Safe to assume it will be by default
KAMRUI AK2 Plus Mini PC, Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake N100, 16GB DDR4 RAM, 512GB SSD $229.99 Shipped @ KAMRUI via Amazon AU » All Comments
A friend bought this model and thinks it might be present. Google Chrome pre installed
under normal circumstances Google Chrome won't be preinstalled on a Windows PC (Google and Microsoft are competitors after all, they'd want you to use Edge). If it is installed, then there's malware preinstalled too that will scan your Chrome user profile folder to steal your passwords
Yeah that is pretty much the conclusion we reached. Total deletion of all partitions and clean OS install was the hopeful solution.
@RedHab: Yeah maybe… But still BIOS is going to be a product from KAMRUI/ACEMAGIC.
I guess if that BIOS is virus filled KAMRUI is dead as a company. Probably worth while.
@Budju: Yeah, hard to prove it's clean. There are tools to unpack the BIOS modules, which your can probably run through virustotal, but one can never be sure.
@RedHab: Yeah now you got me thinking I would want to reflash that BIOS lol. Hopefully now that the cat is out of the bag these PCs will be tested to the nines to find out where they have tried to dog us.
@Budju: This looks like a modern tool for pulling a BIOS image apart into various components:
https://github.com/pk4tech/BIOSUtilities-Bios-ExtractorIt's been 15 years since I did something like this, but provided it's not encrypted then it should be fine.
BTW: Those that wipe the disk, be sure to wipe all partitions, as the UEFI partition can contain loadable modules.
If I reinstall windows or ChomeOS?
Delete all partitions reinstall using clean image.
Ive heard people reinstalling Windows and it asks for a key as the original is not actually a real version, might buy this just so I can see
@BatmanAU: Yeah the original install is a phoney image made by criminals, at least on some micro PCs made by this company. The company made a statement saying they outsourced a contractor to make the images who they blame for including the spyware. For me I think I will pay the premium for Beelink or Trigkey if I buy one of these. I've had my eye on these PCs for a while.
@BatmanAU: Beelink is about $30-$40 more for the same hardware, but might be lacking the 2.5" SATA expansion capacity. I don't think you need to bin the PC, just wait and see how things develop now that people know about the spyware. Probably purely software.
@BatmanAU: If you login, it will add to your microsoft account, then if you re-image and boot and login it activates.
Never use any oem system, wipe the disk and install clean os is a basic thing to do when getting a new computer…
Do you have to use the oem system to find the windows product key first?
Yes, definitely do a clean install of windows. Mind has it
Reinstall the windows
yeah you are a very important target for them, be wary
Definitely.
Clean install always… then install FB and Google, then you'll be totally safe then.
They are spying on your bargains
Yes, it does. Don't buy it.
Any solid evidence? If not, this is pretty much a misleading + racist comment.
Do you comment US spyware on every Apple, Google, Amazon, Facebook, and Microsoft products?
Terms and Conditions, they tell you and you agree to it to use it. Hidden in software without your knowledge is different. American companies do get thrown under the bus when they are caught, US even gets the super rich American business men in front of tribunals, look to Mark Zuckerberg for an example. Not perfect, but better.
T&Cs updated weekly that no one reads? Collecting your data without consent is no difference. Selling them in large scale is even worse. They got caught for decades but the power of money. People already live with it. Not sure if the last senate hearing is to deal with the rise of Tik Tok since Tik Tok becomes the most popular among teens? When it comes to "a site for child sex trafficking" and "a child is sold for sex every 2 mins in US", it's not better?
@bcYield: You are ranting a bit and I don't fully understand you. If you don't read the T&C's, that is on you. I agree that collecting your data and selling it without consent is no different. Tik Tok is Chinese. Not sure where child sex trafficking is coming into it and sold for sex.
@FabMan: Most of what I'm saying are straight from the last senate hearing if you watch the full video except the Tik Tok part.
Tik Tok has CN version and US version. The data centre of the US version is specially built in US. They claims it runs by international investors and never been asked for any data from China. Tho, a senator said he didn't trust Tik Tok lol.
@bcYield: Are you still continuing this pointless sidetrack about FAANG spyware 10 hours after you acknowledged that these machines really do come loaded with literal spyware designed to send screencaps and capture cryto credentials?
Maybe you should spend this energy lobbying Amazon and Microsoft instead </s>
You're in a hole. Stop digging.
@rumblytangara: you mean google doesn't spy and report on every move you take. No difference than the 'legal' spying American companies do where you cannot opt out.
@subwoofer: Are you seriously saying that it's the same to rip passwords, as to track someone's metadata or browsing habits?
Both are unethical, but one is clearly illegal. And which one is going to result in your bank accounts being compromised?
Which is worse- that a big company knows that you're into furry porn, or that your finances get hacked. Admittedly, that might take a while to weigh up.
@rumblytangara: I think it's worse, you got israeli companies with help of the US selling spyware to rogue governments to spy on dissidents and assassinate them. Every Android and IPhone is compromised and a spy device. America with the help of US companies can spy on any individual they like. This is why China banned iphones for government employees
@subwoofer: You are not telling me anything that anyone in tech doesn't already know about. The NSO stuff was big news several years ago. It even made it into non-tech media sites.
There is no objective way to look at it to be honest. The facebook example, honestly, is hard to completely rule out there was zero political motivation behind it (wasn't the whole reason to start the enquiry had something to do with certain country trying to influence US election). Question is, if the election result were different, would that whole thing still get exposed? If not, if feels like politicians decide what we are allowed to know?
My biased view is that these Chinese "cost effective" mini PC makers don't take security seriously. They care more about cost. One article indicated Kamrui sub-contracted the creation of the Windows images of those mini PCs to someone else. Kamrui most likely picked the cheapest. That does open the door and increases the risk of someone dodgy trying to take advantage of the situation.
Security issues will only be dealt with by big companies. Anker did cave in to fix Eufy security mess. The only way for Kamrui to take security seriously is for a large enough group of people in the United States to make a big fuss about it.
Recently Acemagic ones were found with malware preinstalled
Any evidence? Yeah a lot, try some research.
Misleading? Try Googling it and do some reading before carrying on like a 3 year old.
Racist? They are made in China, with Chinese built software, so unfortunately trying to start up a racism bandwagon on a forum…..Not today junior, not today!A lot of evidence while you failed to provide a solid link or source yet for your claim.
Request a refund and ask Amazon to google it? Lol
Do you comment any "US spyware" ever? Tons of evidence in decades but I can't find any through your comment search.
Do you say disable people or people with disability? Just curious.
@bcYield: A lot of people are just jumping on the bandwagon, but cherry picking bits and pieces. We are being spied on constantly. Personalised ads just magically happen without some form of spying? It's not just the US. There is plenty of spying here too.
The all time low deals you posted on N95 mini PCs are real bargains (I was too slow and missed out). Anyway, I don't think Kamrui knowingly put in vulnerabilities, but as part of saving cost (e.g. on Windows), they might have unknowingly used a method that has something that's dodgy. For people who are really serious about security, they would know there is recently a new BIOS update for most PCs to patch LogoFAIL vulnerabilities. Did they update every single one of their PCs / laptops? I haven't even patched one PC for that vulnerability yet.
That said, it is still good to point out people should do a full wipe and install a proper / legit copy of Windows. Also, I don't know how frequent Kamrui releases new firmware. It's not an issue for N95 / N100 (seriously, at this price, have realistic expectation), but for more expensive mini PC, especially AMD CPU based, having prompt AGESA updates would be good.
For people who are really serious about security, they would know there is recently a new BIOS update for most PCs to patch LogoFAIL vulnerabilities. Did they update every single one of their PCs / laptops? I haven't even patched one PC for that vulnerability yet.
My reading on that vulnerability last year is that it could be mitigated simply by ensuring that the normal login account doesn't have admin rights.
Could be wrong, it was a while ago. (But my laptops are certainly patched, just as a matter of course- the manufacturer utility handles it.)
@bcYield: I don't need to, obviously by this thread, there is enough evidence out there that people know about.
Why would I comment about US spyware, never came across any. I did however buy a thumb drive which was potentially linked to this article, so I returned it to eBay, oh sorry to be racist but it mentions China, so please read with caution and strong feelings
https://au.pcmag.com/security/100572/china-linked-malware-sp…
I will answer your question with this question, do you say ladies and gentlemen in group meetings?
@BatmanAU: So, I will take it as a no that you never say US spyware but Chinese spyware. I don't believe you never come accross any. It's common sense as to assume US spies on everyone while China is new to the game in comparison.
Another question is you like to be spied by your own gov or a foreign gov.
https://www.reddit.com/r/browsers/s/txR7w32cj7Again, best practice to have a clean installation whether it's a Dell or a Lenovo as these all come with pre-installed spywares.
Most of the thread here is based on one YouTube video if you pay attention on their reference. Solid? Hard to tell.
@BatmanAU: While I do find Bii biased, to be honest, we all are.
About the article you posted, the malware got to the USB flash disk because that person shared the USB stick with someone else and that computer / laptop was infected. The malware from that computer altered the USB stick.
So that article is about the malware, not USB stick came pre-installed with malware. Quoting that article you posted.
Unfortunately, one of his colleagues had an infected computer, so his own USB drive unknowingly became infected as a result
I understand your point of view, but that article is not related to the USB stick you purchased (which had malware). Unless you put your USB stick into an infected computer also (but if so, then it seems weird to blame the USB stick maker). I don't think USB sticks are smart enough to only get infected by Chinese malware, but not malwares made by people from other countries.
The spyware packages used by US are far more potent and sophisticated. They tend to go straight into the phones or devices. US is number 1 in tech. They are far better at it and doesn't bother going for people they are not interested in.
About this PC's malware in Windows, it is basically the maker went cheap and paid some dodgy 3rd party for dirt cheap (most likely illegal copy of) Windows image. However, it's still their fault even if the hardware maker unknowingly caused it. Also, they probably don't care because that dodgy Windows is probably a free throw-in.
I prefer US spyware
can confirm my preivous one had spyware, not disclosing the country but hidden files text speaks for itself.
always has been around this price. been at this price for very long. doesn't update on 3c because of the voucher but the voucher is there always.
$229 for n100 is very good though.. if n95 I think that's fairly normal
Yeah, OP just should've marked the january deal on the same product as back in stock.
what do people use these for?
Plex
Emulation.
Decent web browser with ublock origin
so no one uses this as a main PC???
If you only use main pc for web browsing, emails and some word processing then sure
@jiminyjillikers: These are more powerful than my current laptop dual intel N3050 Celeron 1.6ghz (ozbargain special) according to comparisons i saw, so may be a cheap option if you get a moniter etc.
Mini home server
Kodi media player
Basic productivity
Can you play ROBLOX on it?
Yes
Awesome. Ordering one now.
Be aware it might have spyware pre-installed
@Crownanchor: As far as I know it's software based but google Acemagic virus this is the same company. Delete all partitions and create new one with safe OS install from your own image.
But don't expect a lot for more demanding games.
Someone needs to post up a link to the recent thread that identified the malware that comes on these machines.
Hang on a mo, here it is
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/830554
Courtesy of @scrimshaw
Geez, maybe they should be banned on ozb
I disagree. They should be posted with a caveat note to do a clean windows install.
https://www.microsoft.com/software-download/windows11
Just put this on a USB launch into bios delete the partitions and install a clean install of windowsIs that a free win11 version? Or need to pay?
@maverickjohn: so can still play around with it, ie. won't restrict you using it
but then getting a license key i'd have to pay for one, can't i just use a hack somewhere lol
actually i remember somewhere in this forum they said there was a simple hack to make it licensed - gosh now i have to find it lol
@BatmanAU: I should have posted to github -
A Windows and Office activator using HWID / Ohook / KMS38 / Online KMS activation methods, with a focus on open-source code and fewer antivirus detections.
@prankster: You can download Windows 10/111 installation USBs for free and install it, but you will need a license key to activate it.
Microsoft offers hardware manufacturers the option to license Windows for their computers and the manufacturer can save those keys into the UEFI/BIOS. Windows can read that key and activate itself with it.
Does anyone know if Kamrui licenses Windows from Microsoft for this or any of their models?@OZBargainer in SA: i thought you don't need one? you can use the computer without a licence just that you won't have the option to customise the computer, like desktop background and you'll have a "Activate Windows" watermark on the corner.
Nah, shouldn't trust any prebuilt. Always format and reinstall
secure wipe & install. Formatting doesn't delete data, ao it could easily be restored/resurrected
Has this been reported to Amazon or Microsoft and what are the responses? If it's true, will you get a refund?
I'm sure amazon cares very deeply about one of the millions of scams on their site.
What's microsoft going to even do, they have nothing to do with this?
Because it's using windows, if it's licensed, Microsoft should give a support to this?
If Amazon sells a product that involves cyber crime, should it be more serious than other million scams?
@bcYield: Why would Microsoft do anything if the license they are using for Windows is most likely not legit?
@bcYield: No? Because it isn't Microsoft's issue and it isn't their fault that someone decided to preinstall malware on a mini PC. What are they going to do? Make a blog post about it?
@ldd-mn: They can do better than that through their police (defender) system. At least, they can direct people to clean/re-install the system and later investigate.
What if the person replaces the key with a legitimate key they bought before, will Microsoft give a support?
@bcYield: If Microsoft licenses Windows to a hardware manufacturer, the latter is meant to provide support to the end customer.
Why are you asking me (some rando on the internet)- why not go and report this yourself and see where it goes?
Or perhaps it was a rhetorical question.
Have you thought that someone might have done it? and can share the answers.
Celeron?
What OSThat's the N95 not N100 version. Still a great price though
Edit: Sorry I stand corrected. I just saw the $149 price within the post content for the N100 version
$230 is OK, but I will wait for $180 or lower :-)
That's the extra spyware model
Would this be any good to run a somewhat large MySQL db (about 15 tables ranging from 50k to 120mill rows) and a discord bot?
Should be fine just look at your current usage and see if the same power apply here
Absolutely. Make sure you are running most of it in ram. There's plenty!
will these slice 3d files?
FYI, N100 is about the same power as the i5-6500 seen here in sub-$100 SFF and micro refurbs like Optiplex 7040, Elitedesk 800.
This is new and smaller
New? Thankyou for that insight. Though i'm not sure these no-name Chinese boxes will last longer than a used Optiplex, based on past experience (Beelink).
Smaller?
Amazon says 17.8 x 3.8 x 17.8 c , almost identical to the Micro / USFF PCs that are so popular here. .. Is that right? It looks thicker.This is 14cm, Optiplex are a lot bigger.
Here is one that is half the price, you can buy it:
https://www.catch.com.au/product/dell-optiplex-7040-sff-inte…
$95.I can't stick an Optiplex behind a monitor….
@congo: I'm looking at a mini optiplex right now. 18 x 18 x 4cm https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/817249
The one you linked is SFF, different form. Has room for disc drive, graphics card, 3.5" HDD etc.
The 6500 is a little faster, but uses 10x the power to get there (65W vs 6W). Idle power consumption will be closer between the two but the N100 should still win out.
I have personally found an i5 6400t/6500t built Lenovo or similar mff machines to be much better built than these. It's from my personal experience after returning 2 AK1s, one lasted only 2 days while the other will overheat and turn off.
Been running a Lenovo 6500t 24x7 for months now as a Plex centre, no issues whatsoever. Power consumption is also lower as tdp is 35 but idels at much lower.
Yep, agreed. Mine runs Proxmox and I never use the iGPU. If you need the iGPU though, the N100 might be a better option.
There's a significant difference between 6500 and 6500T. 6500 is a full blown desktop cpu with the cores going into Turbo more often, the 6500T is a thermally and wattage throttled CPU fitted with undersized cooling system.
damn this is a way better buy than that dell wyse piece of crap i got which has displayport outputs only.
Displayport can output to hdmi via a passive cable.
Yeah, i'm aware. The wyse doesn't work with the cable however. i've used the same cable successfully in the past for other setups, so it's a bit annoying.
Well that sucks haha
An active adaptor might do the trick
Oh that's bad.
I'm quite happy with the Wyse though. I have a monitor with DP that happily connects to the USB-C port on the Wyse. I like that it idles at 4W (with an external SSD attached, measured at wall socket), whereas N100 NUCs are often reported to be idle at about 10W whole system.You're using the wrong cable - you need an Active Display Port to HDMI. They're $10 from Amazon.
I used this adapter (Shintaro brand) brought from Umart for $9 and it worked fine on my Dell:
https://www.umart.com.au/product/shintaro-displayport-to-4k-…I don't think mine is the "active" version as those tend to be a lot more expensive and thicker/larger in size.
I bought the N95, 16G one a few weeks ago for $200.
Consums less than 20watts. It's alright for its price, not super fast.
I didn't play with it a lot yet. But I can see the cpu quickly goes to 100% when a few simple apps are open (e.g. browser 40%, windows update 30% and windows defender 30% - Yes windows sucks).
It has win11 pro plus a chrome browser preinstalled.
The enclosure feels cheap but maybe not that important. I opened the top and there's a sata cable there potentially for another ssd or hdd. Under it I saw one slot for ram which had the 16gb laptop ram in it.
It's rather silent, but you definitely could hear the fan in a quiet room. And also, even when turned off, I can hear the coil whine noise.You should reinstall Windows
What happens to the windows license? is it embedded in the bios or something?
If it's a genuine license, it will be linked to the motherboard. But I don't believe they are. If you reinstall and it's not activated automatically, I'd use massgrave's script on GitHub to HWID activate it.
For these low spec builds I always use a lite version of windows, either get it premade or do it yourself, it drastically reduces the number of background services, telemetries, interruptions.
If I want to properly use it one day, I will use linux anyway.
Does it support nvme or just ssd???
I have this as an arr* machine for Plex and a few other things, runs like butter on windows 11.
but yes, install fresh windows
Blackbeard approves this message, matey!
All this is just based of the same youtube video one link would be enough here
Got this for $250 a few weeks ago for my mum. Runs decently well to do the things she'll do (light web browsing, msn games and YouTube). Of course I did a clean install of Windows 11 before anything and deleted all partitions. Interestingly, mine didn't come with Chrome pre-installed but I did note that mine came with Win 11 Home and not Pro as advertised but too lazy to chase it up. Don't need the pro anyway for her.
Can I use this as a Pi replacement, was looking to buy pi5 8gb.
Basically I want to use
PiHole
VPN router
Maybe NAS driveOr shall I better get pi5
VPN router? If you ran linux like Debian or Ubuntu you would be fine.
Wireguard Server and Adguard Home instead (imho) but up to you…You can do those things on an earlier pi comfortably. Pi 4 is the first with usb3 so if speed for your Nas is a concern, that's worth it. And no way you need 8gb, 2gb is plenty (I run a pi4 with 2gb for a pihole, file server, Plex, squeezebox, home assistant, and a few other things, and it doesn't break a sweat)
Thanks Victor. I was also hoping to take it oversea and using it as a VPN router if needed along side pihole.
NAS is secondary and speed is not a concern
By the prices of what's out there, pi 4 seems to be the sweet spot. Unless you want to go for a model 3A or Zero W (depending if you need ethernet or not; I would recommend using Ethernet if you can). Routing and serving DNS to your local network don't use much computing power at all.
What about a GL.iNet router with Adguard Home running locally on the router?
You missed Raspberry Pi 5 Model B 4GB $68.23, 8GB $91.02 (OOS) + Delivery @ MyDeal I presume.
This has a more powerful CPU / GPU, and NVMe SSD doesn't need an add-on (Pi 5 needs an add-on board). At this price, it is decent value for money, but there were N95 deals which were dirt cheap before (I think one was even cheaper than Pi 5 8GB at discounted price).
Yeah I missed that. But going forward. I am bit confused if I should get one of these Intel based SFF Pc or Raspberry pi 5.
Friendly reminder that AdGuard Home is far superior to Pihole.
Does it support blocking access to porn sites? Also, I want to access GoogleAds.
I'm using PiHole and couldn't config it to do those two tasks.
ThanksFor adult sites, yes, they have a parental control feature that blocks them. As for Google Ads, you'd most likely need to unblock them manually (doubleclick.net, etc.)
Does it support blocking access to porn sites?
Maybe just use 1.1.1.3 for DNS?
@rumblytangara: I have been using 1.1.1.3 and 1.0.0.3 (secondary), but it seems sometimes pornhub could still come thru.
Seems a bold claim? Looks like it might be mildly better if you care about certain features out of the box vs customised.
And if you don't and want basic DNS blocking, they look about the same.
Call me old fashioned but also, one of them doesn't try to convince you it's better and also doesn't have commercial products.
Sorry, was really tired when I wrote that. I was supposed to say for my needs it is a lot better. Built in DoH and HTTPS support out of the box, better UI (in my opinion), install/uninstall is a lot easier, built in filtering for certain services, and it doesn't break after updates like PiHole would do for me frequently.
@ldd-mn: That list is true so you're not wrong. My comment also isn't great.
My main point was, if you don't want to give up fully open-source no incentive based software, AdGuard is not so significantly better than PiHole for me to justify it.
But yeah, it is better out of the box and it's also great that it allows more people to use DNS blocking, PiHole would be a hurdle for the majority.
@eagerfisherman: I do believe AdGuard Home is completely open source on GitHub though? https://github.com/AdguardTeam/AdGuardHome
I presume you could remove W11 and install Ghost Spectre on this to have a very lean, heart smart OS.
I am thinking of using this as a replacement to an android box that currently runs in my Sharpin virtual pinball box.
yes
Ghost + Spectre = 2x Haunting 👻👻
Just wondering can something like this host a game server such as Palworld?
No
Thanks!
Why not? According to Palworld server requirement it just needs quad core, 16GB RAM and fast SSD. This N100 unit might not be fast but should still meet the requirement?
Meets the requirements but will be slow…
I would upgrade the RAM and SSD, the CPU maybe bottleneck if you have other apps (like Chrome) running in the background.@Wonderfool: Depends on the number of players.
Palworld can be CPU intensive, a few concurrent players would be alright. More players, the 16GB RAM and CPU may bottleneck.
It will run it fine.
Update: figured i would back up my words. i'm using the kamrui with n95, i got for $100
Any players on that server or was it empty?
I'd be surprised if this could run a server without some negative impact ingame.There's a lot of crap going on with player characters, npc's, pathing, thousands of items and loot etc.
If it can, that's impressive.
How would this go as Plex and Nas server? Is there enough connectivity to attach a HDD bay setup?
The NAS would go directly to the router.
I recently set up a Plex and NAS server within Proxmox using the equivalent Beelink N100 PC. Apart from the pre-installed NVME, there is room for one additional SATA HDD/SSD. If you have multiple drives, you can either connect them via USB or mount the drives via a network share from another device.
Whats the total RAM this model supports, would love to make a mini server (for pfsense, jellyfin etc)
According to Intel ark,
Max Memory Size (dependent on memory type) 16 GB
It's single channel DDR4 from some of the videos I saw. However I've also read quite a few reports of 32GB DIMM working on N100 systems.
I can confirm that 48GB SODIMM works fine with N100 too. Overkill? 110%!
Dont need to do a clean install of windows. Just run Malwarebytes and Hitman.
Yea but you dont get it! Some guy said bios virus and youtuber said there was a virus
There is no malware removal tool that currently exists that will detect / remove everything. Malwarebytes themselves has a KB article detailing how some malware can go undetected and continue to persist even with active protection
https://www.malwarebytes.com/cybersecurity/basics/undetected…
As I've mentioned before, rather than waste your time doing malware scans and then continuing to worry about whether you are truly free from spyware, you'd be better off just re-installing your own OS the moment you receive your PC from Amazon and not even bother booting into the copy of Windows that they've preloaded for you.
That's why I suggested these two programs. I've been using the combination for years without issue. Not a single malware / spyware has gone undetected.
How do you know? If it's undetected, by definition you and your anti-virus did not know it was there.
@syousef: Because of experience. I check the processes running. My accounts haven't been compromised.
How do you know a PC reinstalled with windows doesn't get infected with undetectable malware at some stage? You don't. There's always a risk no matter what precautions you take.
Dont need to do a clean install of windows. Just run Malwarebytes and Hitman.
I've been using the combination for years without issue. Not a single malware / spyware has gone undetected.
Faaaa….
That's like saying "I run Windows Defender for years and haven't had a problem" which is something a lot of people could honestly say.
Running two random scanners is in no way more 'secure' than downloading the original install iso from Microsoft.
@rumblytangara: Exactly, its not more secure but neither is it less secure, so why waste time resinstalling the OS?
@djevoultion: But it is less secure, that's the whole point.
The reinstalled OS won't have malware.
But the installed OS with Hitman and Malwarebytes might still have malware.
@djevoultion: One poster (scrimshaw) has already been through one of these machines under discussion, and has identified the exact malware, how to get rid of it, how to test for it.
This poster is clearly more tech competent than you are- he's posted the steps quite clearly, versus you doing the handwaving "use random scanners is exactly as saffe!!1! sumthing sumthing uefi!!1!"
You have no idea WTF you are talking about, you're just pulling buzzwords and hoping that something sticks. Yes, firmware based malware exists- the best example was Lenovo Superfish (which I doubt you have ever heard of either), but it is very, very rare. It is unlikely to be inserted by lowest cost supply chain attacks in some random Chinese factory, where the OS image is much lower hanging fruit.
@rumblytangara: Yeah i think he is misleading the community with the above comments. it would actually be dangerous for anyone to follow his advice.
Do a Clean Windows Install, Try to clean bios if possible and then install whatever malware tools you want.@maverickjohn: The guy is some non-tech wannabe expert who is clearly from outside the industry, spraying terrible advice and then doubling down when being corrected.
Doesn't understand logic, doesn't understand tech, then pulls random buzzwords as supporting evidence. Is more interested in appearing 'right' than making things safer for other people.
The issue of BIOS based malware is vanishingly rare. The biggest footprint attack was probably Lenovo, because that was a manufacturer-sanctioned incident to try funnel ad money back to them.
Otherwise, I don't recall coming across IRL a single BIOS-based PC event in over a decade.
@rumblytangara: Agreed.
I also don't recall anything in recent times, i just dont think there is harm in doing the check/clean. particularly if something pops up on scans after a clean install.@rumblytangara: Rage much?
I stand by my comments - there's absolutely no need to reinstall the OS on these devices.
@djevoultion: Stand by them all you want. I think it's pretty clear to everyone who's reading this little digression what value should be placed on your comments.
I stand by my comments
WTF, we've all told you why they are wrong. Is there some reason you aren't listening ?
there's absolutely no need to reinstall the OS on these devices.
You absolutely need to reinstall the OS on these devices, for reasons that we have clearly listed above.
Why are you doubling-down here ?
That's no guarantee either sadly. Malware can persist in the BIOS/UEFI.
https://www.eset.com/au/uefi-rootkit-cyber-attack-discovered…
A reinstall of windows won't resolve any malware in the bios/eufi
@djevoultion: Nobody said it would resolve this.
What we did say, is a reinstall of Windows will resolve any malware in the Windows.
This has nothing to do with any possible BIOS/UEFI infection, which is an entirely different scenario.
Bought a similar mini PC recently, copied over the entire HDD with all the software and existing partitions to the new one.
Glad I saw this thread. I bought a beelink n100 version yesterday. Paid $299 so feel a bit silly but oh well. I didn't realise there were security issues so I'll definitely do a full wipe when it comes
Beelink are a reputable brand so you should be fine. Still worthwhile to do a clean reinstall if you're concerned though.
That's good to know, thanks. I'm actually going to put on a Linux OS and run a headless server so will be wiped anyway. Just need to figure out which OS to use. It will sit alongside my Synology NAS to do more of the processing work (jellyfin seems to struggle) but quite new to the world of Linux
You could run Proxmox and try different OS through VMs. It does however add an extra layer of complexity with hardware passthrough
@raiichiu: I've run DietPi on a raspi before and liked it so might try that out on the Beelink and maybe explore Proxmox later on when feeling brave. Running everything in docker anyway so its nice and simple.
This Amazon deal works out to be pretty good considering the AliExpress Firebat variant goes for US$128.02 (~A$198.76) with coupon 24AE08
The obvious advantage of Amazon being warranty and easy returns.
Some viruses can attach themselves to the UEFI and survive a reinstall of Windows.
what if I wipe it and go to a new OS like Linux Zorin OS 17 ?
I haven't read up enough to know if these UEFI viruses have mult-OS payloads. It's definitely a thought. But I wouldn't want to buy a machine with malware baked into BIOS/UEFI.
can it run steam games?
my2cnts… Why would you need two? Seems a bit greedy
Would love a mini PC with the AMD 780 IGPU for around $500. The dream
Well there's 680m device that got close
https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005006171843412.html?spm=a2g…
not as good as KamKuats who has wifi6.5 and Bluetooth 5.75
I ordered the N95 mini pc a few days ago. Received win 11 home edition instead of win 11 pro…sent it back
Did the virus scan but couldn't find anything. Ordered a Beelink mini PC today. Seems to be more reputable with decent customer support brand.
UEFI/BIOS malware is a thing, it'll run malware in every new windows install. Can I trust this company's UEFI?
Does anyone run Home Assistant on this or something similar? I currently use a Raspberry Pi 4, and was considering moving to a Pi 5 at some stage, but am thinking this might be a more powerful equivalent?
I made the same move (pi4 to n100 miniPC) and have not looked back. The boot up times are way faster and I can have more addons running
Thanks! I'll look closer into these n100 options then.
Agree with others that risk of malware / spyware is too great.
Yes you can wipe the partitions but what are you going to do about the BIOS?
Suggestions in this thread that unsophisticated users will resolve the BIOS issue are fanciful.
Remember; this company ships its computer products with malware / spyware by default. So, as a starting point, it would perhaps be unwise to trust any component or sub-component of the device.
Mini PCs from reputable brands seem to cost a lot more. I wonder whether stealing people’s information makes up the difference in price.
While it is important to note the included Windows most likely has malware, it is also worthwhile to know how it got there. The company got some 3rd party to create the Windows image for them and that 3rd party put the malware in there (willingly or unwillingly). It's unsafe to assume you will receive one built with Windows image provided by a different 3rd party.
I wouldn't jump to conclusion on BIOS malware on this mini PC just yet. My main gripe with the BIOS on these low cost mini PCs is lack of features and regular updates. The chipset maker (Intel) and the BIOS maker would normally provide sample BIOS code. It is then up to the hardware maker to customise it. These mini PCs generally have little to no customisation. To be honest, the big 4 in motherboards (Asus, Gigabyte, MSI and Asrock) have introduced BIOS to initiate Windows driver install (which can be disabled) with vulnerability found on Gigabyte's implementation in the past.
If you have a PC that's recent enough, you should have upgraded your BIOS at least once since last December.
It doesn’t matter how the spyware got there. The presence of the spyware provides a valuable piece of information, which is; this company cannot control the quality of its products.
Who is jumping to conclusions about the BIOS?
To reiterate; given the presence of the spyware, it would be unwise to trust any component or sub-component of the device (including the BIOS).
Therefore, unless credibly demonstrated otherwise, the BIOS is a problem in that it can’t be trusted either now or when updated in future.
Feel free to credibly demonstrate otherwise or to refer to such a demonstration.
Re-installed the OS, but had issues with the Realtek 8821CE Wireless driver. It would cause BSOD every time it tried to connect.
Eventually resolved by manually downloading the latest driver from Microsoft Update Catalog:
https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=8821c…Not sure why the driver wouldn't update to the later versions throuh normal Windows Update…
How is everyone reinstalling windows? Do you purchase your own new copy?
You can download Windows 11 from Microsoft Web site. Use the media creation tool (and you need an USB stick).
As for the license, if you have a Windows 7, 8, or 10 key, try that first. Otherwise, you generally have a few days to source a proper key (there are cheap, but legit keys available for sale). I don't have this Mini PC, but if Windows cannot install both Wifi and the LAN drivers (i.e. no network device installed properly) during the installation, you'll need to google on how to bypass that during installation then install the drivers later on.
Microsoft does still let you use Window 11 with a message on screen even if you don't have a proper license key. Some features won't be available though. You still get security updates.
apparently key is embedded in the BIOS and after you install it will auto activate
Is it out of stock or there is no coupon any more
yea I got last one Lol. They are available again but now for $250….
Chinese spyware included?