Honey, Stealing Comissions and Preventing Real Discounts

OzBurger on 22/12/2024 - 19:08
Last edited 23/12/2024 - 00:00 by 1 other user

https://youtu.be/vc4yL3YTwWk?si=-DxmlZTdKYvxNO7A

https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/1hjmjsx/megalag_exp…

Honey is a browser extension that claims to offer the best possible discount by offering coupon codes.

It appears that they are overriding affiliate clicks and stealing comissions as well as preventing people from geting the best discounts possible.

Wouldn't you know it, they are part of PayPal.

tl;dr: Honey acts against the best interest of both influencers that promote it and users that use it.

Honey overrides referral cookies even if it didn't find any discount code. This effectively means that actual affiliates get no money from Honey user purchases and it goes to PayPal instead.

Honey Gold returns a very small fraction of this affiliate money back to the user. MegaLag tested it on his own referral link with and without Honey and comparing the results: he received $35.60 commission from the purchase without Honey, and $0.89 worth of Honey Gold points with Honey activated.

Honey publicly states that its business partners have control over the codes that are presented to users. So a user relying on Honey will be intentionally given worse discount codes than they might have been able to find on their own manually.

TLDR from Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/1hjmjsx/comment/m37…

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Comments

  • Clear on 22/12/2024 - 19:17
    +2

    TIL honey had a cashback program. Before that it was always well known they were dishing out affiliate links to their users and bringing in the rewards for themselves. Affiliate marketing is good money. Why do you think cashback sites here always mention not to use it?

    • OzBurger on 22/12/2024 - 20:09
      +1

      I had seen Honey before but never bothered to install it as it seemed very USA centric.

      This explains why sites like Cash Rewards wouldn't work when they are used.

      • neoleo on 22/12/2024 - 20:43
        +1

        I didn't notice Honey extension in my Safari browser before today or maybe I forget. I have Paypal app installed though. I have disabled this extension before cashback transactions today, no problem with tracking.

      • Clear on 22/12/2024 - 20:50

        It's been a common theme over the years. People click through CR/SB and then go activate some discounts from Honey. The commission goes to the last click and that's Honey. Sooooo many forum posts and negs in deals have been caused by this.

    • JimmyF on 24/12/2024 - 13:29
      -1

      You claim it was 'well known', yet the YouTube video can find hardly anyone talking about it until now.

      • Clear on 24/12/2024 - 13:54

        Maybe because we're talking about two different things? Honey getting commission off your purchases isn't new. Honey Gold ripping off influencers (what the video is about) is new.

        • JimmyF on 24/12/2024 - 14:08
          +1

          Honey Gold ripping off influencers (what the video is about) is new.

          That wasn't what the video was really about it. It was about Honey replacing the affiliate links or inserting their own while trying to find you a coupon. Yes sometimes this meant the influencers got ripped off, but it also meant Honey was getting affiliate commission even if there wasn't an affiliate link to start with.

          If I went to a random site, Honey would pop up saying hey I'm sorry, I've got no coupons for this site. So you click ok, doing this, honey secretly does a affiliate click to steel the commission from this site without you knowing.

          • Clear on 24/12/2024 - 14:39
            +1

            @JimmyF: And now you know why every cashback site has been saying to disable Honey for years. Other coupon sites are no different, i.e. retailmenot

            • JimmyF on 24/12/2024 - 15:11
              -1

              @Clear:

              every cashback site has been saying to disable Honey for years

              Have they really? Point me to a FAQ that these sites say to disable HONEY.

              • Clear on 24/12/2024 - 15:35
                +1

                @JimmyF: Doesn't take much effort to start finding them. Here's some recent ones from TCB and TA always says it.

                https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/876304
                https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/881010
                https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/880350

                If you're going to say that's only recent then here's TA @ CR mentioning it in 2021.

                https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/11110145/redir

                It's not limited to OzBargain either. Below on Quora is a discussion from 2016 about how they make their money:

                https://www.quora.com/How-does-Honey-money-coupon-app-make-m…

                And from TopCashback's terms on every store page under "what else is essential":

                You must disable plugins such as Honey, AdBlock, uBlock, Pi-hole & VPNs prior to clicking/tapping from TopCashback as they will prevent your order from tracking.

                • JimmyF on 24/12/2024 - 16:32
                  -3

                  @Clear: You claimed 'every cashback site has been saying to disable Honey for years', but can't show any site that has it in the FAQ/T&C, only a couple who list it in the deals T&C posted here, but with no reason to why, Honey is also mixed in with a long with a long list of other plugins like pihole. Are you saying pihole is stealing commission links too? :)

                  Quora is talking about the honey cashback, this issue is bigger than just the Cashback side of the business. That side is no different than the Cashback companies here. Take a large chunk, share a tiny bit.

                  Anyhow, we'll agree to disagree. I don't agree with your statement that this was 'well known' for years about honey. If so, why the outrage now?

  • welcomeUniverseWorld on 22/12/2024 - 19:35
    +10

    Thanks. I just removed it.

    • OzBurger on 22/12/2024 - 20:09
      +2

      Excellent

  • Gdsamp on 22/12/2024 - 19:47
    +2

    Just watched this video. as always if the product is free you are the product

    • Gdsamp on 22/12/2024 - 19:50
      +2

      Also, iirc Microsoft Edge has a similar feature - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/edge/learning-center/save-mo…

      Are they doing something similarly scummy here?

    • OzBurger on 22/12/2024 - 20:10

      Absolutely.

      Some times you just accept this as fact. But stealing the "last click" from the Influencers they were paying to promote their "service" is pretty scummy.

    • JimmyF on 24/12/2024 - 13:29

      as always if the product is free you are the product

      I'm a product to ozbargain?

      • Gdsamp on 25/12/2024 - 16:44

        Senator, we run ads

  • Sye on 22/12/2024 - 20:16
    +1

    Another case of corporate theft and they get away with it.

    • OzBurger on 22/12/2024 - 20:44

      Absoloutely!

  • neoleo on 22/12/2024 - 20:32

    I have disabled this extension in my Safari settings for iPad before I used Shopback for Pizza Hut transactions today. I have changed a lot of settings in my iPad to ensure no problem with cashback tracking. No problem so far.

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/16090469/redir

  • holdenmg on 22/12/2024 - 20:32

    I like https://zyft.com better than Honey.
    :+)

  • askbargain on 22/12/2024 - 20:56
    +3

    I use Honey only on Edge (third browser). Edge allows you to only run add on when clicked. Just use it to find a coupon code and copy it to your main browser.

  • cashless on 22/12/2024 - 22:05
    +4

    I thought this thread was going to be about shrinking your kids

  • Rebsphere on 23/12/2024 - 00:08

    I did not know this. Thanks for posting. Will be removing Honey from my Chrome browser.

  • geekcohen on 23/12/2024 - 05:41

    Okay, so due to this - I've removed it (like many others). Now the question is, what are alternatives? Honey has provided me with some great coupons recently and saved me a few bucks when doing Xmas ordering.

  • OBEY YOUR MASTERS on 23/12/2024 - 09:29
    +1

    Its a wonder that some kind of legal case cant be made againt Honey/Paypal? It seems like straight up theft?

  • zombrex on 23/12/2024 - 15:28

    Don't webistes like cashrewards/shopback also do this, but to a lesser extent. They still keep a percentage of the cashback right and usually the majority. that is why they can offer upsized cashbacks at times while at other times offering as slow as 1%.

    • scotty on 23/12/2024 - 16:03
      +6

      I think it's about whether the website/app/extension is doing what the user is expecting it to do.

      1. when someone clicked on the cashback site, they are expecting earning a fixed amount or a percentage of transaction amount from the purchase they made
      2. when someone clicked on Honey/Zyft/Edge's coupon extension, they are expecting it would find the best coupon code, and that's it

      It's not uncommon for people to expect clicking on (1) and (2) one after the other would get them the best of both extensions, but the reality is that (2) has just robbed the commission from (1), and that causes all sorts of tracking issues for cashback sites.

      Then someone would post in the forums complaining the cashback sites stealing their money…

      Cashback sites also don't keep the majority of the commission. Often 25% or less. However they do promotions with merchants to "drive up conversions" that's why you see those upsized cashback rates.

      • trustnoone on 03/01/2025 - 18:44

        Had the same question, great explanation for this, thanks!

  • OzBurger on 23/12/2024 - 18:11

    Markiplier's "gut feeling", 4y ago, about the recently exposed Honey fraud

    https://youtu.be/JdMAC61RK7s?si=l2rPx7GtmDzkIEGF

  • hamza23 on 23/12/2024 - 19:34
    +3

    OzBargain has a non intrusive browser extension for Chrome and Firefox. It will show you the coupons, cashback rates and related deals for the website you are on, but only if you click on it.

    [Announcement] OzBargain Chrome & Firefox Browser Extensions

  • Serenixia on 23/12/2024 - 21:26
    +1

    Just watched the video, immediately removed the extension! more people gotta know about this

  • DoctorCalculon on 23/12/2024 - 23:09
    +1

    Thanks OP for sharing, you legend.

    The extension was disabled. Now removed with extreme prejudice.

    • OzBurger on 24/12/2024 - 12:48
      +1

      LOL, awesome.

  • Empharand on 23/12/2024 - 23:24
    +1

    Honey (aka PayPal) being dodgy as usual. Lets not overlook that it's PayPal that own and run Honey, so ultimately it's PayPal stealing the referral/affiliate clicks.
    Uninstalled across all browsers and when Honey opened up a new tab to ask 'Why' I simply linked them back to the MegaLag video

    I hope they get sued by a collective of third parties (Other cashback sites, promoters etc) for robbing them of their earnings. I'm a little concerned that they may go after MegaLag and send a cease and desist for some bogus reason (eg. Defamation) to take-down the video… PayPal certainly have the legal-power and funding to make some noise if they want, and considering they're likely losing a bunch right now it wouldn't surprise me!

    • scotty on 25/12/2024 - 12:38
      +4

      You might find the practice of Honey injecting its own affiliate cookies was there before it got acquired by PayPal in 2020. Actually coupon sites doing similar practices went all the way back when RetailMeNot was founded in 2006. You'll be surprised to find how many coupon sites are there in Australia, many of them white-labelled international sites — those that always require you to "click to reveal" the coupons, which redirect you via affiliate links in the background tab.

      I remembered bloggers complaining about RetailMeNot and other coupon sites many years ago — no different from influencers today complaining about Honey stealing their commission.

      In the end it's the affiliate marketing's last-click attribution model that's flawed. However no one has come up with a better model after so many years.

  • DoctorCalculon on 24/12/2024 - 14:15
    +1

    send a cease and desist for some bogus reason (eg. Defamation) to take-down the video

    I really hope the MegaLag video in the OP description goes viral.

    You can see how much time and efforts the video author has expended in meticulously collecting all the evidence around the attribution cookie re-writing that Honey has been doing all unknown to the average user, and the original referrers who deserve the commission.

    • OzBurger on 24/12/2024 - 18:52
      +1

      Absolutely, that's part of why I shared it here.

      Start a conversation with any friends and family who might have added this scammy extension.

      And use it as an excuse to send them a Cash Rewards or Shop Back invite….

  • AKJJ on 24/12/2024 - 22:50
    +2

    I lost hundreds on a Cashrewards Lenovo deal earlier this year because apparently Honey had done the referral, not Cashrewards. Was very disappointing and not surprised this is more systematic

  • neoleo on 04/01/2025 - 18:17
    Merged from Honey extension loses 3 million Chrome users after being exposed for shady tactics

    There are some links in the news source:
    https://9to5google.com/2025/01/03/honey-paypal-chrome-extens…

    From the news above:
    "PayPal’s Honey has been a massively popular Chrome extension for years, promising to find coupon codes and save consumers money, all without costing a dime. However, a recent video exposed shady tactics by Honey, and has led to over 3 million Chrome users uninstalling the extension.

    Honey’s promise to users is that it will help users “score the lowest price” for digital retailers by “[looking] for and [applying] digital coupons and promo codes.” It’s easy to see the appeal there, but as with anything, it doesn’t do this for free. Instead of charging customers, Honey, and extensions like it, have always taken advantage of affiliate programs which pay out a fee for referral sales. So, by using Honey, you’re effectively telling the retailer that Honey is the one that sent you and, as such, Honey gets a small kickback from your purchase.

    This practice was met with blowback through a recent video from MegaLag, where the video showed evidence that Honey will replace an affiliate code from another source – such as a YouTube video or website like our own – with Honey’s, in turn taking credit for the sale and “stealing” the fee from that other referral. It’s called “last click attribution” and is always how this has worked, but many users and creators alike were clearly unaware of this.

    More worrying in the video, however, were reveals of how Honey is doing the exact opposite of what it promises to do.

    Rather than finding the “best” coupon codes as it promises, it was revealed that Honey works with retailers to purposely hide better codes and only show the ones that retailers would prefer users to see. That’s why many have noticed over the past few years that Honey rarely delivers steep discounts. Despite that, though, a shady dealing of Honey is that if you interact with the extension at all, whether it finds a code or not, Honey will still “steal” attribution for the sale.

    The MegaLag video detailing Honey’s scam has amassed over 14 million views since it was posted on December 21, which has led to many users uninstalling the extension. By looking at The Internet Archive’s Wayback Machine, the Chrome Web Store shows that at least 3 million users have uninstalled Honey recently, as the extension had over 20 million users before the video was posted, and is now down to 17 million, dropping roughly 2 million in just the week the video was posted.

    Honey has yet to address the blowback, but a class action lawsuit has been filed."

    Source: https://9to5google.com/2025/01/03/honey-paypal-chrome-extens…

    • neoleo on 04/01/2025 - 18:21

      How to remove Honey extension in Safari browser in my iPad? I can only disable it. Should I remove PayPal app? I have never installed Honey extension only by myself as I have never interested to use this extension.

    • Protractor on 04/01/2025 - 18:24
      +2

      If it sounds too good to be true….

      • askbargain on 04/01/2025 - 18:34
        +6

        OzBargain sounds too good to be true!

        • neoleo on 04/01/2025 - 18:54
          +4

          Free large pizza + 6 wings + drink from Shopback deals in Ozbargain recently look too good to be true. Profit $4/order with Single Wingstreet menu + Apple Pay bonus cashback.

          I hope Shopback won't scam us :P

      • coffeeinmyveins on 04/01/2025 - 18:45
        +2

        Yeah but this is a whole other level

        Usually it's like "yeah they're using your data"

        But this is " committing fraud, , extortion and stealing money from people and actively blackmailing companies to pay them to allow them to control which coupons are shown" stuff

    • coffeeinmyveins on 04/01/2025 - 18:46
      +5

      Honey has yet to address the blowback

      You mean PayPal

      Nothing will happen because money

      • neoleo on 04/01/2025 - 18:50

        I copied-pasted the news article, not my words.

      • Protractor on 04/01/2025 - 19:08
        -6

        Oh, not so!
        I can see our beloved, lionhearted,wolf toothed ACCC riding over the hill, high on the steed of justice to rescue every victim, one and all….
        or ,hang on, maybe cowering under the bed. I forget how they roll these days.

        • coffeeinmyveins on 04/01/2025 - 19:25
          +3

          What's the accc got to do with this?

          You realise this isn't an Australian only thing right. Our market is nothing compared to the US. All of this will play out there.

          • Protractor on 04/01/2025 - 20:10
            -6

            @coffeeinmyveins: Oh excuse me.One would think the org responsible for consumer justice (is it not Aussies being ripped off too?) would be kinda concerned. (Hint> They aint, hence my comment.Psst> It's 'sarcasm'. But I know you knew that.

            Also it should be equipped, given PPal here has an .au hosting.

    • Pelicannn on 04/01/2025 - 19:41

      Cheers, I never really used it but have uninstalled.

    • mskeggs on 04/01/2025 - 20:38
      +10

      How do people think Shopback and Cash rewards work?

      • Clear on 04/01/2025 - 22:07
        +1

        And yet people still tried to argue it in the last post lol

    • KaTst3R on 04/01/2025 - 21:15
      +3

      Why is anyone surprised how Honey operates? This is affiliate marketing and it is always about last click. They will always give you a code that gives them the biggest kickback, rather than the ones that gives you the best discount but little revenue for Honey.

      • afayd on 04/01/2025 - 22:43
        +7

        I don't think you watched the MegaLag video. Even when it says it couldn't find any coupons and you click 'Ok', it still erases the previous referrer and inserts itself. The blatant lie to the consumer that it will find you the biggest discount coupons while working with the seller behind the scenes to minimise it is pretty appalling.

        • KaTst3R on 05/01/2025 - 08:25

          That is why i said Last Click. The moment you use Honey, they are your last click regardless if they found you a coupon or not. This is how affliate marketing operates. It is just that the general consumer dont understand how the industry works.

          • ozziekhoo on 05/01/2025 - 09:01

            @KaTst3R:

            It is just that the general consumer dont understand how the industry works.

            Maybe because intuitively, using a coupon shouldn't mean my original affiliate should be removed as my final affiliate. My "last click" was the YouTuber that I found the product from. Using a coupon doesn't mean I want to change my affiliate. Intuitively, of course. Thats why it was shady practice.

            • Clear on 05/01/2025 - 09:14

              @ozziekhoo: I don't think he's disagreeing with the fact that Honey are being shady. More people don't understand affiliate marketing and it's true. Just look at how many people have trouble with cashback when it comes to running adblock and trying to double dip.

      • coffeeinmyveins on 05/01/2025 - 09:47

        tell me you didn't watch the video without telling me.

        you don't know what's going on here. it's nothing to do with "last click". It's fraud, extortion and blackmail.

        • Clear on 05/01/2025 - 10:23

          So how does affiliate marketing work then? Because he's not wrong about how "last click" works in the affiliate space. Honey doing the dodgy and still dishing out their own affiliate links without your knowledge still works the same way.

          And how are Honey extorting and blackmailing when you install the add-on? Do they send you threatening emails? Or are we just throwing buzzwords around?

    • uncyspam on 04/01/2025 - 22:08
      +5

      Not at all surprised to see the video today from Legal Eagle announcing a class action to sue them.
      From what I’ve read so far, it seems like the practice of advertising that they get you the best price when in reality they are deliberately making sure you don’t is the only illegal action under US law. Hijacking affiliate links is scummy but probably not illegal.
      Make sure you tell everyone about this. The best way we as consumers can fight this shitty behavior is to try and remove as many of their users as fast as we can.

    • Lockieasy on 04/01/2025 - 22:59
      +2

      I enjoy watching youtube but the youtubers themselves tend to get sponsored by the scammiest and/or crappiest products/services out there, which is why I never installed this one.

    • Kayrhcp on 05/01/2025 - 07:57
      +1

      I tried honey years ago, saw the codes were shit and uninstalled after a couple purchases. Honestly, I’m surprised it took this long for people to clock that they don’t give you the best vouchers possible. For me, that was always the experience.

    • MrThing on 05/01/2025 - 08:16

      "big company in the USA covertly screwing small users / producers"

      Nope the unique breed of capitalism in the USA working as intended

      • coffeeinmyveins on 05/01/2025 - 09:48
        -1

        Capitalism is not an American unique thing, you know that right?

        Because it's so much better in Aus where everything is about property and no-one can afford to live in anything other than a poorly made cardboard box.

        But screw MuRiCa, right.

        • Protractor on 05/01/2025 - 10:06
          +1

          "NOBODY but nobody screws MuRiCa booooY
          That's their job.It's innin thurr constiti-atution,y'all."

          LOL, they made the gurgler they're sliding down, of their own free will and there whirling down it faster and faster every day.
          Our homeless ppl would probably still take a cardboard box here over a trailer trash option in America.

          • MrThing on 05/01/2025 - 12:07

            @Protractor: Least you can get healthcare if you live in a cardboard box in Australia

            • Protractor on 05/01/2025 - 12:39

              @MrThing: And most often survive high school, without having you and your class shot dead by a 2nd amendment specialist

        • MrThing on 05/01/2025 - 12:06

          American capitalism is the peak of greedyness and "fuk you got mine" mentality

          Empathy doesn't even exist as a word in their vocabulary

          • coffeeinmyveins on 05/01/2025 - 16:27

            @MrThing: and we're any better? lol

          • OBEY YOUR MASTERS on 06/01/2025 - 15:54

            @MrThing: It also made them the wealthiest country in the world.

            If honey stole commissions from others then let them be sued. Nothing at all to do with capitalism.

    • foxmulder on 05/01/2025 - 11:25

      I have uninstalled it within first week of their promo years ago. It never worked.

  • curtturtle on 06/01/2025 - 14:10
    +1

    I uninstalled it and deleted my account. I now know why so many of my shopbacks didn't go through.

  • c64 on 09/01/2025 - 19:29

    in firefox you can have multiple profiles, create separate profiles for cashrewards or topcashback etc. launch the one you want to use

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