Hi, I was wondering if anyone has been rostered on call during a period they are on annual leave?
The line of work I am in sees me on call from time to time and it got me thinking if it can happen in Australia where you're on holidays and you must keep your phone on you to respond to after hours issues?
Usually what comes with on call is that you're not permitted to imbibe whilst on call however when on holidays such a restriction seems unreasonable.
You cannot be on-call AND on annual leave at the same time.
https://library.fairwork.gov.au/viewer/?krn=K600127
Being on-call requires a set period to be pre-agreed where you agree to be available by your phone, unimpaired and potentially ready to jump to site/do work/whatever, if required. You cannot be perpetually on-call all year long and you should not be on-call when on booked annual leave (unless super critical emergency maybe in which case you get AL days back).
Best post I've ever seen on OzBargain. Thank you.
Oh that is why HR got angry at my colleague.
Funny enough I did that a few times and they never said anything - maybe it didn't come to their attention or slipped under the radar.
I always thought that leave covers business hours (or your normal working hours) so technically you can be on leave and on call at the same time provided you can ignore calls during business hours.
Boss has not said much when i mentioned it a while back. and its coming up fairly quickly. I was thinking of just covering it but what bothers me is that the place I have booked is very expensive and its the last thing i will be wanting to do waking up at all hours of the night responding to issues, not being able to go out with the rest of the family to restaurants, not really being able to go swimming with my brothers or anything because I need to be available.
Look at the link above. It's law…. You can't be on call while on AL.
if you do it once, the expectation changes from management and they will think you will do it everytime
Can’t you swap with colleagues?
You want to swap with one of your colleagues. It's common thing, but make sure it's fair for them :D. If they take your weekend roster, you should do the same.
Boss needs to look up right to disconnect laws.
Your Union will be able to assist you with this matter
No union is required. Just notify the boss (or HR if you prefer) that it is not possible/legal to be 'on call' while on annual leave. It is not even a vaguely logical suggestion; it's ludicrous.
What if it is a major problem and you have to go into the office? Useless request to be on call by the employer too.
If the service being provided is that critical, there should not be a reliance on a single person. Annual leave is annual leave. Something breaks, call the next person up.
this has absolutely nothing to do with being on call, which is an agreement where the OP will be compensated for having "the bat phone" and being available.
Sounds like OP has booked AL for a period of time when they are rostered to be on call and hasn't realised it until now.
Re:
'Sounds like OP has booked AL for a period of time when they are rostered to be on call and hasn't realised it until now.'
According to the OP's post it was the other way around; he/she booked annual leave, then was rostered to be on call during that period when they were on annual leave.
Even if he was rostered to be on call, once his leave was approved that no longer applies, just like he no longer needs to show up at the office when on leave.
Sounds like OP's boss has approved AL for a period of time when they are rostered to be on call and hasn't realised it until now.
No you cannot be on call and on AL at the same time. The link is already posted above.
I dealt with alot of workplace BS in my time and when someone is on AL, this is your time and you have the right to switch off work.
The whole point of AL is to switch off and not do any work related duties.
It has nothing to do with your boss, job, policies, industry etc .. it's literally the law. Nothing can overwrite the law.
I have had this leave booked for over 6 months. the on call roster only gets extended, planned every 3 months. the on call roster wasn't even visible this far ahead when i booked my leave and I also have no input into the roster. so how did I F up exactly?
at my previous employer i was asked to remote in of a morning when on holidays to complete reporting for them because they didn't have anyone willing to do it. I assumed it was legal for an employer to do it.
Get in contact with your previous employer and tell them you are now aware they broke workplace law. Get them to convert your annual leave back to days worked and seek a payout of your unused annual leave. Winning. Enjoy the extra spending money on your upcoming holiday swimming with your brothers.
Can you swap roster with someone else? Most work will requires you to organise that yourself
@bazzybtec: You don't have to bite the bullet.
If you booked the annual leave 6 months ago and the On-Call roster was published 3 months ago it isn't your problem to manage your supervisor's stuff-up.
Can you swap roster with someone else? Most work will requires you to organise that yourself
nah - that's what 'managers' are for - they organise the roster(s), they're the ones to ring around and organise replacements.
If you do it this time, they will expect it Every. Single. Time. You booked your leave well before the roster was released. Not your problem.
I have had this leave booked for over 6 months. the on call roster only gets extended, planned every 3 months. the on call roster wasn't even visible this far ahead when i booked my leave and I also have no input into the roster. so how did I F up exactly?
By not giving us that information? How was I supposed to know this was the situation when you omitted that from your post. lol
Well then ask for clarification if you have to before assuming some random shit you silly goose.
Makes no difference either way. If you are rostered to be on call then take annual leave you are no longer on call. The leave was approved, up to the team/manager to figure out who is going on call. Cannot believe anyone would suggest otherwise. Obviously if it was last minute your supervisor might stipulate that for them to be able to approve the leave you need to find someone to take on call but that clearly didn't happen.
The only thing I find harder to believe is the OP having such a hard time telling his team that a reshuffle of the on call is needed. In what kind of dysfunctional work place is this so hard?
Even if this was the sequence of events (which OP has clarified it is not), if leave is approved, should that not automatically mean work is cancelled?
That has been the case everywhere I have worked. If the boss approves my leave, logic would dictate my work (and therefore on call, which is work), is cancelled as well.
I have answered the phone on leave, but do you have to answer? NO, will you get in trouble not answering the phone? NO
I'm not confident that there would be no consequences. When the phone rings its usually in response to an outage. If the on call is routed to my number at that time and i don't answer it the systems outage would be prolonged causing widespread issues for the company, and in that event the first question would be, who's shift was the on call roster with, followed by they failed to do their job and answer the phone. the fact annual leave was involved would be further from their mind
The same applies to me, but before I goes on leave, myself and boss organise someone else who can cover for me. So this is the question you need to check with your boss, not us.
THB they don't sound very competent, if they want the phone answered during an outage then leave should be front of mind, i.e. it's pretty obvious you don't roster on someone who is on leave.
It sounds like OP works in a place with bad management and no contingency plan.
That sounds like a them problem. And if they fired you over it, a fun trip to the FWC.
If you tell your boss you’re on annual leave and won’t be taking calls, it’s now your bosses problem to sort out.
While I agree it’s easier to suck it up and deal with it, you should be either paid for being on call or disconnect and you’re going to have to say something if you want your legal rights upheld.
this is the problem.. you need to tell your boss that they need to find someone else. you're on annual leave that they approved.
Well that's why you need to address this issue now, and make sure your not going to be getting any calls on holiday.
Leaving things as they are and just ignoring the calls would be a terrible idea.
No this is the same bullshit that is parroted in our space.
Who gives a shit about the outage? Who should give a shit? Those who are responsible for maintaining that contract/agreement and keeping the customer happy, not yourself, presumably the tech.
When your work hours are over you leave and don't give it a second thought till you're back in the office. Your employer is shit house if they expect you to answer calls on leave and this isn't acceptable.
FWIW, I've had an ex employer call me when I was on leave a few times and it's always prefaced with (profanity) sorry to bug you but can you clarify XYZ or point me in the right direction here. Not "remote in".
It's a job at the end of the day, your mental health comes first. If this job doesn't come to the party and continually messes you around I'm not saying do something drastic, but document everything and jump ship when you find alternative employment and then take them to fairwork if you feel like it.
You don’t have a backup team member?
Look, you're making this your problem. This is your employers problem. The law is on your side. Document everything about this, but when you're on leave, you're not on call, and under zero obligation to answer your phone.
You can't be on annual leave and do unpaid work at the same time. If your employer wants you to work when you're on leave then they should pay you and you apply for anothet AL. If they insist you do work related phone calls while on leave then contact your union rep.
Stuff that OP. Go on leave, turn your phone off and don't even think about work at all. But I guess the right thing to do is tell your employer now that you won't be on call for that period as you will be on leave and they will need to find someone else to be on call.
Simple, you tell the boss you’d be happy to be on call but the workplace needs to reimburse you for the loss in money you spent booking the holiday. They can read between the lines and will know exactly what you mean.
Just keep bugging your boss about it until he confirms the roster has been changed. If it still isn't done and your phone rings while on holiday give the caller your bosses number.
its Australia…turn the phone off
TIme to find a new job that has no on call.
Let the person who did the on call roster know that they need to change it as they have rostered you on while you will be on leave, which you scheduled six months ago. Be clear that you will not be answering your phone on leave, so if they want someone to be on call during that period they will need to change the roster. Put it all in writing.
If they do call while you are on holiday, don't answer the phone. Enjoy your trip, you deserve it!
Send a nice email to whoever does the roster and your supervisor that they have made a mistake and rostered you on call while on annual leave. Ask them to confirm that it will be corrected before you go on annual leave as you would not like to see the company reputation suffer when the on call phone is not answered.
I feel restored whenever I take leave
Leave your company phone with HR
Sadly we use our own personal phones for this. the on call number just gets redirected. and i use my phone NFC to pay for food and services
lol block the on call number temporarily
Id expect that if OP is using their personal number while theyre on call, it would be the case that they could get calls from a range of different departments/teams/managers to resolve the issue).
Its a side question: but I'd be curious what the on call set up os in OPs workplace. Do they get paid an allowance/penalty per on call shift (and then paid for any time they're called in/dialled in? Id be curious how payroll would handle that if its for a time you're on annual leave.
Unless of couse the "leave" is for some days before/after public holidays and OP is rostered to be on call on those public holidays.
@ArjaytheGuy: From what they described I possibly incorrectly assumed it was just an IVR that the client calls into, pushes through to out of hours and routes to the techs 1 by 1 till someone picks up.
At least that's how most places I've seen who take advantage of their staff seem to operate.
I've done the hard work for you OP. Just tell the boss you will be busy swimming with your brothers here (x marks the spot)
Just be a big boy/girl/prefer not to say and talk to your boss. Tell them they have made a mistake with the rostering and put you on call while on leave…. simples!
I know some people feel like they have to go above and beyond in service to their employer - you seem like one of these people but, They are not gonna let you go swimming with your brothers and go out to restaraunts with your family when your holiday is over and you are mid shift so why would you let them make you perform work duties while you're mid holiday?
The other part of this is… if you are so critical and irreplaceable to the company… they need to know coz you could be hit by a bus tomorrow and they need to understand the impact of this on their business. You going on leave and being unreachable/unavailable is like the drill for if this happens.
Do yourself a favor and do the company a favor and go on holidays with the full mutual understanding that you won't be doing any work and will be unreachable.
yes i mentioned it again this morning and the subject got evaded.
Email the appropriate people so you have a record of conversation. Say you need it resolved by 5pm (insert date to here).
A passing conversation outside the toilet door will not suffice.
Was via Teams. there is a record of the conversation
@bazzybtec: Organisations often put retention policies on teams to ensure ephemeral data like chat doesn't hang around forever. Either screenshot it and save to a safe place or send an email and CC in your private email address.
Don't mention it, put it in an email that you are not going to be available to be on call while on leave, period
Silence means yes.
'mentioned it' … Come on mate it's not a thing to 'mention' you just make a statement, 'I am on leave and won't be on call.'
Out of curiosity, what industry/type of business do you work in?
Information Technology, and working for an MSP
Why would a Member of the Scottish Parliament have such a need?
I knew you were at an MSP before you even said it.
If it happens to be in Melbourne….perhaps we worked for the same employer at some stage. Sounds familiar but it's not exactly an uncommon tune in this industry.
You cannot be at work when on leave, and that includes being on call.
Talk to your boss about it, ASAP.
Best case is they swap your roster with someone else.
While I understand you've had the leave booked for 6 months, managers aren't gonna remember the exact date you booked leave for 6 months ago. Talk to them and come to an agreement instead of just not picking up the phone when it rings.
You also haven't said when the leave is, just that it is coming up?
in like 2 weeks
lolwut
That is more than enough time to talk to manager and find a replacement.
yeah as i mentioned I have already and nothing has come of it. I did again and was told to leave it with them so i guess will see what happens. however usually from my experience when they say that about things it means "we will look like we are doing something so you don't ask again and forget about it"
@bazzybtec: Whenever something important like this comes up in a verbal discussion, ALWAYS follow up with a written email summarising the conversation so that it's in writing so it cannot be ignored and there's an audit trail.
The ADF staff can be called back at any time. They have an entitlement to a limited number of days where they can get special permission to be be exempt during that period.
Otherwise, it's can be called at any time. My step-brother used to be called all the time - even on his honeymoon when he had the exemption
The frustrating thing was he would be called in the middle of the night at times (not while away) and get there to find it wasn't anything extraordinary. It was basically a drill or practice getting used to the unexpected. Turned out his next post was to be prepped for overseas duty so really it was a gradual process to get ready for active service where you are required to be on the ball 24/7.
Just use the old no reception excuse. 2ndly, go to Bunnings and buy a bag of concrete.
Isn't it the boss's job to manage the staff ? This includes co-ordinating rosters with AL. I'd say you've done your best to highlight the conflict - now let your boss do his/her job otherwise it's his/her failure if shit hits the fan while you're away taking a well earned and legally entitled break from work. Switch your phone off - it's a no brainer for me.
If they dont do anything,
forward your personal number to your boss's phone.
Pretty sure by the 3rd call, he will have someone else rostered on for you.
OP, I had this exact issue.
My boss rostered me on-call on the sunday of my last week of annual leave but my boss's boss confirmed that I was entitled to 7 days "off," i.e. 5 weekdays you're compensated for and the weekend.
If you have any issues, consult a lawyer re: the definition of 1 week of annual leave.
Best bet would be to cancel your bookings and stay home. Also swing by the office every couple of days. Just think if you were Homer Simpson what would you do.
That would loose thousands of dollars
Nothing, his colleagues cover for him anyway.
The right to disconnect laws, From the Fairwork Ombudsman webpage "Eligible employees will have the right to refuse employer or third-party contact outside of working hours."
This came into effect on 24/08/2024 for non-small business employers.
https://www.fairwork.gov.au/about-us/workplace-laws/legislat…
As everyone has said, annual leave is annual leave. They have no right to contact you during this time, by law.
Switch your phone off and enjoy your leave. Good luck to them if they try to make an issue of it when you get back, and you mention the Ombudsman.
BTW, I work in the same industry and have had a similar issue with being contacted. My standard answer was "I'm on leave, talk to my boss or equivalent who isn't."
You are either on call or on leave, can't be both.
the old el paso taco girl will be disappointed
.
Send an email marking it as a appointment reminder for the date you start your leaves so you have a written trail. Teams messages sometimes may not be sufficient
Swap oncall day with another colleague
"Dear Boss / HR
I notice that you have me rostered on for call whilst I am on planned & approved annual leave.
I will be away from home during this time, and mobile coverage may not be available ay my holiday location"
In a previous job, I was on-call during a Christmas standdown (which was taken as annual leave). I worked out compensation with the boss (it was a significant percentage of my salary at the time).
These days, if I get an out-of-hours phone call, I ask one question: "Is this an emergency that requires an overtime call-out". If the answer is no, I say something like, "I'll look into it when I'm back at the office", and hang up.
The Trouble is that its based on the ticket priority and when a ticket priority 1 comes through that immediately and automatically comes through to the phone and generates an alert through a 3rd party app and if you acknowledge and the incident and then don't deal with the ticket behind it then it alerts every hour until the priority is dropped or the ticket closed out. and a number of these are generated from automated systems. example a customers remote desktop server reboots or has a disk reaches capacity that automatically triggers a p1 ticket for investigation.
You don’t need those kind of interruptions while on holiday. Simply tell your boss via email that they’ve made a mistake and due to your annual leave you can’t be on call.
@tikei: I know right imagine how it is for the OP having suggestions to get someone else to do it when that isn't in my power. Or to send an email to the boss when i have already done that. or to just ignore the phone when doing that will potentially if not result in my dismissal then at the very least limit my career progression.
and before you say they cant legally sack me for ignoring the phone with the right to disconnect laws its not hard to get around that. all you have to do to get around that is to put someone on a performance improvement plan with trumped up vague complaints and then make the goals unachievable then claim they haven't met them. I have seen that done to people before.
I would likely think the issue is the right to disconnect laws that are making it that the company can't just unload this responsibility onto someone else otherwise they would have just done that.
Its also not the first time i have had to dial into a meeting for work before, When i have had to dial into a meeting when i was on leave to present work for change approval that will be happening in the following week when i returned, however that was just a single 1 hour meeting. this is going to impact the entire holiday because it means i cant as i said above drink alcohol, I can't go swimming with my brothers, I can't really go to a restaurant. in fact thinking about it the actual location i am going takes more than the 1 hour distance I am allowed to be from work so the comment above about having to cancel is actually not far from reality.
and yes i can bring it up with fair works. and yes they would probably rule against the company but what also happens with fair works is their decisions from my understanding are a matter for public record and if my name was put against action being taken against an employer how likely do you think i would be to get another job? i would be too high risk for any company to want to employ me because I was the guy that went to fair works.
it is because of this that it is great in theory to have all these laws in place but in the end the employer always wins because the employer always knows that the threat of loosing ones job will mean people will be compliant with their wishes.
as i said above. i will wait and see what the boss says. its also been pointed out that there is about 2 weeks to go until i'm on leave so he has until then to sort it out. I also don't want to push him to hard about it because its just as easy for him to say, ok your right you cant be on call while on leave so i am canceling your leave
https://www.fairwork.gov.au/leave/annual-leave/taking-annual…
"Cancelling annual leave
Employers or employees may want to cancel approved annual leave in some situations.
For example, an employer may want to cancel an employee’s leave because the business is busier than usual and they need more staff working.
An employer or an employee can only cancel approved annual leave if the cancellation isn’t unreasonable.
Awards, enterprise agreements, employment contracts and workplace policies may have extra rules about cancelling approved annual leave. Make sure you check what applies to you."
The employer may consider that canceling the leave is the better option if i back them into a corner because as mentioned above you can't be on leave and on call at the same time. and it wouldn't be considered unreasonable for that very reason.
so being demanding with my employer is playing with fire
@bazzybtec: You’re not the only employee. Cancelling your leave, simply to provide on call coverage, when you have paid for accomodation, would no doubt be unreasonable, especially when other staff are available.
You haven’t indicated if you’re formally on the Business Equipment Award, (or another one), they have provisions separate to the act.
If you are on that award, then not all the advice about “right to disconnect” will be applicable, because the award mentions that the right to disconnect does not apply while you are being paid to be on standby. Eg you are on annual leave 9-5 but you would be on standby overnight and after hours as you mention at the top.
FWC decisions can be public, but they won’t pursue employers every time. They weigh up the evidence available, the likelihood of a successful outcome, and other factors before deciding to proceed. The advice to simply call Fair Work and let them sort it out doesn’t always accomplish the results one would hope for.
Some employers will view past successful challenges against previous management in a favourable manner. It demonstrates integrity and honesty, and the willingness to do “what’s right”. Do you not call out issues in your customer environments every day?
If you do not wish to stir the pot with the boss in fear of retribution or punishment, maybe follow up with the boss in a few days with a simple question: who’s covering the shift while I’m on leave?
Failing that, can you ask the other people on the roster if they wanna swap or just do it? Perhaps offer a sweetener, like if theirs comes up over Xmas you’ll do it? Or if you let them take your shift altogether, they might actually enjoy the extra cash from another shift?
In a previous job, I was on-call during a Christmas standdown (which was taken as annual leave).
I once had a similar situation. We pushed back on the basis that on-call days required us to be within a reasonable distance of our workstations and not inebriated, which really restricts what you can do (especially over xmas). We ultimately got the days off without needing to take leave, plus on-call allowances and call out fees. So wasn't a bad deal if you didn't have anything else on.
What did your boss say?