I thought this is considered illegal. Seems like Australia is going backwards.
https://www.seek.com.au/job/76233184?tracking=SHR-WEB-Shared…
Only accepting applicants who identify as female or non binary.
I've reported this job ad to Seek on grounds of discrimination.
@El cheepo: So then it has very little to do with women not wanting those jobs, and everything to do with safety culture. I'm tired of this argument being made that only men do dangerous work when they are the architects of this work and show no interest in improving safety.
I'm tired of this argument being made that only men do dangerous work when they are the architects of this work
Are you saying if a woman was in charge, greed, corruption and dangerous work would no longer exist?
and show no interest in improving safety.
Everyone, myself included would like a safer work environment.
But i can only control what i do, not what others do and not what attitudes big corporations foster.
Im not trying to argue with you, I'm simply pointing out the problem is bigger than gender.
You have many valid points and i agree with many (not all) of your views.
@El cheepo: Not at all. I am saying that you don't get to create a system that specifically excludes one group over time and does not prioritise safety, then when the exclude group starts gaining access to other systems they have been excluded from, complain that they're not going into yours (not you personally).
Safer work environments either occur through tragedy and consequences or through strong leadership. Where are the leaders in these places? Why is it at all acceptable that mens lives are sacrificed for money? TLDR; unions are good.
Perhaps if men decided not to apply for these jobs until things changed, people might stop dying.
'Perhaps if women decided not to work the streets until it was safe, women might stop dying.'
Both of these comments ignore the reality that people need to work to survive and simply accepting work does not make you fully responsible for the injuries that occur.
Incorrect on that last point there, healthcare is trying to even it up, very difficult to recruit men. Male nurses are great.
It is not about equal opportunity any more but rather equal outcome which just disadvantages everyone except the undeserving.
I was at bank 10 years ago similar push.
They only promoted female employees, and where constantly pinching consultants to be FTE if they where female.
Lots of people put in to jobs they where unqualified for and lots of unhappy more experienced talented people under them feeling pissed off.
Wasn't a good environment. I missed out on a big bonus because of the bloody bank pinching all the female consultants our gender ratio plummeted, and it was a KPI. I'm still pissed about it now, they didn't even retain the bulk of the staff they pinched almost all have since moved on.
Send in a resume with a rainbow at the top as the header.
My works the same.
FDV sector, only Non-Men are allowed except for the Corporate team. Makes sense, completely legal, I 100% support it
As a male victim of FDV, there was absolutely 0 support for me available for me.
My partner literally used her car as a weapon, went on a rampage and threatened to kill people. No support for me besides police restraining her during the incident so I could pack bag and leave the house I rented.
Police didn't even press charges.
This is the Victorian government's attitude towards men. Welcome to the future.
https://youtu.be/Vvdz6-PTY1o?si=9SeQzXPuHCALOAr1
Is VIC fisheries on the complaint list too OP?
This one dissapointed me. Recruitment hardly ever open while I've waited Ive done two relevant degrees , get an email and oh damn not eligible based on being male.
I can understand why they are targeting Vietnamese, Chinese though.
You should look in SA, they struggle to fill roles for fisheries officers. There certainly isn't a need for a degree, some sort of experience in the field on a coxswains would help however.
Thanks for the suggestion. The degrees were never really to simply get in the door, however higher education certainly greases the wheels especially with promotions. Ive actually worked for a number of years on fishing charters etc. so I also have that side of things accounted for.
My issue was previously that I was ineligible for a number of years 7 from memory because I lost my license for a month.
Yes the ad should say chinese or Vietnamese speaking candidates instead of race. In saying that, have you seen the number of viets and chinese fishing on those piers? Probably to help protect wildlife and make sure people like this follow the rules lol:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-24/nsw-man-allegedly-tri…
I'm a very keen fisherman and I understand the need for Vietnamese speaking officers especially. But most of these guys only forgot english when they are questioned by someone lol.
All the fishing regs are printed in multiple languages and alot of the hotspots in Melbourne have signs in Vietnamese and other languages before you step on to the pier etc.
I enjoy imagining the outrage, hyperventilation, and public lynch mobbing that would ensue if a large corporate employer published an ad expressly prohibiting females from applying for a job.
I imagine this of course, because there is no actual way in hell this would ever be permitted.
I understand large corporations trying to slant their employee ratios so they can publicise how "balanced" they are, but the simple fact that remains is that hiring to quotas only accomplishes one thing. It WEAKENS the organisation, it doesn't strengthen it. You aren't hiring the best applicant for the job, you're forcefully restricting your hiring pool to whether they possess a vagina or a penis… or unknown, and this should not come into play.
Male dominated industries are chasing quotas… but funnily enough female dominated industries (education and health) have NEVER advertised for male only roles.
Some roles are more suited to a particular sex. Some roles are more appealing to a particular sex.
Why is this a bad thing?
OP, if you really want this job identify as NON-BINARY.
Research what it means, let them tick that box, and carry on in your new career getting promotions like never before.
Evidence that these sorts of hiring practices 'weaken' the organisation?
Umm… common sense?
If you have 10 applicants, and then automatically exclude 8 of them because they possess a penis, all you have left is 2 applicants.
If you are forced to hire one of these 2 applicants because they possess a vagina, then very clearly you aren't hiring the best person for the job.
If both those two applicants were indeed the best applicants, then there would be absolutely no need to exclude the other 8 now would there?
Your 'common sense' is not evidence. Any actual research?
The concept of 'common sense' isn't evidence based though. If those two slightly less qualified applicants have been systematically excluded from the profession because of their gender, there is no way they could ever gain the experience needed. These kind of policies aim to address that (however hamfisted they may sometimes be). People can be trained on the job. I think the goal right now is to get diversity of human at every level and then it can't be argued that sexism/racism etc factor into hiring anymore.
You've obviously never experienced discrimination if you think there's no way those two applicants would be passed over even if they were the best applicants. Maybe they wouldn't fit the culture because they just wouldn't understand the kind of jokes the team tells. Maybe she has the best qualifications and experience, but she couldn't hack it in this kind of job, or she might get pregnant, or she might end up being a ballbreaker, or she seems a bit uptight, or the men in the team won't respect her so it's best to hire a man, or she might distract the men from their work etc.
Have you really not heard comments like these? I have. Even OP demonstrates some of this thinking in his comments.
Oh mate that's been the last thousand years until about a 100 years ago…maybe even 50 years ago.
So because it was so bad the last 1000 years, its ok to be bad now in the opposite direction?
How about learning from past mistakes, not repeating them.
That is entirely the argument to be made. No one is shutting men out from any kind of system, they're just trying to welcome people who aren't men.
@MessyG: Umm… but they are "shutting men out"! Men are not allowed to apply, that is the very definition of shutting them out.
@UFO: What if they had 50 positions to fill so far this year, and 45 have been filled by men, and they want at least a few more women in the business because they or their policy believes variety in employees makes the business stronger. That is very likely the real situation, not that they are shutting out men, more that they are overwhelmed by men.
Education departments have exemptions to apply for Male teachers only. I only know of primary schools using it, but it's been around for ages.
With the way the world currently is and countries either considering or actually doing national service, i wonder if there will be outrage at the 50/50 call up of women vs men vs , lgbtq, non binaries ?
Frankly I think that nobody should be doing it.
Please, most of the people having a whinge about DEI would be the first to claim they have bone spurs.
You missed the point
Like Donald Trump right? Oh wait…
How about you explain how you're gonna get all those young men away from their game consoles without them having a complete crisis. And you would be surprised, the only non-binary person I know had a long military career. And there are plenty of women and lgbtq people that serve. Have you served?
Thanks for reminding us why we need a revolution to expel wokeism from our nation.
it's about time we violently rounded up all the people who spend time displaying empathy or concern for others
Why is it the people who fantasize about a coup assume they're going to be the ones holding the whip?
Great who are you going to murder first? Women? Schoolteachers?
The job is literally for a cleaner and all they want is women or immigrants to apply for it. Would have thought that was the thing that bothered most people.
Ultimately DEI hiring just makes a company less productive, less profitable, less skilled, less attractive to work for and less attractive to do business with. If BlueScope want to run themselves out of business, it's not my concern.
Cleaner paying 200k? Sign me up!
Did you just say that people who are not men are less productive, less profitable, and less skilled…?
Only you did.
"Ultimately DEI hiring just makes a company less productive, less profitable, less skilled"
You're just going to have to explain that statement to me then.
@MessyG: You won't get one. This user is a perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. It's interesting watching them come across extremely confidently incorrect and will vanish when challenged to back up their "facts"
@MessyG: Because companies end up hiring based on skin colour and what's between their legs rather than the best person for the job
@OzzyOzbourne: But it's not what they do at all, that's an argument people make because it's convenient for them. They're not hiring some random off the street, they still have to be qualified.
I think his saying if you only look at the half the pool of candidates you are not getting the best applicants. Exactly the same shit in Saudi Arabia where they have men only positions.
Wow this thread has given me a nice list of commenters to block. I just cannot wrap my head around how one can fall for so much confected outrage. Thanks OP!
Meh this is just a normal day on Ozb.
How do they verify non-binaries? In interview tell them you identify as that. Once hired tell them you identify as lazy.
I am waiting for someone to say lazy isn't real gender.
Queer +++ ultra because the bank approved a loan on my black bimmer!
Hey, I am what I feel and I'm not going to let facts get in the way of that.
No jv saying: permit issued, thread closed?
(just collecting negative votes being bored looking at socks and puppets)
I’ll identify however they want if the job is good.
I've reported this job ad to Seek on grounds of discrimination.
"Old man yells at cloud".
It is easy to go around the discrimination part, you just need to identify as a non-binary nuclear submarine and voila, you are eligible to apply!
Isn't it great?
Where's the quota/gender balance in bricklaying and oil rigging? BRING IT ON! Those are heavily male dominated sectors. Not good enough. Need more diversity there!
Oh wait… the feminist don't care about these sectors LOL.
/sarcasm
You forgot garbos, firefighters and soldiers.
Oh but they do. They're just unwilling to be put up with rampant bullying across all of those sectors that men just put up and shut up with.
And you dont think males get bullied in female majority workplaces?
They do…which is why they don't apply for female sector jobs, and why we need (and have to a degree) DEI policies in those spaces for men.
It should be illegal, if not then everyone needs to start identifying as whatever to fit the description if that's the game these people want to play.
You should want the best employee, not the best mental patient you can get to fill a quota. If anything it tells normal people what a shithole this would be to work in.
"Mental patient". Gotta love OzB.
Having recently discovered the block button, this thread is a goldmine of opportunities to brighten my Ozb future experience.
out of interest, if your the CEO of a company, don't you want the best employees? irrelevant of sex
The problem nowadays is that CEOs are hired. All they wanna do is make a quick buck & gtfo.
CEOs who have created their own companies from scratch wouldn't stand for any of this nonsense.
Yes! And if you have a workforce that is very heavily skewed to one gender, you recognise that you haven't always been hiring the best employees, and you take steps to correct that.
This is probably one of the reasons founder-led companies do so much better because they don't spend time on this when it's their own money. This sort of BS comes from companies where the CEO are hired like employees and hitting KPIs for ESG reasons.
Is this discrimination? No. Anyone can be a woman or nonbinary. Nobody is excluded.
Yay box ticking exercises.
A female i get, as it's a male dominated industry but "non-binary", so basically a bloke that says that they're that.
Australia is no longer an egalitarian country, it is another country to fall to poisonous American "liberal" identity politics. Instead of equality we have affirmative action, special privileges for certain groups. It's now impossible to fail if you belong to the female, aboriginal, Muslim or trans tribes; the more of them you belong to the better.
If you want to succeed in Australia, just say you are a Muslim indigenous disabled trans woman on your resume and the forms you submit to the government.
Remember the post about Aboriginal getting a housing loan from the government with a 0.5% interest rate if they met the minimal $2,5000 deposit. Indian immigrants don't get that, nor do 4th generation 'White' Australians.
Oh, I forget to mention one other privileged group, the Brahmin left. You can probably figure out who they are, the people Albo loves.
Lastly, nobody cares about gender imbalance in certain other jobs eg trades, construction, abattoir workers, sanitation workers, garbage disposal - all the hard, smelly and nasty jobs.
Just identify as non-binary.
What are they going to do, pull your pants down?
Problem solved.
This is 100% discrimination. I am all supportive for more diversity in male dominated industries like mining & metals, but when you have a blatant message like that it only serves to divide us more as a society. I think we have gone backwards, 'woke' feminism has completely infiltrated corporate governance and is turning this world backwards. Imagine if you had an job ad like this something like this in women dominated industries like healthcare and admin, the amount of bitching would be crazy.
I work in healthcare. We do job ads like this for men and we encourage it. I only see bitching in posts like these.
Plot twist, given this ad is for a male dominated industry seeking to recruit females/non-binary candidates.
Should we have the reverse of this as well?
i.e. Healthcare and Education advertise jobs to only accept male/non-binary candidates?
Well……more males in female dominated industries would certainly help close the wage gap, as long as you are only talking about up to median level roles. Or are you proposing those males get paid the same as they do in their male dominated industries. And do you know males in healthcare on average get paid around 24% more than the women, in education the men earn around $20K more. So these industries still need to target women for the senior positions like they are doing in this ad.
Teaching does for men though. It's not a plot twist, it's appropriate DEI policy. We need more male role models in education, very very badly. they are the best candidates for these positions but due to systemic factors have traditionally not accessed these jobs.
I wonder how often the reason men have not pursued roles in female dominated industries is because they can get hired in higher paying male dominated industries.
Can you imagine if teaching paid the same as lawyers? The demographic would change very suddenly…
FFS, these are the type of people I would not hire in my workplace who feels violated for this kind of ads.
:The final part of their ad
Together we can make a world of difference.
Oh yeah, because discrementatiing is making a difference in today's society.
It's a good thing. They are open about it so you won't be wasting your time.
Acknowledge you really don't want to work there. If the job ad is like that can you imagine what working in that org will be like? Places like that are in for a long miserable cancerous death.
You'll be surrounded by people that can only be hired due to special treatment. There won't be anyone there that can get a job on their own merit.
Absolute nightmare. Be grateful they advertise it, it's worse to get the job and discover it.
What prevents a male someone identifying as non-binary during the interview process then having a revelation 6 months in? Nothing I'd wager.
That critical thinking to game the system is not possible at single digit IQ levels.
Nothing , but I bet you will be the bosses special favorite for the obvious deception.
If a catholic school can say no to a gay teacher, then this is fair game.
Didn't see any keyboard warriors come out swinging on that issue.
I'm actually pretty against that practice - it's none of the employer's business what someone's orientation or lifestyle is, nor would it generally be "professional" to discuss those details at work. Personally I think it should be illegal to ask such irrelevant questions (I gather they're usually asked but "optional").
Following in the theme of the OP though, there should be DEI special measures to get underrepresented groups into those schools, such as gay teachers. If the taxpayer is funding or supporting something, there should be equal access for all IMO.
Where did that happen in 2024? That is against their religious beliefs which is written in the bible some 2000 years ago, therefore fair enough. This is completely different.
Good see there's different grades of discrimination and some are worse than others.
And we can use our moral compass to choose which ones we give a rats arse about.
You can go ahead and boycott bluescope.
And zero fs will be given far and wide.
I would like to " identify " as female/non-binary for this job. I might change my mind after I get the job though. That should be a kick on their b*lls.
@MessyG:
I do agree.
Its a mans world. Specifically a white mans world.
It’s absolutely wrong and im all for change.
The funny thing is, i do agree with the thinking that women tend to er on the side of caution. Every woman i have taught is always more careful than a male counterpart and takes less risks.
But i will not agree with hardlyworking because they are attributing or inferring that male deaths at work are largely because of this when it is not the case.
100%
In my field of work, usually because its hard and involves long hours and time away from home.
Im sure this plays its part too.
Ideally that would be great.
But there will always be someone wanting to make a dollar despite any risks.