Gaps between Stationary Cars Stopped at Traffic Lights

Moi Too on 22/12/2024 - 10:19
Last edited 22/12/2024 - 12:55 by 1 other user

What the hell is this new phenomenon? Whenever I pull up at the lights, I stop on the broad white line, which is painted on the road for just that purpose. But now I see so many people stopping a couple of metres back from that line, and then having further to go when the lights turn green, thus holding up the car behind them, (even if only slightly).

I suspect this is because there are so many INCOMPETENT and INEXPERIENCED drivers around today, who have no idea of the physics of their vehicle, and how much space it occupies. They simply can't tell where the front of their car is, so they stop metres away from stop lines and stop signs etc., "just in case". Apart from it causing excessive spreading-out of the traffic, with flow-on effects further back, it's also a dead give-away that the driver is unskilled and unfamiliar with vehicle usage on public roads, and thus a risk.

But even worse than this weirdness, there are the folks who always pull up A FULL CAR LENGTH behind the car in front, at stop lights! What?! I just do not get that. I see it every day, everywhere. Why do they do it?

Is it because they were told by the driving instructor that one must always stay at least a car's length behind the car in front, or at least 3 second's behind it? And did they take that literally, and didn't understand that it only applies WHEN TRAFFIC IS ACTUALLY MOVING, not when it's stationary… smh….

I won't even try to get my head around this trend of everybody REVERSING into car parks spots. I've had a chat about that elsewhere, and the reasons they gave were so senseless I couldn't bother.

Automotive

Comments

    • tight-ass on 22/12/2024 - 18:13
      +1

      It seems to be a common problem lately - I've had to toot my horn and wave the car in front of me to move forward so that they're on the sensor and the lights detect them.

      In WA there's no mention in the Drive Safe book that motorists need to position themselves over the loop at traffic lights to be detected. If your driving instructor doesn't teach you this (and many don't) how will people know?

    • abear on 23/12/2024 - 08:57

      Exact same thing happened the other day. Must have been 20 cars jammed up because lead car was too far back to trigger sensors

  • CurlCurl on 22/12/2024 - 13:38

    A metre of so is plenty.

    If you stopped a metre behind me, I would be very slow of the mark.

  • Moi Too on 22/12/2024 - 13:40
    -2

    Well, that tells us something about you.

    Apart from the fact that you think "off" is spelt "of". ;)

  • EightImmortals on 22/12/2024 - 13:50
    +1

    Have noticed this as well. Along with people driving 10k's below the speed limit. Been going on for a few years now and I can't figure it out. Invasion of the body-snatchers I suspect.

  • May4th on 22/12/2024 - 14:11

    It's probably because of start stop they don't want to engage the engine to crawl 30cm. you can always ram them to close the gap

  • Rahonui on 22/12/2024 - 14:13
    +1

    I reverse into a park so that when i go to leave, i have better vision for the people who treat car parks like roads, and zip through. I'll always go close to the line, especially if there's a pressure pad to trigger the lights. It does annoy me if the front car isn't far enough forward to hit it. If I'm a part of the queue though, I'll always leave a bit of space - just in case. Sue me

    • quick-dry on 23/12/2024 - 13:42
      -1

      I think for a lot of people nowadays, it'd be safer to be reversing out - you're back behind the other cars next to you and have a limited field of view even if going forwards, but the rear of many cars now have sensors for cross-traffic warnings that they don't have on the front.

      • Euphemistic on 23/12/2024 - 22:30

        Rear sensors are there becasue its harder to see. Sensors are no substitue for actually seeing, like you can out the front.

        • quick-dry on 24/12/2024 - 04:14

          I don't disagree, but the point is that depending on the parking sistuation you can sometimes 'see' out the back better when using cross-traffic sensors and the ultra-fisheye cameras than the letterbox view you get when wedged in between some ginormous SUVs

  • Moi Too on 22/12/2024 - 14:34
    -2

    Yes, you can better avoid those idiots who tear through car parks if you can see them coming.

    But what about those other "idiots", that is, the little kids who jump out of cars once they're parked, just when you're reversing into that space between their car and another car.. Reversing into a confined space like a parking bay seems to me to be far riskier, for yourself and others, than to drive straight in. Driving in, you can see kids, old folk, baby prams etc, which are very likely about to be in that space.

    Reversing out, on the other hand, you're driving into a wide open area. Sure there might be fools there, but not quite as likely to be kids. Or little old ladies, or disabled people.

    • El cheepo on 23/12/2024 - 01:31
      +4

      Do you hear yourself talking?
      Its utter nonsense all round 😂

      Reversing into a confined space like a parking bay seems to me to be far riskier, for yourself and others, than to drive straight in. Driving in, you can see kids, old folk, baby prams etc, which are very likely about to be in that space.

      How many old folks, prams and kids suddenly pop up between the 3-5 seconds you checked passing the bay to performing the manoeuvre?

      Why would any of those demographics be randomly between cars unless they are getting in or out, in which case you can still see them…

      Where as

      Reversing out, on the other hand, you're driving into a wide open area.

      Which is exactly the space all of those people are because the vast majority of people (especially old folk like yourself and people with prams etc) walk along those areas.

      Now think how long it takes you to pack your car, and get ready to reverse blindly into the area they are… you can’t be aware of your surroundings and who’s nearby before you reverse out and they can’t see you reversing until your car moves because most people cant see parked cars brake/reverse lights during the day

      The only way around this is if you have a wide angle reverse camera - in which case your argument is moot either way.

      I am serious wondering if this is a low performance troll account or just the ramblings of a bumbling boomer thats found ozbargain…

    • 2esc on 23/12/2024 - 10:58

      Reversing out into traffic that's travelling at 50, 60 klms an hour. Vision is often limited by suvs parked beside you as well. In many country towns its actually been made law to reverse angle park to combat these problems.

  • bargaino on 22/12/2024 - 14:35
    +1

    But now I see so many people stopping a couple of metres back from that line,

    I think that may well be a new thing. The law says to stop as close to the line as possible. So you can see better, and don't block pedestrians and cyclists crossing behind.

    I don't think people are getting any dumber (they've always been stupid), or licenses easier to get. Are we just tolerating dumbness more, or caring less?

    REVERSING into car parks spots

    Why does that matter? Reverse parking needs less space to manoeuvre, so could it be people in oversized ESVs driving the trend? Or automated parking systems?

  • freefall101 on 22/12/2024 - 14:47
    +5

    I stop on the broad white line

    You're meant to stop before it, not on it.

    But now I see so many people stopping a couple of metres back from that line

    This is always hilarious when people to this at intersections where a turn arrow is triggered by a sensor under the road. I saw it a couple of weeks ago where a huge line of traffic had built up, all because one person hadn't pulled forward enough to be on top of it and thus trigger it. I was crossing the road (on foot) and told the guy he needs to pull forward to trigger the lights, he just looked at me weirdly. So yeah, some people are stupid.

    But even worse than this weirdness, there are the folks who always pull up A FULL CAR LENGTH behind the car in front, at stop lights! What?! I just do not get that. I see it every day, everywhere. Why do they do it?

    So if the car in front of you breaks down, can't move or something happens, you're able to get around them.

    Apart from it causing excessive spreading-out of the traffic, with flow-on effects further back

    What flow-on effects? Unless the traffic backs all the way up to a freeway or something then it's not an issue.

    I won't even try to get my head around this trend of everybody REVERSING into car parks spots. I've had a chat about that elsewhere, and the reasons they gave were so senseless I couldn't bother.

    Because when you reverse into a park, everyone can easily see you doing it and they can spend their 15 attempts doing it while holding everyone else up. But when they're uncomfortable reversing back out into traffic there's a lot more blind spots to deal with and more risk of being t-boned if they shoot out and missed seeing a car somewhere.

    That and it's just a trend, monkey see, monkey do. You'll see it in movies because it's not really interesting watching someone jump in a car and slowly reverse out of a car park while looking around the place. It also allows for the boot to be further in the shadows, so they can pull a body/gun/drugs whatever back there to hide it.

    • Moi Too on 22/12/2024 - 15:00
      -3

      When I say I stop on the white line, I mean of course that I stop so that the front of the car is at the line. It's easy for most people to judge where their tyres are sitting. Or maybe it's not so easy, if my observations are right…

      "But when they're uncomfortable reversing back out into traffic there's a lot more blind spots to deal with and more risk of being t-boned if they shoot out and missed seeing a car somewhere."

      I'm just talking about shopping centre customer parking lots, not reversing onto main roads. But there are far more blind spots in shopping centre bays. For a start, every car that's parked on either side of a bay is very likely to have passengers, and those passengers, (kids, oldies, etc), may be slow/quick in getting out of their car. You could be reversing into this closely-bounded area, which is tight enough as is, and then you'll be met with an unexpected pedestrian.

      Reversing out, though, you're moving out of a confined space into an open space. Much less problematic, imo.

      • freefall101 on 22/12/2024 - 15:04

        I'm talking about shopping centre parking lots too. People don't drive slowly around those and I've seen a few crunches in my time.

  • Moi Too on 22/12/2024 - 14:47
    -6

    Reversing into a bay requires far more manoeuvring, I find. I did it once, from necessity, and it was a ***

    And it's far more inconvenient for other drivers. You'll be slowly following a car through a parking lot, both of you looking for an empty bay, when you notice a spot a little way along. You expect the car in front will just pull right in. But no, reverse parking requires that they drive further a little way, to line up the rear of their car with the spot. Trouble is, when they keep going that short distance, you assume they've decided not to take the spot, and you're still close behind them.

    But then they stop, put it in reverse, and you realise that they're going to reverse park. But you're now still close behind them, so you have to back up to let them do their reverse park.

    Right about then, you start thinking of all the swear words you can muster.

    • timthetoolman on 22/12/2024 - 18:33
      +3

      Or…. When you're following someone in a car park and they put their indicator on, you stop?

      Takes 15 seconds to reverse park, then you can drive out safer than reversing out. It's really not hard.

    • tomlikesbeetroot on 24/12/2024 - 22:30

      You call other drivers inexperienced and incompetent, then proceed to admit that you cannot reverse park easily.
      Isn't there a saying about a pot and kettle that fits here?

  • CurlCurl on 22/12/2024 - 15:22
    +9

    Reversing into a bay requires far more manoeuvring, I find. I did it once, from necessity, and it was a ***

    Bad driver alert,

    • Moi Too on 22/12/2024 - 18:00
      -8

      You think *** means "difficult"? Or "a problem"? Or "a mistake?

      Okay, I won't use asterisks any more, since they confuse you.

      I reverse parked once, from necessity, and it was a pain in the butt. Although I performed the manoeuvre perfectly, I was constantly worried that something UNEXPECTED might happen. For example, that a child might jump out of one of the cars parked in the adjoining bays, or that an elderly person with poor eyesight and hearing might open their door. It was a nervous time. And totally unnecessary, if I had simply driven straight ahead in.

      • 1989jdm on 22/12/2024 - 18:34
        +9

        So this is what’s going through the mind of a bad driver when they attempt to reverse park.
        I always wondered, thanks for the insight!

      • Speckled Jim on 23/12/2024 - 12:39

        Dude, you suck. Keep going front-first if you're such a nervous nelly.
        Anyone opening doors into me is paying for their inattention, regardless of age.

      • munecito on 23/12/2024 - 13:26
        +1

        Because the same people that are too distracted to open their doors wouldn't do it if you drive in the parking bay? Hahaha.

        I have seen a few times that two people have reverse into each other when leaving parking spots.

        I haven't seen anyone driving staying into other cars when driving out.

      • nigel deborah on 24/12/2024 - 06:34
        +1

        lol, this is peak delusion. Nothing wrong with a preference for parking one way or another, but writing it up like this just makes you look sad, mate.

      • Euphemistic on 25/12/2024 - 12:36

        You are more likely to encounter stray pedestrians if your car hasnt been moving - ie when you reverse OUT of a space. If you havent yet parked pedestrians are more likely to expect you to keep moving. AND parents will be more aware and look after their kids better.

  • Aust on 22/12/2024 - 18:02

    Back when i was taught to drive, the rule of thumb at traffic lights, stop sign etc was the top of your bonnet should be level with the bottom of the car in front, so in my Falcon, thats about just over a car length.
    I may be closer but generally not further, unless the car in from has been driving erratically or has a P plate sign then i will stay at least a car and a half behind.

    • Protractor on 23/12/2024 - 10:21

      Sitting in normal driving position, about where you can still see where the car in fronts tyres touch the road?

  • someone else on 22/12/2024 - 18:58

    Briefly, a driver has to keep "safe distance" from the car in front. This is subjective and, yes, depends on driver's experience and awareness of surrounding areas, which many SUV drivers in particular seem to lack.

    I do agree with OP that having huge spaces between cars when they are stopped at the traffic lights is unnecessary and affects traffic flow. I can't understand why someone will leave 2-3 meters between cars.

    There is a conversion that I do every day after work… The traffic lights open for 5 seconds, there is barely time for 2 or 3 cars to go before it becomes yellow and red again. Usually there is a queue of 20 cars at any moment, which means that the traffic lights will open about 5 times before anyone joining the queue can turn on that road, particularly late afternoon. If people don't stay immediately behind and aware of the signs, that will take even longer. There is always people who take their 5 or 10s before they notice the green conversion sign (because they are on their phones or distracted by something else), which means they will likely be the only ones turning and everyone else will have to wait for the next green light, which is obviously irritating when you are there for several minutes seeing the lights go red and green several times and people not moving.

    • Moi Too on 22/12/2024 - 19:03

      I've noticed many traffic lights like that. Since they can be easily be adjusted remotely, based on observations of traffic flow, it makes you wonder if the guys at the Centre are asleep, or just having fun seeing how many people they can pss off..

    • someone else on 22/12/2024 - 19:05
      +3

      Re reverse parking, I always reverse when I arrive because I can use the mirrors and see if there is someone behind me, and go slowly, which will slow them down so I can reverse. Reversing when leaving adds more uncertainty and risks that are not always mitigated by the car's camera and signs as people might be rushing/speeding and might not see me even if I'm very slowly and carefully leaving the bay.

      • Moi Too on 22/12/2024 - 20:03
        -6

        My car has no camera but even if it did I wouldn't use it for a second. And I would never use my rear vision mirrors for reversing, either!

        Reversing out does have a risk, mostly to do with damage to the vehicle. That can be fixed.

        But reversing in has the risk of injury/death to pedestrians. That can't be fixed.

        • someone else on 22/12/2024 - 20:05
          +2

          I don't agree, but we can move on and be happy regardless.

    • Protractor on 23/12/2024 - 10:24

      It's subjective so cops have more excuses to pull over drivers, and or ping them, knowing a certain % won't contest the fine.
      (following too closely,failing to maintain a safe distance, etc)

      A bit like the old 'acting suspicious' card reserved for 'special occasions'.

  • AussieDaddy on 22/12/2024 - 19:47

    Some people are simply distracted, whereas others are clueless drivers. I drive for a living, and the amount of people who stop way off the stop line turning right/left is increasing lately, and some of them won't even move forward even after they miss a number of turns (some of the intersections here in SA have sensors under the road, so if there's no weight on the zigzag/white line the lights won't turn green). A number of times I had to leave my vehicle to get their attention.

    • Moi Too on 22/12/2024 - 20:35

      Leave your vehicle?! Well, see, that's what I'm on about. So many plain incompetent and unaware drivers around everywhere today. I just don't understand why it's come to this. Main Roads Departments getting too lenient with borderline applicants? Driving schools passing everyone, just to get the business?

      Whatever it is, it's going to get worse. I pity professional drivers like you who will have to deal with it more and more.

  • 2025 on 22/12/2024 - 19:59
    -2

    The reversing is a pet peeve of mine, it basically forces other road users to give way while they park, realise it wasn’t done right, pull out, straighten up and then slowly creep back in. It’s turned a 5 second job into a 20-30 second wait while they sort their stuff.

    It’s kind of shifted the 30 seconds of giving way that they would need to do if they were reversing out of the park to me when they reverse in. Not very considerate and no f’s given about inconveniencing others.

    Keeping a car length away from the car infront is a bit extreme, I always like to leave just enough space to get around them if I need to, if they’ve broken down or something.

    As for not approaching the white line, yeah well, the amount of accidents that happen in perfect weather on straight stretches of road occupies my thoughts more often than idiots that can’t park on a line.

    • Moi Too on 22/12/2024 - 20:09
      -4

      Exactly. It takes much longer, and from what I've seen, it's harder to do. But yes, the drivers who choose to do it are very often totally unconcerned about who they're keeping waiting.

      Several people have commented that they leave a space behind a car, "in case it breaks down". To me, that's a strange thing to worry about. Maybe back in 1920, when cars routinely broke down every 100 yards, but hardly today, surely?

      • OzzyOzbourne on 22/12/2024 - 23:12
        +1

        Interestingly that's what I was told when learning to drive a truck (albeit in the uk), because it's difficult to reverse a truck out of that situation.
        Mind you, truck drivers seem to be intent on being an inch off your bumper at traffic lights.

  • Ughhh on 22/12/2024 - 20:02
    +1

    One time, I was able to squeeze into the gap this guy left at the lights (he wasn't first at the lights). He left so much space, I was able to straighten my car easily, with more than sufficient space in front incase the car in front broke down, and that driver was able to move forward a bit afterwards. Some people really have zero awareness, and think their yaris is the size of a semi trailer or something.

  • THICKnSLOW on 22/12/2024 - 22:36
    +1

    To avoid domino effect when waiting at the lights, leave some generous space between the front of your car and the car in fronts rear end.

    Happens too often where the car behind me creeps up so far up my ass that I have to inch forward to create the space. Yes that's me who has half a car length in front of me, inching away from your bumsucking proximity.

  • OzzyOzbourne on 22/12/2024 - 23:07
    +1

    Not quite as bad as the cars that stop a meter or so past the line (dangerous for anyone crossing) then are very slow to set off on green which seems common where I live.

    It's also very common for people to be very slow to react to the lights changing to green, big delay in setting off leaving a big gap then suddenly speeding up just before the light changes to red. As we know, due to the crazy way every direction is has to be controlled by lights to remove any need for thought at intersections, the people behind have to wait for a long time for the next cycle.

    It seems that due to this lengthy wait, people lose concentration, look at their phones etc, then react very slowly once the lights change to green.

    It's probably a combination of lack of concentration, lack of spacial awareness and lack of thought for anyone else, which is typical of today's drivers unfortunately.

  • TEER3X on 22/12/2024 - 23:32
    +3

    How is reversing into a carpark spot even up for discussion???

    It's much, much safer exiting the spot when you've reversed into it, and it's also safe to reverse into the spot in the first place because you're already in full view of surrounding traffic.

    • Eeples on 23/12/2024 - 08:31
      +1

      If it’s busy I won’t hold up the world to reverse park.

  • Euphemistic on 22/12/2024 - 23:44
    +1

    Driving instructor told my kids to stop when you can still see the wheels of the car in front. Thats a fairly big gap for some vehicles. I dont like it when they stop well back, but then decide to creep up half way through the wait the stop again. BUT i dont get all worked up about it, its just stuff that happens. In reality if they move off quickly enough it makes stuff all difference to getting through the lights.

    Parking rear in is safer. Mine sites make you do it. You get a better view of the surrounding area as you arrive and park, then you get a better view when you drive out. Less chance of reversing over someone. I prefer it, its getaway parking.

    • pcs1810 on 23/12/2024 - 08:16
      +1

      The "creep up" is what is taught by Services NSW as per their handbook. See attached, pages 12 & 13. https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/roads/licence/guide-to-…

      • Euphemistic on 23/12/2024 - 10:10

        Thats interesting. Not something i recall (from last century). I just find the creep up frustrating.

        Probably link thise pages for OP.

        Reminds me of a time in a queue when the driver in front started brake checking me because i was apparently too close. There was negligible risk of a rear ender due to a line of cars behind us and yet she was flipping out because i was releasing the brakes and rolling down the hill "too close". She really flipped out when i got super close to make a point that i wasnt close before. In hindsight i really shouldnt have escalated, but the red mist…

  • Joda on 22/12/2024 - 23:46

    The reversing stuff - just a guess here - possibly due to changes in vehicles.

    Parked next to bigger cars and tinted windows can make it harder to see other traffic when reversing out.
    Also, driving a car with smaller side windows and wider pillars for airbags, impacting side visibility.

  • ThighHighDemise on 23/12/2024 - 01:02
    +1

    I won't even try to get my head around this trend of everybody REVERSING into car parks spots. I've had a chat about that elsewhere, and the reasons they gave were so senseless I couldn't bother.

    Ok I'll bite.
    Between reversing into a parking spot and going front in I'd find reversing in to be quite a bit safer. For a couple of reasons - namely backing out in amongst all the lifted utes/4x4s and soccer mum suvs that are popular these days is just backing out into a massive blindspot compared to going forward; on top of not needing everyone around you to wait whilst you back out of a spot anyway. If you're able to reverse into a spot competently they'd take about the same amount of time regardless. Anecdotally I've witnessed many-a-people struggle to back out of a spot in the same way people struggle to back in.
    Regarding your concern of backing up into someone whilst reverse parking, this seems like an issue that would also be present if you were front-in parking, particularly as people who front in park tend to swing in quite fast regardless (and would arguably leave less room for reacting compared to backing up into a spot where you're likely to be going slower so as to not hit other crap around you).

    Trouble is, when they keep going that short distance, you assume they've decided not to take the spot, and you're still close behind them.

    Not gonna lie, this sounds like you're following way too close, champ. Most people I've seen indicate or turn on their hazards before they start backing up to avoid this.

    Re: people leaving space at the front of lights, I don't mind it; leaves me with a spot to safely slide into when I/other motorbikes filter to the front of the queue :^)

  • Miss B on 23/12/2024 - 02:02
    +4

    Reversing in is definitely better. There's a much smaller area to keep an eye on while reversing in and with an unimpeded view. The first couple of times I reversed in it took a little longer, but it's almost as quick as driving in once you're used to it.

    I'm more bothered by people who are distracted and take a while to go once the light changes. The worst part is they normally get through while everyone else is stuck waiting.

  • pcs1810 on 23/12/2024 - 08:13
    +1

    OK - This response will annoy a lot of people - (It bugs me that people are taught this way) but in the attached NSW guide to getting your licence , put out by services australia as the "Correct way" to drive… says "

    Maintain space whilst stopped.

    When you are stopped in traffic you must keep one to two car lengths from the vehicle in front to reduce the risk of colliding with it if you are hit from behind. You may move forward to within 1m once other vehicles are stopped behind you and the risk of being hit from behind is reduced".

    What a LOAD OF ….. Drivers doing this would annoy the hell out of me, and would cause each car to shuffle up multiple times.

    Handbook for download is at https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/roads/licence/guide-to-… Quoted section is at bottom of page 12 and top of page 13.

  • Eeples on 23/12/2024 - 08:26

    I hate it when the driver behind me is way close.

    They aren’t going to go (hopefully) until I start moving. So what’s the point?

    I hate it because I think it’s unsafe. Their foot could come of their break and they roll forward and hit me, or, the car behind them nudges them then I get nudged too.

    I wonder if such ‘stationary tailgaters’ ever get rolled back on by manual cars.

    Anyways, I leave about 2m (?) in front of me (not at the line but behind the car in front of me [I want to see their rear tyres on the road] so I can roll forward a bit when I get ‘stationary tailgated’. (Roll forward just a tiny bit… too much and I get tailgated again).

    I used to think drivers ‘stationary tailgated’ did it to be intimidating. But, I’m of the opinion nowadays that most drivers are just inattentive and uncaring and thoughtless generally concerning all aspects of their driving.

    • LFO on 23/12/2024 - 10:46
      -1

      So what’s the point?

      The bigger the spaces between cars the slower/lengthier the queue will move when a green light comes on.
      Simples.

      I used to think drivers ‘stationary tailgated’ did it to be intimidating.

      Incorrect. They do it as it is common sense. Notice European driving environment as a revealing guide.

      • Tech5 on 23/12/2024 - 11:16
        -2

        No you are incorrect. The bigger the space, the fast the line moves. They ran a study on it:

        When you leave no space, one car moves and creates space, before another will move and create space, before another.
        If people left a certain amount of space, literally every car could start moving at the same time in a perfect world.

        https://phys.org/news/2017-11-buffer-bumper-contradicts-traf…

        • LFO on 23/12/2024 - 14:33

          They ran a study on it:

          Obviously flawed for this purpose..

          Ignore what they tell/told you:

          Picture a line with ten cars/vehicles unrealistically touching each another. Say it will be 50 meters long. Car/vehicle 11 needs to travel ~50 meters.

          Now picture a line with ten cars/vehicles leaving 1.5 meters gap between each. Say it will be 63.5 meters long. Car/vehicle 11 needs to travel ~63.5 meters.

          *[63.5 meters = (9 cars/vehicles * 1.5 meters gap) + 10 cars 50 meters.]

          In busy, congested cities the gap will be is minimal otherwise will overflow to the next set of lights. Think Europe.

          If there is a future of self driving cars the autonomous cars will leave a minmal gap and start moving in unison (like carriages in a train). No wasted spaces.

          • Tech5 on 23/12/2024 - 15:43

            @LFO: Mate what are you even saying. The link literally explains it.

            It’s not distance travelled. It’s about reaction time.

            You picked a very specific scenario that only occurs in the CBD grid during peakhour. The study applies for every other situation

          • nigel deborah on 24/12/2024 - 06:41

            @LFO: This is actually still worse for the same reason, as long as the lights are reasonably synchronised, which they normally are in the busy areas of a CBD. Yes, fewer cars can fit in each intersection block, but reducing/avoiding the domino effect on light changes significantly outweighs it.

            Assuming the gaps are reasonable though, after a certain point it certainly is diminishing returns.

      • Eeples on 23/12/2024 - 23:30

        The bigger the spaces between cars the slower/lengthier the queue will move when a green light comes on

        No. The cars just don’t move all at once. Each waits until the car in front moves.

        They do it as it is common sense

        They do it because they are inattentive, uncaring (of the dangers of being rear ended or rolled back on), and thoughtless (of the dangers of being rear ended or rolled back on).

  • Catzilla on 23/12/2024 - 08:40

    Why the hatred for reverse parking? I find it much easier to reverse park and then have a good view as I'm leaving. Particularly these days when more and more people own penis compensatory vehicles and I can't see anything until my car's bum is out in the line of fire.

    • Eeples on 23/12/2024 - 23:31

      The hate is because at busy times you are holding up the world.

  • bobwokeup on 23/12/2024 - 09:31
    +1

    Yep I hate it. Generally speaking it’s people who didn’t get there licence here.

  • mjuice7 on 23/12/2024 - 09:32

    thx for the good belly laugh.

  • IndigoHarlequin on 23/12/2024 - 09:34
    +3

    As a previous driver instructor and assessor in NSW, it sounds like people are driving the way they have been taught.

    You must stop behind the unbroken white line. If any part of your car extends over it, you will fail. And, while you are required to be within one car length of the stop line at a stop sign, there is no requirement at lights as they are a controlled stop. The driver is not making the decision about when to move.

    At traffic lights, you are required to maintain at least one car length between yourself and other stationary traffic if you are the last in the line. If more vehicles pull up behind you, you can creep forward. This is not a fail item, but an error, however if the assessment route has many traffic lights, and it happened often, it could add up to a fail in points.

    • Grunntt on 23/12/2024 - 11:05
      +1

      As a previous driver instructor and assessor in NSW,

      Thank you for doing what's become less frequent around here - posting the actual fact, and not posting an opinion as though it's a fact.

  • shanakatak on 23/12/2024 - 09:48

    As a bike rider, I for one love when drivers leave an entire car length before the solid white line. Gives me plenty of room after I filter through the traffic.

  • Shame on 23/12/2024 - 10:17
    +2

    I like to tailgate people and then stay 4 car spaces behind them at the lights just to confuse them

    • Protractor on 23/12/2024 - 10:38
      +1

      Are you a cop?

      • Shame on 23/12/2024 - 10:46

        lol

  • The Hawk on 23/12/2024 - 10:27
    +1

    I've heard that in recent years people are taught they need to be able to see the line over the bonnet. Same story for the car in front, gotta see the tyres.
    Is it true? Who knows, but it fits what we are seeing.

  • Protractor on 23/12/2024 - 10:38
    +1

    If there's other cars behind you and you can park fwd, park fwd. If you are clever enough to reverse park, you'll have no dramas reversing out.
    Who am I kidding, consider other ppl? LOL

  • LFO on 23/12/2024 - 10:39
    +1

    so many INCOMPETENT and INEXPERIENCED drivers around today,

    Not just today but since ever.

    Would not improve.
    Join them instead.
    Get a monster SUV/pickup/4X4 and cocoon yourself from the real world :-)

  • Tech5 on 23/12/2024 - 11:14
    +1

    Do you realise that traffic at stop lights move slower because how tight everyone is next to each other?

    When you leave no space, one car moves and creates space, before another will move and create space, before another.
    If people left a certain amount of space, literally every car could start moving at the same time in a perfect world.

    I can literally give you the link for a study they ran on it: https://phys.org/news/2017-11-buffer-bumper-contradicts-traf…

    And not just that, but it results in multi car rear-end collisions if one car at the back is hit

    • LFO on 23/12/2024 - 16:54

      traffic at stop lights move slower because

      It is unlikely you'll change your opinion but some time back it was discussed in Whirlpool.
      And someone posted a video: https://youtu.be/NB8wPbr6s1w?si=xSQxlpulGsJenpx

      It shows some cars rocketing on green, others not that much and a lazy sod moving as slow as possible.
      Nothing to do with gaps.

      But all good, we'll agree to disagree.

      By the way, a 7 years old link to an "study" done by perfect nobodies means nothing to me. Common sense and what I see does.

      Safe driving.

  • DazMon on 23/12/2024 - 11:46
    +1

    I see this a lot around my area, Springvale, not stopped at the line, stopping with a huge gap in front for no real reason, crawling forward whilst waiting for the green light, sometimes not taking off when its turned green and receiving a toot. If you do that at a turn lane you will not trigger the sensor, you will not get a green arrow.
    We've got a LOT of good cars with bad drivers around here.

  • Purp on 23/12/2024 - 12:17

    You think you should ride up the ass of a car in front of you at the lights?

    You are a terrible driver.

    You know what happens when you don't leave a gap in front and you get rear ended? You're the one liable when you get pushed into the car in front of you.

  • Nuggies on 23/12/2024 - 12:28
    +1

    Is this a troll post?

    Have you ever seen someone get hit from behind and then they end up going into the car infront of them? Or worse, seen someone get hit from behind pushing their car into the middle of an intersection or into a pedestrian.

    It’s like people like myself when at the front of the line proceed slowly into the intersection whilst also looking left and right to make sure some idiot isn’t running a red light and about to crash into them.

    You are the idiot

  • Rockets84 on 23/12/2024 - 13:00
    +1

    Some driving schools teach their students to leave a gap between their car and the line at the intersection in case they get rearended and are less likely to be pushed into the intersection where there's potential to hit by other cars. You should be able to see the tyres of the car in front when stopped behind them and with the large number of SUV's on the road with high bonnets this means this distance will increase, again taught by many driving schools. Reverse parking is mandatory requirement as part of OH&S at many workplaces now, especially mine sites. I prefer to reverse park these days just becasue it's much easier to see traffic when trying to pull out of a parking bay.

  • Lexx-luthor on 23/12/2024 - 13:02

    This is why you leave a gap at traffic lights.
    https://youtu.be/9alQjJMYq6Q

  • nobro25 on 23/12/2024 - 13:32

    1. If a person leaves a huge gap and I'm in the adjacent lane I'll just cut into it. That's pretty standard.

    2. Reversing in a car spot takes almost no time to park and getting out is much easier.

    Enough said.

  • JakeyJooJoo on 23/12/2024 - 14:47

    Re your parking comments, it's about pedestrian safety. The stats don't lie, the significant majority of fatalities in car parks come from people reversing out of their car park spot over people and children on foot. This is rarely an issue reversing in to a spot.

    I used to get annoyed at reverse parkers until I learnt that information, now I'm cool with them doing it.
    Personally I still drive in nose first about 95% of the time, and am even more careful when reversing out now.

    Think about that… I'd expect it to change your view.

  • yamahamoto on 23/12/2024 - 15:30
    +1

    This is a problem on turning lane. Often the lane is long enough to have 5-6 cars without spill into the next lane blocking traffic. With cars living bigger space between them will block traffic. I hate to see it but I thought I was the impatient one.

  • dr on 23/12/2024 - 17:18

    OP your profile states that you are in QLD, the worst state for the number of tailgating incidents based on few internet sources. So, it seems that you would prefer bumper to bumper tailgating from the traffic lights, right?

  • xrayed giraffe on 23/12/2024 - 17:26

    Anyone who "stop(s) on the broad white line, which is painted on the road" must be an "INCOMPETENT and INEXPERIENCED driver(s)" because under the law that is illegal.
    "When you approach a ‘Stop’ sign and ‘Stop’ line (single unbroken line), you must come to a complete stop. You must stop before the line, and as close as possible to the line".

    https://www.nsw.gov.au/driving-boating-and-transport/roads-s…

  • Liamhos08 on 23/12/2024 - 19:09

    I pull upto the line, others don't but it doesn't really bother me unless at an arrow & they don't trigger the sensor.

    I was taught when stopping in traffic you should be able to see where the rear tyres of the vehicle in front of you contact the road. This is meant to give you a safe distance & prevent you going into the vehicle in front if you're rear ended.

    I sometimes reverse into a park depending on circumstances, I find it eaiser to make sure I'm central & parallel to the lines by using the side mirrors. If you can actually drive, it doesn't take much longer than driving in. It's also eaiser to pull out unless you're surrounded by SUVs/4X4s, then it's hazardous getting out either way.

  • p1 ama on 23/12/2024 - 19:37
    +1

    I won't even try to get my head around this trend of everybody REVERSING into car parks spots. I've had a chat about that elsewhere, and the reasons they gave were so senseless I couldn't bother.

    This is one I'm willing to go and take a bat for. Reversing into parking spots is significantly safer than having to reverse out of parking spots.

    In general - (i) reversing is more dangerous than going straight, (ii) moving traffic is more dangerous than stationary cars. As such, it logically follows that reversing into a parking spot, where the cars next to you are stationary and later moving forward to exit the parking spot into moving traffic is significantly safer than putting your nose in and later reversing out into moving traffic.

    Examples of accidents I have personally seen from people reversing out of parking spots include not seeing a car coming from the opposite direction, not seeing pedestrians directly behind or in blindspots, and many others. I have never seen a dangerous accident from someone reversing into a parking spot, where the worst thing that can happen is swiping the adjacent car or backing up too far into the car behind, which (given the slow speeds) are not dangerous.

    This is not to mention the cases where reversing into a parking spot is the only option due to the design of the carpark (if you've ever parked in tight inner-city paid carparks, you would know the exact spots), or those parking spaces which become heavily congested at exit time, which means if you are trying to reverse out, nobody would ever let you out, whereas if you're exiting forward, then you can edge your nose out and squeeze into the moving traffic.

    • CommuterPolluter on 23/12/2024 - 21:24

      Probably a carryover from the many industrial facilities which mandate this. I’ve never met anybody implementing the requirement who can justify it as robustly at you have, so I’m doubtful it’s the impetus.

      One story goes that it was mandated at Esso sites nominally to facilitate escape in an emergency. It’s said it was actually to provide plausible explanations for shopping center prangs of company vehicles.

  • CommuterPolluter on 23/12/2024 - 21:19

    Sometimes I park a bit back so I can have a rolling start when the light goes green. It helps me to really zip along.

    Don’t do it in heavy traffic obviously.

    • Eeples on 23/12/2024 - 23:35

      It’s sometimes best not to accelerate into a newly turned green light as it provides little time to check for red light runners.

  • Cannulator on 23/12/2024 - 21:56
    +2

    You stop before the white line, watch for the idiot behind you then ease forward as they slam to a stop.- you then avoid being shunted into an intersection.

    If you cannot see the bottom of the tyres of the car in front of you, you are too close.

  • geekcohen on 24/12/2024 - 06:15
    +2

    I won't even try to get my head around this trend of everybody REVERSING into car parks spots

    Because ITS EASIER to leave and get out. Less chance of reversing into others when leaving.

  • zathras on 24/12/2024 - 10:31

    OP, talk to your local GP, you can get a referral to a psychologist who can help.

    They are experts who understand all the "INEXPERIENCED" drivers in the world and their "INCOMPETENT" driving habits.
    There is no way to fix all the crazy drivers, but with the right coping strategies you'll be able deal with all their "weirdness".

  • prodrome on 24/12/2024 - 11:30

    These road terrorists must be stopped!

  • S Baldrick on 24/12/2024 - 12:41
    +1

    If you drive a manual, you'll appreciate others leaving a little gap when at the lights.

  • miguelsanchez on 24/12/2024 - 14:13

    I'm pleased for you that this is what you've decided to dedicate a fair portion of your day to posting. You must have very few actual problems in life.

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