser until it's too late. Selling on eBay has become incredibly risky to the point I feel anxious using it to sell my stuff because of the sheer amount of scammers ruining it for small individuals who don't have the financial security of a larger business.

    • Toretto on 08/04/2018 - 19:32
      +2

      Same thing happened to me a few months back. I even emailed the DLC to the buyer through ebay message, and the buyer claimed his account was hacked and initiated a chargeback.

      Despite clear and compelling proof I fulfilled my obligation and responsibility and the buyer redeemed the code, Paypal refunded the buyer, my account went into negative, AND they dropped a $15 chargeback fee on me to top it all off.

      I told them hell will freeze over before I deposit the negative funds back in the account.

    • netsurfer on 08/04/2018 - 21:25
      +1

      I also had a couple of bad experience with selling digital items. When the buyers initiated a credit charge back (claiming fraudulent transactions), PayPal immediately raised cases against me. feeBay support are completely clueless and told me if I sent information that I delivered the item digitally, PayPal will provide seller protection. That's completely false. If the seller cannot provide sufficient evidence of a physical delivery by a third party (i.e. the delivery company and that company must also store the address in their system), PayPal will not offer seller protection at all.

      Long story short. If you sell digital items at feeBay, you are at a complete mercy of the buyers. Also, if you think most buyers won't do anything dodgy, you will be in for a big surprise (especially if the items you are selling are game related).

      • Steven Reece Lewis on 09/04/2018 - 07:02

        Wow. Seeing both you and Toretto had the same experience, We could start a thread on this very topic alone.

        The problem with digital is that legally, the law hasn't entirely caught up with the fact that digital property isn't that different from a tangible physical product. Big storefronts like Sony Playstation network hide behind the lack of law with their inability to issue refunds.

        It'll be a few years before PayPal allow sellers protection on a game code.

        I've definitely learnt my lesson.

        • netsurfer on 09/04/2018 - 10:52

          It's not just a law issue. It's the nature of digital products. How can the buyer be certain that the code hasn't been used? What if the code isn't as described in the listing? How about buyer changing his/her mind? Reversing a digital code isn't easy.

          Another big difference is that there is no third party involved (i.e. no delivery company involved). So, it is too easy to go into buyer's words vs seller's words. And, unless you are an authorised seller, it is unlikely the game company will offer any assistance (not easily anyway).

          There is a reason why feeBay do not offer any final value fee discount for vouchers or tickets during all these "no final value fee or $1 final value fee special events" (even if you physically send the items to the buyers). These type of items are just high risk in nature.

          Buyer's remorse could kick in very quickly for a game related purchase, esp. if the game turned out to be frustrating for the buyer. I have had a buyer who clearly played the game for 1 month and then initiated a credit charge back. It was clearly a change of mind (which personally, I would allow a return and full refund), but he took the quick and easy way out (and it ended being PayPal raising a case against me - it was a mess and eBay told me the wrong info; Paypal didn't give a damn whether I will get the item back or not).

    • Levathian on 09/04/2018 - 14:24

      Chargeback is a huge scam area IMHO

      My family business was scammed $1400 by someone who bought a lot of stuff using a stolen credit card (or we presume it was stolen) and had it delivered to an aus post locker I believe. Once they got the goods, they filed a chargeback and the bank wasn't interested in any of the proof we had that it was sent. Ridiculous.

      • Fever4shakin on 10/04/2018 - 14:33

        I always wondered about this actually. I know when CC fraud occurs the bank are really good and clear the fraudulent charges for the original cardholder. I didn't realise the businesses might be the ones copping the lost thou. Just thought the banks would wear it since they have the $$

        • Levathian on 10/04/2018 - 14:58

          Nup. Our bank passed the costs + chargeback fee onto us (as an extra (profanity) you)

  • TransportPosters on 08/04/2018 - 19:57

    I'd say that eBay or PayPal will refund the buyer, but if you have a good track record you can appeal to whichever company does it and they may return your funds also at their own expense. It happened to me. There is hope.

  • T1OOO on 08/04/2018 - 20:01
    -2

    Buyer or refund money. Then claim insurance from auspost.

  • T1OOO on 08/04/2018 - 20:04

    Sounds like there is a gap in the market for a third party to confirm the goods.

    • do-ob on 08/04/2018 - 21:00

      Escrow?

      • bargain_knight on 09/04/2018 - 17:33
        +1

        This is where the value of digital currency lies. You can set contract based events attached to the digital currency. They are called smart contracts. Ethereum for example has them.

        It all exists now, but it hasn't yet caught on. The thing is to simplify it down for these sorts of regular transactions.

        I've had the problem where I've paid tradesmen to do work and it is not delivered as promised. The problem is that a lot of problems become apparent later and by then they have done a runner. Smart contracts should solve that as it protects both sides of the transaction.

        More info:

        https://blockgeeks.com/guides/smart-contracts/

        • Tiggrrrrr on 09/04/2018 - 19:07

          And that prevents this situation how exactly?

  • [Deactivated] on 08/04/2018 - 21:17

    what an a-hole people like that so ruin eBay. what's his username so we can all block the lying scumbag

    • Aceboy884 on 08/04/2018 - 21:43
      +3

      Name and shame is good

      So others searching this a hole name would hopefully find this thread in the future

      • ozzpete on 09/04/2018 - 09:02

        I searched this one scammers name on google, turned out his company and himself had been in news for ripping off a heap of people, then declared bankruptcy owing alot of money.
        He had changed like a very small part of his company name, and continued trading.
        Sold me a phone that was unusable (sim tray was jammed shut) plus had other damage not described.
        OP could post the real name perhaps, aswell as ebay username. But only if 100% certain that they are a scammer. The package may possibly have had product removed from box during transit. Maybe someone at courier company took the lego out.

        • EightImmortals on 09/04/2018 - 09:47
          +1

          Unlikely, they would just pinch the whole thing, why go to the trouble of unwrapping and re-wrapping the whole thing? While I have had a few packages go missing over the years and some packages where the whole order was not supplied (quickly sorted out with the seller) but I have never had one turn up totally empty.

        • ozzpete on 09/04/2018 - 09:55

          @EightImmortals: I agree, if was properly wrapped up, then this actually discounts the possibility that it was tampered with outside at OP door.
          If it was tampered with at courier sorting facility, well most certainly they would still need something to be couriered, since items would have some sort of tracking system and missing item would come up as a red flag at the depot.
          So if it was tampered with after seller sent it, then most likely would have been at courier facility, amd they wrapped it up again and sent empty box, to avoid suspicion.
          Of course, it is quite possible that seller sent an empty box. But then, why even send the box, why not just send a shoebox, or a tissur box, then keep lego in the original box.

        • whooah1979 on 09/04/2018 - 11:01

          @EightImmortals:

          turn up totally empty.

          This may happen from time to time during transit. Sorting machines may sometimes damage the packaging and the contents gets lost. The consignments will need to be repaired and put back into transit even when the consignments are empty.

          Retail LEGO is an easy item to recognise by sound. It makes a distinct sound when rattled. Employees and contractors steal them because they can be quite valuable to collectors beyond their retail price.

        • Tafe on 09/04/2018 - 11:21

          @whooah1979:

          In this particular case, it was a promotional minifigure set. Very well packed and taped.

          No rattling parts like a traditional set as each figure has it's own individual section in a blister pack.

        • worlds_most_wanted on 10/04/2018 - 14:32

          @whooah1979:

          Not saying it doesn't happen, but any Australia Post employee would be charged under a federal crime if they were caught.

        • deepblonde on 14/04/2018 - 13:20

          @worlds_most_wanted: problem is it's very hard to catch them, and so it goes on

      • Autonomic on 09/04/2018 - 19:21

        The problem is you could come up with a convincing story and set a witch hunt off on anyone.

  • shangoz on 08/04/2018 - 21:25

    The day you put that things in Australia post should have a camera image prove you really put it in the box, you might try to ask the staff give you a help to prove you are not doing wrong things. anyway, always have very small percentage of human doing terrible unhuman evil things.

    • netsurfer on 09/04/2018 - 11:16

      OP indicated it was a courier company, not AusPost.

  • DiscoJango on 08/04/2018 - 21:32
    +1

    been selling on ebay since 2003 with no problems, however recently i got burned similar to op, and its not uncommon if you search the web. now since ebay forces you to use paypal, and the ease at which a buyer can simply get a refund, has made it not worth my while to sell anymore.

  • Aceboy884 on 08/04/2018 - 21:42

    I had a douche from cananda who complained I sent you the wrong item

    The idiot scammer didn’t even receive the parcel yet so I knew he was full of turd

    So when he filed a complaint through PayPal, he decided to send a registered letter to show the product was returned

    But fortunately the lazy ass post man didn’t scan the parcel so it was never “delivered”

    You get people like that online, making a huge effort to scam you some monies

    Fortunately they represent the minority

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