Hi, I was wondering if anyone has been rostered on call during a period they are on annual leave?
The line of work I am in sees me on call from time to time and it got me thinking if it can happen in Australia where you're on holidays and you must keep your phone on you to respond to after hours issues?
Usually what comes with on call is that you're not permitted to imbibe whilst on call however when on holidays such a restriction seems unreasonable.
You don’t need those kind of interruptions while on holiday. Simply tell your boss via email that they’ve made a mistake and due to your annual leave you can’t be on call.
@tikei: I know right imagine how it is for the OP having suggestions to get someone else to do it when that isn't in my power. Or to send an email to the boss when i have already done that. or to just ignore the phone when doing that will potentially if not result in my dismissal then at the very least limit my career progression.
and before you say they cant legally sack me for ignoring the phone with the right to disconnect laws its not hard to get around that. all you have to do to get around that is to put someone on a performance improvement plan with trumped up vague complaints and then make the goals unachievable then claim they haven't met them. I have seen that done to people before.
I would likely think the issue is the right to disconnect laws that are making it that the company can't just unload this responsibility onto someone else otherwise they would have just done that.
Its also not the first time i have had to dial into a meeting for work before, When i have had to dial into a meeting when i was on leave to present work for change approval that will be happening in the following week when i returned, however that was just a single 1 hour meeting. this is going to impact the entire holiday because it means i cant as i said above drink alcohol, I can't go swimming with my brothers, I can't really go to a restaurant. in fact thinking about it the actual location i am going takes more than the 1 hour distance I am allowed to be from work so the comment above about having to cancel is actually not far from reality.
and yes i can bring it up with fair works. and yes they would probably rule against the company but what also happens with fair works is their decisions from my understanding are a matter for public record and if my name was put against action being taken against an employer how likely do you think i would be to get another job? i would be too high risk for any company to want to employ me because I was the guy that went to fair works.
it is because of this that it is great in theory to have all these laws in place but in the end the employer always wins because the employer always knows that the threat of loosing ones job will mean people will be compliant with their wishes.
as i said above. i will wait and see what the boss says. its also been pointed out that there is about 2 weeks to go until i'm on leave so he has until then to sort it out. I also don't want to push him to hard about it because its just as easy for him to say, ok your right you cant be on call while on leave so i am canceling your leave
https://www.fairwork.gov.au/leave/annual-leave/taking-annual…
"Cancelling annual leave
Employers or employees may want to cancel approved annual leave in some situations.
For example, an employer may want to cancel an employee’s leave because the business is busier than usual and they need more staff working.
An employer or an employee can only cancel approved annual leave if the cancellation isn’t unreasonable.
Awards, enterprise agreements, employment contracts and workplace policies may have extra rules about cancelling approved annual leave. Make sure you check what applies to you."
The employer may consider that canceling the leave is the better option if i back them into a corner because as mentioned above you can't be on leave and on call at the same time. and it wouldn't be considered unreasonable for that very reason.
so being demanding with my employer is playing with fire
@bazzybtec: You’re not the only employee. Cancelling your leave, simply to provide on call coverage, when you have paid for accomodation, would no doubt be unreasonable, especially when other staff are available.
You haven’t indicated if you’re formally on the Business Equipment Award, (or another one), they have provisions separate to the act.
If you are on that award, then not all the advice about “right to disconnect” will be applicable, because the award mentions that the right to disconnect does not apply while you are being paid to be on standby. Eg you are on annual leave 9-5 but you would be on standby overnight and after hours as you mention at the top.
FWC decisions can be public, but they won’t pursue employers every time. They weigh up the evidence available, the likelihood of a successful outcome, and other factors before deciding to proceed. The advice to simply call Fair Work and let them sort it out doesn’t always accomplish the results one would hope for.
Some employers will view past successful challenges against previous management in a favourable manner. It demonstrates integrity and honesty, and the willingness to do “what’s right”. Do you not call out issues in your customer environments every day?
If you do not wish to stir the pot with the boss in fear of retribution or punishment, maybe follow up with the boss in a few days with a simple question: who’s covering the shift while I’m on leave?
Failing that, can you ask the other people on the roster if they wanna swap or just do it? Perhaps offer a sweetener, like if theirs comes up over Xmas you’ll do it? Or if you let them take your shift altogether, they might actually enjoy the extra cash from another shift?
@bazzybtec: Dude, join the union - it does put an end to a lot of this sort of employer crap. Let THEM make the call to FWC.
@bazzybtec: OK, so all the advice provided is unhelpful - were you hoping for some kind of silver bullet?
If your employer doesn't follow the law and you are OK with that and want to keep working for them, I guess the best advice I can give you is not to plan any more holidays.
@larndis: wow some of these comments are toxic. the suggestions to go into the business beating my chest with demanding emails (and i have requested by email not demanded) are the way to shortlist my position for termination. especially when other people in the team buck up and just work the shift.
and yes if i didn't have debt and living expenses and had a massive savings buffer then it would be very easy for me to follow through with some of these suggestions, but if i cause a big stink and then lose my job be it directly or by the company looking for ways to get rid of me. I can start looking for work elsewhere but that causes issues with me having to take time away from work to attend interviews.
as for a union I am happy to join a union but i didn't think there where any unions involved in the IT space, I suspect thats why the field is so bad.
@bazzybtec: There are unions for IT, but they won’t help with existing issues.
especially when other people in the team buck up and just work the shift.
What’s the issue then? Have you even asked them? Surely they’ll just work the shift?
why the field is so bad
The field is so bad because people let things like this slide, and sweep it under the rugs.
I truly understand where you are coming from about being shortlisted for a redundancy, but you’ve received several subtle methods on how to address this properly.
@bazzybtec: I don't think people are trying to be toxic, but you seem determined to do whatever your employer asks of you no matter how illegal or unreasonable that is.
Of course that is your choice and you are the only one that can decide what is best for you, I just don't understand what responses you were hoping to get here?
Personally, in your position if my employer didn't respect my leave and I wanted to keep the job anyway, I wouldn't book any more holidays. As you have said it will cost you a lot and you won't be able to enjoy it. I would find that whole situation more stress than it's worth, which is not the point of annual leave.
In a previous job, I was on-call during a Christmas standdown (which was taken as annual leave).
I once had a similar situation. We pushed back on the basis that on-call days required us to be within a reasonable distance of our workstations and not inebriated, which really restricts what you can do (especially over xmas). We ultimately got the days off without needing to take leave, plus on-call allowances and call out fees. So wasn't a bad deal if you didn't have anything else on.
“Right to Disconnect” and “FWC”
Google it
I've been in on-call jobs before where I was expected to be "receptive" to calls and stay in the loop. Unbeknownst to me at the time it ended up turning into a sort of PTSD trigger everytime my phone got something because in general so few people call or SMS me!
I've had colleagues before who were on Teams meetings calls while on leave too. They were just needed that much. So effectively got coerced to make a deal to at least be available maybe get some leave compo, but in general I'm sure not what they would want to actually be doing.
Yes say all you want about crappy rules or planning or training but to me anyway it's a pretty common pressure, and ultimately you have to use your judgement on whether you reckon your job, or bonuses or whatever, are genuinely at risk.
In previous roles I have had oncall and when this came up we would post to our team members and see who could swap or even take over the oncall shift. If someone accepted then we would get our boss to update the roster.
If you're on-call, then you're not on leave. If your leave has been approved, speak to your boss and follow up in writing saying that they need to arrange an alternate resource for the period that you're on leave.
Step 1 - Contact everyone else in the on-call roster and ask if they can swap weeks, so they cover your upcoming on-call and you cover one of theirs. If someone agrees, perfect, get the on-call roster updated asap. If no-one agrees, move to step 2.
Step 2 - Send an e-mail to your manager and cc in your HR rep. Advise them that, as per the prior conversation over Teams on <insert date & time> you already had annual leave booked in when the on-call roster came out and you are not in a position to cover on-call whilst you are away on leave. Advise that you have spoken to each other person who could possibly cover your on-call and no-one has agreed to do so.
As such, advise that you require their assistance in getting the on-call period covered as you will not be in any position to cover it yourself. That you will be off grid and will be unable to remotely connect into the work environment. If your manager acknowledges and agrees, great, you're all set. If the manager says you need to cover, reply and politely advise that you cannot, reiterate that the leave has been booked and approved for over 6 months, and that you will be taking it. It's now on them to arrange cover. If the manager ignores it, send a follow up in a week to remind them that you are going on leave in a week and there is still no cover.
Step 3 - Go away on your leave, do not take your work laptop, do not take your work phone, and block any work numbers in your personal phone.
If you're on call you have to be compensated for it, it has to have been agreed on
On call is expensive as fk for businesses.
example IT mate, is rostered on call for weekends, every 2nd week
He gets at most 1-2 calls during those times. At times he's had to step away for an hour during an outing with us.
BUT he's paid 50% of his weekly wage, well over a grand for it
On call on leave would have to be some specially arrangement, the only time I've heard of it is high ranking managers/executive's actually do something
Just draw a line and stick to it. Sorry, I'll be on leave overseas as advised, without any internet access, so I am unable to participate in this roster.
The advice you're getting is to tell them to go jump and use existing laws to back it up.
There is not much other advice anyone can give you, is there?
If you're on leave then you should never be contacted at all. Therefore on-call is not possible while on leave.
The company can easily roster someone else on.
Perhaps it's just an oversight that they haven't done so, and once you point it out they'll just say 'oops' and put Colleague #2 on instead and all the fuss was over nothing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m2HyU2UYOc
Australian workers will soon gain the 'Right to Disconnect' | 7NEWS
7NEWS Australia
1.76M subscribers
75,885 views Aug 21, 2024 #7NEWS #BREAKINGNEWS
Australian workers will soon have the right to switch off from emails and phone calls outside work hours.
The new 'Right to Disconnect' law comes into effect on Monday.
Yeah, except under the Business Equipment Award about the right to disconnect, which possibly covers OP’s employment:
12A.3 An employer must not directly or indirectly prevent an employee from exercising their right to disconnect under the Act.
12A.4 Clause 12A.3 does not prevent an employer from requiring an employee to monitor, read or respond to contact, or attempted contact, from the employer outside of the employee’s working hours where:
(a) the employee is being paid the stand-by allowance under clause 20.5; and
(b) the employer’s contact is to notify the employee that they are required to attend or perform work or give other notice about the stand-by.
Goodness gracious. This is a case of nut up or shut up. You've booked in your leave WAY in advance, and your on-call got rostered over the top of it. I personally would have dealt with it immediately after the roster came out, but that's past. You need to, in the first instance, do the right thing and try to arrange with someone else to take over. Then if you can't get anyone else to volunteer, say, unequivocally, to whoever is in charge of on-call that you're on leave and that you will NOT BE ON CALL. Forget the law, this is common decency. If they shoot themselves in the foot and don't arrange for someone to take your place - do not answer the phone - it will come back to them to deal with. They are the ones that are going to look bad here.
In the case where you're in a completely toxic workplace where none of the above works out, and it's not some absolute unicorn job (which I doubt), quit and work somewhere less sh*t.
Maybe its just me but it seems you have already made your mind up.. your going to work, but complain the whole time.
So many have given you helpful advice, you obviously do not want to be confrontational with your boss so you will need to suck it up. I am not questioning your reasons but it seems to be a merry-go-round of i shouldn't have to, but i am going to.
Its been explained,
Law says you do not work
You have other employees who can do the work
You are not willing to confront your boss
You are going to be working.
Hopefully its a really quite period for your own sake, but if i was in your shoes i would be making a stand, as some point of your career you will need to learn how to communicate, deal with confrontation especially as roles get more senior.
Good luck with the trip, and fingers crossed there is no Sev1 calls
Had a boss who tried something like this once - wanting it for free, too. I simply "forgot" to take my work phone. Too easy.
Simple email to manager
Dear xxxxx
As you are aware I have annual leave booked for the period x - y, I appear to have been rostered as "on call" during this same period. As I will be on leave at this time I will be wholly unable to be on call, as per Australian workplace law.
cc to HR
Here is the union that I am in and I am in IT as well.
https://www.professionalsaustralia.org.au
Sorry to hear you have a sad workplace.
Usually what comes with on call is that you're not permitted to imbibe whilst on call however when on holidays such a restriction seems unreasonable.
So what exactly was the point of making this post and wasting every helpful person's time when you have already decided to do as your company instructed?
Literally 99% of replies have informed you that it's unreasonable and to do something about it, and all you are doing is making arguments against taking a stronger stance.
yes and I have taken that stance. I have sent the emails as suggested on here, I have done all I can. as i have also said the on call goes to my private phone and short of putting my phone into airplane mode I can't filter what calls come in and what don't. and there still is a need for my phone to be on in case of personal emergency contact. for example if the house sitter needs to contact me.
I can ignore the calls that come through however I don't see that going down well. I guess i report back with what happens.
Are u the president of any country?
The Trouble is that its based on the ticket priority and when a ticket priority 1 comes through that immediately and automatically comes through to the phone and generates an alert through a 3rd party app and if you acknowledge and the incident and then don't deal with the ticket behind it then it alerts every hour until the priority is dropped or the ticket closed out. and a number of these are generated from automated systems. example a customers remote desktop server reboots or has a disk reaches capacity that automatically triggers a p1 ticket for investigation.